#gods.... how they destroyed Tevinter....

[lairofsentinel]

Every chantry symbol in Miranthous is wrong. Every detail, every big statue, every enviroment has been designed so carelessly in this game. They don't even know that the Imperial Chantry has a particular symbol that separates them from the Orlesian Chantry of the rest of Thedas...

[notebooks-and-laptops]

The thing that still gets me is. Look. Culture wise. Lore wise. Why are ANY of the factions who side with the elven Gods actually siding with them. Obviously the darkspawn are controlled by Ghilan'nain so that's fine but:

The Venatori; largely upper class Tevinter mages, are working with the ELVEN gods???? The elves they believe are so beneath them that they quite literally form a slave class? And they're just willing to be subservient to them without any pushback whatsoever???

The Qunari; strong philosophical/religious philosophy which does not incorporate God-like figures. Culturally very against the idea of chaos (which Ghilan'nain and the blight very much symbolise). From what I can see, the Antam left the Qun because they believed that it wasn't following it's own principles well enough; are they really going to randomly start following gods from some bas religion. FURTHER these gods are powerful mages. Qunari historically are very against powerful mages. I mean, there's a whole DLC about how they decide Solas is a huge threat on sight and needs to be eliminated immediately.

And THEN you have the fact that these two factions, the ANTAM WHO ARE INVADING TEVINTER AND ACTIVELY MAKING SLAVES OUT OF TEVINTER CITIZENS AND DESTROYING THE MINDS OF TEVINTER MAGES are going to just be fine with working with THE TEVINTER IMPERALISTS WHO BELIEVE THAT TEVINTER SHOULD RULE ALL THEDAS AND THAT MAGES ARE GREAT.

Surely these two groups should be the MOST diametrically opposed to working with one another because even if they can wipe out everyone else together, for either to achieve their stated aims the other HAS to cease to exist.

It would be interesting if they were sorta going at this like...the way that the Soviet Union and the US worked together in WWII but then it erupted into a cold war once their mutual enemy was defeated. Or if the gods were hiding the fact they were working with both of them. But that doesn't seem to be the case.

It's just. It's a wild choice. It's basically 'evil people work with evil people no matter what' which is categorically just not how things work.

[sodaequalsbubbles]

Okay this is going to be a long ass negative Dragon Age the Veilguard post. So don’t read if you don't care about negative opinions on this game.

First of all, I should have never looked at the veilguard art book. I shouldn't have looked. WHY DID I LOOK THROUGH IT ughhhhhhhhhhh.

Before I just felt disappointed about this game. But now it's a genuine bitter sadness after seeing all of the art book.

I had a feeling that this game was probably frankensteined together, because datv felt so half-baked with chunks of story missing from it. Honestly parts of the game gave me the same sensation as when you skip a cutscene or speed run an area, it felt so off sometimes. So I knew there was probably a lot of stuff that was removed or altered until it was unrecognizable, but I didn't realize how bad it was. We were actually robbed. BioWare stabbed us in the middle of an alley way, made off with our wallets, and stepped on our hopes for this game on the way out. (Dramatic I know, but you get the point)

And before people start saying that it's unfair to criticize this game from its concept art because, "it’s just concept art and ideas. A lot of those concepts don't end up making it to the final game. Especially with the development of a triple a". I know that, but veilguard doesn't feel like they just cut out some characters, levels, game mechanics, etc. etc.

It feels like a whole separate game was cut out, and we were left with the glued together scraps of what could’ve been.(Sorry for the poor screenshots, it was difficult to find online scans for the art book )

What? The South of Thedas was actually going to matter instead of being nuked? Who was chosen as the Divine, and maybe even the rulers of Orlais and Ferelden were going to have more impact on the story? Yeah probably.

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The agents of Fen'Harel were originally going to be a part of the game like it was hinted at in the end of Trespasser. And constantly be sabotaging your plans to stop Solas. And instead of elves giving the biggest possible meh response, to the fact that the ancient elven gods were back and trying to restore their empire, by destroying the current world. They actually react as one should in this situation lol.

And many end up joining Solas ( and probably Elgar'nan, and Ghilan'nain as well). Because it kind of makes sense for enslaved, oppressed, and abused people that have been suffering for centuries to throw their lot in with those that promise to free them.

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Another cut idea made it seem like the first act of the game was going to start with your party sneaking into Tevinter, to get ahold of the red lyruim idol from DA2. But Solas and his agents are one step ahead, and he takes it before you can. Then turns the idol into the purified lyruim dagger he uses in the ritual at the actual start of the datv. (Better than Varric just telling you where the dagger came from, ah this game really loves telling instead of showing.) So that probably means the scene of interrupting Solas's ritual was going to be further along in the story. Instead of Rook just being air dropped into this mess, with even less of an explanation than the concept art lmao.

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Rivain was going to be a trading post, kind of sleazy and a melting pot of different Thedas cultures. Instead of an endless sandy coast with ruins strewn about.

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The real Tevinter was going to be seen. Its opulence, pride, and strength built off the backs of slaves and magic. Because believe it or not, outright ignoring slavery in Tevinter is worse than showing it. Instead of giving us the chance to confront it, and put a stop to it like the Shadow Dragons, Maevaris Tilani, and Dorian have been trying to do for years, the game just outright acts like it’s not happening basically. Making me feel like no one in the game gives a damn about these people that are suffering. Pretending it’s not there doesn’t change anything.

A little section in the book shows that we maybe could have started a slave revolt in Tevinter as well.

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Whoever was left behind in the Fade after Inquisition, was going to appear when Rook gets trapped there.

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Isabela was intended to be an advisor, perhaps alongside Morrigan and Dorian (like Leliana, Cullen, and Josephine were in DAI). And provide you a ship, and a captain for your journey. Instead of being a glorified WWE announcer for a fighting ring. She was also going to have a proper outfit; unlike the absolute mess we got in game ugh.

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In the concept art there was more politics. Such as gaining allies from opposing sides, like the Qunari and Tevinter.

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There were also perhaps plans for more divisive and conflicting sentiments within the companions. And events where they could betray you depending on choices made in the game. (Real conflict and consequences, in my Dragon Age?!)

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The Inquisitor probably was going to have more involvement in the story.

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You could ride a GRIFFON while hunting dragons.

So yeah, the art book brought more sadness than curiosity out of me. I will now go into the salt mines, to mourn the game we could’ve gotten instead.

[el-bellanaris]

One thing that really stuck with me in datv was during the regrets of the wolf series of missions was a comment made about Solas's actions from Bellara after watching the third regret.

"I mean, they were terrible. No question. But what he did? It didn't just stop them. It destroyed our culture. Our world."

Now if you agree with Solas's actions in this memory Bellara will reply with:

"Even as he destroyed my/our people's world? Locked away who we were?"

I kind of just remember being baffled here because in a previous conversation Bellara even mentioned that the old gods were like Tevinter nobles, not just pure beacons of terror and war. But then to equate the entire culture of the Elves being purely related to who leads them seems so ignorant. Both as a person generally you wouldn't really think that and as an elf in the world of Thedas it completely ignores the entire thousands of years of history to find some simple answer. Some bad guy to blame the world's problems on.

Especially as someone who played as an Elven Inquisitor, it really left me in shock. I think of my Inquisitor standing in the Dales, looking at at ruins of old Elven culture that frankly doesn't make sense to her. I understood at that point that Fen'Harel was the big bad in her own religion, that my character should feel a since of distaste at seeing his statues. But then I was confronted with dozens of statues of him, ranging from a decent size to being the size of a dragon and then to probably about 3-5 times that size sitting on top of a mountain. All of these statues gave me the sense of protection that the Dread Wolf watches over this valley. There is even a shrine to the Dread Wolf himself, something so out of my understanding of why. It felt wrong, he's the bad guy so why did the people who no longer live here revere him so much? It was only finding out that Fen'Harel was twisted in his current perception, that he was a symbol of rebellion who locked away the gods at price of retribution for his friend and in order to free the elves from their oppressors did it start to make sense.

I was Solas first. “Fen’Harel” came later... an insult I took as a badge of pride. The Dread Wolf inspired hope in my friends and fear in my enemies… not unlike “Inquisitor,” I suppose.

(Curtesy of @/daitranscripts)

He was a symbol of rebellion, an inspiration and beacon of freedom amongst the ancient elves. Much like the Inquisitor and Inquisition he became much larger then himself.

I still didn't quite understand it so I went down a rabbit hole on the wiki and through the World of Thedas book to understand exactly how everything came to be.

A general basic recap of what transpired for the Elves from the creation of the Veil until now

So in short the Veil was created before the humans arrived to Thedas, which would have been around the time Solas fell to his deep sleep. There is no exact when this happened but the human's arrival was at about -3100 Ancient and the elves first noticed the "quickening" of their lifespans in -2850 Ancient. Ancient meaning how many years before the forming of the Chantry, so about 3000 years before the first age some 950 years ago at the time of Veilguard (so in total 3950 or so years ago).

Sorry going on a tangent but I find this difference in time interesting, I wonder if the ancient Elves started to notice their children and children's children aging and dying quickly and how horrific that must have been to watch.

Back to the timeline, so Arlathan was eventually conquered by the Tevinter Imperium around -975 Ancient resulting in the Elves becoming slaves to Tevinter until the first Exalted March led by Andraste herself and assisted by Shartan, an Elven man who led the Elven slaves against the Imperium around the year -180 to -170 Ancient.

The result of this long war was the Elves were granted the Dales in the year -165 Ancient to make their own and were free from the hands of oppression once more. They founded the city of Halamshiral - meaning the end of the journey, and lived in their new home whilst keeping human contact low through the protection of their own legion called the Emerald Knights.

This didn't last forever, eventually the first Emperor of Orlais during the first age united Orlais through making the Chantry and their worship of Andraste the official religion. This created unrest between the humans and Elves as they still clung unto their old gods. I'm not going to go into it too deeply but after tensions rose, the second blight happening and a rumours of human sacrifice from the elves to find some answer to the blight the Exalted March of the Dales was declared between 2:10 and 2:20 Glory (700 years before the events of the games). This holy war ended in the Elves losing their second homeland and resulted in:

The creation of alienages for Elves to live in human cities where they were often treated as second class citizens and left to be servants to the humans.

The formation of the Dalish, nomadic Elves who did not want to live under human rule and clung onto what little scraps of their ancient culture they could

The ban of the worship of the Elven pantheon, resulting in city Elves who live in alienages to forget their own history and the Dalish living in rebellion of the Chantry

The erasure of Shartan throughout the Chantry teachings of their own history

So after a good 700 years the Dalish living amongst themselves seemingly started to misunderstand their own history and twisted the fall of the Evanuris to portray Fen'Harel as the bad guy. It seems that the Elves of the Dales remembered enough but during the separation of the Elves into small clans this all changed.

In summary, after 2000 years without godly interference from Solas or anyone else, the Elves survived on their own with new lifespans and then spent about 800 years enslaved by humans. Then founded a new second homeland that inevitably fell after nearly 400 years and was forced to live in tiny groups failing to ever grasp at power.

So back to the events of the game

The game wants us to just believe that all of that history is somehow purely the fault of one man, who sought after the end of a long tyrannical rule of Elgarnan and wished purely for the freedom of his people. Something they succeeded in having for a decent amount of time but ultimately it was the human's greed and eventually arrogance over their own religion that led to the downfall of the Elves and the complete eradication of their own culture.

Solas sees this world as a mistake, the result of a terrible decision and after learning about everything that has transpired in the Elves long bloody history I can sympathise with his thought process. I could not imagine waking up to seeing how the world had torn to shreds my own people's culture and then seeing them forced to live in small groups without ever being able to actually know their own history. Tearing the Veil isn't a good idea and I think Solas is short sighted for thinking it would simply fix anything but I can understand that he wants to give his people back some scrap of power.

He's mourning so much loss and has to live in a world that is is happy to exist on the graves of his people. There is not a single living being at the point of Inquisition that could understand his thoughts (some of that is his fault as he murdered Fallassan). I can understand why the Inquisition could not change his mind at that point, it's difficult to just say don't do it when you don't really understand the weight of his choice and how much it this world existing must utterly destroy Solas, and how in order to keep going he has to think about it all an end to a means. How else can he keep swimming in the same water that must drown him with his own existence.

So I don't exactly understand Bellara's way of thinking here, she is Dalish and cares so deeply about the history of her people but lacks the basic understanding of her people's history which is largely at fault of the humans and the Chantry. She wants to learn so much from reading the books in Solas's home and fixing the archive spirit but doesn't seem to understand the world she is living in right now and how it came to be. Being Dalish would mean she should know about the stories of her people at the very least. She is presumedly from a clan that resides near Arlathan or just generally in the North of Thedas so surely she should know about Tevinter and their bloody history and she would hopefully understand the results of the Exalted March on the Dales.

