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autisticsupervillain · 6 months ago

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It's Fictional Throwdown Friday!

This Week's Fighters...

Sans the Skeleton vs Alastor the Radio Demon!

Conditions:

No Restrictions.

Scenario:

Flowey during one of his runs decides to summon Alastor out of hell for his help in obtaining the Six Human Souls and defeating Asgore. Alastor takes the deal and, being who he is, decides to take the bloodiest route possible to his goal. Sans stands in his way in the midst of his slaughter of Snowdin.

Analysis: Sans

The man. The myth. The legend. It's the King of Tumblr Sexymen himself: Sans.

For everyone who's been living under a rock since 2015, let me give you a quick rundown. Sans is a Skeleton Monster who lives underground in the town of Snowdin. He works as a Sentry with his brother Papyrus on the look out for humans, though Sans puts considerably less effort into it than his younger brother. He appears to be nothing more than a lazy bag of bones who simply can't be bothered to try to capture Frisk.

In truth though, he's much more than meets the eye. Sans had some kind of relationship with the Underground's previous royal scientist Dr. Gaster and is strongly implied to be an accomplished scientist himself. He's aware of the effects of DETERMINATION and knows that Frisk can reset time at will. Knowing that all of his decisions can be reset by some alien entity at a moment's notice has turned Sans into an apathetic nihilist who can't bring himself to do the bare minimum of his job anymore.

As such, Sans instead acts as the Judge, watching the human from the shadows and observing their actions. Sans remembers every friend they make and sees every life they take, and he will hold them accountable for each. Though, it's only when the human makes it clear that they're a threat to absolutely everything and everyone, everywhere, that Sans steps into the ring himself.

Sans is the weakest enemy in the game. 1 attack. 1 defense. Maybe even 1 hp. And despite all of that, he's still more than capable of kicking your ass. Firstly, his attacks directly hit both body and soul, to the point of completely destroying the soul in seconds as he ignores your physical durability. Secondly, his attacks come from nearly every direction simultaneously, putting the Player through hell as they have do dodge attacks that spring out of the ground beneath them, alongside lasers that spin all around them from his summonable Gaster Blasters. And third, Sans is remarkably fond of abusing his teleportation. Not to dodge mind you, as he's fast enough to side step everything Frisk throws at him, but to attack. He doesn't need to touch his foe to teleport them around the battlefield, even into his other attacks if need be.

It helps that he is easily the fastest monster in the Underground, capable of dodging attacks from a Sea Tea amplified Frisk even in his sleep, who can dodge lightning.

But the most damning ability in his arsenal is his KR. KARMA is a soul poison that infests the target's soul as soon as they make contact with any of Sans' attacks. The common theory is that it does more damage to the opponent depending on how many people they've killed, as implied by the name and the text when you get hit by it "You can feel your sins crawling down your back".

Sans also has Blue Mode, where he increases gravity on the target's body and soul to pin them down and make them easier to hit. Sans uses these in conjunction his blue attacks, attacks that only do damage if the target is moving when they get hit, do disorient and rapidly obliterate his foe before they can think. Overwhelming assaults are the name of Sans' game and he'll pull any trick he needs to in order to win. Including things that are.... hard to quantify.

See, Sans is somehow capable of attacking you... even when it isn't his turn. He completely ignore the rules of the RPG world he lives in to attack you on the menu screen. Which, as you can imagine, is a hard thing to translate to a non-rpg fight. Do I just assume all encounters monsters follow rpg-rules? There's genuinely an argument that can be made for it, I suppose. One thing I am willing to give him however is his ability to pause the battle by just... not taking his turn. Even when all his other tricks fail, Sans can force a deadlock by just doing nothing until you give up and go away... unless, of course, his opponent is capable of doing the same kind of meta bullshit that he is. When Frisk also breaks the rules by attacking twice in one turn, Sans is caught out by it and dies. Which leads me into Sans biggest weaknesses...

He's still the weakest monster in the game. Monster Kid is stronger than he is. For all his memetic qualities, he's physically the weakest fighter to appear on FTF thus far. Not to mention, his own apathy keeps him from fighting unless he absolutely has to and his laziness completely tanks his stamina.

Even with those factors though, Sans has earned his memetic reputation as a ballbustingly hard boss. When you hear those first few notes, you know you're fucked.

Analysis: Alastor

Hell. The final punishment. The ultimate torture. A landscape of fire and brimstone where all your greatest fears and pains torment you for all eternity. A never-ending gang war where any day could be your last and the only way to truly survive is either carve out your own territory or to sell out your servitude to one of the nefarious Overlords waging to control Hell's Pride Ring.

As such, it might suprise you that some never wanna leave. Why would they when Hell offers you all the slaughter and mayhem you could ever possibly desire? Such is the philosophy of Alastor the Radio Demon.

Alastor was a radio talk show host who moonlighted as a serial killer in life who was sent to Hell after being mistaken for a deer and shot by a hunter while burying a body. When he awoke in Hell, he delighted in the opportunity to openly relish in his sadistic tendencies, quickly rising up to become one of Hell's scariest Overlords. Overlords are sufficiently powerful Sinners who are strong enough to carve out their own territory in the Pride Ring, where all Sinners reside and wage war on each other. Broadcasting the screams of his victims over his radio show before cooking them up and devouring them. Even without the use of holy weapons to destroy their souls and permanently kill them, that fate is enough fo make any Sinner terrified.

Come the modern day and Alastor has grown bored of engaging in his worst desires. There was no variety anymore. No sport. So, for reasons known only to himself, he vanished for seven years, returning only when the Princess of Hell herself announced her latest project: the Happy Hotel.

Alastor would enlist himself to help in her cause. Not out of any guilt or moral code, but to satiate his never ending boredom. Or so he says. Behind that sharp unshakable grin, Alastor's true motivation is a mystery. All we do know is whatever agenda he's pushing... might not even be his own.

Regardless, Alastor is a rather private person, with a strange, inscrutable moral code. Any who try to follow the strings he's tied to may just find that grin to be the last thing they see.

Alastor is one of Hell's most powerful Overlords, with a plethora of terrifying powers. He's impossible to record on modern cameras, he can summon and manipulate an army of shadows, inlcuding even his own, and can grow into a colossal giant to ripe people apart and devour his victims whole. His tendrils are powerful enough to rip apart Sir Pentious's airship and he can create explosions big enough to nearly dwarf the hotel itself.

Notably, he's far stronger than some of his fellow Overlords. Take the TV Demon Vox for instance, who is powerful enough to destroy volcanos, requiring roughly 182 kilotons of TNT.

Source:

None of this however, competes with Alastor's most terrifying ability. His power over souls. Should someone attempt to make a deal with him, they risk losing their soul to him, giving him completely control over them as his slave. He's conned fellow Overlords into falling for this ruse before, exploiting Husk's love of gambling to swindle him out of his free will. Notably, this makes him uniquely capable of potentially killing a fellow Sinner, as Sinners can keep coming back to life in Hell so long as they have their soul, no matter the damage.

But, despite this cunning mind and terrifying power, Alastor is not invincible. He's overconfident to a foolhardy degree, from deliberately trying to piss off Lucifer himself to battling Adam, the First Man, without even a holy weapon and nearly getting himself killed. It's possible this overconfidence is what led to him selling his own soul to an unknown party, playing the pawn in someone else's game.

Still, don't count Alastor out yet. Now that he's exploited Princess Charlie Morningstar's desperation for a "favor", he fully intends on finding a way out of his chains. Only then, will we see what the Radio Demon hides behind his shark toothed grin.

Stay tuned folks~

Throwdown Breakdown:

There are a lot of complicated variables to this verdict.

Both characters have a misplaced reputation as being unstoppable badasses within the scope of their franchises, but that simply isn't true when one examines the actual facts of their canon. Sans would not stand a ghost of a chance against any of Undertale's strongest characters and Alastor, even back in the pilot, was never even close to the strongest being in Hell. So, let's strip them of their reputations and mischaracerizations to see how these too would actually engage, shall we?

On the stats side, Alastor blatantly one shots. Most people do. It's Sans. That's his whole point. But, just as with the Player, Sans is fast enough to dodge Alastor for a very long time. Alastor is faster that run of the mill Sinners like Angel Dust and average Imps like Blitzo, who are fast enough to dodge bullets and automatic fire. But Frisk can outright dodge lightning, which can move hundreds of times faster. Alastor has an advantage in AOE, with his minions, tentacles, and explosions forcing Sans to rely on his teleportation due to their sheer range, but Sans's sheer reaction speed would allow him to process that fact before Alastor's attacks have a chance to land.

"Oh, but Sans didn't use teleportation to dodge Frisk-" Shut up, hypothetical straw man. Frisk was swinging a knife in a straight line. Teleporting would be a waste of energy in a fight where Sans is already running low on stamina, so he doesn't. He's not gonna stand there and get blown up if he can avoid it.

Personality wise, both of these characters are going to be trading wise cracks and zingers all fight, but I find it more likely for Sans's banter to effect Alastor than vice versa. As shown in his duet with Lucifer, the people who get under Alastor's skin are people who completely undermine his intimidating fascade and who he can't just bully with his power and reputation. Sans dodging all his attacks while making terrible puns with big smug grin will gradually drive him up the wall. He's not likely to explode into a rage, but his frustration at Sans refusing to take him seriously, combined with general overconfidence, will undermine him as the fight continues. Alastor's best bet to get under Sans's metaphorical skin is to really lean into his "I slaughtered your whole town" routine, but even that can be countered by Sans's knowledge of timelines and resets that Alastor would have no knowledge of or power over.

The big thing working is Sans's favor here is how his abilities are perfectly tailored to undermine Alastor's. Sinners can't be killed unless their souls are destroyed... and every attack in Undertale can destroy your soul, bypassing Alastor's durability and immortality completely. In fairness, this is nothing new to Alastor. His fight with Adam shows full well he can play evasive and defensive when he knows someone is fully capable of killing him.

The problem here is threefold. Firstly, he still lost that fight with Adam despite that. And Sans's attacks are much more varied, underhanded, and clever than Adam's relentless onslaught. Secondly, Alastor's mobility is going to be tied down by Blue Mode flinging him around. Thirdly, he doesn't know that Sans can do this, meaning he's at risk of attempting to simply brute force Sans into submission and get killed.

Finally, Sans has better meta-narrative fuckery on his side. Alastor's 4th wall leaning is strictly limited to hijacking other character's musical numbers, leaving him with no answers for when Sans elects to simply not take his turn or attack in the middle of Alastor's. He likely wouldn't even understand what's happening, just that neither of them can move suddenly.

Alastor's best chance, beyond carpet bombing with AOE, is to outlast Sans's low stamina, forcing him to heavily exert himself with an overwhelming onslaught until he wears down. But, in doing so, he forces Sans to play a trump card that Alastor has no answer for. Once the stalemate tactics been pulled, Alastor's only remaining option is to manipulate Sans into a deal....

Here's how I see this fight roughly playing out.

Alastor tends to fall into one of two modes while fighting. Either "obliterate with raw show of force" or "outfox and evade". With no reason to suspect he needs that latter, he defaults to the former. After a trade of barbs and a deer pun that has Alastor roll his eyes dismissively, Sans's eyes widen as a massive green explosion stretches out towards him, forcing him to teleport away in a snap. He responds in turn with a Gaster Blaster onslaught that Alastor barely thinks to dodge, turning into a shadow to slip between the sea of bones. Initially caught out by a foe he underestimated surviving, Alastor immediately swaps to evade mode to dodge Sans's retaliatory onslaught. Tentacles pull him between Gaster Blasters, zipping him around across the sky to try and counter the Blue Mode pulling him in all directions. As a cabnibalistic serial killer from hell, KARMA would absolutely tear through his soul the second he gets hit. If he gets hit.

The fight continues at this pace for awhile. The two sides alternating between putting everything into evading the other's barrage and throwing back a storm for the other to weather in turn. Back and forth it would go, as Sans's puns and ribbing gradually get under Alastor's skin. That damn skeleton is wearing out. He can feel it. All he needs to do is press him a little harder, hit him a little faster. Until...

The fighting stops. Alastor braces for an attack that never comes. Nothing happens. They stand there.

"What just happened?"

"it's not your turn."

"Turn? What?"

"and it's never gonna be."

So.... Alastor makes a deal. Keying into the fact that Sans's smile is hiding some dark secrets just like his own, Alastor offers to share the souls with him. To work together to break the chains holding them down. Sans seems to consider it, nods, and they shake on it.

Alastor hears the whoopie cushion just as a sea of bones rises to entomb him. As his soul shatters into oblivion, three words echo around him.

"geeettttttt dunked on!!!"

This Throwdown's Winner is...

Sans Undertale!

#fictional throwdown fridays #sans #undertale #alastor #hazbin hotel

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ivyprism · 5 months ago

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The Creature in the Woods (Artificially Cursed: Backstory...?)

Warning: Kid running into darkness, thunder, cursed girl, mentioned dragon-like appearance, hunting, pelts, etc.

POV of a child (Frisk/Genoise)

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It was there again. I see her every time I look into the woods near our home. Though, I'd seen many creatures there like- a very large golden snake or a skeleton manticore-looking thing. Soterios says I'm seeing things, but what does he know! He's just the friend of Baptisia! I can figure out this dilemma. I just need to sneak away discreetly enough.

I could hear Baptisia and Soterios talking about something while the others were sleeping. Perfect! I make my way through as discreetly as possible. I tiptoe a bit as I can feel the air grow eerie as I enter the forest. I fell into the Underground, this uneasy dead feeling it nothing! I step carefully around the branches and dead twigs around. I feel a bit nervous as I step through. I couldn't hear any animal noises which absolutely wasn't normal. I started to second-guess myself as I walked. This was so creepy, why was I doing this?

Well, before I could truly question why I did this, something snagged my foot and sent me tumbling. I cried and rolled down the hill. I hit some branches and got mud on my sweater. I whimpered faintly as I stood up. This hurt so much, but I survived a fall from Mount Ebott, so it's nothing. I winced as I slowly got up. I looked around and realized I was officially lost. Baptisia will kill me!

I began to roam aimlessly, stroking my arms as the chill set in. I shivered while walking. I had no idea where I was. I was terrified.

I froze as I noticed something in the shade. I felt terror coursing through my veins as some wolves emerged slowly, trailed by a bizarre monster. I began backing up, but I was unable to run. They circled slowly as my heart pounded and seemed to fill my ears as my body screamed at me to run, but I couldn't. I was surrounded when a huge roar erupted. I panicked and glanced up to see a woman(?) with long black hair draped over her face, and she immediately scared the wolves and beast. She appeared human, but she possessed gigantic wings that resembled bats, claws on her hands, and horns that protruded from a mask on her face. I looked up at her as her purple eye met mine and I panicked and looked away.

"T-Thank you." I managed to stutter in front of the odd woman. She stood straight and gazed up at the area. She wraps her wing over me, pushing me to follow her.

