#from everything happens from bandstand

[inafever]

On how much Aziraphale has learned since season one:

This is about character development. Inside of a story, everything that happens, happens for a reason. It's meant to tell you something, to teach you or the character of your story, something.

So if the story continues and your character repeats the same mistakes again you know that they are bound to be doomed this time, and even worse the audience is going to certainly lose respect for them, cause they have made the same mistake twice, they haven't learned anything, they're gonna do it again another time, they don't deserve a happy ending. (yes I'm talking about good omens here) So you don't do that to a character that matters to you and you respect even the tiniest bit.

A Lot of us here are thinking that this is what has happened to Aziraphale's character at the end of season two, that he has done it again, repeated the same mistake again and has left Crowley to join heaven and it's been because of reasons like wanting to change Crowley (not true, see this post), still believing in heaven's goodness (not true at all), not being on the same page with Crowley (I'm gonna talk about this one especially in this post) and such likes. But these are the things he should've known better about after 6000 years and all the events that we've learnt about especially throughout season two. (It seems to be rather the whole point doesn't it?)

But we all seem to rather believe that he's made that mistake again nonetheless. so what we're doing here is trying to find reasons to justify the mistake and somehow make the reason behind the wrong actions something relatable to ourselves so we can forgive him when the time comes.

In fact I don't believe that he's made a mistake. for Aziraphale's character to be redeemable, what he has done, must be the only option that he's had for saving them both. I don't care what kind of situation could have resulted in him making this decision, but the only reason, the one and only reason, must be his love for Crowley. Otherwise it'll prove that he hasn't learnt his lessons or doesn't love Crowley enough to make a compromise, and in both cases, he's not worthy of love. He won't earn his happy ending by being tortured and feeling sorry and doing the apology dance for Crowley if he's hurt Crowley out of selfishness and stupidity again

But I'm sure he'll earn his happy ending and I'm sure he's learnt his lessons and it's too late for him to have unlearned them all in a matter of a few seconds. (He is an idiot but he's not stupid) and it's mostly because of this, that I believe the reason why he made that decision, must be very different from what it appears to be on the surface.

Anyway, this post is about what Aziraphale has learned and how he's changed.

I have made a post about their moments of conflict from both season one and two, it's here and you can look it up. This is where you begin to understand how Aziraphale has changed since season one because these are his dialogues after he's had a fight with Crowley in the bandstand, season one:

"even if I did know where the antichrist was I wouldn't tell you we're on opposite sides"

"friends? We're not friends. We are an angel and a demon. We have nothing whatsoever in common. I don't even like you"

"there is no our side Crowley. Not anymore. It's over"

And then there's season two, when they disagree on what to do with Gabriel, Aziraphale is the one to point out that they both rely on the life they've built together

He's asking him to help him take care of Gabriel together and in response Crowley leaves

In the final scene he asks Crowley to come back to heaven

"work with me" "We can be together as Angels, Doing good" "I need you."

He says anything he can think of literally to convince him to stay with him and it doesn't work

We start from "we're not friends" and arrive at "work with me. we can be together"

Even if we don't know the reason why he's insisting on taking Crowley back to heaven with him, this is an Angel that has picked up the pace. That wants them to be an us. No matter what.

But these are only a few dialogues. I think there's more than that. I think the show in five and a half episodes (out of six) has tried its hardest to make the point quite clear about how Aziraphale feels about Crowley (or how strongly he feels those emotions). all through the way he looks at him and through his gestures and soft touches from time to time

I'm gonna make another post of those moments separately and I'm gonna link it to this when I do.

update: (here's the post. not just average moments of Aziraphale looking cute, it's something about the way he looks at him)

And I'd like to even compare those wishful glances to some of those from season one, but I can't, cause they are nonexistent in there.

[dalliancekay]

Bandstand and Final 15

If S1 ended with the bandstand argument, I bet we'd have the same situation we have with S2, people blaming Aziraphale and calling him cruel and unreasonable for not wanting to do as Crowley asked.

Oh who am I kidding, many fans STILL think Crowley was right back then.

Was Aziraphale stupid?

Was it unreasonable of him to try and speak to God and stop Armageddon? Instead of just - trying to kill the Antichrist child and see what happens? Or run? (Run where?)

Aziraphale was heartbroken but he just had to try. That's the kind of person he is. He hoped someone will see how Earth doesn't need to be destroyed. They could go and speak to the child perhaps. There doesn't need to be a War.

But God didn't pick up his call. So we never get to know what She thinks and whether She'd do anything to help as Az hoped - and of course one could argue that everything that happened was exactly what She wanted (and wait for it, that's exactly what Crowley says on the bench as they wait for a bus). Because the 'spokesperson' who did answer Azi's call, didn't understand Az at all and fobbed him off.

After Aziraphale got discorporated in an accident (which looked like agony btw, Crowley wasn't the only one to suffer) he knew he was running out of time and resolved to speak to the kid himself. Kill him even, if there's no time for anything else. But save the world. If at all possible. He assumed he's on his own now, Crowley having left. He was not.

After losing his body (and abandoning Heaven doing a demonic thing), he learns his home and everything in it burned down.

And yet, he's determined to save the world even if he seems to be losing everything.

I see a lot of metas about - did Aziraphale know Crowley was talking about him when he said he lost his best friend...

I believe he did. But what if Aziraphale understood that after the argument, Crowley is saying he lost his best friend... because it is their friendship what is lost. Is that why Aziraphale is so careful with words at first, but when he learns Crowley saved a book, his book, THE book, he knows Crowley is the one thing he did not lose. Because how would Az know Crowley thought he lost Az in the fire? He didn't know Crowley went looking for him. He only knew he disappointed Crowley for not wanting to run and Crowley calling him an idiot and leaving. When Az reached out later from the bookshop, Crowley hung up on him. That's the last Az knew of Crowley before being forced away.

Just because things didn't work out how Aziraphale hoped or was trying to achieve, doesn't mean he was wrong to try.

