#guess what; lesbophobe.

[lgbtlunaverse]

I do think it's rather unfair for hades game 2 to literally give us a sapphic moon witch and then proceed to have no love inerests you could conceivably do the "sun lesbian/moon lesbian" thing with. That's like lesbophobic I think. They need to bring the iliad characters back and put cassandra (priestess of apollo, which counts as decent sun symbolism I think) in the game or i'm gonna make a genderbent helios out of pure desperation.

[mithliya]

Guess what? apparently the lostelvenqueen blog has been deactivated.

LMAO HE DEACTIVATED AND DELETED HIS TIATRUTHS TWITTER ACCOUNT AT THE SAME TIME

I FUCKING TOLD Y'ALL THAT LOSTELVENQUEEN IS TYGRESSOFAERA!! tras kept dismissing it and overlooking his racism and in the end the truth prevailed.

may that lying racist lesbophobic misogynistic pig never come back & stay away forever

[beritybaker]

Call Me Hot, Not Pretty

Rating: T | Word Count: 3,489 | CW: Suggestive Situations, Accidental Flashing, Internalized Misogyny, Mentions of Homophobia/Lesbophobic Behavior | Tags: Genderswapped, Lesbian Steddie, Mutual Crush, Cheerleader Steve | ao3 For @steddiesportsau week five. Prompt: Cheer.

As she walks into the gym, Eddie knows what everyone is thinking. She can see it on their faces, and in the way they lean towards each other to whisper behind their hands.

"The Freak? What the hell is she doing here?"

Really, she doesn’t mind. She’s always liked being the Freak. It fuels her sense of superiority, because every time some stuck-up priss tries to put her down, Eddie rolls her eyes and reminds herself that most of those girls’ boyfriends have met her out back of the football field, taken one look at her tattoos and fallen hook, line, and sinker for her nonexistent “hot stuff discount”—probably while picturing her making out with another chick, judging by the disgusting number of them who have suggested a threesome at some point. The fact that she could steal a man from any one of them if she wanted to is part of the reason she’s here.

She’s gonna prove that’s not the only way they’re outmatched.

It started a couple days ago, when Jeff first noticed the flier hanging outside their homeroom. Mid-conversation, he snatched it down from the wall, held it out to Eddie, and teased, “Here’s something for you to do, if you’re so bored.”

She read what it was advertising and wrinkled her nose. “Not funny, dude.”

“I’m serious!” he protested, though he was very much not.

“Fuck you, man. I’m not a cheerleader. Pretty sure they don’t even let lesbians try out.”

“Eh, you’re probably right,” he said.

Eddie narrowed her eyes, wary of his tone.

“You’re no athlete,” Jeff went on, shrugging. “Probably best for your ego if you steer clear of any kind of sport.”

At this, Eddie scoffed. “Cheerleading’s not a sport.”

“Is that so?”

“All they do is stand on the sidelines and wave their arms around. What kind of sport is that?”

“Don’t they do pyramids and stuff, too?” Jeff pointed out. “Gymnastics, acrobatics…that sort of thing?”

“I mean, I guess,” Eddie huffed. “But most of it is just looking pretty in a skirt. How hard can that be?”

So here she is at cheerleading tryouts. To prove a point.

She feels just as out of place as the other girls think she is, but she’s not about to give them the satisfaction of looking nervous. She strides over to the sign-in table and says, “Eddie Munson, reporting for duty.”

Chrissy Cunningham, Duchess of the Junior Class and next in line for the Hawkins High throne, glances up from the list in front of her. “Okay, Ed”—she does a double-take—“Eddie Munson?”

“Uh, yeah,” Eddie says. “I signed up on the board in the cafeteria.”

Chrissy’s eyelashes flutter rapidly as she blinks in amazement.

When she doesn’t say anything for a while, Eddie prompts, “Are you gonna sign me in, or what?”

“Right. Uh…yeah. Sure.” She looks back to her list, makes a checkmark next to Eddie’s name near the bottom, and manages to regain her composure to point at the bleachers and say, “You can wait over there. Stevie’s running late, but we’ll get started soon.”

Eddie suppresses an eye roll and bites her tongue to keep from muttering something like Oh, is the captain too busy blowing Tommy H in her car to make it to her own tryouts on time? Instead, she just says, “Thanks.”

“I’m Chrissy, by the way.”

“I know.”

Chrissy quirks an eyebrow. “You know?”

“We’ve met before.”

“We have?” She giggles. It’s something Eddie is used to hearing from other girls when she walks by—only there’s no malice or ridicule in it. Chrissy actually sounds a bit anxious, like she’s worried Eddie might be offended. That’s a nice change, at least.

“Sure,” Eddie says, deciding that talking with Chrissy is as good a way as any to pass the time until the squad’s captain bothers to show up. Chrissy had been sweet as a sixth-grader; maybe she beat the odds and stayed sweet.

“There’s no way. I would’ve remembered.”

Eddie raises an eyebrow. “Middle school talent show? 1980?”

Chrissy stares quizzically for another moment, then it seems to dawn on her. “Oh my god, you had a band! Corroded Coffin, right?”

Eddie grins. “We’re still tearing the roof off my friend’s garage.”

“You were good. I’ve never seen a girl play guitar like that,” Chrissy gushes. “But what in the world are you doing here, if you don’t mind my asking? Cheer doesn’t really seem like something you would be into.”

Shit. Eddie bites the inside of her cheek. She feels kind of bad lying to Chrissy while she’s being so nice, but she doesn’t have another choice. She shrugs and says, “Just wanted to try something new, I guess.”

“Don’t you graduate this year?”

“Well, yeah. I’m supposed to.” Really, she was supposed to graduate last year, but she’s not gonna bring that up.

“So why—?”

“Sorry I’m late!” a voice calls out from the double doors behind Eddie, and the improvement in her mood from finding a friendly face dissipates.

“What’d you get detention for this time?” one of the other girls quips.

Stevie grins, and goddammit, Eddie hates that. She hates how pretty Stevie Harrington’s smile is. “Talked back to Mr. Wyman. You know the temper on that guy.”

“Again?” Chrissy says, an exasperated laugh escaping her.

“Well, what was I supposed to do? He wouldn’t shut up about how ‘easy’ girls had it a hundred years ago, when men did ‘all the work.’” Stevie rolls her eyes. “I had to remind him we couldn’t even vote when he was born. Shit-brained old fart.”

Despite herself, Eddie snorts.