"Come." As she stared at me, the woman spoke in a melodic but frigid voice. She started walking, and I quickly followed her, she just saved me so she couldn't be too bad....right? I stared at her from the back. She had a tail and scaly dragon legs. She moves with grace, but she barely speaks to me.

"Um- T-Thank you, again, but where...?" I inquired, and the woman halted to stare at me. She examined me. I rubbed my hands together as her eyes studied me.

"Home." I felt intimidated by her, although she appeared pleasant. Though, presumably, Soterios will murder me if he discovers I disobeyed his "stranger danger" instructions. She moved her win subtly as she rose it above her to avoid me getting smacked by branches. She watched as I walked.

"Um- where is home...?" I inquired as she returned her gaze to mine. She hardly sighed, and with her mask on, I couldn't read anything about her. She was frightening but had a peculiar grace about her.

"There is a cave here. We shall be protected till the storm has passed." Her voice still appeared musical to me, and this is how I discovered she could speak in entire phrases.

"Storm?" I inquired with amazement. She looked up, and I spotted clouds forming in the sky. I was afraid; would Baptisia and the others be safe? She seemed to perceive my fear and gently nudged me with her wing.

She simply said, "They will be fine." She led me carefully inside the cave, and I noticed she had fashioned a makeshift home out of this area. I ran my hands on my arms, it was so cold. She pushed me inside as I heard a clap of thunder. I yelped and she looked at me with some concern in her eyes.

She cautiously led me inside, walking slowly and grabbing a cloak. She draped it around me, and it felt so warm. She slowly grabbed my hands and pushed down my sleeves, she hummed as I was covered in bruises and cuts. She grabs something from her bag and she gently applies it to my bruises. She seemed almost motherly with how soft her eyes were. She reminded me of Toriel and Baptisia, but I couldn't dwell on those memories.

I looked up at her, seeing her amethyst-like purple eyes. She turned away as she started a fire. As soon as she did, she sat down on the floor, and I followed suit. She took up a knife and began gently carving. I watched and then sat down to investigate my surroundings. She had pelts from both prey and predator species. I gasped silently and looked at her. Aside from the subtle crackle of the fire and the soft sound of rain, everything was strangely silent. I was looking at her and I got a better look at her.

She had long black hair that appeared to reach the bottom of her calf. She was wearing a dragon-like mask with cracks on it. She had purple scales, wings, and a tail, but I already knew that. I studied her and her eyes met mine. I instinctively looked away and bit my lip as she watched me carefully, of course, that was when the soft growl of my stomach came into the fray. I felt nervous, I should've eaten more at dinner.

"Are you hungry?" The woman asked, her voice chilly. I stared at her and nodded slowly. She blinked gently, then slowly stood up. "Stay put." The woman spoke quietly, and I glanced at her in astonishment before slowly nodding. She went out of the cave. Her wings dragged lightly on the earth. She then vanished from sight. This allowed me to have a better look around the place. It was certainly a cave, but there were so many colored stones that generated light, so I assumed the fire was only for warmth, not lighting.

I stepped around and I saw a framed picture on the floor, but half of it was ripped and all was there was a skeleton...? I grabbed the picture and squinted, I didn't recognize this skeleton, but they looked very kind. They seemed to be holding the shoulders of a woman, but the picture was torn so I couldn't even see what the woman looked like. I felt chills fill me as thunder roars through again. I quickly put the picture back and sat by the fire. I get closer to the fire to warm my hands. It was quiet, I wondered if that strange woman would come back soon.

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I waited for what felt like forever before I saw the woman come back. she appeared to have some new wounds on her. I got up and rushed towards her. She was absolutely soaking wet, yet, she didn't seem bothered by it.

"A-Are you okay?" I asked through my slight fear. She watched me and shook a bit. She nodded as she gently pushed me back inside. She sat by the fire and pulled out some meat. I couldn't quite tell what kind of meat it was, but she began to cook it.

"I'm fine." Her voice came again soft and to the point. I watched as she cooked, but I couldn't keep quiet anymore.

"Why did you... um..." I began and she glanced up at me. I felt intimidated by her gaze, but I pushed through. "Why did you help me?" I asked and she blinked at me slowly. She looked back at the fire as she cooked. She moved her wing slightly.

"You are a child." She merely replied, turning the meat over the fire. I glanced at her, surprised.

"But that doesn't mean you had to help me..." I responded, and she blinked at me. She hummed while moving her wing and leaning back.

"A child cannot fend on their own." She merely responded again. She watched the fire while turning the meat. "This area is scary and not suitable for children. Even I, who have lived here for years, am afraid of it." She rotated the meat, and I blinked at her. I shuffled closer to the fire, and she looked at me again. I couldn't believe someone as intimidating as her would be frightened by this place. "Once the storm lets up, I will return you to your friends safely." She hummed as she shifted a bit. She kept turning the meat.

"Thank you," I responded, and she huffed gently and continued cooking. I studied her and tapped my lap with my palms before eventually speaking. "What is your name?" I asked. The woman nearly jumped at my quick query, and she looked up at me. She hummed gently as she continued to make the food.

"Hibbertia." The woman, or Hibbertia, responded as she continued cooking. I leaned on my legs as I looked at her.

"Well, um, Hibbertia, you seem hurt." I quickly said and she paused as she looked at me again. It was the obvious thing because she had cuts and scratches on her arms and legs. She hummed as she gave me the food she made and nodded.

"I am hurt, but you needn't worry about it, child." Hibbertia answered as she adjusted her seat. She reminded me of Toriel, and thinking about her made me sad. I shook my head and hummed while I ate a little.

"But I want to help you. You're hurt." I replied as she blinked at me slightly. I grabbed my bag, I hoped nothing was ruined from my fall, I rummaged and grabbed some bandages. I shifted a bit. "I mean- you got hurt getting me food and you saved me. I want to repay the favor." I looked up at her. She leaned back where she sat. I gave her a pleading look. I was a kid, it always works. She sighed.

"Very well." Hibbertia responded, and I grinned. I moved swiftly over to her and examined her cuts. They weren't as awful, but they appeared to hurt. I observed her stand perfectly still and began to utilize the first aid skills Baptisia had taught me. "Child... What is your name?" Hibbertia asked and I tensed. I blinked up at her. Her eyes shifted a bit as she looked at me.

"Um… Actually, my name is Frisk, but I go by Genoise." I responded, and she hummed. She nodded slowly as I cared for her wounds. I opened my mouth to speak, but she interrupted me.

"You are not from this place, are you?" Hibbertia asked, and I tensed. Well, I wasn't, but I didn't anticipate her to ask me out immediately away. I looked down to my lap.

"No, I am not. Neither are my friends." I responded quickly. She hummed and nodded, slowly. She slumped back against the wall.

"I figured since no human in their right mind would be kind to a cursed creature in this forest." Hibbertia hummed while watching me. I stared at her, and she seemed really menacing. I gulped a little, and she sighed. "Don't be frightened. I promise to get you home safely. Hibbertia sighed as she stood up and ran her fingers along the wall.

"Um... Can I ask you something?" I asked and she slowly nodded at me. I gulped and fixed my sweater. "Who's um.. the skeleton in that photo?" I ask as I point at it. Her eyes widen but then she looks away, her eyes looking sad. She hums as she looks back.

"An old friend of mine." She simply replied. She sounded sad at the mention of them. "He was... a truly amazing person. But..." She shook her head and sighed. "You needn't learn that, child." She looks back at me. I nod slowly as she leans back. "For now, little child, finish your food and get some sleep." Hibbertia peered at me through the corner of her mask. I nodded and returned to eating. I watched her as she looked at the previously taken photo.

I finished my food and went to sleep as she glanced at me. She fixed the cloak on me as I drifted into a dream.

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When I awoke, I was in the camp. I shot up and looked around. I still had the cloak. I could see Baptisia, Cian, and Soterios freaking out when I see Hibbertia begin to leave. She seems me looking at her and I reach for her. She pauses and looks back at me.

"Wait- Um… Thank you." I say and she slowly nods. She goes back into the brush as I hear Baptisia scream my name and rush over to me. I couldn't look away from where Hibbertia once stood and I wondered if I'd ever see her again. I rested my head into Baptisia's arm as she holds me and scolds me for running off.

They wonder how I got back and what occurred. I attempt to explain as best I can, but I keep Hibbertia out of it. I knew if I told them about her, they'd never allow me to find and befriend her. I was determined to be her friend.

I felt eyes on me and saw amethyst eyes staring back at me as Baptisia led me back to camp. I smile, and she nods before truly leaving.

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#The masked shadow #the lost spirit #the veiled guardian #the flowery weapon #artificially cursed sona #short story #honestly just about a cursed lady saving a kid and helping them get home #sweet honestly #just some friendship #and a woman scaring off monsters from a kid #and acting like a mom #POV of a frisk

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littlebittykittycommittee · 2 years ago

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Not real evidence, but another thing that I think strengthens the narrator theory for me anyway is this.

Image description: Four screenshots from Undertale, from the Undertale Text Project (link here).

The first two are from the boss fight against Asriel when he's transformed into the Angel of Death, his goat head with long horns atop a floating, legless, triangular body with long clawed hands in gloves and giant, rainbow-colored wings spread out that are shifting colors. Face scrunched up, he's wailing and shouting, "So, please… Stop doing this… And just let me win!!!"

The next two screenshots are from much earlier in the game: the first is in the tutorial fight against the Dummy in the Ruins, which the player has spared. The narration reads, "You won! You earned 0 XP and 0 gold." The final screenshot is from killing an enemy. The player is LV 4 and the narration reads, "You won! You earned 100 XP and 140 gold. Your LOVE has increased."

End description.

The whole game, the narrator has cheered us on most any time we win an encounter with a monster, whether we fought or spared. The only exception is when we beat the boss at the end of the area, again whether that is sparing or killing (eg Toriel, Papyrus) - there is no narration when a boss encounter has been won. The only exception ironically is if you spare the injured Flowey after the Photoshop Flowey fight: the narration simply says, "Flowey ran away." (If you kill him however, the narrator says nothing, as with the result of every other boss fight.)

(Tangent: The Doylist explanation for this is probably that these are the main characters and their words to us when defeated is supposed to be what sticks, so having the narration say "Yay, good job! You got this from that!" might break up the mood in a way Toby didn't want. The narration for "Flowey ran away" is used instead to drive home how pitiful he's become with his tearful reaction to the Mercy spam.)

It just feels like something Toby would do, ya know? Asriel, the antagonist, pleading with Chara, the narrator who's been letting us win the whole game, to let him win. And then, even though they were jabbering excitedly earlier in the fight, they stay silent and say nothing back to his pleas, perhaps because they know he's talking to the wrong person and won't be able to hear them anyway (Frisk is the one he's fighting, not them), or perhaps because they can't bring themself to say anything else after the flashbacks (the narrator does fall silent suddenly after the flashbacks; the reality of it all hitting home for Chara and choking them up?). And of course, with the narrator saying nothing back, Asriel then ends up "losing" as he cries and has his change of heart.

Thematically, it's just too cool that, along with everything else, it makes it really hard for me to believe that Toby didn't intend NarraChara.

It would also make sense as a game the two used to play and perhaps the reason Chara is so quick to start narrating everything for us. Asriel has his Absolute God of Hyperdeath character the narrator is quick to recognize and describe, after all, so it wouldn't surprise me if this was a game they played: Chara the DM describing the world and enemies around Asriel as he, the hero of the story, ventures forth and battles enemies. Drawing their stories, recording their games with the camera. Flowey, the one-time hero of the story, turned villain, wants to keep playing but can never hear their voice again. And Chara, now reduced to just their voice, never able to speak to their friend again and now fated to narrate the real-life, life-or-death adventures of strangers in different worlds (with the silver lining that they at least seem to enjoy Frisk's and Kris' company).

It's also interesting to consider in light of this from Chara themself.

Image description:

Six screenshots from Undertale, again courtesy of the Undertale Text Project, all from the scene at the end of the Kill All run where Chara speaks directly to the player. The first image is a choice the player has to "Erase" or "Do Not." After the player chooses Do Not, Chara says, "No...? Hmm... How curious. You must have misunderstood." And then, in all-caps with their smile still unchanged but their eyes turned hollow and black, they say, "Since when were you the one in control?"

End description.

The only time Chara, our otherwise plucky faithful narrator, won't let you win. They deny you winning in a much more brutal way than the sad silence they give Asriel on Pacifist, and should you do Pacifist again after this, they make sure to snatch that victory from you too.

#undertale #undertale meta #asriel dreemurr #chara dreemurr #narrator chara theory #text #images #image description

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hahanoiwont · 2 years ago

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Pretty sure we've had this conversation before but re 'THATS THEIR DAD' Red was there right? That had to in some way hurt. Because to Red Black is the Sans in the exact same no win situation he was but he *won*. He has the close (the *functional*) relationship with his brother, he has happy life on surface, he has his kid. He has *The* Kid, *Red's* kid the kid Red threw everything away for, the kid that hates him because its was the only way to keep them from loving him so goddamn much. That he hurt so he wouldn't hurt them.

And fuck give it a few months and Black will probably have *Red's* brother too. And its *good* that the two of them have someone who can love them *right* instead of just hurting them in the name of it but it's gotta *hurt* to see what your life could've been if you were just a little bit *better*

if ONLY Red were there. That would be hilarious I mean uh. Very sad. Very sad for him. poor guy...

Luckily for Red, he is not there for this conversation. He and Just Sans are having a different conversation on their own, since Frisk asked for Red to not be there at first. Though the first time Red hears Frisk call Black "dad" he's going to go through a lot all at once. He just didn't think it was possible, or that the word held any real meaning for Frisk. Which, to be fair, it didn't. It came to mean something to them, because it's how Black described their relationship, and he's cultivated a bond with them that has the tenderness and support that they need. Red wasn't able to provide that. What he was able to provide he labeled as a sibling relationship, because it was what he provided/wanted to provide for Fell, so he figured he might as well call it the same thing. (and also because he's aware somewhere in his heart that being forced into a parenting role with fell fucked him up really badly, so while he ended up being as much a parent as a brother to frisk, he has complicated feelings about that.)

Black's desire to yoink Fell and dote on/adopt him forever is also going to be a point of contention between Red and Black, though it may not go exactly how you'd think. Fell doesn't particularly want to be yoinked. While he still has a deep hunger for the affection and validation he never got from Red, he's less prepared than Frisk was to accept it from a relative stranger, so that instant bond with Black doesn't develop. He's used to pushing through his own unmet needs and insisting on his loyalty to Red even when Red himself tells Fell to give up on him and live a better life with people who can be better for him. Black seems to Fell like an incarnation of Red's self-hate: he's stringent about his moral code, he fears the capacity for violence that has kept his family alive, and most importantly he's a judge to the core. Fell also sees Slim's normally well-hidden tendency towards brutal efficiency above all else, and correctly identifies it as a lingering insecurity that if his brother is forced to do too much of the dirty work, he'll be lost forever. So, despite Black's best efforts to save them both, Fell can identify him as being vulnerable to moral self-destruction.

