#grigor x marial

[ladystrallan]

The weird way The Great frames infidelity

The Great is a show which portrays many extramarital relationships. However, it is quite inconsistent with the way in which they are framed by the narrative. This portrayal results in a strange theme of ‘cheating is okay if you don’t love your spouse’. Let’s look at all of the affairs in the show and how they are framed:

1. Catherine and Leo: this affair is consensual from all sides until it isn’t. Peter is the one who sets up Catherine and Leo, who she ends up falling in love with. Peter only starts to have a problem with this relationship once he falls in love with Catherine, and we all know how that ends. Catherine is not portrayed as in the wrong for cheating, because her marriage to Peter is loveless and he is a horrible person in season 1. Additionally, Peter is also not framed as bad for being jealous, only for killing Leo.

2. Peter and George: the most fucked up relationship in the show. Both are married; George to Grigor who she does love, and Peter to Catherine who he doesn’t love (at first). It is also pretty evident that their relationship started long before Peter married Catherine. There is an obvious power imbalance here. Peter is the absolute ruler of the country and George is his subject. No matter how ambiguous the question of consent is, he could absolutely have her killed if he wanted to. A lot of people forget how volatile and absolutely cutthroat Peter was in season 1. Catherine is hurt when Peter invites her into a threesome with George, but his infidelity largely doesn’t matter after she decides she doesn’t love him. Peter cheating on his wife is pretty much not a big problem at all and just adds to reasons why he is a ‘bad person’ in season 1. There is also a second element that makes this affair ‘worse’. George’s husband is Peter’s best friend. We see just how distraught Grigor is about this affair, finally snapping and trying to kill Peter. George is framed as an ‘evil whore’ for cheating on her husband with his best friend, while no one mentions how Peter is fucking his best friend’s wife. Peter is the emperor of Russia. He literally could have chosen anyone to be his mistress and he chose his best friend’s wife. Additionally, in the 18th century ‘mistress of the king’ was a legitimate position and one of the only ways for women to improve their position in court. She also makes many references to how she only does this to keep her (and Grigor’s) position in court. (See scenes from s1e5 and s1e9)

3. Peter and Joanna: this one is also a mess. Joanna is obviously framed as bad for trying to seduce her daughter’s husband. Peter is framed as in the wrong— but there is a bit of ‘he couldn’t help himself because Joanna seduced him’— but mostly because of who he cheated with. It’s not that big of a deal that he cheated, it’s bad because he fucked her mother. (And then she fell out the window and died and he covered it up)

4. Grigor and Marial: Similarly to Catherine and Leo, this relationship is also ‘person finds true love outside of their evil spouse’ except George was not an abusive murderous tyrant, but that’s besides the point. This affair is framed as very triumphant for Grigor; he has finally escaped his toxic marriage! Even though his relationship with Marial is very toxic. She is constantly rude to him, lies to him, hates his friends, not to mention how she treats him after Peter’s death. She wants to be the only person in his life. When George returns from France to find that her husband has left her for another woman, she is justifiably upset but is framed by the narrative as in the wrong even though she does nothing to break up Grigor and Marial. Marial is also married to Maxim but he’s 11 so it doesn’t really matter, and the fact that he is upset about her infidelity is played for laughs more than anything.

Honorable mentions:

- Hugo and Agnes: they both make passes at other people but are both always in on it

- Catherine and the American ambassador: it’s fine because she does it to get back at Peter for fucking her mother

- Peter’s countless hookups: don’t matter because they mostly happen when he and Catherine are not in love

- Tatyana and Arkady: Arkady gets really defensive at the idea of Tatyana doing anything with Peter, but she wants to take George’s place as his mistress. This is pretty evident when they think Pugachev is Peter and Tatyana is desperately trying to fuck him. It doesn’t amount to much of anything

When you look at all these relationships and how they are framed, one thing stands out. The only person who is vilified for cheating is George. Even though the dynamic between her, Peter, and Grigor is super complex, the one takeaway the narrative and most people in the fandom get is ‘George is an evil slut’. Even when she gets her ‘punishment’ and loses Peter, Grigor, and some of her standing in court, it’s still not enough and people want her dead. The theme turns out to be ‘cheating is only bad if you’re George’.