If anything, he was right. And Crowley would stand right by him and say so too. Would killing the boy (which I don't think they would have attempted at all when push came to shove without the stress that came from being on that tarmac with forces of Heaven and Hell converging) change anything? No. Because they misunderstood (yes, both of them) how the Plan works (or doesn't work). It wasn't about trying to kick one step out from the Plan to topple it. It wasn't about killing the kid or persuading him to not destroy the faulty humanity. It was about shifting the whole mindset. About humanity but also about Plans.

It was about freedom to choose. Az told Adam to make up HIS mind. (Which incidentally, I think Crowley told Eve in Eden too.) Crowley gave Az the space to do so. To be kind. To be his usual self. To be an angel who is strong and brave and open.

Adam took it.

Yet, it still wasn't enough. Their superiors wanted a War. They believed the Plan. But Aziraphale didn't anymore. He changed something. Suddenly it was just a question of finding a loophole to do the right thing. SOMETHING HE IS A VERITABLE EXPERT ON HAVING HAD THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF PRACTICE IN DOING

And when it came to their punishment?

A loophole.

What would the guesses be I wonder on how would they escape? Run? Az deciding to Fall? They tricked them. Not with words this time but with appearances.

_________________

S2 is different. It's not Bandstand part 2. They changed.

Yes, Crowley poured his heart out, wanting to finally acknowledge how much he wants, how he wants things to be simple. Open. Just to be together. But the timing was so wrong you'd think Metatron tempted him into it, to confuse him.

Because Crowley has just been to Heaven and learned why Gabe was being pursued, what the new plans were and knowing Heaven, he must have known Gabe's 'nah' wasn't gonna stop anybody. Gabe just needed to be put away. Which Aziraphale put a stop to with his stubborn protectiveness.

So why wasn't he more on board in helping Az in F15?

gif by @capinejghafa "Tell me you said no." But he did! Aziraphale who said flatly no so many times. To the 'chin-wag' and how he all but laughed at the proposal of him being the new Supreme Archangel. Aziraphale who only blanched when Crowley was brought into the discussion. (Same as some 80 years before... his biggest fear is always Crowley getting hurt and them being forced apart)

(He found a loophole nobody expected, to escape)

"IF YOU WANTED TO WORK WITH HIM AGAIN" (this is the only way Aziraphale*)

So what does Aziraphale do? He gives Crowley a choice. He doesn't say - they are taking me back to Heaven, making me go (because Crowley would follow immediately no questions asked). He doesn't even say he said yes, he just says he got the offer and asks, will you come with me. After all, Az thinks this is forever, that he must leave forever (he looks so stressed and so scared in F15) and he knows they both hate Heaven and would never choose to leave Earth voluntarily - but he wants Crowley to be able to choose - he doesn't want to force him the way he was forced, over his loved one's safety. And his heart breaks when Crowley says no. BUT

Crowley could not follow to Heaven, he made his choice. But he also didn't walk away. He didn't storm off. He didn't drive away. He stayed. I do not think he waited for Aziraphale to change his mind. He knows Aziraphale. He knew the angel made up his mind. He waited so Aziraphale will see that he's there. That he will wait until he's needed. But from Earth.

*I'm sorry but if you think that should Aziraphale insist on staying that he would be left in peace to be with Crowley, than you are not paying attention to what Heaven can do.

To sum up: Their 'arguments' are never about them, they don't need to learn to communicate better (they need to be free to communicate better) they are already doing so much better than expected in the circumstances. They know each other. Their arguments come up because they are not free and there is no way they can be safely together. Yes, they love one another and want to be together (and no, Az does not need to wake up and admit what he's feeling or some such nonsense), but in their world as it is, it's impossible (or the possibility is only very brief) and that's not what Aziraphale can agree to, so he must fight on. He was given that sword for a reason. He will fight. Just not... the usual way and not for what was perhaps intended.

[wolfjackle]

@betasuppe you need to vote in this!

[tonydaddingham]

took me a while to sound out why the final fifteen felt so isolated from all the other arguments that they've had before, but "they aren't talking" might have led me to arrive at why that is. because whilst we have the "so did i" and bandstand arguments to compare it to, the closest that the final fifteen mirrors, for me, is their very first one that we see on screen; the holy water incident (and I'm 100% sure others have observed this but im slow)

the incident where crowley has experienced something that he's playing down to aziraphale, asks aziraphale for something to help him that only aziraphale can give to him, it turns out to be too much to ask of aziraphale, so he refuses, and they split apart. turn all of this around on its head, and you have the final fifteen. (and im going to put the caveat here: no, i do not think aziraphale has been threatened by the metatron and is communicating this in code to crowley, but yes i do think he feels threatened by the metatron; i think he's genuinely eager to take this opportunity, but equally he's not stupid).

so then they go through 79 years of silence, of not talking, and come to 1941, where aziraphale lands himself in a spot of bother, and crowley breaks their silence by coming to the rescue. they get through the church fiasco, and aziraphale enlists crowley's help in the bullet catch ("trust me"), without ever discussing the holy water - all the while, their affection and love for each other is broiling just beneath the surface. perhaps it stands to reason that the same will happen in s3; that crowley will find himself in a Situation, aziraphale turns up to get him out of it - using it as an Excuse - and they end up on the subject of the second coming etc., and crowley reluctantly agrees to help resolve it, but only with the unspoken provision that they, absolutely, do not discuss what happened in the bookshop.

but what about the missing scene of 1941? well, there have been hundreds of different speculations of what could have happened; they actually do discuss the holy water, or there's otherwise a bit of a vulnerable heart-to-heart, there's a kiss, there's an almost-kiss, there's a fight involving the zombies, the derringer comes out to play, crowley gets yanked back to hell again, or gets discorporated... but whatever happens evidently informs on the atmosphere attributable in 1967 - because it's not until 1967 that aziraphale considers his hand forced, cares so much for crowley that he'll do the very thing that he's previously refused to do - gives crowley the holy water - but then puts distance between them again. perhaps the same kinda of thing happens somewhere around ep3/4 of s3; that they finally get to a point where what happened - the kiss, the offer, the mutual rejection - can't be ignored any longer, and a full-bore-full-roar argument erupts at perhaps the most inopportune time, to the point it's just comical, leading them to the point where they finally both understand where they stand with each other, what the other meant, and wanted.

so look, im not saying that crowley is suddenly going to change his mind about going to heaven, in order to track with aziraphale's 180° on the holy water; that doesn't make much sense. and it similarly doesn't make much sense for them to create distance between them like they seem to have done in 1967. if anything, this time it's the impetus they need to get everything out and laid bare, nothing bitten back, nothing squashed down and restrained. "you go too fast for me" suddenly becomes "we're finally on the same page."

