#he'd kill ozai first though

[wouldkirakillthem]

Azula from Avatar the Last Airbender

[discordiansamba]

Chief Hakoda has heard a lot about Prince Zuko.

The first rumors that reached his ears were simple, uncomplicated. The Prince had a sickly disposition, and was confined to a villa on a Fire Nation resort island for the sake of his health. That was why when Prince Ozai took the crown of Fire Lord, it was his second child, Princess Azula, who became his heir instead.

It just made the next rumors he heard about the young prince that much more incomprehensible.

The Avatar had returned, and his father had sent Prince Zuko to capture him. Either the prince's health had improved over the years, or Ozai was a crueler man than Hakoda could have ever guessed. Some said that the prince had burned down Kyoshi Island- others said the fire was only limited to the village.

The next time he heard about the prince, it was from Bato.

He had heard the Avatar had companions- but he hadn't know they were his children. They were taking him to the North Pole so that they could master waterbending, and Hakoda could not be more proud. At the same time, he grew concerned- and thus, he asked about the Avatar's pursuer. Had he heard anything about Prince Zuko?

Bato's expression grew grim. His children had described the prince as something out of a spirit tale. They'd described him as rage given human form- and had added that they were using human loosely. Bato had inquired what they meant by that, and they'd explained that the prince had the claws, horns, and wings of a dragon.

Hakoda had been raised on his mother's spirit tales- among them were tales of those who had been cursed by the spirits- their souls reshaped, their bodies twisted. If there were any family that deserved to be cursed by them, he supposed to the Fire Nation royal family made sense. It also explained the inconsistency- if the Prince were cursed, no doubt his family would want to hide him away where no one could see him.

Perhaps sending him after the Avatar was as much an attempt to get rid of him as anything.

The next time Hakoda heard of Prince Zuko, it was from Sokka himself. He'd come to visit their camp at the mouth of Chameleon Bay. Hakoda eventually questioned him about the prince, and Sokka had just laughed and said that they didn't have to worry about Zuko chasing them anymore. He'd decided to help them instead.

Hakoda gave him a look.

But his son went on to describe how he had shown up at the Northern Water Tribe with his Uncle, to warn them about the Fire Nation invasion- and about how Zuko had broken Aang out of Pohuai Stronghold. Hakoda nearly choked on his sea prune stew, staring at his son as if he were telling tales. He'd heard of Pohuai. He couldn't imagine one person breaking into it.

Sokka just shrugged. Zuko's not exactly normal.

The next time he heard of Prince Zuko, it was again from his son's lips. Ba Sing Se had fallen, and they had barely escaped with their lives. The Avatar had taken a fatal wound, but Katara had managed to revive him with spirit water. And Zuko... Zuko had covered their escape. He'd been captured instead.

They seized a Fire Nation ship, posing as soldiers. In the ports of the Fire Nation colonies, Hakoda heard a new rumor about the prince- about how Princess Azula had paraded him, chained and muzzled through the Caldera. He'd been vicious, they whispered- spewing sparks from behind his muzzle and growling at anyone who got too close. They said it was a merciful act- how noble of the princess to spare him, even though a dragon now controlled his body.

He was being kept in the Capital prison, away from the sun. They hoped it would drive the dragon out of him. If not...

...how tragic it would be, if the Fire Lord were forced to kill his own son.

(The next time he heard of Prince Zuko, it was from the Dragon of the West. He'd invited himself onto their ship, and made himself part of their invasion plans- but his sole intention, he said, was to rescue his nephew.)

[nayadoesstuff]

my azula/zuko role swap

I spent a lot of time thinking about *why* Azula would be banished. she's the typical golden child, the prodigy. so why would Ozai give that up? I read everyone's suggestions, had a good think and I think I've finally got it. Something we need to remember, is Azula isn't like Zuko. she isn't Zuko, so i highly doubt she'd be punished for speaking out of turn - because she probably wouldn't speak out of turn in the first place. I did see the idea of someone saying Azula *accidentally* murdered Ursa (or so she thought) and I really liked it. I wanted to be more original, so I did tweak the story - but credits go to @oscar-meir Everything up to the meeting with Fire Lord Azulon is the same. Azula believes her mother fears her, that she loves Zuko more, etc. However, this is where things change. You see, Azulon ordered Ozai to kill Zuko, and Ozai was going to do it. Azula overhears, and decides to interfere. Despite everything, Zuko is her brother, even if she resents him. She attempts to defend him, and steps between Ozai and Zuko (metaphorically, Zuko isn't present). A fight breaks out, and Azula is outmatched (obviously, she's like 7) but I feel like at that moment, she would've gotten blue fire. Ursa hears all of this, and comes to interfere. The next morning, half the palace is scorched, Azulon is dead, and Ursa is missing. This whole scenario is traumatic, and Azula mostly represses it. The official story is that she lost control of her power, and Azula has no reason to not believe it. She believes, deep down, she is a monster responsible for the death of her own mother. Ozai gets crowned, and the next few years are relatively similar to canon, with the exception of Zuko's agni kai. Ozai has seen Azula's power, so he pushes her into rigorous training. She's a prodigy, after all. Azula is mostly consumed by guilt - she's afraid of her power, deep down. She even begins seeing her mother. But she cannot lose her father's favour, so she continues to train hard. We can see her become mostly similar to canon - she's strong, powerful, intelligent, but that feeling that she's a monster keeps gnawing at her, keeping her from her full potential, and Ozai fears her, and wants to control her. He's desperate to fully weaponise Azula, so he tries his hardest to snuff out her weakness. He of course, fails. Azula is still mostly hesitant to achieve her full potential, which leaves Ozai frustrated. She begins to slip from her perfectionist personality, eventually becoming more of a scapegoat. In this scenario, lets say Ozai gives Azula a mission, and she fails. He declares she has lost her honour, and must fight an agni kai to regain it. Azula is afraid from the last clash with her father - she refuses to fight, and is punished. Ozai declares she is banished - she cannot return until she captures the avatar. It's the only way to regain her honour. He orders Iroh to accompany her, so he is out of the way. Iroh doesn't want to go with Azula, but he can't refuse an order from the firelord, so reluctantly goes. I don't see Iroh doing much to help Azula though. from what we know, he doesn't like her, and she never had much respect for him. Azula is desperate to regain her father's favour. This, however leaves Zuko alone with Ozai. considering Zuko is now Ozai's only option for an heir, he does his best to shape Zuko into a tool, similar to Azula in canon. Zuko is constantly reminded he is the future of the fire nation, the only option for firelord. this is constantly drilled into Zuko's head, allowing his negative traits to flourish. he could become angrier, crueler, as a result of the way he feels - a replacement for Azula, and his father's only option. I believe he'd try to control people with fear and violence, just like Azula in canon.

[the-badger-mole]

In the debate between pro-aang-kill-ozai and anti-aang-kill-ozai. Which side are you on and why? If it's the anti then did you like how it was done or do you picture something else?

I think I've mentioned before, but I am not inherently against Aang not wanting to kill Ozai. Some of my favorite heroes have a no-kill policy. I don't even mind the lionturtle solution itself. What I didn't like was how it was handled. There was plenty of time to address Aang's reluctance to kill before the second to last episode. I can think of three points in particular where it would've been thematically appropriate and given Aang's bland, two-dimensional character some depth.

First, right after the siege at the Northern Tribe. Aang may not have technically been the one who killed all those Fire Nation soldiers, but it couldn't have happened without him. You would think that someone who is both committed to pacifism and also the one the entire world is relying on to end a war that people have been fighting and dying in for a century wouldn't just be able to shrug off what happened. Aang did, though. Didn't even cross his mind when he was whining about people expecting him to kill Ozai.