He also correctly identifies part of Black's resentment for Red as being a judgement of the choices Red has made, and Fell is sick to death of Red's self-recrimination. As far as he's concerned, he took the burden of the judge from his brother to save him from this belief that, since he's done such an awful job as a brother, he can never be better. He's chosen to forgive Red. He's chosen to give him a second chance, and in his own way, Red has treated that choice as sacred. He's done absolutely nothing without Fell's consult since then, except in dreams where Fell wasn't available to ask, and made intense efforts to at least try to offer Fell comfort and support where it's needed. He still lacks the skills, but he and Fell are trying so hard to repair their relationship that Black's resentment feels presumptive at best. Black knows of one thing that Red did, one terrible mistake that he made, and refuses to see how he's learned and grown from it. He's seeing the absolute nutjob Sans who hurt his siblingchild, and not Red who's trying to make things right, even if he'll never be forgiven. Not even the person who tried to be what Frisk needed, and tried to send them somewhere better when he realized that he couldn't.

So, when it comes to Black and Red having conflict, Fell will normally refuse to engage while passively sticking to Red like glue. The harder Black tries to pry him away, the more firm he'll be that he wants nothing to do with Black's one-sided drama with Red. He would love to get to know Black as a person, and he's intensely afraid that Black and Slim have replaced him and Red for Frisk, but he's not going to achieve his dreams by sacrificing his family. He still wants to have Frisk and Red both in his life, and he won't compromise.

He's petrified that this conviction will cause him to lose Frisk even after all this, but Frisk gets it. They did live with Red and Fell first, so it's natural to them that Fell can't leave Red. They try to convince Black to cool it about Red so that Fell can at least come to family events without feeling defensive and unwelcome, and they also have mixed emotions about Black's Red-hate campaign. They're glad to have someone so firmly in their corner, but there's still a large part of them that needs to know Red is okay to feel safe. They talk to Slim about their feelings about Red a lot more than anybody else, because Slim is always willing to listen and won't hold it against anyone if Frisk has conflicting feelings that they need to talk out.

All this to say: Red may have already accepted that Black is just better than him in every way and everyone is just going to love him and abandon Red for being broken at the first opportunity, but he's surrounded by a lot more love and loyalty than he realizes. And if he ever needs somebody in his corner, Blue fucking hates Black for unrelated reasons (they are too similar), and the feeling is mutual.

#whither then fic #lol this got long but. everyone's favorite terrible meow meow is goin thru it #red's relationships are so interesting to me #he more than anyone begs the question of second chances #does he deserve to be forgiven? at some point the question is incomprehensible #forgiveness isn't earned and it doesn't make someone a better person #it's a choice by the wounded party to move on #can red as someone who has wounded himself move on?#even if he can't; does that mean he has to mope about it eternally?#what can he do while not forgiving or forgetting what he's done?#the answer is functionally anything. he doesn't have to be forgiven to go grocery shopping. he doesn't have to have a grand redemption #to celebrate his birthday #to love his family #he can go the rest of his life without frisk's forgiveness and that doesn't mean he won't show up at their graduation from college #and even if he doesn't forgive himself he can still find peace and self improvement #what a guy. what a hard to describe guy

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caxyanalysis · 1 year ago

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The game outright states the scariest parts of humans are: their determination which outshines monster's magic, and their ability to persist as a soul after death. This implies determination, as a power, is common enough in humans that monsters have an entire history lesson on it. Obviously not the sole power, as the other human souls we see have different concepts (courage, patience, etc), but common enough for monsters to be afraid of it specifically.

Frisk is a child, and one simply afraid and wanting to go home (at first), and eventually deciding to save monsters (or slay them) with that becoming their goal, until eventually deciding they want to just see how things go in different circumstances.

You're right, we aren't given indication of how much is needed. And given I low-balled Goku and his power at every possible turn to make these fights as fair as I could, it's still safe to say even if Frisk is a freakish outlier within humanity, the determination to save-scum isn't enough to give them a win. Everyone saying Frisk could beat Goku is forgetting one very important detail, because all of you keep saying "they dont need crazy power they can save-scum."

That detail? What you all keep forgetting?

Save scumming doesn't matter if you literally cannot damage your opponent

It doesn't matter if you try 1 time or 999 duovigintillion times. If you hit your opponent with your absolute strongest attack and they just smile and say "Hey, not bad! But you should put more power into it, like this!" and hit you with that same exact attack at 999 googol times your max possible output, you are dying. Frisk can not defeat Goku. Frisk isn't even City-Level in output, and Goku, who is able to sense intent, will see this kid and (post-training with Whis Goku) will put up his guard immediately upon sensing the intent to hurt him.

Goku survives multiverse-level attacks. Frisk, at their strongest, slashes at you with a kitchen knife. Nothing Frisk can possibly do has enough output to hurt Goku, and Goku has enough output to kill Frisk with a bored wave of his hand. And an enemy that just keeps coming back, just keeps trying? He'd respect that like crazy, and he would go all out, and here's why:

Goku loves a good training session, and if he goes any less than full power against Frisk, it's disrespecting their tenacity and he's too good a guy to do that. Frisk loses 100% of the fights against Goku no matter how long it goes on, and Goku can't even lose on getting tired because Frisk resets to BEFORE they fought, meaning Goku's at full strength and full stamina at the start of every single fight.

Saiki's range covers the entire planet earth, Frisk isn't out-ranging that with a save point. Not to mention if they did, they still need to get within his range to fight him. Saiki beats Frisk in 100% of their fights. He might even be able to stop their save-scumming by removing a limiter and rewriting reality so that "Children can't time travel" or some such.

Sans can't suppress his energy. It takes years of training and hard work, dedication and effort to learn to suppress ones energy properly. Goku can sense energy passively, and has the ability to sense intentions on top of that. If Sans is within planetary range, Goku can sense his power and will know exactly how much of a threat he may be, and if Sans is close enough to attack him, Goku will sense that intent. Post-Resurrection F, Goku stopped letting his guard down without reason. Post-Whis Training he's got Ultra Instinct which removes the need for him to think about dodging, his body senses and dodges on its own, independently of his thoughts.

Tricking him won't work. He'll sense the power, the intent, and his body will react in realtime without his needing to want to.

You misunderstand both how Sans' shortcuts work, AND what Goku is capable of.

Every time we see him use a shortcut, it's out of line of sight. Walking through a door, behind a tree, off-screen, etc. He needs to break line-of-sight to use them. He's not breaking line of sight with Goku. Say he does though, for the sake of argument, or say he doesn't even need to.

Goku has Instant Transmission. Instant Transmission is a technique that allows the user to instantly (literally instantly, it happens in the scientific definition of instantly) teleport from where they are to anywhere else, no matter the distance, so long as they have SOME energy signature to lock on to. Sans, powerhouse that he is, would have an energy signature that Goku can lock on to no matter where he goes (Goku literally IT'd from HEAVEN TO THE LIVING WORLD once, and has also IT'd from across the universe to Earth).

Instant Transmission is a teleport, JUST like Shortcuts, with the only weakness being "you need an energy to lock onto". And Sans has that energy. Shortcuts are only an advantage if the other person can't use them, and Goku having Instant Transmission renders that advantage null and void.

I was saving this for this part, and I'm giddy in my seat thinking about it.

Speed.

Not strength. Speed.

Strength means nothing against Sans. He'll see a person punch a planet into dust and go "Wow, wonder who'll write all the orbit-uaries!", and when that person swings at him he'll just dodge. or shortcut. whichever's more convenient.

But speed?

Sans has no answer to anything faster than he is. Goku moves at hundreds of thousands of times faster than light. Goku can see, think, and process at hundreds of thousands of times faster than light.

Sans, however fast he may be, still takes time to dodge and Goku, with both melee and range at his disposal, can rush Sans at top speed, and IF he misses with the melee, can blast where he sees Sans moving to (and he'd see him moving quite slowly at that) or where he is mid-dodge, and kill him.

Strength is not everything. Speed makes a difference. And Sans just does not have the capacity to keep up with speed on the level that Goku has.

Okay, I've been nerd sniped, I'm sorry

So let's go through the canonical likelihood they could each beat Goku. For the sake of keeping canon, we'll keep groups/pairs together if they would never reasonably be apart for something like this.

So first up are the ones I see that would, without a doubt, beat Goku.

Saiki K

Saiki is an omnipotent psychic/psionic with quite literally every single possible power out there. Now, this on its own isn't enough to beat Goku. Versatility doesn't mean everything, but Saiki is also powerful enough to rewrite the genetics and reality of everything within range, and his range is, so far, "Earth".

So this, on its own, would allow him to rewrite Goku's biology to make him Human. Bye bye zenkai boosts, bye bye Saiyan transformations. And Saiki, with his powers, has no trouble beating a Human of any caliber if he truly wanted to. And for those who ask "Why would he ever fight Goku?"

One simple reason: Goku would sense his immense power, and be excited for a fight. Goku is respectful enough to not force one if he's refused, but he's persistent enough to badger Saiki until he's given a chance. And Saiki, being Saiki, would simply take off one of his limiters, or both, and rewrite reality as such: "Being an alien isn't possible", thereby making it effective immediately that Goku must be lying/insane, and he is, in fact, Human. Easy win for Saiki.

And for those who would argue against this, bear in mind, the funniest way to beat Goku in this instance would be to simply make him weaker than Saiki, and Saiki is a gag character from a gag series, and it's already been shown in the world of Dragon Ball, and again in Dragon Ball Super, that Goku is incapable of defeating a gag character regardless of that characters canonical ability.

Saiki could win without gag character status, but even in the instance of Goku "beating" him, the gag would turn out to be that Saiki only pretended to get beaten, and is actually entirely unharmed because it was the easiest way to get Goku to leave him alone. Followed by a reveal that Goku will still show up now and then to ask for sparring matches, to drive the point home.

Popeye

Gag character. Would get beaten handily, crawl his way to spinach, and then be exactly as strong as he needs to be to take Goku down in however many hits is funniest.

Bugs Bunny

The gag character to end all gag characters. Someone on this hellsite once described Bugs as a "Trickster God who traps us in our own societal expectations" or some such. Like convincing Thanos to remove the Infinity Gauntlet by establishing a security checkpoint with a metal detector and shaming him into cooperating by telling him there's others waiting.

He could beat Goku in a billion ways, and each and every one of them would involve some shenanigan like Goku throwing a spirit bomb, Bugs showing up behind him holding it, saying "Ehhh, can you hold this for a second?" and as soon as Goku takes it and Bugs is off-screen, it would explode and Goku would be a pile of ashes with blinking eyes. Bugs would win because Bugs' gag is that...well, he simply can't be beaten.

The Warner Trio

Gag trio. Yakko, Wakko, and Dot would snark, sass, and sarcastic-joke their way into the scene, and they would spend the entire time poking fun at him, roasting his look, being unfazed by his attacks because "Nice laser show but we didn't bring our glowsticks." and just being too unbothered to care.

They would undoubtedly annoy Goku into admitting defeat simply to get away from them.

Road Runner

Gag character. Would force Goku to chase him, Goku would fire some blasts, chase him around, and inevitably be led right into the path of a blast he fired earlier to be disintegrated by it.

Pop Team Epic

I know nothing about this series except that it is a gag series. They are gag characters. That means Goku is inherently incapable of beating them.

ASDF Guy

Gag character. Could beat Goku with a simple "Hello, Mine-Turtle!" or "I like Trains."

Heart Diagram

Goku was literally killed by a heart virus in Future Trunks' timeline. This is one that has actually canonically already killed Goku.

Chowder

Gag character. Would likely be after S-Cells for some recipe and need to take Goku's as he's "The only Saiyan in this episode!" or some such, thereby ending the fight with a shot of Chowder wearing Goku's Gi for comedic effect while Dahl stirs raw Super Saiyan aura in a pot to hint that Chowder killed Goku for his S-Cells.

Force Ghost Trio

Gag versions of serious characters, and also ghosts. Goku is canonically unable to beat ghosts or gag characters, and these guys are both.

Those are the ones that would, without a doubt, beat Goku.

Now, let's go over the ones that could, potentially, be it likely or unlikely.

Kirby

Kirby is often considered a gag character, but he isn't. He has a very specific level of power, even if that level of power is "fuck you" levels of power. Kirby has beaten Gods, but so has Goku, even more often and with greater ease. However, Kirby has absorption and power-theft. Kirby could, potentially, absorb Goku (he isn't the brightest and Kirby has his unassuming appearance on his side) and take on his strongest form, including its powerup, and given Kirby in base form is likely more powerful than Goku in base form (Goku needed SSJ to scare Supreme Kai, Kirby beats Gods in base), it's possible Kirby would be more powerful than Goku with the same power up.

Kevin McCallister

Okay, hear me out.

Kevin is technically a gag character, BUT. He is not TRULY a gag character. He just happens to be a comedy character.

So he isn't guaranteed to win, but he could still possibly do so. How you ask?

Goku has been somewhat injured or lightly shaken by the following: planet-shattering attacks. Punches that rock the universe. Energy blasts so potent they would destroy entire galaxies.

Goku has been rendered inconsolable from the pain of the following: chest pain and a half-heartedly, boredly tossed pebble.

It is canon that when Goku and the other fighters in the series are expecting an attack or primed for battle, they are protected by their ki, like armor. It's how they're able to knock away attacks that would destroy planets, or put their "bare" hands on plasma energy that would normally burn the skin off you from a mile away let alone touching it.

This is why when Krillin threw the rock at Goku, it left him in agony and bruised him despite Goku being in Super Saiyan form at the time. This is why Chi-Chi is able to injure Goku regardless of how strong he gets.

So, how does this relate to Kevin being able to beat him? It's everything. It's critical information.

Kevin McCallister's entire M.O. is unexpected attacks. You open a door, you see a bucket fall, think it's over, turns out no, second bucket pulled by the first, second bucket is full of paint and open, you're blinded, you get your bearings, you take a step and feel cars, you smirk and step over them only to find marbles, you slip, you land on the cars which turn out to have been rigged to break easier to let loose a single thumbtack which is now firmly stuck in your back or butt. You bolt upright only to slam your head on a 2x4 that was rigged to hang down from a rope when you fell because your impact shook things enough to make it fall from a precarious perch above.

You get the idea. Every time you think it's safe to let your guard down, that's when the next wave hits. So you say "well he would stop letting his guard down" right? You fool. You know nothing of Goku. He would never put his guard UP. This is a human child, Goku can sense his pitiful power level. His strength? His speed? His ki? Weak. Pathetic. Nothing. A scouter wouldn't even register his power it's so low.

Goku never raises his guard to Chi-Chi, or to Bulma, or to Hercule. He does not raise his defense against normal, powerless, non-combative humans.