[dee-morris]

Aziraphale's Anxiety

There's something I feel like we don't talk about enough when it comes to things that Aziraphale is afraid of. Fanfictions, especially human AUs, interpret his fears and his "rejection" of Crowley as a form of internalized homophobia, and given the strict oversight and corporate-megachurch-coded supervisors I get it. A lot of us have had similar experiences with religion, except Aziraphale gets the added perk of knowing that what they're threatening him with is actually real and not an abusive power play.

But anyway.

Setting side the Final Fifteen for the moment because I stand by my hypothesis that we don't know everything that was happening in that scene or exactly why the characters behaved the way they did, Aziraphale's fears have been primarily guided by a desire to protect. Usually Crowley, but not always. He meddled in Elspeth's situation to try to protect her from going to hell. And if you do the math, he wasn't wrong to do so. A couple of years of misery and poverty against an eternity of torture? For an immortal creature who actually understands the concept of eternity, it checks out.

When he said no to the holy water he wanted to protect Crowley. When he gave him the holy water, it was to protect Crowley, in a lesser of two evils kind of way. When he broke up with Crowley at the bandstand, I think several things are going on: he wanted to protect the earth, he wanted to protect Crowley, and he knew that ultimately leaving the planet wouldn't guarantee their safety because when the end came the ENTIRE universe was getting shut down, not just the earth.

And here's my favorite example: the Job minisode. We really do not talk enough about the fact that Aziraphale could have walked away from this situation at any time without consequences. He never broke the rules. Gabriel told him, All we're doing is not stopping hell. And Aziraphale didn't stop Crawley, technically; Satan's diabolical minister had already decided he wasn't killing anyone. All Aziraphale did was help him, which wasn't the same as stopping him. Rules lawyer Aziraphale my beloved.

So he didn't lie to the Supreme Archangel's face to protect himself or the kids (unless he thought they'd off the kids if they knew they had survived, but that seems unlikely, the trials were over at that point); he did it to protect Crawley. And he was fully prepared to go to hell over it. Not happy about it to be sure, but resigned. And I believe that it wasn't losing his status in heaven that upset him but losing his role as Earth's protector.

Anyway, that's just something that's been kicking around in my head. We've spent so much time between seasons reveling in fanfiction that it's easy to lose track of the canon characters. Aziraphale's anxiety has rarely been on his own behalf, and higher self esteem won't fix his problems.

I stand by my belief, however, that a roll in the hay might help. There fanfiction and I are in complete agreement.

[the-great-pirate-war]

Post Armageddon Headcanon

I refuse to believe that Aziraphale, Crowley, or both DIDN’T get thrown into a breakdown from how mentally and emotionally exhausted they were after the fight against the four horsemen and Satan himself. Combined with their executions.

Honestly so much emotionally charged events happened leading up to what very well could’ve been the end of the world that they both just suppressed because they didn’t have the time to dwell on it.

The bandstand conversation. The bookshop fire. Aziraphale discorporated himself. Crowley seriously drove through fire. Saw how the other would die. Could’ve very well have gotten themselves killed on multiple occasions.

I wouldn’t be surprised if one (or both) of them just started sobbing on that bench in St. James’ Park as everything caught up with them.

[weirdly-specific-but-ok]

pt XV good omens entire season 1: a nice and accurate summary

@neil-gaiman I like to delude myself into thinking you would be proud of this. Are you?

Hello, Asmi here, I present to you a summary so nice and accurate that if you're feeling masochistic, you can just breeze through this to catch up and then directly rewatch season 2 to cry! Which is what this fandom loves to do, so as mascot I'm here to enable you :") Spoilers here, of course, and a lot of chaos.

Episode One! We open with God narrating the Fall of Man and we've got ourselves a Bible AU, east gate angel/serpent forbidden lovers, quite wonderful really.

The serpent (Crowley) now in human form takes the Antichrist and catwalks across a graveyard. Crowley delivers the Antichrist to Satanic nuns but there are several fuckups.

The East Gate guardian (Amoxicillin) and Crowley raise the wrong baby for eleven years with Amoxicillin being a frightening gardener and Crowley being a gorgeous nanny.

They realise the baby is wrong. The real Antichrist wasn't raised by them and therefore owns braincells. He names his hellhound Dog.

Episode Two! Gabriel the angel is an ass, we get some nice witch-burning of Agnes Nutter who made prophecies, and oh yeah the apocalypse is now happening and the horsepeople are out.

Nutter's descendant finds the Antichrist and friends and is hit by Azithromycin and Crowley who are in love. Things happen but what is important is Azithromycin and Crowley stare at each other and also Dog faces off a tabby. Azithromycin lies to Heaven.

Episode Three! Crowley looks gorgeous at Noah's ark, Architecture tries not to listen to her about how shit it all is, boom flood dead.

Lots of romantic flashbacks with Archibald and Crowley, medieval, shakespeare, french revolution etc etc lots of sexual tension, Archibald is in handcuffs, Crowley rescues his books from a Nazi bombing.

Antihistamine gives Crowley holy water, breakup breakup, paintball, sexual tension wall slam, bandstand breakup, it is very sad.

Episode Four! Duck aliens invade earth, the Antichrist possesses children, Crowley and Aripiprazole are incompetent at heroics. Aripiprazole is sent to heaven and everything is on fire.

