#fucking cam and pal have them in nona

[xkeepitupx]

The most unrealistic part of the locked tomb series isn't the necromancy aspect or the teenager beating the grown adults in a wizards rat race: it's the single pair of sunglasses that never get lost or broken.

[whimsicallywiddershins]

One of the saddest things to me is that Alecto is described as this horrible angry monster by the Lyctors. Every single lyctor is terrified of her, enough that Gideons eyes freaked them the fuck out before they realized she wasn't Alecto. And she is. She is so very angry and monstrous.

Nona is kind. She is cheerful and thoughtful and gloriously kind. Pyrrha, Camilla, Palamedes and Corona can't help but to love her. She has friends and she loves people for you they are and is just wonderful.

Nona is Alecto without the memories of what John did to her. Alecto is Nona without the kindness of Pyrrha, Cam and Pal.

Nona is what Alecto could have been. What Alecto was, before everything.

[fantasy-mixtapes]

The thing that really gets me about the start of Nona the Ninth is how - even though she didn’t end up being either one of them - Cam, Pal, and Pyrrha couldn’t figure out whether she was Harrow or Gideon because they knew how absolutely fucked up their childhoods must of been.

They knew that if they took away all of the horrible things that Gideon and Harrow went through they would be almost unrecognizable as people - how much of their personalities were shaped by what they were trained to do, or how they resented their training. Making them wonder that maybe if things were different Harrow or Gideon could have been the happy and loving little girl Nona is.

Could you imagine having the chance to reparent your friend, giving them the things you think they deserve, that they never got, and realizing they are nothing like the friend you knew?

And then realizing that either way, this must be better.

[inkdragon1900]

The way each pov in the locked tomb series is from the view point of an unreliable narrator drives me crazy in the best way.

Gideon is an unreliable narrator because it’s so dependent on her first impression of a person. For instance Ianthe, Coronabeth, Palamedes and Camilla compared to everything we learn later. Even her viewing of Harrowhark feels so jarring compared to Harrow’s view of herself in htn. She also knows very little about necromancy so everything feels less like science and more like something out of her magazines.

Then we have Harrow. Who literally has gaslit herself and trying damn hard to gaslight the audience that the last book never happened. Everything is a lot less black and white compared to GTN but her shades of grey still feel muddy. her depression seeps through every interaction she has that by the time it switches back to Gideon’s pov I literally felt like I had whiplash.

in NTN we have the John chapters and Nona.

Nona for her part seems like she see’s everything in black and white but as we see her mentally mature instead of seeing just shades of grey she see’s everything in vivid color. She loves everyone the good and the bad. She’s an unreliable narrator in the sense that because she loves Cam, Pal, Phyrra and Corona in a black and white fashion in the beginning she does not acknowledge their flaws in their choices. It’s only when she’s emotionally matured that she can see everyone she loves for the three dimensional people they are.

John for his part is so unwilling to forgive that we see that it doesn’t stop at B.O.E or the trillionares it extends to the unwillingness to forgive himself for a situation that I genuinely think no one could have handled. He refuses to look at himself for what he is and what he was in that moment, a scared man with to much power. (Unlike the Lyctors who were quite on quote “playing with the reflection of stars in a puddle and thinking it’s space.” He’s thrown into space and rapid fire has to learn how to tread or die drowning.) He lies because he doesn’t want to appear insane or weak or horrible not realizing that by doing that he’s removing the sympathetic parts of himself. Like Mercy and Augustine said they most likely would have forgiven him if he had just told them he fucked up. His point of view is so similar to Gideons black and white thinking that it works so well contrasted with Nona’s pov.

I can’t freaking wait for Alecto

[theriverbeyond]

some meandering thoughts on Lyctoral reproduction, contraception, and why I DON'T think Pyrrha hit it raw

this was originally a reblog of another post but it became SO LONG i am just posting it by itself. anyway cracks knuckles:

I think from a reproductive health standpoint the Lyctors are, despite having been exposed to extreme pre-ressurection levels of radiation, not sterile per say, but homeostatically fixed at the point of ascension with any changes made to themselves after that being a concious theorem. See: Cytherea is frozen as sick as she was when she ascended, but when she wanted to fight she could walk around fine, and Harrow when cold, can pad her fat reserves. So they CAN change their bodies, but it's still a Thing They Have To Do vs. a truly autonomous bolidy process.

Also, we know Lyctoral Healing is a thing dependant on nerve fibers -- why a severed limb (Nona/Gideon-in-Harrow aside) is not supposed to automatically regrow (but can be intentionally regrown, with thought and effort), and why in order to imbue Ianthe's bone arm with regenerative power Harrow had to make sure it was properly innervated

(The reason I believe they are not inherently sterile despite having been exposed to massive amounts of radiation is simply because that radiation does not discriminate and would have destroyed the rest of their physical bodies as well. basically, I think any radiation induced infertility would have been fixed in the Ressurection Process, same as the radiation induced. death.)

At the same time, the biological changes a human body must undergo to fertilize an egg and then bring a pregnancy to term are many (on a physical and physiologic level) and all must happen in the correct sequence at the correct time. the adult unaltered, non-Lyctoral body (most of the time) naturally knows how to follow this path, but in order for a Lyctoral Body to bring a pregnancy to term all those minute changes would have to be done manually, lest the Lyctoral Body revert to its homeostatically frozen state.

Therefore, my thoughts are: a Lyctor wouldn't really be able to become pregnant on accident to begin with, much less carry a pregnancy to term unwillingly. Every minute step or shift or change in hormone levels, uterine stretch, etc would have to be manually preformed and then monitored 24/7 which just seems incredibly exausting if not annoying. Then, of course, you have the reality that the Lyctor is going to outlive their child by thousands of years if not forever, and after the catastrophic grief they all carry for their cavaliers I cannot imagine any of them willingly putting themselves in that situation.

why, then, did Pyrrha think Gideon was her child?