It truly bothers me as someone who played Inquisition right before Veilguard. How I spent so much time immersing myself into the world as an Elf and had to really come face to face with the build up and tearing down of my own understanding of the world and what that meant for my Inquisitor. Now a lot of this information is pulled from a 3rd party source (The World of Thedas Vol 1) So it's hard to say that the Inquisitor would know every detail written here but the Inquisitor is a leader, a person who was thrust into a role by the Chantry to help people and travels the world. She knows what the difference between herself and the City Elves are. She knows how the Elves are treated in Orlais and Tevinter both from personal experience as being served at Halamshiral and shown in a conversation with Dorian.

We… don’t have Dalish clans coming northward… for obvious reasons.

(Dorian when discussing the background of the Inquisitor if the player character is Dalish in Inquisition)

So surely from this, Bellara should know that being Dalish it just isn't safe to live in certain parts of this world because she is simply not welcome and will be treated like barely a person. But this one line just completely derails her as a person, how can someone so obsessed with her own people's history just not understand exactly what history is. It isn't the results of leaders and and major world ending events, it's the little actions of so many individuals that create the world state as it is right now. And even these actions of leaders are still built up from the help of others. The Inquisitor succeeded because their cause was assisted by so many people. Rook wouldn't have succeeded against fighting the gods and winning if not for the direct help of dozens of people but suddenly about 4000 years of history is the result of one man's actions?

Solas locked away the gods yes, but all he did was destroy the current political system at the time. Killing a King, Empress or Archon would not erase the entire culture of the people they led. It would simply mean a position has opened up. Yes this would leave the people in disarray but the people are still alive, their culture would not be instantly forgotten. Creating the veil fundamentally altered the entire world but that still does not equal the destruction of the Elven culture.

Now I love Bellara so much as a character but as someone who became so obsessed with the history of the Elves because of Inquisition this just feels like such a shallow attempt at making us have a reason to hate Solas while fundamentally not understanding your own character.

[broodwolf221]

forever thinking abt solas and sera as extraordinary foils of each other

elven history v. elven modernity is a big thing but just as major imo:

rebellion

solas is the dread wolf, the trickster god of rebellion and deception. we know now that it's more nuanced than all that, but he did lead a rebellion - and with good cause!

sera is a modern rebel, and what does solas do? he tries to share his experience with her. he talks about the tactics of rebellion, the choices to be made, the difficult things that lay ahead. sera listens and then rejects it and he's so confused. she's a rebel, she obviously cares about people, why won't she take it all the way?

but her reasoning is about avoiding his consequence and he doesn't even see it. she doesn't want to kill or ruin all nobles bc to do so would plunge everyone into chaos and she recognizes that. solas plunged all of arlathan into a chaos so profound it destroyed it

in a lot of ways, sera is wiser than solas, wiser about people, about reaction, about cause and effect. he went to extremes in order to free slaves and to punish the evanuris. she knows that nobles are awful and that servants and workers and all the people who provide for them are abused and misused, but she doesn't think wholesale destruction is the answer and she isn't wrong

and what's the difference? imo, community and experience. solas is such an academic, distanced from those he seeks to protect, and can be very paternalistic. sera has lived these things. she talks about how some of the red jennies make enough coin to retire and how the ones who do good are fine but others end up being the target of the jennies. she knows how people can change

also: the red jennies scare the nobles. there's power in that. it's far from perfect, but that doesn't mitigate the very real power in it. what if instead of destroying everything, solas had led a rebellion that put fear in the hearts of the evanuris? what if he forced them to confront that they, too, could face the consequences of their actions? it wouldn't have been easy but it would have prevented the absolute destruction that followed

and he! doesn't! fucking! see it! he doesn't see that sera's reasoning is about avoiding his mistake! he doesn't see that sera's wisdom grounded in experience counters his naivete grounded in an academic pursuit of justice!

which imo is all the more reason to believe he's a spirit. he had, and perhaps still has, a very simplistic view of things like this. if there is an injustice you fix it. you don't live with it and change it by degrees, you don't try to alter it at the root, you just Fix It, whatever form that takes. the evanuris are bad? imprison them. simplistic punitive justice. to sera, the nobles are bad? make them, THESE nobles, fear reprisal. give power and anonymity to the people being hurt. but don't get rid of all the nobles only to have to start the process over again

and we don't know the full form of solas' rebellion, granted. he may have tried many things for a long time. and arlathan appears to have been much worse than thedas is now - even tevinter doesn't seem as bad as arlathan is vaguely implied to have been. but he still destroyed... everything. he killed so many innocents. and yes, again, his situation was different - he talks about the evanuris destroying the world if he didn't stop them. perhaps he's right. it's not a 1:1 comparison, I get that. but they are still very profound foils of each other, and I find his insistence that sera should follow his path to be a fascinating bit of insight into his character, continuing to opt for extreme measures

[apostaterevolutionary]

So another thing I want to talk about post-veilguard re: the lore. There's been plenty of long explorations of the de-fanging or just skipping entirely when it comes to the political stuff and I think the topic's been covered pretty well by others at this point, so I won't dwell on that. But I do want to talk a bit about the higher, more mystical lore with respect to gods/religions and the direction it's taken since inquisition's dlcs. Because... ngl, I didn't love it then, and I don't love it now

(Veilguard spoilers, but this also is about inquisition's dlcs too)

So. First off: I have not actually played the descent or trespasser. Because, at the time they were released, I was playing on previous gen consoles and thus I literally could not buy them even if I’d wanted to (and at the time, I did want to). I maintain that was incredibly dumb 10 years later, given trespasser was the actual ending of the game locked behind a price tag, but let's not beat skeletal horses huh lmao

Anyway. So I have only read about the events of those on the wiki/in people's posts (I don't enjoy watching let's plays unless it's someone doing something weird so). I own all the dlcs now, as I now have a computer that can run the game and I bought all of them, but every attempt to replay inquisition since my insane fervour when it first released has failed. I just can't finish the game, so I can't play the dlcs. Anyway. All of this to say: my knowledge of what happens in them may be skewed and even wrong. But I'm gonna talk about the topics anyway, so please feel free to chime in if I’ve got something wrong

So firstly: the titans. I remember really not liking this development when the dlc came out cause like. What? I read the wiki page then (and again recently, cause I remembered very little lmao) and honestly I still don't like it cause it just feels so... at odds with everything else in the lore? Idk. I still don't get how it fits in with absolutely anything. Feels out of nowhere and doesn’t really fit. But okay, they’re here now, and I’ll talk about their tie in to the rest of the lore later. But suffice to say: it just felt like a weird thing then and I maintain it does now too. Like it just doesn’t fit and feels like a weirdly forced addition. I guess that’s personal opinion but I gotta say it

But the bigger part of this is. The sort of... removal of all religions in Thedas for the sake of just. Elves were everything? At first, I really disliked the rewriting of elven gods as tyrants cause it's like... the simple, silly elves mourning everything they lost but actually what they lost was oppression and slavery even worse than today!!! That has implications I really dislike. But now it's... okay Tevinter gods? Well, people worshipping dragons makes sense, even if they weren't really gods - sike! They weren't just dragons either, they were fucked up dragons controlled by the elven gods. The elven gods which aren't even gods, but really just random people. Except those people were also fade spirits made physical. But still not gods! It's important that they are not in fact gods and just powerful mages! Oh also the maker is bullshit too and Solas was the maker, at least in the context of the golden city story (I'm actually fine with the maker and that story specifically not being real it's just. The combo of everything, you know). Also the elven not-gods destroyed the titans too! So also dwarven problems were their fault too! And destroying the titans created the fucking BLIGHT!!! You know, the worst thing to ever exist! Everything comes back to just these guys!!!

Like. It’s all Solas and the Evanuris all the way down. Everything is just them. It makes the world feel so… small. I don't like how everything's just narrowing in on one thing here? Fantasy with different races and religions are fun because it's like. I found the original stories interesting. The story of the elven gods and the forgotten ones being locked away by a trickster so that only he remains is such classic myth shit. I enjoy that. Lyrium being a weird, magic rock that just exists and also it’s poison? Yeah, that makes sense - we have radioactivity in real life lmao, why can't rocks be weird in a land of magic. The blight just. Existing as an evil thing, either as a result of the golden city story or something else - that’s also fine. And as much as the andrastian religion has done some terrible stuff (and the like. it just being christianity but jesus was a woman this time is kind of boring), the concept of worshipping an absent god is actually pretty interesting

And now it just feels like

Idk to me it feels so limited to just boil all of these interesting mythologies and beliefs down to just... well it was all the Evanuris. Everything was the Evanuris. Also they weren't even gods, they were just terrible. There are no gods in this world. If you want a religion, better bring paragon worship to the surface or go join the Qun cause apparently they're the only ones who have any kind of factual stuff going on in their religions (for now, at least lmao)

I recall seeing a post somewhere asking why no one in this game is religious at all. Well, I think this is why: most of the religions are about to not exist anymore. The dwarves are mostly okay, cause paragons are just ancestors, they were real people (though I'm sure there are some who's history has been distorted). Like the titan thing is a thing but idk how bothered most dwarves are by that, it’s not really brought up much. The Qun doesn’t have any sort of deity that we know of so like. They're okay. Except they don't have a military so. That's a problem for the nation, which could lead to the religion ceasing to exist if anyone decides to conquer them back after all the shit. Idk. I'm an atheist irl lmao so this feels kinda weird to harp on but it is very weird to me for a fantasy game to just. Destroy all the gods and beliefs like that. I suppose it's a unique choice but still... Why

(I also just remembered we still have the Avvar I guess, but they worship spirits, no? Which are also not really gods, but at least that’s also a believable religious concept. I’ve never seen a fantasy setting with no real gods before honestly. It’s a very bold choice, one I’m not sure I like)

And maybe! I'm missing something, either something that was maybe hidden in a codex or book I haven’t read or something that happened in one of the dlcs I haven't played but. Idk. The world of thedas feels just so small and cramped now that we know that everything most citizens of the world has ever believed was false and just boiled down to a small handful of old timey tyrants. Even the falseness I could deal with, but the limiting of just. Oh it was all just these guys. That’s it. All them. That's just... I don't like it. The larger context of dragon age lore is… idk it’s been getting smaller and smaller since the end of inquisition and I don’t like that

I started drafting this partway through playing and one of the things I also talked about was ‘where the hell are future games going to go now???’ but now I’ve also seen the secret ending and that… once again implies there’s something bigger behind absolutely everything? I sincerely hope that’s in a like. Subtle influence thing and not ‘oh yeah, Loghain and Bartrand were actually ~manipulated~’ way cause taking away their agency makes them infinitely less interesting characters (plus Bartrand already has the lyrium idol as part of the reason he did what he did). Like pls don’t let this turn into an idea that people can’t just do terrible things. Please, we really don’t need that. That may not be where it’s going but idk, that got my hackles up lmao

AND apparently in the reddit AMA they said they were done with the Evanuris’ story but like… the Evanuris were just everything that’s ever been believed in? I guess they don’t have to personally show up but… idk I kinda figured there’s no way to get away from them now. Also Solas, is still kicking around, even though presumably with the veil being tied to him... assuming he did get out or was freed again, he wouldn't kill himself to tear down the veil, right? Right??? This isn't an issue that may come up one day????? I kinda feel like it's a little bit of a plot hole

But that’s kind of a side point. The larger thing here is how we see the major religions and mythologies in Thedas all just converge on the same thing, a thing which is no longer an issue so. They’re mostly just gone? I can’t imagine the chantry is going anywhere soon (though with the south so thoroughly fucked, who knows, maybe too many people died and the religion will die too cause the political power structure is completely gone – if Tevinter didn’t get a new, good leader during veilguard I’d say they’re definitely going to take advantage of the weakness of the south to make their empire big again. Also ngl I actually think that would be an interesting thing to happen but oh well lmao). Not only are there no actual gods in Thedas, almost every religion was actually this one group and that’s it. That’s just so bizarre to me and I don’t like the implications. Fantasy settings and religions and deities go hand in hand and I guess they don’t have to but. It does feel like the world is smaller now, not bigger

Idk I don’t really have a real big conclusion here it’s just. Why do this? Why tie so much of the lore back to just one group? A group you’re also apparently done with now? And with the secret ending hinting at yet another group that even more things are going to be tied back to… This feels like very simplistic storytelling, not complex storytelling to me. And I don’t like that

[cadaveerie]

spoilers for DA2, DAI, DATV (from things seen in the first Dragon Age: The Veilguard gameplay reveal, and from the character designs and descriptions) and Tevinter Nights (The Horror of Hormak)

Trying to guess what gods Davrin and Bellara's vallaslin represent

Long post ahead. TLDR at the end!

