#gloam-eyed queen

[yournextflame]

Gods and Deities of the Lands Between

My first attempt to sort out different gods and godike beings of Elden Ring. I used Japanese txt archive as English translation sometimes is questionable at best or misses some very important nuances.

外なる神 - outer god 

古き神 - ancient god 

神 - god, vessel for an outer god, an ancient god or the Elden Ring 

神人 - Empyrean (literally “god-person”)

デミゴッド - demigod (written in katakana, doesn't use the kanji for god)

Known outer gods: Formless Mother (Mohgwyn's Sacred Spear), unknown god of Twinbirds (The twinbird is said to be the envoys of the outer god in the description of Kite Shield), outer god of Rot (Scorpion's Stinger)

Known ancient gods: Flame of Frenzy (Fingerprint Stone Shield), ancient god of Rot (Blue Dancer Charm), Fell God (Fire Monk set)

Nowhere in either script is the Greater Will identified as an outer god, same with Ranni’s Dark Moon, Rennala’s Full Moon or Nox’s Black Moon

Known gods: Vessels of the Elden Ring - Marika, Placidusax‘s Sovereign, Malenia as Goddess of Rot  腐敗の女神, Radagon at the end of the game

Marika is the god of current age, age of the Erdtree, and she is the vessel of the Elden Ring

The Golden Order is founded on the principle that Marika is the one true god (c) brother Corhyn

黄金律は、女王マリカを唯一の神とする律です。それなのに…

Placidusax‘s Sovereign

The Dragonlord whose seat lies at the heart of the storm beyond time is said to have been Elden Lord in the age before the Erdtree. Once his god was fled, the lord continued to await its return

時の狭間、嵐の中心に座す竜王は 黄金樹の前史、エルデの王であったという だが神は去り、王は帰還を待ち続けていた  

Yes, Placidusax‘s god wasn’t an outer god 外なる神 or an ancient god 古き神, it was a host of the Elden Ring, the same kind of god 神 as Marika. Most likely it ruled during the age of Crucible.

It seems like all kind of deities need an avatar (Empyrean/god) to manifest their power in the Lands Between.

Known Empyreans: Ranni, Miquella, Malenia, Marika/Radagon, Gloam-Eyed Queen; questionable - Placidusax’s Sovereign must be an Empyrean to become a vessel later, which opens an interesting possibility that not only humans can be chosen as Empyreans

Ranni, Miquella and Malenia belong to the new generation of Empyreans:

Worth noting that Ranni uses phrase “coming age”, considering that Placi’s god was replaced by Marika, it’s very possible that Marika’s age was coming to an end as well, but that’s a topic for a different post.

Marika’s and Radagon’s scarseals have the same description: these seals represent the lifelong duty of those chosen by the gods

Description of Black Flame Ritual: the Gloam-Eyed Queen led the apostles. It is said that she was an Empyrean chosen by the Fingers (questionable: Two or Three?)

(Interesting that all current Empyreans are fathered by Radagon, but nothing suggests that Marika and GEQ were relatives)

Questionable: everything about Fell God

それは、女王マリカが討ち取ったとされる かつて巨人たちが祀った悪神である

Once worshipped by the giants, this evil deity is believed to have been slain by Queen Marika ( One-Eyed Shield)

This description contradicts with the description of Glame of the Fell God

Arghanthy, the chief guardian of the Flame, had kept this incantation a well-kept secret until it was stolen by Adan. The fell god still lurks within the Fire Giants

それは、アダンが盗み出した 監視者の長、アーガンティの秘匿である 悪神は、火の巨人の内に、今も隠れている

it is said that Fell God was slain by Marika, but somehow is still alive. Both descriptions are using Fell God  悪神, but Firemonks Armor uses 火の巨人 Fire Giants, while One-Eyed Shield only mentions Giants  巨人.

Possible solution: the legend about Marika is a lie, Marika defeated a vessel of the Fell God, but not the Feel God himself, Elden Ring lore is a mess

Questionable: Serpent deity Eiglay is written 蛇神, but the Rykard’s Great Serpent is  大蛇. 

Interesting fact: Radahn is called the War God 戦神 in Japanese, but it’s used as a monicker, people simply respect his strength.

