#he's just always doomed by the narrative one way or another

[thewertsearch]

[arachnidsGrip [AG] began trolling tentacleTherapist [TT] AG: John!!!!!!!! AG: You're heading into the 8lackout, so I won't 8e a8le to see you until you leave.]

We've seen these messages before, back when John was still searching for his father. By the time he read them, she was probably already dead.

In retrospect, her last line really stings.

AG: You can't fool me, John. I know you are not staying dead for long. [...] AG: You see, we are 8oth the 8est there is, and therefore we have special privileges when it comes to mortality.

God Tier resurrection seems pretty flashy, which is bad news for Vriska. If she was about to revive, her corpse would be visibly glowing - but it's completely inert. She's done.

I assume that the image on Scratch's clock is symbolic of John's resurrection, but I'm not sure why his symbol is halfway between Prospit and Derse. Is it because there's a 'good' and an 'evil' way for a God Tier to die?

Apparently so.

...this ticking is heavy. It really lends itself to the idea that John's heart is being weighed against a feather here.

AG: Nothing too glorious a8out the way you just died, I 8et. AG: Let me guess, even after all my lessons, you allowed yourself to get sucker sta88ed, right? Pretty lame! AG: I mean, lucky for you it was lame. I guess 8eing lame pays off when dying a hero's what gets you killed. AG: If our Hero of 8reath reached god tier, he would have 8een completely indestructi8le! Lol.

Yeah, but he'd also be completely ineffective. When you're a God Tier, you can either make a difference, or play it safe - but you can't do both, and I think that's by design. It's a really novel balancing mechanic, and I like it a lot.

AG: I don't know for sure, 8ut I'm 8etting that if I go to fight Jack, it will wipe out all the 8ad things I've done. AG: I think if I die it'll 8e a hero's death, so it ought to stick.

I'm not sure if that's how heroism works, Vriska - but this is an established pattern for you, isn't it? You're always looking for the right set of actions to 'cancel out' the pain you've caused.

In any case, I do think there's a good chance your doomed self died Heroically. She was fighting a corrupted Agent to avenge her fallen teammates, which is both noble and narratively climactic.

AG: One way or another, I think this will 8e my last 8ig challenge as a gamer. AG: As such, I would like to pass my dice on to you. AG: It is very important to me that they stay in good hands, John. That you continue their legacy, and that of my ancestor.

That's sweet of you, Vriska, but, uh...

I think John might want to know what that legacy actually was, before shouldering it for himself.

[south-sea]

the theme of neutral end AU hinges on this excerpt from a thing i wrote about aruna,

"he wonders if it would’ve been better to slowly starve and be remembered by the stars the husk of their comet drifted by, or if going in a flash to be scorned by countless planets was the kinder end"

and very simply, "a necessary end".

black doom takes back his son before gerald can run more experiments on him. he thinks he's doing the right thing. he wouldn't hurt shadow like gerald and the humans would. he can give him a real home, a family, a warmer life free of dna-melting tests and stress and— the grass is always greener on the other side, isn't it? at least until you look back and find that one side is watered with rain and the other with blood.

death will come when it will come. and it is, slowly, agonizingly slowly, but at least there was love. at least there was warmth. at least it was worth it. it was worth it. it was worth it.

wasn't it?

they were already suffering and starving and dying by the time he took shadow in. he was doomed to fail. every black arms timeline stemming from him is doomed to fail. he hopes someone remembers them with understanding or the least amount of pity. he hopes shadow forgives him. he hopes it was worth it

[iamespecter]

Ah yes, the one guy I like vs the five other femme fatales

I did the thing that I saw one other mutual do!!! honestly, it was VERY hard to pick for most of these (save for Caine and Glamrock Chica) because I ADORE a LOT of characters. And doing this honestly makes me realize just how much I gravitate towards characters that are doomed by the narrative or their scriptwriters one way or another

My current favorite is Caine because it's pretty much self-explanatory, he is my current blorbo. My scrunkly. My precious lil scrunkler guy

Chica is my comfort character. She literally raised me alongside Freddy Fazbear when I was going through one of the toughest moments of my life, living with my abusive dad (and yes the chicken and the bear are so married to me and me only)

Master Tigress save me you were taken from me by the fourth film and I will NEVER live that down

Where do I even start with Six from Little Nightmares. By god, this poor yellow raincoat wearing child of mine. I both love and hate just how hopeless her story is. People say that the ending of the first game ends with her escaping via a boat, but I really don't think so. I think she's stuck at the Maw because I keep saying it, THE BOAT DROPPING THE GUESTS LEFT. THERE IS NO "OTHER BOAT". IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. (before this becomes a ramble, I'm gonna stop it right there.)

I'm VERY guilty of liking Lucy Wilde from Despicable me because I hate the franchise (the first film was good), but by god, IS SHE THE FUNNIEST SHIT. To me, she literally carries the films she's in, she inspired one of my main OCs' humor and even appearance. I don't care about Gru, or the villains, or the girls, just give me more Lucy.

GLAMROCK CHICA MY BELOVED I AM GOING DOWN ON MY KNEES RN PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE MARRY ME I'M PUTTING ALL OF MY POINTS IN THE RIZZ STATS PLEASE JUST ONE CHANCE BABYGIRL OINE CHANCE GIVE ME ONE CHANCE (I am Glamrock Chica's #1 fan and I will always be angry at Scott for what he's doing to her and her variants)

sigh,,,, what I ever did to like such characters that I know will end up crushing my heart one way or another, I don't know but I do know that at the very least, I have the power to diverge from canon as an artist

[red-velvet-0w0]

life series curses

another thing I find so interesting about the life series is the idea that every character in the games are cursed in some way. I know there are the obvious ones, canary curse, black widow curse, etc, but I feel like the idea of the watchers locking them in the games with their own curses to be so interesting. It really adds to the feel that a) they are all extremely unique characters with their own things going on and b) they are all in their own way doomed by the narrative as I really like thinking about the fact that the life series is inherantly a tragedy.

as for what curses I think everybody has, the obvious/well known canonical ones are of course:

Jimmy - Canary curse: probably the most famous curse in the life series, Jimmy is cursed to always be the first to die

Grian - Black Widow curse: grian always ends up betraying his teamates or being the cause of their deaths (killed scar in TL, jimmy & mumbo in LL, Scar again in DL, Jimmy in LimL)

Mumbo - Miners curse: always is the next to die after the canary, within a minute of jimmys death.

