#first important DC character to come in is NOT a bat

[redflagshipwriter]

Reassembly 1

Masterpost

inspired by the iconic DC/marvel crossover Dark Matter that was actually the only reason I started reading DC (so if you like my DC stuff, Mystery Cyclone is who you have to thank)

The first thing that Peter registered was pain. His whole body felt like an electrical burn.

It was a relief to be in bone splitting pain, for about an instant. That was enough time for Peter to joyously process,  'I'm alive?' It came with a flood of endorphins. Holy cow, he was alive! How had Mr. Stark saved him? Did they win after all?

That next instant was when he fully processed the pain he was in. His whole body was burning cold. He opened his mouth to scream and he inhaled a viscous, sour liquid. He choked on it, hands flying to his throat. He opened his eyes and everything was filtered through a shadowy green. He couldn't see anything but green. He felt panic and it didn’t feel natural.

It didn't take Peter long to regret opening his eyes. It burnt. He gasped again despite knowing he wasn't going to get air. He closed them again but it didn’t help anything.

'I'm drowning! I'm drowning? Why am I drowning!?' 

When did he get in the water??? The last thing he remembered was being on Titan! Titan wasn't notably wet! 

It didn't matter, he could figure that out later. He swam. He only moved a little before he hit something. Peter flung his hands up flat against something hard, smooth, and cool. It felt like glass. He felt like a wild thing, feral and desperate. There was a light show behind his eyelids– or maybe an electric light was flickering madly a few moments before it died, casting him further into darkness.

'I'm going to make a mess.'

His hindbrain was running the show, so the guilty thought was just background noise as he made fists and banged on what he really hoped was glass. It broke.

He expected the glass to shatter or something and the water to all rush out in a dramatic wave. Instead, he felt it sort of collapse away from his hands and he distantly heard the glug of draining water filtered through the burning liquid all around him. 

It still hurt, everything hurt. He had to get out! He hit the glass again in desperation. This time it broke more dramatically. Water rushed out with enough force to dash Peter against the broken glass. 

It knocked the air out of his lungs- but he didn't have air. So instead he violently heaved that horrible green jelly out in a dramatic spray. He heard it hit what sounded like a hard surface.

And he heard screams. 

Peter's eyes flew open. He blinked rapidly and fought the urge to scrub at his face with his hands. The odds that he had small shards of glass on them was uncomfortably high. 

His spider sense switched on violently. His full body jerked. 

Holy shit. Leaving the tube had apparently been a very bad decision for his safety.

'What is this?'

He was in a dark room. The only light was coming in through the glass pane on the top half of a door. He stumbled towards it. His whole body was loosening with relief as the green slime sluiced off of him. 

The door was locked. Before he’d processed why it hadn’t opened Peter stupidly turned the handle a second time. Right. Of course. It was still locked. That was how locks worked.

It took a moment to think of what to do. 

He forced the door open. There was an ugly crack in the doorframe. He didn't look as he stumbled out into a hallway. It was white tiled, with off white walls and the long lines of fluorescent lights overhead. 

'I've been taken captive by someone who doesn't have an interior decorator.' 

It wasn't much, but it was a clue. Mr. Stark would be able to exclude a lot of villains with that information. Peter looked both ways, heart pounding. Where should he go? He had no idea where he was or what was going on. One end of the hallway was silent. The other had the sounds of a distant but desperate fight.

That was when he realized he was naked. Peter was standing in a hallway absolutely naked, and still wet with green goop soup. 

He turned away from the sounds of people. 

Instantly he felt guilty, but he was naked! Peter ran, wet feet slapping on the tile. It was absurd. It should have been funny. It wasn't. He felt frantic and halfway insane and he still hurt. 

'I hurt before, too,' he remembered. 'On Titan, everyone disappeared and then I hurt and I fell and Mr. Stark said-'

He shoved the thought deep, deep down before he became a gibbering wreck. Later. He'd think about it later. 

For now he threw open doors as he came across them. Most of them were locked. Peter threw open a door and then turned on the light.

It was a lab. There was a huge tube full of green liquid and a- 

"That's a body," Peter said, to himself. The words echoed. "That's a - that's a corpse." 

Horrible? Bad. Very bad. He flicked the light back off and kept running. He was suddenly very glad he had run away from the sounds of human voices. 

His brain tried to draw a mental connection between the green tube and where he woke up. He pushed that down and ran faster. His survival instincts were still in charge and they were screaming at him to leave. He was even more frantic now. He needed a door outside. He flung open a door, registered that it was full of clothes, and shut it. 

Then he remembered, 'Hey, I'm absolutely naked,' and opened it back up. 

It was full of clothes that were not suitable to wear in a lab. That made sense. Peter stared at a collection of jackets, skirts, and boxes of sandals. Right. People who worked here would have changed into long sleeves and full length pants when they got to work. 

'It must be hot outside now.'

It was not ideal. He grabbed a bright green zip-up jacket that smelt kinda dusty, a black pair of dress pants, and frantically shoved his feet into a few pairs of slip-on sandals until he found one that kinda fit. "Why don't women have bigger feet?" Peter wailed, heels hanging off the end. He pulled the jacket on as he ran and hopped his way into the pants. "Ned is going to give me so much shit," he panted. The thought made him feel better. The closest door led to a shitty changing room, with metal lockers. 

'Oh. Normal clothes that don't need to hang up would be in here.'

He froze, weighing how desperately he wanted to get out against how bad of a fit his current outfit was.

His Spidey sense didn't say the building was about to fall down this instant, so he decided to look for something better.

He started pulling on lockers frantically. Even if it wasn't immediate, he was in danger here. His spider sense was screaming it. That normally meant that he should run or duck or hide. Right now, he just knew it meant that he needed to get out of here and not get tracked back. That meant blending in. He needed to look normal, and a teenage boy in too-small sandals, dress pants, and a hi-vis jacket was not normal or inconspicuous.

He found one that hadn’t been properly locked and yanked it open. “Thank god,” Peter breathed, looking at men’s clothes. There was a slightly messy pile of T-shirts and rolled up socks at the bottom, a brown zip-up jacket, and two pairs of sweatpants. The holy grail was a pair of slightly worn white sneakers that looked his size. A quick check of the tag showed they were a half-size smaller than he’d buy. 

‘Thor is looking out for me,’ Peter decided. ‘This is actual godly intervention.’

He changed right there, sending up a silent apology to the mad scientist whose wardrobe he was raiding. White shoes, black sweatpants, brown zip-up hoodie (oh no, he was mixing warm and cool neutrals) and a plain white t-shirt looked a lot more natural on a teenager than what he’d grabbed at first. The outfit change took seconds. He stuffed the old outfit in the locker to hide it and impulsively decided that he might as well grab the bag that was hanging from the back. He was pretty sure the compound was being raided or something, so the guy was probably going to be too busy in jail to notice his missing stuff.

The next door led outside. He could smell fresh air. He nearly wept. 

First that was because freedom was close. When he shoved at the door, the temptation to cry was because it was a heavy metal door and didn't budge. 

Peter reeled back and looked around for a way to unlock it. The only thing he saw was a box with a card reader. You needed an ID badge to get in and out, then.

Or super strength. This wasn't going to be subtle. Peter busted the door down with only a smidge of regret and burst into what turned out to be cool night air. It smelled like the ocean and safety.

Alarms blared. 

"Okay," Peter said, "That sounds bad." 