WELL! the above theoretical process is specific to a Lyctor becoming pregnant, either from Lyctor or non-Lyctor. For Pyrrha/G1deon, the person who may have become pregnant from their encounters was WAKE, a (as far as we know) physiologically normal human, whose body would be able to like. in the presense of viable sperm, get pregnant the usual way without need for necromantic initiation and maintenence. Not only that, but at the time, Wake could NOT have been taking any sort of continuous contraceptive, as the planning/execution/impregnation of Dios Apate Major/Project Bomb was happening at the same time as Wake was fucking Pyrrha and G1deon. Like I know Mercy gave her the dolls but like Wake was able to turkey baster herself pretty quickly after their failure which means there was an open window of time where Wake was fucking PyrrhaG1deon and definitely fertile.

I could see G1deon as being able to tie off his ductus deferens, or whatever, while he is having sex to prevent physical ejaculation but as we know from Gideon-in-Harrow and Pyrrha-in-G1deon and Cam-when-Pal-Was-Inside, the cavalier's soul cannot preform necromancy whilst in the driver's seat. SO, following that, Pyrrha would be unable to necromantically prevent herself from ejaculating whilst doing the deed.

and finally, we have come to the part where I explain why I do NOT believe Pyrrha was having unprotected sex. as funny it is to imagine them all hitting it raw with a huge breeding kink, given Pyrrha and not to mention WAKE'S general competency (and also like if Wake is trying to get pregnant with the key to the Emperor's Tomb, being already pregnant would have been really inconvinient!!! considering again that the impregnation of ProjectBomb happened at the same time as she was fucking PyrrhaG1deon, Wake HAS to have been taking steps to prevent an unwanted, competing pregnancy), I have to take the controversial position that the condom broke.

Imagine you are a soul fragment, 10,000 years old, and you are betraying your God and Emperor AND your other half, by fucking a rebel comander (using your other half's body) while both of them are unaware. and then the condom breaks. wyd

[n1ghtwr1ter]

At the end of my latest TLT reread and it’s been physically painful attempting to read the last 40+ pages of Nona. Like, the short shrift that Gideon/Kiriona gets given by the people in the story…the theoretical good guys who honestly only see her as a thing, as a means to an end with an inconvenient dead soul attached to it… It makes me want to rip my own heart out of my chest.

Nobody has cared about Gideon her whole life. Most people, in fact, if they remembered about her at all, went out of their way to tell her how much they wished she didn’t exist. In the final chapters of Gideon, she finally gets the thing she’s been desperate for her whole life: somebody telling her that they need her, they care that she exists, and they badly want her to go on doing it. This allows her to make peace with the prospect that at the ripe old age of 18, she needs to die so that that person can go on living and living and living, using the castrated remnants of her soul as fuel to do so. Not a great way to go, but at least Gideon would get to be useful to somebody, would get to be remembered for something.

And then she wakes up in the wrong body, and finds out that her sacrifice - her attempt to be useful in the most selfless way possible, in that her self will no longer exist - has been rejected. And not only that, but the person she tried to give herself to - the one who was supposed to care about her - went to extreme lengths to make completely sure that she no longer remembered about Gideon.

She literally cut Gideon out of her brain.

And now, drifting along in the worst sort of half life where she’s inhabiting her body but it’s no longer really hers, in very obvious fashion - there’s holes in it, her heart is missing, and it’s got her shitty father’s handprints all over it (not even touching how much of a violation that is), indelibly - she finally meets back up with the small group of people who could theoretically be relied upon to be glad to see her again.

But then the one who was supposed to care about her most tries to kiss her (massively OOC for Harrow), and turns out to not even be there - it’s some weird baby inhabiting her body, and doing a really shit job of it too. The rest of them won’t stop talking about how they need her to break into the Tomb - as if she was just another key, same as the ones they worked together to acquire in Canaan House, just bigger and more inconvenient - and/or how they both fucked and killed her mom, who also (surprise, surprise) wished that Gideon had never existed, but saw her as a thing that needed to be done for the good of the mission.

Ultimately, they all make it abundantly clear - Palamedes, Camilla, Pyrrha, and especially Nona, all these people who are supposed to be kind and good and right - that they would prefer she wasn’t there. That it just be her body, with no Gideon attached - at least not Gideon the way she is now, broken and rejected and miserable. They would all far have preferred that she not have her own inconvenient thoughts and feelings and desires and impulses - that she just be inanimate and let the important people, the grown ups, get things done.

They wish she didn’t exist. Same as everybody else in her life, save one, and now she’s left wondering whether Harrow really meant it at all. Because if she did, she wouldn’t have left Gideon to Kiriona’s fate.

And honestly? Really, truly? I know everybody in the fandom loves Pal and Cam and Nona and Pyrrha, but in the end I couldn’t give less of a shit about them. They are fucking side characters, and as intriguing as Nona has been from a worldbuilding standpoint, I ultimately resent having been forced to read 400+ pages of filler bullshit about fucking side characters. I am a butch, and I’m here for my sarcastic, loving, angry, vulnerable, forgiving, and yes, inconvenient sword butch. I’m here for Gideon. But Gideon has been fridged for the last two books of the series in which she is supposed to be a, if not the, main character.

And it feels like almost nobody else in the fandom feels the same way, which, fine. I’m used to that. I’m also used to being told I’m projecting; and I’m used to being told that I’m inconvenient too, in my thoughts and my opinions and the mere fact of my existence. I spent the first eighteen years of my life being told I was inconvenient. Yet another point of overidentification with Gideon.