Episode Five! Crowley is very very sad and Antibiotics reappears and possesses a lady, there is vague hetero sex, Crowley is useless, Antibiotics is the posh gay, everything is still on fire.

Episode Six! Big apocalypse face-off, Crowley's car blows up, no one comforts him, Arsphenamine is now back in his body, eleven year olds kill the horsepeople because Crowley and Arsphenamine are still useless, the Antichrist solves his daddy issues.

Crowley and Antipyretic switch places to survive and then they go out to drink and toast to the world and everyone cries.

THE END! WAHOO!

[I am so, so sorry to everyone who was involved in the production of this show. You deserved better than this summary. But this is what you got. Blame the fandom, I am only a figurehead and mascot.]

[p4nishers]

no im not fucking done aziraphale was starving for THOUSANDS OF YEARS for food for pleasure for kindness for TOUCH he spent his whole time on earth trying so hard not to care not to feel anything bc that's what they hammered into him for millions of years that he shouldn't feel anything for humans bc they're temporary bc they dont matter in the grand scheme of things and then AND THEN crowley (crawley then) showed him what it's like to enjoy something for the simple pleasure of fucking enjoying it and it was like a door had opened and aziraphale realized he was absolutely starving and after that he didn't stop starving and trying to satisfy his hunger and fucking THEN he started to let himself notice crowley and TOUCH him and he obviously tried not to do it for the simple reason that he wouldn't be able to STOP just like with eating he'd have thrown himself headfirst into it and he couldn't let that happen until he was sure crowley wouldn't be in danger bc of HIS feelings and HIS hunger and when they were finally fucking free he let himself want things and have them and he's wanted crowley so much for so long and suddenly he wasn't able to stop being near him and touching him and when he finally thought EVERYTHING would be the best it has ever been crowley yanked the floor underneath him and physically fucking walked away from him again just like he did on the bandstand but this time aziraphale didn't fucking let him walk away and crowley KISSED HIM he kissed him and opened up a hunger in aziraphale that he NEVER EVER in his eternal existence experienced before and he took it away just as fast and walked away again but aziraphale didn't stop him this time and aziraphale was left there to starve

[neurolady]

I Forgive You!

I've seen a million and one different takes on Aziraphale's "I forgive you" in the Final 15. Most peoples initial knee jerk reactions of what the fuck does Crowley need forgiving for, to forgiving Crowley for an unconsented kiss, to (once folk have calmed down and started to see Aziraphale really has no choice but to go back to Heaven) forgiving Crowley for not trusting him. What I haven't seen is the suggestion that it actually has nothing to do with forgiveness at all!

When he says, "May God forgive you" or "May you be forgiven," it's always after Crowley does something Aziraphale believes is out of character or wrong. In Uz Crowley saying he wants to kill Job's children and at the bandstand after his ourburst at God (I'm missing one, I'm sure). I think in these instances he is genuinely saying I hope you're forgiven for what you just did.

On the two occasions, he uses, "I forgive you," Crowley is not acting out of character at all, and neither is he wrong. Aziraphale knows this! The two scenes are completely parallel in s1ep4 by the car when Crowley pulls over to apologise and, of course, in s2 the Final 15.

Crowley wants to talk about them and is ALL in for them to be together - literally, both scenes he basically begs Aziraphale to run off together.

Aziraphale can't get past his cognitive dissonance and insists Heaven is the answer. Obviously, everything is ramped up 1000 in the Final 15, but even in s1, you can see Aziraphale's turmoil at being asked to choose Crowley or Heaven.

This is where I think "I forgive you" has nothing to do with Aziraphale offering forgiveness to Crowley. In both scenes, Crowley pushes Aziraphale's attachment to Heaven even further. In s1, he keeps it about Aziraphale, "...how can someone so smart be so stupid!" In s2, no such restraint, so you know just "No Nightingale's" and THE Kiss!! The effect is the same, Aziraphale is shook (obviously just a teeny-weeny bit more in s2), he's retreating into himself, and his reflex is "I forgive you". He's a being of forgiveness it's an instinct. He also knows - again probably more out of instinct than any deliberate intention - that Crowley will immediately recoil from any attempts at forgiveness, which gives him space to process. So I think "I forgive you", is actually Aziraphale's shield that he throws up between himself and Crowley when his love for Heaven (or more for being an Angel) is in direct conflict with his love for Crowley. He is pushing Crowley away because in the moment, he can't cope with the choice he has to make, and it works both times, and he instantly regrets it both times!

On the plus side, if you condense all the shenanigans that happen after the "car argument" in s1. Crowley instantly forgives Aziraphale for pushing him away, as soon as Aziraphale has a plan he goes to Crowley, he chooses Crowley and Earth without hesitation when the shit is really about to hit the fan and they get their happily until Gabrielle shows up naked at the bookshop a few years later after!

[in-restless-walks]

okay i don't know sorry if this is a weird ask but right now im high and watching a youtube video of simon and garfunkel singin the boxer in the concert in central park and idk i got like a vibe from them so my question is are you a simon and garfunkel historian? do you know the context of their relationship during that moment? i don't know you i just searched simon and garfunkel and ended up in your blog so forgive me if you are not that kind of fan or something idk. i know that simon and garfunkel is big on tumblr but idk sometimes is like in a yaoi kind of way sometimes is like an ironic meme i dont know what im saying tbh im sorry for this. anyway if you don't know could you give me some blogs recomendations so i can ask them? is this a weird thing to ask? do i sound crazy? again im really high and this is taking too much to write because i don't know if i make sense sometimes i forget what word i put before the word i'm writing. anyway. can you help me with my issue? thanks a lot! oh for context i don't really know simon and garfunkel lore so just in case i need context i just know their relationship was like weird like sometimes they got along and then they missed each other or something? okay thanks! <3

Wow, okay, thanks for sending this, and first of all, I hope you enjoyed getting high, LOL. I guess there's nothing like getting high and starting to wonder about the yaoi side of Simon & Garfunkel.