He picked a random direction and bolted. He wasn't too far gone to notice the first street sign and numbered address on the building he passed. He'd need to know where he'd just escaped from later. Mr. Stark would know what to do about a creepy laboratory with bodies in tubes-

A body!  Not bodies, just one human corpse! He had been in a tube, yes, but. But.

Peter pushed down the impulse to scream. 

That was great, because it wasn't actually that late out. He passed a jogger with a reflective wristband and hi-vis jacket. She gave him a weird look in passing. 

'Because I look crazy sprinting by myself,' Peter processed. He needed to- did he need to put distance between him and the building or to blend in better? 

No one was actively following him. 

Peter swallowed hard. He forced himself to slow down to a brisk walk. He tried to look bored. He wished he had a phone to mess with. Oh. He unzipped the bag to check if there was one inside. There wasn’t, but there was a wallet.

He grimaced. Whoops. He’d look in that later. Maybe he could mail it back to the guy, if there was an ID in it. 

There wouldn't be like, cameras everywhere, right? If not, the most important thing was to not be memorable. He was pretty sure. That sounded like something the Black Widow would say. 

He ruffled his hair and realized it was drying in spikes. Peter grimaced at the feeling of whatever that stuff had been, drying. He wanted to shower immediately. 

He settled for not touching it. He walked and walked and realized that he didn't recognize anything. He wasn't in NYC. 

Well. Duh. He stared out at an unfamiliar city after sunset, dumbfounded. The last thing he remembered was being in outer space. He should just feel lucky to wake up on Earth at all. 

Okay. What was first? He sucked in deep breaths, struggling for calm. He needed to find out where he was. That was first, right? Then he needed to contact someone. Aunt May or Mr. Stark or- he had Happy's phone number memorized. Okay. Great. His heart rate started to slow a little. He knew lots of adults that could get him. 

It felt a little unreal to walk down the sidewalk past chattering civilians. Peter stared at people, not entirely sure why but feeling a little creeped out. 

'They're not scared or stressed. Everybody's acting like it's a normal day.'

It took a while for the realization to hit. 

'The invasion must be totally over.  Things have gone back to normal.' 

That should have been a relief. Instead, he felt a creeping tendril of fear. What had happened to him? How long had it been?

Okay. That question gave him a task. He needed to find the date. That was achievable. 

He started walking again with that mission in mind. Despite how bizarre his situation was, having a goal made him feel more stable. Sure, he didn’t know what had happened, but he knew how to gather information to make a plan. That plan was probably going to be ‘borrow a phone and call someone, or use a public computer to email someone.’ He just needed a little more information to make that happen. 

A thought occurred. Peter bit his lip and stole looks at the other people walking around. No, it couldn’t be. He hadn’t been asleep for a really long time, no way. People looked about the same. If anything, the fashion here was a little conservative and outdated. He eyed one young woman and was pretty sure Aunt May owned that exact top in another color.

To be fair, he was from New York City. Fashion started there and spread elsewhere, right?

It was fine. Everything was fine! He walked a little faster and wished he'd ended up somewhere that he knew. It would have been easier to get his bearings. He saw the name “Metropolis” on enough signboards to figure out that was the name of the area. 

‘That is weird,’ he thought, anxiety prodding at his nerves. He fiddled with the zipper on his jacket to have something to do with his hands. ‘I’ve never heard that city name before. And this is definitely a city. People have American accents here. Shouldn’t I know this city?’

Well. Maybe it was a suburb or something. Like, a subname, like how the boroughs were all part of NYC. He could be in like, California, or something and just not know the area well enough to recognize it. 

Peter finally found an electronic billboard with the date on it. Oh, shit. He stood open-mouthed for a long moment, watching the pixels appear and disappear in a ripple in between ads for a divorce lawyer and a jeweler.

It hadn't been long. It had been the opposite of a long time since the fight with Thanos. Or something? 

Peter knew he was reeling. He shoved his hands in his pockets and started running on the sidewalk just so that there was a reason for his breathing to be so heavy. Shoot. Shoot. His shoes were starting to pinch and his whole body felt itchy with panic.

The flashing billboard had displayed the date in the bottom left corner. According to that, he was 5 years in the past.

'How and why?'

That complicated things. Peter tried to make a mental map of what things were like five years ago. 

He couldn't go home. Not yet. He could – oh. Oh, Uncle Ben hadn't been shot yet. He reeled. He could- and Mr. Stark, this was around the time that Mr. Stark was kidnapped, wasn't it? He didn't remember exactly but maybe he could help. 

It was too much for him to process right now. He wanted to go home and hide. 

'I can't go home.' 

The thought hit him hard. His heart started to race.

If he went home- they'd think he was a stranger! Would Aunt May and Uncle Ben even recognize him this much older? 

'I think they'd want to help me. But they can't afford to feed me. I can't put that on them.' 

Guilt crawled into his throat with claws. Peter felt his eyes watering. He was so selfish. He had a chance to help people and save lives and he was busy feeling sorry for himself because he couldn't go home? What kind of hero was he? 

"This is good," he choked out. He scrubbed at his face. "I- I can fix so many things." 

So why did it feel so terrible? 

It was a bad night. It really was. He should have- he was a literal superhero. He should have compartmentalized and strategized and been practical, like his inner Colonel Rhodes advised. 

Instead Peter wandered. He just walked the streets of this city as night fell and didn't even figure out where he was. The climate seemed like New York City, for what that was worth, so maybe he wasn't too far off from the home he could never go back to. 

It took a really long time for him to realize that he was hungry. Like, he was really hungry.

That stopped Peter in his tracks. Despair crawled up his throat and choked him with tears. He didn't know what to do. He didn't know how to solve these problems. Act like an adult, he guessed. Adults got jobs. He needed to get a job. 

'I want to go home.' 

Was that just childish? Maybe it was a good idea. If he was in New York City, at least he'd know his way around. That could only help. 

Well. All roads lead to Rome, don't they? Peter started looking for train tracks. If he found a subway entrance it would be clearly labeled, but he didn't have any money for tickets. So he needed the actual railroad, for moving stuff.

'It's not legal but it's not like, a real crime,' Peter told himself, and decided to go for it.

Peter sent up a silent apology to the transportation system and hopped on top of the next freight train that came by. It took him through this weird city and then out into the country for a short spurt before churning into a different city.

Not just any city. Peter stared at the night skyline. The bleariness from exhaustion was playing tricks on him, wasn't it? Because this looked like New York City. 

[allovesthings]

In my opinion, the butt jokes are incredibly incredibly tired.

So here are several fun facts about Dick that you can use for comedic effects/running jokes instead:

His hatred of Capes. Listen we are talking about Dick wore a yellow cape for 9 to 10 years in universe Grayson. The moment he changed his costume, he straight refused to ever wear a cape again, the only time he had to wear one, it was as Batman and it was very very frustrating for him.

You know that when he watched the Incredibles with Lian and Roy or Damian and Edna Mode came on screen with her hatred of capes, this was his reaction:

Someone else finally understand him. She instantly became his favorite character.

His tendency to put unknown substances/evidence in his mouth and being able to identify it by taste and his knowledge of what Heroin taste like (yep still not over it).

It's both impressive (the fact that he can actually identify something by taste alone is impressive) and gross and even his closest friends don't understand why he is the way that he is, Do we think it's the Bat training or do we think it's just Dick (tm)... I feel like it has to be just Dick, right ? considering everything in Gotham is a toxin of some kind ? How many heart attack do we think he gave both Bruce and the Titans with that ?