What should have happened was the next season should've opened with Aang grappling with what happened and his part in it. He should feel guilty about it, not because he was actually wrong, but because it should feel wrong to him. Then, Katara and Sokka should comfort him and tell him he did nothing wrong. Build it up that their word are comforting him a little, then drop the bomb when they start talking about how cool it was. How amazing it was to see all those soldiers running in fear for once. How relieved they are that so many of them died. Then have Aang snap on them about the sanctity of life. He needs to be angry and hurt, and this should be the point where he decries the powers of the Avatar. He'd call himself a monster, and maybe he would call Katara and Sokka monsters, too. Then they (probably mostly Sokka) would argue with him that they aren't monsters, they're just trying to survive, and the Fire Nation is a threat to be taken out. This would be the first time it's brought up that Katara, Sokka...the entire world expect Aang to kill Ozai. I think it would be perfect as a season 2 opener. Season 1 was light and goofy, and Zuko was their biggest immediate threat. The siege raised the stakes, and season 2 should continue on that rising. Aang should also have started looking for another solution here. In the library, Aang should've asked Wan Shi Tong if it was possible to end the war without more violence. We should've seen Aang coming to terms with the fact that the world is suffering and he is the one they are looking to to save them. One thing I think the Harry Potter movies in particular did well was that shift from goofy and whimsical to darker and more frightening (as far as kids movies go) as the story went on and the stakes got higher, and the danger felt more real to the characters. Aang never gets that realization. He has moments when the danger feels real, but he's goofy and whimsical for pretty much the entire series until the plot of an episode needs him not to be.

The second place they should have brought up his reluctance to kill was DoBS. This really should've been a no brainer. Aang was loosing sleep over facing Ozai. He had his anxiety about losing- though not really what losing would mean for his friends and the world- but he didn't even consider what winning would take. If DoBS had been successful, there's no way Ozai would've been able to be taken alive. Logistically, killing him would've been the easiest, safest option. You mean to tell me no one brought it up? No one asked Aang how he was planning to take Ozai out? No, instead we get Aang proving he knows what enthusiastic consent looks like and taking away his excuse for what happened later, but nothing about Aang weighing his personal beliefs against the needs of the world. That training montage and confrontation that he has with his friends in the second to last episode should've happened here. This should've been when his tendency to run away should've been challenged, too, because half a season before he was crying about how he abandoned the world again. Now his instinct would be to run, but his friends would challenge him, calling back to that moment. They could demand that he present an alternative to killing Ozai. I don't think any of them would object to him living to stand trial, but Ozai is a rabid dog, essentially. He needs to be put down. Aang's got nothing, but not for lack of trying. When he tells his friends about all his efforts to find a non-lethal way to defeat Ozai, they are unmoved. They are at the doors of the Fire Nation, and now is not the time to be indecisive. He has to go face Ozai. And he's probably relieved when the plan fails. This whole situation would have the added bonus of skipping that first Kataang kiss because no way would Aang want to kiss Katara after her insisting he terminate Ozai with extreme prejudice.

The third place Aang's no-kill policy should've come up is TSR when Zuko asks him what he's planning to do when he faces Ozai if he's so against killing. This should scare Aang, and it should be his focus for the rest of the season. He should be more withdrawn from his friends, because with all the training he's doing (and he would still be training on all the elements because he's not that good at any of them), talks about the most efficient way to kill would be unavoidable. Katara might actually try to teach him bloodbending. Toph would just tell him that a big rock is just as effective as some fancy bending move. Zuko would be warning him about his father's ruthlessness and cunning. This would be where Aang looses his patience with his friends and insists that he's a pacifist and Ozai doesn't deserve to die. This would piss Katara in particular off because by this point, Aang knows what happened to her mother. He would get an earful about how Ozai's plan is to do to the Earth Kingdom what his grandfather did to the Air Nomads and how he's going to let millions of people die because of his refusal to kill one. Now, Aang can take off, only instead of just running away from his friends because he doesn't want to hear them anymore, he could be making one desperate last ditch attempt to find a solution that both ends the war and keeps him from having to kill Ozai. EIP could still happen in this circumstance, but instead of getting mad that he's being played by a girl, he would focus more on how eager for his death the Fire Nation is. That would come up in the argument about killing Ozai.

Now, for the lionturtle. I'm about to blow some minds. I have been vocal about my hatred of the Lionturtle/Rock of Destiny desu-ex-double team, and I do still hate it with a passion. However, as a concept, I don't mind the lionturtle. This is a fantasy adventure. You expect a bit of magical intervention. What I wanted was Aang grappling with this problem for more than half an episode. I wanted him working on a solution the entire time, starting from right after the siege. I wanted to see him take initiative. To actually think about the problem. Maybe have him specifically looking for the lionturtle. Then when it shows it, it could be because it knew Aang was looking and decided he was worthy of a meeting. Aang could still have his meeting with his past lives, and that could still go the way it did. Then the lionturtle could speak up. Instead of poo-pooing the idea of killing Ozai, it could agree that it was the most effective way to make sure that the war would end. Then, when Aang is despairing that he'd wasted all that time trying to find a different solution, the lionturtle could offer the spirit bending. But it would have to come at a cost, and it might not work the way that Aang hoped. Now Aang has to make a choice. Sacrifice something for this spiritbending ability (I'm thinking he loses his airbending, because it seems poetic) that might not have the outcome he's hoping for, or give up his pacifism- one of his few connections to his heritage- and kill Ozai. He chooses the spiritbending. Instead of the conveniently placed rock, Aang would actually have to give up his attachment Katara. I think he would be half-way there, having finally realized how little he understood her. He "loved" her because she was pretty and took care of him, but he's come to realize there's a lot more facets to her that he hasn't gotten to see because they don't fit his narrow view of her. He also understands what Guru Pathik was trying to tell him about one person not being able to replace everything Aang has lost, and he realizes how unfair to her he had been. He still loves her, but as a friend and caretaker. This will actually lead to a deeper friendship between them. Aang defeats Ozai without killing him, but now he has to deal with the loss of his airbending, which only now does he realize was a much of a connection between him and his people as his beliefs. He still has spiritbending. He can still airbend in the Avatar State, but he's effectively cut off a limb to keep his integrity. He will go the rest of his life wondering if it was worth it, especially after Ozai goes to trial and is sentenced to execution anyway. The effects of that on his children could be explored in LoK.

TL;DR I don't have a problem with Aang not wanting to kill Ozai. I just wanted to see him deal with it before the last minute. I think the show would've been better for it, and Aang would've been a more interesting character.

[azulas-daddy-kink]

Ozai headcanon dump!

Ilah died in childbirth with Ozai, and Azulon and Iroh irrationally blamed him for it - she had told the doctors to save her baby at all costs, and he was cut out of her.

Ozai actually really looked up to Iroh when he was little but started to become disillusioned when he found out he had "killed" the last two dragons. He'd wanted to see a dragon more than anything. Even as an adult, he secretly hopes to find one.

So no, Ozai didn't love Ursa (like some of you Urzai shippers think) but regardless, he wanted her to love him. In the beginning, he really did try to make her fall in love with him. He became angry, spiteful, and abusive once he realized it was never going to happen.

When Ozai was a young teen, he was molested by an older woman at court. (He doesn't see it that way though ofc).

Ozai named Azula himself, and he was the first one to hold her after she was swaddled.

Ozai is fully convinced that at some point, Iroh slept with his wife... in reality, that never happened.

Shortly after finding out they were pregnant, Ursa tried to abort Azula. Luckily Ozai was there in time to stop their baby from being harmed. He then had Ursa confined to their chambers for the duration of her pregnancy, under guard 24/7. This also ties into my headcanon that Azula was conceived as the result of several particularly brutal rapes.

In the back of his mind, Ozai always saw Zuko as a threat, a rival for power.

Ozai has several bastard children. He never legitimized any of them though, and none were added to the line of succession. He didn't want to threaten the position of his "true born" heirs.

As a child, Ozai himself was quiet and studious, and didn't have any friends.

Ozai's whole ego thing is a cope. He is actually deeply insecure and feels unlovable.

A big reason Ozai hated baby Zuko pretty much right away was that he was expecting a daughter. Like Iroh, he had a prophetic vision - his daughter burning cities in a blaze of blue.

Ozai truly believes that he is a good father. Everything he's ever done was for Zuko or Azula's own good. To make them strong, to make them better future leaders.

[princess-of-the-corner]

Also, I've been given conflicting reports as to how Zhao dies.

YouTubers keep complaining about Iroh murdering him, while TV Tropes claims that Zuko does it by using Zhao's own fire whip to yeet him into a frozen river at the North Pole.

Given that they COMPLETELY changed up Zhao's role in the Fire Nation (he's a glory-seeking no-name who ends up becoming so full of himself that he decides he'll overthrow Ozai and make HIMSELF Fire Lord after he conquers the Northern Water Tribe), neither option really makes much sense on a thematic level. Like, he's so lowly ranked that Zuko, the EXILE, doesn't even show him any respect in their first on screen interaction.

