#flawed dumbledore

[metalomagnetic]

After seeing about 50 'Dumbledore is evil' and 'everything is Dumbledore's fault' and 'but why didn't Dumbledore did this or the other' posts in a row, I find myself wishing Dumbledore just fucked off to somewhere nice and sunny in '81, early retirement (or is it early if he's already 100?) and washed his hands off magical Britain entirely.

Some of y'all sound like Fudge with your Dumbledore bashing. I wish, at least, Dumbledore would have left when Fudge and that corrupt as hell Ministry did their best to ruin his name and his image.

Pack up his ancient shit and move to a nice beach somewhere, with his pet bird and a huge bag of candy.

This way, my man Voldemort could have won in like five minutes, and Harry would be dead, Voldemort would rule supreme, Bella would keep being the queen she is, and my little Voldemort shaped heart would be happy.

But no, Dumbledore stayed, orchestrated Voldemort's downfall by giving Harry step by step instructions, gave up his own life in the process, made sure Harry would keep his, because apparently that's what 'evil men' do instead of retiring in comfort.

Not only Harry wouldn't have survived without Dumbledore, but he most likely wouldn't even exist without Dumbledore. Because, you know, this evil man is also the one that took down another dark lord back in the day; if Grindelwald would have won, there would be no Lily, most likely. Thus no Harry.

But yes, go get your 'Dumbledore is evil' badges- I hear Fudge and Umbridge are leaders of the hate club, I'm sure they'll receive new followers with open arms. Draco is probably the secretary, because he hates Dumbledore, too, and he likes making badges.

Also, can someone explain to me how Dumbledore, the only gay man in canon, became the fandom's resident homophobe? That's just weird, my friends. Very weird, to say the least. It gets even nastier when you say he 'groomed' students. That's an awful thing to throw around about a gay dude, you know?

There are so many reasons one can dislike Dumbledore for, but you do have the option to not like a flawed character without turning them into a ridiculous caricature of themselves.

P.S: I am not talking about fics. Write your fics and your characters however you want, whatever makes you happy. Your fic is your domain, and you do whatever you want in there, hopefully with no asshole to attack you in the comments. Same with reading- read what you want, bashing or no bashing. Have the best of fun!

I am talking about these 'meta' type posts on social media, tagged with "Albus Dumbledore", where they act as if canon Dumbledore was legit evil, incompetent or homophobic.

[acewitch-writes]

I love Canon Remus and all of his flaws. Enough of this "Casanova of Gryffindor Tower" BS, Remus is the cowardly lion of Gryffindor tower. He values bravery because it is something that he lacks and yet still strives to be. He has an ingrained sense of shame and self-loathing and an inferiority complex that stems from society's contempt and marginalization towards Lycanthropy, a condition he was cursed with from a very young age. He wasn't a leader, he was a follower. A blind follower who believed to his core that he was unworthy of love and respect because of what he was.

Which opens the door to what I believe to be Remus' greatest flaw: His unwavering, unquestioning devotion to Albus Dumbledore.

I think Remus saw Dumbledore as the perfect encapsulation of Good. He was everything that Remus desperately wanted to be, everything that society was determined to believe a werewolf could never be. And maybe, if Remus could earn (and cling to) Dumbledore's favor and make him proud, he would prove to the world and himself that he is Good, too, in spite of his lifelong curse.

Remus felt that he owed Dumbledore a debt he could never hope to repay for allowing this chronically ill little boy into his school when no werewolf before him had ever been given such an opportunity. So many of Remus' choices in canon stem directly from this imagined debt that he had dedicated his life to paying. Hell, he didn't even hold a grudge against Snape for OUTING HIM to the entire wizarding world simply because Dumbledore trusted him.

Remus trusted Dumbledore wholeheartedly. And Dumbledore personally saw to Harry's placement with the Dursleys. Why should Remus have considered, for even a moment, that Harry wasn't safe? Certainly far safer than he would have been with a monster in close proximity, as Remus believed himself to be. In his mind, staying away from Harry was what was best for Harry. Until Dumbledore needed a favor, that is.

It's reductive to suggest that Remus failed Harry (and by extension, James) for putting his trust in Dumbledore to do right by Harry. James and Sirius trusted Dumbledore, too. They all did. Stripping away all of the nuance and blaming the abuse Harry suffered on Remus is simply unfair. NO ONE helped Harry, not even those who were fully equipped to do so, and Remus was the farthest thing from being equipped to take that on, what with being an impoverished werewolf living in a society that reviles his very existence. The only person who could have saved Harry from the abuse was the very man that placed him in that home, the very man that Remus revered with blind conviction.

[moderndayamymarch]

take your son, your only son, whom you love

[fluffyneondinosaur]

I’m in Slytherin, and one thing I’ve never understood is if you went to a school where you were mercilessly bullied and tortured no one stood up for you or protected you, would you not leave after your fifth year and never return to that awful school. Even if you were a genius of said school?

I guess that Sev and the rest of the slytherins stayed for two reasons, either Hogwarts was so prestigious that their families would shun them if they left (the purebloods), or because they had nowhere else to go (Sev).

I mean, Severus was 15 (16?) during his 5th year, and I believe 16 in the scene after his OWLs. Since he lived in an industrial-style mill town, and he was far more of an intellectual person, I suspect that he didn't have a summer job or anything, or even if he did, it would likely be very low paying, and the money would be used to buy his school supplies every year. If he left Hogwarts he'd either have to go back to his abusive father, or live on the streets like a common muggle (like his father who he hates). While he'd have his OWLs by then, he's still a minor, so he can't do magic outside of school.

So basically tldr: the slytherins either wanted to maintain good relations with their pureblood families, or had nowhere else to go if they left Hogwarts, and they likely thought that if they stayed they could become great and powerful and such, exactly why Voldemort found it so easy to groom them into becoming his followers.

[apicelladonna]

They look so angry at you, Albus. Why is that? Why does everyone look at you like that?

(Albus Dumbledore, Ariana Dumbledore ft. Gellert Grindelwald, Abeforth Dumbledore and the rest of the wizarding world I guess-)

[ronweasleys-world]

i dont think remus is a coward, i think he had trouble confronting his fatal flaw (he has lived a life where he's hated at every turn, which leads to a self-hatred that runs so deep it convinces him not only that he has to compromise himself and his morals to keep the people who like him around him, but also to him genuinely believing that leaving tonks and his unborn son is legitemately the best, kindest thing to do, because otherwise he'll wreck them that much more just by existing), which is incredibly human. his bravery shows in every other aspect of his life, not least of all the fact that he chose to fight, actively and several times, for a world that hates him. he lost everything in the first war, his life only got worse, and he doesnt think twice about fighting again in the second one and in the final battle simply because it's the right thing to do and he wants the world to be a better place. that's not only brave, but as you point out, highlights the tragedy of his life and who he chose to be despite it. (and the blind devotion is a dumb thing to pin on remus when literally the entire wizarding world is "blindly" devoted to dumbledore. even voldemort thinks of dumbles as the paragon of good. it's not a "remus flaw", it's a deliberate thematic statement from the HP books bc the point of the seventh book isnt that they were wrong to trust dumbles, it's that everyone's deeply flawed, even, or especially so, our heroes, and that's ok and human and realizing it and dealing with it is a part of growing up and maturing)

I just wanna say i got so excited when i saw you 'asked', so thank you for that!