Dick Grayson namer of superhero things: Listen, I just learned that Dick named the Arrowcave and now I just kinda love the idea of a running joke that every time a classic superhero in contact with Robin has a goofy name for something superhero related, it probably comes from the 9 year old superhero who thought it sounded cool.

The Titans are never letting that go and Dick doesn't want to talk about it (but he secretly still really like the names, they were cool when he was 9 and pretty practical when you think about it, thank you very much).

Everyone has a crush on him (tm): Honestly it is pretty funny that everyone and theirs entire family have a crush on Nightwing (and also pretty consistent canon since Raven in ntt). The reaction of the batfam is annoyed because that's gross, it's Dick, theirs brother/son, and the Titans are amused (Donna, Vic, Garth and maybe Wally) or maybe sorta part of the people who have had a crush on him (Kory obviously , Roy, Raven).

You do need to be careful with that, but I think if you do the opposite of what DC is usually doing, you'll be fine.

Also you can also includes the disastrous first date with supergirl in that. She also had a crush on him and they date was so horrible that he considered changing superhero identity because it was so embarrassing (truly one of the greatest plot-point on Superman/batman world finest honestly and this series is genuinely my favorite modern/current series)..

His petty side when he doesn't like someone: Listen, Dick has a petty side, ask Helena circa Outsiders (2003), Talia (always), Jason circa the late 2000s (Morrison era) and Azrael (also always). When he doesn't like people but has to work with them, he is going to be a little shit because they have to know he doesn't like them. it's important. and the comedic potential of Nightwing, one of the most competent, known and admired hero of the community being so petty is excellent. 10 out of 10, I need him to work with someone he hates again just for the fun of it.

The last one is just an headcanon and do not have basis in canon as far as I know:

Sometimes, as an adult, Nightwing says Holy shit in front of a classic superhero and that superhero does a double take because they are so used to him saying Holy goly batman (and that include Batman).

[liedownquisition]

Ooh, care to share what are your opinions on the personality distinctions between pre-crisis Dick and Jason?

Okay so, I don't know how coherent my thought process here is going to be so bear with me, but there's a few things I want to acknowledge first and foremost because they play a SIGNIFICANT part in how each character is, well, characterized. I'm also going to try as best as I can to compare them at similar ages but, well, if you know anything about comics and also in light of some of the points I bring up in this post, I think you'll understand why that's so difficult.

Additionally, look. There are like... soooo many comics, yeah? I'm going to focus on characterization specifically in Detective/Batman comics because frankly I don't want to hunt down examples from every comic he's appeared in or have to deal with potentially conflicting characterizations from different titles, there's enough of that in just these two.

The biggest reason I say is that at the time that Robin was originally added to Detective comics (#38), it was still something of an anthology of multiple stories in one book. Batman's adventures took up something like 11-13 pages and were completely self-contained. The Batman comic was started, if I'm not mistaken, after Detective #39, and while it is (almost) completely devoted to Batman, it also contains multiple stories in one issue and each is largely self-contained. Conversely, by the time that Jason is introduced, most storylines bounce back and forth between Detective Comics and Batman, and often last for several issues each. It also takes up more of the Detective comics pages (I wanna say something like at least 16?) and only has 2-3 stories (often, actually, Green Arrow & Black Canary stories, lmao.) (If I'm not mistaken, I believe both Detective Comics and Batman released monthly but two weeks apart from each other, so you'd be able to get your Batman fix every two weeks? Or at least, that's how it was before they started bouncing storylines back and forth, but I have to assume it's something similar given the consistency with which the stories zig-zag.)

This means that generally speaking we spend a lot more time developing characters later on in the comics. Dick, for a long period of his run, I feel has a more implied personality than a displayed one, but what he does is also heavily informed by his role in the comic and his relationship with Bruce. When Jason comes in, his role and relationship is different and that also informs his characterization.

So, I guess, let's start with that.

So, first of all, Dick is never* Rarely referred to by Bruce in Pre-Crisis with any familial language, Also Rarely* does he refer to Bruce with any. We often like to use the modern comics' interpretation of their relationship as father and son, especially since DC has pivoted their market onto their superhero "families," and I'm not going to argue that the idea of raising a child from the age of, say, eight or nine up until adulthood is pretty parental. I've made these arguments before, but it's important context to understanding his "personality" that he's not treated like that in the actual writing.

*Edit: I stand corrected on the "familial language" point. Unfortunately it looks like some of the issues listed here are ones I'd skipped because the image quality in the archive I was using was bad enough to give me a headache. Still, I don't really think he feels like a "child" in a majority of the cases that aren't literally centered on the idea of him being a child.

Dick was, from the get go, introduced to be Batman's partner, so his joining was a foregone conclusion they didn't waste too long deliberating. He was originally just supposed to be under Bat-Witpro but then Bruce activated turbo mode on his trauma projection beam and the rest is history:

Detective Comics #38

As far as either of them are concerned, they are each other's "best/closest friends," and as far as the narration uses, Dick is Bruce's aide or sometimes protege. It's not until some, what, few hundred comics later I think*? They'll start referencing him as Bruce's ward more often. *In Detective at least. Apparently I wasn't searching through Batman thoroughly enough and missed a few things, per above link.

Batman #3

Batman#359

Detective Comics#43, Batman#3

On a more... practical sense, you could say that Dick is the Watson to Bruce's Sherlock, albeit with an added flair of "training him to also be like Sherlock" kinda deal. This, imo, is reinforced with how often you see Bruce smoking a pipe while the two of them are talking, usually with Dick asking a lot of questions and Bruce answering them pretty authoritatively:

Batman#1

Contrast it to Jason, who literally the very next story after he's taken in by Bruce, starts referring to him as his "new father."

Detective Comics#526 (As a slight aside, another point to the, I suppose arguably "personality" differences here is that Bruce was going to send Dick back to Haly's, but Dick wanted to stay. Meanwhile Jason was the one suggesting he'd go back to Sloan Circus, and was diverted by Bruce's offer. He does also run away and go back to the circus later but we'll get to that)

Detective Comics #527 - I'd originally had two cuts from this issue including the previous one where Jason's saying "Batman's like a father to me now, I have to help him" but I ran out of images and decided if I'm sacrificing one that was the best option. Yes, I could theoretically use an image software to fuse some of these together. it's 3 AM, I'm not doing that.

Now, a not insignificant part of the above is later framed as Jason trying to prove himself so that Bruce will let him join him in his fight, but I'm going to be honest, given that Batman #361 (immediately prior to the above) has Jason enjoying an acrobatic routine with Bruce and then having a slight melancholy flashback about his parents being dead, I'm more inclined to believe that Jason scared of losing another parental figure so soon after losing the last ones, and he's clinging on to Bruce with all of his might because he's a scared child who's recently been uprooted from everything he's ever known.

It's not quite explicit, but as Jason notes that Batman had some clever tricks but that he'd needed Jason's help to win, it feels like Jason's trying to take control of the situation. His parents' deaths at Killer Croc's hands (Which were, tbh, largely Bruce's fault imo. He asked them, average & untrained civilians, to help him snoop around Croc's extortion outfit, and even lashed out at Dick when he suggested it was too dangerous for them. Yes, Bruce has a lot on his mind, but still) were completely out of Jason's hands. He couldn't even try to save them and didn't even find out they were dead until he was trying to warn Batman about a plot against him and overheard Batgirl telling Bruce about it, and, well, gestures above. He can't not want to save what little he does have left.