I suppose that someone has already made some comparison like this, but I couldn't find any post that compares the images like this so I'm doing one!

Firstly, the source: The chart in which the vallaslin were assigned to their gods for the first time was posted by Matt Rhodes (post).

The vallaslin used in that chart are from Dragon Age: Inquisition, so we don't have an official confirmation for the vallaslin of DAO or DA2. The designs are different in those two games, but they're similar enough to make a guess. For further reference, aside from the confirmed DAI version I'll try to assign the vallaslin that I suspect might be Davrin and Bellara's to their respective DAO version.

Now, the post itself is under the cut:

Davrin - Ghilan'nain

Ghilan'nain is the elven goddess of guides and navigation. She is often called the Mother of the halla—white deer-like creatures revered by the Dalish and used to pull their aravel, or "landships".

Comparison to DAO's, this is the most likely to be Ghilan'nain's vallaslin, in my opinion. This image belongs to codexapocryphal, who made this post. After looking at all the vallaslin, I agree with them that this is the one that's most likely to be Ghilan'nain's.

Ghilan'nain is my best guess for Davrin.

The reasoning:

Theme

The Mother of the Halla, a goddess closely related to animals, who loves and protects them, and who herself became the first halla. The goddess that created countless monsters so wild that she had to destroy most of them after her beloved pleaded her to stop (Codex: The Ascension of Ghilan'nain). And possibly, she might have been the one responsible for the events of The Horror of Hormak, a story in Tevinter Nights that narrates how two Grey Wardens find a temple that, coincidentally, is full of halla horns symbolism in its columns, and in which from a strange pool come out horrifying mutated darkspawn and monsters. There's also some other symbolism in the story that suggests that it might be Ghilan'nain's doing, but that's the most obvious one (aside from the fact that the pool is straight up creating monsters, as Ghilan'nain is known to do).

She is also said to help Dalish hunters find their way home when they're lost. And all of that -- the hunter, the monster and the animal elements, sound very accurate to Davrin, who is both a monster hunter and one of the Grey Wardens that were assigned to raise a griffon (perhaps he loves animals like she does, that'd be cute :D).

Additionally, if it turns out that it's indeed Ghilan'nain's vallaslin, we will probably end up getting this information in-game, since Ghilan'nain is one of the gods that Solas (and Rook) freed by accident. Oops.

Design

Based on the design alone, I think you could easily see a halla's horns in it. However, I think it can be a little hard to properly identify which vallaslin we are talking about by only looking at the forehead, since some of the designs look very similar to each other, especially in the forehead region.

Having said that, I think that if we look both at his forehead and chin, the Ghilan'nain vallaslin design from Inquisition is the most similar to Davrin's, since both vallaslin occupy the forehead and the chin only and the "horns" are making similar shapes.

Other reasons

One of the reasons why I believe it might be hers as well is because it would make a very interesting conflict for Davrin. The monster hunter who has to fight this... monster-looking creature, that on top of that is the goddess his vallaslin represents?

And it's even crazier if we consider what Solas reveals to f!Lavellan in one of their romance scenes: that the vallaslin are actually slave markings that nobles forced their slaves to get. I wonder what Davrin (and Bellara, and a Dalish Rook) would think if they knew this... And I wonder what a god would think if they saw an elf with one of their symbols on their face. Would they believe they're a slave dedicated to them? Who knows, if some of the theories out there are true, perhaps the gods themselves could have some control over them. Not sure how likely that is, but it would be interesting and add yet another layer of drama (and maybe it's reaching, but it reminds me to what happens if you bring Anders with you to the Deep Roads in the Legacy DLC, that he turns against the team. I wonder if something like that would be possible if you bring Davrin along and have to fight this goddess at some point. tbh I love this trope.. I know it's too extra but I hope it's true lol).

Other options

If not Ghilan'nain's then I believe the other most likely options are the following:

Mythal's (complex version), The All-Mother, the patron of motherhood and justice (the flip side of vengeance):

and Falon'Din's, the god of death and fortune who guides the dead to the Beyond:

And the both of them is because even if they have a cheek part that Davrin's doesn't have, it's similar enough to his in both the "horns" aspect and the chin. At least enough, I suppose... I still think it's way more likely that it's Ghilan'nain, though. For the rest I can't seem to find enough similarities to even suggest them... but here is all of them, in case you want to check:

link!

Bellara - Dirthamen

Dirthamen is the elven god of secrets and knowledge.

Comparison to DAO's, this is the most likely to be Dirthamen's vallaslin, in my opinion. This image belongs to codexapocryphal, who made this post. After looking at all the vallaslin, I agree with them that this is the one that's most likely to be Dirthamen's.

I know that for this one, the DAO and the DAI one don't seem that similar to each other, but I believe that there's still similarity, especially in the cheeks. Since this is speculative it might not even be the right comparison, but it's not that relevant either way.

Dirthamen is my best guess for Bellara.

The reasoning:

Theme

The Keeper of Secrets, he is the god that gave the elves the gift of knowledge. Both him and Falon'Din, his "twin brother", would venture into The Fade often to learn secrets. He's also said to have gifted the elves the gifts of loyalty and faith in family.

It's pretty clear that this would make sense for Bellara, since she's a Veil Jumper, the people that explore the ancient ruins of the Arlathan Forest looking for ancient secrets of the elves. And Bellara herself is described in the EA website as "obsessed with discovering the ancient secrets of ancient Elvhenan". This god seems to be a perfect patron for her.

Contrary to the dynamic that Davrin might have with Ghilan'nain, the other god that escaped as we saw in the gameplay reveal was probably Elgar'nan (if you want to know why, you can watch this video by Jackdaw). So if Bellara's vallaslin is Dirthamen's, then she wouldn't have this sort of connection to one of the gods that escaped as Davrin does for having Ghilan'nain vallaslin (although it would have been funny, but I suppose it's better this way, to give each character their own personal struggle facing this. And at the end of the day, both of the gods that escaped are still part of the pantheon she follows, so it'd be significant for her as well regardless of who was released).

Design

Compared to Davrin's, this is a bit harder to figure out, as the two vallaslin look significantly more different. To me the most relevant part when we compare DAI Dirthamen's design to Bellara's are the geometrical shapes, especially the triangles, as this shape (in this form of... dots, almost) is never found in other vallaslin.

And I think that the design in her cheeks is also kind of similar to Dirthamen's in DAI, as they are little triangles/diamonds that go across a longer curve. It could be a reach though... I'm not super confident in this one, but considering the other options, this one seems like the most similar.

Other reasons

Relevant to her overall design and her vallaslin, it seems that the triangle (and geometric shapes, but mostly the triangle) is a relevant motif for her. She's full of them all over her outfit... although as seen in the concept art below, it's not so much a "her" thing as it is a general theme for Veil Jumpers. I also suppose that they took a lot of their style from the elvhenan and their ancient artifacts that they found in the Arlathan Forest.

Other options

The one that in my opinion looks the most like it could be Bellara's, aside from Dirthamen's, is June's, the elven Master of Crafts, a god of crafts and building. I believe this because of the little dots June's has under the eyes, which I think look similar to what Bellara has in her cheeks, and also to those she has right below her eyebrows. The forehead part also looks... kind of similar to hers. One of the biggest differences is that June's DAI vallaslin goes down the neck, and hers doesn't (and doesn't even have anything on the chin, but Dirthamen's DAI one also has something on the chin).

I've also seen some people suggest Sylaise's (the complex version), the goddess of all the domestic arts, or Falon'Din's, the elven god of death and fortune who guides the dead to the Beyond... but to be honest I just don't see enough resemblance, and I don't think thematically it makes as much sense as Dirthamen's does.

And once again I leave the picture of all of DAI's vallaslin in case you want to check:

and the link, again!

And that's all! Sorry if this was too long!

Keep in mind that at the end of the day we know that the vallaslin are different depending of the region, so that's the in-game reason why they're different. That and of course, there can always be slightly changes, especially in this game since it's been 10 years since the last one came out.

Do you agree or have any other take? If you have other theories for this or you spot any mistake, please let me know! Thank you for reading :D

TLDR: It's Ghilan'nain for Davrin and Dirthamen for Bellara, probably? But we're just guessing here.

the DAI vallaslin images from the wiki, they were uploaded by KeladinStorm and  Evamitchelle so shoutout to them!

Edit 1: Confirmation for Bellara

[alrightberries]

my tin foil hat theories i stand by, before veilguard comes out, a short post:

1. solas was a spirit of wisdom that served mythal, before taking on a body

solas says that spirits reflect what a person perceives. a spirit of wisdom will stay a spirit of wisdom if approached with humility and good will; conversely it can be twisted into a pride demon if approached with ill intent.

solas means "pride" in elvhen

trick weekes (solas' writer) says his one rule on writing solas is that he will return the way he is treated, i.e. being snarky to him will have him be snarky back, being kind to him will have him be kind back, something we see in how differently he speaks to, say, varric or vivienne.

cole in trespasser saying "he didn't want a body, but she made him take one. it left a scar when he burned her off his face."

2. the forgotten ones became the magisters of the tevinter imperium.

the tevinter imperium, according to dorian, was built on arlathan's fall

solas explicitly says "the first of my people do not die so easily." we see that with mythal, who has taken on the body of a mortal human and extends her lifespan by continuing to take on bodies of mortal humans, namely her daughters.

tevinter magisters hold their positions for life. additionally, these positions can be inherited by their families, as seen with dorian and his father. maybe this is how the forgotten ones continue to persist through the ages, and why they're all human now.

the tevinter imperium is the center of the elven slave trade. arlathan also used to trade in slaves. maybe they continued the tradition?

banter between dorian and solas reveals that the tevinter imperium is still using magical techniques that were practiced by the ancient elves

additionally, banter between dorian and solas reveals that paintings of old tevinter magisters depict them holding orbs similar to the artifact corypheus carries

3. archdemons are blighted ancient elven gods

archdemons carry old god souls, as was explained in origins

chantry tale says that archdemons are ancient magisters of old who were struck down (connected to tin foil hat theory number 2)

solas greatly disapproves of the grey wardens trying to pre-empt blights by slaying archdemons before they wake. maybe he's pissed bc they're ancient elves? people he knew once.

[SPOILER!!] lowkey maybe confirmed by the da4 trailer where blighted old ancient gods rise and they're calling it a blight

4. fen'harel and ghilan'nain were lovers (or something similar)

ghilan'nain was represented by a halla and fen'harel by a wolf

the exalted plains is the area where solas' personal quest happens. it has:

a giant wolf statue overlooking the valley where halla roam

packs of wolves endlessly chasing after herds of halla

a wolf statue guarding the entrance to ghilan'nain's grove

solas' sanctuary in trespasser is littered with paintings of golden halla

there's an old poem by thomas wyatt that alludes to his affair with the queen, told through the lens of a man "hunting deer." when he finally catches said deer, he's unable to touch it because it belongs to the king.

an old dalish tale in which andruil, ghilan'nain's lover, captures fen'harel for a year and a day as punishment for hunting halla

an old dalish tale in which ghilan'nain was about to destroy some of her creations to appease the gods, "but Pride stayed her hand."

[lotreckk]

ive decided to post it here too!!! information about my rook, yay

aethius "mercar" // rook for the veilguard, ma da’ise for the certain god of vengeance

age: 38-39 (he doesn't know the exact date)

height: ~5'3"

mbti: istj (close enough)

pronounce & sexuality: he/they demisexual

race & origin: tevinter city elf

class & subclass: mage, spellblade (knows basics of blood magic, but keeps quite about it)

faction: shadow dragons

"romance": elgar'nan

short description:

among the shadow dragons, aethius is known as an elf who literally forced ashur to accept himself into the organization by spying on their operations and presenting a pile of venatori corpses as "an offering". aethius asked them for help in finding information about his missing friend, a laetan scholar, named celestine mercar, in exchange for aethius's own service and skills. always silent about his past, he never quite fitted into the shadow dragons, still considering the world to be a strictly hierarchical structure with slavery and suffering being the inevitable elements of life. however, he loved minrathous, and he was smart and efficient, eager to slay the venatori, slave traders, even some magisters, viewing them as pathetic rot, destroying tevinter from within. he possessed the strange amount of knowledge about tevinter history too and rituals and easily navigated through different kind of ruins, including those under minrathous. after a while, aethius learned to trust tarquin and ashur. that was how they found out that he had once been a slave, although aethius dropped this information as casually as the fact that he had always loved cats.

one day, he got acquainted with varric, who was searching for the traces of "the dread wolf" in tevinter for lady-inquisitor lavellan. though, the shadow dragons were too busy, solving their own problems, aethius agreed to help varric. his reason was simple: they learned that there would be venatori mages at the slave market deal, who both might know about the dread wolf and not long ago had been in the same tevinter ruins, that celestine had been interested in. their plan worked but they caught an eye of tevinter authorities. thus, ashur and tarquin talked aethius into joining varric in his hunt for the dread wolf, who turned out to be fen'harel, the ancient elven trickster-god, whom aethius called fenrir for a while, according to tevinter tradition.

funfacts:

- aethius is obsessed with maps & has a detailed map of the catacombs of minrathous.