But in case anybody still thinks that Nona proves that Gideon was an asshole all along, think about all of the above. Think about how it would make you feel to come back from not just death but from the erasure of your existence, something you chose in order to save the life of someone you loved, and be told that you’re inconvenient. Think about how you’d feel if you’d been told all your life that it would be better for everyone if you didn’t exist. And then tell me that Kiriona isn’t in the right and that I should give a rat’s ass what happens to literally anybody else.

It’s Kiriona Hours up in this House, butches. We’ve spent long enough caring about people who would prefer we weren’t around. For once in our entire lives we were told we were important; we were told we mattered; we were told we were the main character. We were going to, if not get the girl and save the world, at least get to do something real, something important, something like being the hero.

But that’s over now; we’re back to being wrong and bad and inconvenient thanks to the simple fact of our existence. So it’s time to embrace it. Let’s be a little shit. Let’s be kind of a dick. Let’s have our own agenda, let’s play our cards close to our heartless chest, let’s allow our circle of empathy to contract to ourselves and maybe one more person. That’s where I’m at right now. And I don’t see that changing anytime soon.

[abigail-pent]

Thoughts on HTN Act Four on my ??th reread:

- Harrow says "You cannot build in the River. It is a dimension of perpetual flux. Defined space is nonsense here. You might as well try to wall off Time with bricks and mortar." Which hits VERY DIFFERENT after Nona when we physically see a Tower rising from the River - this is way more like bricks and mortar than Pal's bubble even! IS THIS A CHEEKY LITTLE FORESHADOW OF WHAT THE TOWER IS???

- I think it's so fucking funny that Harrow tells her lobotomized self to silence Judith, like she knew Judith was going to speak her inconvenient mind no matter what

- There are 24 total letters. One for Harrow, one for Ianthe, one for Ianthe to give to Gideon Nav if met, one for Cam, one in case Harrow met Judith, one in case Harrow met Corona .... so like most of the letters went unopened. What happened to them? They went into the River but did anyone pick them up?

- Teacher says: "When the work was done, when I was finished and so were they, and the new Lyctors found out the price, they bade him kill the saltwater creature before she could do them harm." This still makes no sense.

We know (from Chapter 37) that "the price" is one of a set of John's lies - that the RBs would chase them and destroy them for the indelible sin of Lyctorhood. But that only explains why they thought Alecto would harm them if they knew Alecto was an RB (truth), and they thought RBs hunt Lyctors (lie). Throughout HTN, Augustine and Mercy both appear to know a lot more about John's motives than John tells Harrow, but we don't actually know if they learned this, or the history of the ten billion, from John or from BoE. When they had Alecto locked into the Tomb, they certainly didn't know that Alecto is John's cavalier, or else the big reveal about Alecto's and John's eyes would not have been such a big deal ten thousand years later. What did John tell them at the time? "Oh hey RBs kill Lyctors and we've been hanging out with one this whole time?" I don't think so! Did they just randomly guess there was an RB in their midst? Seems unlikely! So why did they suddenly turn on Alecto?

- When Augustine says Harrow's call sign is H, just H - is that him taking pity on her (knowing what her cavalier's name should be and choosing not to use the initial G), or him condescending to her because she is not a complete Lyctor?

- When Alecto learns that Varun is coming and she's astonished that it's happening... this is very interesting. She shouldn't be surprised if she already knows the RBs are chasing her and trying to get to her, but her astonishment makes it seem like she doesn't actually know this.

- the way Harrow prays that Ianthe isn't the traitor.... hmmmmmmm

- Cytherea tried to bodily go to the surface of an RB and failed, having gone "mad for weeks"

- Cyrus died before Ulysses and Cassiopeia. When he drove the corpus into a black hole, Ulysses drove the brain through the stoma and Cassy dropped the body into the River alongside the brain; which means Cyrus was the first to go. (Though obviously Cassy's death was faked.)

- The way Mercy describes the RBs: #2 sounds like Mercury (quicksilver), #6 sounds like Uranus (sphincters), #4 sounds like Venus (a humanoid creature with a beautiful face) #1 sounds like ... I don't know, maybe Mars (looked to Mercy like a great and incoherent machine, with a great tail and a thousand broken pillars on its back; looked to Cassy like a mechanical monster with swords for wings and great horns, tesselated over with graves; both of these say "war machine" to me), #8 sounds like either Jupiter or Neptune (a giant head, finned like a fish, teeth protruding from its own skull - fish suggests ocean/Neptune; red with a big green eye - eye suggests Jupiter), #7 looks like Neptune because it's blue but I think it's actually Saturn (who is classed as a Varunian god, who ate his children, and of course we know from NTN that #7 is named Varun the Eater), whatever number Alecto is is Earth, and that leaves Pluto and either Jupiter or Neptune unnumbered and undescribed. I'd guess Alecto is #9, which leaves #3 and #5.

- Augustine says Mercy's House "suckles at the stoma like a damned teat." We know the Second House drains thanergy to turn it into thalergy and the Eighth House is the opposite of the Second in that way; so it drains - or sucks - thalergy. Which is hella fucking curious because it suggests that the power on the other side of the stoma may actually be **thalergy**. But when you think about it, that actually starts to make sense. John says that the other side of the stoma is "a genuinely chaotic space," "a portal to the place I cannot touch, somewhere I don't fully comprehend, where my power and my authority are utterly meaningless," and that "no ghosts venture deeper than the bathyrhoic layer." What could be more chaotic than a fount of pure life energy - afterlife energy, even? What could take the wind out of John's sails more, or contradict his power more, than a source of actual, eternal life? We know from GTN that death has to connect to life, and life to death; death can't be linked up to death like that, the opposites call to one another. And we know for certain that the force on the other side of the stoma calls to John, who is a great conduit of thanergy, and the Resurrection Beasts, who are massive, planet sized pools of thanergy. I think the stoma opens for them because they're Big Thanergy and the stoma is the gate to Big Thalergy.