What all of the above really adds up to is that generally speaking even in his more "childish" moments, Dick is narratively handled as an adult. Yeah, he makes jokes and is dashingly daring, perhaps a bit more impulsive than Batman and occasionally damsel-ified, but he's not exactly that much more of a punster than Batman and his own quips tend to be.

And, I'll be honest, I can't help but wonder if the contrast between "miniature adult" Dick Grayson and "actually a kid" Jason Todd, is part of why he wasn't very well liked by some readers. After all, look at how a lot of people modernly react to more emotional younger characters like, say, Shinji from NGE or Steven from SU. When Dick is shown being emotional, idk, in the earlier comics it feels much more abbreviated and easy to gloss over. This applies to female characters as well, of course, and generally even moreso, but considering Jason's a boy character I felt relating it specifically to other boy characters who have that issue was more appropriate.

(The above gets worse when he's rebooted, because he IS definitely still framed as a child, with more volatile emotions like a child, but a child who "had to grow up too soon," which STILL reads differently from Dick being written effectively as a small adult.)

Anyways, as a result of this difference I'd like to make something clear: Dick Grayson has always been a far more serious character (personality-wise) than the cheery, bright colors of his costume and the concept of him as a circus performer might make him seem. And yes, even the puns, which at the time Bruce also made all the time. Dick, for the most part, is fairly content with his life until he gets older and starts butting heads with Bruce.

I do feel like in some ways it's a bit harder to really nail down a single, clear personality for him especially in the older comics, because there's not a lot of time spent exploring it, per the whole above thing on less pages and self-contained adventures. Honestly, if anyone wants to add on more panels and a more specific description for Dick, including outside these two titles, please feel free because I've been combing through hundreds of comics trying to find some more tangibly descriptive options for specific traits, but frankly the best panels I've found for him aren't until we get closer to, say, Detective #400 and such, which he's in college during and therefore I think is an unfair comparison.

But fundamentally, the core of Dick's personality is this, repeated at the beginning of nearly every issue, he's supposed to be more spur-of-the-moment and courageous (and quippy, but so is Bruce... until he starts sometimes randomly-but-not-always being a sourpuss about puns during Jason's run????). Where both are people of action, Robin lacks the "adult" patience, and making him a child is pretty much there as a means of excusing his impulsiveness. He's of course still incredibly clever, especially after Batman trained him, and is often sent on undercover missions alone.

And, y'know, an independent streak a mile wide. I would definitely say that in the long run he's a lot more mature than Jason, point blank, and he's pretty much got a handle on this whole crime fighter thing right outta the box as soon as he's trained up.

Jason though? Jason is frequently and consistently denied parts of Bruce's life in a way I would argue makes him crave a more dependent (and reliable) relationship:

Batman#363

Batman#395

If I had to really draw a strict line between the two on their biggest difference it's insecurity. Jason is full of it, and even after he becomes Robin he hinges so much on his relationship with Bruce and proving that he's important to Bruce, that he ultimately cripples is other relationships. (See: Rena)

Honestly, it's so weird to see Jason's writing here sometimes, because he'll have very natural misconceptions and feelings of discontent, and then it feels like it gets artificially tied to the fact that Bruce won't let him be Robin.

On the other hand, It feels very much like Jason won't settle for anything less than Bruce's full attention, and I can't say I entirely blame him: he's a kid and Bruce is all he has. With how much of Bruce's life is consistently upended by his role as a crimefighter... who would want to be only part of the life that gets upended? Who wouldn't want to feel more secure by knowing they aren't just being blown off? ... After all, we have a perfect example of this in Bruce's constant abandonment of Vicki Vale, which runs parallel to Jason's own insecurities.

First, third, and fourth are from Detective #530, second one is from Batman #364

Jason is deeply, deeply insecure, and, with the exception of anger issues (arguably), most of the things Jason gets accused of modernly, are actually more accurate for describing Pre-Crisis Jay: recklessness, a need to prove himself, being a bit of a glory-hog... which is all generally attributed to the fact that he's young, and it's forgivable for it... most of the time.

Honestly, I would go so far as to say that, with the exception of the victim-blamey tone they have about it and his motives, you could argue that if enough of the pre-crisis cases were considered canon then you could almost say they're right in ascribing those traits to him.

Batman #368

Detective #535* which, I'll say you could arguably take some of this with a grain of salt. Jason is hypnotized, but does later mention that he was only hypnotized to act certain ways at certain times and was able to decide for himself what to do outside of them.

But I'm going to reiterate: A lot of it feels like a need to have more control in his life, and a constant presence by Bruce's side. He wasn't there when his parents died, and found out by coincidental timing after the fact. I feel like he does tend to display some separation anxiety from Bruce, and is very worried about losing him.

This is a somewhat decent page about that from Detective #534 after he choked out Ivy (who'd previously been choking him out first) to save Batman:

(It was emphasized earlier in this same comic that Ivy had gone to a length that they'd likely need to "take the gloves off" and take extreme measures to stop her)

Despite being really excited to work with Batman, he very quickly learns the drawbacks in ways that cast him with a lot of self-doubt, including the above kidnapping from Manbat, another almost-kidnapping out-of-costume via Chimara, being assaulted because of Crazy Quilt's obsession and hatred for Robin specifically despite having no clue who the villain was and everyone assumes he's the same Robin as there's always been... Consequences Dick didn't struggle with nearly as much or, in some cases, never faced at all.

I definitely probably missed some stuff but at this point I don't think I'm making myself any more clear unless someone asks me about a specific point lmao.

[styluswritesdc]

Hi, I've read all your posts and I loved them all. Now, we could have the DC villains with their love, who is a vigilante (female reader), find a child and, as a result, they begin to raise him together. ❤️

thank you so much that's so sweet :(

this is fun considering another child related request I received recently! luckily for this child they have you here to influence the rogues! if there's any specific character you'd like and/or anything fleshed out Lemme know!

Riddler/Edward Nygma

oh no. nonono we're not keeping it.

nono! he's not gonna hear it! he doesn't care how much you want it!

...well okay.. you've worn him down.. but don't expect him to "hang out" with "it"

okay he deserved that smack but seriously why are you doing this to yourself! he's enough of a child as is!

Don't let it get its narstie child hands on his stuff! its not a toy >:(

Despite all of that, it is quite sweet when they start warming up to each other.. he's showing them how to solve basic puzzles and trying not to be too critical (extremely hard for him so please be patient).

he will be getting them a tiny green suit tailored along with a matching bowler and cane. so cute.

imagine this asshole showing up for parent teacher meetings and being the poor teacher who "had the nerve" to give his kid less than an A+

he's a bit emotionally unavailable but tries to make up with it through quality time. be this teaching them programming, computer science, and playing board games.

Scarecrow/Jonathan Crane

ugh you really want it?? fine. but you have to take care of it, feed it and walk it.

I've always imagined him being that odd uncle who's off-putting because he's literally insane but other than that he's cool..

he will teach them reading, writing, spelling and basics like that.

this child will have half the house off limits as Jon's paranoid they'll touch/break some of his lab tech or worst case scenario come in contact with some of his toxins.

he understood terror at an early age and will not want to inflict that on his own child.

with his background, he also studied child psychology so he understands the importance of his presence in their life.. despite how reluctant he may feel about it.

will read them bedtime stories. he's surprisingly good at the voices!

imagine how much fun Halloween will be for this kid! despite how many schemes he might have for the bat and Gotham, this kid will have a whole day dedicated to them. trick or treating and age appropriate films will ensue!

TwoFace/Harvey Dent

okay I can see this going one or two (haha) ways. either this guy is like "no absolutely not" or they decide to try turn over a new leaf.

