#gos2 finale

[fishmotif]

idk what you guys are complaining about, if you watched the finale in the right order you'd get it 🤨

[tardxsblues]

Because you and Mr. Fell don't ever talk to each other. We talk all the time. We've been talking for millions of years. Bla-bla-bla-bla-bla-bla-bla-bla-bla. I say something brilliant, and he says something unintentionally funny back. It's great. You never say what you're really thinking.

[my-hyperfixations]

This scene:

[fuckyeahgoodomens]

David and Michael talk about the S2 Finale 🥺

David and Michael interview with Kim Roots from TVLine, about the S2 finale. July 2023 [S2 Promo: C: I could always rely on you. You could always rely on me. We're a team, a grou p. And we spend our existence pretending that we aren't.]

KR: What happens in the finale between Crowley and Aziraphale is something that some fans have been yearning for a very long time. Was there a pressure? Did you have any conversations about what this might mean to the fandom? Talk to me a little bit about like when you found out this was going to happen and kind of your initial reactions.

Michael: Well, you know, the relationship between Aziraphale and Crowley, obviously, is something that the audience seemed to really warm to, and obviously was part of why the idea of doing Season 2, you know, seemed like it could be something that could work. Following how that relationship develops has been something that the audiences have really got into. So we've taken that very seriously, and Neil takes it incredibly seriously. So tracking that relationship and that journey between them, because obviously on the surface, they seem like they're complete opposites, and yet clearly, they're kind of compelled towards each other in all kinds of ways. And now that they've been being cut off from their respective head offices, they only have each other, so that pulls them together a lot more, doesn't it? And the stakes are always high around them, and they sort of end up going on a journey together, but it takes them to different places and where we leave things at the end..

David: Well, that's the thing. Nothing is resolved. So whatever happens and whatever you may have seen at the end of Episode 6, it's also important to note that that doesn't finish the story. In fact, that just sor of ruptures things.

Michael: It's the start of another story.

[S2 Promo: A: I forgive. C: Don't bother.]

David:I think you have to be careful if there is something delicate that has generated a lot of excitement about where will that end up. As soon as you end up there, as soon as you finish that story, it's all over, isn't it?

Michael: You don't really want to find out who killed Laura Palmer. [Twin Peaks series plot]

David: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

KR Like you said, David, there is no resolution, which made me very happy because this feels primed for a third go-around at some point. Have you had any conversations about that with Neil about possibly keeping the story going?

David: Well, if you've seen where Series 2 ends, there's certainly the teasing of further tales to come, isn't there? Whether we will ever find out what those tales are is in the lap of... well, certainly not on our lap.

Michael: No, it's on the laps of the audience.

David: Laps of the audience, yes.

Michael: We are sitting firmly...

David: In the tops of the audience as it streaming.

Michael: Yeah, it's not in my lap. I know that. When we first started Series 1, we always knew that the story went a lot further because Neil and Terry had talked about it. They just hadn't written it down, but we knew there were ideas, and we have not yet reached the end of those ideas.

David: No.

Michael: You know, if we get a chance to tell more of this story, it does already exist.

David: Yes.

[ineffable-suffering]

The meaning of "I forgive you"

Alright, hello again, I involuntarily dipped for a bit because real life outside of this lovely Tumblr Good Omens bubble got a little bit stressful, but! I'm back for a quick little post to say that I'm currently reading the script book for Season 1 and seeing this line again, spelled out on paper, just shone some more light on the whole „I forgive you“-scene of Season 2 for me again.

Because really, this first time Az says it to Crowley in front of the bookshop tells us exactly what the second time during the Final Fifteen means.

Aziraphale is not forgiving Crowley for kissing him. Or for using this moment to confess and make things explicit between them.

No, Aziraphale is forgiving Crowley for not trusting and believing (in) him.

Let's shove the Final Fifteen to the side for a second and look at this scene from Season 1 under the cut.