Remus is my second fav harry potter character, first before i truly discovered my love for Ron. I 100% agree with everything you said, and tbh i do not truly think of Remus as a coward, that just seems to be the general consensus when people talk about Remus and his flaws, so i guess i kinda just ran with and what people are saying, (and to some degree, i do kinda agree with what they say. Kinda)

I will however, say that this cowardliness that people pin on Remus is often to hold him in a negative light, and I often find it occurring when people slight him for not being there for Harry more (which is a whole different matter entirely, that i think i have a somewhat controversial opinion on).

Anyway, the way Remus continues with him life after all that has happened to him and still has the ability to be kind and good, is one of the reasons i actually adore that man, and i do not think the 'cowardliness' takes away from the goodness within him at all. I completely agree and understand why he is the way he is, of course he is going to run when he is scared, because let's be honest who is he gonna turn too? He has spent the entirety of his life afraid, persecuted and grief stricken.

I pointed out the devotion to Dumbledore because it kind of differs from the rest of the wizarding worlds sentiments. Remus did not think he would get to Hogwarts, get that education and meet amazing friends who did not care for what he was, and Dumbledore gave him that, Dumbledore offered him a job, and have him opportunities that were otherwise unavailable to him. I only point it out because as one of his flaws, it leaves him blind. Not only to Dumbledore, but to his friends also. He did not want to go against them in fear they would not be his friend anymore. It is difficult to go against your friends, and even more so for Remus.

I also do not have the opinion that Dumbledore is this evil manipulator, and this 'blind' devotion to him is necessarily a bad thing, it just has the potential to be.

I also don't necessarily believe Remus is a coward, sometimes that just feels like the 'best' word to describe it. When he ran away from Tonk's, that was a moment of weakness, and it would be 'silly' to shame a man at one of his worst moments. What does speak volumes more to Remus and his character, is that he went back. He realised his error and fixed it immediately, and i think that says more to who he is.

This was a whole tangent, and i enjoyed writing it! so thanks <3

[firendgold]

Pk now I want to hear tour rant about how Harrydore is bettter than Grindeldore. Bring it 🤣❤️

ohhh, this one's easy. I've been in this fandom on and off since 2006, and seen how Harry, Albus and Gellert were written pre- and post-'Dumbledore closet interview'. cracks knuckles

got to hit you with that readmore though. and it's going to be in two parts. I rambled again. ^^

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(...'rambled' is perhaps an understatement.)

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grindeldore vs harrydore

grindeldore

the tl;dr of the below is the following sentences, and then I'll get into it. My philosophy on gr*ndeld*re extends to all other ships in all other fandoms, especially HP: if it's not an AU and you have to excessively mischaracterize Character A to get them to 'fit' with Character B, then it's not a good ship, canon or not. Albus Dumbledore is quite often mischaracterized in order to 'fit' or 'keep' him with Gellert Grindelwald.

here's my problems with how gr*ndeld*re is most often portrayed:

Inconsistency within canon. JKR is partly mostly to blame for this (because she has contradicted her original 2007 statement in the present day with more interviews in the 2010s and with the Fantastic Beasts movies), but the first problem is: gr*ndeld*re was originally an unrequited ship. The original statement was that Albus was dazzled by Gellert's power, his presence, their similarities, their shared ideals... but That Woman wasn't explicit on whether Gellert ever returned his feelings. But based on her quotes where she says "falling in love can blind you to an extent" and that [Dumbledore] was "terribly, terribly let down" by the result of that whirlwind relationship, I think it's safe to assume that her original idea of Gellert cared far more for seeing his grander plans realized than for the needs and feelings of his 'equal'. And yet... in fandom, they are most often portrayed instead as star-crossed lovers torn apart by 'conflicting ideals'.

The second problem is that in the avalanche of fics and art that have come from The Reveal, the original lesson (/moral...?) behind the reveal of gr*ndeld*re, and how it shaped Albus as an adult, leader, and progressive, just... got lost. Completely lost. The whole point of it was to show that even Albus (supposed 'paragon of goodness' until book 7 showed the fandom that he is a regular human being) can make 'relatable' mistakes like... you know... being friends with a fascist. Being in love with a fascist, even. Thanks to said retcon interviews and the new movies (and even before that tbh) the fandom has since: overexaggerated Albus' new clay feet to the point of bashing him, idolized Grindelwald's red flag traits and ideals to the point where he has become the new "Tom Riddle was just misunderstood!" guy, and twisted that lesson/moral/whatever to mean that actually Albus and Gellert were tragically kept away from each other by an itsy bitsy little difference of opinion. A minor little fight. Casual death of your sick sister. Haven't we all been there?

The fandom diminishing the real reasons why Albus and Gellert eventually clashed, were destined to clash, is bad enough. What's worse is the opposite end. Some Dumbledore-bashing fans go the other way and paint present-day Dumbledore with the same brush as Grindelwald, even going so far as to say he still supports The Greater Good even though his entire character is literally built on being the opposite of the pro-magic, anti-Muggle philosophy. Albus has also been painted in some fics and even meta discussions as someone who 'regrets' his past not because his sister died and his brother is estranged from him, but just because his ex-boyfriend is in prison and he maybe kind of regrets not going full fascist with him. Like... bruh. NO. There are people who ship gr*ndeld*re just because they feel like Grindelwald, the worst dark wizard in the world, the reason why Voldemort is only a minor league little lord in comparison, is an appropriate "punishment" for the character they already dislike and thus misinterpret. (Side note: I'm not sure if I'm in a worse hell watching Albus' character get whitewashed for fascism or demonized so he can be a miserable lonely gay.)

Albus diminishes himself to meet Gellert's needs. An in-universe problem this time instead of a meta/RL one: Albus and Gellert were lovers, yes, but in order to be so, Albus had to actively start neglecting his siblings (since in Aberforth's words he was 'doing all right' taking care of them before Gellert showed up) and leaning more into anti-Muggle sentiment. He put all his energy into what for most of the magical world was a wild goose chase after some fairy-tale items. (Remember, most wixen don't give a shit about the Deathly Hallows, or think they're even real.) He became the person Gellert needed/desired most. Albus became a version of himself that he despised later in his life and after his death.

Relationships often include the members changing, and it's easy for even the most devoted partners to fall out of love if they change and are now too different from one another, or one person changes and the other... doesn't. After Ariana died, Albus chose to become a different person and champion the same people he and his family once despised. He chose to stay away from Gellert, whether he called it cowardice or principles or whatever else. And his choice put him in conflict with Gellert, who at sixteen refused to change course or rethink his ideals even when his choices led to the death of a magical person (the type of person he supposedly prizes above all others). His magical boyfriend's magical sister, even. And we see no sign that Gellert changed, repented, or considered Albus until decades later, at the very end of his life—far too late.