"BUT KEVIN IS COMBATIVE" No. He isn't. Goku can sense intent, power, and location. But Kevin isn't actively intending to hurt Goku. He's intending to protect himself and his home. He's not actively wanting to hurt Goku, he's just wanting Goku to leave. He doesn't have power to threaten Goku with, so Goku won't pick up on any threatening aura. And while Goku could simply instant transmission to Kevin and do what he will, we're not talking about how Goku could win, we're going over the fact Kevin could POSSIBLY win.

Enough injury and Goku is down for the count. Otherwise, Goku leaves to avoid further injury, and thereby admits defeat. Both cases, Kevin wins.

Shedinja

This one took me...quite a while. I had to do a lot of extra research for this. So, my immediate thought was Shedinja is a Ghost type, so ghost rules, right? Nah. Bug and Ghost type, and they are the physical shell left behind that has been reanimated. So they very much are physical beings, and given their ability to faint in the games and show they are capable of being physically damaged.

But There's a real case to be made for Shedinja beating Goku.

It can learn Ghost type moves, which operate on ghost-logic, and therefore are a canon weakness Goku is known to have. So things like Shadow Ball, Hex, Curse, and the like would all effect Goku regardless of Ki or form.

It also has access to Wonder Guard, which renders it "immune to all damage types that are not Super-Effective". For those unaware, we can actually attribute Typings to Goku's moves based on attributes and traits they share with Pokemon moves. His melee is, by nature, Fighting type, which Shedinja is immune to. In fact, Shedinja is immune to ALL attack types except Flying, Rock, Ghost, Dark, and Fire type moves, which are all Super Effective.

Goku's most common methods would actually fall under Fighting and Normal type attacks. "But his Ki blasts-" would be Normal type moves. You want proof?

Focus Energy is Normal Type. Quick Attack is Normal Type. Self Destruct is Normal Type. Techno Blast is Normal Type. Tera Blast is Normal Type. These are all energy based moves similar to ki blasts. Know what other energy based move is Normal Type? Hyperbeam. Which is almost identical to the Kamehameha and every other beam attack in DBZ.

Those few attacks Goku has that aren't going to be Normal Type will be Fighting Type.

Shedinja is Immune to all Normal and Fighting Type moves. Goku literally can not damage Shedinja, but Shedinja can damage Goku through Ghost Type moves. Shedinja can beat Goku. But why is it not "absolutely will" beat him? Because Goku can also transform his Ki and if he finds out Shedinja is vulnerable to fire, he can and will use that to his advantage.

That's who could potentially beat Goku. Here's who absolutely could not.

Saitama

I forgot to go over Saitama originally so here's the edit that features that analysis. Bear in mind I am saying this as someone who has seen Seasons 1 and 2 of the show AND is aware of some of the events of the manga.

A lot of reblogs over Saitama claim he is a gag character. But there is a case to be made that he is NOT. What is that case you ask? Well, for the sake of fairness, here is how I am handling gag characters: if their gag is in effect in 100% of all cases (such as looney tunes like Bugs or Road Runner) or if the gag is triggered in 100% of all cases (such as Saiki K or Chowder) then they are a True Gag Character and will insta-win. However, if their gag has failed (such as Wario, or, yes, even Saitama) in ANY case, then it CAN fail again, and the fairest fight is one against two non-gag characters, so we can safely apply non-gag Saitama here since his gag has failed and Goku meets the conditions to cause it to fail again, which I'll explain.

So, first off, how does his gag fail? Well, his gag is that he kills everything instantly in one hit, unless he actively chooses not to. So we can safely say his gag fails if any of the following are true: he fails to instantly kill an enemy with a single hit while intending to do so, OR if he fails to kill an enemy with a serious hit intended to kill.

He meets both of these conditions. Boros survived for several seconds AFTER Saitama hit him with a Serious Punch. It was a single hit that intended to kill...But he didn't kill Boros INSTANTLY with it. Another example of his gag failing, if that doesn't satisfy, is Garou. Garou, in the manga, has survived MULTIPLE Serious Punches with intent to kill. This, on its own, is proof Saitama's Serious Punch does in fact have a limit to its output. It also proves his gag can, and does, fail against certain opponents.

So the next thing we need to look at is similarities between Garou and Boros to identify what they share that could possibly allow them to get around Saitama's gag, or to nullify it entirely. First similarity is that both are determined to have a good, satisfying fight. Boros crossed the stars seeking one, and Garou sought to become a true Monster powerful enough to force every hero, every do-gooder, to unite under one banner just to take him down. They both seek a battle to end all battles, even if Garou's intention is to end it in his favor, not simply enjoy the fight.

The second similarity is that they have incredibly unique circumstances, even by OPM standards. Garou is a man who has always felt love for the bad guy, he looks to the monsters as inspirations, as the misunderstood and the victimized by those claiming to be heroes. He's trained by an S-Class hero, and has developed into a being of unimaginable power in the pursuit of his dream. Very much a true foil to Saitama, who looked to heroes in comics as inspirations, as the righteous and unshakably moral, self-taught through and through and developed into a being of unimaginable power in the pursuit of HIS dream. Garou is, in this way, a reflection of Saitama, the Tails to Saitama's Heads, the dark to his light.

Boros on the other hand is an alien, forced to become strong by his homeworld's unforgiving conditions, developing a level of power necessary to survive and then some, and on realizing he was far too powerful for his own good, he sought purpose, meaning, and when he heard he may find a worthy opponent, he did everything he could to achieve that future, to realize his dream of facing a foe that would give him a true challenge.

So what are the similarities we can identify? Notably unique circumstances even by OPM standards, sharing strong similarities to Saitama's desires or dreams (Garou dreaming of becoming the greatest Monster vs Saitama dreaming of becoming the greatest Hero, Boros feeling lost in life and seeking a worthy foe vs Saitama feeling bored with living and wishing for the sensation of a real fight again), and the desire for a serious and ultimate battle.

Goku fits ALL of these conditions. He is an alien sent to Earth for his protection, grew up in hostile conditions (surviving on his own for most of his childhood, constant battles with Nation-level threats throughout his teen years, constant battles with world or universe-level threats throughout his adulthood), trained extensively until he was the best of the best, has the ultimate dream of a truly satisfying battle (a dream he routinely seeks out by facing down powerful foes), and being entirely bored with mundane life because there's absolutely no challenge to it, not to mention the fact he has the ultimate dream of becoming the strongest, something he shares with Saitama's pre-OPM self.

Since Goku fits ALL the conditions needed to make this battle exempt from the gag, we will NOT be considering it, as Saitama is not a True Gag Character, and Goku fitting conditions for nullifying it means we can assume actual power limits and such.

So let's look at feats of power. Saitama's Serious Side Hop technique allowed him to create AT LEAST 60 after-images (based on the manga panel) which, when compared with Sonic's 4, means Saitama was moving 15x faster than Sonic in that moment (bare minimum). An afterimage like that is created by moving at least 572mph, stopping in each position for at least 1/255th of a second (any less and the human eye can't pick up on it), so by moving from position A to B for 1/255th of a second and back to A, going 572mph between the two, you create the afterimage.

Sonic creates 4 simultaneously, meaning he needs to move to 3 positions and then back to starting position, or go from A to B, B to A, A to C, C to A, A to D, and repeat. This means Sonic, to move into each of these positions in less than 1/255th of a second, would need to be moving ~4x faster than the speed for one afterimage. That puts him as moving at 2,228mph while creating those 4 afterimages. Given he is capable of Mach 5 speeds (he's said to be hypersonic) this feat is easy for him, as Mach 5 is 3,805mph. I assume, just as it's easier to move at top speed in a straight line than at sharp turns for a normal person, it's likely more difficult to create such consistent afterimages and so the difficulty that makes it his best attack is from the technique and reaction involved, not the speed itself.

In any case, if Saitama made at least 60 afterimages, putting him at 15x faster than Sonic's speed while creating 4, that puts Saitama's speed at 33,420mph just to account for the 60 we can count in the manga panel. This means 33,420 is the MINIMUM speed we can assume for Saitama's max ability. To be generous, given he wasn't winded after doing that and given he was able to react incredibly easily to the near-instant directional changes, I'll be kind and put his maximum speed at 10,000x this number.

That puts Saitama's speed at 334,200,000mph, or 49.8% the speed of light. We'll be kind again and say 50% the speed of light, round up that last .2%

So we have a speed value for Saitama. Now what about Goku? Well, let's look at Goku on Namek, for a moment. Base form Goku, at the start of his fight against Freeza. Goku, BEFORE his super saiyan transformation, was moving at 3.26 (we'll round down to 3) times the speed of light. How do I get this number? Buckle up, it's involved.

The Namekian ship Bulma, Krillin, and Gohan took to get to Namek made it from Earth to Jupiter in "seconds". That means less than a minute, so we'll say it took them 1 minute just to lowball it and to have a solid starting number. Jupiter, when the two planets are at their closest to each other (assuming shorter distance for slower speed, another lowball), is 365,000,000 miles from Earth. This means the Namekian ship moved 365mil miles in 1 minute.

That puts the Namekian ship at a speed of 21.9 billion miles per hour. They made it to Namek in 30 days of travel. The ship Goku took to Namek made the trip in 5 days. That means Goku's ship is 6 times faster than the Namekian ship. Don't worry, the ship speed DOES matter in this, I promise you.

So Goku's ship moves at 131,400,000,000mph. That's 131 billion, 400 million miles per hour. Or 195x the speed of light.

Why does the ship speed matter so much, you might ask? Because King Kai could visually keep up with the ship. He was able to track Goku's progress with ease, and could see his ships movements without problems. This means King Kai's eyes and brain are capable of perceiving and processing things that move at 195x the speed of light.

Why does that matter? Because Super Saiyan is canonically a 50x multiplier to ALL base ability. Strength, speed, durability, etc.

And Goku, in Super Saiyan, was moving so fast King Kai stated he could no longer keep up. King Kai, capable of seeing and processing the input of vision on a ship moving 195x the speed of light, could not see or process the input of vision on Super Saiyan Goku.

We'll lowball it, and say Goku only needed to move 1 mph faster than 195x the speed of light for King Kai to lose track of him. So whatever value we get, we'll add 1mph to for Goku's base form speed.

So 195x the speed of light +1mph. 195/50=3.9x the speed of light. That's 2,616,900,000mph, adding in the extra mph makes it 2,616,900,001mph. So Base Form Goku moves at ~3.9x the speed of light, ON NAMEK. Super Saiyan is a 50x multiplier, putting him at ~195x the speed of light. Super Saiyan 2 is a 100x multiplier to Base, so 390x the speed of light. Super Saiyan 3 is a 400x multiplier, so 1,560x the speed of light. Super Saiyan God is a 20,000 multiplier so 78,000x the speed of light. Super Saiyan Blue is a 1 million times multiplier, so 3,900,000x the speed of light. And lastly, Mastered Ultra Instinct is a 300 billion times multipler, so 1.17 trillion times the speed of light.

Why did I bother going through all those multipliers? He wins in Base as of Namek saga lol. Anyway, continuing on to strength now that we've established Base Goku on Namek could move 3.9x faster than the Speed of Light while Saitama could only move at 0.5x the Speed of Light.

Strength. Okay. This one is harder to gauge, but we CAN gauge it. We'll go in terms of level of damage, so human level (would be on-par or less than peak human ability), town level (small towns), city level (large cities), nation level (an entire nation, less than a continent), continent level (one or more nations that span an entire continent), world-surface level (the surface of an Earth-sized planet), Planetary (capable of destroying an entire Earth-sized planet), Solar (capable of destroying a solar system), Galactic (capable of destroying a galaxy), multi-galactic (capable of destroying many galaxies), Universal (capable of destroying an entire universe), Multiversal (capable of destroying multiple universes).

We'll start with Goku this time. Goku's punches are, as of the Battle of Gods arc, strong enough to match Beerus perfectly to nullify the shockwaves of Beerus' attacks. Mind you, the mere shockwave of Beerus' attacks are enough to rip and tear the fabric of the universe itself, as stated by Elder Kai. This puts Goku's punches as being powerful enough to tear the fabric of the universe in when he first obtained Super Saiyan God. Why does this matter for Base Goku? Because Base Goku retained his SSJG power, as stated by Beerus.

So Goku in Base, post-battle of gods, is physically capable of punches that can tear apart the universe from the aftershocks alone. This is important to note because Elder Kai could physically feel the shockwaves from the World of the Kais. This makes Goku Universe-level in strength. This means Goku, post-BoG, in Super Saiyan is 50x stronger than what's needed for Universal, while Goku, as of current manga canon (assuming he didn't actually get any stronger since BoG and is simply more powerful due to new transformations) is capable of a form (Mastered Ultra Instinct) that puts him 300 billion times stronger than minimum Universe level strength.

And Saitama? Where does he fit here? Well, I thought this gap would be bigger honestly? But after researching, it seems the gap isn't all that big. Saitama has, canonically, with a Serious Punch, snuffed out an entire cylinder of stars and presumably every planet, moon, asteroid, and more, at a distance surpassing that of our solar system, and with a diameter surpassing it as well. This puts Saitama's power (if we lowball it MASSIVELY) at Solar. He could, in a single punch, destroy our entire solar system, and he wouldn't even need to be serious to do it. It's worth noting this is coupled with Garou's own Saitama-level Serious Punch, so we can assume this level of power is double Saitama's own.

So how do we determine the specifics? Well, he cleared an area large enough to cover, presumably, half the area of stars destroyed in the path of his and Garou's serious punches.

Through future revelations in the series we learn they didn't "destroy" every star in that path, but likely only several were destroyed, and possibly a galaxy, while the remainder of the void left behind was from the shockwave forcing every other star within range into a new position, creating a void in space that all stars had been moved from, save the few that were in the DIRECT path of their attack.

Another theory is that the Serious Punch^2 simply distorted the photons in the area, resulting in the appearance of a massive void, and this theory is based on the angles in the manga and comments made by other characters that paint Earth as the only thing in real danger from the power of the attack.

To be fair to Saitama, where we would lowball Goku, we'll highball Saitama, and say the Serious Punch^2 outright destroyed every star in the area. That level of power would, naturally, have shockwaves that push nearby stars out of the way AND distort photons in the area, resulting in a massive cone of destruction surrounded by a large cylinder of force.

This puts Saitama at, quite easily, multi-galactic level of strength.

But why did I say this gap isn't as big as I expected? One simple thing. Saitama has canonically punched his way into a different dimension in the manga. That means he's capable of brute-forcing his way out of the bounds of his universe. He is capable of physically destroying the fabric of the universe.

Meaning Saitama's strength is, bare minimum, Universal in close proximity. That puts him, strength-wise, on par with Goku, who through training has become stronger than Super Buu (who was so strong he could shout his way out of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, a dimension separate from our own), meaning Goku is also Universal in close proximity.

So...while I expected Saitama to be ~Planetary, MAYBE he'd be Solar at most...Research indicates he's actually Universal, or near-Universal, meaning the fight may not be too far a gap after all.