They will not be their father. end of.

they will be present, loving and kind. no voices will ever be raised towards this kid.

he would, for the first time in awhile, be conscious of his scarring. its a brilliant tool for crime, he looks scary and intimidating.

but as a father? they don't want to be stared at in public, scare other children in the park or at their child's school... and most of all, they don't want their child to be embarrassed or ashamed of them.

they want to be an actual family.

Harvey is doing most of the talking and fronting now. Harv is still present, as he always was, watching over Harvey as alters do.

Harv's fond of the child. believe me, if any harm came to them from either rogue, thug or GCPD, Big Bad Harv will make his comeback.

Black Mask/Roman Sionis

Oh okay you want it? sure doll... just like, keep it away from his office, yeah?

Honestly he's kind of chill about the whole thing, almost indifferent.

at first he's lowkey expecting you to get bored and that'll be the end of it.. but when you don't, suddenly he's kind of freaking out.

its like when dads are calm during the pregnancy but when the baby's coming its actually happening and they panic.

He's worried about safety even more now. this is an extremely paranoid man. now its increased tenfold.

this child is going to have bodyguards galore. to and from school, when they're outside, hell- they sneeze and they'll have a tissue handed to them by one!

No matter how much you protest he's going to spoil this kid. no matter what they want. oh? they're six and want a pink elephant? done. they want a fully functional crane for their sandbox? already in the post.

kind of emotionally unavailable because he's so connected to crime he wants you and your child to not miss him too much if he dies.

Bane

Oh hell yeah he's down. excellent lineage! this kid will be powerful and strong! but still, they will have a childhood.

he's such a good dad :( it actually makes me sad.

he's nurturing. both within the ring and outside of it.

this child will be strong physically, mentally and emotionally.

this massive man has a humungous heart. yes, to others he's calculating, stoic and reserved.

but he will be going to the park with this kid and getting on the fucking seesaw. that's such a funny image oh my god. could you imagine being another parent and seeing that??

he raises this child to be a protector from bullies and an advocate for themself too.

despite all this he is TOTALLY that dad who loses his mind when doing Math homework. MATH IS MATH why did they suddenly change it?? when did long division get so convoluted??

the child will cry, as did we all. but they'll go and get ice cream after to cheer them up :)

[zahri-melitor]

I hate to be that person however:

"Why are Dick and Babs together in comics? They're being forced together!"

Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon?

Yeah. A mystery.

But I guess, it might have a little something to do with the fact that back in 1995 both Dick and Barbara had returned to be firmly under control of the Bat office.

And in 1996 Chuck Dixon started writing them flirting with each other in Nightwing. And Devin Grayson wrote them having rooftop reminiscences on New Year's Eve where they told each other the same stories every year in DC Holiday Bash II. Which carried through to them flirting in Birds of Prey in 1999, and to having their first proper date on panel in Birds of Prey #8. And then shortly afterwards having them be very cosy in a dating way as Barbara patched Dick up in No Man's Land after he broke out of Blackgate.

And in 2000 we had the Hunt for Oracle crossover where Dick and Dinah had to work together to protect Barbara from Blockbuster's men coming to kill her.

And in 2001 Dick was sleeping over at Barbara's house and Barbara and Dinah had to rescue him when he was kidnapped by Shrike, and Babs was tucking little love notes in his gauntlet. And they had a favourite place to go for drives for a date and eat crab cakes in Joker: Last Laugh.

And in 2002 their contribution to Our Worlds at War involved Barbara and Dick travelling to another world and staking out a situation where they ended up making out by a fire. A lot.

And in 2003 we got Batgirl Year One which firmly retconned Dick and Babs into having dated in their teens.

And they KEPT dating until they officially paused their relationship in early 2004 while Dick's life was burning down around him, but they were STILL looking out for each other and when they officially bilaterally decided to break up with the other in Nightwing #100 and Birds of Prey #76 they left each other practically identical voicemails explaining how they loved the other one too much and their heads weren't in the right place and that it wasn't fair to be dating right now but they were still incredibly important to each other. As is obvious, in Birds of Prey #86 where Dick comes to Babs' house party in Metropolis and apologises and the two just hang out, sitting side by side.

And then in 2006 right as everyone expected Dick to be about to die in Infinite Crisis, Dick proposed to Babs and she accepted, because as I repeat this was written expecting Dick to DIE and even then the last thing they wanted to give him was to make sure that they were together.

And even when the engagement was broken off in 52 due to the rebellion saving Dick and Conner dying instead, Dick and Babs were still ready to drop anything for the other if one of them called, as seen by Dick coming at Babs' call when she faced off against Katrina Armstrong, or Dick taking Babs skydiving for her birthday in Origins and Omens in Nightwing #153. (I repeat, Origins and Omens, a series of shorts that were supposed to be Portending Doom moments or restating a character's background. Dick took Babs on a date)

And then during Reborn even while Dick and Babs were fighting with each other over the best direction for Gotham (and how hopeless the other's protege was) they still found time to get closer again, as seen in The Black Mirror and Birds of Prey #10.

And then it was the New 52 and while Barbara and Dick spent all 5 years of this Officially Not Dating, it was not because they didn't LOVE each other. Oh, no. In between having fond reminiscences of when they dated as teenagers while Robin and Batgirl, they were always checking in on each other, and the other's first phonecall. Babs bitterly mourned Dick's death and their lost future in Batgirl #30. Every time one of them gets out of a relationship they turn around and see the other, only to find THEM in a new relationship. But they're backing each other up and hanging out together and the UST just keeps building.

And then we get Convergence: Nightwing and Oracle in 2015 in a specific continuation of preboot, where Dick and Babs are together again (and basically getting to rerun No Man's Land) and in the face of alien nightmares and the end of the world, again, Dick proposes again and Barbara, after contemplation, accepts and they get married.

And then it's Rebirth and 2016 and Dick and Barbara are still circling around each other and turning up in the other's books for team ups and deep and meaningful conversations, and flashing back to their teens together (Batgirl #14-17 2016), and Dick has to talk seriously with Babs about What They Have Between Them before he has his relationship and pregnancy scare with Shawn Tsang and if either of them were simultaneously single it is obvious that it would very shortly be BACK ON.

(And then I am currently up to mid 2018 on my read and Dick is very shortly about to get head-injuried into being Ric for a while)

However I am aware that in Dark Nights: Death Metal Dick and Barbara get unofficially married again because it's the end of the world and they'd rather be married than not (are you sensing a theme here?).

And in Li'l Gotham, which is largely an adaption-continuation of preboot with some quirks of its own, Dick and Babs are very seriously dating and possibly may be married.

And in Juni Ba's The Boy Wonder Dick and Babs are so together they're discussing the shopping list while crime fighting.

Like, the answer to "why are Dick and Babs dating in Nightwing" is basically "have you read any of the last 28 years of Bat comics?" Because I dunno, but I have read almost every joint appearance of Dick and Babs between 1995 and 2018 so far and let me tell you they are either dating, lusting after each other with a lot of UST, or determinedly explaining to the other why they can't be together at this exact second because [obstacle].

It's not exactly hard up for precedent, folks.

[bluespiritshonour]

Dude I don’t even ship Maiko like that and even I disagree with all of your takes on the writing lol, are you sure that you actually enjoy it?

