okay, a couple things on alien stage/ivantill that I think some folks maybe need to consider and internalize.
Till does not "need" to return Ivan's feelings in the slightest if he doesn't feel that way. It's heart wrenching to see Ivan love him and have those feelings unreturned, but please remember that no one is required to return romantic feelings for someone else. You can't make yourself love someone, and you shouldn't. Especially out of guilt or obligation. That's Unhealthy 101, and would only set a relationship up for failure. (I do think Till cared about Ivan, and that he's going to have a Guilt Complex based on the fact that he didn't fully notice Ivan's feelings/care toward him until the guy died, but I've seen a couple of people tear into Till for not noticing/reciprocating Ivan's feelings??? Don't do that??? their situation is shitty, the fact that they didn't get to talk is shitty, but please don't blame Till for things he Can't Control.)
The kiss was not consensual. It wasn't meant to be portrayed as such. It wasn't even really romantic, it was a desperate, selfish act that Ivan used to get Till's attention (in more ways than one) and to give himself some sense of closure before he died. It was him saying everything that he felt at once, with no chance for Till to reciprocate or deny the affection. In a perfect world, they could have talked instead of this, maybe kissed knowing both wanted it, or given Till a chance to refuse. But they're both in the middle of an essential death tournament and one of them is going to be murdered sometime in the next few minutes. Neither of them really wants to live, but Ivan feels he has unfinished business before his sacrifice, so he finishes it. Their situation sucks. That doesn't mean the kiss was consensual. (especially considering the theory/implication that Till was/is being sexually assaulted by aliens, I wouldn't be surprised if this affects him badly in the future, for multiple reasons. Everyone should always get the chance to say "no" and have that fully respected. This also extends to the fact that Ivan died for Till without giving him a chance to stop it, which is probably going to mess with Till's head a lot. Then again, Ivan likely didn't think it would affect Till much because as far as he/we know, the feelings aren't reciprocated in this moment in canon, or are extremely repressed. Ivan might believe that Till simply hates him, or the kiss/subsequent "choking" may have been a way of trying to make Till hate him so that his death wouldn't hurt as much. Of course that thinking is flawed, because it would hurt Till no matter what, but still, it makes me sad)
Ivan... is kinda messed up. I adore him, but we've got to acknowledge that he has little to no emotional and relationship maturity due to the fact that he was quite literally raised as a pet and learned at a young age to do whatever his masters said to keep himself safe and pain-free. His fascination with Till appears to largely stem from Till's sense of rebellion. Ivan's examples of relationship dynamics and what constitutes as "love" is dangerously unbalanced, and he does not know how to build a healthy relationship. (Neither of them do.) This is also built onto the fact that the person he became dependent on only paid attention to him when they were fighting or Ivan was annoying him. Ivan cares about Till desperately, but he is also dangerously reliant on him to the point of self-detriment. Again, in an ideal world, they would be able to get out of this situation and gradually make a healthy relationship/friendship (depending on Till's feelings) over time while starting to undo the dangerous relationship patterns that they fell into when they didn't have any way to know better. But they're in a terrible situation, and Ivan really just doesn't get the chance to grow as a person and realize that his sense of possessiveness and reliance on Till's attention isn't healthy.
Basically, their situation makes me want to sob and its heart wrenching. Their circumstances have set them up for failure. Both of them are in the midst of attempting to survive an abusive situation and massive amounts of dehumanization. I beg, please try not to sanitize their complicated relationship or blame either of them for the pain the other is going through. I've seen some of that going around, and it's making me sad :(
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Natsuhi/Kumasawa Manifesto
Yes shipping. No not even straight crack, I’m like actually serious! Though I’ll be frank this is mostly going off the wall insane and just doing what I like for fun and profit rather than serious analysis! But if you’re interested…walk with me!
I wish there had been more Natsuhi and Kumasawa interactions. Lesbionically charged ones even. I was thinking about how Kumasawa really stands apart from the rest of the servants as the lone person in Japanese clothes and who also doesn’t really gaf about the Ushiromiya’s like that (and the Ushiromiyas likewise are either really rude to her and/or dgaf). She also is always talking about the original Rokkenjima mythology. It got me thinking about what Natsuhi thinks about her, and if she took special notice of her in the sea of Western things associated with the Ushiromiya’s. Kumasawa is also a seriously minor and under-utilised character considering everything, and I think that’s a shame.