I am not a Simon & Garfunkel historian, so to speak, but I have been a fan for quite some time and I have read all the biographies there are to read, I have done my fair share of research into them, so I do think I know a bit about the S&G "lore". Ever since the first time I saw the Concert in Central Park and seeing the same "vibe" you did during The Boxer, I've also 'shipped' them. That is to say, while I do not think that they were ever in a romantic relationship and everything that that entails, I don't rule out at all that anything of a sexual nature happened between them. Other people seem to think that too, hence the 'yaoi' posts you see on tumblr.

Their relationship was/is a really complicated one and I'm not sure any of us know exactly what happened to make them where they are now - supposedly on no speaking terms. I mean, Paul said in his recent documentary that Art turned from someone who 'got it for him" into someone he hopes never to see again, which...ouch x 1000.

For you and for everyone else getting into Simon & Garfunkel, here's a little crash course.

TL;DR they're both idiots who got along reasonably well if it wasn't about their professional business. Their creative differences re: music (and personal grievances) were always so large (as were their egos) that they followed a pattern of getting together to try (again), fought, were on no speaking terms for a decade, thought to give it another try, and repeat, ad infinitum. In fanfic terms, they are the epitome of strangers to friends to lovers to enemies to friends to lovers to enemies to...

1950s

Paul and Art are childhood friends. They lived a few streets away from each other in Queens, NY, and they went to the same school. They're the same age, born three weeks apart. They formally met when they were eleven, at the school play for Alice in Wonderland (Paul was the White Rabbit, Art the Cheshire Cat). Soon after, they started recording songs in their basements, trying to copy their heroes, the Everly Brothers. They got signed by Big Records by someone called Sid Prosen, called themselves Tom (Art) and Jerry (Paul) and released a fairly successful single called 'Hey Schoolgirl' when they were 16, which even made them go on Dick Clark's American Bandstand show (footage sadly does not survive). Paul recorded a song by himself, without telling Art, while he called himself True Taylor, and Art found out, 'shattering' the friendship with Paul for the first time. (It seems to have never recovered to how it was before). I coin this the True Taylor Incident™️. Alledgedly they didn't speak to each other for a couple of years after graduating high school (1958-1962-ish). During that time, Art recorded a few songs as Artie Garr, and Paul did as well, as Jerry Landis.

1960s

Paul went to study in Queens College, NY, and Art went to Columbia University (there he met his blind roommate Sanford, which is a whole other interesting side story). Paul and Art got reacquainted with each other, performed as a duo again and managed to get signed to Columbia records to record an album in March 1964, which was to be released in October 1964.

Meanwhile, Paul often went to England and mainland Europe (France, Denmark, the Netherlands...) and there he met Kathy who became his girlfriend (Hence, Kathy's Song, and "Kathy I'm lost, I said" from America). He also recorded a solo album while in the UK, called The Paul Simon Songbook. Art went to visit him a few times.

Their first album, Wednesday Morning 3AM, flopped; Art stayed in school and Paul went back to the UK. The album did contain the song The Sound of Silence (acoustic version) and a really interesting thing happened in late 1965 when someone decided to put electric guitars to the track and suddenly it got airplay. Paul was in Denmark when the song was really starting to do well on the charts, and he had to rush home to NYC when the song became number one.

Then, Paul and Artie were suddenly famous! They quickly recorded another album with several songs that were on The Paul Simon Songbook, but now Art's harmonies were on there. They did a lot of tv performances in 1966 and 1967 and toured mainly in the college and university circuits. (I will link some tv peformances and so on later, in another post).

I'm skipping over some things now, but in my opinion, trouble for their relationship really began again when they started recording their album Bookends and Paul had been writing music for The Graduate (Mrs. Robinson) (1968). The director of The Graduate, Mike Nichols, had asked Art and Paul to act in his next movie, Catch-22, but Paul's scenes got cut, and Art went to Mexico on his own for the better part of the first half of 1969, just when they were supposed to record their next album, Bridge Over Troubled Water. Tensions ran super high at that time. Plus, Paul had written the song Bridge Over Troubled Water for Art to sing, but he later said that Art first refused to sing it (Art said that he wanted Paul to sing it in a lovely falsetto voice) and later, during concerts, Art took standing ovations while finishing the song, while Paul was jealous that he didn't get songwriting credits on stage. Paul also said that Art was leaving him to do movies...not long after Catch-22, Art got invited to play a role in Mike Nichols' next movie, Carnal Knowledge. (see also: Why Don't You Write Me...."if it's only to say that you're leaving me"). The whole Bridge Over Troubled Water album is one big breakup album.

Meanwhile, Paul had gotten married to Simon & Garfunkel's manager's ex-wife (I still can't fathom this) and Peggy also kind of encouraged him to go solo. Paul also claimed that his musical interests and Art's were drifting apart, so eventually, they split in 1970. Artie thought they were only taking a break, and allegedly he didn't realize they were really done.

1970s

Both starting solo careers, they reunited a few times as well, such as for the McGovern benefit concert in 1972, and most notably in the second Saturday Night Live episode in 1975 (tell me they're not flirting the whole time). Paul had even written a song, My Little Town, that the both of them performed for the reunion and was featured on both of their (solo) albums There was also a reunion for Paul's The Paul Simon Special (1977), the Brittania Awards (1977) and some other benefit concerts.

1980s

Paul was approached by a concert producer about playing in Central Park and maybe doing a few songs with Art, and Paul was like, I can't very well play support to Simon & Garfunkel, so it was decided that the whole concert was supposed to be the both of them. And time it was, what a time it was! Safe to say the concert was a success, even though they were fighting again (Art wanted to stay as close to the accoustic sets they used to do in the college performances, and Paul wanted a big band on stage). The interviews before the performance are awkward as usual, but it seems that for the performance itself they kind of set their differences aside, and they seem to be having a good time on stage, as good as it gets with these two. The back rub during The Boxer is...I can't explain it, but that was a lovely gesture by Art.