Healthy relationships require give-and-take, sacrificing for your partner in things big and small. For high-stakes relationships like Albus and Gellert's (queer in the 1800s, sweet Merlin), that is even more true. During that steamy summer of 1899, it was Albus who did all the sacrifcing/giving and Gellert who did all the taking. Gellert may have entertained the idea of bringing Ariana along on his quest with Albus (we don't know), but Aberforth was right to say that it would have been torture for her—and no alternate idea was brought up that would prioritize the wellbeing of Albus' siblings while he was away. And in the moment of required reciprocity when Albus was at his lowest, Gellert left him behind and went off to go rule the world. Not even the most diehard shipper can argue against the fact that when Ariana died, Grindelwald left.

This problem is even more personal/biased than the other ones. Albus and Gellert parted ways in 1899. They didn't see each other again until the duel in 1945 (because fuck Fantastic Beasts, the scripts don't even make fucking sense). Albus defeated Gellert, put him in prison, and then went on living for another fifty-two years. And That Woman expects me to believe that Albus never had a relationship with anyone before Gellert, and never even looked at another wizard afterward? In 52 years, he was one-and-done? He never once fell in love with other people, whether or not he fully trusted them/let them in? Be serious. Pull the other one. It's not realistic, and it doesn't speak to the kind of man Albus Dumbledore is. He may not have found a man to check the same boxes Gellert did, but he wouldn't arguably be looking for someone too similar to his old flame. He might not trust them unconditionally or be the Perfect Partner for them (bc whew traumaaa), but there would be other people for Albus in a realistic Magical Britain (even discounting time travel shenanigans). Before the reveal, the most popular people to ship Albus with were Minerva, Alastor, and Elphias Doge; these options are still arguably more valid. Albus Dumbledore loves love, he champions love, and he doesn't think he deserves it after his sins, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't go looking. It's mind-boggling to me that with all the well-deserved disavowing of JKR following her anti-trans hate (and her shameless pandering to the same people calling her a witch poisoning their children's minds decades ago), that some people still treat her words about Albus and Gellert's relationship and its effects on Albus in particular as gospel. I sure don't. (Especially because she said he became "asexual" after His One Gay Experience when like. That's not. What asexuality is??? And ace gay people exist???) Whether you count the FB movies or not, there are still decades of Albus' life that are a mystery, and I refuse to believe he closed his heart and caged his dick for all of them.

IMPORTANT END NOTE: These observations obviously do not apply to all gr*ndeld*re shippers. Some people genuinely do like both characters, characterize them correctly, and still want to see them together for reasons. I'm not going to judge them. I ship a frigging time travel age gap ship, how the fuck could I. And I'm also aware that a lot of fics/art are made to color in between the lines of what we don't know in the fandom, bringing Albus and Gellert together during the mystery years, or making one wizard better for the other to address all the ship baggage. I just can't join them because of how rarely that occurs (and, admittedly, how much I personally can't see it). You would not believe how many fics and discussions I've seen that lionize Grindelwald and treat Dumbledore like an accessory, or completely mischaracterize Albus' motivations, intentions, and actions, and then put him with "the other Big Bad". UGH.

Most of the time, I see gr*ndeld*re the ship hurting Albus the individual. It's very rare to find an iteration where Albus is not bearing the consequences of Gellert's choices, Gellert's actions, Gellert's mistakes and harm done. I think Albus deserves better than to be Gellert's accessory just because he loved him deeply long ago.

okay. whew. that was a lot.

a character limit prevents me from continuing here, so the second half of this versus will go elsewhere, sorry!

[rynnthefangirl]

I just saw someone make the take that Dumbledore is a worse person than Voldemort and the true villain of the series.

You know what? I am now a Dumbledore stan. #1 Dumbledore defender. Y’all have taken this anti-Dumbledore fad too far. You got beef with him you got beef with me.

[iamnmbr3]

#literally#its so horrible#dumbledore is a weed planting himself in people around him and strangling them from the inside out#but yeah best guy ever via @toxik-angel

Yeah it really hit me on my reread how quick Dumbledore is to condemn Tom Riddle and write him off as an unsalvageable danger after their very first interaction.

Tom Riddle has clearly had a pretty horrible life in the orphanage and has every reason not to trust adults. When he makes the mistake of having a genuine emotional reaction to learning the truth (well some of it) about himself Dumbledore reacts with disgust and suspicion (just the reactions Tom is used to getting from everyone around him).

Tom responds to this by immediately adopting an unemotional, pleasant and respectful affect instead. His life has really only taught him two options for dealing with people - aggression and compliance. He realizes pretty quickly that his powers are no match for Dumbledore's at the moment and that he cannot frighten or compel him into doing anything. So his only option is compliance.

He tries to do and be what Dumbledore wants - he controls his emotions completely, calls him "sir" and tries to give him what he wants. He can't win though, as Dumbledore takes this as further evidence of Tom's inherently corrupt and manipulative nature.

Then Tom asks to be able to do his shopping alone and Dumbledore just immediately agrees. He also points this out to Harry as more evidence of how Tom was already secretive and incapable of forming normal human relationships and says he wanted to keep an eye on him for others' safety. But c'mon. Tom has probably never had an adult he can trust ever in his entire life. The idea of someone taking care of him is alien to him. And Dumbledore has done nothing to earn his trust. It's not that surprising that he wants to be self reliant. No one has shown him he can be anything different.

Another adult might've given him a bit more of a grace period - or, you know, any grace period. They might've actually offered a little more forcefully to accompany him - perhaps tempting him with a promise of teaching him about the wizarding world - and tried to build a relationship and provide some support and guidance. Even if he could be written off that quickly as truly evil that would still be a prudent step to take since gaining his trust would also make it a lot easier to keep an eye on Tom for the sake of others' safety.

I think Dumbledore believes in the power of love but he doesn't really feel it the way he knows others do. He is cold and detached. Just as he didn't want to deal with the reality of the care his sister Ariana needed, he also doesn't want to deal with the reality of the impact and trauma Tom's upbringing so far has had on him and how his life has shaped him into who he is. He just wants to write him off as 'lol evil' and absolve himself of any responsibility for providing any type of care or support or doing any work to build a trusting relationship.

Tom didn't worship the ground Dumbledore walked on and looked at him with distrust and suspicion and Dumbledore basically immediately responded by mentally putting him in the 'to be punished' category.

This doesn't mean that if not for Dumbledore Tom definitely wouldn't have become Voldemort. But the fact remains that regardless of Tom's actions and nature, Dumbledore's actions - his callous indifference, his complete reliance on fear and lies as his only tools to control or relate to Tom, his strange eagerness to jump to conclusions - were wrong. Look at the contrast between Dumbledore writing Tom off at 10 for being a little messed up by the horrible life he's had vs Harry offering a fully fledged Lord Voldemort pity and a chance at remorse in the end of book 7 during their final duel.