- he speaks with an accent & inserts words in tevene into his speech. in elven, he knows the basic set for tourists & random names of ancient artifacts.

- aethius prayed to lusacan once in his life (it didn't help, but as a moral support).

- dalish culture makes less sense to him than tevinter culture & stories about the ancient elven empire.

- he has a habit of drinking the most terrible coffee.

- slave traders & the venatori back in minrathous call him "that damned incaensor" (derogatory slang for a magic-using slave - dangerous but useful if controlled) and he wears it with pride. yes, he is very dangerous for them.

backstory:

aethius was born into slavery in minrathous and the entire period of his life up to the age of 15-16 often merges into a blurred canvas in his memory. his master, magister arida, was an altus mage engaged both in politics and in the study of ancient tevinter, in particular, the former temples and sanctuaries, dedicated to the old gods, which had not been not transformed into the circles of magi. he craved to possess the knowledge of the remnants of powerful magic in such places.

when aethius's magic manifested, his master taught him some basics because it was still dangerous to leave an ignorant child without any control over his magic on his own. though, magister arida quickly returned to his studies, and that's why aethius's magic has always been of the chaotic destructive type, something practical yet unstable.

aethius became a kind of a personal errand-slave-boy who was taught to silently and effectively clean up the mess after magister's rituals (and so he learned about blood magic). because of this, his relationships with other slaves and servants were bad, but he didn't really care about it as long as he could have been a useful instrument for his master. magister arida praised the old gods, explaining their "silence" by the decline of tevinter and its people. but even the unworthy hands, such as the hands of some dirty little elf, could shed blood in the name of the great dragons.

when aethius was about 16, his master found a place called sanctum lusacan under minrathous and conducted some experiments with magic and old rituals there. this lasted until an incident occurred in which magister arida came into conflict with his "colleagues" and they killed each other right in the sanctuary. this event was both horrifying and spectacular with spells flashing and summoned demons screaming around. aethius managed to hide in this chaos. it was the only time in his life when aethius actually prayed. aethius knew this place was sacred and he knew that his master wanted to hear the voices of the old gods. so he prayed for lusacan's grace because he reaized that really didn't want to die. the gods remained silent but this helped aethius to calm down somehow. for the first time, aethius decided something for himself and run away, though he did feel guilty about it.

shortly after, he met his future best friend and short-time crush - celestine mercar, a young laetan mage and scholar, who was more into history and the past than anything else around him. celestine needed a qualified servant who would accompany him on his travels and fieldwork without reporting to his father every step. aethius's position was not completely legal in tevinter, but somehow he became celestine's assistant (normal assistant this time) and, then, his closest friend.

they travelled a lot for some time, visiting ruins in different parts of thedas. celestine was very interested in old tevinter and its connection to ancient elven empire. though he was never one of those mages and magisters who praised the dominance of tevinter, celestine was first and foremost a scholar. thus, aethius listened with feigned reluctance to his friend's endless chatter about history and somehow remembered many random facts to this day. besides, he read some of celestine's books to entertain himself during long nights without anything better to do. it was also then that aethius learned to use magic properly and gained experience in exploring ruins and dealing with what one might encounter there. the thin threads of connection between arlathan and what tevinter people use in their country to this day began to fascinate aethius too. although he could never see himself as being "elven enough", he sympathized with these stories through the tevinter lens.

celestine had to get married after his father's death, since he inherited the family title. he had to settle down in the city and give up endless trips, and aethius stayed with him, periodically doing his own things in minrathous or traveling somewhere for his friend. unfortunately, celestine's wife, to whom celestine was deeply attached, died, leaving behind a child. celestine, depressed because of the inability to finish his projects and the death of his wife, shut himself off from the world in his cabinet, absorbed in books. lucero mercar - his child - was taken care of by servants and sometimes by aethius. it was not a pleasant experience for any of them, because lucero themselves felt unwanted and unloved, and aethius believed that children should be raised like in a military barracks on the principle of "learn how to swim or drown".

by the age of 18, lucero ran away from home, tired of their broken household. aethius did not know where they had gone, but he suspected that they headed to anderfels, because lucero loved heroic stories about the grey wardens. celestine also "disappeared" one day, leaving without telling anyone where he was going. aethius was left alone and lost again, still struggling to find his own path in life without dedicating himself to someone else.

so, aethius decided to at least find his friend and that was the reason why he joined the shadow dragons - they had information about all kind of things. aethius has never been an ardent supporter of the fight against slavery, not believing that there can be a future without rigid hierarchy and order. however, he had his own standards for who should be the leader of the people, so he was happy to eradicate the venatori, slave traders or any other enemy of the shadow dragons he considered undeserving of their position.

he met varric after a while, got entangled in the unimaginable events, which against his own will put him into a leading position, met a lot of people and, apparently, gods too. these events forced aethius to come face to face with all the fears, doubts and identity crises that he had avoided all these years, convincing himself that his life was "normal" and that he, not a person, but a tool, was simply not capable of living in any other way.

in addition to unwilling meetings with solas in the fade, aethius found his mind accidentally connected to another elven god, who was much more insistent in continuing conversations in aethius's dreams. aethius tried to avoid sleeping for days at a time because talking to lusacan- elgar'nan caused him an emotional turmoil worse than solas's remarks about his decisions. however as their communication developed further, aethius discovered in his mind a conflicting interest in elgar'nan, a subtle desire to understand a man whose views partly coincided with how he himself perceived the world.

aethius reluctantly and slowly changed some of his beliefs during the veilguard events, healing his old "wounds". and so he began to wonder whether elgar'nan had always been the embodiment of tyranny, or he had been corrupted. whether he had changed and hardened himself so much in the conviction of his own righteousness to protect and guide his people that the spirit he had been before has faded into obscurity.

personality traits:

- aethius is efficient and goal-oriented, always does his job well and feels it his duty to correct mistakes if he makes them. aethius can be very dedicated to his cause, however often not because of his beliefs but because he is determined to finish the job.

- he tends to be straightforward to the point when people consider him rude. although aethius really has a venomous tongue, he often just hates unnecessary small-talk. he can be sarcastic in a good mood, though his jokes are often dry and dark.

- he has a sharp mind, attentive to details, and easily invents ways to solve problems, always making plans. however, in everyday life, it is very difficult for him to change his views and get used to something new.

- aethius might be judgemental at times. it is difficult for him to apologize and express care verbally. he hates the concept of regrets, considering those who justify themselves and cry about the past as liars and hypocrites, if not weaklings. and so he does repress his own regrets, he hates feeling sorry for himself or acknowledging his own pain in any way.

- aethius prefers order to chaos, struggling to understand the concept of freedom, of life without rules and restrictions. it has been a long time since he was this child who wiped the blood from the floors of his master's mansion with an empty gaze, but he has his own standards, rules and ideals by which he lives. aethius would never admit it, but he does crave approval too, maybe even recognition of his old and hidden pain, which sometime makes it easy to influence him.

- deep down, aethius is a loyal and deeply attached person to those he trusts. it is hard for him to let people go to the point when he refuses to accept celestine's and varric's deaths he learns about during the events of the veilguard.

abilities:

aethius is good with knives and daggers, combining their use with his magic.

he mainly uses fire and lightning elements. aethius is familiar with the basics of blood magic and knows how to use it, although he rarely does it. he has not received a theoretical magical education and it is sometimes difficult for him to control his connection with the fade, though he is not afraid of spirits and demons.

he knows many random facts about the history of thedas and quite a lot about the history of ancient tevinter and arlatan in the works of tevinter scholars. in addition, he is familiar with some rituals of worship and prayers to the old gods.

aethius draws maps and it helps him calm his mind. thanks to this, he also easily navigates unfamiliar terrain.

[datvtranscripts]

Signs and Portents Deleted Dialogue

The End of the Beginning: Minrathous

Dialogue is sorted in scene order to the best of my ability.

Signs and Portents Masterpost

—

Varric: In his final fight with the elven gods, Solas imprisoned them and created a Veil that split our world from the raw magic of the Fade. But now he wanted to tear down that Veil and destroy the world… and some poor suckers had to stop him.

—

Bartender: Not that you’ll ever see it.

—

Civilian: Nice to see those Venatori cultists eat dirt for a change. Just watch your back. They own half the guards in this city.

Merchant: Don’t worry. Anyone asks, we didn’t see nothing. Merchant: Appreciate it. Merchant: Stay safe out there. The Venatori are out for blood tonight.

Dwarf: Get inside if you can! There are demons pouring from the sky!

Varric: I’ll have the Venatori wipe their feet next time.

—

Varric: Take the win and get home, ma’am.

—

Rook: Why are they still firing?

Varric: Run!

Varric: More of them?

—

(Amplifier) Looters will be subject to the full martial power of the Imperium!

(Amplifier) All citizens must stay in their homes. Anyone suspected of looting will be subject to martial authority.

(Amplifier) Remain in your homes. Imperial forces are containing the demons.

—

Varric: The Archon’s Palace. It floats over the city with a big cannon pointed down at its own people.

—

Rook: Let’s hope they’re done firing at us.

Varric: Who are they firing at now?

Harding: Hope they’re back to firing at demons instead of innocent people.

—

Harding: There! If you can bring down that crate, we can climb over.

—

Rook: See? That way would have been blocked without me clearing a path with those barrels.

Harding: I stand corrected.

—

Harding: There is where we need to go. Looks like the Venatori walled off the path.

Harding: This is where we need to go. Looks like the Venatori closed the gate.

Varric: Right. Let’s see if we can find some way through.

—

Rook: This way’s blocked. is there some other route?

Harding: Sure, if you want to be in the open for the Archon’s Palace to fire at.

—

Rook: Hang on. If I’m right about what’s in those barrels, this could be helpful.

Rook: Knew it!

Harding: That’s one way to clear a path.

—

Harding: I’m sure that will come in handy somehow.

—

Varric: Can’t get it from this side. Let’s see if we can find someplace with a better angle?

Varric: Just hit that big crystal in the middle to bring that barrier down.

Varric: There’s the crystal. Still can’t reach it, but I bet you can hit it from range.

Harding: There. The barrier’s down.

—

Venatori: Destroy the interlopers!

Venatori: Kill them, you fools!

Venatori: Death to all who oppose us!

—

Venatori: Just hit them!

Venatori: It’s three dwarves! How hard can it be?

Venatori: It’s two dwarves and lumbering Qunari! How hard can it be?

Venatori: It’s two dwarves and knife-ear! How hard can it be?

Venatori: Two of them are dwarves! How hard can it be?

—

Venatori: For Tevinter reborn!

Venatori: The glory of the Imperium runs in our veins!

Venatori: You will learn the power of the Venatori!

Venatori: Let their blood anoint a new Tevinter!

Venatori: We cannot falter! This is our destiny!

—

Venatori: Shadow Dragon Scum!

Venatori: Grey Warden fool!

Venatori: The Crows hold no power here!

Venatori: We do not fear your necromancy, Nevarran!

Venatori: We do not fear your magic!

—

Harding: There’s Dumat Plaza! Come on! Let’s get to Neve!

—

Harding: There! That’s Neve!

Varric: And lot of Venatori. Come on!

—

Neve: Nice of you to drop by!

Venatori: Strike down any who oppose us!

Venatori: Let nothing stop us!

Venatori: You’re the ones who destroyed our bar!

Venatori: The Venatori will rise again!

Venatori: You will pay for what you did!

—

Rook: How did the Dread Wolf handle the Venatori?

Neve: From what I saw? He turned them to stone.

Rook: Oh. Great. That’s a thing he can do?

Varric: Yep.

Rook: Right. Good.

—

Harding: The Venatori were everywhere before we got to you.

Neve: Of course they were. Lucky for us, they shouldn’t be a problem from here on. I put up a barrier because this district was full of demons. Any Venatori around will have plenty to worry about.

Harding: So will we.

Neve: Of the two, I’d take demons any day.

—

Harding: Why are there so many Venatori out here?

