#anti grigor/marial

[ladystrallan]

The weird way The Great frames infidelity

The Great is a show which portrays many extramarital relationships. However, it is quite inconsistent with the way in which they are framed by the narrative. This portrayal results in a strange theme of ‘cheating is okay if you don’t love your spouse’. Let’s look at all of the affairs in the show and how they are framed:

1. Catherine and Leo: this affair is consensual from all sides until it isn’t. Peter is the one who sets up Catherine and Leo, who she ends up falling in love with. Peter only starts to have a problem with this relationship once he falls in love with Catherine, and we all know how that ends. Catherine is not portrayed as in the wrong for cheating, because her marriage to Peter is loveless and he is a horrible person in season 1. Additionally, Peter is also not framed as bad for being jealous, only for killing Leo.

2. Peter and George: the most fucked up relationship in the show. Both are married; George to Grigor who she does love, and Peter to Catherine who he doesn’t love (at first). It is also pretty evident that their relationship started long before Peter married Catherine. There is an obvious power imbalance here. Peter is the absolute ruler of the country and George is his subject. No matter how ambiguous the question of consent is, he could absolutely have her killed if he wanted to. A lot of people forget how volatile and absolutely cutthroat Peter was in season 1. Catherine is hurt when Peter invites her into a threesome with George, but his infidelity largely doesn’t matter after she decides she doesn’t love him. Peter cheating on his wife is pretty much not a big problem at all and just adds to reasons why he is a ‘bad person’ in season 1. There is also a second element that makes this affair ‘worse’. George’s husband is Peter’s best friend. We see just how distraught Grigor is about this affair, finally snapping and trying to kill Peter. George is framed as an ‘evil whore’ for cheating on her husband with his best friend, while no one mentions how Peter is fucking his best friend’s wife. Peter is the emperor of Russia. He literally could have chosen anyone to be his mistress and he chose his best friend’s wife. Additionally, in the 18th century ‘mistress of the king’ was a legitimate position and one of the only ways for women to improve their position in court. She also makes many references to how she only does this to keep her (and Grigor’s) position in court. (See scenes from s1e5 and s1e9)

3. Peter and Joanna: this one is also a mess. Joanna is obviously framed as bad for trying to seduce her daughter’s husband. Peter is framed as in the wrong— but there is a bit of ‘he couldn’t help himself because Joanna seduced him’— but mostly because of who he cheated with. It’s not that big of a deal that he cheated, it’s bad because he fucked her mother. (And then she fell out the window and died and he covered it up)

4. Grigor and Marial: Similarly to Catherine and Leo, this relationship is also ‘person finds true love outside of their evil spouse’ except George was not an abusive murderous tyrant, but that’s besides the point. This affair is framed as very triumphant for Grigor; he has finally escaped his toxic marriage! Even though his relationship with Marial is very toxic. She is constantly rude to him, lies to him, hates his friends, not to mention how she treats him after Peter’s death. She wants to be the only person in his life. When George returns from France to find that her husband has left her for another woman, she is justifiably upset but is framed by the narrative as in the wrong even though she does nothing to break up Grigor and Marial. Marial is also married to Maxim but he’s 11 so it doesn’t really matter, and the fact that he is upset about her infidelity is played for laughs more than anything.

Honorable mentions:

- Hugo and Agnes: they both make passes at other people but are both always in on it

- Catherine and the American ambassador: it’s fine because she does it to get back at Peter for fucking her mother

- Peter’s countless hookups: don’t matter because they mostly happen when he and Catherine are not in love

- Tatyana and Arkady: Arkady gets really defensive at the idea of Tatyana doing anything with Peter, but she wants to take George’s place as his mistress. This is pretty evident when they think Pugachev is Peter and Tatyana is desperately trying to fuck him. It doesn’t amount to much of anything

When you look at all these relationships and how they are framed, one thing stands out. The only person who is vilified for cheating is George. Even though the dynamic between her, Peter, and Grigor is super complex, the one takeaway the narrative and most people in the fandom get is ‘George is an evil slut’. Even when she gets her ‘punishment’ and loses Peter, Grigor, and some of her standing in court, it’s still not enough and people want her dead. The theme turns out to be ‘cheating is only bad if you’re George’.

[likesomekindofcheese]

Hey! Just recently finished The Great and frankly I’m also upset about Grigor’s relationship between Georgina and Marial, of which I haven’t liked her character since the beginning of the show and can’t seem to fathom why he loves her. Anyways, I can’t seem to find the post where you explain why you don’t like it, and if you haven’t written/posted it, I’d love to see why!