The situation at hand: The World is ending, with utmost certainty. In addition, Crowley is absolutely f*cked and Hell is out to get him. He tries to apologise for their Bandstand fallout and explain the other two things to Az (poorly, but he tries). Because to Crowley, Armageddon is a done deal already. Wherever the actual Antichrist is, he's gonna come into his power and the World will be wiped out for Heaven and Hell to wage their war on. Also, Hastur is coming to kick his demon ass. Time to dip!

And yet, Aziraphale doesn't want to come with him. He is adamant that he will be able to reach the Almighty, talk to Her and turn this around. Because if Aziraphale, Guardian of the Eastern Gate, thinks there's even the slightest, tiniest morsel of a chance that he can turn things around the right way, he will do it. Even if it sounds ridiculous. Even if it's a lost cause to everyone else. Even if all the other angels gang up on him and (literally) beat him up.

Even if Crowley calls him stupid.

Aziraphale decides not to be offended by this.

Because this is what he does. This is what a Guardian does. He stays and protects to ward off the intrusion, until the very last second.

Now listen, I'm the last person to blame Crowley for intrinsically wanting to choose Flight over Fight in this very situation, because Lord knows (literally) what happened to him back when he chose Fight and lost.

But at the same time we have to keep in mind that despite his last name, Aziraphale never Fell. He never made the horrible experience of being chucked away by the one who made you to love Her because you chose to question her ways. And yes, in so many ways this choice of his, to still believe that he can change something by questioning and suggesting (both here and in S2), is utterly maddening and hurtful to Crowley. Because it's a mirror of what Crowley himself did and a reminder of just how big the price he had to pay was. Aziraphale seemingly not realizing or understanding this stings. It does.

And yet.

Yet Aziraphale's choice to not take no for an answer, to not let a punch to the gut derail him from his plan, to not let even the most definitive thing such as Armageddon keep him from fighting back, is the one thing that ends up saving the World.

Because even when it all seems impossible and completely hopeless and bloody Satan himself is erupting from the pits of Hell, ...

... Aziraphale picks up his sword and fights back.

And he wins.

Not without help, of course. But might I remind you of what got Crowley to cooperate and not simply surrender like he'd almost done that second?

You might not see it at first, but tucked in between all the posh hedonism, hidden away underneath that tightly buttoned waistcoat of his, Aziraphale is a fighter. And a good one at that. I mean, for Someone's sake, he got discorporated, beamed himself down back to Earth, found Crowley somehow, possessed a psychic prostitute (love you, Madame Tracy), rode a scooter all the way to Taddfield and fought off Lucifer with sheer willpower (and a bit of emotional coercion).

Aziraphale can fight. Smart and hard. And not only that: He can win, too. And he knows it. Because he believes, truly, firmly and wholly, that he can make things right. It's the only thing he will settle for. This, ladies and gents, this is how he ends up saving the World, together with Crowley, Adam and the rest.

Because he didn't accept no as an answer. He didn't look at the impossible and accept it as such. Even when Crowley thought him to be an idiot for trying and even after his initial attempt at talking to God had failed, Aziraphale still found a way to stop The Big Bad Thing from happening.

Which is exactly what his plan is when he ends up being forced to come back to Heaven by the Metatron. (If you still believe this was a voluntary choice, read here). And which is exactly why he is so hurt and still ends up forgiving Crowley for the fact that Crowley doesn't end up coming with him. Doesn't end up understanding, trusting and believing (in) him, just like all the way back at the end of the World in Season 1.

Aziraphale decides not to be offended by this.

[yowlthinks]

The Final 15: Aziraphale's decision matrix in a no-choice situation

I have been thinking and reading about what happened since season 2 came out, and I think I have finally been able to put it all down into a logical sequence. This meta is the result of both countless posts I have read on tumblr and my own thoughts.