Neve: The Venatori feel powerful when people fear them. Demons running free in the streets the Venatori claim to control? That makes them look weak.

—

Neve: Not many people out. Avoiding the demons?

Varric: The Archon’s Palace is helpfully firing at anyone out in the streets.

Neve: Of course they are. Just like the Venatori. Can’t let the demons make them look weak.

—

Neve: Venatori. They must have tracked the magic to this building as well.

Harding: And then the demons found them.

—

Varric: So they were having a pissing match with chaos. Wonderful.

—

Varric: Couldn’t have happened to a nicer bunch.

—

Harding: Watch out. Lots of demons between here and there.

—

Harding: Another barrier. It looks different from the last one.

Neve: Venatori sometimes augment their barriers with supporting crystals. Let’s look around. We need to destroy those crystals before we can take down the barrier.

—

Neve: That’s a Venatori barrier. We’ll find more of them inside.

—

Varric: They’ve got no idea what they’re walking into.

—

Neve: That barrier’s simple enough. Hit it right, and you’ll bring it down.

—

Neve: Good. The main barrier crystal should be vulnerable now.

—

Neve: Right. Now let’s see what the Venatori were trying to seal away.

Harding: Maybe they found Solas and tried to trap him.

—

Harding: Looks like the entrance is through here. We’ll need to break through.

[girlwithadragonheart]

Chapter 13 - Shared Burdens

This story contains major spoilers for Dragon Age the Veilguard. Read at your own discretion!!

Kalais x Lucanis

Summary: Kalais meets with Inquisitor Lavellan, swapping stories of journeys passed. Neglecting to let anyone know she was leaving, Lucanis panics

Word Count: 3.4k

Warnings: Swearing, talk of abuse, I think that's it (let me know if I missed something)

A/N: Your Honor, I just love them

Chapter 12 DATV Masterlist Chapter 14(wip)

It’s always raining in Dock Town. The cloudy skies cast a darkness over everyone. No light is shed on the horrors and misfortunes striking the people daily. 

It just goes to show. At the end of the day, no matter what I chose people would die. I kept my head down as I made my way to the Cobbled Swan. The Inquisitor wanted to meet with me.

When I entered, she was sitting alone at a table by the windows, staring out of it absently. 

“I’m here,” I smiled sitting down across from here. “It isn’t just “Inquisitor,” is it? You were someone before that.”

“Ayla. Clan Lavellan. We try to be no one you’ve heard of,” She gave me a grin. “Morrigan is holding a perimeter. We’re alone. Tell me what Solas did at Elgar’nan’s ritual,” she said, sitting forward.

“Sounds like you already know,” I said hesitantly.

“I need to hear it from you,” she told me.

“Elgar’nan raised his Archdemon. Solas got us out of there. We saved a lot of people,” I answered.

“You sound grateful,” she observed.

“I am. He really did help.”

“It seems so. He’s always thinking about where it ends. How many of his names do you know?” She asked. “God of Lies, Dread Wolf, Fen’Harel. They’re titles he earned from enemies, followers, and fractured history. I once called him by another name. Friend.”

“Some friend.”

She chuckled. “Do you always agree with your friends?”

“We’re pretty aligned on where or not to destroy the world, if that’s what you mean,” I said.

“I will never excuse what he’s done. He’s killed people I held dear. You know this, too,” she told me.

“But…?”

“He became those names when he fought the gods, and regret for his world turned into destroying ours. Sound familiar?” She asked me.

“You’re making us sound like Solas. That’s uncomfortable.”

She huffed a laugh. “We’re not like our enemy. They’re making us do this.”

“Simple as one of Varric’s morals. Don’t become what you hate,” I said.

“Or trapped by what we’ve lost. Also one of his.” She glanced away, her expression melting into one of fondness when she looked back at me. “Tell me about the team you’ve built.”

“Are they a concern? Or…”

“You’re handling things. This part, what you have now… I just miss the banter about friends,” she told me, shifting in her seat.

I smiled slightly, glancing out the window. Of all the stories I’d heard about the Inquisitor, most in Tevinter made her seem like some kind of tyrant with the Inquisition after saving the world. Like once it was all over she completely switched gears. I knew it was bullshit, but to be under her wing of kindness was unfamiliar territory for me. I’d only had two people stick their necks out for me—Dorian, and Varric. And funny enough, they had both been a part of the Inquisition a decade ago.

The rain outside pattered against the window, a muted rhythm that filled the silence Ayla left hanging between us, an unspoken understanding of what it meant to lose and to fight.

I leaned back in my chair, my fingers tracing the edge of the table as I considered her request. “The team,” I started, my voice steady but low. “They’re… not what I expected. But they’ve become more than I could’ve hoped for.”

Ayla raised an eyebrow, her lips quirking into a faint smile as her violet eyes shone with amusement. “Sounds like there’s a story there.”

“There always is,” I said, letting out a small laugh. “Lucanis, for starters. He’s a walking contradiction—sharp as a blade, but just as protective. He’d throw himself into fire for anyone he cares about, even if he’d grumble about it the whole way.”

Ayla’s expression softened. “A man like that can be dangerous in all the right ways.”

“Don’t I know it,” I replied, shaking my head with a smile. “When I went with Varric, I didn’t expect to be the one leading. But I guess he saw something in me.”

Her gaze flicked down for a moment, a shadow crossing her features, but she nodded. “Varric’s always had a way of seeing people for who they are. He was the same with me when the sky exploded. He was always someone you could turn to if you needed someone to lean on or to laugh.”

I nodded, my chest tightening at the thought of him sitting in that room in the Lighthouse, barely healed enough to be up walking around. I thought about the other flickering in my mind. “And then there’s the unexpected ones. Taash. Bellara. Davrin. Each of them carries something—grief, anger, hope. They’ve all lost, just like us, but they keep moving. They keep fighting.”

Ayla tilted her head, her eyes searching mine. “And you trust them?”

I paused. “I have to. We don’t have the luxury of mistrust anymore.”

Her smile was faint but genuine. “You’ve built something rare. Don’t lose sight of it.”

The rain continued its relentless rhythm, a quiet backdrop to her words. I studied her for a moment, the weight of her own burdens evident in her expression, even as she tried to mask it with compassion and a touch of humor. “What about you?” I asked. “Do you have that? A team, a family?”

Her grin was fleeting, more wistful than amused. “I had that once. A ragtag group of misfits, much like yours, I suppose. We fought battles we weren’t meant to win. And we didn’t, not always. But we had each other.”

Her words hung in the air, a reminder of what could be lost. Of what I was trying so desperately to hold onto. “And now?” I pressed gently.

“Now, I have Morrigan. And Cullen, with all the family he has left. Our mabari, Barkspawn.”

“I’ve heard tales of the Commander,” I said quietly. 

“I’m sure they’re… colorful.” She sighed. “My husband holds many regrets, but the Inquisition was his chance to redeem himself.”

“Is that how you met him?” I asked.

Her smile softened, and for a moment, the Inquisitor seemed to shed the weight of her title, the sharp edges of command dulled by a memory she clearly held close. “Cullen and I met during the early days of the Inquisition. He was trying so hard to hold everything together, even when the world felt like it was falling apart.”

I leaned forward, curious despite myself. “And you? Were you trying to hold it together, too?”

She chuckled, the sound light but tinged with a bittersweet undertone. “I suppose I was. I didn’t set out to lead anything, let alone the Inquisition. I was just… another elf from a clan trying to survive. But sometimes, life has other plans.”

The rain outside picked up, drumming more insistently against the window. Inside the quiet warmth of her words contrasted sharply with the cold gray world beyond. “I’ve heard about what the Inquisition accomplished,” I said. “But not much about what it cost.”

Her violet eyes met mine, and I saw the weight of those years reflected there. “It cost everything, Kalais. People, trust, innocence. But it also gave us something—a chance to build, to protect what mattered. Cullen reminded me of that every day.”

She paused, her gaze flicking back to the window as though she could see the echoes of her past in the rain. He was a man haunted by his choices, by what he’d done in the name of duty. But he never stopped trying to be better, even when he thought it was too late.”

I thought about the weight of my own regrets, the ghosts that followed me. “Did you ever think it was too late for you?” I asked, glancing down at my hands on the table’s edge.

She rested a hand over mine. “Every day,” she said softly. “But Cullen never let me believe it. He saw me—not as the Inquisitor, not as some symbol or savior, but as Ayla. And I saw him, too. We found strength in each other, even when we had none left for ourselves.”

The room felt quieter somehow, the rain outside a steady rhythm underscoring her words. I glanced down at my hands, flexing them as though I could feel the weight of the lives I carried. “It sounds… rare. To find someone like that.”

“It is,” she agreed, her voice soft. “But you already have, haven’t you?” She asked, tilting her head. “You’ve built something rare, Kalais. A team, a family. Don’t let the darkness make you forget that.”

Her words settled over me like a cloak, offering a kind of solace I hadn’t realized I needed. “It’s hard,” I admitted.

“I know. It’s a lot of responsibility for anyone to carry,” she said gently.

“Responsibility can be a chain,” I said, my voice soft.

“Or a purpose,” she countered, her eyes meeting mine. “Don’t let it chain you, Kalais. Let it guide you. Because at the end of the day, it’s the people we fight for that make all of this worth it.”

I nodded, her words settling somewhere deep inside me. Outside, the rain kept falling, but inside, the conversation left a warmth I hadn’t expected—a reminder that, even in the darkest places, there were still connections to be made. Still reasons to fight.

—---------------------

The walk back to the Eluvian was uneventful, the rain soaking through my cloak despite my best efforts. The rhythm of it, the steady drum against the cobblestones, seemed to echo Ayla’s words in my mind. A team, a family. Don’t let the darkness make you forget that.

The dim glow of the eluvian came into view, its blue glow breaking through the cold gray haze. I put my hand against it, seeking the Lighthouse before stepping through. The warmth hit me first, and I shed my cloak, hoping to get it through to my bones and shake the cold rain off. I heard the sound of footsteps—quick, sharp, agitated.

“Where the hell have you been?” Lucanis’ voice cut through the quiet, a mixture of relief and exasperation. He appeared from the shadows of the hall, his vest half unbuttoned, and his hair disheveled like he’d been running his hands through it over and over.

I froze, taken aback by the raw emotion in his tone. “I—what?”

“You didn’t tell anyone where you were going,” he snapped, pacing against, his boots thudding softly against the floorboards. “Just gone. No word. No explanation. I thought—” He stopped abruptly, his hands curling into fists at his sides. “Maker, Kalais. I thought something had happened to you.”

I took the few steps to close the gap between us, reaching for his hands. The second my palms hit his fists, his hands relaxed. I held them gently, rubbing my thumbs over his knuckles. “I’m sorry,” I said quietly. “I’m okay,” I told him.

Lucanis’s eyes trailed to the side, and I caught the faint purple haze of Spite to my left. His face was close to my neck, scrunched in concentration, when I looked at him with a raised brow, he straightened quickly.

“Rook. Sees Spite.” His face scrunched again before relaxing slightly, though that crease between his brows was always strained. “Smells like. Salt and rain. Not Kalais.”

“It’s Dock Town,” I told him with a small smile. I wiped my hand over my wrist, holding it out to Spite. “See, it’s me.”

He brought his face close, breathing in my scent, carefully inspecting me. “Dock town?” Lucanis questioned. “You went to Minrathous? That place is crawling with Venatori.” He frowned.

“I know,” I admitted, glancing back at him with a tired smile. “I was meeting with the Inquisitor.” Lucanis stared at me, his eyes narrowing. I cupped his cheek gently, “I’m here. Safe.” I gestured down at myself. “See? No harm done.”

Spite, still hovering near, let out a soft growl of annoyance—or perhaps approval. It was always hard to tell with him. “Smells true,” he muttered before stepping back and disappearing into the deeper shadows of the Lighthouse.

Lucanis let out a long sigh, dragging a hand through his hair. “Kalais, you can’t just—” He cut himself off, shaking his head. “You’re going to send me gray, I swear.”

I smiled faintly. As I stepped closer, his hands braced my hips, and I dragged a hand through his hair, not missing the way his eyelids fluttered. “Gray would suit you,” I teased, my voice light, though my chest tightened at the lingering worry in his gaze.

He huffed a reluctant laugh, his shoulders finally relaxing. “Next time, tell me. Or someone. Don’t just vanish.”

“I won’t, I’m sorry.” I gave him a peck on the lips.

Lucanis’s sigh was heavy as he dragged a hand through his hair, the exasperation in his movements giving way to something softer. His dark eyes lingered on me, and the shift in his expression told me he’d noticed something I hadn’t meant for him to see. His gaze swept over my face, and his hands moved, thumbs brushing over the faint shadows under my eyes.