It draws Stevie’s attention, and that smile—straight teeth in a crooked frame of pink lip gloss—makes another appearance, though her perfect brows also knit together, puzzled. “Eddie Munson, right?” she says.

Eddie very nearly takes a step back in surprise. “You know my name?”

“’Course I do. A Queen should know all her subjects,” Stevie jokes. The annoying thing is less the words themselves and more the way she somehow makes them sound self-deprecating. “I don’t get what you’re doing here, though.”

“She wanted to try something new,” Chrissy parrots.

Stevie’s smile widens. “You’re trying out?”

Shit. Oh shit, oh fuck. Abort mission, abort mission, ABORT—

“Uh, yeah,” Eddie’s mouth says, without her permission.

“That’s great! To tell you the truth”—Stevie lowers her voice and leans a little closer, so that only Eddie can hear her—“I’ve been getting kinda tired of seeing the same old faces around here.”

Stevie’s bright, fruity perfume reminds Eddie of the candy she always sneaks in at the movies. She has to hold her breath to keep from getting overwhelmed by it, so she doesn’t have a response to Stevie’s conspiratorial murmur.

Thankfully, she doesn’t need one. Stevie’s already backing away, putting her bag on the floor next to Chrissy’s table, and calling out to the room at large, “Alright, everybody! Come on down here. I want to explain how this is gonna go to all our newbies.”

She leads the crowd of cheerleading hopefuls—mostly freshman and sophomore girls, but with a few boys scattered among them—to the middle of the basketball court. Eddie stays at the back of the group, putting as much distance between herself and the captain as she possibly can.

“Okay. So,” Stevie says. “I recognize a lot of you guys from last year, though I’m excited to see some newcomers, too.” Her gaze rakes over the crowd, and Eddie swears they lock eyes over another girl’s shoulder, though she quickly looks away. “Some of you may remember how tryouts went before, but I want to let you know things are gonna be a little different this year.”

A murmur ripples through the crowd. Stevie ignores it.

“We’re not doing any individual cheer trials this time around. I don’t really think there’s any point to it. We’re supposed to be a team, right? So you’re all gonna try out as a team, with the rest of us.”

The other established members of the squad, who stand behind their captain in a rough line, exchange skeptical looks that seem well-rehearsed, but they don’t protest.

“We’ll be in little teams, though,” she clarifies, and for the love of all things holy, she’s gonna have to stop it with that fucking grin if Eddie is gonna walk out of here with her pride intact. Stevie turns to Chrissy, who stands beside her with the sign-up list. “How many we got?”

Chrissy counts her checkmarks, then answers, “Sixteen.”

“Hm. Okay.” Stevie purses her lips, presumably as she tries to mentally divide the number into the eleven existing team members. It’s even worse than her smile, Eddie thinks, the way she pushes out her lips and makes them look extra plump. Finally, she claps once and says, “Okay! Got it. You four can go with Monica, Becky, and Lauren…”

Stevie continues assigning candidates to her teammates, waving her arms to point out the girls she’s indicating. Eddie sees the speeding train heading for her right before it hits.

“…and the rest of you can go with me and Chrissy.”

Eddie swallows. She’s doing this on purpose, she reasons. She can’t fathom why, but she’s sure Stevie Harrington is trying to make her drop dead right here in the gym. Then she has another idea, one that makes her heart race: Maybe she figured out why I’m really here, and she’s trying to make me suffer for belittling her precious “sport.”

Steeling herself, Eddie joins Stevie and Chrissy, along with three other wannabes. They start by stretching, and at first it brings Eddie back to her cynical motives. The idea of limbering up before something that’s bound to be less physically demanding than a jog across the parking lot feels downright ridiculous, and she suppresses yet another eye roll as she bends over to touch her toes.

Stevie sits on the floor and spreads out her legs. She leans to the side, nearly putting her nose to her knee as her fingers curl around the arch of her right foot. Eddie finds herself staring at the gentle curve of Stevie’s calf, the moles scattered across her inner thigh…

She rises to switch sides, and Eddie’s mind goes completely blank when the movement causes the hem of her shorts—Goddammit, why does she have to wear them that short?—to ride up a bit.

Eddie can’t help the gasp that escapes her when she catches a glimpse of blue cotton, and a puff of dark hair peeking out from under it. That makes her avert her eyes, her cheeks on fire. The underclassman next to her eyes her suspiciously.

“Is something wrong, Eddie?” Chrissy asks.

Uh, yes. I just saw Stevie Harrington’s bush. “No, everything’s fine.”

They continue warming up in relative silence. Eddie manages not to perv on Stevie any more. It’s actually pretty easy, considering her mind is racing with the implications of what she saw.

She hadn’t pegged Stevie to be the kind of girl who lets everything grow wild. In fact, she’s seen her plenty at the pool, in that lifeguard bathing suit with the high-cut leg holes. All summer long, she was smooth as can be, with an even tan and all those beauty marks dotting powerful-looking arms and legs.

But now, only a week into the school year…

Eddie snaps her brain back to the task at hand with some difficulty as Stevie says, “I think it’s best if we get to know each other a little bit first. Who here’s been on a squad before?”

The three other newcomers raise their hands, but Eddie keeps her arms crossed.

“We were all on the team in middle school,” one of the girls explains. She’s got this snooty air about her that embodies everything Eddie’s ever understood about cheerleaders.

“Good. Okay. So what sort of roles did you guys play?”

“I’m a flyer,” the same girl says, smug. “These two were just bases.”

It takes every bit of self-control Eddie has left to keep from muttering something derisive under her breath.

Stevie arches an eyebrow, then turns to the other girls. “So you guys are the strong ones, huh? Nothin’ wrong with that,” she chuckles. “Might even say you’re the most important part of a jump.”

The snooty girl’s expression is priceless. Eddie has to press her lips together. When she glances at Chrissy, she looks like she’s having a similarly hard time not smirking.

“I’ve never been a flyer. Too much junk in the trunk, you know?” Stevie goes on, slapping her own ass.

The urge to laugh at the snooty girl’s stricken look passes in an instant, as soon as Eddie hears that sound. She chews on her lip, begging her mind to reject the image of Stevie’s cheeks jiggling in her shorts even as it starts to burn itself into her memory.

Suddenly, Stevie turns to her. “I bet you could be, Munson. Willowy thing like you…I bet I could pick you up and throw you all on my own.”

