pikahlua

[pikahlua]

Did Izuku say, "Give him back TO ME"?

Someone in my fixed bkdk doujinshi server asked about this moment:

Chapter 81

"about that scene near the end of the training camp arc when bakugou is kidnapped, and people say that Izuku's 'give him back' was possessive speech in the original Japanese, like an implied 'give him back [to me]' ? I was wondering if someone could explain the speech that's used there a little more!"

My answer (copied from discord, edited for brevity and clarity)

there is one component of this topic that everyone completely ignores and that is the fact that Katsuki is literally in a marble when this conversation transpires

mr. compress is holding him in his fucking hand

Mr. Compress says that he "received/took into his possession" Katsuki. Like, I'm not gonna say morau (which he conjugates as moracchatta) is NEVER used for living things/human beings, but I can't?? really think of a time I've seen it? because unlike in English when one says receive and it can mean "they came into my home and I received them," Japanese uses other words for that.

and notice the little dots next to the word? He is emphasizing that he has TAKEN Katsuki, he is holding him in the palm of his hand. he is their hostage and literally CANNOT escape, he has no free will anymore.

so if anything, Mr. Compress objectifies Katsuki first

LITERALLY AND WITH HIS SPEECH.

there is a really important nuance to 返す that gets glossed over: it is not just for returning objects, nor for abstract ideas (paying someone back a favor uses this word), it is also used for restoring something to its original state.

Article examining the differences between 返す and 戻す (machine translated for easy viewing)

Like when something flipped over gets returned to its original state, you use 返す. So, one could see a layer to it that is Izuku saying "give him back [which includes turning him back to a human]"

Izuku later uses the term 取り返す when talking about retrieving Tokoyami and Katsuki. that's "take - return," two verbs together to mean "to get back again, regain, recover." notice it uses the same kanji, kaesu.

now I will admit there are elements of possessiveness to what Izuku says. Mr. Compress is not wrong

however people get real weird about this, to the point where I've seen people say Izuku is LITERALLY treating Katsuki as an OBJECT, not a PERSON, and that's just not true, and it belies a real lack of understanding about uchi and soto: in-group and out-group

Izuku and Katsuki are in-group with each other. They just are. It's a fact. Izuku has every right to see Katsuki as part of his circle, part of his inner world, and in fact!!

SO DO THE REST OF THE CLASS

BECAUSE HE'S A STUDENT, THEIR CLASSMATE

MR. COMPRESS IS AN INVADER

he is an OUTSIDER, with no connection to Katsuki

when he insults what Izuku says and suggests Izuku is denying Katsuki his personhood or freedom, he is trying to imply Izuku has no right to Katsuki, because the league's purpose is to MAKE HIM JOIN THEM.

he is saying, "you have no right to decide that YOU'RE Bakugou's in-group, and WE'RE not. He can decide for himself if he wants to join us."

here we have a literal villain, objectifying and kidnapping someone, and then trying to say "hey now buddy, he can decide FOR HIMSELF if he wants to join us!"

BUDDY YOU LITERALLY TOOK AWAY HIS FREE WILL LMAO

and Izuku is naturally extremely upset that they have done this to Katsuki and he flips out.

we don't need some loaded, very narrow interpretation that Izuku was objectifying Katsuki.

it is IN FACT enough that Izuku is LOSING HIS SHIT and CANNOT CALM DOWN.

does kaese have a component of ownership? yes. would Izuku have said this about a stranger he saw get kidnapped? no, probably not. he probably would have used a different word for a stranger. but that does not mean Izuku is treating Katsuki like an object, he is correctly treating Katsuki as his in-group.

also, I wanna point out, the original person [who claimed he is treating him as an object] insisted that Izuku should have used 帰せ [if he wasn’t being possessive]

and I'm sorry, no. 帰 has very specific implications of physical location and specifically, one's home

"SEND KACCHAN BACK HOME TO HIS PARENTS" what???

Izuku is emphasizing, free him, give him back to us, his in-group. you have taken him from his rightful place, which is WITH US.

does he mean himself, a little more than everyone else? yeah, he probably does. is this explicit? no, dude, chill.