Goku may have Saitama beat on speed (given recent manga events in OPM, I'm willing to allow that Saitama is faster than light speed, but Goku having as many forms as he does (Kaioken, which he can combine with other forms and can hit a multiplier of x100 on top of whatever power he currently has, SSJ1-3, SSJG, SSJB, MUI) means even if Saitama matches Base Goku, he's likely not going to stand up to his stronger forms).

But on strength, I'd wager they're close enough for this fight to be one hell of a battle.

What about Durability? After all, all the strength in the world won't save you if you're as easy to kill as a simple bullet to the head, right?

Goku has withstood universe-ripping punches (from Beerus, the God of Destruction, and based on comments in the manga he's one of the stronger Gods of Destruction too), dimension-tearing attacks (from Goku Black, pre-Fusion), energy blasts that even the Gods of Destruction were nervous of (from Jiren during the Tournament of Power), and he survived multiple blasts from Granolah post-wish buff, who was renowned for his sniping power pre-wish, and post-wish was as powerful as he would be if he had spent every single second of the next 147 years training non-stop with the absolute healthiest amount of rest and physical care, making him, presently, as powerful as he would be at the END of that time, with the price paid being that he only had 3 years to live as he lost 1 year of his lifespan for each power boost.

It was also clear that Granolah was the strongest in the universe...at the time of his wish. Goku and Vegeta, who were already on their way, were not as powerful as Granolah even with their transformations. They became stronger during their fight with him, and stronger still during their fight with Gas (who was more powerful than Granolah after Gas transformed and mastered his transformation).

So we can safely assume Goku is Multiversal in Durability, as he himself was able to output Universal damage with each punch, and he was able to survive hits from beings drastically stronger than himself.

What about Saitama? Well, Saitama was able to survive the force of the Serious Punch^2 and he was able to casually bust his way into another dimension. So his Serious Punch, if he wanted it to, could easily destroy the barrier between universes or dimensions.

And given he survived the force of two of them impacting each other, I would put Saitama at, bare minimum, Universe-level durability. But given he was able to survive prolonged battle against Garou, who is a Power Mimic and has shown Saitama-level strength, we can safely assume Saitama is BEYOND Universal-level durability, and so we can put him right there with Goku at Multiversal durability.

So what do we have so far?

Goku has speed equal to, in Base Form, 3.9x lightspeed, and 1.17 trillion times lightspeed in his most powerful form. Goku has Universal level strength in Base Form, 300 billion times that in his most powerful form. Goku has Universal durability in Base Form, Multiversal durability in his most powerful form (300 billion times his Base Form's durability).

Saitama has speed equal to, at minimum, 0.5x lightspeed, and at maximum, if we highball it, 2x lightspeed. Saitama has Universal strength. Saitama has Universal durability at minimum, and Multiversal durability at maximum.

At this point, I'm convinced the speed difference between Base Goku and Saitama means nothing. Saitama's durability means even with Base Goku moving at his top speed, his impacts won't be enough to beat Saitama. At top speed Base Goku may be putting out Universal damage, but he's not putting out enough to actually BEAT Saitama. Only injure.

Making me rethink my "Goku wins in Base lol" claim earlier, how dare you!

Anyway, at this point, Goku would HAVE to transform to beat Saitama. His ability to sense power and Saitama's evident inability to suppress it (as evidenced by multiple characters sensing his ungodly power even while Saitama is completely relaxed) would mean Goku would know, right away, he needs to transform for the fight.

Saitama's durability means Goku would likely need Super Saiyan 2 or 3, or, more likely, SSJG. Super Saiyan God's multiplier to Granolah-arc Goku, after all of his training with Whis and Vegeta, would most likely be enough to beat Saitama. And given SSJG is enough to "most likely" beat him, then Super Saiyan Blue (aka Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, the form above SSJG) is surely enough, and Mastered Ultra Instinct (a form drastically more powerful than SSJB) is absolutely more than enough to beat Saitama.

And given Goku's mastery over the Kaioken technique, and he's been shown to enter Kaioken x 20 while in Super Saiyan Blue for fair amounts of time as of the Moro saga, meaning even if SSB wasn't enough, given MUI is overkill, it's possible SSB x10 or x20 would be.

The point being, Goku wins this fight due to a combination of technique, experience, and power from his transformations. Given Goku is faster than Saitama and would sense his power as Saitama doesn't know how to suppress it, nothing Saitama could do would be a surprise attack to Goku, meaning Goku would have ample opportunity to react to everything Saitama does.

And given the relatively similar strengths the two bear, Goku would recognize he needs to transform to beat Saitama's output.

And given Saitama's greater durability than Base Goku, and greater durability than even what Saitama himself can put out, Goku would see he needs to transform to have enough of his own output to beat Saitama's durability.

Conclusion: Goku would absolutely win this fight, BUT...I'll give Saitama credit where it's due.

Out of everyone on the entire list, Saitama is the fairest matchup here, and the one most likely to give Goku a truly satisfying fight, given it would be a battle on par with those Goku has enjoyed most.

Kingdom Hearts Mickey

K.H. Mickey has a clear power limit and ability set. He is not strong enough, fast enough, smart enough, or durable enough to beat Goku, but he is just enough of a threat for Goku to actually put his guard up, which is why K.H. Mickey would lose; Goku would see it as a fight, unlike with Kevin.

Crash Bandicoot

Crash isn't nearly powerful enough to be a threat to Goku, but he IS insane enough to push Goku to hostility. Goku would feel the need to put effort into getting him away and that is his downfall.

Hatsune Miku

Goku would assume she is a Red Ribbon android and fight her on assumption she's trying to kill him or bring harm to Earth. He would hit her full force expecting her to tank it and she would keel over dead instantly.

Wario

Everything he could possibly do, the Red Ribbon Army has tried and done better, and they've never beaten Goku. Neither would he.

Sans

Lost to a child with slightly above average human determination, and standard human strength and speed. He does not beat Goku.

And just because you specifically told me not to @ you, have this :)

@that-one-enby-onyx

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stainedglassthreads · 3 years ago

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Musings on Kris’ relationship with the Player, and why neither needs to be the villain.

Also I don’t think that Kris is evil, but I don’t think the Player is evil either. And I don’t think Kris’ relationship with us is as simple as JUST hating us.

Yes, we can choose to do some truly shitty things. Throwing away Ralsei’s manually repeatedly for one example, the Snowgrave route for a far more shitty example. And I’m really uncomfortable with the implications of some theories that we must keep Kris’ darker impulses ‘in check’ by removing their capability for choice. And yes, I agree that sometimes, Kris absolutely does resent us-- most notably, when we prevent them from playing piano or when we make them drop the Ball of Junk.

But they seem to really love Susie, and their adventures in the Dark World, and care for Lancer and Roulxs. Through their actions and descriptions in Chapter 2, it has been observed they seem to love Susie most, out of the Darkners and their childhood friend Noelle. Likewise, Kris will feel bitter if you drop the Ball of Junk(implied to be their Dark World inventory), and fumble to grab Lancer and Roulxs if you drop them in the Light World. So there exist things from their adventures as our vessel that they enjoy. And like it or not, with our assistance is how they made these friendships and encountered these people.

Also... there’s the fact that they do rip the Soul out, displaying they clearly have a method of rejecting us, but keep shoving it back in.

Why do they do that? With how jerky and stiff their movements are without a soul, I’ve seen it theorized that they may be in great pain or even dying without one. Spamton’s final fate... may support this. But it might also just be... we facilitate their adventures. We’re the one who gives them the right choices, to make Susie and the Darkners love them. To help them figure out how to Spare Darkners. To guide them through the Dark Worlds. As fun as the Dark Worlds are, they can include some really scary situations, like fighting King Spades, Jevil, and Spamton NEO, and would a normal teen with no battle experience really be able to keep a level head and command their friends to win without a bit of supernatural assistance?

But there’s another thing I keep thinking about, since writing my last post.

There’s a kind of freedom in helplessness too, isn’t there?

If it wasn’t your choice, then it also isn’t your responsibility. There’s nothing more you could’ve done. Kris seems to be going through a stressful time in their life with their parents divorced, brother gone, and some classmates regarding them as weak, weird, or cowardly. Wouldn’t it be easier to just... let someone else take the wheel? Someone who’s friendly and personable, and calm and smart, and above all determined to get the best possible ending.

Yes. You, as the Player, are capable of doing some truly fucked up things in this game. But saying the player is ‘just evil’ is to surrender the choice to do better. To surrender your choice to do better. In Undertale, did you just sit back and watch Frisk grab the controls from you as they went sparing monsters, like an 8bit movie? Or were your choices an active, driving force in helping the monsters reach the surface?

I think it’d be interesting if Kris wasn’t perfect. if they were selfish, and manipulative, and reckless, and made mistakes in their quest for an adventure and friends. So many mistakes. If maybe their friends got angry at them. And at the very end... they finally took responsibility for their actions, and took initiative in trying to make amends and become a real Hero of Legend. Maybe communicating openly and working with us, instead of ripping their heart out whenever they wanted to do something on their own.

I think it’d add an interesting layer to the discussion on choices, consequences, and responsibility Undertale and Deltarune present.

#undertale #deltarune #kris #deltarune meta #player #red soul #mostly born of my growing annoyance with #'kris is secretly evil! ralsei is secretly evil! WE are secretly evil!'#no. we're not. it's so hard to get the snowgrave route #you need to consciously choose it again and again #you can just... choose not to be evil #if that's the narrative you desire #just like in undertale. you can choose pacifism if it's the narrative you desire #the magic of games that emphasize no one HAS to die #and where everyone is more complex than 'good or bad'#including. i should hope #the actual breathing person playing them #if you think you have less depth than a fictional character... then i am concerned about your self-image

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pyreo · 3 years ago

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deltarune megapost

I wanted to make a Deltarune post about the lore and the things that aren’t obvious. And once I do that I wanna focus on why Mettaton is incredibly important to this setting

And also why he poses a problem

Why did Toriel and Asgore get divorced?

Without the setting of Undertale, Asgore and Toriel’s marriage still broke up after they had Asriel. There needs to be a reason though. In UT it was Asgore’s ‘worst of both worlds’ decision regarding killing anybody that fell from the human world, including children. We saw how close they were before this happened. Only something deep and serious caused that rift. In Deltarune, what on earth did Asgore do?

What happened to Dess?

Mentioned a handful of times by Noelle, Dess was her older sister and is mentioned In Undertale.... in that Xbox exclusing casino thing. The way Noelle talks about her, the conspicuous way Noelle gets locked out of her big house - it implies Dess is gone or deceased. Berdly recalls a spelling bee when he and Noelle were younger where she, despite being smarter than him, misspelled ‘December’, allowing him to win.

In the two-player spelling puzzle, it also spells out ‘December’ as Noelle recalls the past and her silhouette regresses to a child while she does so. Being distracted by her sister’s disappearance, rather than pure shyness, could account for her misspelling her name on stage, and it clearly left a big psychological mark for her to have this visual regression in the Dark World.

However, there’s a graveyard in Hometown with no Dess. I heard another theory that she has been missing for years, because where each character’s personal room is made by Queen to reflect their tastes via their search results, Noelle has a calendar where every day is December 25th. This could imply that Noelle continually searches the internet for ‘December Holiday’, her sister’s name, to see if there are clues to her disappearance, but of course the only result you would get is the date of Christmas.

Who is the Knight?

It’s now implied to be Kris, who has been forcibly removing the player’s influence to act on their own. By all accounts the Knight is the game’s main antagonist. Spade King and Queen both mention the Knight as someone who influenced their position - they brought Spade King to absolute power, and showed Queen that creation of new worlds was possible.

We’re led to believe that Kris was doing this, because they’ve been acting outside of the player’s control. Eating the entire pie between chapter 1 and 2 might have been a red herring to cover that they also went to the library and used that knife to slash open a dark fountain there.

However. This has issues. How would they even manage to shuffle slowly all the way to the library and get in the computer lab? The Knight is also the one creating the hidden bosses. They talked to Jevil until he realised he was in a game and he lost his mind; they ruined Spamton’s life by elevating him to success and then crushing him. Whatever the Knight is doing seems to be deliberately planned with key players in mind.

Kris opening the fountain at home at the end of ch.2 can be explained in that you just figured out in Cyber World that anyone determined enough can do this, and so, Kris decided to. So a better question might even be...

What does Kris want?

We have no idea. They are capable of removing the SOUL, ‘us’, temporarily, and putting things in motion we cannot influence. But they also keep putting us back in control afterward. This is hinted at right when ch.2 starts, where if you inspect the cage in Kris’s bedroom they threw us into, the description says it’s inescapable. Meaning Kris came back and took us out, willingly.

They allow us to pilot them through the game. Why? Because they cannot live without the SOUL for long for some reason? Because they’re bad at bullet hell? Why did they slash Toriel’s tyres before opening the fountain, making sure nobody could drive away?? Why did they specifically open the door?

You can find out details about Kris through the creepy way you interact with the townsfolk, who think you are Kris. They play the piano at the hospital waiting room - better than you. They used to go to church just to get the special church juice. It’s all normal, relatable things, not like someone who’s trying to plunge the world into darkness. Judging by their search history portrayed in their Queen’s castle room, they really want to see their brother again. However the castle has a room based on Asriel’s search history too, and Kris (not you) closes their eyes and won’t look at it.

What is Ralsei?

His name is an anagram of Asriel. Is he an extension of Asriel? The slightly flirtier dialogue in ch.2 would point to no. Is he an extension of Kris themselves, given the link between Kris’s childhood habit of wearing a headband with red horns on it, to pretend to be a monster like their family?

Ralsei knows exactly where the Dark World in the school is located, and unlike regular Darkners, knows the world is folded up inside the ‘real world’. There’s a certain whiplash to Ralsei telling you to hop out of his reality into yours and go down the hallway to retrieve all the board game items.

How does he jump from one Dark World to another, without assistance? How does he not get petrified like Lancer and Rouxls? Is this a power level thing because he’s a prince or something else? We definitely do not know enough about Ralsei.

He also says this incredibly suspicious thing after you spare Spamton NEO. Susie was also curious but accepts that maybe it ‘didn’t mean anything’, which is a sure tell that these optional bosses do mean something.

Someone is orchestrating what’s happening, opening fountains, manipulating the rulers, and influencing NPCs to become the optional bosses. Why? I suspect Ralsei for both knowing too much, and pretending something doesn’t matter when it clearly does. Until Asriel actually comes home from college I’m going to suspect he’s involved in this too.

How much does Seam know?

Seam on the other hand knows a lot about what’s going on but is openly withholding information while helping you. He’s nihilistic. He says things like:

One day soon... You too, will begin to realize the futility of your actions. Ha ha ha... At that time, feel free to come back here. I'll make you tea... And we can toast... to the end of the world!