Jesus Christ in a rowboat, this is not what I signed up for. The glance Eddie gives Stevie’s biceps is completely involuntary, and she hopes after the fact that it flew under the radar. But Stevie’s smirk is positively evil, and it tells Eddie one very important thing: she noticed.

In a voice far too suggestive for her to be using in public—let alone in this situation, let alone on Eddie—Stevie quips, “You wanna try it?”

All at once, it’s too much. Eddie’s surprised she lasted this long, if she’s being honest. She forces herself to meet Stevie’s gaze and says, “Okay, you can stop that. I know what you’re doing.”

“Oh, you do?” Stevie’s voice is as sultry as ever. She doesn’t even have the decency to drop the act and have a little mercy.

“Yeah. And I’ll leave. This was a fucked-up idea, anyway.” Eddie turns on her heel and marches to the exit, grabbing her things on the way. She no longer cares about the point she was trying to make, nor the bet she’ll be losing to Jeff; as far as she’s concerned, buying him ice cream every day for the rest of her life is better than standing around getting teased by the prom queen.

She hears conversations trail off as she passes each of the other groups, but Eddie doesn’t look back. She’s laser-focused on the double-doors, knowing the parking lot is just on the other side, and she won’t have to feel their eyes boring into her back anymore.

The doors are in reach when she hears Stevie call out, “Eddie, wait!” followed by running footsteps.

Eddie moves faster. She doesn’t need to hear about why she shouldn’t have showed up just to be a bitch, or about how she should stop judging books by their covers if she wants anyone to do the same for her. She shoves through the doors and makes a beeline for her van in the corner of the lot, determined to throw a Rainbow tape into the deck and turn the volume up as loud as she can stand while she speeds home. Maybe Wayne already left work, she thinks. Hopes.

She’s only a few steps from the door, though, when she hears it fly open again, and Stevie’s voice says, “Eddie, seriously. Stop!”

Eddie does stop. She closes her eyes and takes a deep breath, then lets it out on a heavy sigh.

“What gives, Eddie?” Stevie asks. “One minute you’re all for ‘trying something new,’ and the next—”

“You don’t have to do that anymore, alright?” Eddie snaps, whirling around. “I was wrong. I admit it. Cheerleaders don’t have to be snatches. It only took you and Chrissy, what…fifteen minutes to convince me? But you did. So I’m going home.”

Stevie visibly deflates. “What?”

Eddie’s eyes squeeze closed again, because if there’s anything more dangerous than Stevie’s smile, it’s the injured look that crosses her face. “There’s no point giving me those fucking puppy-dog eyes, either. You were nice to me, and then you figured out what I was doing here, and you made me pay for it. I don’t blame you. It was s shitty thing for me to do.”

“Eddie, I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.”

She cracks her eyes open. “You don’t?”

“No. But I would love it if you could explain yourself,” Stevie demands, putting her hands on her hips.

Eddie looks at the asphalt in front of Stevie’s bright-white sneakers for a moment before confessing. She tells Stevie about Jeff joking around with the flier, about her dismissal of cheer as a sport and the way she’d bet him an ice cream cone every weekend for the rest of the semester that she could make the team with minimal effort, despite not having an athletic bone in her body. Eddie even tells her that she should’ve known the plan was doomed as soon as she saw Stevie smile, because she knew she wasn’t going to be able to disappoint someone with a smile like that, even if her anti-conformist principles were on the line.

The longer she talks, the deeper Stevie’s frown becomes. By the time she’s done, there’s a heavy crease between Stevie’s brows, and her shoulders have started to slump forward.

A solemn beat of silence follows the end of Eddie’s story, then she mumbles, “So like I said. I’ll just go home now.”

Before she can turn away, Stevie’s soft voice stops her. “You thought I was flirting with you…to punish you?”

“Yeah. I mean, I deserved it.”

“Eddie, that wasn’t…” Stevie takes a deep breath. “Yeah, I’m not gonna lie, you did show up here with a pretty shitty attitude, if you’re telling me the truth. But I didn’t notice, and I wasn’t messing around. I mean, sure, I was laying it on thick, but don’t you kinda have to do that so the other girl knows you’re flirting and not just being nice?”

Eddie stares. “You…what?”

“We see how well that shit worked out,” Stevie grumbles.

“You were…actually flirting with me? Like, actually?”

“Well, yeah,” she says, like it should’ve been totally obvious. Like the Queen of Hawkins High herself would ever bother with the resident loudmouthed dealer who started a D&D club her sophomore year. “You like girls, right? It’s not like you try to hide it. And you’re pretty.” A little bit of her smirk returns, though it’s subdued now, with a twinge of melancholy. “Hot as hell might even be more accurate.”

“But…you…?”

“Had a thing with Nancy Wheeler last year. Didn’t work out, mostly because we were both still figuring out how serious we were about girls. But, uh, I am. Serious, I mean. The only other member of the squad who knows is Chrissy, but I figured with you around…well. Maybe I could make some more progress there.”

“Wait, is that why you were so excited to see me here? You thought if the team could accept a weirdo lezzie like me, you’d have a shot at them accepting you, too?”

Stevie’s cheeks are bright pink. “I guess that was part of it. I helps that if you were on the squad, I would get to spend a lot of time with you.”

She folds her arms, and Eddie isn’t sure whether she’s aware of just how nice her boobs look pushed up like that, but she can’t be totally ignorant of it. Sure enough, when Eddie yanks her eyes away from Stevie’s chest, red-faced, she finds that incredible grin making a comeback.

“You could still come back in there, you know. The girls will understand,” Stevie says. With a bit of a growl that makes Eddie shudder, she adds, “I’ll make sure they do.”

Eddie swallows. “So if I go back in for tryouts…”

“And take it seriously. Can’t emphasize that enough,” Stevie puts in.

“Right. If I do that…then it might mean spending a lot of time after school with you?”

“We could carpool,” she says, wrinkling her nose playfully.

Eddie raises her eyebrows. “Do you even know where I live?”

“Well, no. But I’m all about sleepovers.”

The possibilities fly through her head: the two of them in matching skirts and sweaters, making out in the back of Stevie’s beemer after a football game; Stevie helping her tame her curls enough for the standard high ponytail; learning an acrobatic stunt or two, and having an excuse to let Stevie put her hands on her right in front of everybody…

Most importantly, she’d get to see that smile up close, every goddamn day.

She tilts her head and looks up bashfully through her lashes. “I guess I’m gonna go try and be a jock now.”