Also: we don't actually know that no ghosts get all the way down to the bottom of the River except if they're like really evil, which is what John posits. We know we do not see ghosts at the bottom of the River. It doesn't follow that ghosts just choose not to go there. This fact could also be explained if the Big Thalergy on the other side of the stoma is pulling all the nearby ghosts through. Classic causal inference fail - John has the direction of the causal relationship backwards.

- John can't project his soul into the River and enter the "senseless state" because then Alecto would come to the fore and take over his body.

- Harrowhark has never had a father figure - or a figure who wanted to be her father - except he tried to kill her.

- Harrow saying she's not a person because she's a chimera or a war crime... ohh... 😭😭😭

- John says he designed the Tomb *with* Anastasia and never wanted it opened from either end, yet at the end of NTN we find Anastasia's body in there with Alecto... so either the Tomb was always openable by Anastasia or John knew she would die in there.

[sofipitch]

One thing that was really fun about Nona was it's commitment to unreliable narration as seen through a child. Nona is perceptive and clues in on a lot more than others want her to know, yet there are hints of shit going on that Nona doesn't really get. Like some of it becomes plot relevant so you do get answers but I'm talking about the stuff we don't get to see again, like what all Camilla and Palamedes' night missions entailed. If they are trying to save necromancers, did they? And where would they put the escapees? I still wonder why Pyrrha had the job she did and if that was also something important. The fact that Pyrrha was maybe fucking Cam and Pal off screen. Same with a lot of details about New Rho, why was the building Nona lived in so bad, why shouldn't you leave the house without a jacket and mask, etc etc. New Rho itself is a bleak wasteland where you can't buy a lot of food but who cares bc Nona doesn't like most food anyways. I'm OBSESSED with the way we find out BOE is burning necromancers alive is through children who are attending public executions, debating if they helped kill someone the same way you might debate if someone actually did a cartwheel. These are all things Nona takes for granted, as long as her loved ones are safe, they don't register as noteworthy, that's just how things are, right? I have so many questions but Nona can answer none of them but she can tell me if Noodle was a good boy today

[lemon-natalia]

Nona the Ninth Reaction - Chapter 25

Pyrrha really is committed to mentioning that she found Gideon’s mother attractive in every conversation that she has with her, i admire the dedication 

haha what the fuck is this. Kiriona Gaia Her Divine Highness

MUMFUCKER PRIME ngl the bad jokes are mostly the only reason i’m pretty sure this is actually Gideon and not some doppelganger. idk whether its all the trauma she’s built up over the last two books or just having to be in the general proximity of Ianthe and John for an extended period of time, but something is up with this gal

'Judith Deuteros for some reason’ i relate to this on a fundamental level given i genuinely didn’t realise that Judith was here until this moment

as much as it pains me that two of my favourite characters immediately Do Not Vibe with eachother, Gid being a dick to Nona makes sense given Nona is currently occupying the body of the person Gideon cares the most about in the world, who is themselves god-only-knows-where rn. props to Tamsyn Muir for making the bold creative choice to have her protagonists all just fucking loathe each other at some point

okay there is no way in hell that Gideon actually wants to go back to the ninth for nostalgia. unless it's nostalgia for dunking on Crux

‘it was not a very friendly smile [...] there was something a little bit hungry about it’ haha what the fuck. really said let’s dial up the ‘came back wrong’ trope to eleven here. what in the Jason Todd is this

well miss ‘I am the Emperor’s construct’ has come a long way since ‘Go to hell Pops’, this was NOT what i meant when i said i wanted more of Gideon and John interacting this book 😭😭

tamsyn muir really said ‘oh you want Gideon back? i’m going to give you what you want in the most painful way possible’ huh. this is uh somehow worse than her dying actually :)

Gideon actually knowing anything about necromancy is the most disturbing part of all of this. what happened Gid i thought you and me were on a team of this ‘necromancy is confusing as all hell’ thing. can’t believe you’d betray me like this smh

also given we last saw Gid finding out she was born as a ‘bomb’ to open the tomb, and how much she hated everything about the Ninth other than Harrow, i am very concerned about why she suddenly wants to come with to open the Tomb

the saddest girl in the whole world is Gideon??? GIDEON?? the presence of Noodle in this book lulled me into a false sense of security so that i forgot just how much this series loves breaking my heart over and over again 

i know everyone already knows from the broadcast (and possibly before if Pyrrha told them) but i do wonder how Corona, and Pal & Cam etc. reacted to finding out Gideon was God’s daughter. imagine having to deal with the revelation that the deity you are becoming increasingly disillusioned with has a kid that spent much of the time you knew her making terrible sex jokes

[notedchampagne]

Bro the 6th familial relationships fuck me up so much like the weird Juno and Pal more of a mentor than a mother vibes? And it seems like from Dr Sex that her and Pal's dad are either divorced or just straight up had nothing to do with each other until the genomics department decided they should have a child together?? Like imagine you're a ruthless academic career-woman and one day you get an email from the government like 'congrats! You're a mother!' And they hand you a fresh vat baby that is half you and half your co-worker that you talked to one time at the Christmas party like??? I don't think I would have the most healthy relationship with that child either tbh

And Cam! Earlier in Nona when Pal and Pyrrha are talking about going to the park it is only Kiki that he mentions she might want to save, no mention that apparently both her parents are there too? Her entire family is on the line here. Then she doesn't want her dads to see the Paul transformation because they "wouldn't understand"? You just know there's some long running disagreement there with how far she's yoking herself in with Pal. Do you think they secretly resent him? Did this cause a rift in their family? And what did the conversation look like before or after the transformation? Did Cam tell them she was about to die? Or did they turn away for five seconds and she finally killed herself for her obsessions behind their back? Who broke the news to them? (Who is going to break the news to Pal's dad?) The whole thing just makes me insane!!!!