Scott: Sacrifice Blessing - only one to not exactly be a curse, his teamates will always make it top 3 but he will sacrifice his lives to do so.

Skizzleman: Bad Angel - always tries to help his friends but has legendarily bad luck and loses a lot of lives

Tango: Ash Curse - will always die by himself in a pathetic and underwhelming way (I call it the ash curse because I like the idea of him not dying in a blaze of glory but instead burning out, leaving nothing but a small pile of ashes)

Joel: Insanity Curse/Red Fever - will always end the series by going insane and trying to kill everybody

And then there are the curses I dont think Ive heard many people talk about:

Scar: Villain curse - Scar is cursed to always become enemies with almost everybody, usualy being isolated in a small corner of the map by himself

Cleo: Retribution Curse - will be betrayed by a teamate leading to them swearing vengeance and lashing out in anger (BigB, Martyn)

Ren: Last Stand Curse - dies alone in his own home trying to defend it

Etho: Loyalty Curse - will make a teamate at the very begining and stick with them the whole way through, though in the end his loyalty to them will lead to his death

Martyn: Betrayal Curse - will always plan or attempt to kill his teamate

Bdubs: Wierdly enough also the Betrayal Curse. just the exact same curse Martyn has. I dont know what this means

BigB: Isolation Curse - will always end up living on his own or seperate from the rest of the server

Pearl: Duel Curse: always dies (or wins) in an orginazed duel or battle, usualy including or orginized by Scott

Gem: hasnt been in the series long enough to have a recognizable curse, though she does have the boogeyman curse from secret life.

Lizzie: Failed Avenger Curse: when turning red will try to take revenge on the people who she believed wronged her, but will fail misserably and die trying

[damian-lil-babybat]

DAMIAN WAYNE IS A GREEK TRAGEDY

When I say Damian al Ghul Wayne has almost all the ingredients of a classical Greek Tragedy, it is not an empty claim.

1. Tragic Hero: The hero facing his destiny with dignity. His virtuous character forms a bond with the audience, while his tragic flaw results in the audience’s fear for him, and his terrible punishment reveals a sense of pity.

Damian is the hero of his own story. In his mind, he was given a destiny, a standard to live up to. It came from his grandfather, as Hafid al Ghul, son of the Demon. It came from his mother, as her Alexander, with Talia deluding herself as Olympias. It came from his father, as the son of Batman.

He thought himself perfect on all those role, mighty ones they might be, heavy and overwhelming even, but he persevered in ways that should be impossible and ultimately achieved the pinnacle of a perfect heir for all of them.

2. Tragic Flaw: The human limitations of the hero or an error in judgement leading to the downfall. He attempts to escape from his destiny; however, he unknowingly runs toward it. His attempt leads him to his “damnation”.

But what he thought was perfection, was his downfall. For even if he was designed and raised to be perfect, those roles are fashioned by imperfect mortals. As the son of the Batman, he was all too much of a monster to even be treated as child, let alone a son. As the son of the Demon, he was too soft, kind, and all too human, to sit upon the al Ghul's immortal throne. As the great Alexander, he was deemed as a mere pawn, a victim of circumstance, and not a victor of his own fate.

He was set up for failure before his story even began.

3. Catastrophe: The horrible ending of the play: death, suicide, ruin etc. Upon the truth being revealed about Oedipus’ origin, Queen Jocasta commits suicide by hanging herself, Oedipus stabs his eyes with the pin on Jocasta’s dress and pleads to be exiled from the city.

And just like all tragedies, it ends up in death...so many deaths and sacrifices. Repeat and rinse, the cycle continues with each redeeming arc punctuated by his death or ruin.

And just like Sisyphus, one must imagine him to be happy. For how else could he endure these unending trials?

4. Central Belief of Destiny: The belief of the fact that the actions were preordained by the gods and the flaw was inevitable. Even though Oedipus attempts to flee from his preordained destiny, the belief in inevitable destiny becomes the reason for his destruction.

How else could he keep harking on to his destiny? Desperately clinging to it like a promise gold once he touched it like Midas' cursed hands? But no, everything he touches turns to dust, every height he scale would be pushed down reverting him back to his old bare bones of an unwanted worthless child from both side of his parents, even how much he tries to make things right. Every person or thing he treasured is another ammunition for plot purposes to make him more tragic than he already was.

Damian had tried to flee before, but fate always brings him back. Because Batman needs a Robin. But Bruce already has a Robin, doesn't he? Because Damian needs to be Robin? Just cause, who would he be then? When all those titles he earned has been discarded and thrashed in the light of Batman's justice?

And the only one title he could be proud of is always threatened to be taken away if he just as much cross an invisible line that keep on changing depending on whims of the doomed narrative.

5. The Chorus: Approximately twelve masked men, forming a specific group, make comments on the ongoing play by singing and dancing.

Due to its form of media, Damian has no twelve singing and dancing masked men. XD

BUT If I have a say on this, I'll give Damian his own set of bardic troupe narrating his life story, and maybe somehow DC writers would finally admit he was loved and wanted, and was never alone and actually have family, companions and friends along the way!

https://www.byarcadia.org/post/ancient-greek-tragedy-101-the-introduction

AND THAT IS WHY it makes more sense for writers to like and, or dare I say, even love Damian's character.