[immediatebreakfast]

I'd guess the majority of classic Carmilla movies, like The Vampire Lovers, Crypt Of The Vampire, The Blood Splattered Bride, Carmilla (1968, 1998), etc., insert a male protagonist or male love interests/targets for Carmilla or Laura (or for both) because of lesbophobia and to cast a wider net on audiences. It's more titillating to have a poster of a succubus seducing/threatening also a man in the sexploitation ones, and more normative to have famous actors as the male heroes facing the vamp to preserve her seduced maiden.

Like you've said, the men are either nameless or late plot devices in the story, but this has no general audience appeal. Carmilla nor Laura show any romantic/erotic interest in men (or 19 y/o Mircalla, who from another's narrative had noblemen in love, but no indication she returned it), even subconsciously. Laura only dreams of female voices, hands, and lips, and Carmilla's only been in love with her. The closest is Laura wondering if Carmilla is secretly a wooing boy, to cope with her confusion. Not exactly box office hit material. Even now, when an lgbt film does numbers (and even then it's usually male/male) it's mainly seen as a niche. To use a horror example, the new Nosferatu, if Count Orlok was obsessed with Thomas instead, it'd not be the same success. That's also why you have dozens of hetero Draculas and two indie lesbian Carmillas.

Some people HAVE to understand that when you make a movie out of a classic book you are not making this shit for a wider audience. Call me elitist or whatever, but do you really think that they average person who is not familiar with how the literary gothic works will get everything that Carmilla represents. Unless you have the finger and nail on your creative pulse, like Nosferatu 2024, you are not making a movie for a wider audience.

It's a story about the "dangers" of lesbianism while giving us the most tortured vampire who flees from her victims. The protagonists are two girls who spend all of their time together while developing a romantic relationship that is dangerous not because it's a non normative one, but because of the cycle of violence that made Carmilla into a vampire looming over them. The men are plot devices at best, nuinances at worst and are defined by their titles and position in the patriarchal structure that isolated Laura to the point of wishing friendship from any stranger. Both girls bond over their love, growth, and transformation as women while still maintaning the carnage of the vampire in the background. Laura has erotic dreams of a feminine form biting her on the breast. Carmilla dances between the edge of arrogance and mental insanity for Laura while going on a killing spree on the country side. The supernatural is real, a spectre whispers to Laura's ear to beware an assassin, Carmilla walks through gardens in a sleepwalking way as if she was a ghost, the mere mention of madame la Comtesse and her troupe implies that there is a den of vampires and thralls in Styria. Reality is not reality, and the illusions are real.

It will never be worldwide hit, nor box office material because the fundamental story is gnarly, and heavy. So, why change it? Why try to change it to the point of bastardizing it? To tell a "different and subversive" story? What the fuck are they subversing if the fucking public doesn't know the ORIGINAL STORY! What the fuck do these adaptations want with this over focus on the men when the girls protagonists get pushed aside too on their very novella!

So to portray Carmilla has an unfeeling succubus who plays with Laura before getting killed by the bland toast male character forcibly inserted with tape is a disservice to the whole novella. Sheridan le Fanu wrote this with the underlining lesbophobic intent of "your daughters might be led astray by beautiful women so watch out" and STILL managed to give nuance to Carmilla, even with all of the innocent blood she carries. So, again, if the century old author managed to be less bigoted (in some aspects) than the modern director of the 21st century then we have some fucking problems.

[low-budget-korra]

Lesbians vs Bissexual

Yep I'm really gonna hit this. First, I'm a Lesbian with both lesbians and bissexual friends, so I hear both sides. Here we go.

1. Lesbians who want to have "lesbians only" spaces. Such as bar, club, book shop.... wherever, or even such way more futile stuff like a page on social media only for lesbians to interact with lesbians about their experience as lesbians, ITS NOT BIPHOBIA.

There's the more radical version of this where there's lesbians who only want to date other lesbians bc they want a partner who understands what it is like to be a lesbian. And I get there's a really thin line but it's understandable honestly. Its like when people only choose to date ppl from the same race or social status as them, bc they understand each other's experiences. Sure, in some cases this is rooted in racism, xenophobia, classissim, but sometimes it ain't. Sometimes its just someone wanting an easier relationship with someone who understands their struggles bc they also have them.

2. I know I'm gonna be an asshole rn but dear bissexual women, the biphobia u guys suffer online IS NOT the same as the sometimes physical violence gays, lesbians and trans ppl suffer on the street. I'm saying this bc I've a lot of bissexual girls, both in Twitter and TikTok, acting like they can get beat up or suffer real bad shit just bc they are bi.

Sure, sadly it happens but it's nowhere near as much as it happens with gays, lesbians and trans. The most y'all had to deal with is mean comments.

3. Dead lesbian, just because a bissexual girl leaves you for a guy, that doesn't mean every bissexual woman will do the same with every lesbian.

Dear bissexual, stop blindly defending s8 girls who only say they are bi to get likes and "be a part of the club". They make y'all look bad. And please, stop bringing your s8 boyfriend into lgbt safe places when y'all are searching for a girl to have a threesome.

4. This one is specific bc I've seen a lot with CaitVi.

Hate comments abt the ship and put the "I'm a bissexual" as a shield to not get backlash. But girly, you can be bissexual and still don't understand how CaitVi is important to us lesbians. You can be bissexual and be lesbophobic just as much lesbians can be biphobic.

You're bissexual, you don't know what it's like to have 90% of your shows and ships getting cancelled, dying or no happy ending. Because you still have thousands of s8 shows and ships that represent you in a way bc you still like men.

And don't be like the s8 and their fuckin double standards. If the oppressor x oppressed thing really is something that bothers u, u wouldn't ship Timebomb bc guess what, Jinx worked for Silco and Silco was oppressive towards Zaunites and anyone who stood against him. While Ekko was someone who stood against him. Y'all were so focused on the enforcers uniform and the Kirammans family that y'all forgot this *detail*

[dreamwreaver]

tbh as someone who ships guitarprincess, I wonder why people in general act like it’s sacrilege for charlie to be paired with a dude. reeks of weird """bihet""" discourse again where it’s basically seen that only bi women who date women are valid and any bi woman with a man is a dirty whore who is heterosexual lite. literally saw this val/alastor shipper call 90% of charlie x male shippers lesbophobic abuse lovers and I'm just like....dafuk

Let me make clear that while charlastor is my otp, I do kinda ship guitarprincess? Like in the way that Charlie just wanted to do shit to piss off her parents and fucked her mom's ex-husband. Sad though, that even the chemistry for Charlie and Adam is more obvious...