I said that it has elements of possessiveness, and this is true, but it is silly to act like this innately objectifies something. I saw 取り返す used for "taking back customers" LMAO. as in, a rival business took them away and you win them back.

yes there is an element of possessiveness "they're MY customers! I want them back!" but it's not like DEHUMANIZING to the extent [some people are insisting it is].

if a native Japanese speaker made this kind of claim [the original poster of this claim was not as far as I know], I would still find it alarming because imagine saying, about English, "she said she was gonna get her man back -- GET is for THINGS, she doesn't see him as a PERSON"

that's bizarre to say???

can we derive some thematic or narrative implications from word choices? yes, certainly.

that does NOT mean we should pick THE MOST EXTREME interpretation possible.

[pikahlua]

Do you feel as though izuku and katsuki’s bond lessened as they grew older? I know that their relationship is best portrayed in battle or in high intense moments but they seem drifted apart as adults or I guess seem less entwined, it’s hard to see the dramatic care they had for each other (on izuku’s side mostly)

I'm very confused by this question. Everything in chapter 431 indicates that they're as close as ever in the sense of friendship at the very least. It's implied they see each other more often than they see anyone else in class and that they even call on each other to help out with work, such as Katsuki agreeing to guest lecture for Izuku's classes, and that's before the little extra epilogue where Izuku gets back onto the charts.

If you're just talking about the lack of intensity or drama in their interactions, well, first of all there wasn't really a dramatic context to fuel such a thing. But even then, they're young adults now. They're past the wild ride of puberty, and that does a lot to even a person out lol.

But your reference to this idea that Izuku had a dramatic sense of care in the first place is...telling. That's a very vague way of putting it. I've seen a lot of people who seem to think Izuku is unstably obsessed with Katsuki's well-being, which smacks of that whole "control your heart" fanon business. To me, Izuku has only ever been proportionally concerned about Katsuki. Of course he'd flip out when Katsuki was in dire straits. But the thing about Katsuki that riles him up under normal circumstances is not Katsuki's well-being but his heroism. In the same way that Katsuki fights to protect Izuku's dream, Izuku does the same to preserve Katsuki's. He punches Katsuki for choosing to sacrifice victory in their final exam, and then he turns around to punch All Might when Katsuki inspires him with his unwavering determination. He shouts at Compress for insinuating Katsuki hasn't somehow already chosen to be a hero. He loses his shit at Monoma for poking at Katsuki's weaknesses and insecurities. Hell, even when Katsuki gets stabbed by TomurAFO, the thing that actually causes Izuku to snap is when AFO derides Katsuki's heroic sacrifice as futile and pointless. As I put it just yesterday in conversation, the thing Izuku and Katsuki come to terms with over the course of their relationship in the story is not how badly they wanna protect each other but how much each trusts the other to have their back, how much each believes in the other's heroism. It's why Izuku is able to "control his heart" when Katsuki's heart stopped, because he realizes that to be a hero he has to believe in the best-possible outcome no matter how unlikely it may be. It's why his "powered-up form" in that moment resembles tears pouring from his eyes, because all he has in that moment is hope until Katsuki is resuscitated. And it's why those "tears" disperse when Katsuki finally stands up again, because Katsuki is the hero Izuku and the world need to save All Might. In that moment, they both trust each other to take care of what the other can't.

So when Katsuki drops a few ranks for mouthing off in public, it's no wonder to me that Aizawa brings it to Izuku's attention as if he expects Izuku to see Katsuki soon. He wants Izuku to address the issue with Katsuki and hold him accountable because Aizawa is just as much of a fanboy. Izuku has been assigned Katsuki's keeper in the same way Katsuki has been assigned Izuku's by making him that suit to continue his dream and telling him to actually care about shit that matters to him. They're not escaping each other any time soon, nor would they want to try lol.

[pikahlua]

Very small question. From what I know, "Zuku" or "Zu" don't make sense linguistically as nicknames for Izuku. My question is, is there any nickname, specifically as a shortening of his name, that would make sense in Japanese? Like "Izu"? Or even "Ku"? Or is his name itself just not nickname-able?

(this being said while ignoring honorifics as nickname-makers.)

I don't want to say that never happens, but the cases I've heard of for such things are when someone's name is like...at least four syllables. Like I've heard "Yoshi" as a nickname before, though it wasn't a nickname I encountered IN Japan. And consider Momo's nickname in canon is "Yaomomo," a combo of her given and family names. But unless I'm mistaken, I'm pretty sure "Izuku" is more like a theoretical name Horikoshi made up, and no one in real life has ever been named that before--or if they have it's an exceedingly rare name. So there isn't really a standard nickname for it in the first place. (Well, unless you include "Deku.")