[a-member-of-minuteswithmandm]

The Great (Hulu) season 3 just came out and we haven't finished watching it YET, but we need to talk about how incredible Catherine and Peter's love is.

Like come on, Peter is an indefensibly horrible man who has done some incredibly unforgivable things (we are still crying over Leo, plus fucking Catherine's mom to dead is batshit), but.....we just can't stop rooting for him and Catherine to somehow get their happily ever after. Is it insane? Yes. Are we planning on changing? No

It's wonderful that Catherine went through with stabbing Peter at the end of season 2 (she thought it was him which is what counts), because even though she lives him with all her heart, she's still trying to make rational decisions

(Season 3 spoilers in this paragraph) Even things like him refusing to kill the man who assaulted him as a child because Catherine didn't want to (he only slipped up after Simitz taunted Grigor), and the fact that he doesn't want to sleep with anyone other than Catherine anymore is so much evidence of his growth!!!

Anyway, the point is that their chemistry is incredible and I am rooting for them till my dying breath! What do you think? Watch out video and let us know!!

[zalrb]

i don’t really care for the great but this moment has been living in my head rent-free

(and might be the basis of my next SE fic)

[frankie-idk]

i’ve literally watched one episode of the great season 3 and i’m already feral i love this show

[magickcandie]

it’s the fact she genuinely looks so sad

I’ve been seeing someone.

[likesomekindofcheese]

Hey! Just recently finished The Great and frankly I’m also upset about Grigor’s relationship between Georgina and Marial, of which I haven’t liked her character since the beginning of the show and can’t seem to fathom why he loves her. Anyways, I can’t seem to find the post where you explain why you don’t like it, and if you haven’t written/posted it, I’d love to see why!

*cracks knuckles*

Hi there! I don't think I made a whole official post about why I don't like it outside of jokes. So let me explain why here. To get one thing over with, it was a personal thing. Gwilym Lee was my celebrity number one husband-boyfriend crush for ages. I began watching The Great for him. And of course I wrote lots of Grigor x reader fics to channel my imagination and lust. So when he became a cheater in season 2, out of nowhere, without any warning...it was a shock. I tried to think through it, justify it, but it never did. It felt like even in my fantasies, I wasn't safe. I wasn't good enough. The minute I slipped up in a romantic relationship, I would be cheated on as punishment. I had panic attacks and couldn't sleep and cried for days. I couldn't even look at the show or images or of Grigor for without crying. It was as if...I was the one cheated on. I literally had to get therapy because it bothered me so much.

Okay, now that this is done, here is my personal take of why Grigor/Marial is bad as a pairing. Also, this is just me being biased and my personal take, so if you ship the pairing...eh, good for you, all the more power to ya. This post isn't for you.

Let's move onto the foundation. I've discussed it a lot with the Queen and legend @ladystrallan but here it is for all y'all. The Big reasons why. Starting with the most important one.

Reason #1) Marial does not actually give a shit about Grigor's well-being and happiness.

Often in fanfics, when Grigor cheats on George, it's because he is sad about George and the OC or Reader or whoever is worried about him. They want him to be happy, wanted, loved, and valued, and chosen. Marial does none of those things. It's never about "how can I help this poor little meow meow feel better?" It's about "what can he do for me" like she's the damn rat from Charlotte's Web.

Reason #2) Marial does not respect Grigor

If Marial did respect Grigor, she would listen to what he says. She would not blab to Catherine about Peter having sex with and accidentally killing her mother. In season 3, when Peter dies- Grigor is sobbing and in a grieving state for his best friend. Marial on the other hand is celebrating his death like the munchkins celebrating a house dropping on the wicked witch in The Wizard of Oz. Let's put it this way- if someone who you loved, someone you were very close to dropped dead out of nowhere, would you want to date someone who celebrated the death as good thing? No. If she did respect him, she would support him in his grief. She would keep her trap shut. Even if she personally didn't like Peter...she would still be there for Grigor's struggle of losing his friend. At the end of the day...Marial will betray her bestie to become a lady again. She is only on her own side and no one else's. She gets some Pet The Dog moments with the serfs...but not with anyone else she has interpersonal connections with at court.