Yeah no the hellaverse fandom by and large seems to have a huge ass biphobia problem. And it's not even just with women; moxxie is consistently forgotten to be bisexual because he's married to Millie. One of my closest friends is bi but married a man and guess what? She still thinks women are hot.

The irony though; of calling anyone who likes a her-presenting ship a lesbophobic abuse apologist when their ships are just as toxic. Internet misandry at its finest where women are perfect angels and any association with icky nasty men taints them. Yeah, super inclusive.

[princessefemmelesbian]

This sad spineless little bitch made this post and then blocked me. Guess they can't handle the truth. 🤣

Love how you assume I'm a terf just because I'm a(true) lesbian. If you went through my blog for even a second you'd know that's not the case. But I'm not surprised that a bi lesbian is throwing that word around and not knowing what it means.

You also don't seem to know what homophobic means either lol. You're not gonna guilt trip actual lesbians into saying we like cis dick. Are those lesbians in the room with us right now?

Anyway go back to your lesbophobic troll cave and die there.

P.S. your boyfriend is a creep. ✌🏿

[fleabagsjoy]

Ok so i just binge-watched Oniisama E (Dear Brother) and i have.... thoughts. And feelings.

(SPOILERS AHEAD!)

Not super eloquent ones, I don't have any type of degree or formal education on writing or media analysis, i'm just word vomiting what i think and feel without any sources or facts to back it up so i hope that's okay. And i feel like i should preface with the fact that i didn't actually watch the last four episodes because i dreaded having to sit through Kaoru and Mariko ending up with men idgaf about, and instead read a summary of those last four episodes on Wikipedia.

With that being said, i absolutely loved this anime, i had already watched Revolutionary Girl Utena and everyone who enjoyed that one was talking about this anime so i figured I'd give it a try too and i don't regret it at all. The characters, the setting, the ANIMATION, the main plot and subplots (some of which i enjoyed more than others), i enjoyed it all.

I don't want to point out the obvious about the ending, we all know. But i was prepared, went in with the mindset of completely ignoring eps 36-39, specially the "Real Love is Heterosexual Love" speech that it pulls in the last couple episodes, so i'm not that upset by it. I will say that putting "you will only know what true love is when you find a man for yourself" is some twisted, sexist and lesbophobic stuff to put in an anime where Nanako, Rei and Mariko canonically fall in love with girls and whoever came up with that will not be seeing the pearly gates of heaven. And if that wasn't enough, they had to make the girls end up with men because uuhhh i guess they have to! But anyways, i still read the summary of what happened in those last four episodes.

I read a review from 3 years ago by medivhtirisfal that mentioned this and i'm so glad i'm not the only one but this really reminds me of a series of books that i used to collect when i was younger about an all girls boarding school and all types of adventures and mischief they got up to (the St. Clare's series) and i guess part of me always craved more of that. Oniisama E scratched that itch i suppose, i'll always crave all female casts and to see interactions and relationships that form between them, all types of relationships really: sisterhood, platonic, romantic, sexual, healthy, toxic, simple, complex... women stories matter! And i love when they're the center and backbone of the plot.

Now back to the actual anime. I haven't read the manga yet, don't think i will for a while even though i do like the mangakas artstyle from the few panels i've seen. But like i mentioned, Oniisama E reminds me of those books i used to collect, it's a string of events that happen during the first school year at an all-girls academy of our main character Misonoo Nanako.

It was very satisfying to see Nanako be a bit more submissive when everything and everyone was new to her vs. becoming more confident in her decisions and standing up for herself and others she cares about later on. She was always very caring for others, but i do feel like she let herself be shoved around in the first few episodes so seeing her stand up for Rei against Fukiko and quit the Sorority because of her loyalty not just to Mariko, but to herself and her values, made her one of my favorite characters. Also who can't relate to falling in love with Rei... Asaka Rei was undoubtedly one of the reasons that got me to watch the anime.

I gotta prepare myself before i write a paragraph for her because wow... too much to unpack. I can't elaborate better than some other Asaka Rei understanders about the intricacies of witnessing her own mother take her life in front of her daughter, after telling her to protect and take care of Fumiko, and how that pressure of committing to her mother's final wish lead to Rei's confusion of feelings for her own sister, devoting her everything to her, even her life. I suspect never dealing with the loss of her mother properly is what lead to Rei's severe depression and inability to understand all types love and bonds that she could have with other people, seeing Fukiko as her beginning and end from that moment.

Needless to say that, as much as i wanted her to realize this and free herself from this torment so she could deal with her trauma properly, she had to do it by herself so she could gain some sense of self and build an identity outside of someone she worshiped for so long and SPECIALLY before getting into a relationship with anyone (r.i.p. nanakorei). She's the most tragic character in this story to me, all of this started at a very young age and she had no way to get out of it and when she got close to that, the plot decided to say NOPE. NO CHANCES OF A HAPPY ENDING FOR YOU. Bottom line is: she desperately needed therapy. Veeery early on.

I have to follow up with Ichinomiya Fukiko, a really toxic and abusive teenage girl with too much power over the other girls at school, she lives in a bubble built for incredibly rich people (as do many of the other characters), leader of the Sorority (an academy "elite club"). One of the best things about shoujo ai like this is that all female characters are so fleshed out and have so much to give to the viewers and Fukiko is no exception. I will say that i fail to see a character that has so much (negative) impact on most of the other main characters as she was very often abusing/taking advantage of/humiliating others.

It's definitely because of her upbringing but she always bottled up her feelings to keep up a façade of composure, with Nanako's constant defiance, after confronting her feelings for Henmi and her relationship with Rei, as well as after the abolition of the Sorority, we gradually got to see different sides of her. She's... complicated. Not an evil mastermind or anything, her attempts of sabotage seemed very desperate adn half-hearted, but she could still be very cruel and take advantage even of people she claimed to love. Still, Fukiko was one of the main driving forces of the story and i can always appreciate a character like that.

Of course that leads me to Orihara Kaoru! She is probably one of the most consistent characters in the anime, loyal, determined and resolute, very sure of where she stands, oh my god... i'd crush on her so hard too if i was one of the girls at the academy. I loved the relationship she had with Rei, the soulmateism was off the charts, they had an incredibly intimate bond that no one could replicate and, besides Nanako, i felt for her the most when Rei passed away. I'm pretty sure her having to face the past between her and Henmi was also a big part of her character but again, i really don't wanna witness how that ends so i'm not gonna elaborate too much on what happens in the last four episodes, which is unfortunate because i'm sure a lot of her own development as a character happens in those but whatever...