Also apparently there is some incredible nepotism going on in the 6th oversight body here (or maybe everything is nepotism on the 6th lol)

YOU GET ME i love the 6th house so so much the way the house functions both as a united family w their genetics & a university with the academic quibbling is so fun to me- the sixths weakness was described as "A sprawling organization of erratic loners, the Sixth are chaotic by nature and terrible at collective action." which is 1) hilarious. palamedes is the peoples marxist princess 2) just generally fascinating as a whole. if we take that at face value and consider the 6th house as populated by genius loner nerds, it actually makes sense that they prioritize sending out attractive people to diversify the gene pool - with reference to your statement: dr sex provided a nice handful of evidence that while palamedes and juno have a formal dynamic, theyre affectionate enough that they seem close (at most, to the extent of some gay kid and their favorite english teacher) but seeing juno like a distant mentor is most likely right

taking on more quotes from dr sex, i think its most likely that the Sixth house encourages child bearing / raising through subsidies and an extended work leave of sorts:

Palamedes said, “Enjoying parenting. Enjoying the parenting buyout, I should say. He’s only doing dissertation supervision—and half a year of Immediate History, of course—but he’s got his own projects on the go.”

alexandrites and nireids might be required to go offworld to flirt and have children (i think i came across another post floating somewhere noticing kiki and cam were half-sisters, implying their parent was one of the mentioned) but for residents staying in the sixth house, they probably have about 3-7 other people they could possibly produce children with outside of consanguinity. although forcing them to have children by way of vat birth etc etc is entirely possible in Hell Empire a lot of them probably gave in just for a few years of parental & academic benefits.

one last point - sixth house children canonically live in a dormitory! so if you consider a professor going on paid leave to raise children while doing their own projects for about 7-9 years, then going back to work while their children are sent to a dorm to do nothing but study and train with other peers their age, it falls together so perfectly bro. it makes so much sense. of course pal and cam are nice to their parents but rarely ever close - they were most likely raised and taught communally! god i love worldbuilding

[mayasaura]

One of my biggest hopes for Alecto is that Harrow has a minute of going full Carrie revenge insane upon finding out what they did to Gideon’s body. Like. Throughout Canaan House and especially in the AUs, we get the sense of Harrow having a deep desire to protect Gideon’s body even if it is in her own solitary goth nun way. She wants Gideon to put more consideration into the danger of avulsion before agreeing. She tells her afterward not to price her life so cheaply. She makes Cam and Pal check on her multiple times. She leaves her bread in a drawer. She’s fully on board to throw Camilla towards possible death in the interest of keeping Gideon safe. And then when she finally sees her in the coffee AU her description is just so soft and loving even when she’s about to pass out because she saw her arms, and continues that way until the end of the book. When Ianthe thinks it’s Harrow in Nona she’s surprised she isn’t violently storming the compound to recover Gideon’s body. Anyway she should find out how BOE and Jod treated her body and go on a tiny insane revenge spree. As a treat.

You are SO fucking right. Deep down inside Harrow is that one gif of the girl holding puppies and crying because she can't protect them, only the puppies are a butch lesbian determined to throw herself into a meat grinder.

I think Harrow might be a little grateful for the unbreakable bones and indestructable skin part of Jod's deal re: Gideon—she may have done that herself in Canaan House, if she'd known how—but the rest of it? The gaping wounds, the leaving her dead? Kill Bill sirens. She has been trying so hard to protect and preserve Gideon, to give Gideon a life, and when Gideon's own father has the chance to restore her he just slaps her together with crazy glue and calls it fine? That is not fine.

If she ever finds out how Gideon's corpse was being treated while her murderer lay in state on a bed of flowers... Man, I would not want to be in the room where that happened.

It would be so cathartic to see her tear into John over his part of it. Gideon already went apeshit on him for how he treated Harrow, so it's only fair Harrow gets to have her go. It's equality!! If We Suffer could somehow be there to be held accountable, too, so much the better.

And after that, what I really really want to see is Harrow turning the soft and loving vibe from the Baristar AU on the real Gideon, and channeling that protective fury toward protecting or restoring Gideon. I know it's probably not going to be exactly how it happens, what with everything else going on, but that sleeping beauty fakeout has me hungry to see Harrow try to ride in and rescue her prince.

In abscence of her body, Harrow's soul dreamed of Gideon's eyes; and in abscence of her soul, Harrow's body dreamed of Gideon's hands. If we don't get to see some pay off when she has those hands to hold again, I'm gonna have to chew my own fucking leg off.

[nepenthean-sleep]

griddlehark fic recs, part 3

hi, it has been 8 months since my last fic rec post and there have been a lot of new fics in that time period so: welcome to griddlehark fic recs part 3! this fandom has so many amazing authors, and i absolutely love every one of these fics. all fics here in this part are rated G or T, and tumblr usernames have been added if i could find them (sorry for the notification!). here is part 1. here is part 2 and part 4 (forthcoming).

A Handsomely Dangerous Thing T - zoicite short oneshot set during gtn. harrow's perspective on gideon's duel with naberius, featuring copious amounts of pining.

never exhale all the way G - pigflight short oneshot set during gtn. homoerotic face-painting; need i say more. harrow is so down bad for gideon in this one.