*cracks knuckles*

Hi there! I don't think I made a whole official post about why I don't like it outside of jokes. So let me explain why here. To get one thing over with, it was a personal thing. Gwilym Lee was my celebrity number one husband-boyfriend crush for ages. I began watching The Great for him. And of course I wrote lots of Grigor x reader fics to channel my imagination and lust. So when he became a cheater in season 2, out of nowhere, without any warning...it was a shock. I tried to think through it, justify it, but it never did. It felt like even in my fantasies, I wasn't safe. I wasn't good enough. The minute I slipped up in a romantic relationship, I would be cheated on as punishment. I had panic attacks and couldn't sleep and cried for days. I couldn't even look at the show or images or of Grigor for without crying. It was as if...I was the one cheated on. I literally had to get therapy because it bothered me so much.

Okay, now that this is done, here is my personal take of why Grigor/Marial is bad as a pairing. Also, this is just me being biased and my personal take, so if you ship the pairing...eh, good for you, all the more power to ya. This post isn't for you.

Let's move onto the foundation. I've discussed it a lot with the Queen and legend @ladystrallan but here it is for all y'all. The Big reasons why. Starting with the most important one.

Reason #1) Marial does not actually give a shit about Grigor's well-being and happiness.

Often in fanfics, when Grigor cheats on George, it's because he is sad about George and the OC or Reader or whoever is worried about him. They want him to be happy, wanted, loved, and valued, and chosen. Marial does none of those things. It's never about "how can I help this poor little meow meow feel better?" It's about "what can he do for me" like she's the damn rat from Charlotte's Web.

Reason #2) Marial does not respect Grigor

If Marial did respect Grigor, she would listen to what he says. She would not blab to Catherine about Peter having sex with and accidentally killing her mother. In season 3, when Peter dies- Grigor is sobbing and in a grieving state for his best friend. Marial on the other hand is celebrating his death like the munchkins celebrating a house dropping on the wicked witch in The Wizard of Oz. Let's put it this way- if someone who you loved, someone you were very close to dropped dead out of nowhere, would you want to date someone who celebrated the death as good thing? No. If she did respect him, she would support him in his grief. She would keep her trap shut. Even if she personally didn't like Peter...she would still be there for Grigor's struggle of losing his friend. At the end of the day...Marial will betray her bestie to become a lady again. She is only on her own side and no one else's. She gets some Pet The Dog moments with the serfs...but not with anyone else she has interpersonal connections with at court.

Reason #3) The Affair is selfish.

Marial does none of these things. She starts the affair not because she is worried about his well-being, or happiness, or respect or selflessly genuinely loves him...she starts it because 1) he was a former fling, 2) she is rich again and she can, and 3) to spite Georgiana. Grigor kind of wants to feel happy and alive again- but it's bc George is away from him!

I understand that fiction is not reality. We can use fiction to discuss taboo things. Or even admit that we fantasize about things we know are ethically wrong. It says nothing about us. Just because we fantasize it or like it in fiction doesn't mean we like it in real life. But...

Reason #4) The Writers paint Georgiana's affair as bad and Grigor's affair as good.

We have all of season one to see how much it hurts Grigor to see his wife be Peter's mistress. And I'm not going to pretend it is entirely good. But Georgiana does get a few lines in season 1 after the poisoning that she kind of...HAS to be Peter's mistress. That their high social standing and wealth comes from their close friendship with Peter that in no ways should be tampered with. And this includes the complete lack of boundaries with Georgiana, because he is the absolute ruler emperor. Like that line in Six The Musical- If Peter says it's you, it's you. As far as I know, Peter and Georgiana is consensual other than the implied power balance and she's lucky she likes Peter and he's a good lover. In fact, back in the day, men WOULD offer their wives as missteress to the king because you could get a huge castle and lots of lands and money from it! That's what Mary Boleyn's husband thought when Henry VIII made her his mistress. You don't technically have a choice- might as well make the most out of it.

Yet the writer(s) paint Georgiana as bad and frame Marial as good, as something that Grigor needs to heal (it ain't), that she is his true love (blech) all without taking a big look in the mirror. They don't know how to handle a complex woman as Georgiana but they think framing Marial as a girlboss makes it better (yuck).

On a related note...imagine if we switched the genders? If Grigor was Georgette and Marial was Mark, we have Georgette being lonely and swept up in her exes charms. Giving everything to Mark, even when he crosses her personal boundaries. Despite this, she keeps running back to him, swearing she'll marry him even though he hates her recently dead bestie and doesn't comfort or support her mourning.

If that was the case, there would be riots! People would be all "omg you deserve better! My poor baby! Dump his ass, queen!" But...no. Since we have Miss GirlBoss (tm) Marial, this toxicity is apparently okay.

Reason #5) Grigor's love and loyalty to his wife was part of what made his character so endearing in the first place.