His touch was so gentle for hands so stained with blood.

“When’s the last time you actually slept?” He asked, his tone gentler now, though the concern was unmistakable.

I blinked at him, caught off guard. “I slept last night,” I said easily, my hands circling his wrists. I didn’t know if I was trying to push him off or hold the warmth of his hands cradling my face. 

Lucanis frowned, his thumbs now swiping my cheekbones. “You look exhausted, Kalais.”

I gave him a wry smile, trying to keep things light. “Well, you know… saving the world can do that to a person.”

He didn’t laugh. He didn’t even crack a smile. Instead, his eyes stayed locked on mine, unyielding, as if waiting for the truth to slip out whether I wanted it to or not. The weight of his gaze was like a silent invitation---or maybe a challenge. I swallowed, my feigned humor faltering under the steady warmth in his eyes.

Finally, I sighed and looked away, my voice quieter when I spoke. “It’s just… a nightmare. It’s nothing.”

“It’s not nothing if it’s keeping you up,” he countered softly. His eyes trailed down, like he couldn’t bear the weight of the darkness in my eyes. His right hand followed his eyes, and he started squeezing the rainwater out of the ends of my hair, his focus shifting as if grounding himself. “You should get out of this armor,” he said gently, his voice soft but insistent.

A part of me wanted to protest, to tell him I was fine, but the way he looked at me---like he wouldn’t accept anything less than my well-being---made the words catch in my throat. Instead, I nodded, my exhaustion creeping in as the adrenaline from Dock Town ebbed away.

Lucanis gave me a brief, searching glance, then gestured back up the stairs. “Go. I’ll be behind you.”

I arched a brow, a faint smirk tugging at my lips. “Enjoying the view, no doubt.”

His ears tinged faintly pink, but he didn’t rise to the bait. “You’re impossible. Go,” he repeated, the corner of his mouth quirking upward. “I’d like to think I’ve earned a little trust.”

With a dramatic sigh, I headed to my room, pulling the door halfway closed behind me. I shed my armor piece by piece, the weight of it almost symbolic as it clattered to the floor. My linen undershirt clung to me, damp from the rain and my own sweat, and I swapped it for a dry tunic before calling out, “You’re missing a golden opportunity here, Lucanis. Most people would kill for this kind of show.”

“Mierda, Kalais,” he groaned, his voice muffled through the door. “You’re impossible.”

“I’m just saying,” I teased, buttoning my shirt up halfway. “You don’t strike me as the bashful type. You’ve certainly seen worse.”

“I am trying to be decent,” he replied, his accent thick with his exasperation, though amusement peeked through his scolding tone. “But if you keep pushing, I’ll toss that out the window.”

I laughed softly as I opened the door, finding him leaning against the frame, arms crossed. “All done,” I said breezily, and his eyes flicked over me, his expression softening when he saw the faint smile on my face.

“Sit,” he said, gesturing toward the edge of the chaise.

I raised an eyebrow but obeyed, my legs aching more than I cared to admit. I sat up against the arm of the chaise, putting my legs up and letting myself relax just a bit. Lucanis grabbed a towel from the small dresser and stepped closer, pulling over a stool as he sat behind me. His fingers deftly worked through the braids in my hair, undoing them with surprising delicacy.

“You know,” I murmured, a teasing lilt in my voice, “for someone who kills Venatori with their bare hands, you’re surprisingly good at this.”

Lucanis huffed a quiet laugh. “Don’t tell anyone,” he said, his voice warm. “I have a reputation to uphold.”

I closed my eyes as his fingers worked through the knots and tangles in my hair, the steady rhythm of his movements oddly soothing. For a moment, the weight in my chest lightened, and the tension in my shoulders began to ease. The world outside seemed distant, and I allowed myself to just exist in the quiet comfort of his presence.

“Thank you,” I said softly, the teasing edge to my voice fading.

“You don’t need to thank me, pequena polilla,” he said, working out the final few strands from my braids and running his fingers through my hair.

I smiled faintly but said nothing as he started scrunching the soft towel in my hair to get out the rainwater. I was unwilling to break the fragile peace that had settled between us. The silence stretched, but it was the kind of silence that felt safe, like an unspoken understanding.

His hands were gentle as he pulled my hair over the arm of the chaise, and I laid my head back, letting my eyes flutter shut. “It’s always the same,” I whispered. 

His hands stilled for less than a second before resuming his ministrations.

“Tevinter,” I said. “The magister who… owned me. His wife---she was kind. The only kind person in that house. But when she died, he…” My throat tightened, and I swallowed hard. “He blamed me. Said I brought the sickness that took her.”

Lucanis didn’t speak, but his hands stroked through my hair, grazing the most sensitive parts of my neck and making me shiver. His presence was steady, grounding, and it gave me strength to continue.

“I never see his face,” I said, my voice trembling slightly. “But I remember how he looked at me. Like I was nothing. Not even a person.” The memories clawed at the edges of my mind. “He hated me,” I said quietly. “More than the other slaves. More than anyone.”

Lucanis shifted, and his hands were off me. I opened my eyes when I felt the dip in the chaise beside me. Lucanis sat on the edge, facing me, and he took my hands, brushing his thumbs over my knuckles. After a moment, he looked up at me, bringing my knuckles to his lips.

“You did not deserve it,” he said softly. “You are not his. You’re free, Kalais. And no one---no magister, no nightmare---can take that from you.” He held my mismatched eyes with his brown ones, glancing between them with sincerity.

His words settled over me like a balm, and I felt a lump rise in my throat. I nodded, though the weight of his gaze made it hard to speak.

He reached up, his hand brushing against my cheek. “You are stronger than the chains he put on you.”

A tear slipped down my cheek, and he caught it with his thumb, his touch gentle. “I don’t feel strong,” I admitted.

Lucanis’s brow furrowed slightly, his hand moving to cup my face fully. “You were raised in a hell of his creation. And yet you endured. That takes more strength than most could imagine conjuring.”

I leaned into his touch, the warmth of his palm chasing away some of the lingering chill. “And you call me impossible,” I feigned a scoff, playfully rolling my eyes through the tears trying to fall. A smile tugged at my lips despite myself.

His own lips curved into a small smile, and he leaned forward, pressing them to mine gently. “Because you are,” he grinned. I raised a brow, and he chuckled. “Rest. I’ll be here with you.”

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A/N: I'm procrastinating the next couple chapters (I'm not ready for The Reveal ;-;)

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Tags: @encrytpta

[marie-wisp-of-curiosity]

DA:TV thoughts, part two

Part one here, about Rook!

Spoilers for everything Dragon Age.

ABOUT THE TONE: An homage to our favorite Thedasian writer!

I think DA:TV's writing references Varric's books.

I was reminded at points of DA2, where Varric tells the story of the Champion to Cassandra, the one he ends up writing in his most popular book.

DA: TV's more "campy" sides are inspired by serials and pulp fiction. Some, but not all, signs of this are:

The end of chapter narrations where "Varric" is hinting at what's to come, like a serial's writer would.

Neve's story that is written like a pulp fiction detective story!

The theme of books, reading, and writing being present throughout the game. I loved the book club codex entries so much! The end of chapter narrations also makes me think that Rook is telling this story after the facts. If this was just Rook, in the present, imagining Varric telling their story, they wouldn't know the future. I think that by showing us that our narrator knows what is coming, the game may be telling us that this is Rook telling the story after the facts. (*Before the reveal of Varric's death, this actually was part of what fooled me. I remember thinking that if Varric was telling us what's to come, he was going to survive. * :') ) This would also work with the idea that Rook is Varric's successor… Maybe Rook is Thedas' next writing sensation!

About the villains, the Crows and Dalish elves joining the elven gods About the villains In DA:TV, Rook doesn't spend a lot of time explaining the nuances of why the Big Bad Guys are bad because they don't need to. What Rook needs their public to know is that those assholes kill and enslave innocent people and that they will destroy the world for power. We do not get a big slavery in Tevinter plotline or mission, and I think that was a sensible choice in the game we got. It's still mentioned often. My favorite example is Lorelei, the Shadow Dragon's shopkeeper, who is one of the elves that was sold into slavery to Tevinter by Loghain in DAO. Slavery, blood magic, violence, and abuse are everywhere in the game, as part of its context.

I think that narrative choice was made because of the time they actually got to make the game, but also because that's not the point. This story is not about how fucked up the world is; it's about how to actually save it. It's not about the abuse or trauma; it's about healing. Rook has to find people who already see how messed up the BBGs are and round them up to make things better.

Still, there is some nuance about the smaller villains: it is said towards the end of the game that any Venatori or Antaam soldiers that want out are spared and helped. Even some BBG, like The Butcher, chose to do the right thing (in their way) at the end. I was also glad we got to see Qunari people outside the Antaam and regular people in Tevinter; to me, that felt more important to support an idea that transcends all Dragon Age media: people are people, no matter where they come from.

The Crows I do wish we had gotten a darker portrait of the Crows. They were changed in one of the books, and in DA:TV they are shown more like vigilantes than an actual guild of assassins. It does feel like a choice made for time, maybe? It would have been interesting to see Rook struggle with working with them. Or maybe the Talons we work with could have been shown as exceptions to the brutal ways of their predecessor? I feel the same about the Lords of Fortune; the "cultural" artifacts thing didn't make a lot of sense to me, and I would have found it more interesting if it was a bit more challenged. We do get more nuance with the Grey Wardens, so I do think this is a time thing. The idea of working with groups you disagree with on some stuff because they also are ready to do the work to save the word could have been very interesting to explore.

That said, if you believe my theory that the game is the story told by Rook, you can tell yourself this is just part of their editing of a more nuanced truth, hé hé!

About the Dalish Going with my theory that this is Rook's telling of the events, I also think that they don't talk about Fen'Harel's agents or elves siding on the side of the Evanuris on purpose. There was probably some, in actuality, but Rook knows very well that elves are already persecuted enough as it is and won't risk giving them even more bad press.

In conclusion! I have so much more to say about that game, but this is already so long! I'll probably write more as I continue to think about it. I hope you enjoyed reading this and wish you a great day! Au revoir!

[seeker-ophelia]

Nothing in any lore connects my people to the Old God Dragons who became Archdemons.

Spoilers below, you've been warned, heads up, #Long Post

In the rotunda with Solas, you have the options to ask him some questions about Corypheus.

Inky: Tell me about his orb. I would like to know more about the orb he carries. As I said, that must be the means by which he created the breach. I suspect the blast that destroyed the conclave was more accident than anything. The result of unlocking power that had sought release for ages. What I cannot understand is how he managed to survive such an explosion. Inky: (Is the orb Elvhen) You said you believed that the orb is Elvhen? *Solas in the most snooty, condescending tone: I never would have believed a Tevinter mage could unlock such a powerful Relic. It clearly enhances his abilities, giving him access to power he should never have known. Inky: Like the power to control the archdemon? Indirectly, one assumes. Nothing in any lore connects my people (Ancient Elvhen) to the Old God Dragons who became Archdemons.

What? Why wouldn’t it? You got 7 Evanuris (+ Mythal), 7 Old Gods. People wernt stupid. Why wouldn’t you make a connection? THEY ALREADY MADE THE CONENCITON IN THE ASTRARIUMS.

And he doesn't say THERE ISNT or THERES NO CONNECTION… he says NOTHING IN ANY LORE… Did he scrub the lore?

Why would he? To prevent others from trying to ascend to godhood like he had?

Nothing in any lore connects my people (Ancient Elvhen) to the Old God Dragons who became Archdemons.

Sidebar: Im super mad at how a Dalish Inky DOESN’T question him more about this. Who are HIS people? We know at this point Solas does not consider himself Dalish. But he’s not a city elf. So what is he? WHY doesn’t the Inquisitor, especially a DALISH Inquisitor, ask him more about this? It makes me big mad.

And as of the leak today,

We absolutely 100% know that, if the Old Gods were not 100% The Evanuris, they are at last a third the Evanuris.

(OP why you making me do math, why a third? Why not half?)

Lets rewind.

Long ago, when time itself was young, the only things in existence were the sun and the land. The sun, curious about the land, bowed his head close to her body, and Elgar'nan was born in the place where they touched. As a gift to Elgar'nan, the land brought forth great birds and beasts of sky and forest, and all manner of wonderful green things. —From Codex entry: Elgar'nan: God of Vengeance

Lets take this to mean, not the literal birth of the man, but the creation of a God. The Sun bowed his neck (like a dragon neck), to touch the land (like a titan), and the first God was born.

Interesting Thing 1) He just called his clan leader a keeper. But a Keeper is the mage leader of a Dalish clan. We assume this is a dwarf because we find it in the Deep Roads, but this might be an elf. An elf who's whole clan was decimated and is going to join the Qun.