Saltwater T - Raxheim / @theriverbeyond short oneshot, kiriona speculation set between htn and ntn. kiriona meets nona in her dreams about the saltwater pool. lots of wonderful (?) kirianthe interaction as well.

A Simple Charm G - pipistrelle short oneshot set during gtn. gideon bandages harrow's hand and harrow gets flustered. the banter in this one is so good.

salt on the rim T - lifevoid short oneshot, modern au. harrow gets a bit drunk and calls gideon pretty. this fic kinda lives in my mind rent-free; the prose here is lovely.

We Have Always Lived In The Apartment T - labyrinthineRetribution / @thatneoncrisis long multi-chapter modern au, currently unfinished. (deep breath) sorry to be biased but this is probably my favorite fic on this list, if not one of my favorite tlt fics of all time. not to spoil anything, but the writing reminds me a lot of tamsyn's own writing style: there's weird identity shit going on, there's weird homoerotic shit going on, there's weird mystery shit going on. the girls are Heinous and there's bones. what more could you want from a tlt fic.

said the spider to the fly T - mutterandmumble short oneshot, modern college/uni au. harrow's having a bit of a rough time, so gideon comes over to help cook food (neither of them can cook). it's both funny and a bit bittersweet.

mune ga hachikire-sodē [my heart seems to burst] T - nosecoffee / @nose-coffee long oneshot, ntn canon-divergence where kiriona ends up rooming with pyrrha, nona, and cam & pal. this fic takes a really interesting premise and absolutely goes wild with it, and i love it.

never saw you coming T - igneousbitch oneshot, modern college/uni au. a very funny fic where griddlehark pull off a "heist" to put a fish in (professor) john's office. featuring such award winning dialogue as:

“This is my nightmare blunt rotation,” Gideon told her. “And you’re just my fucking nightmare,” Harrow said.

Intern the Sixth T - apocalypticTaco / @notedchampagne long multi-chapter pre-canon au, currently unfinished. a half-epistolary fic about the sixth going on an academic exchange trip to the ninth house, taking place about five years before canon. this entire fic is so goddamn funny and i love how much detail and attention the author pays towards necromancy, necromantic theory, and worldbuilding regarding the sixth and ninth houses.

[lockedtombtheories]

Second question, kinda related to the first (in terms of "what's with everyone betraying god?") is: What did Blood of Eden say to so easily cut through years of propaganda and convince Pyrrha, Cam, SexPal, and Coronabeth to join them?

Cam and Pal - they state it pretty clearly in NtN. "We left for a lyctor" (ch. 23). It definitely wasn't easy, for them, but Cam says "if the Sixth House saw fit to discuss something with insurgents, even in its infancy, then she wanted to know what". (also, "well, the Warden would want to find out" - both AYU.) Plus, the Sixth is “the Emperor’s Reason". Unlike all? most? other houses, they don't have a noble line. It's not exactly a democracy, but a merit system - to the fittest - with the Oversight Body to vote on all important decisions. 

So why wouldn't they look at God, say "your math is off" and go looking for someone who does pass their criteria? In their case they picked Cassiopeia and the devil they don't know. 

Coronabeth - I think she’s a bit of that, a dash of rejection, and possibly a sprinkle of scheming. I'll be honest, I'm never sure where we're standing with these twins! But originally, she was convinced by BoE through the maths of it all. 

“I asked her why she listened to these people, why she was throwing off her contentment along with her faith. The princess told me that she had felt for a long time that the Cohort movements didn’t make sense to her. She said what would be most economically productive was intermingling with these people, allowing immigration and absorption into the Nine Houses; that shepherd planets got more costly the further the Houses extended themselves, and that instead of creating long-lasting industry we were doing little more than slash-and-burn trading. Scattershot, she said. Notwithstanding the moral issue." (AYU) 

We don't know how much of her original plans with Ianthe, whatever those are, but it does sound like Coronabeth moved on from them - “we can do good work, Ianthe. I know people who need us” (NtN, ch. 23). Nevertheless, I suspect that Coronabeth was never going to be satisfied in a subordinate position. She's a princess, a king - she might have become the next Wake, given enough time. 

But yeah, part of her conversion was definitely also the lure of recognition. She was rejected by her sister, while BoE recognizes her for the exact talents she tried to dedicate to Ianthe. (Allow me to also point you towards this very short post of mine about Coronabeth, Tennyson's Princess, and the #gender of it all.)p

Pyrrha - What did they say to her?  Absolutely nothing. They didn't have to. She’s the one who convinced BoE not to kill her, and all she really seems to want is to retire and take care of Nona. Don't get me wrong, Pyrrha's done her own share of war crimes, but I do think that she never worshipped John the way the Lyctors did.  Her loyalties were always more personal, and they belonged to G1deon more than to John. And, well -  "Gideon’s dead, and I don’t give a fuck either. Not if I can save our skins.” (NtN, ch. 1)

[apostleofgreed]

It's here, the finale - my friends thoughts throughout Nona the Ninth (it's a long one)

Right which one of these idiots is stuck in Nona's body

Signs point to both

I think more likely Harrow and shes just removed the massive stick up her ass

Most other signs thus far do point to Gideon though- lack of aforementioned stick, finds herself attractive, loves ass jokes, wants to pet dogs (Harrow seems like a don't work with animals or children type)

Also these other kids have names like they're gonna be running in the fucking grand national

Honestly what the fuck is going on with child conception in this series???

Someone has five dads, God was asking if Harrow and Ianthe were being 'safe' sexually and I'm just confused

Okay so I've only listened to half an hour today but if Crown isn't coronabeth I will eat my own arm

My theory is that neither of them are in Harrow's body and that she's being possessed by The Body

Maybe I should follow in Harrow's footsteps and ask you to fucking lobotomize me

No beta we die like Babs

"what do you think is sexy?" "Eating breakfast" Me too, Camilla, me too

Maybe someone needs to lobotomize Judith, has anyone thought of that?