I didn't expect this when i started Oniisama e but Shinobu Mariko is my favorite character!! It took a while for her to grow on me but i love her a lot. Mariko is mostly known for the misandrist lines (which... real) and i appreciate that she never really changed that (until #those episodes but i won't consider them strictly canon for my sake), but she had such a great story arc with facing her loneliness and facing the problems she had with her parents. I'm no psychologist but BPD is heavily implied and from what i've seen by other fans with BPD, a lot of symptoms were shown throughout the anime, which i appreciate since Mariko wasn't villainized and was instead shown as someone with her own issues with boundaries and relationships at first but that she could manage and balance in a healthier way later on... it's not something you can easily see in anime, specially not from this time. I was really happy when Mariko, Nanako and Tomoko became a great friend trio who could rely on each other halfway through, another testament to her character development.

Tomoko was one of my favs as well! A lot of other characters were very interesting and had important moments in main characters arc like Misaki and Henmi. It's been a while since i've seen an older shoujo but the animation and editing was fascinating to me, very gorgeous, over the top sometimes but we need that! What happened to that! Anyways it's very beautiful, i appreciate it. The intro song will stick with me too and the damn Academy bell... Very melodramatic, but very fun, it's a hit for me!

I'm still grieving Rei so i can't really face anything that happened in eps 33-35. We're past making the lesbians suffer, NANAKO AND REI DESERVED THEIR DATE ON THE BEACH!!

I fear i will be upset by that for the time being but hey, that's what fanfiction is for.

[diaphin93]

Edelcrits being Lesbophobic Take 2:

Okay, so remember my blogpost about that guy with very colorful opinions about sibling on sibling relationships being asked to pass judgement on whether or not Lesbians are wrong about liking Edelgard? Yes, the Edelcritical Lesbophobia just intensified

Aka Dimitris Lethal Cock, somebody who praises Azure Gleam as Gay and lies about being a LGBT Safespace while deliberately misgendering people on other blogpost of theirs. So yeah, I think it doesn't need to be said that we can automatically dismiss this person speaking for sapphic and lesbian women. I guess what they mean is that lesbians should learn to behave and start to demand androcentric stories that values male relationship in a way that cisheterosexual women can read faux-queer relationships tailored to their heteronormative tastes out of it without offending the cisheterosexual male fanbase? Because lets be honest, this is the majority of queer subtext in the Azure Routes and Azure Gleam even doubles down on it by sidelining Dedue in favor of putting more emphasis to Dimitris Relationship with the white weeb twink.

But yeah, this post is really written by somebody who does not understand sapphic women, probably never interacted with a transfem lesbian their entire live and clearly has some extensive prejudice against sapphics which are widespread in Fandoms, because these kinds of debates always end in bashing the sapphics or their media. Because otherwise they would take back a step and notice...that Edelgard is very much in line with the typical fandom favs of sapphics?

Because lesbians don't want and probably hate whatever you consider to be better and most sapphic fans probably would immediately drop the series if you had any say in what to creat tbh? We are talking about some vile weirdo who seems to be into Azure Gleam after all, lol. I already made my point clear why Edelgard resonates with Sapphics. Her design, her personality and narrative are a super strong match, which is just further supported by also having Dorothea right next to her, another sapphic fav with strong feminist themes in her narrative.

Ultimately, I really recommend especially trans Edelgard Fans to stay away from this person as they seem to be quite nefarious, as I mentioned, I've seen them already deliberately misgendering members of the Edelgard discord, I assume in order to move forward their strawman, that Edelgard Fans are only men.

[rius-cave]

What do you think of Charlastor? It's okay if you're not particularly interested, I just wanted to know. A lot of people say “it's gross” because of Hell's Greatest Dad, saying Alastor sees Charlie as a daughter, even tho Viv herself said he didn't, and was just trying to annoy Lucifer. A lot of people treat shippers like we're freaks or lesbophobes for shipping them, or say we're erasing Al's asexuality... I'm aroace, I just love shipping characters that show good chemistry together. Also, people seem to forget that asexuality doesn't affect romantic attraction, and how Charlie is bisexual...

I don't know why I'm telling you this, I just wanted to vent I guess. Also, I love your art, and since you're also a proshipper I thought you might understand.

Greetings from Venezuela!

Eyooo hello! Thanks for the support!! <3

I'm gonna be so fr, people needing to be told that Alastor doesn't ACTUALLY see Charlie as a daughter and was just doing it to fuck with Lucifer is.... embarrassing dskfjdkgfdg, like have a LITTLE bit of critical thinking 😭😭😭 I'm sorry but it literally COULDN'T be more obvious.

I actually quite like seeing Charlastor from time to time lol. I wouldn't really call myself a shipper, but I like it! I especially enjoy the art where Charlie is depicted as the more assertive one, or just, Alastor is kind of lost trying to navigate around it dskfjdkgg (if you can't tell.... I love stripping Alastor of his ego it's so damn funny to me LMAO)

The discourse surrounding Charlastor is one of the most baffling things to me tbh. As I understand it, it was one of the most popular ships before the show aired because their interactions in the pilot were pretty cute. Honestly, I can totally see it and I definitely understand why it was such a beloved ship. I've also heard that the shippers were incredibly annoying and I can kinda understand why that soured the ship in the eyes of other people. But in my case? I think charlastor shippers are lovely, for the most part lol. Nowadays I think the annoying shippers are in another ship dskfdjgkdf but we don't talk about that.

Calling people homophobic for shipping charlastor is also the most braindead take I've heard in a while. I don't doubt that there must be some shippers who are legitimately homophobic, but I really don't think that's the majority of them and it's wrong to say that about someone JUST because they ship it.

And you can probably guess what I think about the whole Alastor is aroace thing lmao. First off, I believe it's not confirmed whether or not he's aromantic, secondly, ace people can have sex!!! and lastly and probably more importantly, I REALLY COULDN'T GIVE LESS OF A SHIT WHAT A CHARACTER'S CANON SEXUALITY IS WHEN IT COMES TO SHIPPING!!!