Which I feel kinda makes Zuko LESS sympathetic, given that the entire reason Zhao exists is to constantly put Zuko down and make him more sympathetic in comparison.

(Zhao getting an inflated ego and thinking he can dethrone Ozai after killing the Moon Spirit is a nice touch, though.)

You know this kinda actually swings back to what I was saying on the undermined the propaganda thing a few asks ago? Because yeah in original Canon, Zhao may have a hell of an ego and think he'll be greatly rewarded and given titles like 'Moon Slayer' or whatever and go down in history as incredibly important. But he never really ever thinks of overthrowing Ozai.

Like. It's in character for him to think he'd be so good as to take over as Fire Lord because of his ego. But he never does? He just thinks the Fire Lord will reward him. Which really does kinda hammer in how Above the Fire Lord is supposed to be to people.

But also! Like!

This does undermine some of Zhao as a threat to have him be very no-name insignificant? Like. In the original canon, he was incredibly competent and good at what he did. He might be an arrogant egocentric dick, but he could put his money where his mouth was. He still failed on occasion because of his hubris and his temper, which was ultimately his downfall.

And his death in the original series fit that. An Admiral who did not respect the Ocean and was quite literally taken out by it, and denied any help.

Like seriously on that last note it's a defining moment for Zuko's character in the original series of like. For all that Zhao did, Zuko still tries to save him.

[sokkastyles]

Had a conversation with some friends recently about whether or not Zuko's redemption was inevitable, and am curious about your thoughts on it.

Like, if Zuko had been never been banished, or if he had actually successfully returned with the avatar early into his banishment, would his kind heart still eventually force him to confront the evil in his nation?

Opinions from our discussion included "yes, even as a young child he was disturbed by the violence and cruelty he was surrounded with, so obviously he'd eventually do something about it" to "no, he idolized his father and would have eventually killed his own kindness to try to live up to expectations" to "he'd try to be a kind ruler when he inherited, but wouldn't ever see the problem with imperialism," and like half a dozen more.

All of these are possibilities, although it also depends on what changes from canon. Remember that the reason Zuko was banished was because he spoke up against the cruelty he saw around him, so it's hard to imagine a Zuko who would have never spoken up, even over love of his father. Zuko in canon didn't even realize he had spoken against his father because he was naive enough to think his father would agree with what he knew was the right thing to do. One of the differences between Zuko and Azula, I think, is that Azula is able to realize at a younger age that her father was a cruel person and to please him, she also had to be cruel. Zuko thinks his father is good, and so thinks he's defending his nation when he speaks out.

I think a Zuko who is able to ignore what he knows is right to please his father is older and more aware that what is happening is wrong, but more able to compartmentalize. Zuko when he goes back to Ozai in book three could have become this, but by that time I think he's already too far gone to truly go back to the FN.

The "trying to be a good imperialist" is something that I think the show addresses in book two when Zuko imagines himself as firelord without the scar, wavering between the dragon with Azula's voice encouraging him to ignore everything and the dragon with Iroh's voice warning him to pay attention to the danger. I think this is Zuko's own subconscious showing him a possible future where he tries to be a kind ruler working within the FN regime, but the dream ends in everything falling to ruin, showing Zuko's awareness that this would not be a good future. There's a parallel there with King Kuei being ignorant of the corruption in his own country.

I think though that when people talk about this they often ignore another future, because they forget that Zuko's conflict with Ozai isn't just about his good heart. I do think Ozai's resentment of Zuko is related, obviously Zuko's kindness is another sign to Ozai that he is weak. But it's also less about what Zuko does and more about how Ozai sees his children. Parents like that don't really see their children as people, just roles to fill for the parent's own fulfillment. Ozai chose Zuko as his scapegoat so I think whatever Zuko did would have been something Ozai saw fault in, even if Zuko tried his hardest to be the most ruthless version of himself he could be.

What I'm getting at is that if it wasn't the 41st regiment that caused Ozai to hurt Zuko it would have been something else, even if Zuko chose to ignore his conscience. It might have been his bending, it might have been literally anything that made Ozai decide to punish Zuko, because it's not about what Zuko did, it's about Ozai having a psychological need to control and humiliate and hurt Zuko. And a parent who does that once to a child is likely to do it again, and the first time was bad enough.

So like, the other possibility if Zuko never was banished and never defected is that Ozai actually kills him.

[ultraericthered]

The most laughable claim about this I ever heard was the idea that Aang energybending Ozai was something the writers had to hastily think up for the sake of "keeping it a kids' show", as though if it had NOT been a "kids' show", the story would end with Aang having to kill Ozai, and if they weren't going to do that then they shouldn't raise the ethical dilemma of to kill or not kill at all. Uh, for one thing, the very fact that this show is set during a war and death is a constantly acknowledged reality in it AND we've seen characters like Yue, Zhao, Professor Zei (though unconfirmed until LoK), Jet, Combustion Man, and a bunch of backstory characters dying, makes it highly unlikely that the main villain dying at the main hero's hand was a taboo. And moreover, the solution of Aang taking away Ozai's bending was later proven to have been the endgame plan since the series bible was concieved. Not because "bad guys can't be killed" or "if you kill him you will become just like him" or "there's still good in him, so his life matters and should be spared" or whatever, but because it's paramount to Aang's character arc that he, still a 12 year old child, not lose his own human self to his duties as the Avatar like he feared he'd have to when he ran away from home in the fucking first place.

Also, the ancient Lion Turtle and the energybending solution weren't even a total Ass Pull - it's meant to be a physical manifistation of Nirvana. After much meditation, Aang was resigned to getting the job done by taking Ozai's life, then something else came to him. Literally.

14 years and y'all still don't get why aang didn't kill ozai this is genuinely embarrassing might as well just admit that you paid 0 attention while watching the show

[coreofgold]

Was that [CHEN FEIYU]? Oh no no, that was just [LU TEN], a [CANON CHARACTER] from [AVATAR THE LAST AIRBENDER]. They are [TWENTY ] years old, use [HE/HIM], and [ARE] aware that they are not actually from Washington DC. Too bad they can’t stray from this city for long.

How long has your character been here Lu Ten has been here for around a year

What is your character’s job He's a soldier on Special Forces but while he's not deployed he's a college student studying politics but he really wants to be an artist

Where has your character been pulled from in their fandom His death

Has any magic affected your character The biggest thing is that he was brought back to life ! Other than that. . .not much really

And any other information you might find useful for us and the other members to know!! Wiki Here Wiki 2 Here Birthday: September 29 (When Tales of Ba Sing Se aired) Siblings: none but has Zuko and Azula as cousins Zodiac: Libra Species: human Eye Color: Brown Hair Color: Black

Scars: chronic chest pain from where he was fatally wounded, various scars and wounds from the 600 day siege of Ba Sing Se

Personality: intelligent, loyal, jovial, kind, critical of himself, perfectionist, idealistic, protective, altruistic, passionate, determined, tactful, expert tactician, sensitive, artsy