A lot of great fanfictioners in AO3 actually root for this little guy. So it's nice ✌️

[starry-bi-sky]

"Stillborn? No, still born" Danyal au -- VLAD MASTERS THE BITCH HIMSELF

*Points at Vlad* THIS MFER GOT SOME TEEFS TO HIM. !! Okay okay, Vlad Masters in the stillborn au is different compared to most of my other aus in the fact that I am far more heavily leaning into his original ambitions of wanting a family and being desperately lonely. Because you know what wanting a family implies? Wanting to be a parent.

Fucked up father figure that could've been Vlad. Complicated love-hate relationship between the only two halfas in existence.

Danny hates Vlad, but he hates even more that he's genuinely considered his offers of mentorship. Vlad is the only halfa around, and they both have fire cores. Danny has these powers he doesn't understand, can barely comprehend some days, and can't control. But Vlad does. Vlad can. And Vlad wants to help him. He's the only other person who can get close whenever Danny runs too hot. Whenever his igneous hair cracks, splits, and spits back out into magma and his friends can't get close, Vlad can.

His hair is made of magma, which runs so hot that people need specialized suits in order to get near it. He physically cannot get close to the living as a ghost unless he's calm enough for his hair to cool into igneous rock. Which isn't as often as he would like. And sometimes he's too hot for other ghosts to get near unless they have fire cores -- which Vlad has.

There have been many times when Danny's having a meltdown (literally) and gone somewhere to be alone, to let his anger and hurt and loneliness overflow and spill out, that when he's come back to, Vlad's right there with him as an anchor. It's desperately frustrating, it's the only time they can get along. They don't say anything, Danny just turns and clings onto the only person he can touch as a ghost.

Its not fair. Vlad wants to kill his foster dad, and Danny can't let him do that. But he wants to be trained by the man, he wants his help and wants what he can offer. But Vlad can't step away from his revenge long enough to let him. It's just not fair. He thinks for a moment that maybe it could work, and then Vlad does something to remind him that no, it can't.

Vlad Masters sees too much of himself in Daniel Brown -- from the way he holds himself, to the defenses he puts up, his quiet anger that builds and builds and builds until it explodes. That simmers beneath his skin. All the way down to the fact that they have matching cores. This boy is cut from the same cloth as him, and by god does he want to help him. He's always wanted to be a father, and Daniel Brown is too much like him for him to ignore. He genuinely, truly cares about Danny and his wellbeing.

He wants to help him, child just let him help you. Let him kill your foster dad so he can adopt you himself and help with these powers that terrify and intrigue you -- he knows what that's like to have something that you can't control, to have a heat that you can't cool down from. "We're in the same boat you and I, let him help you please."

But his methods are all wrong, and Danny is too much like him -- stubbornness and all -- for him to agree when they oppose each other so greatly. But again, Danny is much like him -- which means that Vlad is equally stubborn, and in every single one of their fights he's parental. He's annoyingly parental. He drops his interest in Maddie to focus his efforts in trying to coax Danny onto his side. It's like trying to get a traumatized cat to trust you, and on some levels it works. It's like he makes some progress, and then moves too quickly and the cat immediately runs off and you have to start back from square one.

TL:DR; Vlad and Danny both want to find family in each other but they're too different to get along and ultimately they are doomed by the narrative to be at constant odds with one another unless one of them is changes, and it doesn't matter who.

[comicaurora]

with myths like "Orpheus and Eurydice", "Izanagi and Izanami" and other katabasis tales, what would you say is the general message of them? what kind of lesson were the old story tellers trying to convey with such tales?

I think the mere existence of "orphic mysteries" proves that question cannot possibly have a simple answer, but one framing could be that a journey to the underworld seeking something (almost always a doomed endeavor, in these stories nothing can truly come back out of the underworld) results in the protagonist returning transformed with a better understanding of themself and WHY the journey was doomed. Izanagi and Izanami is comparatively simply by katabasis standards - dead means dead, it's just a question of how well she can hide it. Orpheus and Eurydice is a tougher one, because the question of "why did he turn around?" haunts the narrative and has many explanations - Orpheus didn't trust Hades's word, Orpheus couldn't bear to wait, Orpheus loved too much and too deeply to stand another second without her.

There's also an element of metaphor that almost certainly plays into it. Journeys into the underworld are not terribly relatable, but things that feel like journeys into the underworld are near universal experiences. Suffer a tragedy, feel the world shatter, fall somewhere dark and deep and spend a hot minute figuring out how to be alive again. Reach a conclusion that might not be entirely correct but is correct enough to get your heart beating again, claw your way out of the abyss with a new playbook on how to function. Maybe the thing that broke your heart last time was that you couldn't accept that dead means dead. Maybe you loved too deeply. Maybe you figured out why you turned around.

[madlori]

If the only thing you can lord over buddie is that bucktommy is canon, then you really didn't care at all about the ship.

7 seasons of being a family unit, being there for each other, having each other's back but hey! Here comes another underdeveloped love interest, but since it's a man this time, you don't care about Buck being stuck in the same hamster wheel, again, because he's kissing a man and that's hot 🙄

Also for all your doom and gloom about buddie not happening, do remember that Tommy/Eddie was an idea in Tim's mind at first, so Eddie can be read as queer, even if it's not in canon yet.

I guess you don't place much value on them being a family unit and always there for each other, and having each other's back...all of which is still true and will continue to BE true. But it's only important to you as a prelude to them kissing, right? It has no value in and of itself. I love their relationship. I love what they are to each other. But YOU are making me not want to see it, because every time they turn to each other, lean on each other, support each other, we have to listen to you shrieking BUDDIE CANON CONFIRMED or whatever, because to a certain genre of shipper (not all buddie shippers, etc) any interaction or feeling they have with each other exists only in service to the ship.

