#horikoshi you better do the ending justice

[theloganator101]

The Great BNHA Review: The Finale

So in the end... where does this leave us?

A society that really hasn't changed that much, Izuku was alone once again because his hero friends are too busy, and it ends with Izuku being handed a suit to fight alongside them... Reinforcing the fact that Izuku couldn't be a hero on his own without someone handing him something to make him a hero.

What a lackluster and rather bleak ending when you think about it. Because they still have the ranking system so it's once again enticing heroes to compete in a popularity contest to be known, which is why Bakugou is doing poorly and Aizawa admitting that he didn't do shit to curve this behavior.

(Points at Aizawa) Teacher of the Year everyone 🙄

So with the story now completed, what I hope to eventually happen in a few years is for people to truly see the series for what it is. A poorly written story where the main character never grows, the worst anime character hogging all the attention away from things that should be important, and contains harmful messages for preteens-teens if we were to take this at face value.

So let me ask this: Was this story worth telling?

I'm only asking because since it's known that Hori just got tired and wanted to be done and over BNHA as soon as he could. Which I know WOULDN'T have happened if he just pulled a Yana Toboso and just put the manga on hold to truly figure out what he wants to do instead of working on it continuously with only a handful of one week breaks.

His story couldn't explore the themes it established, and what it DID covered, was handled poorly.

And if you want a piece of media that explores what BNHA tried to do, here're some of my recommendations .

The main character being the odd one out? The Owl House.

Family Issues? Gravity Falls.

Discussions on justice and the grey area of good and evil? Death Note.

Hell, Glitch Productions does a better job at developing the romances of their characters than this anime series did in it's entirety!

And trauma being handled in a tasteful manner?

But back to the topic!

The thing is why couldn't we explore these themes and topics that was promised to us? Was anyone REALLY asking for Endeavor to make amends with his family? Did anyone RELLY think that Endeavor's redemption was worth screwing over the Todoroki family members?

This series just wants to have it's cake and eat it too! We want to have cool fight scenes and root for the heroes to win, but we would also want to explore the world they live in and how it functions. And since considering the badly handled topics of the story and the characters themselves are as interesting as caricatures of the tropes they embody to where there's no depth or complexity.

Then you just have a story that GOES NOWHERE!

How much of Hero Society has really changed at the end? It only beckons for the same events that happened throughout the series to happen again! And the people who were horrible, I.E Bakugou and Endeavor, get they want without consequences! None of the major characters go through significant development so it makes it hard to see that they've grown at the end!

So overall, BNHA is an Anime Series that crashed and burned. Something that I hope more people will start to recognize and call it out for both the mistakes of the series and Kohei Horikoshi.

And with that, my career of criticizing BNHA has come to an end. Thank you all for liking my rants and posts, and I truly do hope you'll keep following me for whatever's in store.

So now that's done, I can finally move on to something actually good...

[nartml]

Now, I know I didn't witness Izuku go through all this shit to get slapped in the face with this typa treatment

[darkcircles4lyfe]

it's a story about hands (reprise)

Yeah, okay, today's the day.

I gave my blog that title for a reason, you know, and it has loomed over me for years because the hand motif is absolutely everywhere and you could go on about it forever.

Maybe that's something I'll never actually attempt to do, but this chapter, we reached a breaking point.

Before I continue, I need to give a big, big disclaimer: I do not have a physical disability, so I'm not able to speak about that from the standpoint of representation as a first-hand perspective. I have at least listened to enough disabled people to know that fictional characters who become amputees only to miraculously gain their limbs back is, um, a trope. Disabled people in general being "healed" is a conception we would really prefer to avoid here. Not to call people out, but I don't think we're giving enough space to acknowledge that.

I don’t feel comfortable making the judgement call about what should happen. I’m leaving that open. I also don't want to downplay people's emotional reactions. Honestly, I don't know if I can accurately define the line between acknowledging real pain vs. ableist pity. But I’d like to talk about the possibilities of what could happen. Other characters have definitely gotten permanent disabilities as a result of their hero work, or even just the side effects of their quirk. But, for better or worse, I don't think this case is really about representation. Not that Horikoshi won't do that justice. He might. What I'm saying is that's not his purpose for having Izuku lose his arms. It's meant to be symbolic, so we can explore what it means. The other thing I’m keeping in mind here is that Horikoshi is notorious for playing with our expectations, like, alllllll the time. I mean, just take a few chapters ago for a classic example. Eri appeared at the end, and we all assumed she was about to take some sort of action to save someone with her quirk. Then, immediately following, we were given an explanation for why that wouldn’t be happening. And now it’s clear he wanted to do that “fake out” not just as a silly cliffhanger prank, but specifically so we would know not to suspect that Eri could be the miraculous solution to Izuku’s loss of his arms. Rest assured, there is no easy way out of this.

The expectation at play in this particular instance is an old one. It’s very understated, but its subtext has burned so brightly, you’d be a fool not to notice it. It sits with anticipation like one half of a call and response. Man, I was so certain. Lots of people still are. I was really looking forward to printing the panel where it happened onto a t shirt and wearing it proudly. All the hand motifs in this story radiate thematically from a single moment, the one that started it all for Izuku.

It raises all kinds of questions about the act of saving, who needs saving, why, what does it mean, what are the dynamics of power, politics, honesty, exploitation, compassion, pity, disdain, sacrifice. Katsuki has dealt with many of these since he first rejected Izuku’s hand. While Izuku was the one who was convinced Katsuki would keep on rejecting him…

…Katsuki was the one who kept that moment in his mind all these years and eventually came to regret it.