Questionable: maybe “ancient god” is just a different way to call outer gods, or it’s a hint that outer gods weren’t always “outer” to the Lands Between

Common misconception №1: the Greater Will is antagonistic to the outer gods

Malenia’s Great Rune is part of the Elden Ring, Order of Rot 腐敗の律 is still an Order 律. The concept of Order 律 is the key point of the Greater Will. The Greater Will is antagonistic to the Flame of Frenzy, which represents Chaos.

Common misconception №2: Ranni’s ending Age of the Stars bans the outer gods or the Greater Will

Description of Memory Stone:

Said to be a fragment of the black moon that once hung above the Eternal City

Description of Moon of Nokstella:

This talisman represents the lost black moon. The moon of Nokstella was the guide of countless stars

Guess what happened with the Nox, despite worship of the black moon and stars

Long ago, the Nox invoked the ire of the Greater Will, and were banished to the shadow realm deep underground

That’s not counting a giant Lake of Rot in Nox ruins. Guys were double-teamed by both Greater Will and outer gods.

Now cometh the age of the stars. A thousand year voyage under the wisdom of the Moon

Ranni minimizes the influence of the Order for 1000 years, she doesn’t remove it entirely and forever like the Flame of Frenzy, nor she does anything with the outer gods (it’s Miquella’s goal to banish them), she simply brings Order of the Chill Night 冷たい夜の律 until the next coming age.

Conclusion: no god rules forever.

[headcanontheshitoutofsoulsborne]

The Gloam-Eyed Queen was Marika’s sister. Both competed to be God of the Lands Between and Vessel to the Elden Ring when they were Empyreans, however their competition overtook their sisterhood. After her defeat at the hands of Black Blade, the Queen sworn that one day, she’ll return with a greater blackflame.

[lichdragon-fortissax]

Theory Time

Isn't it interesting how the godskin apostles appear in a)skinning village, b) on their way to maliketh, and c) around the resting places of the carian kids trio? No, really, what business does the Godslayer Greatsword have being in Radahn's divine tower? How come nobles protect Ranni's body and the Volcano manor? Now I'm not about to say Ranni is the GEQ... but Ranni and the GEQ most likely knew each other in the least and Ranni was probably the one who brought GEQ about.

First of all, clearing a misconception. The night of the black knives actually actually happened long before the shattering. Source: Rogier's dialogue. Second, the Gloam Eyed Queen fiasco only could have happened in between these two events. Marika is said to have plucked Destined Death away and sealed it within Maliketh's blade in the beginning of the Golden Order (In fact this event is said to have marked that beginning). Then at some other point GEQ happened, Maliketh beat her and sealed DD once again (it is emphasized in fact that this second time Maliketh was the one who sealed it and not Marika). These were two separate events, and I personally find it hard to believe Maliketh would lose DD twice, so this puts GEQ after the Black Knives. In addition, since Godwyn is said to be the first ever demigod to die, this means the Godskins had to have been active after his demise.

Next, GEQ, DEQ, and DD are used interchangeably when describing who the Godskins serve. In fact the item descriptions of the Godskin related items imply these are one and the same. And wouldn't it be an interesting coincidence, that on that night, Ranni stole a part of Destined Death in order to fulfill her plot?

From Ranni's quest, we can infer runes are an intrinsic part of one's body. They are something housed within their host's flesh. Ranni and Gideon talk about casting away one's flesh and great rune as if these in fact mean one and the same. So it seems that in the least, it is possible for a rune to have a body. So who is to say that Destined Death on its own was not a Demigod on their own before Marika sealed them away? Turned them, say, "bodiless"?

And finally, there are multiple instances of Enia's dialogue after you release DD in the game files. In comparison to the final game, all of them have an unused line, saying that the Erdtree is being burnt with black flames.

Hope this train of thought makes sense :] There are some points I could add regarding the additional connections between Ranni and Melina in this context but I think this ask has gotten long enough as is.