But let us start from the beginning, which is essentially Metatron's offer:

Notice how Aziraphale consistently declines the honour, as Metatron keeps pressing. When he says that Aziraphale is the perfect choice he also mentions that Aziraphale "is a leader, is honest and doesn't just tell people what they want to hear", which is of course a lie and they both know it. Initially, Aziraphale can't deny it because he can't just go "well, actually, I have been doing exactly that, stretching the truth in my reports and on a few notable occasions outright lying to my superiors and even God Herself". So he deflects to "where will I get my coffee?", preferring to highlight his attachment to Earth. In response to that Metatron makes his final move: he knows about Aziraphale's partnership with Crowley, and that means he knows about the lies.

This threat to Crowley gets Aziraphale to the following decision matrix:

Telling Crowley about the threat is useless. Aziraphale knows he will suggest running away together, and that puts them both in danger. Similarly, running away alone / hiding Aziraphale will not be a good move either because Metatron will not hesitate to harm Crowley and use him as a bait for Aziraphale.

So this means that Aziraphale's best option is not telling Crowley about the threat and persuading him to come with Aziraphale, his second best being going alone. Both of these offer best safety guarantees for Crowley, and this is something Aziraphale would not compromise on.

So our angel launches into this entire speech about making a difference. These are the only arguments he can come up with on the fly regarding why he took the position (the position he does not want! At a place he does not want to go back to!). And he is terrified that Metatron will come back and he won't be able to finish this conversation, won't be able to persuade Crowley. Add to this the fact that Crowley is clearly trying to have an important conversation with him too. A conversation they would like to have in private, but which Aziraphale knows can be interrupted at any moment. That's why he tries to stop Crowley, that's why he is constantly glancing out of the window.

Aziraphale is angry and frustrated, but this is mostly anger at Metatron who put him into this position, at the unfairness of it all, at himself for not being able to get Crowley to agree. It is the despair that just when Crowley confesses his love, instead of being able to say "I love you" back, he has to swallow it down again. Aziraphale's "I forgive you" is "I forgive you for not trusting me to make the best choice for us both", "I forgive you for not agreeing to go with me, I understand why you declined". And this aligns neatly with the theory about the Nightingale song in the car being a message from Aziraphale: it is his way of saying "I love you, I chose you, I chose our side, and that’s why I had to go".

And you know what? Crowley is a clever noodle and he knows Aziraphale well, so he will figure it out, he will spot this out of character, under-duress-only style of decision-making and start untangling that mystery.

We all know how it ends, and I can't wait to see it!

UPD: to put the above in perspective, see this meta with graphs!

[tessasilverswan]

happy 1st birthday to the most heartbreaking and obsession-inducing kiss in tv history

[microclown]

Crowley and Aziraphale's communication in the final 15 is bad, but going back through the season I've realized it's even more prevalent than I thought…

not all of these miscommunications are a problem, but they barely have one interaction that doesn't include some form of lack of communication, so I thought it was worth highlighting the pattern

List under the cut, analysis at the end

Aziraphale doesn't tell Crowley about the naked man, Nina does

Aziraphale doesn't tell him it's Gabriel, he tell him it's Jim, Crowley sees it's Gabriel

"I feel like your exactly and my exactly are different exactlys" (aka miscommunication- assuming they're on the same page when they're not)

Cowley doesn't tell Aziraphale the stakes, that he could be erased from the book of life for helping Gabriel

The Apology dance is literally dancing around the issue. He doesn't want to apologize because he doesn't believe he is in the wrong, but they never talk through it, they just move forward

"Ah, we're going to the pub!" As they're walking in the door. so Aziraphale didn't tell him where they were going, he just lead him there??

Aziraphale and Crowley don't agree on how to get Nina and Maggie together, but they go ahead and execute their own plans without discussing it further. Crowley does ask "I'm lost, am I doing a rainstorm?" but Aziraphale has already moved on and doesn't answer him. He's already decided the ball is the better option, but he doesn't communicate that. Later, Crowley tries to tell Aziraphale about his plan with the rainstorm, but Aziraphale ignores him. "You don't want to hear about my plan?" Then when Crowley tells him the rainstorm plan was a bust, Aziraphale has no idea what he's talking about.