If another adult - like Aberforth or Hagrid or a grown Harry had walked through the door that day in the orphanage - I can't imagine them acting the way Dumbledore did. And I wonder if anything would be different.

When did Dumbledore start his giant grudge against Tom Riddle? What triggered it?

From what we see in the memory of Dumbledore and Tom Riddle's first meeting, we started off at day 0 with this enmity, and the trigger was that Dumbledore... doesn't seem to actually like children all that much. Oh, it's all well and good when they're pleasant and listen with bright and attentive eyes to him, but Tom Riddle was guarded and that seems to have been enough. The way Dumbledore reads nefarious intent into everything Tom, an eleven-year-old, says or does speaks for itself.

(As it is I find Tom in the orphanage memory acts very much like a normal child. Distrustful of authorities and jaded, yes, but that's hardly surprising given his background. Dumbledore's lack of understanding and immediate dislike of what is essentially a troubled child is what I find concerning about the chapter.)

Dumbledore goes on to explain to Harry how... I can't even paraphrase this, you're getting a quote (only a paragraph, or we'd be here all day):

"I had, as I have already indicated, resolved to keep a close eye upon him, and so I did. I cannot pretend that I gleaned a great deal from my observations at first. He was very guarded with me; he felt, am sure, that in the thrill of discovering his true identity he had told me a little too much. He was careful never to reveal as much again, but he could not take back what he had let slip in his excitement, nor what Mrs. Cole had confided in me. However, he had the sense never to try and charm me as he charmed so many of my colleagues." (Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, page 239-240)

(Yes, the guy kept going, beautifully at one point admitting "So I never actually caught him doing anything wrong at any point, but I feel confident in saying he was being evil off-screen all the same" and at another explaining "He had dark glamour, Harry", but I'm trying to be brief here.)

So.

Dumbledore, per his own admission, couldn't catch Tom out on anything even though he kept close watch and we know how uncharitable he is in his interpretation of Tom's words and actions. Notice too, though, how he thinks Tom viewed their first meeting: he believes Tom Riddle was an eleven-year-old politician straight out of Lord Hadrian Potter fanfics. Tom keeps his distance from a professor he doesn't like and Dumbledore says, "Ah, the Machiavellian youth recognizes me as a worthy opponent. How sensible of him."

You can't make this shit up.

So, no, Tom never stood a chance with Dumbledore. It was one-sided Machiavelli at first sight.

(And no, I don't believe this was mutual. Tom acts entirely too normal in the job interview memory, he's having a job interview and Dumbledore is Obi-Wan meeting Darth Vader on the Death Star. It's hilarious, but uh telling.)

[waywarder]

I just love that we get Arthur Parnassus as the all-time queer kind, patient, flawed-but-working-on-himself-and-acknowledging-his-own-worthiness phoenix mentor whom the youth need and deserve.

Fuck off FOREVER, Albus Dumbledore.

[hollowed-theory-hall]

Harry was never really Dumbledore's man

So, in HBP Harry says himself:

“Well, it is clear to me that he has done a very good job on you,” said Scrimgeour, his eyes cold and hard behind his wire-rimmed glasses. “Dumbledore’s man through and through, aren’t you, Potter?” “Yeah, I am,” said Harry.

(HBP, 348)

But, I'm here to argue Harry actually has many many doubts and reservations about Dumbledore throughout all books (even HBP), and I find it interesting how Harry convinced the Wizarding world (and the readers) that he's Dumbledore's man when he isn't. Not really.

(Just makes me all the more annoyed at him calling his son Albus...)

I'm going to go through some examples of Harry showing his doubts about Dumbledore way before book 7. Because Harry is an abused, distrusting boy, and Dumbledore isn't actually an exception to that until very late into the books. And even when Harry chooses to trust Dumbledore's intentions, he never fully trusts his judgment.

“D’you think he meant you to do it?” said Ron. “Sending you your father’s cloak and everything?” “Well, ” Hermione exploded, “if he did — I mean to say that’s terrible — you could have been killed.” “No, it isn’t,” said Harry thoughtfully. “He’s a funny man, Dumbledore. I think he sort of wanted to give me a chance. I think he knows more or less everything that goes on here, you know. I reckon he had a pretty good idea we were going to try, and instead of stopping us, he just taught us enough to help. I don’t think it was an accident he let me find out how the mirror worked. It’s almost like he thought I had the right to face Voldemort if I could….”

(PS, 217)

This quote above is from the ending of Philosopher's Stone and the outlook Harry, Ron, and Hermione have on Dumbledore and his behavior is the same as seen in the later books. So I wanted to talk about each of them and how they see Dumbledore because this quote really sets the tone for the rest of the series.

Ron is doubtful and distrustful. The situation is odd, and he's clever, he analyzed the situation and came to a frightening conclusion — the whole ordeal seemed planned by Dumbledore. And Ron isn't scared of voicing this question.

Hermione, while not always a rule-follower, respects Dumbledore and his authority. A lot. So, she doesn't believe Dumbledore could've planned it as it would reflect badly on his character and authority. Hermione is a very loyal person, and once she decides she respects someone she is willfully blind to their flaws (we see it with her later in the series).

Harry, while he's clever enough to notice the same things Ron did and come to the same conclusion — that Dumbledore planned for an 11-year-old to face Voldemort — he attributes good intentions to Dumbledore. Harry sees the situation and draws his conclusions, but chooses to hope/believe Dumbledore's intentions were good ones.

Harry’s brain seemed to have jammed. He stared numbly at Riddle, at the orphaned boy who had grown up to murder Harry’s own parents, and so many others. . . . At last he forced himself to speak. “You’re not,” he said, his quiet voice full of hatred. “Not what?” snapped Riddle. “Not the greatest sorcerer in the world,” said Harry, breathing fast. “Sorry to disappoint you and all that, but the greatest wizard in the world is Albus Dumbledore. Everyone says so. Even when you were strong, you didn’t dare try and take over at Hogwarts. Dumbledore saw through you when you were at school and he still frightens you now, wherever you’re hiding these days —” The smile had gone from Riddle’s face, to be replaced by a very ugly look. “Dumbledore’s been driven out of this castle by the mere memory of me!” he hissed. “He’s not as gone as you might think!” Harry retorted. He was speaking at random, wanting to scare Riddle, wishing rather than believing it to be true —

(CoS, 282)

This is one of the scenes people call to to show how much faith Harry has in Dumbledore (even Dumbledore himself), the thing is, Harry says (in his mind) he's just saying things to try and scare Tom. To try and buy time, or unbalance Tom so he may have a chance at escape.

The important note is that Harry doesn't actually believe what he's saying to Tom. He's just saying what he thinks would bother Tom the most.

Harry had never shared this piece of information with anybody. He was very fond of his wand, and as far as he was concerned its relation to Voldemort’s wand was something it couldn’t help — rather as he couldn’t help being related to Aunt Petunia. However, he really hoped that Mr. Ollivander wasn’t about to tell the room about it. He had a funny feeling Rita Skeeter’s Quick-Quotes Quill might just explode with excitement if he did.