It's like if Peter said "fudge" instead of "fuck," but we all fell in love with Count Dymov because he loved his wife so much. That is why there are so many Grigor fics out there. Becuase the depth of love he has not only for Peter...but for Georgiana. It's not the issue that his honor as a man is insulted to have his wife sleep around...it's because he is genuinely heartbroken and sad about it. That he loves her that much. And that he loves Peter that much too. He's crying when he tries to put a pillow over Peter's face to suffocate him. In fact, Georgiana does care about his well being despite the whole mistress stuff. When he gets scruff out of rebellion, she knocks him out and tenderly gives him a shave. They tease and flirt with each other. She sits on his lap. Who wouldn't want a relationship where you are that wanted, adored, and unconditionally loved? In fact, their only conflict was Peter. If it wasn't for Peter, they would have an idyllic, wonderful marriage. Look up The Great on TV Tropes- they are listed as "Happily Married."

So him having an affair on Georgiana, to where he is given an option to KILL GEORGIANA and abandon her for Marial felt egregiously out of character.

This is not why i signed up. I wanted him and Georgiana to heal and grow and triumph in their love, especially as the series went on and Peter focused more on his romantic relationship with Catherine to where that WAS the show.

So yeah...those are my two cents.

[magickcandie]

I’m rewatching The Great and I just remembered how much I DESPISE Marial

[magickcandie]

it’s the fact she genuinely looks so sad

I’ve been seeing someone.

[mermaidsirennikita]

thinking of starting either the great or the borgias but idk which to start first ?? which would u recommend

Well lol

That is a complex question to be asking me, but the answer is pretty simple: The Great. It's altogether a more strongly-written, strongly-acted show.

Both shows do come with TWs, imo; rape is either depicted outright or mentioned in both of them, they're pretty murder-heavy. The difference is that almost everything dark in The Great is dealt with... emotionally, but with a ton of dark, satirical humor. While The Borgias has its fair share of dark humor, for all intents and purposes the show is a straightforward historical drama whereas The Great is an anti-historical comedy (I'd arguably dramedy, but the humor is heavy). The Borgias is VERY inaccurate, but it follows.... to a light extent... an idea of the Borgia family's history, and it presents itself as a retelling of their story, whereas The Great literally has a disclaimer at the beginning of every episode about its inaccuracy, and its lack of intention to be accurate.

Both of the shows, for me, lived and died on their main ships. But I would say that The Great generally has stronger plot threads going on in the background, a more interesting array of supporting characters, whereas The Borgias.... Honestly didn't. I was ENTHRALLED by The Borgias while it was on, because I was waiting for that ship to happen. But then it did in the final season and after all was said and done I was left disappointed by the overall skeleton of the show.

And to be clear, both of these ships the shows live and die by are problematic lol. Catherine and Peter on The Great are basically Tom and Jerrying it, trying to kill one another while also falling in love. Cesare and Lucrezia on The Borgias are........ full blooded siblings. But ya know, I watched that show live, and 90% of the fandom was into it. Waiting to watch those people with the same DNA kiss kept the lights on for three seasons. So. To each their own.

Main pros for The Borgias:

--really good main ship, incredibly chemistry.... if you're okay with the incest angle

--individually, Francois Arnaud and Holliday Grainger are very entertaining as "sexy bad man who only becomes worse with every season" and "innocent virgin who grows into a vamp and is like I Can Make Him Worse"

--David Oakes does his fabulous "troubled brother of a more famous historical figure" schtick and it is EXCELLENT

--beautiful costumes, beautiful sets, Much Italy (but really it was Budapest)

--family drama. I don't really care super much for a lot of Jeremy Irons's performance on this show; to me he got waaaaaay too much focus when his character was kind of only important in season 1. However, he does flip a table when trying to tackle David Oakes, his son, at one point, and it is hilarious

Main pros for The Great:

--genuinely EXCELLENT writing, Tony McNamara has been on fire for the past few years and it shows

--Nicholas Hoult and Elle Fanning acting their former child star asses off and having enough chemistry to make you forget that he tries to drown her in the first episode

--a good supporting cast! Aunt Elizabeth is my favorite, but we have Archie, the bisexual shrooms fiend who runs the church; the scheming Swedes; Marial in the first season; Grigor!!!!; Gillian Anderson showing up to be a milf in season 2; Jason Isaacs showing up to be a ~~~~ghost dilf~~~~~ in season 2. Some people enjoy Orlo.

--great costumes also

--due to the fact that this show truly doesn't give a fuck, there is a feeling of excitement and unpredictability

Both of these shows feature Sebastian de Souza as Aw Man, That Poor Guy Who Really Shouldn't Be In The Middle of This Love Triangle, Shucks He Is In A Bad Spot. I will say that this is MUCH funnier on The Borgias, as in this case the other two people in the triangle are again, FULL BLOODED SIBLINGS, and he's like oh this is an easy win for me, I'M NOT HER BROTHER and they're like lol who knows

So. Watch both I say, but watch them knowing that The Great is a lot better.