After telling Crowley about the Clue, Aziraphle doesn't let them discuss it at all. He literally cuts Crowley off from asking any questions about it "no! not another word."

When Aziraphale asks to take the Bentley, he doesn't really ask, he's telling Crowley he's going to take it. Crowley says no indirectly "You can't drive my Bentley." Aziraphale explains that he can drive because he has a license. So Crowley says "No" plainly. Aziraphale ignores him. Crowley says "No" again, louder, clearer, slaps Aziraphale's hand away, but Aziraphale still ignores him.

When Aziraphale tells Crowley what he learned about Gabriel in Edinburgh, they never discuss it fully because Crowley cuts him off to execute his rainstorm that they've also never fully discussed.

Neither Aziraphale or Crowley tell the other that Shax confronted them. More importantly, Aziraphale doesn't tell Crowley that Shax tricked him into revealing that Gabriel is in the bookshop.

Aziraphale is very coy with Crowley while planning the ball "wait and see!" He never actually tells Crowley his plan.

When Aziraphale suggests "just talking" to Gabriel, he looks pleased when Crowley says "Actually, I will." He doesn't seems to read Crowley's tone. Crowley then proceeded to yell at Gabriel and tells him to jump out a window. Probably not what Aziraphale had in mind.

Of course, the whole scene in the ball. Crowley doesn't tell Aziraphale about the demons straight away, he leads with a seemingly less urgent "somethings wrong". Aziraphale is barely listening anyway. He's too in his own world, too caught up in psyching himself up to ask Crowley to dance.

After the demons storm the ball, Aziraphale tells Crowley he's got a suggestion, but Crowley cuts him off "I've got it."

Crowley doesn't tell Aziraphale what he learned in Heaven. He doesn't tell him about Armageddon part 2, or that Gabriel was fired for not wanting to go ahead with it. He doesn't even tell him this during their big fight at the end, when you would think it would be a convincing point towards Aziraphel staying.

Neil has revealed that Crowley never told Aziraphale that he was living in his car

And then their final argument is laden with miscommunication, (people have gone into great depths analyzing this already, but I’ll just sum it up so it’s included) - Aziraphale assumes Crowley would want to be an angel again, but they’ve clearly never discussed this. Crowley assumes Aziraphale is on the same page with why heaven is so bad, but they’ve clearly not fully discussed this either.  Crowley can barely look at Aziraphale when he’s confessing. He can’t get out the word “partner.” He can’t finish his sentence “I would like to spend…” Then there’s “nothing lasts forever” which Crowley interprets entirely differently from Aziraphale’s intention. “I don’t think you understand what I’m offering you” “I understand, and I think I understand a whole lot better than you.” And then, when Crowley has given up on trying to communicate verbally, he kisses Aziraphale as a last “Hail Mary” to get him to understand. But of course he doesn’t. That’s not communication. 

So.

If you’re still with me, what’s the point of laying all this out? Well, a couple of things. I’ll try to organize my thoughts coherently. 

 _

Crowley and Aziraphale’s communication is beyond a simple fix

It is so much worse than I originally thought. What they need is couples therapy. They both need to become aware of the broken way they relate to each other, and they need to do a lot of work on listening to each other, giving each other space to talk, and being honest with what they know and how they are feeling. We needed someone to call them out, make them aware of this, but Nina and Maggie TRIED this season, and it was not enough. Unfortunately, I’m fairly confident season 3 will not just be six hour long couples therapy sessions. I’m not sure how much room for working on communication skills there will be at all. Neil has described season three as big, loud, and action packed. I have no idea how this issue will be resolved in that context. 