Reason #3) The Affair is selfish.

Marial does none of these things. She starts the affair not because she is worried about his well-being, or happiness, or respect or selflessly genuinely loves him...she starts it because 1) he was a former fling, 2) she is rich again and she can, and 3) to spite Georgiana. Grigor kind of wants to feel happy and alive again- but it's bc George is away from him!

I understand that fiction is not reality. We can use fiction to discuss taboo things. Or even admit that we fantasize about things we know are ethically wrong. It says nothing about us. Just because we fantasize it or like it in fiction doesn't mean we like it in real life. But...

Reason #4) The Writers paint Georgiana's affair as bad and Grigor's affair as good.

We have all of season one to see how much it hurts Grigor to see his wife be Peter's mistress. And I'm not going to pretend it is entirely good. But Georgiana does get a few lines in season 1 after the poisoning that she kind of...HAS to be Peter's mistress. That their high social standing and wealth comes from their close friendship with Peter that in no ways should be tampered with. And this includes the complete lack of boundaries with Georgiana, because he is the absolute ruler emperor. Like that line in Six The Musical- If Peter says it's you, it's you. As far as I know, Peter and Georgiana is consensual other than the implied power balance and she's lucky she likes Peter and he's a good lover. In fact, back in the day, men WOULD offer their wives as missteress to the king because you could get a huge castle and lots of lands and money from it! That's what Mary Boleyn's husband thought when Henry VIII made her his mistress. You don't technically have a choice- might as well make the most out of it.

Yet the writer(s) paint Georgiana as bad and frame Marial as good, as something that Grigor needs to heal (it ain't), that she is his true love (blech) all without taking a big look in the mirror. They don't know how to handle a complex woman as Georgiana but they think framing Marial as a girlboss makes it better (yuck).

On a related note...imagine if we switched the genders? If Grigor was Georgette and Marial was Mark, we have Georgette being lonely and swept up in her exes charms. Giving everything to Mark, even when he crosses her personal boundaries. Despite this, she keeps running back to him, swearing she'll marry him even though he hates her recently dead bestie and doesn't comfort or support her mourning.

If that was the case, there would be riots! People would be all "omg you deserve better! My poor baby! Dump his ass, queen!" But...no. Since we have Miss GirlBoss (tm) Marial, this toxicity is apparently okay.

Reason #5) Grigor's love and loyalty to his wife was part of what made his character so endearing in the first place.

It's like if Peter said "fudge" instead of "fuck," but we all fell in love with Count Dymov because he loved his wife so much. That is why there are so many Grigor fics out there. Becuase the depth of love he has not only for Peter...but for Georgiana. It's not the issue that his honor as a man is insulted to have his wife sleep around...it's because he is genuinely heartbroken and sad about it. That he loves her that much. And that he loves Peter that much too. He's crying when he tries to put a pillow over Peter's face to suffocate him. In fact, Georgiana does care about his well being despite the whole mistress stuff. When he gets scruff out of rebellion, she knocks him out and tenderly gives him a shave. They tease and flirt with each other. She sits on his lap. Who wouldn't want a relationship where you are that wanted, adored, and unconditionally loved? In fact, their only conflict was Peter. If it wasn't for Peter, they would have an idyllic, wonderful marriage. Look up The Great on TV Tropes- they are listed as "Happily Married."

So him having an affair on Georgiana, to where he is given an option to KILL GEORGIANA and abandon her for Marial felt egregiously out of character.

This is not why i signed up. I wanted him and Georgiana to heal and grow and triumph in their love, especially as the series went on and Peter focused more on his romantic relationship with Catherine to where that WAS the show.

So yeah...those are my two cents.

[feralgodmothers]

This might be too straightforward for a show like The Great, but me and my sentimental behind can’t help but root for Catherine x Grigor going forward.