That said, why would you ignore honorifics? If you did, you'd have to ignore "Kacchan"! ���

[pikahlua]

I can't believe there are still people talking about me.

Sigh okay fine.

Chapter 431 Izuku tells Ochako he wants to talk with her more, not stay with her. I guess some official translations decided to lean heavily into one reading by choosing "stay with her." Whatever. As I've stated many times, my translations are literal and literal ONLY.

How do I know he says he "wants to talk more"? It's like, the most basic Japanese you learn in year 1. This isn't complicated stuff.

Motto hanashitai.

Motto means "more." Hanashitai is the word hanasu, which means "to talk," conjugated to mean "I want to talk." And when I say it's not complicated, I mean Google has absolutely no issues translating it either, so anyone who says otherwise is perfectly capable of checking my work on this and chooses either to not do so or to ignore it.

Anyone who's casting doubt on this extremely uncomplicated translation is being gross, because anyone can read "I want to talk more" as romantic if they want to, but to change the meaning to make it sound MORE-UNQUESTIONABLY-ROMANTIC-I-SWEAR is just an attempt to influence how OTHERS read this moment, and this moment was made INTENTIONALLY vague for open-ended reading, as Horikoshi has made clear several times now.

And I scored a 100 in Japanese years 1, 2, and 3. Bite me.

[pikahlua]

That said I'd rather only translate official materials, particularly those with furigana. If there's already a sufficient translation out there, you'd probably be better served by just asking me about particular lines.

Did you see the interview for the art exhibit? Where he talked about if izuku and ochako in the epilogue were romantic? I saw a fan translation but I'd love to see your translation

.. Will you do that or are you done with translations on official mha stuff.

Haven't seen it so I can't tell you whether or not I can translate it. Friendly reminder that if anything is on Twitter I have not seen it.

[pikahlua]

Did you see the interview for the art exhibit? Where he talked about if izuku and ochako in the epilogue were romantic? I saw a fan translation but I'd love to see your translation

.. Will you do that or are you done with translations on official mha stuff.

Haven't seen it so I can't tell you whether or not I can translate it. Friendly reminder that if anything is on Twitter I have not seen it.

[pikahlua]

This might be a bit of a random question, but I’m trying to get back into reading, so I thought it’d be fun to give myself a little assignment. I want to look for more characters who are similar to Bakugou. To do that, I’d like to understand what the core aspects of his character are—like what defines him, and what the philosophy or message behind his character arc is, if that makes sense. Have a good day!

If only it were that simple. It's not like I can boil everything down into one sentence and genuinely claim I've got The One Answer. Sophisticated stories and characters are far more complex than that. All I can do is comment on aspects of these things in the context of whichever specific moments we're talking about. If I could reduce everything down to one message or philosophy, I wouldn't have a blog with so many posts let alone anything to talk about lol. Good luck though.

[pikahlua]

what do you think Bakugo feels about his old childhood friends? Do he and Izuku even have any idea what happened to Wings-Kid?

Of course they don't know what happened. Well, first of all, WE don't know what happened. There were some implications about what COULD have happened to the kid, but there are technically multiple possible explanations for what actually happened. For the sake of completeness, I'll say that it's totally possible Tsubasa just had his quirk stolen or copied and otherwise went along in his life just fine. Is that the most LIKELY thing that happened? Dunno. But if he really was turned into a noumu, note that the sort of noumu we're talking about were made from corpses, or at least we weren't shown an example of one necessarily made from a living person (there were a few ambiguous ones, I'll allow). For all we know, Tsubasa died in an unrelated accident and Garaki got hold of his body after the fact. Again, is that the most likely explanation? Dunno. I just point all this out because the fandom seems to have a particular narrative it circulates about all this, but technically there's space there to think about that situation in a lot of different ways, which could be useful for fanfic or whatever. And whatever actually did happen wasn't relevant enough for Horikoshi to actually address it, which is what makes me hesitate to say we do truly know what happened to the kid.

[pikahlua]

Don't mind me just gonna stare at those few scenes at the end in the new trailer where Izuku is conspicuously no longer crying

[pikahlua]

I'm reblogging this again if for no reason other than to laugh because I found those old messages of randos saying all this was just me coping and being biased and unreliable and shit. They really had me going there for a while. But the dodgeball haunts me to this day.

Horikoshi's reputation getting annihilated by fans so badly he actually goes and confirms my "it's not that bad and it's open-ended" posts was not in my bingo card

[pikahlua]

This is like the fourth time you've mentioned the combat boots on this blog and I just think that's really funny

As a fandom we don't talk about those combat boots nearly enough. I'm just filling in the blank space.