_

Something horrible I realized when making this list. Crowley’s relationship with Aziraphale is beginning to mirror his toxic relationship with heaven. Aziraphale develops a plan- taking care of Gabriel, investigating the clue, organizing the ball. He wants things to go just the way he has in mind. He does not let Crowley say no. He does not let Crowley ask questions!!! And now Aziraphale is running heaven? What makes us think he would treat Crowley any differently in a real position of power? It would have been so. bad. if Crowley accepted Aziraphale’s offer. Yes, Aziraphale and Crowley are on the same page on preserving the world and humanity, and yes they love each other and want to be with each other, but when it comes to what to do about it, they don’t see eye to eye. And neither of them know how to properly collaborate or communicate. 

_

Finally, why do Aziraphale and Crowleyhide things from one another? Simply, they don’t really trust each other. I mean they do, sort of, but not entirely. They have a deeper trust. They trust that the other cares about them, and won't harm them intentionally, but they have so many deep rooted issues with trust from their past with heaven and hell that it overflows into their relationship. People have said Crowley keeps information from Aziraphale to protect him, but that also comes from a place of mistrust. He doesn’t trust Aziraphale to protect himself. He doesn’t trust him to do what he would do with that information. Similarly, Aziraphale doesn’t trust Crowley to let him do things his way. They don’t know how to collaborate! Not really. It's something they want, but were never taught. Collaboration was never encouraged in Heaven or hell.

[oldbookshop]

"Losing the possibility of something is the exact same thing as losing hope and without hope nothing can survive." –Mark Z. Danielewski, House of Leaves

「 a wee gift for @heavenslittlehellion (•���•) 」

[demonic-mnemonic]

The Ineffable fandom right now

[daysthatgonebye]

thanks to @not-mary-sue for inspiring this gifset

[fishmotif]

that deleted post-credit bookshop scene was crazy huh /j

[tardxsblues]

key to a successful marriage: always support your partner's dreams even if they are rubbish

[idliketobeatree]

final fifteen this, ineffable divorce that

i'm still in that special moment when Crowley suggested Muriel better be out of the bookshop, because he thinks they'll need a little Us time, followed by the urgency of you need to go. sorry?? this behaviour doesn't come from someone who's insecure about being rejected, or having doubts on where they stand. he was fully expecting everything to go swimmingly after his confession and preparing for no. damn. interruptions. next. with hhhmrhrm the dual energy of a spouse who can't get a break with the kids running round the house AND a newlywed ten minutes into the first day of honeymoon. girl was actually insane for this EDIT: sorry!! it seems I mixed up the order of the scenes here! it turns out that Nina and Maggie conversation happened after this scene, which means Crowley got to tidy up the bookshop (*romantic GO theme in the background*) and made plans for that alcoholic breakfast at the Ritz, but there was no guarantee he was going to confess yet. so. i've jumped to conclusions, my bad!

[inspector-constable]

Aziraphale and the Gray Area: Why is he like that though

Good omens season 2 spoilers ahead

One of the things religious trauma gave me is a strong sense of right vs. wrong. The idea that there is always a right way to do things or a right course of action, and to not do things that way is simply wrong. This is more than just feeling afraid of being punished for doing the wrong thing; it feels like part of my identity. I think of myself as a good person, so I want to do good things and I want to do the right thing. If I choose to do the wrong thing, I lose myself and I lose what I value in myself. Sometimes it’s a good thing to feel like this, it’s what led me away from a religion that preached hate. Sometimes it’s not such a good thing, because I can hurt people by trying to do the right thing, or by trying to put my personal sense of morals onto other peoples’ situations. I have been picking through my beliefs for over a decade trying to confront and dismantle the harmful ones. It’s a painful process and it takes a long, long time.

How much longer must it take for a literal angel, a servant of God? We have the pleasure of seeing this process in Aziraphale through the ages, and it’s a lot slower than fans want it to be. I think people see Aziraphale in his moments in the gray area - lying, disobeying orders, being a bastard, enjoying human food, and loving and trusting a demon - and they think that he must be just fine with being in the middle: mostly right, a bit wrong, very human. But that characterization oversimplifies and misses Aziraphale’s true nature.