I swear to god, I'm gonna banish the phrase "hamster wheel" from y'all's mouths until I get an actual definition as to what you think it means, because from where I sit, to you it just means "he's with someone who's not Eddie." To me, it means that Buck continually fell bass-ackwards into relationships that weren't right for him, looking for something he wasn't even sure what it was. And heyyyyy, he's currently in a relationship that he actively chose and fought for, having learned something new and important about himself, with someone who makes him giddy and excited in a way we have never seen him be, who the people around him can see gives him contentment. But none of that matters, because it's not Eddie, and that is by definition his only appropriate partner, so he must still be on that hamster wheel. Also if we're going by creator intent here, Tim's said he wrote this relationship specifically to reflect Buck being off of it.

As for underdeveloped love interest? I wrote an entire ass essay about how MUCH we know about Tommy, and it's reams compared to anything we've ever known about Buck's girlfriends OR Eddie's current girlfriend who does not even have a last name. Tommy has been introduced in a way that integrates him with the 118, with multiple interests, a character arc of his own from his first appearance, a set of motivations and emotional arcs that are NOT about Buck, and something to actually offer in a relationship besides existing. Anyone saying he's underdeveloped is determined to read him as such, especially for the limited amount of time we've had him.

And I never said Eddie couldn't be read as queer. He can EASILY be read as queer. I said he WOULDN'T be. Those are two different things. If Tommy and Eddie had gotten together (which I give no more narrative weight to than Maddie and Eddie getting together, which was also a gleam in the eye at one point) I'd equally be saying that Buck would never be queer.

It's hilarious to me that I'm being accused of liking a ship because it's hot (it is, and I do, and that's...fine? there's nothing bad about that?) as if people enjoy Buddie because of the amorphous purity of it all and not at ALL because it's hot (it is and you should say so).

If my thoughts about this are so upsetting to you, just block me, dude. I promise I won't take it personally.

Also, just...learn to enjoy a ship whether it's canon or not. I've done it, we've all done it. It's not that hard, especially THIS ship, which has so much good stuff to it regardless of whether there's romance or not. Those of us who like Buck with Tommy are not taking away from you enjoying Buddie, or anyone doing so. It's not like...the State of Buddie will lose congressional representation if the population falls below a certain level. The existence of another ship does not affect yours.

[whetstonefires]

see the really fun thing about luo binghe for me is we're taking the established critique of a certain style of protagonist, the guy who goes killing and fucking his way through the world, accumulating victories and treasures and bitches and wreaking deserved vengeance,

the critique of this kind of fuck-emperor (i'm told many centuries established in chinese literature) that he is very clearly miserable.

that you don't live like that unless there's a gaping hole inside you that no amount of sex or power can do anything to fill, and yet you can't find any other way to even patch it over.

and then it's like. okay so why is he like this. does he have another option. the narrative doomed him to this; he is the audience's little toy. he is the audience's collective scream. he is the cycle of abuse made flesh. he is thirteen years old forever. at what point was he still salvageable. could he have ever saved himself.

and the answer to that last one is simultaneously no, he could not, people aren't made to be alone, how can you learn to be good and happy when the world gives you nothing but pain and betrayal; everyone needs a little kindness, sometimes all anyone needs is just a little kindness. but also:

he was always the only person who could.

[inbarfink]

I mean, the thing is that fiction about aliens is almost always going to be about some sort of Other on some level. Whatever it’s about demonizing or fear-mongering about some sort of Outsider Group or trying to get the audience to sympathize with the Other via the metaphor of a lovable alien. 

And Invader Zim is kind of an interesting spot there because, like, it’s not just ‘Bad Outsider Out to Destroy Our Beloved In-Group’ or ‘Poor Sympathetic Outsider Being Put-Down by the In-Group’. First thing first because Zim is kinda both. He is both the Outsider secretly hiding inside the in-group plotting their destruction - but the narrative and framing also sympathizes with him and supports his view of the in-group (that humans are stupid and gross).

So he can’t really be A Scary Demonized Outsider when he gets so much narrative sympathy and support, but also… he is a murderous little world-conquering bastard and most of his suffering is generally just him gets exactly what he deserves so he can’t be your classic sort of Sympathetic Outsider either. 

And the other thing is that the in-group is not even really involved in Zim’s conflict. Zim’s biggest challenge in conquering the earth is Dib, another Outsider. Often, despite being a human and thus part of the literal in-group, Dib is an even bigger Outsider to humanity than Zim is.

Zim and Dib are both Outsiders, and Zim isn’t just an Outsider as an Alien on Earth - among his own people he is in the same situation as Dib is, an Outsider in his own in-group. (Not that he can ever admit to himself that is the case). So these two Weirdos are fighting to protect/further the goals of two in-groups that will never actually accept them. 

And so often their main weapon against each other and the primary danger and the source of their suffering for themselves is the same thing; the in-group conformity and enforcement of social norms. 

Dib’s main evidence that Zim is an Alien is, most of the time, just the fact that he looks and acts weird. But also he himself is constantly bullied for looking and acting weird.

And Zim’s most constant source of anxiety while undercover on Earth is the fact that he’s going to get caught being Too Weird and then not just fail his mission, but get brutally dissected and experimented on. But his best defense against being exposed is… basically just to point out just how much Dib also Diverges From the Norm.

It’s the story of two Weirdos trying to get the other punished for being weird in some way, while the Normies just kinda look on and laugh at them both. And the actual thing they want, recognition and acceptance from their in-group is the one thing they are doomed to never actually get. 

And honestly, I think that's actually what makes a lot of real-life Outsiders cling to IZ, especially while we’re teens. I think, in a way, the fact that it’s kind of a messy Outsider narrative makes it more relatable to the messy middle-school/high-school experience than something more neatly crafted to be uplifting to the Weird Kids.

I mean, I certainly see the obvious value in fiction that’s actually trying to create a positive narrative for queer teens or autistic kids or maybe just scene kids or any combination of the following. This sort of media is very good, and can be just as important to some folks.