Romantic Orientation: bisexual but male leaning

Sexual Orientation: bisexual but male leaning

Headcanons 1. Was and is very close with his father and gets his love of tea and to a lesser extent, the art side of him from his father because he nudged him to do something peaceful 2. Is a flirt like his father and is bisexual, though he's more male leaning and sometimes thinks he's gay and just flirts with women to cover it up. He knows how the Fire Nation and their laws are so he's kept that part very hidden. . .but is willing to come out to Iroh. Regardless of the flirting, he never really felt any sort of connection with those he flirted with (which made him think he might be gay because he feels the start of it with the men he'd teasingly flirt with) 3. Loves his cousins but knows they can be crazy so he's really the normal one out of them. Since he has no siblings, his cousins are pretty much like siblings to him so he loves them so much. 4. Is also very close with Azulon and would love to speak to him at all hours of the night, just to bond and talk with him. SO really he had a happy and. . .sort of dysfunctional but pretty much normal childhood (though it did hurt when he realized at a young age that his uncle Ozai hated him and didn't like him, but he's family so he grinned and bared it since it wasn't outwardly) 5. He died when he was twenty ( a few years older than Zuko) and he died protecting one of other soldiers from an attack. I also think at first he was taken as prisoner but managed to escape 6. Yes he probably would be imperialist like the Fire Nation normally is and would go crazy, but since he was young when he died, I like to think he's not as blood thirsty. He rather not fight but fighting is the only thing he can do until he becomes Fire Lord and can lead differently and with less fighting; But since he knows right now there's a goal at the end, he chooses to fight (though when he first fought and killed someone he got sick). He doesn't have the heart or stomach for killing but. . .it's what expected so as long as he thinks that in the end it will be for a purpose then it keeps him going enough. He even tries just to harm them instead of murder, but with war you never know. 7. Sword fighting was a challenge to learn and he would get frustrated when he failed, he'd never give up on it and would love to find new ways to learn and get better so. . .he's decent in weaponry; He really prefers using fire bending and used to abuse it by using it on everything. Needed to heat up the tea ? Fire bending. Wanted to tease his cousins ? Fire bending. Was cold ? Fire bending. He truly was on par with Azula 8. Loves to paint and read up on history. Those were good things when to unwind when he'd get frustrated on how his lessons were going or when he wanted to be alone. He was always interested in history and the law since it was ingrained by his family. Art came to him when he decided to travel around the Fire Nation as part of his studies. 9. I don't know if I will incorporate this but he definitely will have some type of PTSD and trauma response from the war. Not sure what it will manifest as or if I will go through with it as to not offend but he definitely was affected by the war in some way

[stardust948]

In any of your fandoms what character(s) do you think deserved better? What should have happened instead?

Oh boy this is gonna be a long one.

Aang and Katara from Avatar the Last Airbender.

Aang should have gotten a growth arc. He should have been given the opportunity to mourn the genocide of the Air Nomads and learn how to let go of his attachment to Katara. Book 2 hinted at that but Book 3 completely reconned it.

My rewrite for Aang is that Sozin's Comet mirrors The Crossroads of Density. Ozai doesn't blast him with lighting right away. Aang still covers himself with rocks as Ozai attacks. There, Aang lets go of Katara and goes into the Avatar State. This is when Ozai shoots lighting at him. But unlike COD, Aang redirects the lighting. He still spares Ozai and the rest of the fight plays out like in cannon. The finale balcony Kata*ng kiss is replaced with Aang apologizing to Katara for his mistreatment of her. Katara forgives him and says she meant it when she said they would be Aang's family. They embrace and the rest of the Gaang come onto the balcony and join the hug. This would mirror the group hug at the end of the first episode of Book 3, thus coming full cycle.

Also, Katara from Avatar the Last Airbender deserved to have her trauma treated seriously and not shoved aside to become a trophy girlfriend/wife.

I would mainly have Katara and Sokka talk things out after the events of The Southern Raiders. They would realize that grief is different for each person and that's okay. Also, I would have someone stand up for Katara during The Ember Island Players. She was clearly disturbed by her portrayal and instead of her friends understanding or sympathizing with her, they agreed with the play. In fact, I would change the whole tone of the EIP episode by having it focus on propaganda and stereotypes. I would also have Zutara crumbs, but they won't confirm anything at the end of the series. I think the ending works better with a group hug.

2. Azula from Avatar the Last Airbender comics

They did her so dirty in the comics. They turned her into a literal psychopath who hallucinates and has to be restrained. To make matters worse, they replace her with a random half-sister who is perfect in every way.

I'm not sure how to fix this without rewriting the entire ATLA comics story, but the gist of it would be Azula working through her trauma and coming to terms with it.

3. Starscream and Knockout from Transformers Prime.

For most of the series, Starscream had been straight up abused by Megatron, Leader of the Decepticons. So when Starscream decided he'd had enough and left, I was rooting for him. He went rouge for a couple of episodes and was a threat to both the Autobots and Decepticons. But then he returned to Megatron??? And pledged his loyalty??? Then mourned his death??????

That made no sense! When Starscream returned to Megatron, I honestly thought he was going to try to dethrone him again but he just submitted. Last time he did that, Megatron tried to kill him in cold blood.

Hated it. Hated it. Hated it. Toxic relationship all day long.

Starscream should have stayed rouge for the entire series. That was when he was at his peak.

Knockout was the Decepticon's medic who joined the Autobots at the end of the show. I love Knockout. I loved that he switched sides. But I hate how they did it. It was so shoehorned. The Autobots had the upper hand and Knockout joined them to avoid going to prison. And they let him no questions asked despite all the trauma he caused them.

I would have had KO questioning his loyalties throughout the show. KO is treated like trash by Megatron (though not half as bad as Starscream) and is constantly looked over. The death of his lab assistant and friend, Breakdown, would have impacted him more especially since Megatron merely brushed it off. Starscream leaving also would have affected him. The final straw for Knockout would be when Dreadwing is murdered.

In the show, Dreadwing questions the honor of the Decepticons and they hint at him joining the Autobots. But he seeks out Starscream for revenge of the death of his twin brother and Megatron kills him. In this rewrite, Dreadwing shares his thoughts of honor with Knockout. He too is upset by the treatment of Breakdown's death because he was with him when he was murdered. Knockout is hesitant but Dreadwing has made up his mind about switching sides. When he goes to talk to Optimus Prime, leader of the Autobots, this is when Megatron kills him. Left alone with Megatron's abuse, Knockout is essentially locked in the ship. Later when Ratchet, the Autobot's medic, is kidnapped and forced to work for the Decepticons, he helps him escape. Ratchet notices KO's change and invites him to come along. KO finally takes the chance and switch sides for good. He proves his sincerity by exposing Megatron's Earth terraforming plans to the Bots.

4. Lotor and Allura from Voltron: Legendary Defenders

Lotor was basically Space Zuko. He hunted down team Voltron in the beginning but later joined them to stop his dictator father. It was also revealed that the father (I forgot his name) abused Lotor and forced him into villainy.

But then, the writers decided to recon all of that by saying Lotor was secretly using Team Voltron and draining the life form from a race of people thought to be wiped out by his father (that his is half of mind you). Team Voltron readily believes this despite fighting beside him for seemingly months and banish him to a different dimension where he MELTED. They actually showed his melted corpse!!! To make matters worse, they gave Haggar, his mother, a redemption! She abandoned Lotor as a child, sat by and watched his father abuse him, tried to destroy the multiverse, and only got a slap on the wrist!!!!

Honestly, I would have ended the show after Lotor and Team Voltron team up to stop the dictator. Maybe have them fight Haggar too? But Lotor definitely would have been part of the team and help rebuild the universe and marry Princess Allura.

Princess Allura pretty much brought the team together and was the heart of Voltron. She was killed off at the end to restore the universes Haggar destroyed. I'm not sure how it went down because I stopped watching the show after Season 7 but from what I read, it didn't make sense. They also forced Allura together with Lance who she has had no interest in beforehand.

I would have the Voltron lions sacrifice themselves to restore the universe. It would symbolize that their work is done and are no longer needed. Allura lives and continues to explore and help rebuild with her friends and marries Lotor.

5. Mikasa from Attack on Titan

I love Mikasa. And I love Eren x Mikasa. But I do not like how it was handled. Without getting into spoilers, Mikasa evolved her entire life around Eren despite the warnings of living solely for others that are placed throughout the manga/show.

I would have had Mikasa discover that she can love Eren but also live for herself. That it's okay to be a little selfish. She learns how to enjoy life and live to the fullest despite all the heartache and pain. In a sense, she fulfills Eren's dream of being free.

6. Chole from Miraculous Ladybug

Chole was the typical mean girl bullying the protagonist Marinette. It was later revealed that her actions stem from the emotional abuse she receives from her mother. The show flirted with the idea of giving Chole a redemption arc but then reconned it so hard and replaced her with her random half-sister. (What is it with half-sister clones?)

I would rewrite it by Chole not revealing her superhero identity to the public for fame. She does try to milk the position but gradually learns how to become a better person with the help of Ladybug and Team Miraculous.

7. Glitter from Hooves of Death

This is a webtoon about a ragtag team of unicorns and other mythical creatures trying to stop the zombie apocalypse. It's pretty good except for the weird love triangle between Sprinkles, Glitter, and Blaze. Sprinkles acts more like a father figure to Glitter, and Blaze is a freaking incel.