Katsuki is the one yearning for that hand-hold, the one who has imbued it with so much more weight than it ever originally had. Izuku, in contrast, does not allow himself to dwell on what he wants. To illustrate this difference, we need to look at another piece of foreshadowing:

Ugh, do y'all remember when lots of folks were complaining about how there never seemed to be actual consequences for Izuku's destructive treatment of his own body? I don't blame them, I was concerned and confused about it too. There were several "fixes" along the way. Recovery Girl healed him, but left a physical reminder. Then he started training to fight with his legs… sometimes. Then he got support items. All of these were unsatisfying non-conclusions because they didn't present Izuku with a lasting enough impression to change in a meaningful way. They didn't address his core, his origin.

Of course, that all changed this chapter. Now it looks like our frustration was inflicted intentionally. With the current context in mind, all of these moments look more sinister, like this day was always gonna come because they kept putting bandaids on a deep emotional and psychological wound. The problem is pretty much spelled out for us here:

As Katsuki put it, he just doesn’t take himself into account, ya know? He doesn’t care what happens to him. And he lies about it, to keep others from worrying, to keep them safe. To keep them from returning the favor and putting themselves in harm’s way for his sake. His motivations are noble,

…but what about the little boy inside Izuku? Who saves him?

This is all about Izuku giving himself up to the point that he literally has no more to give. The thing is, I bet he saw this coming. He knew his limits and decided to keep going anyway, because his personal safety and wellbeing are not important. Now that way of thinking has come back to bite him because the fight isn’t over yet, and he’s already made his sacrifice. So now we know who will be more distraught over this. Not Izuku—Katsuki.

It’s not about Izuku becoming disabled, it’s about how Katsuki wanted to use the intertwining of their fingers to communicate that he would never let go. Never stop valuing him most. Never let himself make the mistake of rejecting him again. Never let Izuku be so reckless with his life. To say: “we are in this together.”…if only Katsuki believed he deserved to be able to say such things. To reach out his hand would have been the ultimate way to simply imply them and let Izuku be the one to decide. Then, to feel their hands clasped together would be more than either of them dared hope for, but so beautiful, so right. A moment they’ve waited their whole lives for.

Yeah. That’s what we were expecting. We’ve been so comfortable. Horikoshi gave us all the signs. He tempted and teased us over and over. BUT. You know he does this thing were he gives us a desirable, completely plausible and simple thing to look forward to, and then he snatches it away. And THEN he replaces it with something much better, something we were not expecting at all because it seemed too good to be true. That’s exactly what happened when Himiko snatched Izuku away, and we were robbed of the chance to see him and Katsuki fight together. In hindsight, though, I’m glad things went a different way because now there’s so much more depth and angst on display. Likewise, in the present moment, we may consider how, as one door closes, another opens.

As wonderfully meaningful as the hand-hold would have been, perhaps it is still too simple a resolution for Izuku, for his and Katsuki’s relationship. Tbh, it could have been done like 100 chapter ago. At this point, there’s so much more potential. There are a couple of ways it could go. If Izuku stays armless, Katsuki will be forced to use other methods to get his point across. He’ll have to do something else, or say what he means, or both. Yes, I’m talking about what you think I’m talking about. If I say it, I just might jinx it (lol), but I mean it. I’m being serious. Either way, if Izuku did get his arms back in the end, I’m sure that it wouldn’t be an easy fix. It would be hard-won against Izuku’s self-destructive mindset, and/or by Katsuki’s conviction. Again, I say this knowing it is not meant so much as a representation of disability, but as a representation of Izuku’s greatest character flaw taken to the extreme. I know this might sound harsh, like, hasn’t he been through enough? I get that, but… I’ve said it before and I say it again: Izuku is stubborn as hell.

I wish I had a resounding final note to end this on, but I kinda don’t. I’m not sure what’s best. Now we just have to wait and see what Horikoshi has in mind.

[rewrittenmha]

I'm gonna be completely real... I feel like BNHA should've been more about the LOV fighting to change a corrupt system instead of what we got.

They're way more interesting than the cardboard heroes and that they actually had a point in how things were and wanted to change that.

And that the ending would've been something similar to the ending in the DLC We All Fall Down from We Happy Few. Where now the people hate them, with time others will start to realize that they really did the right thing.

I like the idea of them meeting somewhere in the middle.

Because when you think about it, the heroes suffer a lot of the same things the villains do. Hawks and Nagant were exploited children raised to be assassins and used to do the HPSC's dirty work. Izuku, Shoji, and Monoma faced discrimination. Shoto was abused.

Someone, forgot the name, made a good point a few weeks back. That MHA is the only series that pits victims against each other instead of the abusers. And in a lot of ways, that's right. Because other series do that, but in a way that it's obvious and supposed to be something that's called out and amended.

A great example of this being The Hunger Games. The Districts are pit against each other to keep them separated and foster animosity so that they won't rise up against The Capitol. That's why some Districts are kept in poverty while others prosper. The only way to resolve this is to unify the Districts by making them realize that the true enemy here is the corrupt system.

I was waiting for the LOV to start to actually be the ones to teach Tomura this because let's be real, he's sheltered. What he knows about heroes was a bad experience one night and everything AFO told him. The other members actually lived through and faced corruption firsthand. Tomura didn't actually have a plan in the beginning; he wanted to destroy heroes but he didn't actually know why. Not until he formed the LOV. But the majority of the LOV's goals didn't align with Tomura's in the beginning, they aligned with Stain's.

Spinner, Dabi, and Toga even explicitly state that they were only joining the League because of its (fake) connection to Stain. Spinner because he wanted a world with justice and equality. Dabi because of his detestation for false heroes. Toga because she felt a kinship with Stain due to their quirks and wanted to find people like her after being outcast and shunned for so long.

And if we take these goals/motivations for what they are, they aren't bad at all. In fact, I would even say that they're reasonable. I barely counted Spinner as a villain until the Final War because he believed in true heroes and wanted equality for people like him, he even saved Izuku from Magne. Out of all of the LOV, he would have been the easiest to redeem.