Codex entry: Torn Notebook in the Deep Roads, Section 2 Many of these pages are filled with sketches of elven statues matching the ones found in the area, along with notes and what look like attempts to practice Qunlat: They say the agents of Fen'Harel caused trouble in the Crossroads. I wish I knew. I wish whoever fights in the name of the old wolf was around to fight when the darkspawn took my clan. Mine is not to question. I have chosen the Qun. The Qun will protect me. Rethost: You all protect Rethadim: They all protect Rethsaam: We all protect These statues are older than anything I saw in my days with the clan. The area's dwarven, though. What were the ancient elves doing down here? Mining? Where were the dwarves? Easier to have them mine it. Not a trading post. You don't go into a friend's home, knock over their gods, and put up your own. War? I don't remember any legends about our people fighting the dwarves. Though I remember my Keeper telling a story about how the dwarves fear the sun because of Elgar'nan's fire. A metaphor for the elves of Arlathan driving the dwarves underground? The Qunari like metaphors. I should share that.

Interesting Thing 2) the dwarves fear the sun because of Elgar'nan's fire.

Codex entry: Dwarven Inscriptions: Hissing Wastes Fairel, Paragon, fled from the strife his brilliance created, the strife that destroyed thaigs, sundered houses, from weapons that clan used against clan. His own clan and his two sons followed Fairel to the pitiless surface, the surface where they would hide from the war that took their home.

"Oh yeah, I remember that. Fuck I hated the Hissing Wastes."

Codex entry: A Journal on Dwarven Ruins (Excerpt) … The statues here were chiseled thousands of years ago, I'm sure of it. … The writing talks about "the sad parting from the Stone." … … It's a Paragon. The man who lead the people here, who built this city, was master smith Paragon Fairel…. ... I was tracing heraldry etched on a wall when I noticed pictures of weapons with winged lizards worked into the decoration. I spent the rest of the day translating the inscriptions. This verse was apparently passed down through Fairel's house, through his father to his father's father and so on for hundred of generations: "From the Stone, have no fear of anything, but the stone-less sky betrays with wings of flame. If the surface must be breached, if there is no other way, bring weapons against the urtok, and heed their screams." "Urtok" means "dragon." Why was it part of an ancient crest? Why were these dwarves so worried about a monster they'd never see that they worked it into their weapons? This place becomes more impossible each day.

Lets Assume then, that the Elgar’nan’s fire, is Urtok fire. Dragon fire. That’s the Sun. It’s the Sun in dwarven legend, AND, it’s the sun in Elgar’dad’s story.

OK. We got Dragon and Titan.

Sun and Stone.

Sun + Stone + Elf/Mage = God?

Blue and Yellow?

Remember the Flemyth/Kieran Scene. (In my headcannon, these are called Navi-bitches)

We KNOW with 100% certainty that Urthemiel is a blue navi-bitch.

I think it is safe to say that all of the Dragon Navi’s are blue because of the last Flemythal scene in DA:I. A blue wisp goes through the mirror (Urthemiel we assume?) and another blue navi-bitch goes from Flemyth to Solas, effectively killing Flemyth.

So let’s assume ALL dragon Navi-souls are blue.

Blue and Gold waves (probably magic). – with the 8 pointed star (right elf) in light green, and the "sun" in red (center).

(I think its safe to assume now the center red sun is either a red lyrium grove or blighted lyrium)

The Gold Titan heart, with Anruils spear.

Only thing I cant figure is why the 8 pointed star in the gold elfs arms is green.

Its not blue, its not gold anymore.

And Corypheus’s orb is red:  (maybe because it got infected with red lyrium/the blight?)

OUR Mark (The Inquisitors Hand) is Green… so maybe when a Titan heart is taken out of the mountain it turns green?

Looks like Corypheus tried to overpower the orb and that’s why it fucked him in the face?

See green and green? And Corypiss is red.

“Dumat! Ancient Ones! I beseech you! If you exist, if you ever truly existed, aid me now!”

And the orb smack-fucks Corypants in the FACE. Get fucked scrub we don’t like your tainted power.

And the orb is green again.

Are ALL orbs green? Or only THIS one?

I mean, basic colour theory tells us that blue and yellow make green, but we already know the old gods were separated from their orbs because of Kierans blue Navi-bitch.

What happened to the rest of them? What happened to the rest of the Blue Dragon Navi’s? Does putting them into a warden and then killing the warden actually kill the blue spirit?

This is a screenshot from Varrics voiceover (Spoiler Alert).

Looks like an orb to me.

And she’s gold. Maybe slightly green.

SO, where does all of this lead.

Five Gold semicircles missing - 5 Blights. 5 Archdemons. 5 Old Gods. 5 of the Evanuris. But we KNOW their Navi's were blue. Why use Gold? [To erase the Elf-Dragon aspect, Solas you sly fox?]

And where are they now?

We can assume Morrigan has a Dragon-Navi. Solas has a Dragon-Navi. That still leaves 3 or 4 (if Solas has Mythals Navi or a different Old God Navi).

... It really really bothers me that the star outside of the titan is green.

“Emerald water of the Fade”? Is it because the fade itself whenever we’ve gone in it is green-ish? Is the Fade just green? Is magic green?

Fuck it lets go full circle.

Nothing in any lore connects my people to the Old God Dragons who became Archdemons.

Ok Solas. Why?

Solas painted the Trespasser Frescos. He catalogued the evidence of the Evanuris Sundering Titans.

WHY?

Why “remember” the killing of the Titans and NOT that the Old Gods were the Evanuris?

He wanted the Evanuris gone because he wanted to free the elves from the tyranny of the Evanuris (I’m assuming they were using slaves for blood magic-that’s another lore rant). He was angry that they “killed” Mythal.

Solas wants Him freeing slaves, and Him removing vallaslin, remembered. He wants his creation of the veil to be remembered, but he doesn’t want anyone to know the Old Gods = Locked up Evanuris Navi’s.

WHY?

Why show people essentially how to become gods, sundering titans, but ignore the dragon part?

Honestly I don’t know at this point my brain hurts. And I have so many questions now.

Where are the rest of the Evanuris?

Where my Shadow Twins at?

Looking way more likely now that Ghilly is actually Anduil-Ghilly Hybrid, w/ a bit of parasitic-twin-syndrome going on.

Sylaise and June? I have so many questions for you, we didn’t even get to meet you.

WHERE ARE YOU?

Yavana is an infamous Antivan (biiitch we're going there in DATV) Witch of the Wilds known as the "Beast of the Tellari swamps".

Yavana Quotes:

"The blood of dragons is the blood of the world."

(to Alistair) Your heart beats with the old blood, as well. Where do you think it comes from? It sings of a time when dragons ruled the skies. A time before the Veil, before the mysteries were forgotten. Can you hear it?"

Alistair: "You and Morrigan and Flemeth...all you do is manipulate and lie."

Yavana: "That is our craft, but not our purpose. Mankind destroys without understanding, yet I preserve."

Yavana, my girl. Hunny. Girlboss. What are you preserving sweetie? And WHERE ARE THEY NOW THAT ALISTAIR KILLED YOU? WHO HAS THE NAVI’S, YAVANA??

And WHY is it so damn important for SOLAS Mythal to stop the rest of the world from figuring it out?

[transandersrights]

Bioware's dislike of the mage rebellion

I really enjoyed Absolution, but it continues to immensely frustrate me that people writing for Bioware refuse to write pro-rebellion mages. Qwydion is a "rebel mage" - whose introductory line about the topic is that she isn't actually a rebel. She's a mercenary who pretends to care about the rebellion because people pay more for a cause. It annoyed me, but also got me thinking:

Since Anders, there have been no (afaik) pro-rebellion mages in major roles in Dragon Age media - and very few pro-rebellion characters have ever been portrayed in a favourable light.

Major mage characters since the start of the mage rebellion (I'm counting from the end of DA2), excluding comics/short stories/Tevinter Nights:

Rhys (Asunder). He starts as a Libertarian who defects to the Aequitarians because of disagreements with a pro-rebellion mage. He votes in favour of mages leaving the Circles, but he's not exactly happy about it.

Felassan (Masked Empire). Not particularly concerned with the rebellion. Definitely has other priorities - the Circle can't really touch him.

Valya (Last Flight). The whole premise behind her existence in the novel (I haven't finished it yet) is that she doesn't want to fight in the rebellion. She would rather die as a Warden than take her chances as a rebel.

Vivienne (Inquisition). We know how this one goes. Pro-Circle, fervently anti-rebellion.

Solas (Inquisition). Not pro-Circle, but he's more apostate than rebel and more *gestures at his whole deal* than apostate.

Dorian (Inquisition). Tevinter, with little to no stakes in the rebellion. Will specifically voice his doubts about whether a full alliance with the mage rebellion is actually a good idea.

Mage Inquisitor (Inquisition). Can absolutely hold anti-Circle and pro-rebellion views. Only a Trevelyan mage Inquisitor can have been a rebel, though.

Qwydion (Absolution). As discussed above, more of a mercenary than a rebel and her only comment on the matter is stating that she isn't one.

Saphira (Absolution). Again, a Tevinter mage with no real stake in the rebellion. Was seemingly in Ferelden during Inquisition, but makes no comment on the rebellion.

And what about the narrative's general treatment of mage characters, particularly mage rebels? Well, it's not good. People have already discussed at length that Anders is almost universally demonised in post-DA2 Dragon Age media that mentions him, but he's not the only one.

The most fervent mage rebels in Asunder are Adrian and Fiona - the former is generally discredited as a scary radical who alienates people with her actions, and the latter is portrayed largely as foolish/weak in Inquisition (I disagree, but the narrative of Inquisition has little time for it). The mage rebellion in Inquisition is seen as a terrible, dangerous group destroying the region just as much as the Templars and for just as bad a reason.

More recent Dragon Age entries are also more generally anti-blood magic - no blood mage companions in Inquisition, no specialisation, characters who will speak against it frequently (most notably Hawke), and a blood mage villain in Absolution. Not to mention that Absolution also inadvertently reinforces the "necessity" of Harrowings by showing that Rezaren failed his.

And that isn't even the end of it!! There's a general narrative arc in Dragon Age which serves to validate the Chantry view of mages - the Blight was (seemingly) caused by Tevinter mages. The elven gods were just powerful mages - and they were slavers just like in Tevinter (making our only two examples of mage-dominated societies also slave-based). Mage companions deceive or betray you, their actions responsible/anticipated to be responsible for hundreds of deaths in a way that isn't the case for other former companions. The mage who found the cure for tranquility accidentally killed everyone in the city. From the Chantry boom onwards, 3/5 of our biggest in-game antagonists/bosses have been mages. If we're counting Absolution, that brings us up to 4/6.

This means that the general message of recent Dragon Age isn't just a disdain for the rebellion and its participants, but also a general lean towards saying that the rebellion should never have happened in the first place - because the Templars are right. Mages are Bad.

This probably isn't much of a revelation for a lot of people, but it stands completely in contrast with how I (and a lot of people) understand mage-related conflicts in Dragon Age. How Bioware have managed to set up a compelling narrative showing oppression+attempts to deconstruct it and then decided that no one should resist it (and if they do, they're never good people) is just.......what.

[daitranscripts]

Iron Bull Cutscene

Dragon Hunting

Iron Bull Masterpost

If Bull is in the party when a dragon is fought

Approaching a dragon Iron Bull: Looks like Dragon territory. Oh, this is gonna be good.

When the dragon appears Iron Bull: Oh, would you look at that! That is magnificent!

During the fight

Iron Bull: (Shouts)

Iron Bull: Oh, yeah! Look at that! Taarsidath-an halsaam!

When Bull takes damage

Iron Bull: (Grunts.)

Iron Bull: I’m okay!

Iron Bull: Still worth it!

When the dragon is defeated This… is the greatest day of my life! Did you all see that? (Shouts.)

—

The PC speaks to Bull back at Skyhold

Iron Bull: Inquisitor! Come have a drink!

Iron Bull: To killing a high dragon like warriors of legend!

1 - Dialogue options:

Investigate: What is this? [2]

General: I’m not drinking that. [3]

General: [Drink.] [4] +Iron Bull approves

2 - Investigate: What is this? PC: What exactly am I supposed to be drinking? Iron Bull: Maraas-lok. PC: What does that mean? Iron Bull: It means drink! [back to 1]

3 - General: I’m not drinking that. PC: No offence, Bull, but I think you’re on your own. Iron Bull: Ah, suit yourself. Scene ends.

4 - General: [Drink.] PC: (Swallows.) Iron Bull: I know, right? Put some chest on your chest.