Thing is I feel like I'm supposed to think John is really bad and is the villain here but I just don't

The worst thing he's done is lie to his friends for a few thousand years

Finally, the baddest bitch in all the nine houses (it's Ianthe)

What a power move honestly first she steals Babs' soul now she steals his body, absolutely inspired

She could literally kill another 200 babies to resurrect Harrow and I'd be like what a babe 😍 at this point

I'm bored of shooting can we go back to swords and doing weird things with your body please

I just think it would be great if Harrow could hop back into her body and have a full meltdown about how to function in this world

Erm Corona darling can you please try to stop them bombing your sister in the body of one of your lifelong pals pls and thanks

Y'all better sTOp

Fucking marry, kill, reanimate I can't hahahaha

"that's not actually crown's boyfriend Nona, it's her sister but I don't think anyone could blame you for getting confused" Fair hahahahah so very true

Don't know how they think this is gonna work seeing as though Harrow and Ianthe literally lived together for like over a year and had an interpersonal relationship but ok

Maybe it's because pash has the accent of a rudeboy from Oldham and suffer is weirdly French (on disliking We Suffer and Pash)

Palamades in Ianthe in Babs is sending me west

Abigail died too soon and really she did all the legwork in Harrow

Can't help but feel all of this drama could have been avoided if Harry had just done the job properly in the first place and just let Gideon die properly

All of this just because an 18 year old gave herself the brain scramblies

Cam has just burst into fire wtf

Can't believe Crux hasn't dropped dead tbh

I've got less than an hour left I feel like we're cutting it fine to get Harry back in her body here

Big flex to be waiting for everyone to arrive smoking a ciggie with your golden skeleton arm

Fucking friendship bracelets and a secret handshake hahahahah

Gideon needs to stop being such a bloody himbo

Who has shouted "get in line thou big slut!" Hahahahah

There we have it, the full series. Hope y'all have enjoyed this.

[harrowharkwife]

camilla or pyrrha for the character ask meme!

THANK YOU EMMA FOR GIVING ME AN EXCUSE TO TALK ABOUT CAMMMM MY GIRL.... CAMILLA DARLING

favorite thing about them: where do i even fucking start. her skill, and strength. her wit, she's so goddamn funny. her resolve. her bravery. the quiet ferocious intensity with which she loves and cares about people. as tragic and troubling and fucked up as it is in canon, i find her perennial tendency towards pair-bonded dysfunctional codependency to be. ALARMINGLY relatable. i love her flat affect. i love her observational skills- she's clever, and perceptive. i may or may not have an enormous crush on her. i love her loyalty and devotion. i love (read: hate) her tendency to deflect any and all important personal questions. i love that she doesn't let go. i love her love for spreadsheets and sharp knives and sensible shoes and sketching. i love her impeccable bedside manner. i love her and her letters and her cassette tapes and her fuckass bob and her smile that makes the earth want to marry her and i love her slate-clay eyes and her laugh. i love that she fought like her heart had already exploded.

least favorite thing about them: i mean, with camilla this question is really more of a "most concerning things about them," isn't it? her codependency, her lack of individuation and independence, her refusal to develop her own identity and exist as her own person. which, like, from one autistic bitch to another, girl i Get It. if i could get away with making myself a satellite accessory to another person instead of having to figure out how to be a person myself, if my society had groomed me to do exactly that from birth, yeah, i would probably do the same thing. being a person is fucking exhausting. but it's also so, so worth it, and it breaks my fucking heart that cam never had the chance, and that the people in her life by and large never encouraged her to really try. we do see pal pushing her on it a little here and there from time to time, and i appreciate that, but it was clearly never enough to stick, y'know? i hate how self sacrificing and selfless she is, i wish fandom at large would talk more about her depression, i want to give her wellbutrin and a hug and therapy.

favorite line: too many to choose. life is too short and love is too long. i don't let go, it's my one thing. sure, it's a nice handkerchief. i think there's another teaspoon full of blood in here somewhere. camilla hect fought like a grease fire. the cohort has taken the rest of him away and i don't know where they've put him.

brOTP: gideon, though i am a lover of the cam/gideon agenda! also nona, and palamedes.

OTP: dulcie, but i also love campyrrha, in like a mutually sorrowful toxic cathartic cav4cav grief sex sorta way.

nOTP: idk that i have one? i'm not really into cam/corona the way some people are

random headcanon: autistic like i mentioned earlier. i think she'd love cats

unpopular opinion: personally speaking I'm not a shooter for the aro/ace cam agenda, though i don't have anything against it!!! I've definitely seen it done in fascinating and lovely and compelling ways before! it's just not how i personally interpret her, but i think that's literally just a personal grudge on account of being an autistic woman with somewhat flat affect, and having seen fandoms Immediately jump to hit every serious-mannered, autistic-coded woman character that has flat affect with the aroace headcanon stick Immediately and at first blush without interrogating the potential stereotypes and assumptions behind that choice. not saying that that's what people are doing with cam at all, just that it was a general pattern i was observing across fandoms- honestly i see the logic behind it with her, and i don't think it's a "wrong" way to interpret her at all, i think it's perfectly founded! but unfortunately i am just projecting on her and she got caught in the crosshairs of me deciding i had Had Enough and that it was time to draw the "let autistic women fuck" shaped line in the sand and take a political stance 😂 you understand. aroace cam truthers are some of my most beloved comrades in arms. peace and love on planet earth

song i associate with them: EXISTENTIAL CRISIS HOUR! BY KILO KISH. see also: butterfly net by caroline polachek, true blue by boygenius, my friend by hayley williams, ***look at me now by caroline polachek,*** francis forever by mitski, the body is a blade by japanese breakfast, crude drawing of an angel by caroline polachek.

favorite picture of them: im on mobile and also stoned outta my gourd so I'll rb this with some art tomorrow!

ty emma!!!!