(Yes I'm still mad that Horikoshi ruined him leave me alone)

The problem is, those goals were undermined by their actions later. They were either completely disregarded (Dabi), simplified (Toga), or contradicted (Spinner). Horikoshi basically said screw their established characters, they're one dimensional mustache twirlers with no substance. Every character who points out the flaws of society is demonized to justify the status quo.

And this is actually why I take issue with the whole every character having a villain thing. Because this shouldn't be a case of Hero vs Villain. We shouldn't be looking at the LOV like obstacles to defeat, or even to save. We should be listening to them. The goal here should have been to make a better world where what happened to them doesn't happen to anyone else.

My Hero Academia should have been a story of change, not war. And I think that's going to be the heart of this rewrite

[pikahlua]

I'm sorry but what exactly did you mean in your chapter 423 tags? "People read all sorts of feelings and such into these characters"? What characters are you referring to in what feelings? Thank you

All of them. A lot of people have instilled these characters with meaning and extrapolated their predictions for said characters based on those expectations. Which is fine, we all do that. I do that. The question is, are such people open to the idea that their readings may have been wrong? And will they still retain interest at that point?

This happened a lot with Izuku and Katsuki where so many people projected a victim-bully relationship on them in a manner that wasn't there. It COULD have been there if Horikoshi decided to go that way, but ultimately it didn't pan out.

It happened with Spinner and the heteromorph plotline where people wanted an X-men-like story.

A lot of people projected a certain societal punishment they wanted for Endeavor that to them would have been justice, but that assumes what Horikoshi is trying to do is portray social justice. It also ignores how in many ways Endeavor's story runs parallel to many of the villains'. I've had some similarly weird conversations with some villain stans who just couldn't seem to wrap their heads around the idea that, even justified, their beloved favorites committed unjust transgressions against others, even if those others were nameless and faceless and just as bad and incidental to the story. There's always a reason people do things, even bad things. Does that absolve them of the crimes they've done? And even unabsolved, does that mean they will ultimately face consequences for their actions?

It's about the narrative. Horikoshi is trying to tell a story. Sure, he can put his opinions and philosophies in here and there, but is that the primary goal of making this story? I doubt it. He has a story in his heart and he wants to tell it. Is Horikoshi trying to comment on what he thinks the fate of abuse victims should be with Tomura's alleged end? I have a hard time making that leap if only because sooooo many characters are abuse victims and they all had different treatments and different fates. A lot about Tomura's story changed with the twists that have come up in the story, and AFO's reveal about his involvement in Tomura's life since before his birth does have an effect on what sort of character he is. Tomura's goal was always destruction, particularly of anything that stemmed from "that house," and AFO's trump card reveals that Tomura was also a product of that house. That raises the question: did Tomura ever think of himself as part of that house? I think it's very possible, which means in some regard he wanted to destroy himself. That makes some part of his fate self-determined. I always had a hard time predicting what would happen with Tomura because he seemed like a character whose desires were only to destroy, not to live in the aftermath. He wanted to destroy so that OTHERS could live in the aftermath, but he didn't seem to have any vision for his own future. At least in the very end his own perception of himself changed for the better. He started to see himself as more human.

[idontusethisthinganyways]

about the one yoichi post lmao

first off I want to say that I believe yoichi should have been more developed and should have gotten more screentime, but at the end of the day we can't decide how much screentime/development he gets. So I'm basing this entire rant on what we do see from him. So here's my take on yoichi's heroism.

Yoichi was born with a strong sense of justice, though I don't think that the narrative insists that he's a brave hero - I moreso agree with the point that it was pushing that he had the right heroic philosophy. And I agree that intentions aren't everything. Yoichi's sense of justice is an innate trait of this quirk (quirks are linked with personality - something mha has shown countless of times). But yes just because it's a trait he was born with doesn't mean he is heroic - actions have to be taken, or at least raising awareness.

Yoichi doesn't address all of these things and yeah it would be better if he did more to prove that he had a strong sense of justice. But he also doesn't really have to talk about these things. There are many characters who bring those issues up - though it may be rushed (that will be for a different rant).

Personally I believe that talking about systematic injustice, racism, discrimination, the problems with hero society shouldn't be things yoichi comments about. Why? Because even if he said anything - he's a vestige now. What will he be able to do about any of these things? What will izuku do about these things? Surely if vestige yoichi talks to izuku about this it would be with the goal of getting him to do something about it? Right?

But even if he talked about all of this and brought it up - I don't think story wise that it would be a good idea for the main character who only faced discrimination for being quirkless to talk about and fix all of the other issues in the show.

Also, yoichi could have very well brought those things up while he was alive - if. He had a different life. I don't think that yoichi would have made a difference yapping about all of this in the vault he was locked in.

And tbf - some of the things you pointed out yoichi never experienced or saw because they weren't a part of society at that time. Does this mean they aren't issues and shouldn't be talked about? No. But someone who doesn't have this experience can not talk ot commentate about it. Just like how it is in real life.

Your second point is a little weird. Idk if you just got the quirks mixed up but yoichi was born with the transferance quirk. And this is significant. Yoichi and all for one have similar quirks. If yoichi didn't have transferance all for one wouldn't have had his quirk, why? Because quirks are genetic. Yoichi's quirk was underdeveloped but it most likely would have been the same as all for one's since they are twins. So no transference isn't just some random quirk horikoshi picked out. .

The quirk he got from all for one also isn't by chance or something random. All for one specifically picked stockpile because it was a quirk that wouldn't harm yoichi. I'm pretty sure all for one himself said that he picked it on purpose.

OFA getting passed down is also more significant than it just being passed down by luck. Yes it was a slim chance that yoichi would be found by kudo and bruce but dumbing down the transfer as happening by "dumb luck" is just wild to me.