Iron Bull: That little gurgle right before it spat fire? And that roar. What I wouldn’t give to roar like that. The way the ground shook when it landed. The smell of fires burning… Taarsidath-an halsaam. You know Qunari hold dragons sacred? Well, as much as we hold anything sacred.

Iron Bull: Here, your turn.

5 - Dialogue options:

Investigate: What was that Qunari phrase? [6]

General: I’m done drinking. [7]

General: [Drink.] [8] +Iron Bull approves

6 - Investigate: What was that Qunari phrase? PC: That thing you just said. You shouted it during the fight, too. What does it mean? Iron Bull: Oh, taarsidath-an halsaam? Closest translation would be, “I will bring myself sexual pleasure later, while thinking about this with great respect.” PC: You shouted that while it was breathing fire at us. Iron Bull: I know, right? (Grunts.) [back to 5]

7 - General: I’m done drinking. PC: I think I’m finished, thanks. Iron Bull: Really? Really. (Chuckles.) More for me, then. Scene ends.

8 - General: [Drink.] PC: (Swallows.) Iron Bull: Yeah! The second cup’s easier. Most of the nerves in your throat are dead after the first one.

Iron Bull: Ataashi. “The glorious ones.” That’s our word for them. Ataaaaasheeeeeee.

9 - Dialogue options:

Investigate: Why are dragons sacred? [10]

General: I’m sorry we had to kill it. [11]

General: Now I feel awkward. [12]

General: They’re just beasts. [13] -Iron Bull slightly disapproves

10 - Investigate: Why are dragons sacred? PC: Why do you think the Qunari think of dragons that way? Iron Bull: Well, you know how we have horns? We kind of look more… dragony… than most people. Maybe it’s that. But a few of the Ben-Hassrath have this crazy old theory. See, the tamassrans control who we mate with. They breed us for jobs like you’d breed dogs or horses. What if they mixed in some dragon a long time ago? Maybe drinking the blood, maybe magic. I don’t know. But something in that dragon we killed… spoke to me. [back to 9]

11 - General: I’m sorry we had to kill it. PC: It’s a shame we had to kill the dragon. Iron Bull: Damn good fight. [14]

12 - General: Now I feel awkward. PC: When you put it like that, I’m worried I killed one of your gods or something. Iron Bull: Nah. One of Tevinter’s gods, maybe. They worshipped dragons, right? Kill the shit out of them all you like. [14]

13 - General: They’re just beasts. PC: Dragons are big and powerful, but they’re just animals. Iron Bull: They’re more than that. Shit, the Vints used to worship the damn things. [14]

14 - Scene continues.

Iron Bull: Dragons are the embodiment of raw power. But it’s all uncontrolled, savage… So they need to be destroyed. Taming the wild. Order out of chaos. Have another drink.

Dialogue options:

General: I’m really done. [15]

General: [Drink.] [16] +Iron Bull approves

15 - General: I’m really done. PC: I’ve had more than enough already. Iron Bull: Your loss!

16 - General: [Drink.] PC: (Swallows.) Iron Bull: (Laughs.) Nice! To dragons! (Swallows.)

Dialogue options:

Flirt: To you. [17] +Iron Bull slightly approves

General: To good fights. [18] +Iron Bull slightly approves

General: To bringing order. [19] +Iron Bull slightly approves

General: To bad drinks. [20] +Iron Bull slightly approves

17 - Flirt: To you. PC: To the Iron Bull. Iron Bull: And his ass-kicking Inquisitor.

If romanced/slept with Bull Iron Bull: Hey. Hey, kadan, listen. I always want to say this, and I never can when we’re off saving the world.

Iron Bull (female PC): You’ve got fantastic tits. Iron Bull (male PC): You’ve got a fantastic ass.

PC: Awwww. Scene ends.

18 - General: To good fights. PC: To finding the biggest, baddest things in the world and showing them that we’re badder. Iron Bull: Anaan! Scene ends.

19 - General: To bringing order. PC: To building order out of chaos… even if it means killing some dragons along the way. Iron Bull: Even. “Even if?” Especially if! Scene ends.

20 - General: To bad drinks. PC: To whatever this is, and the hangover it’s going to give me tomorrow. Iron Bull: Anaan! Scene ends.

[yes-these-obsessions-are-healthy]

Just struck me that I still don’t know whether the Veil should be taken down or not.

For ten years, I’ve read Solavellan stories of Lavellan fighting tooth and nail to prevent the Veil from coming down. These stories were from the very reasonable perspective that “What’s done is done. Modern Thedas has problems just as the Pre-Veil world did. You need to let go of your regrets and live with the consequences. You can make change here and now in the present.” In pretty much every Solavellan story that tackles this topic of Past v. Present, Lavellan is using her political influence to secure serious change for elves and greater protections for the Dalish especially. These stories are not in favor of preserving the abusive status quo. Rather, Lavellan convinces Solas that his place is at her side teaching the elves the truth of the gods and the past and using his Wisdom to change hearts and minds as he always wished.

There’s also the obvious “Why are you risking the mass deaths of all these people? Is there really no way to take down the Veil safely? Safely-er???”

But for people who want the Veil to be taken down, the arguments can be summarized as the Veil being the status quo, and its continued existence is perpetuating it. The world was meant to be magical; the Veil must be undone to bring the world back to what it normally was. The elves deserve their power and magic back, etc. etc. One could argue that Solas keeping the veil up is him still bound to his past decisions, and worse, folding to the pressure of the status quo and betraying his role of rebeller.

The biggest point of contention for me is that it is not made clear in the slightest what exactly will happen if the Veil is taken down, and while I’m all for the destruction of oppressive systems, when it comes to something like literal MAGIC, I feel like I’m well within my right to be skeptical and apprehensive since Solas is pointedly vague about the specifics. In Trespasser, he says, to paraphrase “..even if this world must die”. The word die is not expounded upon. Die, how? Are we talking the abstract, metaphorical meaning of the word “die” (i.e. the French monarchy ‘died’ and a republic government was born from it), or do we mean a more visceral “die” (i.e. it’s gonna be like a nuclear reactor meltdown and people are going to keel over like they stepped into the Elephant Foot room in Chernobyl because of the sudden tsunami of magic re-entering the world), or do we mean both?

Solavellan fics have taken this to mean what is essentially a global genocide that will destroy most people, and thus the arguments with Solas over the years have been, to sum up a few examples, “You killed a world. You would kill a second world to bring back the first?” and ‘We *are* just as real as the ancient elves were. You need to accept that we are, and accept that the Elvhen empire is gone.” and “We are (elves) are not lesser than our ancestors, we are different. This world is no more broken than the one before. You had all the magic in the world and the elves used it to enslave and kill one another and tranquil the Titans. In this world we have far less access to magic and similar issues with slavery and the Chantry and Tevinter mageocracy. The suffering is just as widespread, but the magnitude is lesser by several degrees (the difference between the devastation and suffering incurred from medieval warfare v. modern warfare).”

The contention of not wanting Solas to tear down the Veil hinges on this ambiguity, and of Solas not seeing the modern elves as real or his people.

Now we can argue: “Solas is lost in the sauce of regret and more than a little blinded from culture shock and nostalgia in his motivation to tear down the veil since half of it stems from his wish to bring back the eminence and power of the ancient elves.’ —-From this we can only surmise what his intentions are here, even. Does he mean elevation and equality (elves will be more powerful but not necessarily treated as superior to the other races—separate but equal), or does he mean ‘the elves were far more powerful and superior to other races in their own way, and we are restoring that’, with the implication that, like elves in other fantasies, they’ll have powers and eminence that could overshadow the other races, and that is simply how nature intended it to be (read: sneaking in some soft social darwinist essentialism))—-‘but yes, the Veil does need to come down because the byproduct will be that elves and mages get more power’.

And beyond that resides a semi magical ecological reason: his wish to see magic and spirits meld with the world once again since that’s how it originally was. The Veil, he states, is unnatural.

What is also confusing is between Trespasser and Veilguard, Solas remains inconsistent on who “the people” are. In a memory he says “the people need me”. Veilguard makes it out like he’s somewhat quietly accepted the modern elves as his people. Probably lesser or somewhat rendered inferior by their supreme distance from the elvhen empire and their lack of magic, but still his responsibility, the living legacy of his mistakes.

I suppose the thorn in my brain is that

The ironic thing is that I’m all for the destruction of the status quo and oppressive systems so long as there’s a clear, cohesive game plan. Fucking go nuts. But when it comes to change in fictional worlds, I get really nervous, probably because most people don’t know how to write or plot out massive societal change in a way that’s believable or well-thought out since fiction can’t ever competently account for the infinite fractals of perspective and experience under such tumultuous events. There is always going to be some glaring oversight since fiction authors are forced to cram a thousand different affected elements into a single narrative, and you will always end up with a story that either leans pro-revolution or anti-revolution, even if it’s a 51%/49% split. Someone is going to be unhappy with the argument made by the text in question. Someone is going to argue that it doesn’t account for X, Y, Z…

Where am I going with this.. Yeah I’m conflicted about the “to tear down the veil or not” because it is so wrapped up in one man’s personal emotional journey. Liberals like to inexplicably twist and weave individual stories into revolution narratives in order to 1) humanize a large abstract political movement but also 2) Use the character as a personification of the movement, with their personality and morality a direct reflection of the morality, and thus validity, of the movement.

It’s an ouroboros of logos and pathos ethos. We can sympathize with Solas because of the cause he champions. By way of literary device, our view of the cause is (deliberately or unconsciously) meant to be influenced by Solas’s personality: the face of the Rebellion and of elf emancipation, a thoughtful, somber, conflicted man with many huge blunders and misjudgments under his belt. He means well, but will his plan work? Perhaps it’s best that everything be left alone. He’s the one with the power to pull it off, but how many of his plans have backfired? This along with the aforementioned ambiguity of what will happen to the world when it’s torn down leaves us with a discordant uncertainty. We want elves to have rights, we want mages to be more free, we want spirits to not be so easily corrupted.

The writers clearly want the Veil to be kept up. It’s “the right thing to do” because tearing down the Veil will mean the “death” of modern Thedas. The fact there isn’t an outright statement of “yeah this is what will happen during this ‘death’” is used as a discouragement, but I feel like that sticking point was written in a day and age when people had fucks left to give about the system, when there was still a healthy fear of unknown risk and a preference for a theoretical scenario where change is slow, regimented, monitor-able, with casualties all but 0.

The game peddling this same fear of change in 2024 is being given to a world that is now more and more commonly scoffing at reluctance to implement systemic change for fear of the unknown. “Who cares, elves deserve rights.”

But is the world Solas is promising actually possible? He has done so many things that have resulted in disastrous, world-changing, life-ruining, unintended consequences. We simply don’t know how modern bodies will react to a sudden global influx of magic to the atmosphere, how many benign spirits will become corrupted when they’re suddenly in direct contact with mortals who are just stewing in their negative emotions that will be undoubtedly heightened by the apocalypse. There are bubbles of the Veil that act all funky and get Veil jumpers killed all the time. Those are simply bubbles.

Varric: People are dying

Solas: That’s what people do

All art is political. It all has a message. Unintended, intended, subliminal, explicit, personal, popular interpretation, weird tinfoil hattery.

The cognitive dissonance, or discomfort I feel is that Solas’s story exemplifies two simultaneous arguments: One, that you need to move on past your regret. You need to live here, now. Life is making mistakes. You may make the largest mistakes, you may work every day to atone for them, but at a certain point you need to accept that this is what life is. You can mourn, you can grieve, you can even still feel pangs of guilt and shame, but you have to be more than that, more than a martyr. Some people are not meant to be the hero. You should focus on putting good into the world now, changing it for the future, not to seek out the past.

That is a beautiful tragic sentiment, especially when the sorrow and guilt are magnified a thousand-fold by the knowledge that your actions have led to the death and suffering of so many in your sincere pursuit of protecting people. When does the sense of responsibility and duty become a spiral of self-destruction? When is the time to stop when all of your efforts make things worse and worse? Solas was a man who took action when action is clearly not in his wheelhouse because the grass is always greener for him. He cannot live with making huge pyrrhic choices because he empathizes so keenly with all sapient life and the tragedy of “what could’ve been”…

But then the second underlying argument posed by the upkeep of the Veil, if you’re Epler: Revolution is bad. Change even for a good cause is bad. Live with the shit rules you have.

idk I’m just getting my thoughts down. I guess I’m still pro- preserve the Veil solely because my personality forbids me from committing to such a choice without knowing the full list of side effects, which Solas (or maybe the writers themselves) haven’t thought out. And again it’s really weird because I don’t have these same reservations about real world social justice and progress. 😶