[pikahlua]

Your post about not being able to pick your favorite of Bakugou's outfits reminded me that his parents are from the fashion world (iirc). Bakugou feels like someone who has a very intentional presentation, when when it appears to be "typical teenage boy". Do you agree? Disagree? Think that's only true for certain things, like his hero uniform? And do you think there's any connection to his parents' careers, or is that a reach? I don't think we ever see his parents' aesthetics (unlike, say, Jiro's parents).

I think it's really funny as a fandom we've decided to not really think too hard about what it means for Katsuki's parents to work in fashion. Half the fandom assumes they must be like high-end designers when it's very possible his dad just designs street clothes or w/e they sell at the Gap. 😂

Anyways, to get to your point, yes Katsuki has a very intentional presentation, but I can't really tie it to his parents more than they just have the means to let him do what he wants. We get a bit of a sense of their taste from the home visits. They do have a nice home. And Horikoshi says Katsuki's dorm room is really stylish or something like that, which just makes it sound like Katsuki knows what it means to have good taste but often chooses cringe teenage boy shit on purpose. Either that or his parents arranged his room. But to be fair, he only drew some basic things about his costume. Some of the fine details can easily be blamed on the costume designers, and maybe that awakened something in Katsuki lol.

[pikahlua]

Hi Pika, what are your thoughts on endings? We have the end of the series chapter, the extra chapter and then the fanbook extra.

Do you think it's intended that we choose our own ending? That they're concurrent? That we're meant to continue with our own afterthoughts of the series?

Do you think there are consequences to having multiple endings? We get more and we get less closure, but most importantly for me I feel like the impact of each is so different!

My feelings are that I don't care what is or isn't intended. I'm gonna do what I want. I assume that's intended, but I don't care if it's not. The "endings" read as chronological and canonically compatible with each other to an extent, so I don't see why you couldn't see them as concurrent if you wanted to. Open endings in general do imply a request of the reader to imagine what happens next though. For me, depending on how I feel on a given day, I'll think about these endings in whatever way I choose. You can call that part of the fun of it all, I suppose.

[pikahlua]

whats your favorite outfit bakugou has worn in the manga?

How dare you

HOW DARE YOU MAKE ME CHOOSE?

HOW COULD I POSSIBLY CHOOSE BETWEEN HIS SKULL/PUNISHER T-SHIRT FORESHADOWING HIS "DEATH"

AND HIS LOUD FUCKING FANTASTIC COMBAT BOOTS HE WORE WITH HIS SPORTS UNIFORM

AND THE GUNS AND AMMO HE WEARS AS FASHION ACCESSORIES

AND HIS SLUTTY FANTASY CROP JACKET THAT EXISTS SOLELY TO KEEP HIS NIPPLES WARM

HOW COULD I POSSIBLY

[pikahlua]

Hey! I just wanted to thank you for being so level headed about everythiiing. After 431 many bkdk content creators I followed kept doomposting while I was in the corner like "guys c'mon. Canon is but a launchpad for creative works when it comes to shipping. You're giving one bad epilogue more weight than 430 chapters. YOU HAVE FREE WILL" but everyone was being so angsty or fighting each other that I decided to get away from the fandom. Reading through your blog has really cheered me up! And I think I will post the little mha joke comics I drew before everyone lost their minds so thank you! If it weren't for you I would've scrapped everything. I really enjoy reading your analysis :D. Have a good day!

Never delete things! What you have created is valuable and worthy of preservation! Fandom is a beloved space I shall always strive to maintain!!!! ❤️ Thank you

[pikahlua]

Hi pikahlua! I love your analysis more than anything! It helped me analyzed MHA better and appreciate Hori's writing. Bakugo is my favorite character and I really did feel he handled the character with care. I feel bad for Hori a bit since a lot of people aren't charitable with the fanbook. I get that there are some weird/bad decisions he did sometimes (mostly about character conclusions and chapter 431). Hori's not perfect like any other writer and he could've written a lot of the conclusions of several characters better. However, I can tell Hori does love the world he created and that's more than I could ask.

Thank you very much ❤️ Couldn't have said it better myself.

[pikahlua]

What was the backlash to ch 431 in Japan?( Sorry if I missed the post where you explained it.)

Yeah scroll down on my blog. I was talking about the collectible art stuff.