Because the concert in Central Park had been so successful, they were going to bank on that success and do a whole reunion tour AND a reunion album in 1982-1983, but that seems to have been a very miserable experience for them both. Their body language in interviews says it all. It culminated in Paul wiping Art's vocals from what was supposed to be their reunion album and releasing it as a solo album. Safe to say they were on no speaking terms again for a while, lmao, especially when their professional endeavours were concerned. They did hang out sometimes in private, because Paul had married Carrie Fisher and Art was seeing Carrie's friend Penny. Then Paul got famous with Graceland and Artie was once again, forgotten.

1990s

They got inducted in the Hall of Fame (another miserable experience), Paul did another concert in Central Park (without any sign of Art this time) and they did a few reunion concerts in NYC and so, but neither of them looked very happy about that, if you ask me. In fact, the less they had to look at each other, the better. There was apparently one instance where they were fighting and someone had to stand in between them, or they would have physically started attacking each other? Sounds like a lot of fun, huh? Start of another decade of not speaking to each other.

2000s

After getting a Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award, they thought it was a good idea to get together again and do a reunion your, and that seemed to work, for a while. They toured the United States (2003-2004), Europe (2004), Australia/NZ and Japan (2009) and were about to embark on yet some more shows in the fall of 2010, but then Art Lost His Voice (you can see this happening right in front of your salad at the April 2010 Jazz Fest, but they were still very chummy then).

What happened in 2010...no idea, but it wasn't good. And then Art made things much, much worse when he did an interview in 2015, called Paul a Monster, and idiot and a jerk, and how could he leave a successful formula like Simon & Garfunkel behind and no amount of groveling that Art has done since (like begging Paul to call him in an interview) has helped. They are still on no speaking terms.

Now all we can do is wait and hope they come to their senses and kind of make up before they die. Under no circumstances do I still want them to sing together, but damn, if all of us don't want them to just both sit on the edge of a park bench, like bookends, I don't know anymore.

My take on the whole thing: they were good friends as kids, Art never got over the True Tailor Incident and that stayed with him forever; he always saw Paul as someone who could betray him in the blink of an eye. Paul was envious of Art's looks (and height); meanwhile Art wasn't a songwriter, so Paul had that advantage over him. It's not a good balance to be in such a close partnership. Perhaps at one point something did happen between them, complicating things even more, because can you really hate someone that much if you don't have strong feelings for them either? In later years, it seems to be mainly the "creative differences" about the music that was causing a rift, but maybe after all is said and done, perhaps Carrie Fisher said it best "not only do I not like you, but I don't like you personally." Paul 'cheated' on Art with True Taylor and, like any other one half of a (married) couple, he tried to get over it, but never could. (and maybe Paul is a jerk lmao. But Art was no angel either).

I've skipped over a lot of things, so if you have more questions, shoot. There are quite a few of us who are posting regularly about them, and who know about everything I've written above. In fact, there's a Tumblr community on S&G now (see my pinned post) but so far there haven't been many people interested in joining, lol, so if you want in, let me know. People could do a lot more theorizing there, haha.

[fellshish]

For the first kiss asks - strap TF in!

I had just started at a new high school two months prior and I knew this boy because we caught the same bus from our village into town for school, and we hung out with the same people at lunch.

There was a fair happening in the village for Waitangi day (a public holiday, so we had the day off) so this guy was like "let's meet up and go together". We walked around the village and went to the fair, then we walked into the bandstand to watch some of the silly games being played (egg and spoon race, three legged race etc). The bandstand was facing the field where everything was happening, but was shielded from the main crowd by tents and marquees and things. At least that's what we thought.... So this dude kisses me (like full on make out sense) and all I can remember is the guy announcing the races saying into the mic "oh my god who is that?"

We break apart eventually, walk a bit more, make out a bit more in another place, and then we go and find my family who've been at the fair. He says goodbye and says he'll text me. My grandad was staying with us at the time and must have seen everything bevause he said "is that your boyfriend" "I guess?" "Well, just kissing you know. Nothing else" Doubly mortifying 😬

As an extra detail, the guy "dumped me" (don't know if we were ever actually dating) because he said I was "too weird"

SCREAM. Guy announcing the races:

[dalliancekay]

Religious Trauma and the GO Universe

I must admit I don't really understand what people mean by religious trauma in GO context.

As someone who was deeply religious as a child/teenager (please imagine any and all problems that might stem from that) and then left church and faith completely around my mid 20s (because they are awful and a lie) I don't really see how it relates to A&C only cos in their universe, God and Heaven and Hell exist. So they can't stop believing in them and find a different way to live etc, like people who leave religions and cults do. If they try to escape or disobey, they will get punished. Both of them. For different reasons, but both of them.

To me, their trauma is more akin to stemming from family-ish trauma. They belong to what is most like a mafia to me (although I have called it dictatorship or like @tiggety-boo recently mentioned to me, a slavery). They were born into it and can't escape because it encompasses everything. Az clearly knew they aren't as benevolent as they paint themselves for a LONG time. He's so anxious over angel!Crowley's innocent remarks in Before the Beginning, already knowing some things are better left unsaid.

(who made you this anxious already baby angel)

Crowley then somehow (we don't know how) ended up in the faction that split from the main, but that one ends up being in many ways worse. While he can now curse Heaven and call them out for being awful, he still has to do what his bosses say or get punished.

So what I'm saying is that religious trauma to me, implies being lied to about something that does not exist and can be ignored. Being manipulated and led to worldviews that are based on something that is imaginary (and needlessly cruel) and coming to terms with the fact of being lied to (even if indirectly). But what Az and Crowley deal with (to me) is more like hoping to break off from family that has no understanding of you, how you feel, think, what you want or your different views - there's no hope they will even try to understand and are just awful (while painting themselves as the good ones in Heaven's case).

I just don't see Az 'believing' in Heaven's goodness and needing to learn how shit they are. As I often see in comments and metas etc. I don't see him fighting within himself to stop trusting them. He knows they should be good and he would like them to be, yes. Absolutely. He would love for the stuff Heaven says they are to be true (this is where his complicated relationship to shades of grey and his learning path to understand this via humanity and with Crowley, comes in - but that's another story). Aziraphale pays lip service to Heaven if he must (to keep safe his little life on Earth) but he absolutely knows the whole time that they (or at least the higher ones, not angels like Muriel) are rotten.