Glitter has made it clear, time and time again, that she's not interested in romance because they're in the middle of a zombie apocalypse. Sprinkles had the decency to respect that, but Blaze kept pushing. He sulked and acted petty literally half of the series because Glitter wasn't responding the way he wanted. In one of the recent updates, Sprinkles is comforting Glitter because she has some heavy decisions to make and Blazes yells at them then storms off. So then Glitter goes after him and he yells about caring for her so much, but she never notices him. Typical Nice Guy TM stuff. Then Glitter apologizes to him and agrees to date after the apocalypse.

Um what?

I was so close to dropping the webtoon. Honestly. That was disgusting.

I would rewrite Hooves of Death by having Sprinkles, Glitter, and Blaze act as a found family with Sprinkles as the dad and the others as siblings. This is because at the beginning of the apocalypse, Glitter lost her entire family to the zombies. In this rewrite, she's hesitant to get close to anyone again in fear of losing them but warms up to them over time. I know it's cliche, but it's loads better than this gross love triangle.

Thanks for the ask ❤

[indigo--montoya]

1 and 10?

Hi, thanks for the ask!!

What OTPs in your fandom(s) do you just not get?*

All of them? The concept of OTPs in general? Idk I'm a multishipper

So far as popular ships go, though, there's a couple I don't really get. The one I least understand is zukka. Literally where did its huge popularity come from, if you want to ship two guys (which so far as I can tell is one of the main draws?) then, well, both sokkaang and jetko have more canon basis. Is this partly just me being salty that two ships I love that have actual canon grounding are ignored most of the time (one more so than the other) in favor of something that is pretty much a crackship? noooo (yes)

10. Most disliked arc? Why?

This part got long enough that I decided to put it under a cut.

Hmm ok, so this is a hard one. There's a few arcs I have significant issues with. The one I think I dislike most strongly is Aang's arc, though. Like, they had most of an amazing growing up arc (emotional dependence to emotional independence, it could have been so cool) all done, and then just. Completely flubbed the ending!

They started setting it up in the very first episode, when Aang sees Katara and forms an instantaneous attachment. All through Book 1 it stays a healthy relationship, where they get closer and make mistakes and work through them. There's foreshadowing for what will come later, but for now it's a good, healthy friendship.

Then in Book 2, we get the first real signs of trouble. We're shown in The Avatar State that Aang's emotional dependence on Katara has grown- he'd needed her support before, for instance when he saw his mentor's corpse, that was a completely reasonable time for him to rely on her. But here she doubtless needed more support than he did since she'd just been buried alive, and had to turn right around and calm him down instead. As Book 2 progresses, this is not addressed, and his emotional dependence on her only grows.

At the end of Book 2 is another key moment in this arc, where he's forced to begin to confront the fact that he feels like he needs Katara specifically for emotional support, as opposed to friendships in general. Book 3 doesn't do as well with this arc (hardly surprising, given what Book 3 was like in general), but there's still enough support for this arc that it feels like they could have stuck the landing with a few tweaks.

But by the end, nothing is actually resolved here, at least not in a way that makes sense. We see Aang so close to a good end to this arc at the beginning of the canon finale, and then at the very end we see an Aang who seems like he could almost be the one at the end of this arc, but there's no character development in between, just a bunch of glowing. GLOWING IS NOT CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!!!

What really gets me here is how easy it would have been to make this an absolutely beautiful character arc, just by changing some of the details.

Change the focus from shipping to buildup for Aang learning not to use Katara as an emotional crutch, take away the kisses (especially if you want ka to be endgame), either remove Ember Island Players or completely rewrite it.

Show Aang realizing Katara isn't the perfect angel he built her up as in his head, show him beginning to accept that (the episode with Hama could be a great place to start this part, TSR is another good place to work on this stuff).

Keep him running away right before Sozin's comet, but for goodness sake give him some agency in it instead of having a lion turtle come by and hypnotize him. Have him choose to leave, with the intent to come back and fight Ozai, even kill him if he has to, but he's damn well going to try everything besides killing him first. So he waterbends his way out to a sandbar, bends himself a tiny island, and starts meditating.

He doesn't get quite the same answers from the past Avatars in this- I'm thinking Yangchen probably encourages him to look for an alternate solution, but reminds him to do what is necessary, even kill if he has to. He ends up using meditation to unblock his chakras, on a very visible time crunch because he headed to the coast of the Earth Kingdom to be sure he'd be there when Ozai arrived.

He's in the Avatar State during the fight, and in control, but it's not just ~magical glowing that does everything for him~ he has to actually fight. It's the hardest fight of his life so far- Ozai is powerful, and he's inexperienced. He's struggling, trying to hold Ozai off without killing or significantly injuring him, hoping against hope he won't have to use lethal force. Maybe at one point he hits Ozai hard enough to stun him and almost has a breakdown but then Ozai gets up.

Anyway, how the fight ends is he knocks Ozai to the ground and traps him like General Fong trapped Katara, all the way back at the start of Book 2. He doesn't use energybending and he doesn't need to, because with a little creativity (and embracing earthbending) he finds a nonviolent solution that we already knew was a thing that could happen. This should have been canon fight me

Oh and then if you're doing the ka version, instead of a kiss at the end Katara and Aang have a really sweet heart-to-heart where they both agree they're not ready for a romantic relationship yet, even though they both have feelings for each other they need more stability first and want their friendship to be a constant in a quickly-changing world. Because their friendship means the world to them.

End on a hopeful note with them holding hands, and boom! You've turned ka into something I actually like! Heck, you get the details right and you just turned ka into a ship I think about and write about and care about to a degree most would consider excessive!!

[lightdancer1]

A pair of scenes from the Age Reversal AU. First scene:

Azula went to talk to her uncle after that sleepless night with a face that had a trained mask of calmness. At times it felt odd to have learned that from a child so much younger, but Mai had shown her a few things that helped her wield those masks to hide. She'd worked hard to get Mai to know she didn't have to do that all the time and it had worked. There were, all the same, times where it was useful.

"Uncle," she said and bowed respectfully as he sat at his tea set. He gestured for her to take a seat and he did.

She liked the tea ceremony as a moment of peace and it was why she was able to bond with him. Zuzu didn't have the patience even if he was that much younger, though Jiren wasn't that much younger than she was and she didn't really have that patience either.

"Uncle," she said quietly, "why should I be angrier at Zuzu for his words and not my grandfather, who actually sent me to war and had poor Zhi executed for the crime of.....experimenting with me?"

Iroh paused and looked at her as if he'd never seen her before.

"That...." he paused and then put the teacup down.

"That is an excellent point, my dear niece. The first thing I would say there is that my father is dead. Of 'stroke', or so I was told. I suspect it was a herbalist-induced stroke, a thing that one can hardly bear."

Azula raised an eyebrow.

But she did not take the bait.

"Be that as it may, he was the one that gave the order. My brother was six, Uncle. I may be angry with him for that. I am. I have been. I probably always will be. I was normal, once. Now I react like an old soldier."

Iroh leaned back for a moment.

"My dear niece," he said apologetically, "anyone who survived a year or two of the Siege is an old soldier no matter how long they served. All war is horrifying, the Siege means I unfortunately took new horrors much further than anyone before me had ever dared to take them. I am not proud of that. You should be proud that you did survive."

He grimaced. "Far too many people did not."

And then shook his head.

"My father reaped precisely what he sowed for himself, at least partially. I suspect if I asked Ursa why she disappeared that she would tell me that. I would not welcome hearing it, and she and I are unlikely to be welcome in each other's company as long as the spirits permit us to live, but it's the small elements of life that can't be helped." He shrugged.

"So my answer to that would be that Azulon is dead. Zuko, however...."

He shrugged somewhat lightly.

"Ozai does dote on the boy so and as I've mentioned before he has that sickness. The same one your cousin does. Willful violence, inability to see or to accept that he hurts others and that hurting others is wrong. A callousness far beyond anything normal and what gets called normal can be appalling enough.

Zuko is also and has always been a dutiful son."

He shrugged even more lightly.

"Given time by Ozai to mold the boy, I don't doubt that he could incite in him a fearsome hatred and envy."

Azula's eyes narrowed.

"He's already shown himself enough of a son of Ozai to get an innocent girl killed by saying the right words at the right time."