(GoF, 310)

This part about telling no one about his wand's connection to Voldemort is true. He never told anyone by that point in GoF. Not Ron, not Hermione, not Dumbledore, not even Sirius.

As I mentioned above, Harry is abused and distrustful. He's not at all Dumbledore's perfect soldier who trusts him with everything. In GoF, Harry decides against telling Dumbledore about his dreams and the pain in his scar:

“Your scar hurt? Harry, that’s really serious. . . . Write to Professor Dumbledore! And I’ll go and check Common Magical Ailments and Afflictions. . . . Maybe there’s something in there about curse scars. . . .” Yes, that would be Hermione’s advice: Go straight to the headmaster of Hogwarts, and in the meantime, consult a book. [...] As for informing the headmaster, Harry had no idea where Dumbledore went during the summer holidays. He amused himself for a moment, picturing Dumbledore, with his long silver beard, fulllength wizard’s robes, and pointed hat, stretched out on a beach somewhere, rubbing suntan lotion onto his long crooked nose. Wherever Dumbledore was, though, Harry was sure that Hedwig would be able to find him; Harry’s owl had never yet failed to deliver a letter to anyone, even without an address. But what would he write? Dear Professor Dumbledore, Sorry to bother you, but my scar hurt this morning. Yours sincerely, Harry Potter. Even inside his head the words sounded stupid.

(GoF, 21)

Harry doesn't wish to share secrets with Dumbledore, nor does he feel comfortable to go to him with his troubles (his go-to adult while Sirius was around was always Sirius). Again, Hermione is mentioned as the one who trusts Dumbledore's authority, in Harry's head, but he's right, he knows her well.

Harry actually spends a good portion of the series purposefully trying to hide information from Dumbledore. (I'm saying 'trying ' because Dumbledore always found out, but not because Harry told him).

“He seemed to think it was best,” said Hermione rather breathlessly. “Dumbledore, I mean.” “Right,” said Harry. He noticed that her hands too bore the marks of Hedwig’s beak and found that he was not at all sorry. “I think he thought you were safest with the Muggles —” Ron began. “Yeah?” said Harry, raising his eyebrows. “Have either of you been attacked by dementors this summer?” “Well, no — but that’s why he’s had people from the Order of the Phoenix tailing you all the time -” Harry felt a great jolt in his guts as though he had just missed a step going downstairs. So everyone had known he was being followed except him. “Didn’t work that well, though, did it?” said Harry, doing his utmost to keep his voice even. “Had to look after myself after all, didn’t I?” “He was so angry,” said Hermione in an almost awestruck voice. “Dumbledore. We saw him. When he found out Mundungus had left before his shift had ended. He was scary.” “Well, I’m glad he left,” Harry said coldly. “If he hadn’t, I wouldn’t have done magic and Dumbledore would probably have left me at Privet Drive all summer.”

(OotP, 63)

Harry is angry here, true, but he doubts Dumbledore's idea of what's "safe" for him. He's actually glad for the dementors because he doubts Dumbledore would've brought him over if it wasn't an emergency.

And Harry is right to be doubtful and suspicious. He's right that he's less safe at the Dursleys than at Grimmauld Place. He's right to feel angry and betrayed at literally everyone knowing he's being followed except for him. He's right Dumbledore probably wouldn't have brought him if it wasn't for the dementor attack. Harry is correct in each and every one of his assessments of Dumbledore's character and decisions here.

“No,” said Harry, shaking his head. “It’s more like . . . his mood, I suppose. I’m just getting flashes of what mood he’s in. . . . Dumbledore said something like this was happening last year. . . . He said that when Voldemort was near me, or when he was feeling hatred, I could tell. Well, now I’m feeling it when he’s pleased too. . . .” There was a pause. The wind and rain lashed at the building. “You’ve got to tell someone,” said Ron. “I told Sirius last time.” “Well, tell him about this time!” “Can’t, can I?” said Harry grimly. “Umbridge is watching the owls and the fires, remember?” “Well then, Dumbledore —” “I’ve just told you, he already knows,” said Harry shortly, getting to his feet, taking his cloak off his peg, and swinging it around himself. “There’s no point telling him again.” Ron did up the fastening of his own cloak, watching Harry thoughtfully. “Dumbledore’d want to know,” he said. Harry shrugged. “C’mon . . . we’ve still got Silencing Charms to practice . . .”

(OotP, 382)

Remember I mentioned Harry hiding things from Dumbledore? This is one of such occasions. There are more in GoF that I didn't copy, but this is an example of Voldemort-related, dangerous information Harry is hiding from Dumbledore because he doesn't trust him and doesn't feel comfortable telling him things.

“It’s lessons with Snape that are making it worse,” said Harry flatly. “I’m getting sick of my scar hurting, and I’m getting bored walking down that corridor every night.” He rubbed his forehead angrily. “I just wish the door would open, I’m sick of standing staring at it —” “That’s not funny,” said Hermione sharply. “Dumbledore doesn’t want you to have dreams about that corridor at all, or he wouldn’t have asked Snape to teach you Occlumency. You’re just going to have to work a bit harder in your lessons.” “I am working!” said Harry, nettled. “You try it sometime, Snape trying to get inside your head, it’s not a bundle of laughs, you know!” “Maybe . . .” said Ron slowly. “Maybe what?” said Hermione rather snappishly. “Maybe it’s not Harry’s fault he can’t close his mind,” said Ron darkly. “What do you mean?” said Hermione. “Well, maybe Snape isn’t really trying to help Harry. . . .” Harry and Hermione stared at him. Ron looked darkly and meaningfully from one to the other. “Maybe,” he said again in a lower voice, “he’s actually trying to open Harry’s mind a bit wider . . . make it easier for You-Know —” “Shut up, Ron,” said Hermione angrily. “How many times have you suspected Snape, and when have you ever been right? Dumbledore trusts him, he works for the Order, that ought to be enough.” “He used to be a Death Eater,” said Ron stubbornly. “And we’ve never seen proof that he really swapped sides. . . .” “Dumbledore trusts him,” Hermione repeated. “And if we can’t trust Dumbledore, we can’t trust anyone.”

(OotP, 554)

Again we see the same exact dynamic from first year. Hermione is loyal to Dumbledore, not even considering he might be wrong about something, or not have their best interests at heart. Ron and Harry on the other hand, are both open to the possibility that things aren't so simple. They don't think Dumbledore is intentionally harming Harry, but they think he's wrong about Snape. Something Hermione, Arthur and Molly would never consider.

(This is actually the most annoying thing in Hermione's character for me, her unshakable faith in Dumbledore, who doesn't deserve her trust)

“. . . so you see what this means?” Harry finished at a gallop. “Dumbledore won’t be here tonight, so Malfoy’s going to have another clear shot at whatever he’s up to. No, listen to me!” he hissed angrily, as both Ron and Hermione showed every sign of interrupting. “I know it was Malfoy celebrating in the Room of Requirement. Here —” He shoved the Marauder’s Map into Hermione’s hands. “You’ve got to watch him and you’ve got to watch Snape too. Use anyone else who you can rustle up from the D.A., Hermione, those contact Galleons will still work, right? Dumbledore says he’s put extra protection in the school, but if Snape’s involved, he’ll know what Dumbledore’s protection is, and how to avoid it — but he won’t be expecting you lot to be on the watch, will he?” “Harry —” began Hermione, her eyes huge with fear.