Since you said you don't ship maiko like that I'm sure you aren't wasting away your precious hours thinking about them, so I wouldn't be surprised if you don't agree with my takes (hint: they didn't form overnight. I wasted my precious hours thinking about them)

Besides, I do have a sort of superiority complex when it comes to this so we're both alright I guess. I mean, this is a fandom that doesn't understand why Aang not killing Ozai was important (I'm a batfandom cast off in ATLA and after the Bat-doltry that DC engages in, which is such a myopic and privileged view) ATLA was refreshing! ATLA did the "hero refuses to kill villain" right. I can't even think of a single other media off the top of my head that dealt with it as satisfactorily.

People saw Zuko getting his face burned off because he didn't like the idea of using soldiers as canon fodder (which is basic military strategy, anyone else would've said. There'd be collateral in war, anyone else would've said) and yet—I see blog posts and fics of Firelord Zuko being a stoic and reserved leader... Not an earnest bone in his body. Even though Zuko's overly emotional nature is NOT something the show posited as a flaw for him to get over. (If anything, Ozai tried to beat it out of him) idc people call it character development. I can see him being less angry, more peaceful, more patient with age, but are you certain you want him to go the "that's just how things are"/"difficult decisions have to be made" direction? He's supposed to rehabilitate that country, a non-proactive, non-revolutionary attitude is NOT gonna help. Yet, that's the kind of Firelord this fandom fantasizes about because "royalty."

Boriiiiiiing.

(I'm pretty sure the above paragraph is not going to be understood right because I really didn't do a good job of explaining it. I don't have the right words. Hence the large word count and rambling. I wish I was eloquent)

This is the fandom where freaking zutara is popular (I'm sorry I'm laughing)

This fandom (outside of kataangs) doesn't understand how romantic "why would I choose cosmic energy over Katara" is. How amazing it is that an indigenous girl is loved and valued like that!

This is the fandom that thinks Zuko is a dark romance bad boy. My reading of Zuko already doesn't match with 90% of the fandom, I know it.

And I'm supposed to take it seriously if some anon disagrees with my takes. It's okay! It's fiction! It is one of the few things where we can agree to disagree! (The other thing being food)

And if I read ATLA with an overly critical political lens and/or I want it to be subversive and non-tropey, then trust me, I'm more aligned with its themes than those who think "that's just how things are done" are (I say this assuming my long ass post about what I want from maiko is what led to this ask)

As for if I truly enjoy maiko, I'll point out the things I do enjoy about it:

Guys like Zuko don't end up with girls like Mai. If it had been, say, Mai/Aang, that'd have been flipping the good girl/bad boy dynamic over a 180 degrees but it's Zuko we're talking about. If ATLA had been normie media and not subversive Zuko would've ended up with, idk, Jin. Someone who can fix all his problems with kisses. As much as he enjoyed kissing Mai, his problems didn't disappear. Heck, if they had to pick one of Azula's friends to be Zuko's love interest, they could've picked Ty Lee! I wouldn't have shipped them though. That's not to say I hate ships like jinko or ty luko. It's just not something I fancy. Girls like Mai simply do not get the guy.

Mai is the active one. She pursues him. She kisses him first. She decides she wants him and she gets him. She knows what she wants and the narrative doesn't shame her for it. I can count on the finger of one (1) hand the number of ships where the woman leads and all of it are unpopular (I'm not surprised. I'm beginning to wonder why female-led hetero ships always get the "he didn't want her" accusations. I won't elaborate on that) I just like women taking the lead and maiko does it for me, okay?

Mai is ride-or-die without being a doormat. Another balance that the show, at least, strikes right: everytime I hear ride-or-die, I know the term is being misused and the woman is a doormat. We live in a man's world after all. Mai was ready to die for Zuko but she wouldn't put up with his bullshit and "fix him".

Mai got the guy, got a happy ending all the while without changing her identity. This is a fandom that can't appreciate nuance. Either Mai is robot who feels nothing or swerve right in the opposite direction! She's bleeding heart who feels everything too much. It's... More complicate than that? (Actually it isn't. I'm incapable of saying anything in under 500 words. I'm pretty sure my description of fandom perception of Mai isn't doing its job.) But I made a behemoth post about it here!

And if my saying "I didn't think they were toxic in the show, the comics are another story" is what prompted this ask. Then lemme present to you: The Beach was one episode! One. It would have been too unrealistic if they'd never fought at all. But since they had so little screen time The Beach just sticks out. It does get its point across though: Mai wouldn't stand being disrespected. Zuko gets confronted with the concept of accountability when Mai shuts down his attempt to justify his ill behaviour with his backstory. Even though it was pretty dramatic and heavy handed about the whole thing. I don't like that episode for that reason. Yeah, I'd have liked it if he'd grovelled and made it up to her. But Avatar Studios never cared about Mai(ko) like that. But other than that, their break up—the actual break up that lasted more than an evening—was due to "opposite sides of war. Angst. Hurt/comfort. 18000 words—" okay. Not 18000 words. Avatar Studios never cared about Mai(ko) like that.

I was enjoying maiko alright until certain part of the fandom started grating on my nerves with their "hE fOrGoT hER iN PriSon" takes. If Mai is not a good girlfriend (which is bullshit, she's a great girlfriend) it's Mai's fault. And if Zuko's a lousy boyfriend... it's also somehow Mai getting laughed at? So I thought, why not hold Zuko to an even higher standard? I mean, yeah. You might think "Blot, if you like loverboys so much why do you ship maiko?" Because I think Zuko is capable of being one, y'know? It wouldn't be OOC for him. If you disagree see above☝🏽I already don't see eye-to-eye with the Zuko fandom. It is true that romance was never a vital part of Zuko. For comparison's sake, it was of Aang! Even though kataang is the kind of ship where if you take the romance away, they're still soulmates. Which is why people who hate their bond (you don't have to ship it! Just don't downplay their relationship) simply do not get the show. Another take I disagree with the fandom about: zUkO iS FeMale gAzey. He isn't. Goodness, I wish he was! I fucking wish he was!!! This, even without bringing maiko into the picture. Aang refuses to learn from Pakku because he wouldn't teach Katara. Sokka had a whole unlearning sexism arc. Zuko? Zuko had none of that. I have no idea where the fandom gets its Zuko and/or FN were feminist idea. Pink washing at play here? This time for fiction? Because you relate to the colonising power more?

Now. If only those things were fleshed out and maiko was allowed to grow as couple instead of the comics truly making them toxic. I say toxic because Boiling Rock was a turning point for maiko. They shouldn't be having old hangups after it!

I'm not a shipper as a rule because the kind of ships I prefer are rare. On top of that, I do not enjoy romantic melodrama. I've heard shipping in comic book community gets insane. I was in DC fandom for 4 years and I have no idea what the shipping side of things looks like. I couldn't be bothered.

All of the points above, but especially bullet points 1 and 2. Maiko at least gives me that. You know how rare that is? I just can't with ships where women aren't assertive. There's nothing wrong in that, just not my cup of tea.

They could've not paired Zuko up with anyone. But they did and proceeded not to develop his side of it. I think I can complain about that. I still ship maiko because I think their characters are interesting together. The idea of what-could've-been. If it bothers you so much, then think of it as fanon ship 😁

[i-care-bout-things-too]

Batfam Ages:

Okay, there is no such thing as an exact science when determining the ages of the Batfam, but the easiest thing you can do is work of the concrete ages that you /do/ know, and make them fit with canon events to the best of your ability. Now, canon changes all the time—which definitely makes this a challenge, but I’m going to just explain my process for determining their ages and you can disagree if you’d like, or you can use this to write fic like I do where ages are semi important,

Let’s begin. I’m going to give you the arbitrary number of 15, this will be important later.