In years to come Azula wished she would have responded to that by standing up in a glowering rage and storming out of the room. She would find regret and shame that a new kind of rage boiled into being but outwardly she kept a face much like Mai's and said nothing, losing herself in the tea ceremony.

She listened to Iroh's statements further with a half-focused mentality. He wanted her to fight Zuzu, that much was apparent to her. The more passionately he spoke about Ozai, the more she wished to say what she one day would, asking him why he refused to fight the brother that actually did him harm and wanted her to do what he would not do himself.

It was an intensity she simply wasn't prepared to deal with and an older, wiser her (even if the gap would be merely a few months after an improbable event happened in all truth) would have had far more questions than not about it. Then, alone besides Iroh, herself, Jiren, and Kenpachiro on a ship that was meant to keep her out of the Fire Nation in an exile, if temporary, in all but name for at least a year or more.......

It was a weakness to want familiarity, even wrapped in the revelation that some people hid very dangerous things behind masks of their own. And in the end Uncle may have had his own reasons for noting it but he was not, in fact, wrong that she had that deep rage at everything that had happened then.

What she could not do, even with these words, was forget that Zuko had been a child. He was, in many ways, as much her son as Ursa's by now. He had felt safe around her in a way he never did around Father. They were able to see more of each other's true selves. He might be around her age when she was sent to war but that only underscored the point. She was thirteen and she had been very sure about some things and horrifically wrong about many of them. Even if Zuko did want Father's love, how was that wrong?

She could talk to him, try to prevent what Iroh wanted her to do. How could she look at the world now and do to someone else what she had been so damaged by when it was done to her? She could cling to anger and resentment, yes. But.....each time she thought about the full implications of his ideas, facing her little brother with hate in her heart and blue fires blazing against his crimson a part of her recoiled. Even if he wanted her dead, she didn't think she could do it.

He was her brother over anything else. She hoped if and when they did meet again that it would end up meaning as much to him as it did to her.

[the-messenger-hawk]

Hakozai for that ask game

proposes - Ozai; he demands a certain level of pomp and drama in his arrangements (as long as it remains his responsibility)

shops for groceries - Hakoda is the only one who ever remembers to keep up with groceries anyway. (Ozai once had people who kept up with that, no more.)

kills the spiders - Both. Hopefully Hakoda gets to it first; he'd prefer less soot in his home thx.

comes home drunk at 3am - Neither. Ozai usually daydrinks if he feels the need to do so, and Hakoda has the tolerance of a tank.

remembers to feed the fish - Both actually. Yes Hakoda does find this surprising.

initiates duets - Neither; Ozai refuses and Hakoda can't hold a note for shit.

falls asleep first - Usually Hakoda given that he doesn't bother with evening training, unlike some people.

plans spontaneous trips - Hakoda is one for spontaneity, always has been.

wakes the other up at 3am demanding pancakes - Not really either. Hakoda will wake up fairly early to make a plate of bacon. This usually wakes up Ozai.

sends the other unsolicited nudes - Neither. Ozai's too good for that, and he has to "earn" the right to see the Chief exposed.

brags about knowing karate even though they never made it past yellow belt - Neither. Both of them can kick ass actually.

comes to a complete halt outside bakeries/candy shops - Hakoda has a sweet tooth even if he doesn't mention it, Ozai groans and starts to reach for his wallet without being asked.

blows sarcastic kisses after doing ridiculous shit - The oh-so-serious Chief Hakoda does this all the time, sometimes just to annoy Ozai

killed the guy (also, which hid the body) - Both of them are capable of murder (Hakoda just needs more motivation), but Ozai needs clearance for that these days.

wears the least clothing around the house - Subversion; Ozai's pretty covered up most of the time, until he starts training and shucks off most of it. Hakoda generally keeps his clothes on during the day, but he tends to show his chest off a lot--and those two guns amiright??

has icky sentimental moments for no apparent reason -Hakoda, usually when he's sleep-deprived.

[a-master-procrastinator]

Long ass post about the Eternal family not being a copy-paste from ATLA (aka I like the memes but my god can you please stop)

Because some people truly think that Vaylin is off-brand Azula, Arcann is Zuko and so on.

It's. Called. A. Trope. (I mean how often do we come across abusive manipulative fathers in media? Mothers who couldn't much to change anything? Children, desperately looking for their parent's approval no matter what?)

Of course, you have to consider the fact that the writing of ATLA is simply better than of KotFE/ET, so this might have been one of the reasons why people say that.

Spoilers for Avatar: The Last Airbender, Knights of the Fallen Empire and Knights of the Eternal Throne expansions!

Okay, so here's my unprofessional, maybe biased, not super deep take.

(not going to mention that all of them are members of royal, ruling family, kinda obvious)

What roles do they play in their stories? Well, both Valkorion and Ozai are main antagonists, but their presence throughout the story is very different. Ozai is rarely shown in first two seasons, we don't even see his face until season 3. He doesn't have a direct connection to the protagonist, they only meet at the very end of the show, and Ozai's role is to pose a threat to the world, while Aang's is to save it. Valkorion, on the other hand, is constantly on the screen, interacting with the main character, challenging their viewpoint and influencing them directly. His end goal is similar to Ozai's (destroy everything and be the only ruler of the his nation), but with one major difference - he's trapped in Outlander's mind, so to achieve his goal Valkorion attempts to take control of the main character. Their interactions play important role in the story, and we spend a lot of time with Valkorion.

In addition to that, their relationship with children are also not exactly the same. It seems like Azula is Ozai's favorite and Zuko is a failure in his eyes until he meets his expectations, and the same goes with Vaylin, Arcann and Valkorion, right? Well, partially. Indeed, Valkorion and Ozai's treat their sons in similar ways (are disappointed in them until they meet their expectation by doing something that goes against their morals), but when it comes to Vaylin and Azula, it's not that easy. See, Valkorion claims that Vaylin was always his favorite creation (even though we know it's actually his empire), and he certainly seems to take pride in her potential in the Force. But her power is the very reason he's afraid of his own daughter, and in this fear Valkorion literally locks Vaylin away and allows to put her through physical and mental torture just to make sure she won't become a threat, won't overpower him. Maybe he thought of her better than of Arcann, but she wasn't his favored child for sure. I don't want to say that Azula hasn't experienced abuse from Ozai, but for the most part he clearly favored her over Zuko. He has never shown fear of Azula's power and abilities (or at least I haven't noticed), quite the opposite - allowed her to do a lot, as long as she brings results.

I could also mention their slightly different characterization (mostly that we get more characterization of Valkorion, get to learn his motivations, views, philosophy and all that, also he's portrayed as more nuanced, even if he not really is) and role in their respective governments (ozai is one of many Fire Lords and arguably not the greatest, while Valkorion is a god to citizens of Zakuul, their only Immortal Emperor), but those are details, and I think you get the point.

What's similar: role of the main antagonist, manipulative and abusive father, goal of destruction of everything that isn't their nation/empire, relationship with disgraced son.

What's different: presence in the overall narrative, relationship with the main character, relationship with daughter, role in their societies.

Senya and Ursa are even less similar. Yes, they both are mothers who love their children, but have to leave them, but these are probably the only things they have in common. Just as with Ozai and Valkorion's presence throughout the story, Ursa is only shown in flashbacks (for obvious reasons), and Senya is one of major characters in KotFE and (a bit less major) in KotET. Ursa leaves because she has to kill Azulon in order to save Zuko, and later isn't present in the story (I'm aware that her fate is told in comics, but we aren't talking about it). Senya leaves because when she tries to take children with her, they refuse, and she understands that she can't force them to, nor she can help them to break free from Valkorion's manipulations. For a long time she's absent from Arcann ad Vaylin's lives, but at the time of game events she attempts to save her children and stop the madness and destruction they've caused, and it isn't a small part of the story.

I also want to add that their relationship with Ozai and Valkorion are also different, but can't say much about Ursa. I heard that she didn't choose this marriage and suffered emotional (and maybe physical???) abuse from Ozai. I can say with confidence, though, that Senya genuinely loved Valkorion, and strangely enough, he seems to at very least respect her. But, of course, this wasn't the best marriage either.

Plus, we see more of Senya's relationship with Vaylin than Arcann or Thexan, but with Ursa we see her more with Zuko than Azula. Just a detail to remember.