People have brought up before how no one feels the loss of Peter like the two of them do, and… yeah…

(Unspoken and strong shared emotion my beloved 💖)

Anyway, I feel like they may be heading down that road, because when you look at the way the two of them worked together for Paul’s best interests, it comes off like the beginning stages of a new dynamic. They have common goals now because (imo) they’ve been bound together by Peter’s death.

Now, my knowledge of Catherine the Great is limited to the quick scan of her Wikipedia article I did a few months ago, but if I remember right - she never remarried, and her and Grigor were lovers in real life? I know there are some significant differences over how their relationship played out, but still - the show DOES like to pepper in some historical accuracies from time to time. Plus, I think it would serve to make Catherine an interesting mirror to Peter if Catherine were to become best friends with George, and take Grigor as her lover.

I also find it interesting the way things have shifted around when you involve Marial in the mix. Grigor and Marial came together and had the shared experience of supporting/loving their best friends who they thought were making terrible choices by being in love, and now that Peter has died, Marial has put herself on the opposite side of both Grigor AND Catherine by staunchly standing by her hatred of Peter despite their grief over him. What was once just a point of contention now feels like a squaring off. I could see that pushing her further away from Grigor emotionally, to the point where she’s almost like a second George to him (like ‘I love you, but at what cost?’), and we already witnessed it driving a wedge between her and Catherine - opening up the way for George to slip in and become her new best friend.

One more thing I want to touch on, is when Catherine slept with comet guy. She was conflicted because it felt like it was taking her a step further away from Peter, and she said “I don’t want to” (Rip, my heart 💔). I think becoming involved with Grigor would be the most gentle and natural option for her going forward. Comet guy may have scratched an itch, but talking with Grigor about Peter soothed her tired, grieving soul. Grigor’s telling Catherine a story about Peter was the thing that brought the first genuine smile to both of their faces since the loss that broke them.

[macperalta]

I just finished the show. This is such a good fucking show!

Even though i am HEARTBROKEN, through Elisabeth, Grigor and Catherine the show really gave the room to sort of process it and by giving that last kick, really got us out of the pain and invested in how she will keep her reign. Truly smart writing. Like with just 10 episodes, they wrote a love story, a heartbreak and a riveting political play, like only The Great can.

I am still definitely broken about Peter's death. I don't know how the show will do whole seasons without him, and very very selfishly wish they don't make another love for Catherine.

When Elisabeth said basically fuck off to Peter the Great, i was in pain, wishing Peter had also said the same. And elisabeths fate of losing two children to water, my god.

Paul will never know how much Peter loved him. Catherine always humming Their Song. Wearing his clothes. Grigor, the true himbo. So Torn by grief he thinks a box is a good place to keep a child. Immersing himself in bath fully clothed? He is i think the most affected because i don't he truly knows how to live without Peter. Also what's up with Marial? I understand but also dude!!!

Charit Wakefield is so good. Her actual pain in losing Peter, sewn with George's intrinsic manipulation, she is good. Amazing. So is Phoebe Fox as Marial and every single person in this cast because otherwise the insanity of this show could never deliver the emotional impact.

I always liked Nicholas Hoult, but after this show i am completely and Fully obsessed with him. I only hope he'll be back as a ghost next season. (But i like that they didn't bring him back this season, it would've hurt too much). Because as you said his and elles chemistry needs to shine more.

Okay as of now, this is all i have for thoughts. Might have more once I start giffing, but until then you are released from the grips of my 1k words long asks.

i agree with you wholeheartedly!! despite the great loss (lol), the show has proven its ability to still excel w/o peter. the last episode is riveting and freeing. it shows precisely why peter needs to be gone for catherine to be great (of course the show will be great focusing on catherine and peter's love story but the great is never about that) people who are mad that they get rid of peter or say that catherine x peter is the whole point of the show don't understand the show at all. i feel like all of the characters (not just catherine) have a chance to develop in a new direction due to peter's death and that gives the show a fresh air/start🫶 and please do keep sending me your thoughts haha <3

[dummie-vaughn]

can someone explain why we’re not shipping grigor and marial?? the chemistry is real and there and I’m happy grigor and George took their separate ways. Love them both but they’re not right for one another

[ladystrallan]

We got the Marial cut.