Ohhh this is really interesting and has got me THINKING

First off; I've never even considered the Gloam-Eyed Queen fiasco to have possibly happened in between the Shattering and the Night of the Black Knives. I'll have to double-check some stuff to see if I missed anything that might hint to a timeline of sorts, but this game is so huge that I wouldn't be surprised if I have. My original assumption was that the Gloam-Eyed Queen was killed before the conquering wars ended, and that Marika aided Ranni in the Night of the Black Knives by stealing Destined Death for her to sever herself from her body. But your point about Ranni casting away her body- which seems to be tied to her Great Rune- kind of shakes up that assumption quite a bit. My brain is whirling rn, neurons are firing, I don't have much to add here but let it be known that I am nodding along furiously

One thing for certain though, I def. think that its very possible for Ranni to have been an associate to the Gloam-Eyed Queen (or was gathering as much info on her as she could) leading up to the Night of the Black Knives, because, like you said, the Godskins appear to be very closely tied to the three Carian royal siblings, of which we know for a fact at least two were in on the plot to steal Death- Ranni and Rykard. I also think you have a good point on the Rune of Death being intrinsically linked with the Gloam-Eyed Queen, which has some killer implications when tied to how Ranni cast away her Great Rune and how Maliketh neutralized her.

Again, not much coherent stuff to say, but I am ALL over this bc its a very interesting theory that I'll def. be mentally chewing on for a bit

[maranull]

Melina is the Gloam-Eyed Queen theory.

I disagree. So far I've only discussed this in replies and such, but I wanted to make a more detailed post about my thoughts (and the bases for my thoughts), so here it goes.

(yes I'm making two lists, I know most of us know all these, I want them in the post as reminders)

What we know about Melina:

She's born at the "...foot of the Erdtree"

She's Marika's daughter (whether through physical means or magical bullshitery can be debated)

She's was, at least some point, involved with the previous integration of the Black Knives. The weapon she uses is the non-imbued version of the Black Knife the assassins use.

She is curious about life and the creatures in the Lands Between: "Your seamster, Boc... I see him crying, from time to time. I think he misses his mother. He wants someone to tell him he's beautiful. Does being born of a mother... Mean one behaves in such a manner?"

Melina's original purpose: "...pass the thorns. My purpose serves to aid in that very act...There I can set the Erdtree aflame. And guide you. Down the path to becoming Elden Lord." Basically to bring an Elden Lord to rule the Lands Between.

Her reason for her sacrifice when she burns the Erdtree: "However ruined this world has become, however mired in torment and despair, life endures. Births continue. There is beauty in that, is there not?"

She sacrifices herself placing her faith in you, in order for life to continue. She seeks a future and the return of the life and death circle: "I have long observed the Lands Between. This world is in dire need of repair... and Death...indiscriminate..." (Note the indiscriminate)

What we know about the Gloam-Eyed Queen and the Godskins (her followers):

Per the Godskin Prayerbook, they seek to kill the gods: "Incantations of the god-slaying black flame..." (x)

"...of the Dusk-Eyed Queen who controlled the Godskin Apostles before her defeat at the hands of Maliketh...." (x)

"The Gloam-Eyed Queen led the apostles. It is said that she was an Empyrean chosen by the Fingers." (x)

"Black flame is weighty. After dealing damage it continues to sap foes' HP for a very short time." (x)

Black flames in general are sapping the life off of their targets (as mentioned above), and even if the caster is the target: "...sacred flasks and other such forms of HP restoration are impaired." (x)

Her followers wear literal skin for clothes.

And they're gloating about their acts: "...this incantation became a trophy of the Nobles' god hunt." (x)

The Gloam-Eyed Queen cradles newborn apostles swaddled in this cloth. Soon they will grow to become the death of the gods. (x) The death the Gloam-Eyed Queen seeks is specifically for the gods. There's no mention of common folk or natural death in any of her descriptions or implied goals.

Her goal seems to be the eradication, or general hunting of the gods (and I'm assuming demi-gods as well) in the Lands Between.

Okay, my thoughts.

This is what I have in support of the theory:

The Gloam-Eyed Queen held Destined Death. Melina promises you Destined Death if you go the FF ending and her closed eye opens revealing a misty, twilight like hue. And there's a connection with the Black Knives that steal the Rune of Death from Maliketh. That's really it..

And here's my argument against it:

(Don't know where to put this but also if Melina was the Queen she wouldn't need you to carry her all the way to the Tree. She could had ordered one of the many apostates she still has roaming around.)

Everything we know about the Gloam-Eyed Queen shows us a ruthless character, obsessed with killing the gods. Her followers are dressed in the most unnerving attire in the game and the death they bring (forced, violent, reveling in their act) is very different of the death Melina wants to give back (death as an natural end to life, for everyone not just gods). Hell, they revel in their work. The Gloam-Eyed Queen raised them to kill gods since they were infants.