(HBP, 552)

Even in book 6, the book Harry grows the most comfortable and trusting towards Dumbledore, even then, he doesn't trust Dumbledore. He thinks (and somewhat rightly so because he doesn't know of Snape and Dumbledore's plan) that Dumbledore is wrong about Snape. that Dumbledore is wrong about Malfoy. Harry doesn't trust that whatever protections Dumbledore would leave would be enough (and they weren't).

Even at the end of HBP, the point in the series where Harry has the most faith in Dumbledore, Harry still doesn't trust Dumbledore's judgment or his ability to protect the school. Even after Dumbledore calls Harry out on it, telling him the safety of the students is important to him, Harry still tells Ron and Hermione to get the DA to protect the school without notifying Dumbledore.

And Dumbledore raised Harry to feel responsible for the school's safety, Harry is doing what he was "bred" to do. But he does it behind Dumbledore's back, because like every adult, Harry deep down expects to be let down. After all, he's used to saving the school himself.

So, no, Harry never really trusted Dumbledore fully. At least, not Dumbledore's judgment. Harry does believe Dumbledore's intentions are good for the most part, even if ineffective.

“He never told me his sister was a Squib,” said Harry, without thinking, still cold inside. “And why on earth would he tell you?” screeched Muriel, swaying a little in her seat as she attempted to focus upon Harry [...] Where was saintly Albus while Ariana was locked in the cellar? Off being brilliant at Hogwarts, and never mind what was going on in his own house!” “What d’you mean, locked in the cellar?” asked Harry. “What is this?” Doge looked wretched. Auntie Muriel cackled again and answered Harry. [...] Numbly Harry thought of how the Dursleys had once shut him up, locked him away, kept him out of sight, all for the crime of being a wizard. Had Dumbledore’s sister suffered the same fate in reverse: imprisoned for her lack of magic? Had Dumbledore truly left her to her fate while he went off to Hogwarts to prove himself brilliant and talented?

(DH, 135-137)

And in Deathley Hollows, Harry is very quick to start questioning and doubting Dumbledore. Especially when compared to Hermione:

“Harry—” But he shook his head. Some inner certainty had crashed down inside him; it was exactly as he had felt after Ron left. He had trusted Dumbledore, believed him the embodiment of goodness and wisdom. All was ashes: How much more could he lose? Ron, Dumbledore, the phoenix wand . . . “Harry.” She seemed to have heard his thoughts. “Listen to me. It—it doesn’t make very nice reading—” “Yeah, you could say that—” “—but don’t forget, Harry this is Rita Skeeter writing.” “You did read that letter to Grindelwald, didn’t you?” “Yes, I—I did.” She hesitated, looking upset, cradling her tea in her cold hands.

(DH, 311)

Harry is hurt, he feels betrayed, because while he never 100% trusted Dumbledore's judgment, he trusted his intentions. He trusted Dumbledore was good and cared for him. He feels cold and betrayed, showing trust in his intentions. But his readiness to accept Skeeter's and Muriel's accusations so quickly shows he always had his doubts about Dumbledore and they never really left, even if he wanted to trust him, he never did, not fully.

Hermione, on the other hand, who was always loyal and trusted Dumbledore (both his intentions and judgment) 100%, tries to rationalize Dumbledore's actions and convince herself everyone who says bad things about him is lying.

Harry doesn't. Because out of the Golden Trio, Hermione was always Dumbledore's woman, Ron and Harry... not really. Not as much.

“That old berk,” muttered Aberforth, taking another swig of mead. “Thought the sun shone out of my brother’s every office, he did. Well, so did plenty of people, you three included, by the looks of it.” Harry kept quiet. He did not want to express the doubts and uncertainties about Dumbledore that had riddled him for months now. He had made his choice while he dug Dobby’s grave, he had decided to continue along the winding, dangerous path indicated for him by Albus Dumbledore, to accept that he had not been told everything that he wanted to know, but simply to trust. He had no desire to doubt again; he did not want to hear anything that would deflect him from his purpose. He met Aberforth’s gaze, which was so strikingly like his brothers’: The bright blue eyes gave the same impression that they were X-raying the object of their scrutiny, and Harry thought that Aberforth knew what he was thinking and despised him for it. “Professor Dumbledore cared about Harry, very much,” said Hermione in a low voice. “Did he now?” said Aberforth. “Funny thing how many of the people my brother cared about very much ended up in a worse state than if he’d left ’em well alone.”

(DH, 478)

More of how Harry thinks about Dumbledore, showing, again, how he always had his doubts and reservations but he chooses to trust Dumbledore's intentions because otherwise, he doesn't think he has any hope to defeat Voldemort. He chooses to keep following Dumbledore's path because he has no real choice but to trust what he sees as the only path that'll lead to Voldemort's destruction. But Harry has plenty of doubts about Dumbledore.

Hermione, on the other hand, has little to no doubts. She doesn't allow herself to doubt.

And this pattern, of Harry doubting Dumbledore again and again, never truly trusting him, just trusting his plan will kill Voldemort... like, how does that lead Harry to want to name his kid 'Albus'? I just don't get it...

TL;DR

Harry likes to say he's Dumbledore's man, but he always had his reservations, even when he choose to ignore them since trusting Dumbledore's plan felt like his only chance at survival. Hermione is much more trusting of Dumbledore than Harry is.

[ayosdesignz-blog]

Idk fam. 🤷🏾‍♀️

I'm still trying to figure out how and why Harry as a character/person (not the author) thought Albus Severus was 1) a good name; 2) something he'd WANT to call his own child considering how the men the kid is named after treated him, lied to him, and hurt him; 3) supposedly better than oh idk...Rubeus Remus maybe??? Or something. Just saiyan.

But back ON topic, pretty sure those things you listed were illustrated just as clearly in the movies too so maybe they're just blind Dumbledore supporters/enablers?? Or are unquestioning of authority largely seen and portrayed as the good guy? Maybe they just didn't finish the series?

They fell for the Dumbledore propaganda!!

Man isn't that great. Already looking like father time or some crap while other witches and wizards around the same age or decades to maybe a century or so older than him tend to look younger (but still old if not look the same age).

Like, if I remember correctly in the book Grindelwald's aunt had a similar "old" appearance to Dumbledore yet had been around for far longer. And I think the great aunt Weasley no one really liked was about as old as Dumbledore....but didn't look as old.

But that's all memory based and trying to do a quick Google check only gave me other ppls guesses. Magical folk aging is so weird.

So I saw someone on Facebook complaining about HP writers making Dumbledore manipulative. How they hate that Dumbledore always leaves Harry to be abused, is always keeping information to himself, and is always controlling everyone.