Dick Grayson:

Depending on the canon, Dick is 8, 10, 12, or 15 when his parents die. All of these numbers will have problems depending on which you pick, but I go for the safe bet of 10 years old. Why? Well, a little known fact is that Dick ends up in juvie after his parents die, and he’s not immediately taken in by Batman. Thus, it takes a little while longer for him to become Robin, which doesn’t immediately happen after he becomes Bruce’s ward anyway, because Batman doesn’t immediately go and spill the beans. Thus, Dick ends up in Bruce’s car at around ten or eleven, but doesn’t become Robin until he’s 12.

Now Dick is Robin up until he’s about 18, when Bruce takes Robin from Dick because it’s too dangerous and Dick refuses to quit. Dick joins up with the teen titans full time, and he’s still Robin for a little while longer until we get Nightwing, aka Discowing, for the very first time at age 19. Simultaneously, while this is happening, a little kid is stealing the Batmobile’s tires.

Jason Todd:

Our beloved street rat Robin, Jason Todd, swings a tire iron at Batman and then gets taken out for fast food. It’s great, it’s cute, it doesn’t immediately lead to his adoption though, either. No, instead Jason ends up in an orphanage that is trafficking children. Bruce shows up one day to check up on Jason, and is made aware of this by his soon to be first adopted son (yeah, you heard me, Dick isn’t adopted yet). They take down the trafficking ring, and Bruce adopts Jason. Jason then becomes Robin at age 13.

Unfortunately for our boy, he was widely disliked by comic fans across North America, DC did a little telephone poll, and by a few hundred votes, DC changed comic history forever by killing off a high profile character what seems like /permanently/ for the first time ever. No resurrections this time. (Hah, right!). Which is to say, Jason Todd has the second shortest run as Robin at just two years, dying at age 15.

Tim Drake:

So then we get Robin numero 3. Tim Drake sees Batman getting darker and more violent and goes y’know, someone should do something about that. He tries talking to Nightwing, but he’s in a bad place with Bruce after learning Jason died via a Newspaper (yeah, Bruce sucks for that one), and tells Tim he won’t be going back to Robin. Thus, lil Timmy Drake gets an idea in his head. He looks himself in the mirror and goes, I can fix him, and then, Tim Drake becomes Robin at age 12.

Tim Drake has one of the longest runs as Robin, with only a mild interruption from a lil blond Bat.

Stephanie Brown:

Stephanie Brown starts off as the vigilante Spoiler, whose whole purpose in life is to spoil the plans of her C-list villain dad, Cluemaster. She meets Robin (Tim), hits him in the face with a brick, and then ends up dating him. Unlike most characters who appear a few times and never come back, Stephanie manages to stick around. She gets pregnant at age 15 (it’s not Tim’s, and no she did not cheat, this happened priorly), she gives birth, the baby is put up for adoption, and she becomes Robin after Tim’s dad, Jack Drake, finds out Tim is Robin and bans him from it. Tim is forced to quit and Stephanie picks up the mantle. She’s clocks in the shortest run as Robin, working with Batman for about two months before Bruce forces her to stop. Tim picks up the mantle again, and Steph goes back to being Spoiler—only to get killed by Black Mask, making her the second “Robin” to die. DC does retcon her death, and we later learn she was only badly beaten and sent off to live in a foreign country before she makes her return.

Jason Todd, Again:

While all this is going on, stuff is happening behind the scenes. Namely, Jason coming back to life. A common misconception here however is how long Jason was actually dead. While I wouldn’t be able to find the panels to confirm it, the true number is a “short” 6 months. Yep, while years passed in the real world, possibly decades, actually, Jason was dead all of 6 months. According to the books, he undigs himself from his grave six feet under (because Superboy punched through the multiverse or something?) and ends up wondering around Gotham as a mindless little zombie. Conveniently, Talia al Ghul stumbles upon her beloved’s lost little bird, and she decides to take him home and train him. He’s with them for a bit, gets dunked into a Lazarus pit, comes back very very angry, is shipped off to the all caste for a bit, and upon his return to the al Ghuls, is informed he’s been replaced by little Timmy Drake.

Jason makes his whole plan, and decides to make a splash by returning to Gotham wearing an old moniker of the Joker’s and taking over Gotham’s underworld. He beheads a few criminals, tries to kill Tim, tries to get Bruce to kill the Joker, and doesn’t really have success in those latter two objectives. That puts Jason at age 19, roughly. We don’t really know how to count the months he was dead.

Damian Wayne:

Shortly after Jason’s unmasking as the Red Hood, Damian Wayne turns 10 years old and beats his mother, Talia al Ghul, in combat. His prize is to be taken to his father and given to him for training. We know definitively that Damian is 10 thanks to this we can measure out the age gaps between the others and get their ages at this point in time. Dick at age 19 became Nightwing, while Jason is made Robin at age 13, so they have a six year age gap. Jason dying 2 years later at age 15 leads to Tim becoming Robin at age 12, they have a 3 year age gap. Tim is Robin for 3 years before Jason comes back and Damian trails after him a few months behind, putting Tim at around 16/17 while Damian is 10. I tend towards 16 instead of 17 because DC stopped aging Tim for a while, so it just makes more sense to pick the lower number. Thus, when Damian is 10, Tim is 16 as is Steph, Jason is 19, and Dick is 25.

Thanks to Damian being quite young, DC has kept an active track of how and when they age him. We know Damian is only with Bruce a few short months before he disappears into the time stream and Dick makes him Robin, and we also know that Damian’s 11th birthday is celebrated after Bruce is reinstated to the proper time. However, DC follows this up by killing Damian and making him the third Robin to die, the second to do so in the suit itself, and he’s dead for a significant number of months. In this time, Dick also dies—as in his heart is stopped by Lex Luthor for a few seconds, and then restarted, after his identity is revealed on live TV. Bruce decides to let the world believe Nightwing died and stayed dead, and Dick is sent off to Spyral to do secret spy stuff for Bruce. There is an issue around here in the “Grayson” run that claims Dick is twenty-one years old, which is ENTIRELY incompatible with the time line I just painstakingly established, and I go ahead and outright dismiss it because it clearly doesn’t work with a majority of canon. While Dick is with Spyral, Damian is brought back to life, and he goes on a year of redemption (which doesn’t actually last a whole year, but I digress). He and Dick meet again, and we move into Rebirth somewhere around here with the conclusion of Spyral and Batman and Robin Eternal.

General Events:

Damian turns 12 presumably sometime during rebirth, although not specified, I do believe Truth and Justice issue #6 to be his 12th or 13th birthday, but I lean towards 12 because of the costumes everyone wears in the issue. Steph is spoiler, Cass is Orphan, Tim is Red Robin, Red Hood has yet to don his solo Outlaw uniform, and Barbara is Batgirl.

I can’t name a specific issue for Damian’s 13th birthday, but it’s canonical that Damian turned 14 in his solo Robin series, Robin (2021) while he was off finding himself before the Lazarus Tournament, and since then, there’s been the Shadow War, Batman Vs Robin, Dark Crisis event somewhere around there, the Lazarus Planet event, Gotham War, DC Knight Terrors, and Beast World event, which catches us up to the modern day world.

Since Damian hasn’t yet turned 15 despite ALL of that going on, and is still for now at least, 14, that means Tim and Steph are 20, Jason is 23, and Dick is 29.