OFA can NOT get transferred unless it's by consuming DNA, (and) the user wanting to give OFA, it can also be passed on by force, but mainly those two reasons.

Also yoichi doesn't have to mention that his brother was a killer cause it's fucking obvious???? Also did you forget that yoichi was abused by his brother - but he was still his only family. The person with a strong sense of justice wouldn't idk kill his only family member or something? Idk what you wanted him to do exactly. He was also a child, a frail and weak one so even if he did try to do something physical it would fail. This entire point seems very victim blaming ngl.

The scene of the other users without yoichi going to kill AFO is significant. Yoichi isn't there again not because they could have been better off without him but because again. Even after everything yoichi wouldn't kill his only family. He had many regrets about his brother but it just seems contradictory If he was there to also kill him.

I'm not even gonna comment on your last point.

Uhh idk just wanted to share my opinions (also english isn't my first language so I kinda don't know if this even makes sense. Kay erm yep)

[bibibbon]

Do you think bnha treats the male victims of abuse narritavely worse than the female victims? (sorry if this sounds like I'm pitting them against each other or invalidating the female abuse victims in the story)

I've been reading your metas on how Horikoshi mistreats Deku in the narrative by sweeping Bakugo's bullying under the rug and meta posts by other fans dissatisfied with the way Dabi and the Todofam abuse as a whole was handled and I started recalling discussions on twitter how Denji from Chainsaw Man is a male victim of abuse, whose abuse is taken seriously by the manga and the mangaka, but not by most fans.

No absolutely not. I think MHA treats both of it's male and female abuse victims horribly. I have never viewed it to be something about gender it's just that horikoshi doesn't know how to handle abuse victims character whether thd abuser be a character he likes or hates.

Now I guess I can kind of see where this idea is coming from because the series itself shows us more abused male victims than female ones so there's definitely something there but even the female victims like toga, Rei himura or Eri aren't treated any better.

I remember getting ask that literally made me have a morbid realisation and it stated that Dabi ended up just like how Rei was in the beginning of the series. Also Rei never actually gets to escape her abuser either. She is still stuck as enjis caretaker and that's honestly tragic.

Toga's abuse is actually given the attention it deserves so she is probably the only character whose done a bit of justice in that area.

Eri still ends up getting hurt and used whether she is with the heroes or overhaul. The girl literally mutilated herself to make herself useful for her quirk to be used and you get the jist of it. This isn't a good look at all especially if you look at her history.

Now there are a lot male victims who have been abused like izuku, Dabi, shoto, hawks etc. Now these characters have much more screentime than the female characters but never actually get that part of their character focus on or they don't even bring it up so this just ends up making their characters feel so one dimensional and makes them badly written.

I honestly recommend you read @sapphic-agent post on bakugo and izukus relationship or her other posts about bakugo in general which are great in my opinion.

When it comes to chainsaw man fujimoto consistently recognises the abuse that denji goes through and (even though I haven't read csm) makes it clear that this isn't normal. It's usually the male audience that end up brushing denjis abuse or trauma to the side for example I have seen multiple posts talking about how what himeno did to denji wasnt a big deal or how makima never groomed denji.

Denji's character somewhat reminds me of hector from castlevania and how some fans would say that Lenore and Camilla did nothing wrong or that they never exploited/abused him.

[thyandrawrites]

man. what was even the point of all the parallels the villains (esp. shigaraki, dabi and toga) to the heroes just to have them all die. what's the point. I'm glad i dropped bnha when i did, that's so damn frustrating. they should have been saved. the set up could have resulted in such a good pay off, just for them to throw that all away.

Hi! Sorry for the late reply. I spent most of last night working on my fix-it todofam fic, haha

Anyway, I've been wondering about the same thing. Despite everything, I don't think this is the ending Horikoshi originally had in mind. He has many flaws as a writer, but I do believe him to be a strongly compassionate person. The main problem with bnha imo is that he always seems to struggle to put his foot down and see through his choices all the way. Enji's arc in particular is full of this type of problem. One moment he's depicted as an unredeemable, unchanging monster, and two chapters later he's someone whose journey to self-betterment we're supposed to cheer for—a misguided guy who is trying his best and still failing. You get what I mean?

If it's true that the theme of DV is dear to Horikoshi (and I think it is, from how intimately he writes its intricacies), then I can understand that duality, at least. The fact that he can't quite make up his mind on who he wants to humanize more. But it's still disappointing. It feels insincere, the way he's wrapping up this story by pretending this is where he was always meant to go. For all of his indecision, at the very least he's never denied the Leagues' humanity, not until this very abrupt, tonal-shift ridden ending. And a part of me wonders if it's just Horikoshi's way to cater to the part of the fandom that's always loudest, the one that's been arguing for bloody 'justice' all along. If he's unable to handle that criticism on a work he holds so dear. And yet, by responding to it, by changing tracks on his own set up, he still managed to invalidate everything the story ever said about compassion, and that's the worst part.

[bigleoenergy]

Obviously this isn’t the last chapter of my hero but even so I think the ending of this final battle was done very shallow anyways. Like happy for bakudeku people fr I’m happy they got their destiel moment but I sincerely feel like horikoshi said whatever to the actual story he was writing in favor of pleasing the izuku and bakugo fans which are the majority of the fandom. Because besides them literally every other character has just been side lined into an “okay? That’s it I guess??? “ ending. I’m so serious if you step outside of Bakugo and Izukus storyline not a single other character has had any proper wrap up for this war. Over half of these characters aren’t even acknowledged despite being set up for a more impactful story it’s crazy.