Either this ‘end of the world’ is a reference to The Roaring, where opening too many dark fountains dooms the Dark World and the real one... or, I can’t get out of my head the idea that Deltarune takes place in a fake, or weird reconstruction of Undertale where things don’t match up, and eventually it will have to disappear. After all, powers of determination and creating and manipulating universes are Undertale’s basic bread and butter. How can we look at an Alternate Universe containing the characters we already know and not suspect that? Seam also uses Gaster’s key words, ‘darker, yet darker’, seemingly to clue us in that he’s not off track here.

Why haven’t we seen Papyrus?

This is a bright neon flashing ‘something’s not right’ sign. It’s not like Papyrus’s voice actor was too busy or anything. His absence is noticable and for a reason. Nice of Sans to promise we could meet him despite being aware we’re piloting a child’s body around, though, even if he didn’t follow through.

What locations in town could be used for dark fountains in the next 4 chapters?

If the sequence continues, we have chapter 1 in the school games room, chapter 2 in a computer lab, and chapter 3 in front of Kris’s television, where the aesthetic of each setting influences the world, characters, and enemies in the Dark World created there. Future possibilities include the church, the hospital, sans’s grocery store, Noelle’s house, and the closed bunker.

What the hell’s in the closed bunker

This one’s too obvious, honestly. I think it’ll open for no reason in chapter 7 and a little white dog will bounce out and steal one of your key items and nothing else happens.

Why does Asgore have these

Unlike the bunker feeling like a joke teaser, I gotta believe this is foreshadowing something weird. For example, what does opening a dark fountain in here with the seven flowers do? Does it just take you into Undertale?

Each chapter will have a hidden boss with a ‘soul mode’ from Undertale

Chapter 1 let you stay red, but I think each subsequent chapter is going to change your soul mode to one of the seven colours and design the encounter around that. Purple, yellow, green and blue were used in Undertale, leaving the light blue and orange modes yet to be revealed.

How does Spamton emulate Mettaton Neo’s name, body, and incorporate his battle theme, and the ‘Dummy!’ theme, with no actual connection between them ingame?

This is a really fun one that’s explained over in this post here. Swatch is the Dark World creation from the paint program on the library computers, so he’s able to explain that a Lightner made the robot body decaying in the castle basement that way.

Mettaton went to the library and drew his ideal form, Mettaton NEO, in MS Paint, and the Dark World formed that into a puppet body which Spamton was able to hijack temporarily. So by doing that Spamton was able to channel Mettaton’s appearance, attacks, music, and SOUL mode for the fight.

This might mean that the future hidden bosses, each with their own SOUL mode, might be based on the associated character for that mode (Muffet, Undyne, and Sans or Papyrus), and the boss will take on some aspect of them from their world to leech their fight mechanics.

The Problem With Mettaton

We don’t exactly know what Deltarune is about. It’s an alternate universe where the characters from Undertale already live on the surface, have completely normal lives, but diverge from the storyline of Undertale and, crucially, have not lived through the changes Frisk brought to their lives.

Remember how Undertale had a dozen different ending routes depending on who you befriended? The constant reinforcement in Undertale was that your choices mattered. Through Frisk, you chose to bring Alphys closure about her mistakes, you chose to befriend papyrus instead of attacking him, you chose to help Alphys and Undyne realise their feelings for each other and it’s only doing that that leads to the golden ending and escape to the surface.

Deltarune is the opposite, your choices do not matter. The only thing you can do to force the route of the game to change is to force Noelle into a No Mercy run, which is indirect, and also, a total desperation to mess with an otherwise set course. This version of the characters have not been helped by Frisk - Undyne and Alphys are not together, Papyrus has no friends, Asgore cannot get over himself, and they’re clearly the worse for it, but potentially, you COULD still do these things. In fact it’s hinted that you already are.

But there’s Mettaton.

He’s still a ghost and does not leave his house. In Frisk’s world, Gaster deleted himself, promoting Alphys to royal scientist by bluffing with Mettaton, and she then build him his ideal body. In Kris’s world... Alphys is a school teacher. There’s no barrier to break, no reason to experiment on souls, no Flowey mistake, and no body for Mettaton.

It was sad in Ch.1, but now with the Spamton NEO fight in ch.2, it’s unmissable. Mettaton wants that body and he cannot get it. Alphys in this universe is not going to leave her teaching job and suddenly be able to build a robot. Mettaton is just... screwed out of his happy ending and cannot get it.

So what resolution could this have? If it wasn’t for Mettaton I might believe in the vaildity of Deltarune and Hometown. But. How can you doom this character? If Undertale was the only way Mettaton could be befriended, then Undertale is Primary Universe A and Seam is right - the world of Deltarune is doomed as some kind of aberration. It all relies on how this gets explained in the future, but the core mystery of Deltarune is how exactly this universe intersects with Undertale and whether one is an offshoot of the other. How the Dark World links into that is another complication. But even as we get more fun characters and neat stuff in the Dark Worlds, let’s not forget we have absolutely no idea why Undertale’s characters are living here with no mention of underground or why there are no other humans beside Kris.

#undertale #deltarune #welcome to my giant essay post

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aceofspadegrass · 3 years ago

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Third Times The Charm~

Characters: Hatter, Niragi Suguru, Chishiya Shuntaro, Last Boss, @a-simp-20 , @niragis-right-hand-rabbit, and Me

Genre: Dunno, but Hatter's out for blood. ♥️ Hey, at least there's some fluff at the end!

1.3k words

We're back at it again, except this is more aftermath than actual heisting. Time goes by and this rendition of Hatter is gonna murder us one of these days.

Hatter thought it was the end of it all, he really did. The three that kept managing to slip underneath his nose, past the militants, would stop after a few times. No use in challenging fate too many times, there was always bound to be a slip-up somewhere.

Yet it happened again, and this time it was getting far too out of hand. He had just come back from a game, just as many of his loyal and dedicated people were doing at the same timeframe. Sweaty and exhausted from the Spades game he just had to push through — with an overwhelming success, he should add — he wanted nothing more than to sit back, relax, maybe have a nice bottle of that black cherry vodka he managed to win last week. What better way to relax?

Well, he wasn’t getting that privilege, as he steps into his room only to find something amiss.

“ Where. Is. My couch.” Hatter says to an invisible audience, eyes staring at the spots where his couches were. The funny part was, through the slow realization of the scene in front of him, was nothing else looked remotely out of place. Every little thing that he remembered leaving on the floor was still there, and nothing looked to be moved. The only evidence that anything was missing was the blank spaces, perfectly aligned in the sad shadow of his purloined couches.

Hatter slowly takes a slow, deep breath, eyes fixated on the spot — and perhaps a little bit of bloodlust was forming in his body, perhaps even more — and he lets it out, a smile of doom forming upon his lips. Oh, those three were definitely on his Super Duper Traitors list. Nobody was gonna steal his couches. Especially a second time.

Hatter strides away to his bathroom to wash up a little, finding zero reasons to not look good before he sends a search party for these three so he can finally get his hands on them. He splashes cool water on his face, washing away every bit of grime and sweat that remained on his face, sighing in relief as the water cooled him just a bit.

Not cool enough to dissipate the fire in his system, of course, but it was a good attempt on the water’s part. He straightens up, staring at himself in the mirror, smile curled on his lips as he nods to himself. “ Oh, this’ll be the day you’ll regret betraying me. I’m going to make sure traitors pay.”

Hatter turns around, his kimono swaying rather spectacularly as he begins his walk down to call a surprise manhunt. Sure, he felt a bit bad that he was sending out people just after finishing harrowing games for their lives, but it was for the greater good of him! After all, he knew what was best for everyone to get out eventually, and they all listened to him. He loved these people, how they willingly fought for the greater cause in support of him and the safe haven he created for all of them.

That support he got was going to a great cause, and that included finding the traitors. He passes by a few people, smiling as he relays the call to them, to spread the word to come back to the lobby so he could tell them all the important news. He doesn’t bother to check if they do as he asked, knowing full well that they’d do anything to help like the good people they were, making his way up to the floor where he usually spoke to the members of his beloved utopia.

Within minutes, the crowd filter left and right to hear what Hatter had to say next, Hatter smiling down at them as they all waited patiently for his news, a few chattering amongst themselves. Hatter raises his arms, a wide smile on his face.

“ Greetings everyone! I do sincerely apologize for calling you all here once more when you all deserve time to relax! Trust me, so do I, but this is quite important for you all to hear!” Hatter starts, voice clear and concise to attract even the most distracted of people. Eyes look up at him from below, Hatter raising his arms and clenching one into a fist. “ As you all know, there are three rules to this Beach!” One hand holds up three fingers, each one going down as he repeats them. “ One! You must always wear a swimsuit! Two! You can do whatever you want here! And three! Traitors will be killed.” Hatter lowers his arms to rest on the railing, leaning forward with a calm smile. “ This is about the third rule~”

That gets people chattering again, fear in their tone and faces. Hatter laughs, and he waves a hand to shush them. “ Do not fear! This isn’t about you, my beautiful and beloved members! No, this is about a certain group that continues to escape my grasp, ones that you may have seen before! They come in and out like cats in the night, frisking away my items like it is nothing more than candy in a candy shop! The horror!” He puts the back of his hand against his forehead, dipping down as if the sheer thought would make him faint. He straightens up again into that relaxed position near immediately, waving a hand out towards the crowd. “ But fear not, for I have a task that will require all of you, militant and guests alike! I want you to work extra hard in locating these dastardly fiends and bring them here so that I may properly hand them justice!”

The crowd grows louder as they continue to gossip amongst one another, and Hatter feels a wave of glee pour through him from the thrill of getting one step closer to catching these robbers. “ If you bring me them, I will reward you graciously! Consider this a bounty, a game without consequence on your end! You are all smart, capable people, and the power of many overthrows a few!” People begin cheering, Hatter looking through the crowd with his award-winning smile. “ Thank you for your patience and ears, you may all go have fun now~” He says, ending his rather passionate little speech as people cheered for him and chattered loudly, Hatter stepping away with a flourish.

Perhaps like this, he’ll finally capture the little thieves and he could finally rest.

Meanwhile……

“ Holy fuck your fucking nails hurt-“ There was a light chuckle, Niragi scowling with his eyes shut tight as his hair was massaged with shampoo, head tipped back into the water basin as he rested on a reclining chair. “ Sorry! I haven’t trimmed them yet, wasn’t expecting you to have a slip ’n slide for hair so it was a last second decision! Now stay still so I can wash your hair-“ They said, going back to trying their best to be gentle but firm.

Niragi pouts, but he lets it continue. Besides him was Chloe, who was casually humming the Mentos ad song while trying to give him a manicure, having already finished his other hand. In the background was Last Boss and Chishiya, the latter of which was just there for the free strawberry milk that was brought in. Last Boss was merely waiting for his turn for a head scrub, despite having absolutely zero hair to actually scrub. The both of them were chilling on the freshly stolen new couch, with multiple empty bottles of milk and a few empty water bottles at their (freshly water foot massaged) feet.

“ So…. are we ever going to tell Hatter that we’re borrowing his couch?” The last member of the heisting squad, Ila, asks. Chloe shakes her head. The one still scrubbing the giraffe lizard merely shrugs.

“ Eh, he’ll never figure out anyways. We’ll get away like we usually do, and these three are not allowed to spill because we’re nice and offered them a free spa day.”

“ You said you’d break my dick with a baseball bat.” Niragi mutters, just loud enough for them to hear. “ The offer still stands~”

#aib #alice in borderland #aib fanfic #alice in borderland fanfic #hatter #takeru danma #niragi suguru #last boss #takatora samura #chishiya shuntaro #hatter means business now he's got a bounty on our asses~#unfortunately for him this is my land and he's never getting us #hatter wants us gone because we keep stealing his shit ✨#but hey! at least the squad is having a spa day with three of the boys!#yes we stole his couch again but this time for good reason #we may have also stolen a small bit of their milk supply but shhhh #who will win: a whole building of people who basically worship a surfer dude celebrity #or three humans who are up to crimes against one person and one person only #last boss is here to get fucking PAMPERED for spa day #he can do whatever he wants it's his life after all

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bapzap · 3 months ago

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follow up because the SOULs are a valid consideration:

I do think the SOULs would push it into a tossup. The King is a very determined person, but Asgore is too. The only reason he's so easily defeated in Undertale is due to him being quite literally suicidal and wanting to die when Frisk arrives. Monsters rely on their emotions heavily for their combat ability and Asgore was actively trying to die during the final fight, and even then he was still a tough fight for Frisk.

Although everything said before still applies-- in a straight regular 1v1 he'd get dusted very quickly, if he absorbs the 6 human souls prior to fighting King the situation changes.

As seen with Flowey, you become borderline a godlike being with six souls. Frisk manages absolutely nothing until the SOULs rebel, and unlike Frisk I doubt the King has any interest whatsoever in conversing with the SOULs to inspire rebellion. Unlike Flowey, Asgore wouldn't play with his food either. He'd be here to kill.

In this case it would likely come down to a much more even playing field of a pseudo-god king against a MAX LOVE Universe-Ordained King. With the SOULs the primary weaknesses of being a Monster would be lessened if not completely nullified with how tanky and powerful Photoshop Flowey is.

And unlike King who probably wouldn't be able to see this much beyond "it is what has to be done, the Universe says so, etc etc", Asgore would find it very easy to utterly loathe King. He's like a dark mirror of himself. Asgore already hates himself as far as we can tell, but another King who killed children for a 'greater cause'... except there's not even a greater cause? It's entirely selfish? It was to make a point?

Yeah. Asgore would be giving it his absolute maximum. Six SOULs Asgore may not be able to win, but I'm not sure LV 20 King would be able to either. I think it's a solid 50-50 tossup there from how powerful Photoshop Flowey is shown to be. Although we only see PSF fight a LV 1 Frisk I can't imagine it being much different with higher LOVE barring Chara shenanigans which King wouldn't have access to without turning this essay into an entire crossover AU.

There's a tossup as to whether King would have SAVE/LOAD due to his Determination and his already existing time powers or if Asgore could lay claim to it himself due to the combined Determination of six human SOULs; or if neither could use it. Hell, there'd be a decent chance they play tug of war with it with how they are. I think that'd be neat.

For some flavor text, please imagine they both are aware the other has A.) killed children before for the good of his kingdom (Asgore) and B.) killed a child to make a point to the Main Character (The King). Who do you think would win in this instance?

#ISAT #ISAT spoilers #UTDR #Undertale #i continue to be very normal on your post OP #i hope you're enjoying my 10:22 PM madness #im not sure how King's time freeze ability would come into play here given... yknow #godly abilities of a 6 souled monster #but yknow

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squarefriend · 3 years ago

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Mermay ended yesterday, but I’m sitting on the beach at this very moment so let’s fucking do this:

🌴🐬BEACH HEAD CANNONS!!!🐬🌴

Chara

❤️ They are actually rather neutral over the ocean. Far more of a skipping stones and playing in the lake kind of kid. Though, they do have a respect for the water’s raw power and changing tides. (Also seeing how much Undyne loves it made them want to appreciate the ocean more)

❤️ Thanks to being attached to Frisk’s soul, they kinda have to go to the beach all the time now. They like to go out as far as they can and walk along to the bottom, or float above Frisk and try to freak them out.