What we know of Melina is that she's curious, interested in life and the world and deeply invested in protecting it. Even the death she wants to return, she does so in order for life to flourish, as she sees what the lack of death has brought in the Lands Between.

Melina cares. Deeply and about so many things. About Torrent, about you, about Boc, about the cut-content Mimic that was supposed to join you, about the world and its creatures as a whole.

And y'all are telling me that Melina, this character that cares so, so much that even when you force her to leave you she still refers to you as "...my companion."— Like, at that point the Tarnished is literally on the path to destroy everything she loves and stands for, and she still cares enough about them that refers to them as her companion. And only hunts them down when they truly become the Lord of Frenzied Flame, cause she's not ruthless enough to deal with them at the (valid) assumption that they're batshit insane. She waits and trusts that they'll return to their senses.

You are honestly telling me that this Melina is the ruthless, violent and death obsessed Gloam-Eyed Queen?

No. Just, no.

[buriedknight]

The Gloam-Eyed Queen cradles newborn apostles. Soon they will grow to become the death of the gods.

[abyranss]

I was confused at first when I first learned that the Godslayer Greatsword scaled on dexterity but if Melina really is the Gloam-Eyed Queen (a theory I subscribe to) then it actually makes perfect sense looking at the way she fights.

[catcas22]

Read the Description (it’ll make more sense)

I’m turning my previous pic into a short comic. In order for it to make sense to anyone but me, I’ll need to explain my Gloam Eyed Queen headcanon.

The tldr is that Melina is the GEQ. As Marika’s firstborn, she was the original wielder of the Rune of Death. She eventually rebelled against her mother and the Golden Order, motivated in no small part by Marika’s decision to banish her younger brothers to the sewer.

Of course, we know how the GEQ’s story ends. She loses a fight with Maliketh, losing her Great Rune and possibly her eye in the process.

The comic is going to be an AU, where the Blackflame Rebellion ended a bit differently. More to come!

[roodllle]

Gonna do my list of what I hope the Elden Ring DLC will provide before they do any teasers, not expecting all of this to be included but here's to hoping

Gloam Eyed Queen, the fact that she was an Empyrean is fascinating to me. The fact that not the Greater Will but Marika didn't want death is also fascinating to me. Anyways I hope her design is awesome and would love to see a beautiful ball gown style but made out of Gods’ skins

A Radagon/Marika combo explanation, at least a broad one. Can they at least answer: were the two always one person?

What the fuck is going on in that one big cave with the giant throne with the giant corpse surrounded by hundreds of petrified corpses all being guarded by a Dragonkin Soldier?

Miquella boss fight, while I'm here I'm going to speculate that Miquella isn't as saintly as he comes off as. Just the fact that he was great with charm magic and that the Albinaurics weren't allowed into the Haligtree is really weird to me. Or maybe they're going to do the 20th 'was once a good man now corrupted by *spins wheel* blood'.

Speaking of Miquella, do him and Malenia have shades? Or is it that Malenia devoted so much of herself to her brother that she just became a stand-in?

Godwyn, his design is so cool, I want to see that thing in action.

Unless we've already seen her corpse, I wonder if we'll meet Boc's mom or I should rather say, the Demi Humans' Mother.

There’s probably some stuff I’m not thinking of like...everything to do with Glintstone Sorcery, that stuff’s kind of a big deal lore wise.

And the most likely to not be in the dlc: more content of what the demigods were like before the shattering. At least in hidden lore sentences.

Update: omg what's up with Melina, she has to be a child of Marika but???

[space-blue]

Food for thought...

Maliketh's eyes are the bueish-purple we see in both Blaidd and the beast eye he gives the Tarnished as Gurranq. Personal beliefs are leading me to think he granted his own eyes to the Tarnished (us) and possibly D - since D already knows Gurranq and weeds deathroot, same as the Tarnished we play as. Maliketh may have very well rendered himself blind for the sake of sating his hunger. If that much is true, this could mean that he was so desperate and hungry, he gave up his own eyes as a last resort to the two remaining hunters that give a damn about serving him.

Some semblance of proof would be the beast eye's item description.