And I’m sorry but genuinely what is the point of anything right now if Touya, Himiko, and Tomura are dead. I literally don’t care if one of them did actually survive and we see that in the next chapter, we should see them alive now….getting help…being acknowledged. What was the point of emphasizing to your viewers how fucked and unfair hero society is and how so many people suffer and become villains because of never getting help if the three characters who represent the unfairness just die??? All of them??? Like okay… hope that their deaths impact the hero students so hopefully when they grow up they….feel more inclined to be sympathetic to future villains, instead of actually writing how current society should’ve acknowledged our marginalized characters and through enough help these people could be rehabilitated into a better society. Like the point of emphasizing this entire time how this new generation of hero’s, Izuku especially, are better than the hero’s before them and are going to right past wrongs should be shown in the characters actually doing that… not just hoping they will. Like because these characters are dead there can’t possibly be any justice brought. If they are all truly dead how can we see hero society face their mistakes and work to fix them because nobody else in this universe if going to care about the deaths of these villains besides Izuku, Ochako, and Shoto who knew them personally. It truly feels like he backed out of writing the harder story in favor of just pleasing the majority of fans there’s no other way to spin it.

Also….the way izuku didn’t even reach his goal like bro failed….and not poetically like you can spin it as “he’s just a teenager!!! He can’t be expected to actually succeed at everything!!!” We know. We’ve seen him fail plenty before. Showing us this in the final battle is unsatisfactory. “It’s realistic to show that you can’t save everyone! Not even the good guys can meet their goals it wouldn’t be realistic .” First of all this is a fantasy story. This is a fictional story written by someone to share a message to his audience. And he failed at showing the message he had built up since the start. Like there’s plenty of times you can show me how the good guys don’t win every battle and I love it but trying to say this at the price of your characters who represent abuse and mistreatment is bad writing and it’s lazy. You can not spin it any other way.

I’m just spur of the moment rambling so if anything I say is incoherent sorry I just genuinely expected so much better.

[midnight---express]

A look back at the family in ashes.

MHA has the distinct issue with the fact it's one guy writing it with a few editors chipping in, I think a lot of Manga and Anime could avoid some of their issues with just not expanding and using concepts.

Like there is so much in MHA that could have more done with it, there are more characters then there is time, there are 20 Students in the class, but I don't think we even know the reason they wanted to become heroes, what are the motivations for half of them?

Heroism has become this sort of sport in a way, competitive and there are so many of them, they have a ranking system, from memory, No Other Series Has a Ranking System For Heroes, because they don't need them, all other series have your Listers, A, B, C, D, there is no numerical title, and what the fuck does it mean to be No.1.

See that's what I want to see, why the fuck does being No.1 matter? And who better to ask that question in verse by Shoto, a victim of this sport, him and his brothers breed like Pokémon for their fathers selfish ambition to a title that in the long terms is really meaningless, a target really, what is being No.1 if anything but a status symbol, a don't fuck with me sign, the get out of jail free card. Like seriously did anyone ever explain what the fuck being number one even meant?

Why the fuck do Katsuki and Izuku even want that title, they just want it to be the best?

What I would have loved to see but I am so disappointed that we didn't get was MHA's version of Young Justice's Disordered, a final reflection and dissection's of the characters, the Todoroki's are their worlds version of the Wayne family.

Show me why Shoto is the better version of Endeavour, not just in power but who he is as a person, someone better, he wouldn't want anyone to endeavor what he and his family went through, he is MHA's Dick Grayson so desperate to become nothing like his father, taking the best parts of him making himself better, stable not one to create his own legacy through a child. He doesn't want another him, another Natsou, Fuyumi or Touya, he doesn't want another Endeavour as that name isn't a symbol of Enji's desire to become No.1 to Endeavor through everything that life throws, but no.

Endeavor isn't his title, it is badge of shame, it's not his. Endeavor is the title of the family, to hold out against him, Rei was endeavoring so much pain from seeing her family burn around her, eldest burning.

Fuyumi was holding out for the hope of a normal life, one she could enjoy and share with her family.

Natsou was holding out for the day he could leave to become his own person as far away from his family as he could.

Shoto Endeavored to even become himself he lost his childhood, but you can't lose something you never had.

And Touya, that poor boy so wide eyed and simply wanting his fathers love, his father to save him, but he burned his father frozen watching him, only to be saved by a demon who walked out of the flame.

This is MHA's Batfamily, and Touya has so much in common with Jason it hurts, they both just wanted their Father to save them, but they burned, Bruce tried to save Jason but he couldn't Enji froze, the two were brought back by demons, and had no qualms about murder, to kill to get that attention after they lost a portion of their lives.

But they never explore that, Horikoshi has had several chances to ask, how does it feel to die and be revived, to lose that time, but he never has.

If he had a few other writers to conifer with, you'd get something truly interesting, MHA needed more time in the oven, it has the hallmarks of a truly interesting story, but really didn't get the time to develop, so much was left unanswered, unwritten and unresolved, the status at the end of the series is the same, yeah it gets slightly better, but does it.

We still have people wanting to become heroes, we still have the rankings we still have people gunning for first, and what's that going to do?

Create another Todoroki family, and with Quirk Singularity that oversight of Hubris is going to start festering again, it may not be from the demon in the shadows, but rather the man in the mirror repeating the same mistakes that one man driven by the selfish desire for first made.

And this time they won't be facing Touya with an equal, but they might be facing Magneto with no answer.

[thequietmanno1]

Thelreads, MHA 292, Replies Part 1

1) “Anyway, let us get started with Chapter 292: Threads of hope

I see what you’re fucking doing Jeanist…”- He who wears the jeans of hope, gets to make the puns!

2) “I would joke about the parachutes but Horikoshi beat me to it with that extra page.”- Where Jeanist’s going, they don’t need parachutes, only cables of restraining justice!

3) “Not going to explain how you pulled that off huh. Alright that’s fair, I suppose we should take into consideration that “any kind of fiber” also includes the threads of fate and thus you can manipulate the universe.”- He does have little shockwave lines around his feet when bouncing up and down on that cable, indicating he had it stretched itself below him to act as a tightrope-trampoline to land on and neuter his momentum. So long as the cables landed first (easy with their weight) Jeanest could manipulate himself a safe landing point.