I constantly think about how Natsuhi was supposed to have an affair with Gohda, and I assume it would have gone more into her own desires as an individual outside of her really pitiful life on Rokkenjima. Since here is a guy who is her social lesser, who adores her, and has a distinctly servile nature around her. Like this is a dynamic that is going to appeal to her. I really want to push back against the whole Natsuhi as a tradwife characterisation because I think it ignores that it’s literally a mask that she’s constantly trying to convince herself she’s okay with. She’s a deeply conservative woman, but she clearly yearns for power and respect of her own. Which I think plays well into her conservatism with gender, like how she’s takes such pride in calling herself the representative to the head, and in her fantasies of a supportive Kinzo, he talks about how she would have made a wonderful son-in-law. Like she WANTS to be the one with power, the “man”, even if she’s still an extremely traditionally feminine woman. Like she wants to be of course seen as steady and reliable but also to be supported and doted on (by people beneath her i.e what I think an affair dynamic with Gohda would have been). For her knowledge and contributions to be admired and recognised and seen as valuable. It’s also interesting to contrast her to Eva who is like, outside of family conferences, living as close to her best life as is possible with a husband who respects and defers to her, even if she’s nominally taking the position of his supportive wife. Like everyone recognises her place as the matriarch of her own family. Which is NOT the case with Natsuhi. Who is taking Ls left right and center every single day of her life, emotionally and literally. However I feel like Gohda is too much of an incompetent clown to make her feel like that in an actually successfully or especially compelling manner. I also think he perhaps appeals TOO MUCH to Natsuhi on the surface level, like she’s not exactly questioning that deeply if she likes this refined and servile guy who is around her own age.
And so…enter Kumasawa. Her senior by like 30+ years, lowborn, boorish, vulgar and insubordinate, and with no (visible) special standing (unlike eg. Genji) outside of her long service. But also…BECAUSE of these things Natsuhi would feel very comfortable being, ugly, raw, needy, unreliable around her. Because why should she be ashamed to be those things around someone like Kumasawa! Natsuhi is so far above her it’s inconceivable that she would ever feel unworthy in front of her! It’s just a given! She should be happy to even be spoken to by someone so far above! But the thing is…I think Kumasawa would run rings around her. And has every reason to dislike and look down on Natsuhi, for her cruelty to the servants, her posturing, and clear failure to command the respect of the true master of the house, or even her own husband and daughter. Kumasawa is a very minor character but I like the small insubordinations that peek out, and while she’s generally sympathetic to the suffering of women, Natsuhi can be a real piece of work to the servants eg. Shannon. This can create a fun dynamic where Natsuhi can be needy and unreliable, and be outwardly cruel to Kumasawa but also have a condescending affection to her. And she’s too shortsighted and up herself to even realise Kumasawa feels the same. Or if she does it’s in a I can see you hate me, but that’s okay, because you have no choice anyway. Like a dark reflection of her own entry into the Ushiromiya family. And Kumasawa could see her as this pathetic young (hilarious to write about a 47 year old) thing who is fun to toy with, especially since Natsuhi is always throwing her weight around with the servants. The way that class and gendered dynamics intertwine would be so delicious with these two as well. Natsuhi is the social better, and the Man. Kumasawa is the woman, but not in any way to actually threaten Natsuhi in regards to conventional femininity (she’s an unrefined old biddy after all). Like it’s okay and not conflicting with her conservative values for Natsuhi to act like this because Kumasawa is so beneath her. But also…Kumasawa has 30 years on her and those 30 years are not nothing…I kind of want to see her indulge Natsuhi a bit and spoil her even if (maybe especially if…) condescendingly🙈 especially since Natsuhi’s had to grow up so fast and been forced into this wet blanket wife role. I want to see her be annoying to Kumasawa like Krauss is to her.
Also would be funny since Kumasawa’s personality and habits probably irritate her so much lmfao. Like imagine the phantom thread scene where Alma is chewing really loudly and Woodcock is going insane. Also Kumasawa is the one with real control over the servants, like it’s all Natsuhi has but it’s not even real. I want to see Natsuhi take out her pain but also try to assuage her guilt about The Child Who Would Be Sayo via her. Which is so yummy because Kumasawa’s sins are so much worse! Lol and this affair might be like literally the main outlet for Natsuhi to escape her life, but for Kumasawa who has a whole ass life and family and kids, it’s nothing. This is all not to be uncharitable to Natsuhi but I personally like to see women behaving badly and being flops in their romantic liaisons. I think there’s a fun dark version of Natsuhi where she give into her selfish desires more and kind of channels Kinzo. Like making the choice to position herself with him as a way to escape the miserable pitiful life of a housewife of an unworthy man. Usurp Krauss as Kinzo’s heir instead of trudging along the path to becoming the pitiful perpetually disrespected figure of the person who was Kinzo’s wife/ Krauss’ mother. Anyway now this is making me think a lot of a NATSUHI-Beatrice Forgery where she gets masc’d up and Kinzo-like HAHAHAHA.
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