-

Claw-marked stone eye received from Gurranq, Beast Clergyman.

It is said to tremble when near Deathroot.

The murky violet iris writhes as if alive.

"I am not sated... Feed me more...Death..."

-

This is otherwise pure speculation/headcanon...but what if...?

Oooh that's a great theory! For an angsty story oooh...

I actually agree it's likely his eyes are purple like Blaidd, but I'm not sure about the stone eye. Narratively speaking, I love the idea, especially because it fits a pattern of inexplicable madness. Mal is powerful, Mal has OP minions. Why isn't he using them? Why isn't he fetching death himself? Why use D, or us, he has the eye himself, he could go get it!

The hunger being crippling and affecting him to the point it's easier/more logical to rip out his eyes than to go out himself would definitely fit that insanity.

I'm reluctant to accept it as a "likely canon" explanation though, if only because I don't think his lack of eyes as a model that was never intended to be shown—ever—can be taken to mean anything about the character.

I'm going to use Miquella to further my proof. By clipping inside his egg, you also see that surprise, he has no eyes :

Yes, sorry for the psychic damage.

I think those are hasty models, a compromise between texturing something enough knowing the fans will be clipping all over the place within the month, but not actually losing time hyper rendering everything.

That, but there is also the fact the eye is stone. Strange that it would have calcified, right? Some fans have pointed out the likelihood that it actually belongs to the Gloam-Eyed Queen (also known as Dusk Eyed Queen), the leader of the Godskin apostles, an Empyrean herself, who used to wield Destined Death and was defeated by Maliketh!

Godslayer's Greatsword Sacred sword of the Dusk-Eyed Queen who controlled the Godskin Apostles before her defeat at the hands of Maliketh. The black flames wielded by the apostles are channeled from this sword.

Gloam means twilight/dusk, which is when the sky bleeds from blue to purple to black and uhoh :

So, could it be more of a war trophy? The eye he took from the Gloam-Eyed Queen? And then, there's the debate that the Gloam Eyed Queen (or her daughter) is none other than Melina, who [spoilers!!] reveals her closed eye after the Flame of Frenzy ending.

The similarities are pretty glaring, although, yes, her eye would have restored itself, so still plenty of questions. Some fans stipulate the striation on the stone eye even match the tattoos on her face :

Original reddit post.

Since the GEQ was the wielder of Destined Death before Maliketh, it makes sense that her eye would have a connection to that, whether she's fully dead (most likely tbh?) or is in fact Melina (if she's a spirit then maybe she can just have whatever eyes she wants heh).

I think Melina being the GEQ's daughter is what would make the most sense, especially considering she has the moveset of the black knives assassins and might have been involved in Ranni's plot. But I'm a bit out of my depth there.

I feel like Maliketh giving you his own fossilized eyes or his old war trophies are both great ways to go about a story and both speak of desperation, just of a different kind. I just don't feed like we can judge his story based on the inner layers of the model that are not made to be seen and are there for technical reasons.

Because you know, otherwise we'll have to ask ourselves if he has no hair under his armour because he shaves :

Looool sorry I can't resist. The lack of hair cards on his torso makes sense so it doesn't clip but the naked look is so stupid silly _(:з」∠)_

[mindormin]

daily schizo thought: Sekiro-like Elden Ring sequel where you play as Melina and hunt down the Lord of Frenzied Flame and she regains her status as the Gloam Eyed Queen by regaining her sword and followers etc etc

[esspurrr]

marika voice yipee my loyal shadow has returned from his atrocities :)

[yournextflame]

Do you think the Gloam-Eye is more so a acquired characteristic akin to a curse mark rather than specific to one individual? The GEQ was the harborer of Destined Death in the form of the Blackflame and was most easily identified by her peculiar eye color. Gurranq, who is eyeless based on his model, gives us one his eyes that fester when death is near, and it too has the gloam hue. Melina, once she obtains DD, has the hue in her eyes. So… is that crazy to assume?

Before your ask I had a post in my draft about Melina where I suggested that her "gloam" eye isn't a direct connection to Gloam-Eyed Queen, but a symbolic mark. I have two theories about gloam eyes, let's talk about them.