  4) “Yes Dabi, but considering you did just lie to the public in part of your speech, even though you couldn’t know you were lying, the rest of it will end up being doubted as well. Also the fact you are, you know, a villain, will probably not help much your case there.”- Yeah, but Dabi’s pissed off now that he’s accidently caught himself in a nationwide lie, which is why he falls back on supporting the narrative he knows to be true immediately, bringing up himself and Shoto. It’s also why he blasts Hado when burning himself free of Jeanist’s restraints – not because she’s a hero attacking his “friends”, but because she’s a young hero whose future he can snuff out with “his father’s flames” and he’s a petty enough bitch to get back at the heroes for humiliating him this way. 5) “Now that I think about it, holy fuck Jeanist managed to subdue Machia. Jesus Christ man.”- Underestimate his fashion at your peril!....Though, it also helps that Machia’s now achieved the orders he was given before, and thus is in a “down-time” between getting the next one from Tomura, which means he’s more vulnerable than when he’s putting in effort to achieve his orders. 6) “He doesn’t? Well I mean, during the training against Shigaraki he did took 2-hours naps between fights, but they mentioned that if he woke up before he was ready to fight for another two days, so I thought they were more as a way for Shigaraki to recharge than him.”- His stamina recharges really fast, but it is still necessary for him to have some downtime – if he breathes, he’s alive, and no living being can go forever at 100% effort, even one as simple-minded as Machia. 7) “Oh so killing all those heroes and powering through a few cities did tire him a bit, that’s interesting. So he can run out of stamina, it just takes a fuckton to actually get there.”- Machia was invincible as long as he was undertaking an order from one he considers his “master” and AFO’s instructions to him on training Shigaraki were apparently open-ended enough that he could just keep going to fulfil them day after day, as long as Tomura was still able to keep fighting. 8) “So, the same way as waking him up earlier will let him continue fighting, Shigaraki, or in this case, AfO, giving him an order will force him to be ready. That’s a serious glitch in the system someone should warn the devs to patch it.”- The downside of his immense drive to fulfil any orders he hears is that Machia immediately runs out of steam the second said orders re fulfilled, becoming vulnerable and “inert” until he receives his next one. He had practically unlimited energy fuelling his charges through the cities to reach Tomura, but without a follow-up command, all that fatigued and effort catches up with him until the next order “dopes him up”, so to speak. 9) “OH HERE COMES HADOU

You better wake up Shigaraki, or your head will fly a really long way before you can even think about what’s going on”- Spinner channelling immense gremlin energy by resorting to biting Shigaraki in order to wake him up – heck, that may have even done the trick. 10) “OH YOU FUCKING- GODDAMMIT DABI SHE BETTER BE OKAY OR I’M GOING TO FUCKING BEAT YOU

ALSO, NICE GOING THERE, DOING AS YOUR FATHER DID IS SERIOUSLY GOING TO SHOW HIM UP HUH”-Dabi will do anything if it means dragging his father’s name through the mud, especially attacking unrelated people to their feud in order to make himself, the prodigal son, look more despicable and unforgivable.   11) “ALSO, JESUS DID HE MELTED THE STEEL CABLES?

BUT HE DIDN’T MELTED HIS OWN CLOTHES??”- Burning so hot he warps the very boundaries of the panel borders, yet he does still have enough control over the fires to avoid killing himself…immediately that is. Heat at this level will damage him, but he’s a knife-edge between uncontrollably burning and steadily self-combusting that Dabi dances across in every battle, especially now he’s at this level of firepower. 12) “OH JESUS FUCK HE WOKE UP

AND HE GAVE AN ORDER

FUCK FUCK FUCK- THIS IS NOT GONNA BE GOOD, FOR ANYONE.

YOU GUYS FROM THE LEAGUE, YOU BETTER TAKE COVER AS WELL- ESPECIALLY YOU SPINNER, YOU’RE THE ONE IN MORE DANGER BEING THIS CLOSE TO HIM”- At this point, the league are just riding the chaos train, making sure they don’t slow down and let the heroes’ forces overwhelm them, no matter how many upsets and city-destroying events they have to cause to get there. 13) “Ah right, there’s still the high-ends to fight.

jesus fucking christ this day is getting worse and worse for Midoriya.”- These moments of the arc are just a non-stop escalation of dramatic chaos and stuff going wrong for the heroes more than they go right, such that you seriously start to doubt there’s any possibility of them being able to pull off a win at all. 14) “FUCK THEY GOT THE ORDERS FROM SHIGARAKI, THEY ARE ON THEIR WAY AS WELLOH LORD HAVE MERCY”- The villains are not only powerful,  they are smart, and they keep making the best choices for their side, which means screwing over the heroes’ own hopes at stopping this madness.

15) “Well, it’s both that they are finishing warming up and that Shigaraki was getting the hang of his powers, and probably giving subconscious orders to them, like this one to go his way.”- Even beat half to shit and with his mind fragmenting, there’s some part of Tomura that still giving orders…at least, I think it’s Tomura calling the shots in there…

16) “OH THANK GOD IT SEEMS SOMEONE SAVED HER, BUT FUCK ME THAT WAS WAY TOO CLOSE FOR COMFORT. FIRST WE LOST HADOU, I WOULDN’T BE ABLE TO HANDLE LOSING BURNING AS WELL”- And in our darkest hour, Lo, the man who will save a million adds one more life to the count! @thelreads

[haleigh-sloth]

¿How do you feel about the VH arc now that your way of thinking has changed?

It's still not my favorite arc.

That's my nice way of saying I still....just really don't like it. But my reasons are different now.