But... also the truth is that when you’re an edgy teen wrecked with self-loathing for Weirdness you don’t even fully understand “There’s nothing wrong with me and all the people making me feel like they are Bad!” can be a hard message to really believe in. Sometimes it’s easier to start from “Maybe I am all the terrible things people say that I am but.. still deserve love and sympathy, I can still be the hero of the story”. 

And because, sadly, the problem of Weirdos attacking each other for being Weirdos using the same rhetoric that’s used to hurt them, just for the sake of approval and recognition from in-groups that are never going to treat either of them as nothing but a joke - is not a phenomenon exclusive to the Silly Alien Invader Nicktoon.

And Dib and Zim’s rivalry is a great basic framework to explore it both in analysis of the canon and in fanworks.

[verdemoun]

Fun fact, Kieran may have been originally supposed to live longer, at least judging by his many unused voice lines (found on YouTube) and a longer hairstyle which I actually think looks better for him (found on rdr wiki of cut content). Maybe he was supposed to go to Guarma? The voice lines to me suggested going on hunting missions with him but I’m not too sure.

spoilers. obviously

fun fact i have listened to the 2+ hours of Kieran's cut voice lines so many times even my housemates know it and groan when they walk in and i'm listening to it. Did you know one of his cut voice lines for a near miss in a shootout is 'whoo, nearly took my head off!' to foreshadow his eventual demise? And he has several variations of lines telling Arthur to rest with the gentlest tone suggesting he would have been one of the few characters to show concern for Arthur's illness in later chapters? And slightly less relevant but there is a cut interaction in where he asks Jack to sneak him some food only for Arthur to threaten to kill him BUT CALLING HIMSELF UNCLE KIERAN???

screenshots by cad5150

About Guarma, all but confirmed. Here is one of his cut outfits, which I think very obviously suits the vibe of what most of the gang wore in Guarma like compare it to Micah's Guarma outfit in particular. Additionally he has this hood as an outfit accessory: some people think it was intended that when he rides into camp Horsemen Apocalypse there's a moment of the hood being taken off and then the characters having a much more visceral reaction to his eyes being gauged out but personally I think it makes way more sense that he was meant to be in Banking, the Old American Art 'replacing' Sean as an extra gun. Which would have been really cool because I would have loved a conversation where they bring up they're a gun short and it spiral into more reflection on how they're not just a gun short, they're a man down, they lost the 'joy in their lives' Sean Macguire and they were still hurting instead of just NEVER MENTIONING HIM AGAIN other than a few rare character lines.

Side tangent also his scarf is different in his guarma outfit which is it's own essay because if you're going off the blue high honor red low honor theory this so strong implies we could have seen some really cool character development. looking at what the gang were wearing in banking and then in guarma there's no obvious explanation as to where he got it. how cute would it have been if we got a scene where mary-beth gifted him a scarf?? but the also terrifying implication that we might see kieran become less high honour good boy blorbo to someone a bit more morally ambiguous?

I think the question really is how he would have fit in in Guarma, which of course we will never know and considering how much cut content there is about Guarma. Like everyone else in Guarma makes sense: Dutch's descent into immorality being so clear even Arthur questions it, Bill being the one trusted to look after Javier following his rescue, supporting their friendship in rdr1, Micah reaffirming his position as an actual piece of shit in his lines responding to Hosea and Lenny's deaths and complete lack of empathy. Maybe a kieran who is slightly more ruthless and active in shootouts in guarma but also shows compassion for arthur as arthur gets sick? Maybe the attack on Hanging Dog Ranch was meant to be more a revenge for Kieran's death assuming he was taken and killed similarly to his death in chapter 4 (given how much much foreshadowing there is for his death), but just another misery in chapter 6 that hits harder because we have more time to grow attached and see him develop?

Except. Except then we get to cut outfit kieran.

first. hellooooo sailor. but who is this man. who is this man who looks older. and wears a very, very low honour red scarf. and is obviously dressed still as an outlaw, and didn't go live a happy life with mary-beth. is it. is it possible. kieran was not always meant to be doomed by the narrative??

is it possible we would have seen kieran become more loyal to dutch and micah, true to his army abandoning, gang jumping, choosing to ride with the o'driscolls rather than die, immediately 'loyal' to the vdls despite torture because being alone meant certain death, coward nature? or would he have just been a character john could encounter in the epilogue? perhaps shaken by knowing arthur, as one of his very, very few friends, died trying to be a better person and abandoned any effort to be more than an outlaw?

but. but kieran. shirt all buttoned up. scarf on. thick coat. hair slightly feral and wild. why does it looked like you're all dressed up for the cold, buddy? like- like you might have been hiding out up mount hagen.

[letters-adressed-to-the-fire]

so this is why i think peter is the one looking in people's windows

A few days ago, I saw a swiftie on TikTok talking about how I look in people’s windows could be taken as the other perspective of the same story narrated in Peter, and I just couldn’t stop thinking about it. So, I decided to go in-depth and start a self-assigned quest to look for any clue that could interweave these two stories in a way that made sense.

I know this could sound a little absurd or could be taken as a stretch of some sort, but I believe, and I’m sure most of her fans would agree, that most of the beauty in Taylor’s writing comes from the countless different interpretations people bestow on her lyrics. I’m not asking you to take this analysis as absolute truth because I’m genuinely just having fun with it, and I hope you do too.

I’ll analyze “I look in people's windows” from Peter’s point of view and “peter” from the other character’s pov, whom we’ll call Wendy given the obvious parallelism to Peter Pan.

Well, the main and obvious connection is given by the “window” element. While Wendy is waiting for Peter by the window, Peter is looking for her from outside that window. If you look at this through very literal and rational eyes, I believe you’d think it doesn’t make sense that they were both looking for each other through the same window but never met again. So HERE is where I want to insert my interpretation.

There are two options I can think of that would explain the failed meeting. 

Peter intentionally avoided Wendy while still looking for her every day.

Every time they were looking for each other, it happened at different moments.