As you mentioned, violet eyes is a common trait of Empyrean Shadows. But there is another beast with very bright violet eyes in game, and she is a queen too. I'm talking about demi-human queen. I think there is non-zero possibility that Gloam-Eyed Queen herself was a demi-human or a beastman. Godskins themselves aren't exactly humans, description of the Godskin Nobles set says that they are bearing inhuman physiology. Assuming that Placidusax's god was a dragon, maybe not only humans can be chosen as Empyreans? However, it doesn't explain Melina's eye.

Here comes my second theory. I personally believe that gloam eye might be a common trait of certain Empyreans. We have never seen Marika/Radagon's and Miquella's eyes, Malenia's eyes are rotted and Ranni is a doll, however, her spirit is attached to the doll via her eye. Maybe a strong connection to the spirit world is what makes Empyreans so special. It's a reference to Norse mythology, where Odin sacrificed his eye to gain greater wisdom. Speaking of which, it's possible that outer gods don't have a corporeal flesh and they are inhabiting the spirit world, which is why they need vessels. There are four boss fights, where floor is covered in water, a manifestation of spirit realm, - Rennala's second phase, Royal Ancestor Spirit, Fortisaxx and Elden Beast. While no one of them is directly tied to the known outer gods, I've found Elden Beast's case is interesting due to the duality between Elden Ring and Elden Beast (they are the same thing according to the Elden Stars description). I suggest that Elden Ring is a physical form of the Order, while Elden Beast is a spirit of it.

Considering that Elden Ring's spirit is Elden Beast, which design represents amalgamation of various different species - it has human arms, fins, wings, roots, what can we say about spiritual forms of the outer gods? (my logic is that each outer god has assigned rune, while Elden Beast is all of them) I believe that Rot is an insect, which is supported by Malenia's butterfly theme and insectoid design of Kindred of Rot. Death probably looks like a bird (Deathbirds, Twinbird), Formless mother is, well, something else.

[for futher support that outer gods are inhabiting spirit realm there is a description of Fortisaxx remembrance where it is said that he was fighting Death in Godwyn's dream] So, I got carried with an answer, but here comes the conclusion - Melina is Empyrean. No one knows that she is the one because she was spawned from Marika/Radagon after their imprisonment. Unlike M-twins, who were made in, let's call it "traditional way", she is a direct offshoot of her merged parents and... the fragment of Rune of Death in Marika's body. From the moment of her creation she is bearing the outer god of Death, this is why her gloam eye is covered by the mark in the shape of the crowfoot. In other words, she isn't directly related to GEQ, but they are both Empyreans posessed by Death.

Added: I know it's a weird idea, but looking how humans are capable of creation of new runes and laws associated with them that we are obtaining after their death, I wonder if spirits of Goldmask, Dung Eater and Fia are becoming outer gods on the other side.

[headcanontheshitoutofsoulsborne]

The Gloam-Eyed Queen loved apples.

[lichdragon-fortissax]

Empyreans being fae by nature is actually so fucking interesting to me though, like...imagine if you were born a hollow vessel made to fuse with a god so that you can become one yourself, and pretty much any other Empyrean who doesn't submit to you is a potential rival who you may have to kill to ascend to full godhood. That would make for a really fucked up and weird person I think

[maranull]

I know who the Gloam-Eyed Queen is.

I have proof and reasoning:

Behold!

A Gloam-Eyed Queen:

Here's my very smart reasoning that I realized with my impeccable observation skills:

His coat is grey. One might even say, gloam-y.

[orinthered]

elden ring lore makes me feel like a pathetic freak

anyways working theory for whatever the fuck melina is: melina sought out the gloam eyed queen after the tarnished was blessed by the frenzied flame in order to become corporeal (and also, able to wield death without needing the rune of death)

melina was either born to be kindling for the crucible very early in marika’s queenhood, or was killed by the frenzied flame. she IS dead/a spirit by the time we meet her as tarnished, given that she can’t move by herself outside of the area where she was born (inside the erdtree). (also torrent is also a spirit, and has the same burn marks that melina has).

if melina IS the gloam-eyed queen, the burn marks on her body could possibly be from blackflame, or from the fire on maliketh’s blade when he and marika “defeated” her?

but yeah um my Main thoughts surrounding melina is just that she’s either the vessel for the gloam-eyed queen, or was blessed by the gloam-eyed queen, giving her the power to properly kill the tarnished.