[ladystrallan]

The writers of The Great: Grigor and George are over! He’s with Marial now!

Me, going down with my ship:

[ladystrallan]

We got the Marial cut.

So recently I got to see the deleted scenes from season 3. This made it clear that it is not just the writers who seem to hate George, but the editors as well. Multiple scenes that make her look more sympathetic were left on the cutting room floor.

Exhibit A: a scene that confirms my interpretation of why George told Katya to do the play. For those who have not seen this scene, it takes place in S3E7 during Catherine's 'fun day'. Catherine and George are playing a game with the court to 'get to the truth of their lives' where someone gets up on the podium and tells a story and if the people believe it they throw roses, and if they do not they throw turnips. Catherine goes first and George tells her to tell a 'secret she holds in her heart', obviously trying to get her to tell everyone about Peter. Instead, Catherine tells the court a story about stealing her sister's pony. You can see George is upset that Catherine did not tell the truth after she told the court she would never lie to them. This is why George tells Katya to put on the play, Catherine is lying to everyone about Peter's death, making Grigor lie as well, and George would not have found out about one of her best friends being dead if Grigor had not told her.

Exhibit B: a scene that shows how truly devastated George is about Peter. This scene was supposed to take place directly after the tennis scene in Fun. George breaks down in tears in the hall, and then pulls herself together. We very rarely see George cry in the show. I'm pretty sure (need to rewatch to confirm) that this scene and when she talks to Catherine about Peter are the only times we've seen her cry. Ever. She is a survivor and even though she is deeply grieving, she has to pull herself together and keep going like she always does.

Exhibit C: a scene that shows that Grigor still seeks comfort with George. Not sure where exactly in the episode this was supposed to go, but it's from S3E8 Peter and the Wolf. Probably after Grigor discovers Marial at the party celebrating Peter's death. Grigor lays down in bed next to George who is sleeping. And he just stares at her, tears in his eyes.

George is not a bad person. She is deeply grieving just like Catherine and Grigor. All three of them just are dealing with it in different ways. Catherine in her delusion, Grigor turning nihilistic, and George hiding her feelings and taking it out on Catherine who she thinks is keeping a horrible secret. Grigor still loves her but struggles to see what their relationship could be without Peter. It is mind boggling to me that Grigor would propose to Marial after all she did and how disrespectful she was. It just didn't make any sense, much like George trying to marry Paul.

I will post later about my idea for a better storyline for the Dymovs after Peter's death. The one we got was just plain bad, trying and failing to make Marial look better.

[ladystrallan]

Okay… I’m being forced to rewatch Grigor/Marial scenes for fic research and in episode 6, Grigor says this whole thing about how he noticed Marial every time she entered a room. EXCUSE ME??? YOU WERE (and still are) MARRIED, SIR. How can you be so upset about George/Peter, when you’ve been thirsting over another woman for years! I can’t…

[ladystrallan]

Rant about George hate :(

So I just found the subreddit for The Great and all the George hate on there made me sad :(

I feel like people who like Grigor but hate George are kinda sexist, because they both made moves against Catherine, and stayed loyal to Peter, even suggesting he kill her. I think Grigor actually did more to sabotage Catherine’s reign with reading Peter’s pamphlet at her breakfast. I get that George was cheating on Grigor and that’s obviously bad, but I think a lot of people forget the implications of Peter being the emperor (formerly I guess) and how the power imbalance might influence her ability to say no to him. Yes, George is self serving most of the time, but she would never betray the people she loves (namely Peter and Grigor). Unlike Marial, who is also self serving and has betrayed her ‘best friend’ several times. If you are a Marial fan but hate George, you need to reevaluate your life choices. George is smart and uses what she can (sex) to keep her position. I think a lot of people get put off by women who are comfortable with their sexuality. I would probably feel differently about the cheating if she was sleeping around or just fucking some random guy that wasn’t the emperor. I do think her and Grigor need couples therapy, but they should get back together in season 3. Also, kinda random but I found out that George and I have the same MBTI personality type, so that’s cool. Message me if you like George and we can commiserate about the absurd amount of hate she (wrongly) gets.