My old reasons were because I was wanting something the manga was never going to deliver on---looking for ways to dismantle their society in-manga, before the end. And at the time, what I was wanting was the kids to see it through the villains' eyes and go rogue. In a way, it was less about validating the villains' actions (because I didn't need that) but more about INvalidating the heroes.

Looking back, I feel like I just got caught up in the idea that the LOV wanted something better, wanted to make changes, and eventually the kids would agree!

But no, that's not what was ever, ever written. That's not how the villains are written, at all. So I have let those negative feelings toward the arc go. That was my own fault for misreading the characters and having unrealistic expectations. But what remains is my dislike for the pacing, the length, the characters involved, and how little was actually accomplished.

First, I still think it is WAY too many chapters. Way too many for what was accomplished.

The accomplishments:

Deku vs. Nagant, him realizing not everything is black and white, things are fucked up, and not everything on the surface is as it seems with heroes. Now, he says all of these things in chapter 314, but the follow up is still just "here is my hand full of hope". And look, I have no issues with the notion of a character bringing the light back into someone's eyes, I fucking LOVE that whole bit, (and I mean I very much expect the same thing from Izuku/Tomura), but that's not a great follow up to "society is gray and shit is fucked".

Izuku ditching All Might--AM realizing he fucked up by letting this sacrificial kid do things solo.

AFO getting into Izuku's head.

All of these things were fine to happen (some of them necessary!) but it took way too long for....three notable things? to happen, in almost 20 chapters. It really could have been condensed to like, barely even 10 tbh.

Second, it just didn't do Midoriya justice. It was very strange and OOC for him to have 0 reaction to a government sponsored hero committing MURDER behind the scenes, like, no reaction? Maybe the idea is that he's jaded af and isn't shocked anymore, but that wasn't SHOWN. So, I find that this really screwed his very solidly established characterization. Beyond that, I mean, he was supposed to come out of it with a different way of thinking, right? But he didn't. I mean, yes, teamwork is a good thing he needed to learn. He doesn't have to do everything on his own. But I mean other than that..? He already decided he wanted to save Tomura before that. And tbh idk if that was just Horikoshi being impatient and wanting to put the idea out there right then and there, or he just didn't think it through, idk. But it was done in a way where Izuku didn't have a whole lot of things to *realize* during his time solo. He already had the BIG epiphany, so what was left? If it was just to spiral due to taking everything so heavy on his own, I still believe that could have been done a lot quicker.

Third, the arc just really shows how wonky and inconsistent the world building is. Again, I have ditched the absolute NEED for their society to be dismantled on screen. I realize now that this is very much a character driven story. The villains are not written in any kind of way where a fix to society would do them any good in their current situations. They just aren't, their personal problems have taken the front seat. And I have no complaints there because the emotional/interpersonal aspects of the manga are the strongest points in it. But still.....the arc really does just showcase how wishy washy the author is being with his social reform messages.

Fourth, I just really didn't find a reason for there to be so much screen time given to Hawks, Endeavor, and Jeanist. I mean, Endeavor and Hawks had NO development at all that arc, and Jeanist is barely a character to begin with. I like Hawks a lot now actually, but I still feel this way about his presence in that arc! Endeavor, I'm much less averse to his arc than I was, but still....he did nothing in those chapters. So just why.

BUT! I'm not gonna complain when the episodes drop. I'm gonna watch them and really try to appreciate the arc. Maybe the anime will take creative liberties (show Tomura more pls mayhaps?) or maybe not and just seeing it animated and acted out will help. Who knows.

But this is the most I'll go on about the negative thoughts I have toward the arc, the last thing I wanna do is fucking complain constantly. Nope.

[villainsandvictimsalliance]

I want you all to understand that there's a mirror importance when it comes to the narrative relationship of class A and the League of Villains. One cannot exist without the other, because they are constantly balancing each other out. Every bit of progression towards a better future is something that came out of their interactions.

Why?

Because if the UA kids are redefining the concept of a hero, of what it means to be one, of what it implies, what it takes, how can you become one... Then the League of Villains is doing the same with the concept of being a villain. And you can't possible further one without the other, at least not in a satisfying way.

The problem with the hero society is something that we've been told time and time again: they became lazy, careless.

They started categorizing everything in the quickest and easiest way possible, disregarding the context and important differences that place a certain case in an actual spectrum, rather than in two extreme points. It became a society of heroes and villains, but what about the in-between? What about the ability of being both good and bad in different occasions, which doesn't make you completely good or evil?

The word "heroes" started to represent a group of people doing a certain job. It stopped being a title given out of admiration and honor and it became so common that the world was filled with "heroes". In a similar fashion, every criminal became a "villain", it doesn't matter the crime. From kids to accidents, people didn't care to understand the situation and were instead quickly to label individuals, forgetting they were persons after all and not mere constructions of the mind.

What Horikoshi is doing with bnha is telling you to be careful when labeling something and someone. Our society today is ready to cast judgment on everyone, even if they don't quiet understand what they're judging and disregarding the details, the vital differences between something and something else.

Not every person who committed a crime is evil and not every person who saved a life is good. Killing a criminal doesn't make you a hero, nor a villain, because it depends on the context.

What class A-1 is doing together with the League of Villains is seeing each other not as heroes and villains, but rather as people. And based on that, they are able to be more exercise their justice in a better way.

That's what the hero society was lacking: not people solving cases by throwing anyone at jail, not people doing damage after damage that is justify because they are saving lives, and not people ready to kill themselves on the job instead of understanding their lives also mattered.

The priority of a hero is saving people. That includes villains too, and that includes the fact that they have to very carefully judge if they can save a certain villain or not and how much of a villain they are.

As simple as it is:

The League of Villains pressured the hero society to change, so they are part of the reason why there are now better heroes. They did it through the wrong means, of course.

And the UA kids are returning the favor by inspiring the League of Villains to become better persons, to take back their humanity and goodness. They are doing it through the right means: not violence, but words.