(also Senya is simply a better character but that besides the point, moving on. in this house we stand Senya)

What's similar: role of loving and caring mother, abandoning their family at some point.

What's different: presence in the overall narrative, relationship with husband, characterization in general.

Boy, where do I even begin. Vaylin and Azula are similar in that they are both extremely powerful (one is firebending prodigy, the other is potentially stronger than Valkorion), both are cruel "craaaaazy" (i hate that cliché), both are younger sisters, have serious mother issues (seemingly more so than father issues), both go through betrayal of people they could always rely on, which eventually leads to their downfall. But when I took a look at their personal arcs, it became clear that they aren't the same (unfortunately, Vaylin's arc is very rushed and underdeveloped, but we'll have to go with what we have and my personal view, sorry).

There's a really good video about writing corruption and madness, and I'm going to base my thoughts on it. To summarise it: a good corruption arc should have 4 components:

- the character has a specific goal (or a goal and subgoals);

- in pursuit of said goal they become the cause of a significant event that brings serious consequences;

- as the result of these consequences, character abandons their morals, ideals or a code in pursuit of goal;

- character either will not achieve their goal or will succeed, but it won't be enough to satisfy them.

And then the author brings Azula's arc as one of the best examples of compelling story of corruption (so basically, she represents it perfectly). In short, Azula's main goals are perfection and control, and subgoals help achieve the main ones. In pursuit of these goals, Azula causes Mai and Ty Lee to betray her (by pushing them too far to do something they wouldn't do), which then causes her to become paranoid, which makes her to attempt controlling everything and everyone around her, *breathes* which makes her lose control over herself and ....

Now, I thought if Vaylin's arc could fit into a corruption one, and next part will be based a lot on my assumptions and personal view of her character (plus rushed writing doesn't help), but I think yes (or at least mostly). The difference is in goals, ideals and details.

While the story strongly makes us think that Vaylin's goal is freedom (or control over her life and everything around her) or power and destruction, I think it's actually self-determination (which was said by Tenebrae in 6.2) and feeling safe. Let me explain (and here I thought this would be a short comparison). Sure, when Valkorion caged Vaylin on Nathema, he took choices and control over her life from his daughter. But let's not forget whom Vaylin blames for this (even more than Valkorion): her own mother, and I think this details tell us that the most important thing that Vaylin lost on Nathema is feeling safe. Then, after Arcann brought her home, I assume Vaylin still didn't feel safe enough under Valkorion's rule, still too afraid that he'd simply send her back to that hellish place.

It's when Valkorion is struck down Vaylin finally has a feeling of personal safety, even if she isn't the one on the throne. Why? Because back on Nathema there were two people who haven't turned on her - Arcann and Thexan (yes, this is also a huge assumption, bc the game states that only Thexan visited her, but it doesn't make much sense).

I've always noticed (and I'm not alone in this) that her behavior in Fallen Empire is different from the way she acted in Eternal Throne. Most likely bc of rushed writing, but I see a character driven reason here. In first of these expansions, Vaylin is the second person in power on Zakuul, and with Arcann being in charge, person she can trust more than any other living being, she feels safe - she can test her power, and now Valkorion won't prevent it, she can do pretty much everything she wishes, and the most Arcann will do about this is mildly complain (without blaming her). Really would be nice if we got to see any normal hobbies of Vaylin (like wasn't there something about books or art?), but I digress. She might have some questions about Arcann's tactics, but they get along just fine. The important thing to note is Vaylin not seeking to hunt the Outlander personally, to rule or conquer the rest of the galaxy, or trying to achieve absolute freedom or power. She's kinda there.

This, however, changes when Arcann doesn't allow Vaylin to kill Senya. Their relationship was getting somewhat worse towards the end of KotFE, but this is a turning event Vaylin caused by attempting to strike her mother. By saving the person Vaylin blames for all the trauma from sending her to Nathema, Arcann threatened her feeling of safety. And now Vaylin starts to believing that to achieve safety she now needs to kill people who hurt her (that's why she's so determined to find Senya and Arcann), take the throne and hunt down Outlander (she was manipulated by SCORPIO to these subgoals).

(The following is the weakest, I'll admit, but I hope I can at least express what I see). So, in trying to achieve goals she didn't want before Vaylin loses in self-determination, being either driven by overwhelming anger or manipulated by others (SCORPIO or Commander on Odessen), desperately trying to accomplish anything, or even goes against her morals (like by erasing GEMINI's free will protocols, when earlier she agreed that freedom to choose is important; or breaking the deal on Odessen). All of these result in her downfall.

But even this isn't the end. The key difference between arcs of Azula Vaylin lies in it's resolution, or that Vaylin have a chance to overcome corruption in the main narrative (and Azula doesn't. again, not including comics here, sorry). After death, Vaylin is again controlled by Valkorion in Outlander's mind. First time physically (she can't resist it), second time mentally. This is where Vaylin has to choose - kill brother who betrayed her and Commander who killed her, or go against Valkorion, person responsible for almost all of her pain and trauma. She has t choose by herself, and I think it's a good start.

Now, before 6.2 we all thought Vaylin was dead for good, but that story update hinted at possibility of her coming back to life. What I like to think is that now that she dealt with people responsible for her trauma (helped defeat Valkorion and actually for once listened to Senya), Vaylin can now have a different life, finding herself with support of someone she doesn't hold a grudge against and who treats her well (Satele, I mean).

I'm so sorry for going into details, but I needed this long explanation to present the point (and I suck at explanations). As said before, this is my version of her arc, and most likely wrong interpretation, but even with personal freedom of choice, Vaylin character differs from Azula a lot.

Need I mention that Vaylin relationship with Arcann and Valkorion are drastically different from those between Azula, Zuko and Ozai?

(Also a little detail - with royal family of Fire Nation, Azula is the golden child, while with Tiralls it's actually Thexan, not Vaylin).

What's similar: role of extremely powerful, emotionally damaged daughter with little to no regard towards others, close people betraying them, resulting in their downfall.

What's different: characterization, role in the narrative, relationship with father and brother.

Arcann and Zuko is the most difficult part, but I still believe that calling Arcann just a cheap copy of Zuko is incorrect.

So, they fall into role of less successful son, always getting disapproval from father, being in shadow of more talented sibling, both obsessed with capturing the main character but ending up helping them end the war after going through a redemption arc with help of caring family member. Even both have scars on left side of face. Yeah, seems similar. I still think they are different characters.

Let's start with their relationships with family. In Valkorion section I said that his attitude towards Arcann is similar to that of Ozai towards Zuko, so not going to spend too much time here. However, there's slight difference - Zuko didn't kill his father even he had a perfect opportunity (bc it wasn't his goal), Arcann did (bc it was one of his goals), which says something about their characterizations.

Zuko and Ursa were shown to have a good mother-son relationship, and it played a role in Zuko's character. With Arcann and Senya, we don't really know (not much was shown in expansions). We know Arcann didn't hate his mother, but possibly didn't have warm memories of her either. The reason is most likely, like Senya said, her children wanted nothing to do with her (which is a bit untrue about Vaylin, but okay) and leaned more towards Valkorion. We need to remember that on Zakuul Valkorion isn't just one of many great leaders, he's the greatest, and seen as a god by most citizens, so safe to assume the same would apply to his children as well.

Zuko and Azula's siblingship (i'm out of words) is a bit similar to Arcann and Vaylin's in way of brother knowing that his sister isn't good, but still caring about them (even if not showing). At least it's what I saw. What's different is how Azula treats Zuko, compared to how Vaylin treats Arcann. I think Azula showed compassion or concern for Zuko maybe twice, but I'm not entirely convinced that it was 100% sincere. Vaylin, on the other hand, seems to trust and care about Arcann (with bits of sass and questioning his life choices), and switching to complete opposite after him saving Senya. Also, I don't she ever called Arcann a failure in their father's eyes.