[ladystrallan]

About George hate (again)

I’ve noticed a lot of George hate in the fandom. People saying that she is a bitch, two faced, a terrible person. I think the hate for George is entirely unwarranted, especially given the lack of hate for characters like Peter and Marial. George’s biggest ‘crime’ in the show was sleeping with Peter while married to Grigor. Even though this is bad, and she should not get a free pass for this, I think people tend to disregard two things. One, the implication that since Peter was emperor during the affair, George might not have been in a position to say no to him. The second is Peter’s part in the affair. People hate George for cheating on Grigor, but don’t hate Peter for continually sleeping with his best friend’s wife. I think that is an equally bad thing to do and it is sexist to hate George for her part in the affair but not Peter. I don’t think they ever loved each other romantically, but that’s another thing. George has never done anything worse than other characters like Marial and Peter, yet she gets a disproportionate amount of hate from the fandom. Cheating on her spouse? So have Peter, Catherine, Marial, and Grigor. Going against Catherine? So have Peter, Grigor, Marial, and Archie. George is smart, uses what she can to keep her position in court (and her husband’s position), and even helps Catherine on multiple occasions. George has never thrown her two best friends (Peter and Grigor) under the bus, unlike Marial, who lies to and betrays Catherine, her ‘best friend’, any time it benefits her. I think George was actually a good friend to Catherine this season and I would love to see their friendship developed further. George would be a good person for Catherine to have on her side and use strategically. I felt really bad for George this season since she lost everything she once had (her husband, her position in court, Peter). We also found out that George was also “messed with” by Simitz when she was a kid. This is in addition to her late father’s gambling and the trauma she has from that. George is my favourite character in the show and she is so much more complex than people make her out to be. I think she deserves more love from the fandom, or at least less hate.

[ladystrallan]

Not an ask, but really a statement. Glad to see more people call out Marial. It was unfair how they treated Georgina’s character. On multiple occasion we’ve seen how rude, and selfish Marial is and yet she’s put on a platform. Have a good day from another anti Marial/Grigor fan

Hi! Always nice to see someone else who doesn’t hate on George for no reason and sees how toxic Grigor/Marial is. I have so many thoughts about this topic so probably expect more pro George anti Grigor/Marial rant posts lol

[ladystrallan]

Me when I find out someone ships Grigor and Marial

Just making my views on their relationship known…

[ladystrallan]

What I would serve the characters of The Great at an ice cream shop

(This is a bit of a part two because I did this with Versailles characters)

George: Cookie dough flurry

The best and most delicious thing on the menu imo. The cookie dough at our shop is so good, and of course I would give the best to my darling George <3

Grigor: Chocolate soft serve in a waffle cone

He’s a simple guy who probably likes the classics. He has disappointed me lately so he doesn’t get anything too special. But at the end of the day he’s a sad guy who probably needs some ice cream

Peter: Two scoops of neon kid

He is a bit childish (probably because his childhood sucked) so I think he would enjoy this flavour. He would probably demand two scoops, and as a reward for his character development in s2, I’ll give it to him

Catherine: child twist

I feel like Catherine wouldn’t want anything too elaborate, but I’m also giving her a child size because I think she needs to be knocked down a few pegs

Aunt Elizabeth: two scoops of sorbetto swirl

Why do I get dairy free vibes from Aunt Elizabeth??? Sorbetto swirl (lemon, raspberry, and mango) is very colourful and fruity which reminds me of her. Two scoops because she deserves it.

Tatyana: Birthday cake in a sprinkle waffle cone

Lots of sprinkles for my favourite bimbo! I feel like she would love birthday cake ice cream

Marial: an empty cup

Similar to Madame de Maintenon I would make her watch everyone else get their ice cream, but I think it would be funnier to give her an empty cup rather than nothing.

Let me know if you want a part 2!

[ladystrallan]

The Great Season 2 Thoughts (part 2)

Spoiler warning for episodes 4-6!

Episode 4:

- I miss George already :(

- I loved the baby shower (especially Grigor’s outfit and dance moves)

- NO GRIGOR/MARIAL

- Velementov is a real one for shooting for Catherine like that

- Tatyana and Arkady: murder duo (hilarious)

- Kinda liked that ottoman guy though

Episode 5:

- Catherine and Peter have SO much chemistry omg!!!

- Again, NO GRIGOR/MARIAL

- George, please come back!

- Love the Catherine and Archie friendship(?)

- Basil needs to go. Like I get he’s Leo’s cousin but still

- I kinda ship Aunt Elizabeth and the doctor guy

- Velementov and Peter friendship??? Kinda love it (he’s like the dad he never had)

- Catherine and Peter dancing <3

Episode 6:

- I hope this is not a permanent occurrence, NO GRIGOR/MARIAL!!!

- Ngl the girls are kinda right, Catherine

- Not Archie kissing Basil lol

- Shakey is a bit of an icon (rip)

- Unpopular opinion: Catherine is just as impulsive as Peter

- Why do I kinda want Peter back??? Probably because him leading is best for G&G (he just needs some personal growth)

- Seriously Catherine, what did you think was going to happen when you destroyed the entire economic structure of the country in one fell swoop? (very bad idea might I add) maybe just make it so they aren’t beaten and have better living conditions??? But then again, Catherine isn’t against beatings because she did it to Peter. I am NOT anti-Catherine, I just think she can be a big hypocrite sometimes.