The sense of justice and good vs. evil is central to who Aziraphale is. He is not just another angel following commands; he is doing what he truly thinks is right no matter what the consequences may be. He ends up being quite a bit more good and loving than any of the other angels we meet, because he isn’t okay with doing what he knows is wrong. He knows it innately, but also he knows it because of what he was taught. When you’re taught that hate and violence and greed is wrong, but then you see hate and violence and greed being perpetuated by your teachers, you start to wonder where that dividing line really is.

That’s where the gray area comes in. When Aziraphale gives away his sword, he’s aware it’s not technically the right thing to do, but decides it is the actual right thing to do to protect Eve and Adam and their child. Same as when he lies to the angels about Job’s children, only this time instead of fudging the truth and avoiding the confrontation, he has to make a direct choice to do something that is technically wrong - lying - in order to avoid doing something he really, really knows is Wrong - murder. In this case, he’s not okay with lying despite it being wrong, he’s okay with lying because it is the right thing to do. It still causes a large amount of internal conflict when he thinks he will be sent to Hell for disobeying, but that fear of punishment didn’t stop him from doing what he thought was good.

For Aziraphale, the gray area is not about being a little bit evil, it’s about fudging the Rules and disobeying authority in order to remain completely good. Since Crowley is in the gray area with him, surely Crowley must be in the same boat of wanting to do the Right thing. Throughout thousands of years of history Aziraphale never stops arguing the side of Good, trying to convince Crowley to do the right thing. Sometimes he finds that Crowley was actually right all along, and then Aziraphale can feel safe to align himself with whatever the demon is doing. Sometimes Aziraphale even tries to convince Heaven to do the right thing with him. During Armageddon, Aziraphale avoids telling Crowley the truth because he thinks it would be better to get Heaven to stop doing the wrong thing. And he’s right, a lot of problems would be solved and life would be easier if Heaven would listen to Aziraphale and stop inflicting their harmful views on the world. 

It would be nice if Aziraphale would realize, at the end of the first season, that Heaven is not interested in being good or even being right; they just want to win. Aziraphale is too naive and pure to believe that of Heaven. After everything, he still wants to be an angel, and he still wants to be part of a Heaven that is doing good. What he did at the end of season 2 is not at all out of character for him. It makes perfect sense that he would want to take the opportunity to change Heaven for the better. Anyone can see what a delightful place it would be with Aziraphale making the decisions. Angels could drink hot chocolate and stack books in their offices or pop down to Earth to go to the theater. Humans could live without worrying about Armageddon or the Great Plan or having their lives destroyed over a bet. And demons (or at least one specific one) who were good and loving could be forgiven and become angels again so they don’t have to be forced to carry out evil acts and always be looking over their shoulders. 

Aziraphale didn’t do what he did because he doesn’t accept or love who Crowley is. He just genuinely believes that Crowley is still an angel deep down and that Heaven is where he belongs, where he could be the most happy. A better Heaven, where Crowley could create stars to last millions of years and put anything he wanted in the suggestion box. Aziraphale wanted to create a life for them to be together without any more worry of secret meetings, gray areas, and war. When Crowley rejected that life, it broke Aziraphale’s view of Crowley and his goodness. As ridiculous as it sounds, Aziraphale never expected that Crowley wouldn’t jump at the chance to be an angel with him again, and now his perception of their relationship is shaken. 

Ultimately, Aziraphale can’t be so selfish as to choose to run away with the being he loves, when he knows he can do so much more good if he returns to Heaven. And so in trying to do the right thing for everyone, Aziraphale does the wrong thing for Crowley and himself. This is what is so hard about Aziraphale’s gray area; it cuts both ways. He has so much learning and unpacking to do, and I’m afraid he’s going to find that he will have much less power to change Heaven than he thought. All we can do is beg for a third season and then Wait and See.

[rainbowpopeworld]

I’m so sad that we don’t have video of these answers. David Tennant’s tone and facial expressions could make a lot of difference and would certainly be entertaining