And I’m just like…

Because this isn’t fanon. This is actual canon shit! We aren’t making this attitude up!

Dumbledore left Harry with the Dursleys knowing full well they wouldn’t be suitable. He knew Harry wasn’t treated well but left him there to breed a martyr mentality so he’d let himself be murdered. 

Dumbledore knew Quirrell was possessed and did nothing about it, preferring to rely on a prophecy instead of taking matters into his own hands when he had the chance.

Dumbledore knew Lockhart was a fraud and did nothing about it. Two years in a row he allowed the education of 1,000 students to be compromised and let them all waste money on fake ass books.

Dumbledore refused to tell Harry anything and in the end Sirius paid the price because had Harry been up to date as he rightfully should have since Dumbles was expecting him to defeat Voldemort anyway, Sirius would be alive. He should have fucking said something. And didn’t.

Dumbledore has built a habit of doing what he thinks is best and ignoring everyone else’s feelings and opinions.

Dumbledore had Harry kidnapped from his legal guardian the night his parents were murdered. Sirius wasn’t sent to Azkaban - without a trial that Dumbledore never petitioned for btw even though he was Chief Warlock - until November 3rd, his birthday.

Dumbledore forced Sirius to stay in the very place he hated most of all.

Dumbledore left a magical mirror known to kill people by trapping them in visions of their heart’s desires, laying around in hopes that children would find it.

Dumbledore did nothing any of the times Harry became the school pariah. 

Dumbledore, for some reason, needed to borrow a fancy Invisibility Cloak that cannot be summoned by anyone, the very moment two of his warriors are targeted by the big baddie.

All of this is canon shit. Having him do this in fic isn’t fanon. How can people not get that?

[ronweasleys-world]

your analysis are fun, thank u for answering! sorry if i keep sparring, i just like talking abt it and i liked ur take, even if i kinda disagree. that analysis of remus' "blind devotion" is completely fanmade —for example, remus had no trouble refusing a teacher's position until dumbles offered him wolfsbane in exchange, sth that shows more how desperate remus was for a respite of his condition than anything else— and it's set upon a flawed premise: remus isn't blind to his friends' flaws. he does see them and he knows they're wrong, and it's implied that he even called them out sometimes and he did reign them in a bit. i doubt he'd do the same to dumbledore, but that's not out of blindness, but out of respect for dumbledore and an intimate knowledge of what blind mistrust (which is what harry tends to do and what remus is answering to when he talks about trusting snape bc dumbledore trusts him) can lead to in a war. ultimately, people tend to criticize remus for not going against dumbledore when there was no reason for him to do so (he didn't know of dumbledore's more questionable plans and people's dislike of dumbledore tends to get in the way of how he'd be perceived in-universe without that book 7 reveal), especially in the context of a war that dumbledore's leading. how he acts regarding dumbledore is no different from slughorn, the weasleys, the guests at the wedding in book 7 or any other character, regardless of his personal history with the man. not to say it wouldnt be interesting to explore, but it's not something that defines his character or the choices he makes (as shown in the fact that remus only being allowed to attend hogwarts bc of dumbles is barely mentioned in the books while we have hagrid to exemplify what blind devotion towards dumbledore because of what he did for someone looks like).

Nah keep sparring I love it.

I suppose fanon does have a way of influencing, I guess i've read too much fan-fiction. I can see how I have mixed up respect and blindness, respect makes more sense. Whereas with Hagrid, who is shown through to have a massive amount of respect and nothing bad to say about Dumbledore because he let him stay at Hogwarts.

The friends thing, he knew what they were doing was bad, I did not mean to imply otherwise, more that it would make it harder for him to speak against them. I cannot remember how much in canon Remus reigned them in, but I think it is stated somewhere that Remus couldn't or didn't want to do much in regards to it? Like the Sirius thing, he didn't want to admit about him being a animgus (or whatever) because that would have broken the trust Dumbledore gave him.

The Dumbledore hate train seems to have a way on twisting things, and it is true that Remus would have had no way of evening know about some of his, let's say dubious, plans.

The emphasis on letting Remus join Hogwarts is definitely explored more in fanon, but I still think it holds weight. Remus would have respected him a lot more for it, and I think it would have meant a whole lot to him and influenced him.

It is true that others opinions and thoughts may have influenced my opinions and how I remember the books, so thank you for bringing actual factual evidence from the books, it's been awhile.

I do think that Dumbledore would have had influence on Remus, but not at all negative or to slight him against. As you said, everyone trusted Dumbledore, held him in high regards.

I think it is the Dumbledore hate that emphasis's these flaws that people like to talk about, and maybe exaggerate them.

Please keep asking, i love talking about my interests, i get way too fixated and often don't have a way to explore/discuss them. Even if we are differing in opinion!

[forestdeath1]

by @dufferpuffer

Dumbledore was clever, cunning, and magically powerful. If he wanted real power, he could have quite quickly brought the wizarding world to its knees. Actually, he feared power and deliberately limited himself from it and tried not to get involved in the most political decisions because he knew he had a visionary side that could make him start deciding people's fates "for the greater good." He knew he could make mistakes. That's why all his positions were not really about power but were more like representative and guarantor roles, where there were many other decision-makers, and his power could be limited by others — from headmaster (from which he was disgracefully kicked out) to the position in the useless magical version of the UN.

Dumbledore didn't seek power, he feared it. That's why he avoided making some decisions and increasing his power even when he could and should have done so (like taking the post of Minister).

At first Harry thinks Dumbledore is almost like a god, but then he realizes that Dumbledore actually has no real power, makes mistakes, and is just an ordinary person with his own flaws, who has been fighting his inner demons all his life and can't forgive himself for a mistake he made in his youth.

Dumbledore is actually a deeply traumatised character who is often afraid to make decisions and avoids doing things because he believes his actions sometimes don't lead to good outcomes. He avoids action even when it's really needed, doing the bare minimum.

He is very distant, closed off, and I think quite an unhappy person. I can almost see the pain Dumbledore went through with the whole Harry situation, but it was a difficult decision that only he could make, and he actually hates himself for it, which is why he distances himself from Harry as much as possible (I don't think it's the right decision. I see it as Dumbledore's weakness.) Dumbledore's death isn't a sad event for him, it's the release he had been waiting for a long time.

This is such a simple idea that I really don't understand how people see him as a character who fought Voldemort just to keep his kinda pathetic power.

[firendgold]

This might be a bit of a rant but I just went through the dumbledore meta tag and theres way to many people who say that he groomed Harry to die. When thats not the case at all. Like okay prior to the end of gof he believed Harry had to die but its not like he wanted it. Its just that Harry had to die so voldemort could die and then Harry had to believe he had to die so he could survive. And I know people say it might be too complicated but its not that because I understood it when I was 11. And with the horcruxes dumbledore obviously wanted to destroy them all himself its just he died before he could and he only brought Harry along to get the locket because he needed another person. And he was the one to drink the poison. Like honestly if dumbledore had so little regard for Harry he would have just killed him himself. Voldemort even gives him the perfect opportunity at the end of ootp. And brings it up. Dumbledore probably would not have protected Harry right before he died either. Its just so very frustrating to me that its such a prevelant thought even amongst people who arent fully anti dumbledore.