- Omg Marial killing Lady Svenska

- Marial, go fuck Velementov or something you’ve both killed a Svenska you have that in common just STAY AWAY FROM GRIGOR

- Grigor/Marial is making me so mad :( I am literally in a rage :(

- Brb, waiting for George to come back from France

More thoughts coming soon!

[magickcandie]

definitely agree! (Especially Gwilym as celeb husband and the only reason why I watched the show)

The way Marial was about Peter’s death was especially annoying. I hated when Grigor found them at the party and he said “I will never love anyone the way I loved him” and she had the literal nerve to make it about herself!! Let alone the annoyance when she refuses to have accept that Paul is really going into ownership with Grigor and she’d rather just ignore the fact he’s come to love the kid the way he loved Peter. I can’t with her

Hey! Just recently finished The Great and frankly I’m also upset about Grigor’s relationship between Georgina and Marial, of which I haven’t liked her character since the beginning of the show and can’t seem to fathom why he loves her. Anyways, I can’t seem to find the post where you explain why you don’t like it, and if you haven’t written/posted it, I’d love to see why!

*cracks knuckles*

Hi there! I don't think I made a whole official post about why I don't like it outside of jokes. So let me explain why here. To get one thing over with, it was a personal thing. Gwilym Lee was my celebrity number one husband-boyfriend crush for ages. I began watching The Great for him. And of course I wrote lots of Grigor x reader fics to channel my imagination and lust. So when he became a cheater in season 2, out of nowhere, without any warning...it was a shock. I tried to think through it, justify it, but it never did. It felt like even in my fantasies, I wasn't safe. I wasn't good enough. The minute I slipped up in a romantic relationship, I would be cheated on as punishment. I had panic attacks and couldn't sleep and cried for days. I couldn't even look at the show or images or of Grigor for without crying. It was as if...I was the one cheated on. I literally had to get therapy because it bothered me so much.

Okay, now that this is done, here is my personal take of why Grigor/Marial is bad as a pairing. Also, this is just me being biased and my personal take, so if you ship the pairing...eh, good for you, all the more power to ya. This post isn't for you.

Let's move onto the foundation. I've discussed it a lot with the Queen and legend @ladystrallan but here it is for all y'all. The Big reasons why. Starting with the most important one.

Reason #1) Marial does not actually give a shit about Grigor's well-being and happiness.

Often in fanfics, when Grigor cheats on George, it's because he is sad about George and the OC or Reader or whoever is worried about him. They want him to be happy, wanted, loved, and valued, and chosen. Marial does none of those things. It's never about "how can I help this poor little meow meow feel better?" It's about "what can he do for me" like she's the damn rat from Charlotte's Web.

Reason #2) Marial does not respect Grigor

If Marial did respect Grigor, she would listen to what he says. She would not blab to Catherine about Peter having sex with and accidentally killing her mother. In season 3, when Peter dies- Grigor is sobbing and in a grieving state for his best friend. Marial on the other hand is celebrating his death like the munchkins celebrating a house dropping on the wicked witch in The Wizard of Oz. Let's put it this way- if someone who you loved, someone you were very close to dropped dead out of nowhere, would you want to date someone who celebrated the death as good thing? No. If she did respect him, she would support him in his grief. She would keep her trap shut. Even if she personally didn't like Peter...she would still be there for Grigor's struggle of losing his friend. At the end of the day...Marial will betray her bestie to become a lady again. She is only on her own side and no one else's. She gets some Pet The Dog moments with the serfs...but not with anyone else she has interpersonal connections with at court.

Reason #3) The Affair is selfish.

Marial does none of these things. She starts the affair not because she is worried about his well-being, or happiness, or respect or selflessly genuinely loves him...she starts it because 1) he was a former fling, 2) she is rich again and she can, and 3) to spite Georgiana. Grigor kind of wants to feel happy and alive again- but it's bc George is away from him!

I understand that fiction is not reality. We can use fiction to discuss taboo things. Or even admit that we fantasize about things we know are ethically wrong. It says nothing about us. Just because we fantasize it or like it in fiction doesn't mean we like it in real life. But...

Reason #4) The Writers paint Georgiana's affair as bad and Grigor's affair as good.

We have all of season one to see how much it hurts Grigor to see his wife be Peter's mistress. And I'm not going to pretend it is entirely good. But Georgiana does get a few lines in season 1 after the poisoning that she kind of...HAS to be Peter's mistress. That their high social standing and wealth comes from their close friendship with Peter that in no ways should be tampered with. And this includes the complete lack of boundaries with Georgiana, because he is the absolute ruler emperor. Like that line in Six The Musical- If Peter says it's you, it's you. As far as I know, Peter and Georgiana is consensual other than the implied power balance and she's lucky she likes Peter and he's a good lover. In fact, back in the day, men WOULD offer their wives as missteress to the king because you could get a huge castle and lots of lands and money from it! That's what Mary Boleyn's husband thought when Henry VIII made her his mistress. You don't technically have a choice- might as well make the most out of it.