[llovelyclouds]

notes on pyrrha dve

heres all the relevant info i took note of on pyrrha during my tlt reread, in one place!

(you can find all the other posts from this project here!)

PYRRHA DVE

titles:

Gideon’s cavalier, first gen, founded the second

greek mythological orgin of the name pyrrha

also, pyrrhic victory

notes from gideon the ninth:

G1deon & Pyrrha's room in Canaan house includes a drawing of a chimaera that Gideon describes as "familiar" and a picture on the wall of John and his pals (presumably) with everyone's faces scribbled out with a thick black marker. Also guns (gtn. pg. 205)

notes from harrow the ninth:

presumably lead the development of her and G1dieon's trial at Canaan house, as Mercy refers to it as "Pyrrha's trial" (htn. pg. 97)

 The reason G1deon is named the Saint of Duty (htn. pg. 177)

Asked Wake to kill G1deon quickly (htn. pg. 205)

Was most likely the one conscious in G1dieon’s body when Harrow caught her fucking Wake in Cytherea’s body????? (htn. pg. 216)

"I will remember the first time you kissed me- you apologised- you said, I am sorry, destroy me as I am, but I want to kiss you before I am killed, and I said to you why, and you said, because I have only once met someone so utterly willing to burn for what they believed in, and I loved him on sight, and the first time I died I asked of him what I now ask of you / I kissed you and later I would kiss him too before I understood what you were, and all three of us lived to regret it- but when I am in heaven I will remember your mouth, and when you roast down in hell I think you will remember mine" -Wake's note (htn. pg. 252)

All the lyctors and John loved her (and also thought she was super hot) (htn. pg. 274)

Augustine developed his smoking habit to impress her (htn. pg. 275)

Was ten years older than Augustine (htn. Pg. 278)

G1deon & Pyrrha liked Alecto despite the fact that the other lyctors (at least Mercy and Augustine) didn't (htn. pg. 479)

Mattaius Nonius fought G1deon, and seems to owe Pyrrha a debt (htn. pg. 455)

"We compartmentalised from the Eightfold Word, just like you and your girl- though I'm an accident, and he took more from me than got taken from you. I was able to go underground, even from him."- Pyrrha (htn. pg. 494)

notes from nona the ninth:

Used to be a cop, made detective, knew Gideon from "way back" (ntn. pg. 74)

"'You should be draining and replacing her fucking brain fluid,' said Pyrrha. 'When Gideon and I designed that trial, I used to crack his skull and sieve it myself, just as a control variable. It's aggregative. I doubt you're testing her white blood cell count either. The only other people I put through that damn trial were Mercy and Cris, because only Cris didn't mind being trepanned on the regular. Fucking around with souls is the problem, Sextus… you can't ever get data on souls.'" - Pyrrha, discussing when Cam & Pal "overlap" (ntn. pg. 84)

"I visited her hometown back before Anastasia got settled, and it was grim as fuck then. Just spooky caves all the way down…" -Pyrrha (ntn. pg. 86)

"'Do they still do gravid carry where you come from?' 'On the Sixth, only for research,' said Palamedes. 'I helped at a birth once. Theres a lot of noise and run-up before the real thing happens.'" -Pyrrha and Palamedes (ntn. pg. 121)

"P- was great, but like, Ministry ties or no Ministry ties, a big part of her career was going around to the local high schools and telling the drugs kids that they shouldn't be doing drugs. She'd won medals for competition shooting back north in Hamilton, but we're not talking Jesse James. We're talking Hamilton."- john (ntn. pg. 191)

"She chose us that day, not her career. I always loved her for that. She'd adored being a cop." -john (ntn. pg. 191)

"and it was P- of all people who said, First things first. If they're going to let us fix the world, you've got to make them take us seriously. Get some leverage. If they want to make you into a bad wizard, be a bad wizard. We can write the history books to say you were a good wizard. Or at least an okay wizard. They're not going to listen because we talk nicely, they're going to listen because we scare the shit out of them. He said, Which goes to show you that only getting to NCEA Level 2 isnt going to stop you making waves in life, right." (ntn. pg. 271)

"Nona had thrown exactly two tantrums in her entire life. She couldn't remember anything about the first one, but Pyrrha had told her about it. Pyrrha had been laughing with her mouth, but not with her eyes: her eyes had been very brown and distant and uneasy, as though this tantrum had reminded Pyrrha of something her brain didn't want to bring back." (ntn. pg. 275)

She mentions disco?? how does she know what disco is??? (ntn. pg. 362)

"Gideon… G-, you died for nothing." -Pyrrha (ntn. pg. 390)

“I remember P- behind a barricade… not dead yet… telling me, John, run.” (ntn. pg. 406)

Died pretty immediately after Mercy and Augustine, but before G1deon (ntn. Pg. 407)

“Who are you, foreigner, that you know the mysteries of the Anastasian?” “I was here before it was the Anastasian,” said Pyrrha absently. “Painted a nursery. Mint green.” (ntn. pg. 453)

“Cass and Mercy and I worked on cell thanergy- we need thanergy, fresh thanergy, to activate…” - Pyrrha (ntn. pg. 471)

“And Alecto said, Pyrrha, he laid me down as an appeasement to them; he fed you to them as an appeasement to them; but he has never appeased me, and now all he has done was teach me how to die.“ (ntn. Pg. 476)