Rants are okay! More than welcome here. Not like I haven't gone on several of my own.

Full disclosure though anon, I don't go through that tag or through Albus' regular tag for mostly that reason, so I don't know what the newest incorrect ideas circling are. The grooming narrative is wrong and tired, which in this fandom of constantly-recycled ideas is a miracle. There are so many people who either 1) haven't read the books, 2) have read the books but haven't read closely enough into Dumbledore's parts to fully understand him, or 3) some combination of the above, but they still feel fully qualified to play telephone with some incorrect BS that one fan said years ago and spread those fanon interpretations around like gospel.

Dumbledore's status as the "wise" one who has all the answers is incorrectly conflated with the idea that "he knows and he chooses every decision for every other character". Which isn't only incorrect, it's also horribly infantilizing and demeaning to other fully grown characters who make decisions which impact the greater story.

Similarly to yourself at age 11, it's not very hard for people of any age to posit out why That Woman had Dumbledore in the positions he was in, and why he made the decisions he made, without bashing by dumbing it down to "Albus, a character who famously turned down positions for fear of becoming too powerful and controlling, made all these decisions because he wanted power and control actually".

Dumbledore has a lot of political positions because he defeated Grindelwald and, after the whole "this war happened at the same time as the Muggle World War 2" thing, there probably weren't that many powerful, smart, qualified witches and wizards left in the whole world that people could trust. You know, because Grindelwald and his acolytes murdered them all.

It's likely that Dumbledore didn't want to be Supreme Mugwump and a Hogwarts Transfiguration Professor at the same time, let alone be lugging around an Order of Merlin, First Class, but he was probably overruled. The wizarding world had to had a hero to celebrate, after all. Didn't Albus realize what he'd done? He'd saved the continent! Stopped a madman! Who else is going to help us run our broken nations from the International Confederation of Wizards?

Dumbledore was somehow the only teacher in a school full of children able to recognize the budding fascist sociopath and his equally loathsome little gang, but (as he already says in HBP) he didn't intervene the second Tom stepped into Hogwarts because he believed that Tom deserved a chance to make a better first impression on his teachers and peers than he'd made on Dumbledore himself. Now, mind you, if he had gone around talking about what he'd learned about Tom Riddle, who's to say anyone in this "purebloods rule, everyone else drools" society would have taken him seriously? And then the fandom would have complained that "Dumbledore didn't let Tom meet people naturally and have a second chance to be better". You literally cannot win with these people.

Dumbledore didn't know about Petunia's personality or life beyond that she wrote him once asking to come to Hogwarts and that she was Lily's only surviving relative. All that other shit is FANON. The only people who knew what an ugly person Petunia likely was by 1981 was James Potter (who's dead by the time this knowledge matters) and Severus Snape (who, I notice, did not seem bothered by having Harry live with her and never brought it up).

This idea that Albus "knew" the Dursleys were bad and left Harry there anyway is wrong and we still don't have specifics on what exactly he suspected was going on at the Dursleys once Harry started at Hogwarts. (Because that's another big fanon idea, that Harry told people about the Dursleys in detail and asked not to go back. Neither of those things happened. Harry's not that type of character.) For fuck's sake, McGonagall in book one was not saying she sensed the Dursleys were going to mistreat Harry by neglecting him, she was worried that he was going to turn out like Dudley, who at age ONE was "screaming for sweets" while lashing out at his mom in public. This is exactly why book 6 Dumbledore makes a point of telling the Dursleys that their neglect for Harry was inexcusable, BUT they had also abused their other child by being too indulgent with him.

I've talked about this in other places, but Harry is not allowed to have autonomy over his own thoughts and decisions according to some fans. They believe all his decisions were "manipulated", so he can't have made them on his own. (Harry deciding to sacrifice himself because he understands that defeating Voldemort is more important than his own life, even if he does want to keep living??? GASP!) But often in their own works, in the quest to get Harry away from "manipulative Dumbledore" they just shove him under someone that they turn into an actually manipulative person, whether that's a girlfriend or boyfriend or mysterious relative or godfather or resurrected parents or what-have-you.

That brings us to the oft-relitigated plot points "when did Dumbledore learn about the Horcruxes/realize Harry was about to die", which I think you've covered more than aptly in your ask. Dumbledore didn't realize Harry was a Horcrux until the end of year 2. Dumbledore didn't want Harry to die. Dumbledore had multiple chances to kill Harry, or let him die, in the narrative that he actively did not take. And the fact that Dumbledore's very last act was to protect Harry from possibly being permakilled by someone Lily's bond of blood DIDN'T cover makes it very clear that to the end Dumbledore worked to give Harry his best chance to survive, even if he wasn't 100% sure of that possibility of survival. There were no other options, or they would have been taken.

The opposite side of this argument doesn't even make sense, because it would mean that Dumbledore did know 100% that Harry could come back thanks to Voldemort hijacking the blood protection. So then... what do bashers want him to do in that scenario? Throw Harry at Voldemort one summer for the lolz? What if Voldemort had double-tapped on Harry at age 15? Two Avada Kedavras juuuust to make sure. There goes the whole rest of the series.

Dumbledore says in DH that "Harry must not know, not until the last moment", which to me says he envisions Harry not learning that last terrible thing until all of Voldemort's other Horcruxes have been destroyed, so that he can (paraphrasing) have the strength to do then what must be done—annnd then hopefully come back and kick Tom's ass.

*sigh*

Like I said, I typically don't go through those tags for that reason. It just leads to me blocking or muting lots of people. It's bad enough that a bunch of TERFs who don't even care about the books are hijacking the fandom now, the last thing I need to think about is people who are actually fans letting their feelings get in the way of their reading comprehension.

[dinarosie]

Snaters: Where Trauma and Forgiveness Are Both Crimes

It’s always entertaining watching Snaters juggle their own contradictory arguments:

On one hand, they love to drag Snape for being such a fool because he couldn’t just let go of the past, forgive everyone who wronged him, and forget those tiny details like: being relentlessly bullied, humiliated for years, and nearly killed (because, you know the boys needed their fun.)

According to them, Snape’s real crime is his inability to brush off decades of trauma and grudge-holding. Sure, why not? Just forgive and forget, Snape, because that’s what good people do, right?

But wait—here’s where it gets rich. In the very same breath, they turn around and slam Harry for doing exactly that. Apparently, Harry’s the real idiot because he forgave Dumbledore and Snape and—brace yourselves—named his child (Albus severus potter) after them. How dare he? How dare Harry move on from the past and recognize the complexities of this flawed but ultimately brave and selfless man?

So, let me get this straight. Snape’s an idiot for holding onto his grudges, but Harry’s equally foolish for letting them go? Snape’s a horrible person because he can’t be “healed,” and Harry’s naive because he can grow from his pain? Make it make sense.