Yet the writer(s) paint Georgiana as bad and frame Marial as good, as something that Grigor needs to heal (it ain't), that she is his true love (blech) all without taking a big look in the mirror. They don't know how to handle a complex woman as Georgiana but they think framing Marial as a girlboss makes it better (yuck).

On a related note...imagine if we switched the genders? If Grigor was Georgette and Marial was Mark, we have Georgette being lonely and swept up in her exes charms. Giving everything to Mark, even when he crosses her personal boundaries. Despite this, she keeps running back to him, swearing she'll marry him even though he hates her recently dead bestie and doesn't comfort or support her mourning.

If that was the case, there would be riots! People would be all "omg you deserve better! My poor baby! Dump his ass, queen!" But...no. Since we have Miss GirlBoss (tm) Marial, this toxicity is apparently okay.

Reason #5) Grigor's love and loyalty to his wife was part of what made his character so endearing in the first place.

It's like if Peter said "fudge" instead of "fuck," but we all fell in love with Count Dymov because he loved his wife so much. That is why there are so many Grigor fics out there. Becuase the depth of love he has not only for Peter...but for Georgiana. It's not the issue that his honor as a man is insulted to have his wife sleep around...it's because he is genuinely heartbroken and sad about it. That he loves her that much. And that he loves Peter that much too. He's crying when he tries to put a pillow over Peter's face to suffocate him. In fact, Georgiana does care about his well being despite the whole mistress stuff. When he gets scruff out of rebellion, she knocks him out and tenderly gives him a shave. They tease and flirt with each other. She sits on his lap. Who wouldn't want a relationship where you are that wanted, adored, and unconditionally loved? In fact, their only conflict was Peter. If it wasn't for Peter, they would have an idyllic, wonderful marriage. Look up The Great on TV Tropes- they are listed as "Happily Married."

So him having an affair on Georgiana, to where he is given an option to KILL GEORGIANA and abandon her for Marial felt egregiously out of character.

This is not why i signed up. I wanted him and Georgiana to heal and grow and triumph in their love, especially as the series went on and Peter focused more on his romantic relationship with Catherine to where that WAS the show.

So yeah...those are my two cents.

[smolvenger]

Hello there! Yup, can’t stand her either.

With writing, I heard that in order to portray a romantic relationship in a healthy way, there has to be interest, respect, and kindness. With Grigor and Big Mouth Marial there is interest…and that’s it. Grigor respects her and is way kinder to her than she deserves…but that is one sided!

Also, wtf Marial at the funeral. If he IS the love of your life, let him grieve!! Don’t make it about you! And the fact that little Paul is all that’s left of Peter, what the hell???? Like, Grigor wants to be involved in the life of his friends kid? What if YOU got pregnant, Miss Big Mouth Marial, and decided not to be involved and leave you to deal with it, hmmmm?

Me trying to see what outside of sex and being his v card taker Grigor sees in Marial:

Hey! Just recently finished The Great and frankly I’m also upset about Grigor’s relationship between Georgina and Marial, of which I haven’t liked her character since the beginning of the show and can’t seem to fathom why he loves her. Anyways, I can’t seem to find the post where you explain why you don’t like it, and if you haven’t written/posted it, I’d love to see why!

*cracks knuckles*

Hi there! I don't think I made a whole official post about why I don't like it outside of jokes. So let me explain why here. To get one thing over with, it was a personal thing. Gwilym Lee was my celebrity number one husband-boyfriend crush for ages. I began watching The Great for him. And of course I wrote lots of Grigor x reader fics to channel my imagination and lust. So when he became a cheater in season 2, out of nowhere, without any warning...it was a shock. I tried to think through it, justify it, but it never did. It felt like even in my fantasies, I wasn't safe. I wasn't good enough. The minute I slipped up in a romantic relationship, I would be cheated on as punishment. I had panic attacks and couldn't sleep and cried for days. I couldn't even look at the show or images or of Grigor for without crying. It was as if...I was the one cheated on. I literally had to get therapy because it bothered me so much.

Okay, now that this is done, here is my personal take of why Grigor/Marial is bad as a pairing. Also, this is just me being biased and my personal take, so if you ship the pairing...eh, good for you, all the more power to ya. This post isn't for you.

Let's move onto the foundation. I've discussed it a lot with the Queen and legend @ladystrallan but here it is for all y'all. The Big reasons why. Starting with the most important one.

Reason #1) Marial does not actually give a shit about Grigor's well-being and happiness.