❤️ All that being said, they ADORE sharks. They nerd out every time they get to go to the aquarium. (Then get kinda embarrassed about it).

❤️ They have (on more than one occasion) convinced Frisk that because they’re a ghost they can see all the ghosts of everyone who’s drowned, and that yes, pirates ARE coming to get them...... It backfired at the notion that now Frisk WANTED to go meet the ghost pirates.

❤️ Had a brief period of wanting to be a mermaid, purely because A) Not a human and B) Typically man eaters. It suited their style

Frisk

❤️ They LOVE the ocean.... or rather, they love the beach. There’s one right at the edge of Ebbott City, so in the summer, they get to go up every weekend or so. And you can bet on that weekend, they have an absolute ball with whomever family/friend took them this time.

❤️ Their favorite part is exploring. They love to run around on the beach, looking for shells or any critters, as well as going out into as deep as the can in the ocean (usually only to be called back by their mom). Speak of the devil, Toriel bought them a snorkeling kit for their gotcha day and that thing has been used religiously ever since!

❤️ Every time they go the the car to go home, Frisk has to be checked by an adult (not either of the skelebros, they are WAY to lenient on this one) to make sure that they don’t have any stow away sea critters. One too many times of Frisk trying to keep a pet crab.

❤️ They take swimming lessons from Undyne! There were only a couple of misunderstandings over wether or not a humans could breathe underwater, but its all been sorted out! They’re doing really well!

❤️ They refuse to learn how to dive. Undyne has been trying to teach them for MONTHS now. It’s cannon ball or nothing, and they’re determined to keep it that way.

Flowey

❤️ Back when he was Asriel, he’d wanted to see the ocean. They don’t exactly have HUGE bodies of water in the underground like that, basically only the river. And no one swims in the river. Add in Chara’s talk of mermaids and their stories about lakes and skipping stones and all that.... It had been a big goal of his. Now that he’s there, and without the capabilities to swim or get in the water, and without the person who said they’d show him the surf.... it’s uh, it’s lost its appeal.

❤️ Frisk and Papyrus tried to get him to go out in one of those dog floaties. It looked pretty ridiculous and nearly tipped over a couple of times. Inevitably it was decided that it was just best to just keep him on the shore or in the shallows strapped to someone’s chest.

❤️ Usually he just sits on the shore with Paps, Frisk, or Toriel. He (begrudgingly) likes to make sand castles. He’s actually gotten quite good at them. Either that or eat nice cream.

❤️ Papyrus made him tiny sunglasses. He wears them every time they go to the beach.

❤️ When he does go into the water, he likes to stick his head under the serf and try to find fish. He actually managed to catch one in his mouth once, both impressive and terrifying.

Toriel

❤️ She is fond of the beach. Not so much the water, but she does enjoy the occasional swim with Frisk. Would probably like going out on a boat, though she has never tried it.

❤️ Usually while the rest of the family swims, she’s on the shore in her beach chair, reading a good book and keeping a watchful eye on her kids. She can usually get through half of the thing before its time to go home.

❤️ That being said, when she does go out in the water (usually to cool off or check on Frisk and/or Flowey) she is remarkably good at floating along. That, and she’s abit of a beast when it comes to X-treme monkey in the middle. That lady is huge and can use that height when she needs to. Also she has to shake off when she gets out of the water.

❤️ She ALWAYS has a beach bag on her, and in that beach bag is pretty much anything you’d ever hope to need. Pool toys, goggles, fresh water, extra sunscreen, at least three books, money, Your scocial security number, you name it.

❤️ Toriel’s usually the go to ‘hold tired swimmer gently’ person. And has done so for everyone in the main cast but Mettaton and Undyne. You could just fall asleep in those big ole’ arms.

Sans

❤️ He’s, as with most things, pretty nuetral about the ocean. Though, he adores the fact that it’s a day he can just slack off and relax in the sun (and sometimes water). He’s usually on the beach in a beach chair or sitting in a pool floaty, just drifting along. Sometimes he’s just latched onto Paps or Toriel, it’s kinda a wild card where he is at any given time.

❤️ He has never been sober ONCE while at the beach with the family. Mostly thanks to the fact that he somehow always has a martini in hand. No one knows where he gets it, let alone how it is almost always at least half way full. Needless to say, he’s at least buzzed by the end of the day.

❤️ Every time they go to the beach, he wears the most insane sunglasses. I’m talking Elton John style, but if they came from dollar tree. Normally it’s a pineapple pair, but they change on a whim. Once again, no ones entirely sure where they come from.

❤️ He briefly moved the illegal hotdog stand to beach, before the threat of getting fined was close enough to scadattle. This, the limited addition ‘Colddogs’ (now for 5g, wait he meant 50g, actually its 500-) became a thing. They were followed shortly by ‘Frozendogs’ (available in 50 flavors!)

❤️ The two never breathe a word of it, but every once in awhile Papyrus will rent a canoe and the two of them will go out on the water. They only do this at the dead of night, when the water is still and clear. Way out past the buoys, where it’s hard to see the shore, the moon and the stars bounce off the water in a shifting, funhouse esc reflection. Being out there, together, in practically silence..... It brings a lot of comfort to the two of them. It reminds Sans that yeah, this is real, and some things are worth remembering.

Papyrus

❤️ Paps is very fond of the shallows, but not a huge fan off big, open water. Unless he’s in the comfort of a canoe or boat. It’s just too big of a space. One can feel so... alone out there. But!! If he’s in chest or higher or with a group of close friends, he’s good!!

❤️ He bought special spandex gloves to wear in the water, ones that cover his fingers and palms without being skin (bone???) tight. They help him tread the water better, since he’s the opposite of buoyant. Which is definitely the only reason he bought them! No other reason in sight! Why would you even ask that?!

❤️ He, Undyne, and Frisk play ALOT of beach games, all far more extreme than their originals. The current turnomemt is over X-Treme volleyball, this time featuring antigravity magic and spears. Frisk is, somehow, winning.

❤️ A good portion of the time, he eats nice cream and makes sand castles with Flowey. Their creations are startlingly structurally sound and flourished. Though, they are also usually next to a life sized sand-Papyrus. No one knows where the sand came from.

❤️ He tried catch and realease shark fishing with Undyne once. It um, got interesting to say the least. Especially when they tried to use Papyrus as live bait. They only had to go to the ER twice!

Undyne (Aka my entire reason for writing this)

❤️ Undyne doesn’t love the ocean. She doesn’t even like the ocean. She ADORES the ocean. You can find her there almost every day after work, sun or storm. She never realized how much she would thrive in salt water until she was there, and now she can’t believe she lived without it. Its so raw and passionate and buetiful, and she’s just at home in the waves.

❤️ Her favorite time to be out is during a good storm, when the ocean is at her roughest. Undyne has learned how to boogie board and body surf since she got on the surface, and uses those huge waves to catch some air. She WANTS to learn how to surf, but has yet to find someone to teach her. Storms are also the best for letting the water roll over her and letting herself drift in the tides, both are pretty damn amazing feelings.

❤️ Because she can breathe and see under the water, she also likes to swim out really deep into the open ocean. No one in the family can follow, but it gives her a lot of time to think. Also, there are sometimes HUGE fish out there, which she greatly enjoys seeing and interacting with. She’s. she’s fought a tiger shark before. And probably other, larger and more dangerous things. (Also when she gets home, Alphys always talks about how her kisses taste like salt. Undyne loves it).

❤️ Before she became Asgore’s body gaurd, Undyne was pretty much out of work. Not a whole lot of people wanted a massive, sharp toothed, she-shark selling retail in their stores. But, being a fish and all, she got managed to get a job as a life gaurd over the summer! This ended in her actually giving swim lessons to a couple of kids (starting with Frisk)!! She is actually a pretty good trainer and still teaches a few kids every once in awhile over summer breaks.

❤️ Her and Asgore went on a fishing trip once! The boat nearly capsized, Undyne ended up going in to fish instead of using the pole, there were life lessons taught about patience, and Asgore got horrendously away sick. Needless to say, it was a good trip. They still have pictures on Asgore’s fridge!

Alphys

❤️ As much as her girlfriend loves it, she’s not actually a huge fan of the water. It’s overwhelming and dries out her scales, and when she’s in super deep it makes her really uncomfortable. She’s stared into oblivion before and, well, it’s not a good feeling. The deep sea reminds her of that.

❤️ That being said, she LOVES the beach itself. She could sun bathe for hours while Undyne is swimming. Just pop on her head phones, lay on the sand, and embrace her lizard heratage! Also, she likes to watch her hot girlfriend do hot things like catch fish in her teeth and throw skeletons, so it’s a win win.

❤️ Naturally, this means a lot of her and Undyne’s date end up at the beach one way or anouther. Every time they go now, Alphy makes a point of collecting a seashell. They all hang on a string over her bed, it’s her favorite part of the room.

❤️ More times than not, if the sand is particularly nice and warm, Alphys falls asleep on it. Like, hard core passed out asleep. She just loves the fluffy parts of the sand so much??? And it’s so comfortable??? And she’s gotten more than afew overheating from sleeping ALL day, but she can’t help herself. It’s just too cozy!

❤️ Her favorite thing about the ocean is always going to be seeing Undyne’s smile though. She loves it. She loves the way her girlfriend’s kisses taste after she’s been in the sea. She loves how content the girl is after a good swim, and how cuddly they get in the living room. She loves smelling the air and holding her hand and seeing the sun on the water. She wants to spend forever in her arms, on the sand, eating nice cream and watching the sun set.

Mettaton

❤️ So. He’s a robot. Alphys is currently working on waterproofing his body, but until then he’s shore bound. That doesn’t mean he won’t done his best sun hat and glasses, steal a life gaurd’s chair, and pose dramatically on the beach though!

❤️ Truth be told, he actually quite enjoys long walks on the beach. His boots are well protected enough to go a way into the water as well, so he takes them sometimes with Alphys. Also, night time on the beach holds SPECTACULAR song writing material! There’s something so inspirational about the atmosphere.

❤️ That being said, summer concerts are the bomb. Litterally. There’s pyrotechnics. He’s not as big a star as he was in the underground, but some local beach performances are well within his pay grade. The thrill of the stage! The cries of the people! The personality and connection to his adoring fans! The one time he crowd surfed! The fashion! It’s all just perfect!

❤️ He also frequents beach side shops, thanks to the atmosphere and outfit selection. One can NEVER go wrong with a floppy hat and a sheer coverup. It’s just impossible.

❤️ He relates WAY too hard to the little mermaid, both in the original story and Disney. There’s just something that hits too close to home about longing for humanity and a new, more comfortable body... He gets Ariel man, he gets her.

Asgore

❤️ He likes to go on long morning walks on the beach alone. There’s something comforting about the sun rise and the sound of the waves rolling around him. There’s something even more sweet about the rare conversations, only lasting a hello and small talk, all few and far between. Sometimes he finds himself wishing he had a dog to walk with him, but in the end decides against it. He’s been alone a long time, he can last one more day.

❤️ He really enjoys going shelling. Sometimes, he even likes to paint his finds and put them up in his windows. Frisk helps him, he likes that.

❤️ He’s become a vollenteer to help find and aid sea turtles’ hatch sites. He loves watching them hatch and get to the sea safely. Though he’s not supposed to, he’ll protect them from the gulls.

❤️ Thanks to being in so close to the sea, he had a brief phase of being rather in love with verities of seaweed and kelps. He tried to keep afew using water tanks, but could never quite get them right. Ah well, at least the petunias and roses are doing nicely.

❤️ He has a hard time reading or watching things about mermaids. They make him sad.

#undertale #whole cast #Asgores section made me tear up a lil ngl #I love him so much #Also!!! Fun fact of the day!!!#A lot of the stuff put on Undyne’s section are based on my own experiences and feelings! minus the breathing under water parts tho #I just. love the ocean man.#Can you tell I wanted to be a mermaid as a kid?#Because I wanted to SO bad #long post

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autisticsupervillain · 2 years ago

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It's Fictional Throwdown Friday!

This Week's Fighters...

Sans vs Reigen!

Conditions:

Reigen is amplified by Mob.

Scenario:

In an alternate universe where Reigen and Sans tied for Ultimate Tumblr Sexyman, it is decide that the victor will be determined by a fight to the death. Knowing that Sans is powerful, Reigen decides to ask Mob to amplify him with his powers like he did against the 7th Division of CLAW.

Analysis: Sans

The man. The myth. The legend. It's the King of Tumblr Sexymen himself: Sans.

Sans is the weakest enemy in the game. 1 attack. 1 defense. 1 hp. And despite all of that, he's still more than capable of kicking your ass. Firstly, his attacks directly hit both body and soul, to the point of completely destroying the soul in seconds as he ignores your physical durability. Secondly, his attacks come from nearly every direction simultaneously, putting the Player through hell as they have do dodge attacks that spring out of the ground beneath them, alongside lasers that spin all around them from his summonable Gaster Blasters. And third, Sans is remarkably fond of abusing his teleportation. Not to dodge mind you, as he's fast enough to side step everything Frisk throws at him, but to attack. He doesn't need to touch his foe to teleport them around the battlefield, even into his other attacks if need be.

It helps that he is easily the fastest monster in the Underground, capable of dodging attacks from a Sea Tea amplified Frisk even in his sleep, who can move at least 6x the speed of sound.

Source:

But the most damning ability in his arsenal is his KR. KARMA is a soul poison that infests the target's soul as soon as they make contact with any of Sans' attacks. The common theory is that it does more damage to the opponent depending on how many people they've killed but there actually isn't anything supporting that in canon. It just seems to be a soul poison that eats your soul away in seconds, though it is notably incapable of killing the target on its own.

He's still the weakest monster in the game. Monster Kid is stronger than he is. Sure, Sans should still be at least Wall Level, as that's how durability you'd have to be to survive falling into the Underground to begin with and even the weakest monsters can hurt Early Game Frisk, but that's still not even that superhuman. For all his memetic qualities, he's physically the weakest fight to appear on FTF thus far. Not to mention, his own apathy keeps him from fighting unless he absolutely has to and his laziness completely tanks his stamina.

Even with those factors though, Sans has earned his memetic reputation as a ballbustingly hard boss. When you hear those first few notes, you know you're fucked.

Analysis: Reigen

Do you believe in ghost stories? Are you afraid of the things that go bump in the night? Are you suffering from a curse, being tormented by yokai, or been possesd by an evil spirit? Who you gonna call?

Reigen Arataka! The greatest psychic of the 21st century! Only, not really. Reigen has no special powers, aside from some extraordinary charisma and an obscene amount of luck. He is a con artist who uses his agency, Spirits and Such consultations, to scam the superstitious into giving him his money in exchange for back massages and other not-actually-supernatural services. Unfortunately, he lives in a world where psychics and such do actually exist and as such, he needs an out for when he does actually meet a haunted client. That's what his assistant, Shigeo "Mob" Kageyama, the actual greatest psychic of the 21st century, is for.