The first case presents a lot of questions, like, is the pledge to grow up what is stopping Peter because he knows he can’t do it? Or was he cruel enough to wait for Wendy to move on and then come back? Either way, the conclusion remains the same. In this scenario, Peter was a coward. If it was because he didn’t want to grow up, if it was because he just wanted Wendy to never move on, or if it was because he never gave her a real answer.

On the other hand, the second case talks about something that’s closer to a tragedy. They were always doomed by the narrative. While Wendy was waiting for him, Peter was looking for her, but Wendy never saw him—not when she waited or when Peter was looking for her. We would need to assume some things here tho. Either it all comes back to the first option and Peter had been avoiding her the entire time, or he thought she had already forgotten about him. The first option shows us, once again, that Peter is a coward, but the second one also tells us something important: he may be too scared to grow up, but he’s not selfish enough to stop her from moving on.

“Northbound I got carried away As you boarded your train South, south, south, south, south, south A feather taken by the wind blowing I'm afflicted by the not knowing so”

Based on this verse, we can design a new theory. He watched her leave and he was aching for her to come back to him. So he started looking for her in other people’s windows, wondering if one of them was gonna be her. Even when he had already said goodbye to her.

And here’s where another verse of peter will acquire significance:

“I thought it was just goodbye for now”

With both songs in mind, it sounds like he said goodbye to her, hoping they were gonna see each other again, but he also knew he had to let her go at the time and that he was condemned to miss her. But what Peter didn’t know was that Wendy was gonna go through the same thing, but she wouldn’t have the comfort of knowing what he did (wait for her).

“promises oceans deep, but never to keep”

This is why we get two completely different endings for both songs. While Peter is still addicted to the what-ifs, Wendy has turned off the light; the fantasies have expired for her. Wendy grew up; Peter didn’t. While I look in people's windows gives you the feeling of being running from house to house in a neighborhood you don’t recognize anymore, trying to fit into a routine you were used to in the past; peter reads like the last chapter of a book you’ll never touch again.

[tobiasdrake]

You previously anaylzed Yamcha's fighting style and the flaws he doesn't overcome. Do you have any thoughts on how Krillin fights?

Krillin's fighting style is one of my favorites, to be honest. He's a dedicated pragmatist, ready and willing to do whatever it takes to win. His techniques and strategies are deceptive and tricksy, always on the lookout for a way to circumvent the straight fight.

Krillin's fighting style is all about cutting the knot. It's just a shame that, Dragon Ball being what it is, his methods run counter to its central philosophies and so he is doomed to constant failure.

We get our first glimpse of the kind of fighter Krillin is going to be when he defeats Goku in the rock hunt on the first day of their training.

He first tries to win the competition by forging a counterfeit rock. But when the Muten-Roshi sees through that, he instead uses his counterfeit to fake out Goku and steal the real rock for himself.

He's narratively punished for this victory when his reward dinner poisons him via badly prepared pufferfish. But we see the foundations of what will become his martial style beginning to take root here.

Krillin is a tricky trickster. His goal is to be the guy still standing at the end of the fight. That's what he's here for. Though he does quickly soften up and become Goku's Male Bestie (opposited Bulma as Goku's Female Bestie), he carries this pragmatism with him as he begins to develop his skills.

Note that this is not to say Krillin isn't a capable fighter in his own right. As a pupil of Kame-senryu, he is a formidable martial artist. He begins to show the fruits of his martial training as early as the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai, where he crushes one of the monks that used to bully him in the preliminaries. He also pressures his own mentor, the Muten-Roshi, by raw skill alone.

Krillin's got the skills and he uses them. When I say he's underhanded and deceitful, I don't mean instead of fighting straight. It's a weapon in his toolbelt but not the only one. Nonetheless, it's a potent one, as he nearly defeats the Muten-Roshi via a special technique that only Krillin would devise.

Goddammit, Roshi.

He starts out using these kinds of underhanded tricks to compliment his martial arts. But as he grows as a martial artist, he begins to incorporate strategies like this into his art itself.

Aside from a brief and mostly offscreen bout with General Blue, his next significant fights are in the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai. His fight with Chiaotzu demonstrates the way Krillin's sneakiness and martial training complement one another, as a major spotlight of it is his ki exchange with Chiaotzu.

Chiaotzu, like Tenshinhan, is a trained wielder of the Dodonpa. A lethal technique first introduced by the assassin Taopaipai, designed to fire a thin ki bullet from one finger, straight through its target for a mortal blow.

To counter this, Krillin attempts to perform the Kamehameha for the very first time. Which. Is. Absolutely stupid and reckless, as the Muten-Roshi notes. Baby's First Kamehameha is a poor choice to defend himself from the Dodonpa.

Or it would be, if that were the plan.

This is Krillin's strength in action. He fakes out everyone with an in @ Me Bruh bluff and then skirts around the direct competition to blindside Chiaotzu when he isn't looking. This is what a tricky trickster martial artist looks like.

In his next match with Goku, we see Krillin's ruthless pragmatism on full display. He devises his own version of Tenshinhan's Taiyoken/Solar Flare.

And he nearly wins by a tail when he once again breaks out his weak, improvised Kamehameha.

This bluff is brilliant. He gets Goku's focus on the Kamehameha while his true goal is Goku's tail. Unfortunately for him, Goku - under advisement from both the Muten-Roshi and his Grandpa Gohan - has been training his body to rid himself of that critical flaw over the last three years. His tail no longer saps his energy when it's grabbed.

But if Goku were still the same fighter Krillin knew before, this bluff would have been game-ending for their semifinal match. Krillin's abilities both in martial arts and in knot-cutting have advanced substantially. It's just that Goku's have advanced as well.

Krillin only gets one fight in the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. But he goes hard.

In the three years since last tournament, Krillin's devised bending ki blasts that home in on their target. Holy shit, what a stellar-

GOT YOU SUCKER THAT'S A FAKEOUT IT'S KRILLER TIME

Krillin's invented bending ki blasts that home in on their target as a distraction. Sadly for Krillin, characters at this point are beginning to distribute Bukujutsu, the Flying Technique, among themselves so surprise ringouts aren't an option anymore. Piccolo's been capable of performing Bukujutsu since his previous life.