Now I want to say that their roles in stories aren't the same either. Sure, both are introduced to us as antagonists, but in reality, Zuko was never a true antagonist (we get to learn this somewhere mid-season 1), when Arcann remains the main antagonist for whole of KotFE. Zuko didn't start a war and didn't participate in conquest of other nations too much, his main goal was to capture the Avatar so to restore his honor (and deserve his father's forgiveness). Honestly, I think it's safe to say the Zuko is one of two main protagonists of ATLA. Why does Arcann want to capture the Outlander? Solely because his father's spirit still lives inside this person's mind, and the best solution to keep Valkorion away from the galaxy is not letting the Outlander free (hence the carbonite freezing). And Arcann doesn't want or need Valkorion's forgiveness when he attempts to kill him (or kills him, depending on your choice. anyway, his action directly leads to Valkorion's "death"). And right after that he becomes a ruler of Zakuul and begins the conquest of Republic, Sith Empire and everything he can reach (the reasoning behind this is still unclear to me though; maybe because he was raised with ruling Zakuul in mind and he didn't anything else, idk). Point is, he's responsible for war and main's character imprisonment, which makes him the main antagonist of KotFE. They have it the opposite ways - Zuko starts as disgraced prince, supported by a little group of people, and in the end he's recognized and appreciated by his nation, and Arcann starts as respected by his empire, later becoming less and less loved, until some groups start rebelling his rule, and in the end he doesn't get to rule Zakuul again.

This leads me to their morals. See, Zuko didn't have the worst morals in Fire Nation, even more, he expressed care for loyals soldiers of his nation before getting punished by Ozai. During first season (and about a half of second one) his views on other nations are what he was taught before. However, these views are challenged by travelling in Earth Kingdom, witnessing people suffering from war Fire Nation started and hating its people (you already know all of this), and with this he comes through final stage of redemption when he's back home. Unfortunately, Arcann doesn't go through this, and he's shown to be more ruthless.

Alright, when it comes to their redemption arcs, well let's say they are different (both in quality and the way they go through it), I'm just a bit tired of long explanations at this point. Zuko's arc is one of the best ever put on television, and Arcann's... well, it definitely has potential, but is criminally underdeveloped (there are other people who will explain it better than I ever could).

What's similar: role of disgraced son, living in shadow of their sibling, serious injuries on the left side of face (though with different meanings), obsession with capturing the main character, having a redemption arc.

What's different: role in the narrative, role in their society, characterization, relationship with sister and mother, different end goals (before redemption), paths to redemption.

[the-badger-mole]

Ms. Badger I am yelling I am screaming I just saw a take that melted my brain. Someone claimed that TSR is Zuko manipulating Katara into not hating him anymore by using the trauma of her mother's death and leading her into possibly being a murderer. And how she felt like she didn't have a choice but to hunt him down knowing he was out there. Like cndidjbfirn they act as though everyone who likes that episode thinks yon rah should've died (when I've mostly seen it being glad for her having the choice and needing to know and needing the closure of facing that trauma) and the Zuko was evil manipulative man by encouraging her to seek that catharsis (while it may or may not! Have helped him be in her good graces)(also I think they threw in Aang was right and we are all nasty zutara shippers for liking the ep even though yes I ship zutara and like the ep with that context but also love it for the Katara growth in it in general!!)

Please help me articulate why they are wrong I am just so confused as to how someone could see that ep and think "what a horrible person Zuko is for supporting Katara's very justifiable anger and wanting to not be iced out by her so helping her face that pain"

Well, first of all, Aang wasn't right. Katara herself said he wasn't. She got what she needed from that trip, and that at the end of the day is all that should matter. The problem there is that Bryke doesn't really care what Katara thinks, so the fact that she said with her own lips that Aang was wrong carries no weight with them, and by extension no weight with anyone who uses TSR as an example of why Zutara was bad.

Second of all, Zuko didn't force her into anything. He offered her the information and let her decide what to do with it. He had just gone through something similar with Ozai and didn't kill him, so there's no reason to assume he'd be encouraging Katara to kill Yon Rah. He knew how important it was to face the sorce of your trauma, and he offered the same chance to Katara (although, I don't for a second think he'd have judged her if she had killed the pathetic little weasel). If that hadn't worked to get him on her good side, he either would have tried something else, or given up on making direct amends. After all, Zuko (unlike someother people I could name) wouldn't have forced Katara into anything. He might have been frustrated, but he wouldn't have forced himself past Katara's boundaries. He knew to give Katara space to decide what to do, and he would have respected her decision if she decided not to find Yon Rha as readily as he respected her decision to find him.

In the end, I think he and Katara would have ended up as friends regardless. It might have taken longer, but I think Zuko's sincerity would have won her over in the end (also the fact that with Zuko, there was one other person around to be responsible with her). Katara and Zuko's reconciliation was inevitable, and from a plot standpoint, necessary to move the story forward. Their chemistry was too natural and too thematically relevant for them not to at least be friends before everything was over. Without Kataang, the story wouldn't change much (actually, without Aang, the story wouldn't really change much). But Katara and Zuko's relationship was not only necessary for each of their journies, it tied the themes of the show together. She was always going to forgive him. He was always going to do his best to earn her trust back. No force was necessary.

[princess-of-the-corner]

That but about Azula confronting Ozai has me curious about the Day of the Black Sun.

Okay okay okay I'm just. I'm gonna go over my notes for the whole ass episode so let's go!

This is mostly happening in Part 2 of the two-part episode but anyway!

The attack goes as they wanted, although thanks to Noriko having taken over Ba Sing Sae they knew in advance that there would be an attack so it isn't as much of a surprise.

But the Eclipse still happens and the Firebending goes out.

The Gaang knows that Ozai has to be /somewhere/ but they have no idea where. The Palace and its surrounding grounds are large, and that's before including underground or even nearby buildings.

So they split up in teams of two because, well. Sure the Avatars should be the ones to fight him, but really no one's gonna complain if anyone else kills the fucker right now.

Of course Aang and Ty Lee are the first group. And ofc nothing of interest happens with them.

Katara and Sokka are the second group, but when their father gets injured the two of them step up and lead the invasion troops in his place. They make a hell of a team together.

Mai and Toph pass by the dungeons and oh hey Iroh is escaping too! They're happy he's alive because tbh they had no idea if he was okay or not. They fight off the remaining guards together but Iroh is like 'Hey I'd love to come with you guys again, but in case things don't end today, I have something else set up so I need to go there instead'.

Suki and Jin get to run into Noriko. They get to chase her around the halls. She's mostly there to distract anyone who came looking for Ozai, and is just stalling until the Eclipse is over and for the guards to get their shit together.

Naturally, Zuko and Azula are the ones who actually find Ozai. And while they should just kill him, Ozai is a manipulative fucker who knows how to keep them talking.

The initial conversation between Ozai and Zuko is very much like Canon. Ozai calling him a failure, saying that he was 'only trying to be a good parent' and 'teach respect'. Zuko calls that out for the bullshit it is. It was cruel and horrific and no one, especially not a child, should go through that. And that whatever he was attempting to make Zuko into, well, Zuko is fucking proud that he's not whatever that. He'd rather be the failure.

Since that didn't work, he turns his focus to Azula.

Telling her that he's 'oh so disappointed', that she 'let her brother drag her down'. He 'thought she was better than that'. He calls her weak for not sticking by him.

And Azula wants to scream at him. To prove that she's not weak. And in any other situation, she would. But this is her father. A man she's been terrified of her entire life. And right now, she can't Firebend. It makes her feel weak.

Ozai's final move is to make an offer. Azula can come back. Be Princess of the Fire Nation, be safe from all of this(be safe from him). It'd all be over.

All she has to do, is to kill Zuko.

For a moment, she hesitates. Because a childhood of doing everything in her power to please her father, to make sure that she was safe from her father, doesn't go away. And it would be easy! Because Zuko isn't even looking back at her! She could easily just....

That makes something click though. The fact that, even though he can hear her hesitating, Zuko doesn't turn. He trusts her. He knows that she won't give in.

She isn't alone. She isn't helpless. She can fight back and choose for herself. And even if she should fall, her brother and their friends are there to save her.

In the back of her mind, she hears what Yue had said when deciding to become the Moon Spirit. That she would rather die than let those she loves suffer.

So Azula glares back, stares Ozai down and tells him "I love them more than I fear you."

Yes I am using that line here because I love it and I can't use it later lmao

Unfortunately, Ozai's plan worked. He stalled them long enough. The Eclipse is over. Firebending is back. And Ozai is still an asshole who shoots lightning at his kids.

Zuko and Azula fight back. Honestly, if it were just them, they would have won. But they soon hear the soldiers coming to protect the Fire Lord.

Which means they decide to get the hell out of dodge.