Often in fanfics, when Grigor cheats on George, it's because he is sad about George and the OC or Reader or whoever is worried about him. They want him to be happy, wanted, loved, and valued, and chosen. Marial does none of those things. It's never about "how can I help this poor little meow meow feel better?" It's about "what can he do for me" like she's the damn rat from Charlotte's Web.

Reason #2) Marial does not respect Grigor

If Marial did respect Grigor, she would listen to what he says. She would not blab to Catherine about Peter having sex with and accidentally killing her mother. In season 3, when Peter dies- Grigor is sobbing and in a grieving state for his best friend. Marial on the other hand is celebrating his death like the munchkins celebrating a house dropping on the wicked witch in The Wizard of Oz. Let's put it this way- if someone who you loved, someone you were very close to dropped dead out of nowhere, would you want to date someone who celebrated the death as good thing? No. If she did respect him, she would support him in his grief. She would keep her trap shut. Even if she personally didn't like Peter...she would still be there for Grigor's struggle of losing his friend. At the end of the day...Marial will betray her bestie to become a lady again. She is only on her own side and no one else's. She gets some Pet The Dog moments with the serfs...but not with anyone else she has interpersonal connections with at court.

Reason #3) The Affair is selfish.

Marial does none of these things. She starts the affair not because she is worried about his well-being, or happiness, or respect or selflessly genuinely loves him...she starts it because 1) he was a former fling, 2) she is rich again and she can, and 3) to spite Georgiana. Grigor kind of wants to feel happy and alive again- but it's bc George is away from him!

I understand that fiction is not reality. We can use fiction to discuss taboo things. Or even admit that we fantasize about things we know are ethically wrong. It says nothing about us. Just because we fantasize it or like it in fiction doesn't mean we like it in real life. But...

Reason #4) The Writers paint Georgiana's affair as bad and Grigor's affair as good.

We have all of season one to see how much it hurts Grigor to see his wife be Peter's mistress. And I'm not going to pretend it is entirely good. But Georgiana does get a few lines in season 1 after the poisoning that she kind of...HAS to be Peter's mistress. That their high social standing and wealth comes from their close friendship with Peter that in no ways should be tampered with. And this includes the complete lack of boundaries with Georgiana, because he is the absolute ruler emperor. Like that line in Six The Musical- If Peter says it's you, it's you. As far as I know, Peter and Georgiana is consensual other than the implied power balance and she's lucky she likes Peter and he's a good lover. In fact, back in the day, men WOULD offer their wives as missteress to the king because you could get a huge castle and lots of lands and money from it! That's what Mary Boleyn's husband thought when Henry VIII made her his mistress. You don't technically have a choice- might as well make the most out of it.

Yet the writer(s) paint Georgiana as bad and frame Marial as good, as something that Grigor needs to heal (it ain't), that she is his true love (blech) all without taking a big look in the mirror. They don't know how to handle a complex woman as Georgiana but they think framing Marial as a girlboss makes it better (yuck).

On a related note...imagine if we switched the genders? If Grigor was Georgette and Marial was Mark, we have Georgette being lonely and swept up in her exes charms. Giving everything to Mark, even when he crosses her personal boundaries. Despite this, she keeps running back to him, swearing she'll marry him even though he hates her recently dead bestie and doesn't comfort or support her mourning.

If that was the case, there would be riots! People would be all "omg you deserve better! My poor baby! Dump his ass, queen!" But...no. Since we have Miss GirlBoss (tm) Marial, this toxicity is apparently okay.

Reason #5) Grigor's love and loyalty to his wife was part of what made his character so endearing in the first place.

It's like if Peter said "fudge" instead of "fuck," but we all fell in love with Count Dymov because he loved his wife so much. That is why there are so many Grigor fics out there. Becuase the depth of love he has not only for Peter...but for Georgiana. It's not the issue that his honor as a man is insulted to have his wife sleep around...it's because he is genuinely heartbroken and sad about it. That he loves her that much. And that he loves Peter that much too. He's crying when he tries to put a pillow over Peter's face to suffocate him. In fact, Georgiana does care about his well being despite the whole mistress stuff. When he gets scruff out of rebellion, she knocks him out and tenderly gives him a shave. They tease and flirt with each other. She sits on his lap. Who wouldn't want a relationship where you are that wanted, adored, and unconditionally loved? In fact, their only conflict was Peter. If it wasn't for Peter, they would have an idyllic, wonderful marriage. Look up The Great on TV Tropes- they are listed as "Happily Married."

So him having an affair on Georgiana, to where he is given an option to KILL GEORGIANA and abandon her for Marial felt egregiously out of character.

This is not why i signed up. I wanted him and Georgiana to heal and grow and triumph in their love, especially as the series went on and Peter focused more on his romantic relationship with Catherine to where that WAS the show.

So yeah...those are my two cents.