Krillin loses the match, though he does force an admission from Piccolo that martial artists of his caliber will make the world difficult to conquer.

The next chance Krillin has to put his skills on display comes six years later when the Saiyans attack the Earth. Vegeta and Nappa grow their six Saibamen, forcing the Earthlings to entertain them by battling these veggie monsters. Tenshinhan and Yamcha handily defeat two of them, though Yamcha's killed by a surprise attack.

And then Krillin decides enough is enough and makes his move: Opening fire directly on Nappa and Vegeta with everything he's got.

A fool's attack guaranteed to fail against the insurmountable might of the Saiyan-no, wait, what's he doing?

Ha, fuck you, he was aiming for the Saibamen the whole time! Made ya look. Though he does also hit Nappa and Vegeta for good measure.

Krillin is technically the first Earthling to ever land a hit on either of these guys. Imagine that. It doesn't do shit to them, but still.

This fight also brings out Krillin's ultimate technique. The epitome of his skills, the final fruits of his labors, the be-all end-all of Krillin Techniques. You already know what I'm talking about.

This. This, right here. The Kienzan/Destructo Disc is peak Krillin. Literally a knife with which to cut the knot. Everyone else is throwing ki punches except those assassins shooting ki bullets. And Krillin stops to ask, "What if I sharpened my ki into a buzzsaw so I can slice open an opponent's flesh rather than trying to beat them at punching?"

Prior to Goku's arrival, this technique from one of the weakest fighters on this field is the closest the overconfident Nappa ever comes to defeat.

Nappa outright tries to take it like a punch. But for Vegeta paying the fuck attention, this would have taken his head clean off. Even Frieza can't resist it.

Because it's not something you resist. It's a buzzsaw. It doesn't hit, it cleaves. It's a technique that's so utterly Krillin in nature.

In fact, the entire Namek arc in general is peak Krillin. A three-way tug-of-war over the Dragon Balls between Frieza's ungodly might, Vegeta's rogue wildcard antics and deadly force, and Krillin being a tricky trickster gunning for any opportunity to scoop victory out from under them.

That Krillin wins.

This is the key to Krillin's longevity as a character. Like the rest of the cast, he eventually falls victim to inability to keep pace with Goku's advances, and becomes further and further de-emphasized from the big action pieces of Dragon Ball.

Krillin's tricky methods were rarely allowed to grant him much success in the ring due to the way they chafe against Dragon Ball's tone. This simply isn't a series where ruthless pragmatism and knot-cutting generally wins the fight. But those same methods also gave him staying power and an ability to continue influencing the plot of Dragon Ball long after he ceased to be relevant as a fighter.

Krillin's style is designed to punch above his weight class, and he's in general a tricky trickster outside of the ring too. The result of this is tremendous staying power as a weaker character brushing elbows with the titanic super gods of the cast. He may not be the clincher in a fight but there's almost always something for a pragmatist like him to do.

[stellarxdeath]

I've seen a handful of posts lately saying that the writers of IWTV have butchered Claudia's character and/or wrote her poorly, things of that ilk; lamenting how dirty she was done by the skill of the writers. Now that I'm all caught up and s2 is finished* [ sob ] I... Have some choice thoughts on this perspective.

Number one being that Claudia was explicitly doomed by the narrative the moment she'd been introduced to it. Her death is referenced but not outright stated initially, moreso implied, but the writing makes no mistake in telling us that Claudia, the Child Vampiress, will die. She's not potentially out there somewhere, she's not in hiding, she is dead, and she will never be able to tell us the whole of her truth beyond her diaries.

The second issue that the "IWTV Writers bad" crowd seems to forget is that, Even with the diaries, this is ultimately Louis' story, and the gaps in perspective are inevitably filled by him and eventually Armand, but never Claudia. She was disregarded because time and time again, Louis disregarded her for Lestat, and then for Armand; She was betrayed by the coven she professed her love for with a horrible, terrible, calculated eagerness because of Louis coming in and fucking with the coven dynamic; Regardless if that dynamic was healthy or not.

What Claudia and Louis had was precious, but it was also deeply, deeply flawed. He can effectively be blamed for her death, drawn all the way back to the riots incited by his choice to kill Fenwick; Was Louis justified in doing so? Yeah, abso-fucking-lutely, but this doesn't change the fact that his choices directly damned her to die.

Third is the claim that Claudia went from lethal and independent to desperate and weak? When? No?? Again I'm loosely paraphrasing some posts I've seen and attempting to take them in good faith; Claudia, from season one, was very interested in finding other Vampires, she was hellbent on it, and unfortunately it lead her to Bruce aka "The Motherfucker."

Her attempt to take Louis with her to Europe in s1 was in service of that goal. Claudia wanted to escape Lestat, she wanted to save Louis, and she wanted to find her people. She even tried to make her own Vampires despite being a fledgling! She has always wanted community, and I'd go as far as to say she was so strong because she could only rely on herself for so goddamn long, Louis being trapped under Lestat's thumb even after Lestat came crawling back in the later half of s1.

I understand that Claudia is a fan fave and people very rightly wished for her to live - the thing I have a gripe with is that some are taking this love for her and making it more important than the story itself. Interview With The Vampire is a tale of regret, trauma and abuse, a story of how memories are monsters and to be a Vampire is to be damned to the Odyssey of recollection, and if you don't survive, your memory will always inevitably be twisted over time. A life in eternity is a life full of pain.

The fact that people are so upset over the unfairness of her life is the intended effect; You are supposed to be upset that she is doomed, the writers of IWTV did a fucking fantastic job of making you feel that way - however, blaming the writers and crying "Bad writing" over the intended reaction feels just a tad silly to me.