If they cycle of violence is ending, it'll something both the "villains" and "heroes" achive together.

[hamliet]

I like the way the chapters are going but do you think bnha saying repeatedly that nobody can be forgiven means the LOV will end up in jail or something?

Doubt. Shouto's not saying that; he's making dinner plans.

I think this is again Horikoshi trying to please everyone such as the fans who are screaming HOW DARE FORGIVENESS BE A PART OF THE EQUATION BEFORE JUSTICE and by justice they mean retribution, which is arguably y'know not justice at all (seriously all the "we prefer justice" people might want to examine what they mean by justice).

Anyways, within the chapter itself Ochako brought this up and expressed that she felt she shouldn't have these kind feelings but she did, and Deku was instantly like... we can't forget that they're also children crying inside, and then we see Shouto full-out on the forgiveness train. Actually he’s already left the forgiveness station and moved on to full reconciliation. So. Yeah.

Listen I think Horikoshi is trying to acknowledge the reality that people do not have to forgive those who hurt them or people they love; however, at its core BNHA seems pretty pro-forgiveness for better or worse. See the Todoroki family plotline with Endeavor. 

[bibibbon]

I'd like to imagine a scenario for Geten after the war ends where he's visited by Rei in the jail, being told to his surprise that he and Rei are family. Maybe closer than they actually think (I like aunt Rei for Geten don't judge me).

So anyways, Rei being a compassionate person by nature probably would feel sympathy for Geten. After all he's very young (I hear some japanese fans even pointed he's referred as "shonen") and he doesn't seem to have any close blood relatives other than her.

Rei would take Geten under her wing after keep visiting him on a regular basis, something he appreciates even if he's a bit ashamed to admit it, considering he never had a mother like figure in his life.

If in some years Geten can leave the prison on a parole with the help of a good lawyer, I like to think Rei would became his legal tutor while he starts a new life as a normal civilian.

Partly because she feels empathy for his young relative (nephew) and **maybe** she internally sees Touya reflected on Geten, so Rei would promise to herself being there for this boy after failed to her own son.

At least one ex villain could be saved at the end.

Hi @nyc3 👋

Honestly this is a really good scenario!!

I feel like horiko has simply forgotten about the characters that he already put in prison like genten and compress.

Also this definitely adds to the himura family in general. Personally, when horikoshi revealed that genten was a himura it seemed like he did it and then forgot what he was gonna do with the fact that he just made genten related to Rei and partially related to the todorokis in general.

Also I do like the fact that you have genten serve his time in prison and then slowly with the help of Rei they both heal and get a better life.

This also gives justice to Rei as she isn't stuck being enjis caretaker but is actually finding more about her family and living her own life. This literally gives her character agency and autonomy something hori didn't do with her ending.

Also I feel like we were just robbed of Rei and genten as a duo so this definitely does them justice. However, it makes me question how genten would even fit in with the whole family if he met fuyumi, shoto and natsou. I do feel like they maybe a bit defensive since genten did attack natsou after all.

[thyandrawrites]

Love how the ant liberation guy gives a legit point to shoji about how he’s not giving any alternatives and he’s just yelling platitudes, and then KODA comes in and silences him with his freaking pigeons and is like “don’t criticize shoji he’s above critique 🥺🥺🥺🥺” and were supposed to cheer I guess

See, things like this are why I wish the kids had some character growth before entering this second war arc. Because with their current mindset, the points that the villains raise about the unfairness of their society that should prompt a conversation end up being insurmountable differences.

Like. It is a fact that their current society harms people on both sides. it doesn't matter that Shouji is a hero and Spinner a villain, cause both suffered from quirk prejudice. Just like how it doesn't matter that Shouto is a hero and Dabi a villain, because they both suffered child abuse. They have common ground. But Horikoshi never does anything with that, and instead keeps reducing it to a conflict between good and bad victims. Shouji and Shouto are "good" because they Plus Ultra'd out of their bad circumstances, found help, grew as people and started looking at the future with hope. Meanwhile, Spinner and Touya are "bad" because they persist in their path of violent rebellion and demands for justice.

All of them should have justice, but the way it's framed, the villains are the problem because they can't let things go like their hero counterparts, and somehow ignoring the issue is a good thing that makes everything better.

And what's frustrating about this is that it's not a flaw, per se, if the kids decide to cope with their trauma by forgiving and becoming part of a system that hurt them. That's their choice. The actual flaw is framing them like paragons of morality for what should be a personal choice. Like. They're free to deal with their abusers they way they most see fit, but they don't get to tell other victims that they cannot want justice. Yet that's what keeps happening. Over and over.

And what's so frustrating about this is that through all of this there are actual good points that should be discussed. Touya exposed how the blind faith in heroes as pillars of justice created a monster like Endvr, and what did heroes do? They blindly put faith in him again, hoping he would fix society for them. In much the same way, the problem of discrimination in the countryside needs addressing. People can't keep getting beaten and killed as we wait for the social climate to change. It's true enough that things can't shift overnight, and Shouji's right that they likely won't see the end of anti-mutant discrimination during their lifetimes, but that's also not an excuse to do nothing about it. There should be a middle ground somewhere.

But instead of reaching it, the argument gets shut off from the start with this tiresome "well you hurt my friends and I can't forgive you for that" attitude.

Guess what. The heroes killed Twice too. They literally hurt Toga's friend. And yet what did she do? She seeked out a hero kid for empathy and tried to have a dialogue with her. She tried to make Ochako understand that villains have people they care about too.

And what was the response? "Well you hurt people and I can't forgive you"

It's just. Ughhh. A pointless eye for an eye with no end in sight, and it's fairly telling that the people who are most willing to sit down and just talk here are the fucking villains because the heroes can't think with their own heads for five minutes