So recently I got to see the deleted scenes from season 3. This made it clear that it is not just the writers who seem to hate George, but the editors as well. Multiple scenes that make her look more sympathetic were left on the cutting room floor.

Exhibit A: a scene that confirms my interpretation of why George told Katya to do the play. For those who have not seen this scene, it takes place in S3E7 during Catherine's 'fun day'. Catherine and George are playing a game with the court to 'get to the truth of their lives' where someone gets up on the podium and tells a story and if the people believe it they throw roses, and if they do not they throw turnips. Catherine goes first and George tells her to tell a 'secret she holds in her heart', obviously trying to get her to tell everyone about Peter. Instead, Catherine tells the court a story about stealing her sister's pony. You can see George is upset that Catherine did not tell the truth after she told the court she would never lie to them. This is why George tells Katya to put on the play, Catherine is lying to everyone about Peter's death, making Grigor lie as well, and George would not have found out about one of her best friends being dead if Grigor had not told her.

Exhibit B: a scene that shows how truly devastated George is about Peter. This scene was supposed to take place directly after the tennis scene in Fun. George breaks down in tears in the hall, and then pulls herself together. We very rarely see George cry in the show. I'm pretty sure (need to rewatch to confirm) that this scene and when she talks to Catherine about Peter are the only times we've seen her cry. Ever. She is a survivor and even though she is deeply grieving, she has to pull herself together and keep going like she always does.

Exhibit C: a scene that shows that Grigor still seeks comfort with George. Not sure where exactly in the episode this was supposed to go, but it's from S3E8 Peter and the Wolf. Probably after Grigor discovers Marial at the party celebrating Peter's death. Grigor lays down in bed next to George who is sleeping. And he just stares at her, tears in his eyes.

George is not a bad person. She is deeply grieving just like Catherine and Grigor. All three of them just are dealing with it in different ways. Catherine in her delusion, Grigor turning nihilistic, and George hiding her feelings and taking it out on Catherine who she thinks is keeping a horrible secret. Grigor still loves her but struggles to see what their relationship could be without Peter. It is mind boggling to me that Grigor would propose to Marial after all she did and how disrespectful she was. It just didn't make any sense, much like George trying to marry Paul.

I will post later about my idea for a better storyline for the Dymovs after Peter's death. The one we got was just plain bad, trying and failing to make Marial look better.

[thegreatmadness]

the great’s s3 in a nutshell probably

Peter: You once called me a fool for love, Grigor, and now George refuses to save you because you love another. The ironie  is strong here, Catherine would appreciate it.

Also Peter: I can't believe Catherine really wants to kill me.

Grigor: Well, to be fair, she's been trying to all along.

Peter: I see that now. Mhm. She terrifies me and delights me in the same breath. A bit like my mother. Marvelous. A great love affair, indeed.

[i-put-the-bi-in-biohazard]

Grigor and Marial really be out here being the best couple in the Great

[nyptagypta]

WHY IS NO ONE TALKING MORE ABOUT THE GREAT ON THIS SITE.

IT IS LITERALLY EVERYTHING.

HOT PEOPLE IN PERIOD CLOTHING. CHECK.

ENEMIES TO LOVERS. CHECK.

MURDEROUS COUPLE. CHECK.

SCANDALS. CHECK.

HOT ASS SEXY SEX SCENES. CHECK.

NICHOLAS HOULT'S NAKED ASS. CHECK.

HISTORICAL INACCURACIES. CHECK.

SACHA DHAWAN AS A POSSIBLE DEMISEXUAL NERVOUS AF ADVISOR. CHECK.

i just finished it someone talk to me im emotional.

[marquisoforder]

low quality memes for a high quality show

[thegreatdaily]

Point and counterpoint | The Great | 2x10 “Wedding”

[crazychicke]

THEY RENTED A BABY, so Peter could find their actual son, and GRIGOR IS ON 'PARENTING DUTY' - someone please gif this