As another post put it: Louis loved Claudia so much, but it was never enough. Everyone in Claudia's life except for Madeline betrayed her, her vampyric rebirth was the bandaid to a shitty vampyric marriage, she was denied her own life and Armand the Ancient fucking Coven Leader did nothing to save her; so much so that she was a goddamn Sacrifice so that Louis may live instead. Disregarded. Doomed. Damned. The injustice is meant to piss you off, I beg of those who think the Writers fucked up to simply sit with that feeling. Sit with the injustice. In the end, it's all any of us can do.

it was not finished oops* more opinions on the way

[duncebento]

maybe i'll write more about it later but what i really loved about bojack horseman is that its message is ultimately anti-fatalistic, and this stance is determined by BAITING AND SWITCHING with what is meant to be their tragic protagonist-- bojack is supposed to die!! as is the trope of tragedy, the show TELLS us that bojack is going to die before the story even begins; his implied falling into the sea is part of the intro sequence that plays during every episode. and if that wasn't enough, it's a motif throughout the show-- like his painting of one horse standing in front of another horse face-down in the pool, explicitly alluded to as as a representation of narcissus (although, symbolically, the horse in the pool is removed when the painting is destroyed!). like the fact that he's a horse, and you can lead a horse to water... like his idolization of secretariat, who chose to kill himself by jumping off a bridge.

the story has set itself up to have its tragic protag, who is famously reckless and self-hating and irresponsible, drown in a drunken haze. to us as viewers, the environment around bojack gestures toward his drowning, both in its symbolism and in the social environment he has cultivated, which would likely accept his death as a sad inevitability. at times WE may want bojack to die, or at least view his death as a necessary consequence to the way he lives, an easier out for the people around him. and in the second-to-last episode he DOES drown-- but we find out, in the end, that he drowns in the pool, and he's found, and he's rescued and his heart starts again! and some of the last words in the series-- "sometimes, life's a bitch and then you live," embody that subversion. he doesn't get to die, and as much as that is a gift, it entails a the hard labor of responsibility. not wriggling out but standing firm.

our protagonist teeters between taking responsibility and blaming his cosmic circumstance, and we are forced to question what we believe about fate-- is it really always possible to change and to take control of ourselves, or is that childish naivete-- or could it be both? we are given so much to suggest that change is possible-- and then that hope is taken away from us. bojack gets sober and starts drinking again. he decides to tell the truth but lies the moment the pressure is too much to bear. all signs point to his end, so the show could have been brutal, could have been cynical, would have been totally within its right to have its tragic protagonist die his tragic and prestated death, and its message could have been "look at this sad, sad man who spun out. good intentions are not enough."

but the genre shifts at the last moment, and it wasn't a drowning after all but a baptism! and in this shift the narrative ceases to be just a compelling narrative but takes a stance on us, tells us that it is never hopeless to try, even when all of your surroundings seem to point to the contrary, even when you fail so many times that the next failure seems inevitable. and that this IS childish, and that cynicism seems smarter and bitterness more fun, and that, indeed, good intentions are not at all enough. BUT! the illusion that you have been doomed is a powerful illusion, sometimes an all-powerful one, but it does not have to be the case. and thats epic

[alex51324]

OK, so it is actually thematically relevant, but not necessarily in a good way

I've mentioned before that a lot of the flaws in OFMD S2 seem to stem from DJenks and the team trying to eat their cake and have it too: when they have two things they want to do, but can't--or don't have time, budget, whatever--to make them actually work together, they just jam them both in anyway.

The biggest of these is, of course, having Izzy die at the end, and a "kind ending," where Stede and Ed launch a non-piracy-based life, while the ship and remaining crew set off under the leadership of the younger generation.

As I've also mentioned before, Izzy's death makes narrative sense as a setup for a revenge arc in the as-of-yet-hypothetical Season 3. The finale gestures toward that with Zheng suggesting they team up, she to avenge her fleet, Ed to avenge his lifelong right-hand man--and the rest of the crew, presumably, to avenge their unicorn.

Ed shrugs his shoulders and fucks off to start an inn, and the rest of the crew sail off for new adventures. That ending would make sense as a series finale: Ed and Stede, having accomplished what they wanted to do in the field of piracy, launch a new, land-based life, while the other sail off to new adventures under the leadership of the next generation. It hasn't quite been earned yet, at this point--for one thing, Stede and Ed have some relationship issues to work through--but given another season, it could work really well.

The trouble is, that you can't cram a happy ending and a sequel hook into the same five minutes. Neither one actually works. You can kind of make out the general idea of both elements, but what actually comes across is the two captains flitting off into a doomed, whim-based venture while giving, a most, maybe half a fuck about Izzy's death.

And the reason that's thematically relevant, is that wanting two contradictory things and once, and refusing to choose between them, is the core of Ed's internal conflict.

He's bored of being Blackbeard, and he's tired of doing violence, and he wants to be soft and open and have genuine relationships with people--but he also wants the respect and deference that come with the Blackbeard brand.

He wants, as we see in the Gravy Basket, to be a simple innkeeper--but for the guests to never be rude or demanding (because they secretly know he could kill them).

He wants to be able to offer a half-assed apology and be embraced without criticism (because he's Blackbeard and they don't actually have a choice).

He wants to be a fisherman who does not actually have to catch any fucking fish (because the other fishermen should be impressed and grateful that Blackbeard is slumming it with them).

Most of all, he wants emotional intimacy with Stede, without vulnerability and the potential of getting hurt. (Because the main thing the Blackbeard persona always was, was a way not to get hurt.)

Ed's entire arc is painting a picture of a man who doesn't know how to make hard choices between two things he really wants.

And season 2, especially combined with the scattershot, contradictory postseason interviews, paints a vivid picture of a showrunner with the exact same problem, artistically speaking.

That may be part of the reason why that aspect of Ed's character is so convincingly and compellingly depicted, but it doesn't bode well for the show actually resolving the conflict.