I also feel like people who see Aziraphale’s behaviour as simply being repressed or needing to overcome or admit his own feelings to himself… have never lived through, or considered times when people had to hide their true relationships and true feelings under all kinds of complicated behaviours and lies where they could claim plausible deniability - about their dear ‘friend’ (or housemate) in fear of punishment for their beloved and themselves.

Now Crowley, whatever happened around his Fall, maybe he was lied to, maybe he was just curious and didn't know what exactly he was getting into (I'm going by his remarks), maybe he was simply angry; is deeply disappointed that it turned out so badly and also that he was so completely abandoned by God (who was supposed to love him).

I also feel that people often skip and simplify his relationship to Heaven and God. That Crowley tried to speak to Her in S1 too. Not just Az has tried. That his outburst about forgiveness in the bandstand wasn't as offhand and flippant as he tried to make it. It hurts him. It's why Aziraphale (very thoughtfully imo) changed his 'may God forgive yous' to 'I forgive you'. Crowley's whole world is now Aziraphale really. Not very healthy maybe, but at least we know Az would never stop loving him. Even if he had to leave. Crowley knows he can trust him. It's why he stayed by the car. It's what he spent 6000 years re-learning. Trusting.

Aziraphale (and Crowley) did something that was supposed to be impossible. However much or little they did for the Armageddon't (and I think they did plenty, unlike some memes I've seen), what everyone understood was going to happen, as based on the Plan, Great or Ineffable as it was, did not happen. And no, I think Crowley also did not expect they can actually stop it when he first asked. He just voiced a question, as he is want to do, being who he is. And got Aziraphale in on it. Whether he was just hoping to give it a go or hoping to spend more time with the angel in the last few years they had, or both. But I don't think he truly believed they can stop the Antichrist and the War that was in the Plan before he set alight the little corner of the universe he's been working on. And after? I can imagine how the endless gears in Aziraphale's head kept turning those 4 years after they attempted to kill him. He now had an inkling that bigger things could change. I don't think that he thought he will be the one to do it, until he was forced into that lift however.

Anyway, I went off on a tangent.... to me GO has religious undertones, sure. But I've always (in spite of my own background) found the story more akin to those stories wondering whether fate is set in stone or are we able to direct what happens to us. And don't get me started now on the question of Free Will.... P.S. I know GO fans come from many backgrounds, I know many are atheists, many belong to (and have various complicated relationships to) various religions and many are agnostic. I honestly do not mean to offend anyone by my remarks. Everyone has their own journey after all. Just trying to make sense of mine I guess.

[daydreaming-optimist]

I LOVE that you’re bandstand posting today bryn 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻💗💗💛💛 there’s always some part of me that’s yelling about it 24/7

(speaking of, idk if I’ve asked before - what are your top songs from the show? 👀)

Jess I will ALWAYS jump at the chance to talk about Bandstand, it is so near and dear to my heart I love it so much (also it's available for rent rn on broadway on demand!!)

As for favorite songs, I really just want to say all of them but I don't think that's allowed lol, so I guess here are my top ones

Right This Way

Welcome Home (both versions!! Obv I LOVE the finale but the piano and instrumentals for the original one are just?? So pretty omg???)

Love Will Come and Find Me Again

Counterpoint/Pie Jesu (underrated MASTERPIECE, this scene/transition doesn't get nearly enough attention for how beautiful it is)

Nobody (the instrumental bit in the middle was my gymnastics floor music my senior year of high school)

This Is Life (again, both versions)

A Band in New York City (especially that bit towards the end where the bari sax and brass comes in while the ensemble is echoing right this way)

Everything Happens (June reminds me of my mom)

Who I Was (because I have to shout out my girl Julia <3)

[tonydaddingham]

Honest question, not trying to pick a fight, but what's Crowley traumatized from if it's not the Fall or whatever else Heaven did to him in the Before? I'm pretty sure he does have trauma (unless you're arguing he actually isn't that badly traumatized period?) and I somehow feel it would be counter-productive to no difference between the sides if that came exclusively only from what Hell did and none of it from Heaven. (I'll also say though it's certainly not proof in any way I do find it hard to imagine the experience not leaving any scars behind, eternal damnation and dive into boiling sulphur and all whatnot.)

hey anon!!!✨ nah, my opinion is that there just isn't the canonical evidence that crowley has suffered trauma at all. we don't know for certain how he fell, we don't know for certain the reason why he fell, and we don't know what his relationship with heaven/god was like before the fall. we definitely have insight into it, from:

pre-fall scene

how he treats his plants/the goats

his drunken ramblings in the pub

(and the seemingly contradictory "sauntered vaguely downwards to aziraphale)

the "unforgivable, that's what i am" thing at the bandstand

and various other things, his sneers at heaven etc etc.

all of these things, to my mind, can be definitely interpreted as symptoms of and responses to trauma... but he could also just be really bloody angry and upset by it. anger/sadness and trauma are not mutually exclusive, of course not - but not all trauma is anger/upset, and not all anger/upset is necessarily trauma. crowley has demonstrated that he's an unreliable narrator; imo, that's the thing that we should be taking as canon (that the fall may not have been what we're imagining it to be, and that crowley's account may be incredibly biased/inaccurate).

we're not shown anything that suggests he was abused by heaven, or suffered a singular huge, or any series of, shocking or distressing event/s. absolutely, you can read into everything shown to us so far and evaluate that, when the final puzzle pieces land, we will be shown that crowley definitely suffered trauma... but equally, what if we're not? what if we're shown that crowley's fall was... a bit bland?

i mean, what if it's the difference between crowley having been rejected by his peers/family, for something completely innocent, and then essentially put through unimaginable, torturous pain through the physical act of falling... and being sacked as part of a massive lay-off that he essentially volunteered for, but thinks was grossly unfair? those are obviously really contrived, polarising examples, deliberately on opposite ends of the spectrum, and the likelihood is that the true events are somewhere in the middle -

- but my point is ultimately that until we're shown exactly what happened, whilst what we've been shown so far doesn't preclude the possibility of trauma/crowley being traumatised, a possibility is all it is; imo, it's not exactly canon at all✨

[dee-morris]

Three Minisodes, Three Themes

The Final Fifteen kicked me in the face, because it felt like it came out of nowhere. As a breakup scene it felt identical to the Bandstand Scene but unlike the Bandstand I didn't sense any foreshadowing. You could see Aziraphale's anxiety and denial throughout season one, so as painful as it was it felt like a natural progression of events. This didn't feel like that. It felt like a complete gut punch.