That's not to say that Reigen is exploiting the young man... mostly. While Mob fully believes Reigen's claims of being a gifted psychic, Reigen goes to great lengths to instill a strong sense of compassion and ethics in his young ward. Mob has taken Reigen's advice of "your powers don't make you better than anyone else" with him to heart for his entire life and places his faith in his master's judgement for good reason.

That's also not to say that Reigen is helpless without Mob. While he may not be psychic or even superhuman, Arataka's quick wit and snake oil salesmen charm have gotten him out of situations that would've easily killed most normal people. Such as the time when he infiltrated CLAW, a Psychic Supremacist Terrorist Organization, by convincing every staff member he met that he was the organization's leader in order to rescue Mob. He even managed to retain their loyalty after the jig was up by promising them better lives for themselves than what CLAW can offer. He's convinced even high ranking members of CLAW that their loyalty is misplaced and their ideology is a wasteful and stupid one, successfully turning their lives around and inspiring them to be loyal to him instead.

Reigen has tricked some of the most powerful psychics in the world into believing that he's far stronger than them just through sheer force of his overwhelming confidence. That's an impressive feat in itself when considering most physics can sense he has no powers, but it becomes even more impressive when considering he's pulled this trick on Mob himself for most of his life, despite Mob being easily the most powerful psychic in the world by a huge margin. Reigen has landed hits on even the highest ranking members of CLAW, including the leader himself, by bluffing his way into close range and even managed to determine that a young girl was possessed before even an entire room full of psychics could.

This is backed up by Reigen's ridiculous amounts of luck, ensuring that even without Mob he gets out of most situations unscathed. For example, when bluffing a couple of scammers into believing he had powers, it just so happened that he actually was being haunted by an evil spirit without knowing, causing him to pass the haunting onto them while threatening them, which added to his credibility in their eyes.

Sometimes, however, even a silver tongue like Reigen can't get through without a fight, and in those cases he has one last trick up his sleeve. When trying to keep Mob from killing anyone while rescuing him from CLAW, Reigen inadvertently convinced the young boy that he'd handle everything, causing Mob to subconsciously channel 1000% of his power into Reigen through sheer force of adoration for his master.

As a result of this, Reigen was temporarily embued with all the powers that Mob has when going all out 100%. This includes the ability to see and hurt ghosts, detect the power of other psychics through their auras, utilize powerful telekinesis to fly and through around buildings, and generate forcefields.

These abilities alone allowed him to effortlessly curbstomp the highest ranking members of CLAW's 7th division, but he should logically have access to the rest of Mob's powers as well (sans those limited to his ???% mode, as that's its own thing entirely). These would include the ability to erase ghosts down to their very individual particles through exorcism, as well as survive direct attacks to his soul. Reigen should be able to no-sell mind control on the scale of thousands, as even a casual Mob can do so without effort, as well as astral project his soul out of his body in order to use all the powers of a ghost. As a spirit, he would logically be noncorporial and invisible to all non-psychics, as well as be able to regenerate from even idividual molecules like the evil spirit Dimple can. He can possess people as a spirit, and resist being possessed in turn. The only problem with most of these powers is... they don't last.

Reigen had Mob's powers for, at most, ten minutes. Not only is he highly unskilled at using them, they don't last long enough for him to even demonstrate most what's been listed above. He just has those powers by virtue of having all of Mob's powers. This isn't helped by the fact that Reigen's unrelenting confidence and hunger for money and fame can get him into trouble just as often as it gets him out of it. For example, these traits singlehandedly led to him alienating Mob from his employ by trying to keep him on too tight a leash, which led directly to Reigen exposing himself as a fraud on live tv. But, his quick thinking also helped him clear his name with a little bit of Mob's help, which shows the duality of his character well.

With the boost from Mob, Reigen is amplified by 1000% of Mob's gratitude, meaning he should be stronger and faster than the feats demonstrated by Mob's 100% mode. This includes the time Mob created a massive swirl of clouds in the sky with 8.5 Gigatons of tnt behind it.

Source:

This would also make Reigen faster than the time Mob moved 20 kilometers in 10 seconds, putting him at above Mach 6:

With or without Mob's back up, Reigen is one of the craftiest con men you'll ever met. He may not be the greatest psychic of the 21st century, but you'll certainly believe he is by the time he's done with you.

Throwdown Mashup:

youtube

Throwdown Breakdown:

I can't believe I'm about to say this... but Reigen honestly has all the tools he needs to comfortably take on Sans Undertale.

First off, stats. These two run dead even in terms of speed, both being unquantifiably above Mach 6. In terms of attack potency, Reigen one shots with his several gigatons of attack power, regardless of killing intent or LOVE. Typical Sans match-up fair. For once, however, Sans doesn't do the same. Reigen is the first opponent Sans has fought who actually resists his ability to destroy souls, meaning that alone won't one-shot him.

Of course, that's not the full story. Frisk resists soul manipulation too, but Sans can still kill them with mere seconds of contact. KR, being a soul poison, is going to shred Reigen's soul to pieces, so he won't be able to just tank everything as he did against the 7th Division.

Having said that, I still think Reigen has plenty of tools at his disposal to deal with those problems. While Sans's attacks are intangible, as they keep going through Frisk when no other attack in the game does so, Mob's barriers can repeal attacks from ghosts, so Reigen's should work just fine. Blue Mode meanwhile gets countered by Reigen just using his telekinesis on himself to keep from getting rag dolled. This means that Reigen effectively counters everything Sans can feasibly do to him. While Reigen is largely unskilled with his own powers, he's seen Mob use barriers and telekinesis enough times to know those are tricks he can pull.

At that point, Sans's best option is to run out the clock, but even that's questionable. You can't really dodge telekinesis, and even when considering teleportation, Sans's stamina so shoddy he may very well pass out before hitting the ten minute mark. And that's assuming even can dodge the huge AOE Reigen's attacks would have.

And all that's assuming the fight even starts at all. It's not out of character for Sans to chat before fighting and talking his way out of fights is Reigen's whole bag. While he likely couldn't bluff Sans into surrendering, as Sans is willing to go against odds he knows full well are impossible with the right motivation, convincing Sans that killing isn't worth it for some stupid award is both entirely in character and basically guaranteed to work. Reigen can be remarkably pascifistic at times and Sans is no bloodthirsty killer. He only tries to kill anyone when the entire universe is at stake.

With or without Mob's powers... Reigen hardcounters Sans. And really, that is both completely hilarious and entirely on brand for everyone and everything involved in this stupid poll.

This Throwdown's Winner is...

Reigen Arataka!

#Youtube #fictional throwdown fridays #reigen arakata #sans #undertale #mob psycho 100

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ticklishshenanigansau · 3 years ago

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Another small bonus chapter for your request~ =3

Gang up: In this Together

It was quite the notorious fact that a strong affinity for puzzles was instilled in monsterkind. Some embraced it more than others.

Only so many crosswords, jumbles, and jigsaws could suppress the fire in Papyrus to create — instinct and ideas pressing him to a near frenzy until the living room was torn apart and rearranged into a maze of pillowy DEMISE. Pillows because Toriel absolutely refused to let him use spike traps.

“Please, just ONE? Frisk is a growing girl! A healthy amount of spike-laden puzzle-solving is VITAL to proper childhood experience!”

“My child has already faced countless hazards while freeing us all. I will not have her health endangered in her own home!”

“But home is the BEST place for one’s health to BE endangered!”

Papyrus did not win the argument.

It didn’t help his mood to find Sans disrespecting his labyrinthine masterpiece by precariously napping on one column of cushions.

“SANS!!”

The smaller skeleton barely shifted on his perch. “…zzzzzz….”

“Stop buzzing and get down from there! You could fall and hurt yourself!”

One socket cracked open, a shimmering eyelight slyly peering down. “oh. …well, guess it’s a good thing i’m home. best place to be in danger an’ all.”

Sockets narrowing, Papyrus felt for his brother’s SOUL, wrapping it in blue magic.

Sans did nothing to resist as he was carefully lowered to his feet on the ground, even looking smugly content in not having to exert any effort in getting down. “you’re always lookin’ out for me, bro. i appreciate it. hey, where’d you find all these crazy pillows?” He eyed the mismatched fabrics and horribly tacky knitwork with approval.

“Monster’s Macy’s was having a mega-sale…. Ohhh, but I do wish I could add some spikes and flames and pits! It’s just a totally normal, boring maze without a little flare!”

“heh, well, i have an idea how to add a little excitement.”

“YOU DO??”

Sans’s grin grew, and he pulled his hands from his pockets, lightly clawing his fingers. “a hidden creature lurking within, distracting unwitting humans with a monstrous touch.”

Papyrus snickered. “Nyehee! That’s not a bad idea brother! So you’ll hide in the maze until Frisk solves it?”

“sure. my rate’s forty gold an hour, but i’ll give ya the family discount price of thirty-eight g.”

Papyrus gave Sans a deadpan glare before he pounced, grabbing one of Sans’s arms and fiercely digging into the side of his ribs. “I’m sure there’s room for negotiation!”

“gaahaaa—! aahaaokayhee! th-thihirty six! ahhahaa!” Tugging and twisting his trapped wrist, Sans tried to dance himself away from the harsh tickles, unable to get far enough out of reach. His free hand flew to Papyrus’s middle, scraping frantically across his spine in broad strokes.

The lankier skeleton stumbled back in shock, toppling over — thankfully on a pile of spare cushions — not expecting Sans to actually fight back. And certainly not this fiercely. “NYAAHAA—! S-SAHANS!” He arched his back, shaking his head wildly, aiming harmless slaps at his attacker’s hands.

Taking advantage of his brother’s surprise, Sans kicked up the intensity, latching onto Papyrus’s hips and squeezing. “eheheh! ya’know, if the price is still too much, you can compensate me with free lunches at grillby’s….”

“NEVER!!” Papyrus shouted, making a calculated grab for a weak point on Sans’s back.

Gasping, Sans threw this shoulders up, arms curling toward his chest defensively, giving his brother enough time to turn the tables again, the fight quickly spiraling into a rowdy back-and-forth.

Returning from a movie with her sister, Frisk opened the door to the sight of a grand pillow fortress; built near to ceiling height, with blankets stretched over the top to form an enclosing canopy. The sound of two happily cachinnating skeletons rang out from somewhere on the other side.

She and Denise shared a look of excitement, ducking straight into the maze together with no hesitation.

Though there hadn’t been a ton of room to work with, Papyrus was a master craftmonster of twists and turns, utilizing the darkness and a few well-placed mirrors to confound the sensibilities of space and direction.

Halfway through, they nearly stumbled over Angel who had found a cozy little spot to relax in this strange den her owner had made.

“Oh, did you get stuck in the maze?” Frisk asked.

Angel twitched her tail in amusement. “Stuck? No way! I just wanted to watch what Papyrus was doing while he was making this, and I really like it in here! It’s like a cave!”

“Leave it to Papyrus to do something this crazy,” Denise chuckled. “Anyway, any idea what’s going on with those two out there?”

“They started arguing, well, not a serious argument or anything. I think they just wanted an excuse to tickle each other.”

“Haha! Sounds about right. Let’s go say hello, shall we?”

The other two enthusiastically approved.

It wasn’t actually difficult to find the exit, especially with the guiding gales of laughter to keep them from getting turned around. The trio emerged to see the skeletal siblings grappling with each other on the floor, apparently oblivious to the rest of the world as they poked and swiped at each other.

“Ooh, who do you think we should help?” Frisk asked, excited to join in on the fun.

Denise grinned from ear to ear. “Ourselves.”

Clearly agreeing with the older human, Angel hopped between the two, able to brush along a few sensitive spots on both as physically closely locked as they were in battle.

Startled, Papyrus shrieked and Sans yelped, the two rolling away at the new, fluffy invasion.

Frisk and Denise were ready for this however, tackling a skeleton each and crowding them back together until they were spine-to-spine. Soft fingers always proved effective weapons against fidgety bones.

“ohhno! ahahaa! nahaow i’m nahat gonna get pahaaiiid!” Sans lamented, batting at the stubby digits breaching his ribs.

“YOU SAHAHOLVED MY PUZZLE!” Papyrus squealed, his face lit in joy and blush while practiced nails delicately skittered up his spine.

Angel purred contentedly, swishing her tail and kneading with her plush paws, knowing very well how to make the monsters squeak and twitch in such entertaining ways. Her pupils grew, taking in all the stimulating movement, fueling her mischievous spirit.

“gheh~heh! noho~ohnoho!” Sans whined as the girls tangled limbs over each other to get at both brothers at once, their mix in styles throwing his skull for a spin.

Papyrus fared no better, perhaps even worse, thumping a leg and howling when a small hand squeezed his hip and a slender one slipped under his arm.

Suddenly, a larger figure loomed over the tussling group. Having navigated the maze with little trouble, save for her horns getting caught in the blanket ceiling a few times, Toriel watched her family fondly for a few more moments before lowering herself to a regal sit, catching the flailing pairs of feet so she could begin to painstakingly count each bony toe.

“ohhaahaaa! gh~ahaaiiiee…~! tohoriheee no—!” “HAHAVE MEHEHERCYYYHEE!!”

“Did you think I would just ignore you both making all this fuss?” she teased, easily able to hold their legs down, making it infinitely easier for the other ticklers to hone their own techniques. Utilizing her tail to flick and brush along their captive soles, she refused to relent on the unbearably gentle grasp and wiggling of their toes.

Overcome by the jolting flood of sensations, Sans and Papyrus dissolved into hysterical, overlapping laughter, slumping weakly against each other. And yet, because the focus was spread between them, neither became truly overwhelmed. The younger brother’s thrashing, and the older’s protests seemed all purely reflexive, not in a dire hurry to escape the flurry of fingers, claws, and fur.

The tickling finally began to slow, but the affectionate touches did not. Both brothers found themselves engulfed in loving hugs as they sighed away the remaining giggles from their systems.

“We should totally have a sleepover in the maze cave!” Frisk proposed.

“Hmm, I suppose as it is the weekend … and because Papyrus worked so very hard on it, I don’t see why not,” Toriel agreed.

Papyrus seemed to instantly recover from his fatigue, jumping up eagerly. “Oh! I WILL GET THE SLEEPING BAGS!”

Sans propped himself up, but otherwise stayed put, still catching his breath. “heh… you better watch out, kiddo. i hear that a tickle monster lives in there….”

Denise couldn’t help a sly smirk. “I think we know exactly how to handle any potential tickle monsters that try to get the jump on us, Sansy…~”

The others giggled as Sans blushed.

#Ticklish Shenanigans #Undertale #Side Story #Tickling #Sans #Papyrus #Toriel #Frisk #Denise #Angel

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