I simply don't care!!! If the dynamic is cute, I'll ship it!!! The character won't be any less aroace in canon just by drawing him swapping saliva with somebody else!!! People can fucking ship gay Angel Dust and sapphic Vaggie together for all I care!!!

*sighs* TL;DR I hate ship policing and I think everyone has a right to ship whatever the fuck they want

[lettersfromcassiopeia]

Since I can’t respond to the discourse posting that just happened since OP is a minor and can’t take criticism I guess, I wanna say something really quick

I’m really not liking how people are talking to my siblings. My brothers. And I’m really tired of all these weird takes from predominantly younger members of the community. I’m begging everyone in the community to think more on the nature of labels and how they can change

And I’m also tired of pretending the opposition of the whole ‘Transman Lesbian’ debacle are reasonable people. I don’t care how much you say you aren’t a TERF— you’re doing the TERF thing anyway.

Furthermore you’re demonizing people literally just playing with words and what they could mean and saying they aren’t valid. Immediately calling them Lesbophobic without even offering them a chance to talk and explain.

This is cop behavior. You’re acting like cops.

No cops at pride

Now git’.

[contradictory-label-culture-is]

Bit of a more ventish one, warning for exclusionist and transphobic rhetoric that I don't actually believe of course, but I'm saying anyway as a way to represent what exclus believe.

Contradictory label culture, at least for most labels, is people deciding which of your identities you are based on how they want to invalidate you. I myself can either be trans with internalized transphobia for being genderqueer and cis, or I can just be a cis girl who has no right to be talking over "actual" nonbinary people. I can be a lesbophobic bi person trying to take away lesbian's identity and force them to like men or I can be a biphobic lesbian trying to appropriate bisexuality and exclude nonbinary people from lesbianism. Trans man lesboys can either be creepy guys trying to prey on lesbians or they can be confused butches who fell for transgender ideology. Cistrans people can either also be trans with internalized transphobia like I supposedly am, or they can be cis invaders who aren't trans enough. Mspec straights can be straight people invading the community, or they can be bi people with internalized biphobia. AMAB transmascs and AFAB transfems can either be cis people trying to be special, or (exclusively in the case of intersex afab transfems and amab transmascs) "not count" as AMAB/AFAB because they're intersex (and perisex people took AGAB language wildly out of the intersex context it was coined in.)

That last one is BAD like I know each one are bad in their own way but that last one...ughh... Bluntly being an asshole to intersex people with that.

I can't imagine hearing someone tell me their label(s) and then saying "hmm ...but you're not actually that, you're ____ ___ and if you don't apologize and identify as what I just told you, you're a danger to the LGBTQ community and a faker, a transtrender, trying to be a quirky cishet, and you're identifying yourself the "wrong way""

Like I couldn't imagine myself doing that because guess what?? No one has to prove their identity to me! I just say "ok, cool." And move on!

When people start to unironically say "transtrender" or anything about someone who identifies as queer ACTUALLY being a cishet that's trying to be quirky, invalidating themselves, being a danger to the community, being a predator for identifying a specific way, "you're making the community look bad" blah blah you know the stuff they say. Their point just gets thrown out the window because I am NOT listening to someone who says that!

[tirfpikachu]

Omg the post about 'a lesbian could be attracted to a man if they're very special' reminded me of something that happened.

I go to a club and one of the girls who went there recently split from her BF, and apparently he wasn't very nice. She said she had only ever dated women until that point and before that she thought she was a lesbian. The girl's friend said well he did catfish you.

Turns out, the girl had met him on a dating app when he was identifying as a trans woman and he basically 'detransitioned' the moment they started dating.

So this girl's friend is going well, you are a lesbian, and then the girl goes, really quietly, well no, I guess I'm bi? Girl's friend: no, you're a lesbian.

Like, I'm holding my tongue because I'm bi. I've never dated a man (nor do I intend to), but I still find them attractive, so I'm bi. And this girl was genuinely attracted to her bf, but her friend was adamant she was still a lesbian and I'm just... if I can openly say I'm bi without any intention of dating the opposite sex, and never having done so, then what's the issue here?

It was so awkward, like the girl was clearly uncomfortable about it.

THAT'S SO AWKWARD WTF ????????????

like bruh if you're attracted to Just Some Dude who isn't even presenting as transfem anymore... you're bi as hell. if you've genuinely been attracted to a guy or an omab person who isn't presenting as female or even aligning with women socially... you're not a lesbian. febfem sexuality should honestly be more normalized. it's okay to choose to only date one side or the other! it doesn't make you any less bi. that's legit just biphobic rhetoric. people don't CHOOSE to be gay based on finding one side annoying or smth. gays legit are incapable of being attracted to either the opposite sex or people who present as the opposite sex, within reason ofc. and even then that's still technically a bisexual experience in the bi = both sexes definition, and not a homosexual experience unless you can't tell at all the person's sex... which imo is pretty unlikely once you learn the person is trans, there's usually certain features & behaviors that give it away once you look closer that might or might not affect your attraction. but yeah, saying that you can straight up be into someone who presents 100% as male and STILL be a lesbian is unhinged.

like the "well the person is transfem" as an excuse doesn't even apply?? that blows my mind. i would even, very controversially, have given people some leeway on the whole being technically bi/into both sexes yet only being into bio/cis men & transmascs (or bio/cis women & transfems) thing... like in a way that's being into both sexes but also only being into gay-passing relationships, which is a really unique experience. it technically still falls under bisexuality, but imo it's still a close cousin experience to gayness. honestly if the whole "bi lesbian" thing had been only about people who are technically bisexual in the dictionary definition of the term but are only capable to be attracted to people presenting as female or male and only date in a gay-presenting way, i wouldn't have had an issue with it since transness can make sexuality quite complicated. they would still face homophobia, including about them not being into het-presenting relationships. as long as they had been respectful abt homosexuals i wouldn't have cared. but alas, "bi lesbian" is for a rly stupid reason...

that "friend" is just pushing biphobic & lesbophobic rhetoric. i hope you can have a good convo with her and reassure her that if she was ever into a guy, a male person that's 100% male-presenting, she is extremely bisexual. there's just no way around it. even with the transfem identity, i'll see 100% male-passing transfems try to get with lesbians and it drives me fucking crazy. it's disrespectful af!!