But that's because Aziraphale's situation was different this time around, the circumstances were different, the motivation was different. Aziraphale is the one asking to run away this time, and Crowley is the one saying, "I can't, it would mean giving up everything." It's the Bandstand in reverse.

And there WAS foreshadowing; I just wasn't paying attention. If we'd gotten one episode at a time like Neil wanted maybe it would have been different, but never mind. There were three flashback minisodes in season two, and each one showed a significant step forward in the ineffables' relationship and Aziraphale's thinking. All of which culminated in That Decision, which was painful but necessary and I will die on this hill.

In the Job minisode, Aziraphale that he can lie for a good cause and get away with it. He also learns that heaven isn't necessarily the arbiter of all mortal goodness and sometimes he has to follow his own inner compass against the advice of people who claim to know better.

In The Resurrectionists, he learns that there's no such thing as absolute good or absolute wickedness. It's an extension of the first lesson, actually, about free will and making choices when none of them seem optimal. When you don't have enough power to keep you and your love ones safe, every choice is going to suck. And sometimes doing good is a matter of creating better circumstances so good choices are practical and feasible. You can't just wag your finger and expect people to do right. You have to give them the tools. Like, idk, angels who have been told for millions of years that Metatron is the final authority on the will of God: what if something happened to make everyone doubt that? (Did Metatrash actually know what he was doing by hauling Aziraphale back to heaven?)

In the Flesh Eaters minisode (my beloved), the ineffables take turns rescuing each other. "I knew you'd come through for me. You always do." "You said, Trust me." "And you did." (whimpers and bites fist) If that's not foreshadowing of the leap of faith they're going to have to take together to survive and save the world again in season three, I will eat Sir Terry's hat.

I knew from the start that there was a good chance season two would end like that, but I thought if I ignored it hard enough it wouldn't happen lol. Oh well. I hope Neil is feeling better, I had that new variant over the summer and it sucked goats.

[sightkeeper]

hey! first off, js wanna say that i LOVE your art and style, and having just binged chosen faces for the first time, I am. smitten.

and so I had to ask you this question- feel free to ignore it if it somehow has spoilers - but ik that you don't plan to cover s2 apart from short scenes that spark your interest, but do you think your aziraphale would've made the same... decision that he made in canon? towards the end?

also can he take metatron in a fight :D pls say yes :D

Oh man oh man, this one really made me think! I don't think answering this is spoilers in any way, as we already know I'm following S1 canon (even if you don't know what changes to events I've yet to make). So the question is whether or not Chosen Face!Aziraphale would have accepted the Metatron's offer, and tried to convince Crowley to join him and become an angel again. Granted, as of now, we do not know the full story of why TV Aziraphale reacted the way he did. We didn't even get to truly see the conversation he had with the Metatron on the offer, only what he tells Crowley. And I don't trust him to be a reliable narrator. Let alone that we never see him say 'yes'. He just says 'I don't know what to say.'

There's a lot of really interesting theories about the new season and why characters act the way they do, but for the purpose of this ask I'm going to go with the assumption that everything we saw on screen is accurate, without anything happening in the background or death threats or spiked coffees to explain their actions. And to this end, I'm going to bring up these past two responses to Q&As:

Because I started this comic pre-S2, I have their very first meeting being on the wall of Eden. CF!Aziraphale never met angel Crowley. He has no assumptions of how happy Crowley was prior to Falling.

TV!Aziraphale is complex and fallible, which is why I love him, but he also has shown that when faced with the ultimatum of running or facing the threat, he'd sacrifice his own happiness for what he felt was right (the bandstand). The end of S2E6 felt much the same to me in this. The Metatron is obviously manipulative, and Aziraphale has a lot more growing to do (as does Crowley, whose response was again to run off together), but at his core Aziraphale wants to do good. It's just whose definition of 'good' and to what end that he wibbles over. Would CF!Aziraphale react the same? Well, kinda no, but also unfortunately yes. I'm so sorry. I don't think the setup could have been the same. CF!Aziraphale doesn't harbor any notion of Heaven being purely good, and hasn't for a good while. But he does want to believe that God has a plan, and that if he can figure out that plan, he can win the game. By this I mean, Aziraphale's initial goals were to be on the "right/winning" side of the game, so he joined the angels as a tactical advantage. But as he grew to love earth and genuinely wanting to be kind, winning the game meant less of being a "victor", and more "If I figure out the game plan, I can subvert it if need be." He doesn't know what the plan is. But he does think the Metatron would know. So an opportunity to infiltrate their ranks and be able to make real structural changes that wouldn't break reality? Yeah, I could see him taking it. And since giving Crowley the holy water, Aziraphale has trusted Crowley to keep himself safe even when he's not around.

howling screaming slashing at the walls

As for whether or not he'd still present the question to Crowley, I think he would (but without the implication of how nice it was back then). He'd present the option only because it is an option, and he wouldn't want to take away Crowley's ability to choose that fate for himself. After all, he chose to be an angel and found a home in that identity. He'd want to offer Crowley that same courtesy, if that's actually what he wanted.

He doesn't want to control Crowley and make decisions for him. And if Crowley's decision means they have to separate for a time until he can figure out The Plan? He'll be heartbroken but he'll accept it.

Okay but the real answer you're looking for: could CF!Aziraphale take on the Metatron and win?

YOU FUCKIN' BETCHA THAT FLOATING HEAD IS GOING DOWN