[ibuprfn]

You have no idea how much it means to have someone say what I've been thinking. I'm not really capable of using or understanding the post modernist type of obfuscating rhetoric that gets thrown around the moment any bisexual woman on radblr mentions an unpleasant experience exclusive to them lol so I just get overwhelmed and second guess if the very real experience of marginalization I literally just had is real or not because I didn't phrase it in a way that was peer-reviewed by every lesbian and febfem on Radblr prior. And though I'm being cheeky and joking here I am getting exhausted at seeing the same old dismissive attitude pop up time and time again from other women who would rather do anything other than show empathy or be quiet when we talk about bullshit we see and know is happening. It's true we need our own community, but I do worry that because of the constant vitriol between lesbians and bisexuals on Radblr women would feel a bit worried to join if that meant being labeled as "likely lesbophobic" by anyone else. In fact a lot of being openly bisexual on Radblr just kinda feels like you're having to prove your existence isn't some chosen homophobic statement but just an unchangeable part of who you are. Making it seem like we're just being insecure reminds me a lot of how TRAs will dismiss you lol. At this point I think it would be satisfying to see bisexuals have more audacity because many of us are caring too much about making every woman happy when it's just not going to be like that. Even when we trip over ourselves to police our language in a way that we're told will be acceptable to lesbians we're always going to piss them off because they always see us as on thin ice. They don't trust us, because so many of them see bisexuality as either homophobic or just too difficult to understand. I would love to talk in a space where it's only radfem bisexuals, or even just rad leaning bisexual women. Idk I'm just rambling. Sorry.

When talking about biphobia I avoid singling out or generalizing lesbians because 1) they are also a marginalized community and 2) the brunt of biphobia is not actually from them. But no matter how carefully I word things, some people on here will still call me lesbophobic for even the most basic statements (like “bisexuals don’t have straight privilege”). And that happens even if my post never mentions lesbians to begin with.

At some point it starts to feel like they’re just trying to shut down any meaningful discussion of bisexuality. How are we supposed to fix the disparities bisexuals face when even acknowledging those disparities exist becomes an argument every time? It’s annoying and I agree bisexuals have got to start getting meaner. We’re allowed to prioritize ourselves and talk about our own experiences without constantly having to defer to other groups.

[alicepao13]

Hudson and Rex S05E07 - The Date Escape - Part B

Is drinking along with the prison escapees considered aiding and abetting?

I used to think that the response from the public on this episode was exaggerated, and then the murdered healthcare CEO story happened.

There's throwback to the fact that Rex doesn't like coconut.

Angela Bassett mention! With two Ts, by the way. Get it right, subtitles.

Boy, do I have news for you...

Charlie referencing car trouble. I'm sure it won't come up again.

"We've been slammed by hoax calls." Who would have guessed...

Charlie, take notes.

That was funny.

Oh, that swollen wrist was horrible. I'm not screenshotting it.

Here's our b plot. Or maybe it counts as part of the main plot because denying treatment to Valerie was actually the reason for all this? If not, then we have two b plots in this episode (Joe's dating life is the second). Also, Sarah looks so good. I had to say it.

Doctor: "It's my belief that negative thinking often leads to real life health outcomes." Sarah: "Huh. It's my belief that being incarcerated leads to negative thinking." Slay!

Imagine if Charlie was there. He would have been so horny after that.

Charlie, can you just... not be you for a second and leave those lesbians alone?

EAT SHIT UP FAITH AND FAMILY! It was a very sweet moment!

What are you doing? Were you sent by Up Faith and Family?

"For fuck's sake, Charlie. Don't embarrass me."

Charlie is not lesbophobic, by the way. He just hates weddings.

Oh boy. Yes, go all in on a date with a woman you've never met.

Rex grasped the opportunity to be the ring bearer, and good for him because Charlie is still dragging his heels to this day.

Tell that to S6 Charlie. Like, can you please decide if it is or not in your universe? It's not that hard.

You'll catch up, eventually.

Now, that priest is definitely doing god's work.

Why would you stop to say the line???

Engine failure? Dude, you're embarrassing Rex.

To be continued in Part C.

[damnfandomproblems]

Fandom Problem #6446:

The shipping situation in one of my current fandoms is super weird. Canon cast is roughly about 75% female and 25% male. There are several friend groups among the cast. Both friend group A and friend group B has two girls and two boys.

For friend group A, they don't like it if you ship two guys together but don't ship the poly version with everyone in the group.The f/f ship is exempt from this and any possible m/f combination in friend group A is also exempt for this as long as you also ship a few gay ships outside of friend group A . They don't call the gay ship problematic because they can't because remember they like the poly version and if they call the gay ship problematic, they poly ship will also be problematic and they can't have that happening now can they? They're calling it the "gay ship for the straights" for now. Call me a conspiracy theorist but I think they're going gradually segue from that to calling everyone who ships it but not the poly ship a fetishizing cishet fujoshi. But for now at least, it's not too bad for the shippers. They just have to deal with a lot of backhanded comments, remarks and insults(not directly flung at them but there's often a post floating around insulting them) but not outright harassment at least.

For friend group B, both the f/f ship and m/m ship are very explicit ship bait. They are very popular as a result. If you ship any m/f combination, be prepared for a VERY unpleasant time. You'll undoubtedly be called lesbophobic if you do that. If you ship the boys with any girls that not in friend group B, it's not as bad but you'll have to deal with neverending comments about how it doesn't make sense even if you're just minding your own business.Blood will be shed if you ship any combination of m/f in friend group B. Also, I cannot stress enough that it's not canon that they're queer. Anyone who says that is really deep in denial. I can't say the media and genre of this series because it will be a dead giveaway what I'm talking about but if I can, you will understand why I say there's a near zero chance of ANY ship becoming canon, straight or not. "But what if I only like the gay ships from friend group A and poly friend group B?" Guess.

Inter-group shipping exist but it's not as popular. But any f/f ship (including poly) is in the clear, even if they've never interacted. The only m/f ships you're allowed to like is from friend group A by the way. I'm not joking, they're the only m/f ones you get to like. There's like 4 possible intergroup ships not including poly ones (but I know they hate the poly ship with all 4 boys). Only like 3 poeple ship 2 of those. One of them is "problematic"  because they're childhood friends and therefore incest. (They're not the only childhood friends in this cast. One of the m/f ship from friend group A and several f/f ships are childhood friends so this is weird but this entire fandom is weird and I don't get their logic.) The last one is the most popular m/m ship out of all the inter-group ships. There's honestly nothing problematic about it and they even interact quite a bit but I suspect they'll find a way. I think they'll either go the "he hates this guy actually" route or "anyone who ships this a fetishising fujoshi" route.