I know I mentioned Cass and Babs, and I would love to give you a proper age for them but I don’t know where to place them in DC canon like I do the others, however people do commonly place Cass roughly around the same age as Jason making her 22 or 23, and Babs tends towards being 6-8 years older than Dick, although that is an age gap DC has been slowly bridging over the years. Still, I put her at 35 years old. I don’t have a reference for Duke Thomas either, but he’s commonly placed as being two years younger than Tim making him 18 currently.

Lastly, I bring back the arbitrary number of 15, given that that is the number of years that separate Dick and Damian, I also use that age gap between Dick and Bruce—meaning that Bruce took Dick in when he was 25, and placing Bruce at 44 years old in main continuity.

Overall Ages Currently:

Bruce Wayne: 44

Barbara Gordon: 35

Dick Grayson: 29

Jason Todd: 23

Cassandra Cain: 22

Tim Drake: 20

Stephanie Brown: 20

Duke Thomas: 18

Damian Wayne: 14

[ratofthenest]

i despise the idea that Tim Drake's character has some sort of huge "problem" arrrgehebeh

for starts, when it comes to Tim the title "Robin" was never a regression or a starting point. unlike Dick and Jason, Tim's character wasn't written to just be "Batman's sidekick" like they were. the whole point is Tim was... perfect. everything Batman could ever need and more on the field.

Dick quit being Robin once he start university, picking up the mantle of Nightwing. Dick started out as Robin REALLY young, and the whole thing was a nickname from his parents. he became Robin to avenge them, and then stayed afterwards to continue to help people. he was a really good Robin, too! there's a reason so many people like him. he's like, what every sidekick dreams of becoming, yk?

similar situation with Jason (but not really?). he starts off a completely different person from how he is portrayed today, and especially after his death? there was no way he could go back to being Robin after all that. Either way, Jason started out with that same REALLY strong sense of justice Dick had (although, let's be honest, Jason has always been a little violent with his delivery of it)

[Side note: these are brief, 2 paragraph overviews and obviously their characters are so much more convoluted than this, but this post aint about them!!]

Tim? Tim doesn't come from a broken background, which sets him apart from the first two Robin's immediately. he starts off with both his parents alive and well, and he's a white rich kid. He didn't have an incentive to become Robin, yet he did it anyway, completely for the sake of "saving" Batman. after Jason flopped with the readers, the writers went ahead and did a 180° with Tim. he was created with the idea of someone who was nearly perfect for the position. someone smart, adaptable, charismatic, and likeable. and hey, it worked really well when he came out, too!

this really makes Tim standout from the other Robins, though. sure, being Robin was definitely a learning process, and it's not like he immediately knew how to do everything right off the bat, but he learned quick! like, really quick! there wasn't necessarily an urgent need for him to take up a new title as a way to show he's "grown up" because he's already mature as hell as is. what's there to progress to when he was literally molded for this?

now, the issue of Red Robin. Tim took up that title in a time of pure crisis. the mantle was born out of grief, anger, and the desperation to bring Bruce back home, no matter what. Anyone who's read the Red Robin comics can tell you how he was crashing out throughout it. through my eyes, if he's ever to drop the Robin mantle, it certainly shouldn't be to go back to Red Robin. Does that mean I think he should stay Robin forever? No! Course not!! but I also think the writers need to pause and actually think about the kind of character his is before deciding to make a mantle that's purely Tim, if that makes any sense.

all that aside, it's important to acknowledge that Tim started off as a narrative tool. a support character ready to go at any given moment through other people's stories, not just Batman. countless times we see DC utilizing Tim just to progress the plot, which isnt inherently a bad thing, but it does explain why he's such a wild card in the comics lol

his character changed a LOT from the 90s to the 00s, and he's gone from a character at Batman's side 24/7 to a character who gets sidelined more often than not. and with everything else going on in DC rn, im not surprised he hasn't been in the spotlight for a hot second. but hey, i heard there's some possible content coming out for him this and the upcoming years so yay?

final thoughts: it'd be pretty fucking hard for a writer to properly write a good transition for Tim from Robin to something new. he can't be Robin forever, obviously, but there's no reason to put such a rush on it, especially when DC seems to forget his portrayal 90% of the time lmao. anyway i love tim sm

I hope this ramble made the slightest sense it's the middle of the goddamn night and the words are starting to blur together

[wandixx]

Greeting comrades,

I’m Wandixx, Polish history enthusiast, baby writer and budding artist. Grab your tea/coffee/juice or whatever else beverage you favor and let’s go!

I’m part of the DPxDC fandom so my fics are from here. And this list exists so we all can find anything on this blog, welcome!

Here is my AO3:

My finished fics/prompt fills:

“Blood Blossom”:

Desperate times require desperate solutions. When, after escaping GIW, Danny gets trapped by the Justice League, he has only one way to get out of it. Eating a Blood Blossom. (this one includes a sad and happy ending!)

“Contingencies”:

Danny lives with Bats and it all seems to go pretty well. Until they find his contingency plans, including ones against himself, that were just over glorified suicide to-do list. How the hell are they supposed to handle that (that’s a chunky boi, over 20k)

"(Don't) Leave me here alone" (previously "You'll never find the answers")

M'gann was having an amazing day. She met with her civilian friends, drank an amazing smoothie, saw a cute dog. For a few hours, she didn't have to think about problems that took more than 20 minutes to solve. For a few hours, she could just be Megan. And then there was a scream of a woman, mother, who thought too loud and faded too fast and M'gann wasn't enough to save her and it made her whole world come crashing down. And then Danny found her, with a soft smile and patient voice. He kneeled beside her to pick up the pieces. And shards cut them both in the process. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 AO3 link Art by Clockworkclown

“Ghost of fries and hero of cookies”

Duke wasn't expecting to wake up from his quick rooftop nap to some meta kid with fries. He also wasn't expecting kid to stay Or Danny asked Dani to stay safe while she was in Gotham. Where would she be safer than under the wing of a local hero? And he looked like he needed a bad day combo anyway. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, art AO3 link

“Reverse summoning”:

It’s always DC characters summoning Danny. How about we do this another way around? Danny was desperate for a mentor and help (and some cold medicine). How- What- Why is Wonder Woman standing in his bedroom? 

“Unknown, the Wandering Hero”:

Unknown was what Justice League called the friendly anonymous hero, who kept helping them with ghosts. Only one with powers working on them. It just turns out, they were much younger than everyone expected. Danny went through a lot lately and the less people knew who he was, the less likely he was to return to the operating table.

M'gannxDanny one-shots: (their ship name is 💚Spearmint💚) (I love them so much, can you tell?)

"M'gann and curious case of disappearing cities"

M'gann was bored out of her mind and her monitoring shift with Green Arrow just started! Sure, it was important thing to learn and all, but also just a bit more interesting than drying paint. And then entire city just disappeared from the feed, so she stormed out to investiagate. And it went downhill from there

"Fight over the Mars"

Danny was ambushed by Vlad when he was minding his own buisness. It wouldn't be unusual if he didn't have a portal gun, that send them all over the world and then to the freaking Mars. And then Miss Martian showed up. Yeah, Danny was absolutely normal about that part

"Relationship reveal with ghost summoning on the side"

Young Justice fumbled a bit a mission involving the cult. Yeah, they managed to summon the wish granting ghost and only Aqualad had a way to touch her. Not the best look... But then Miss Martian said she had an idea! The idea was to summon another ghost... And it worked and he attacked the first ghost! Wait, when exactly did petnames get on the table?!

"Date in the Ghost Zone"

Danny loves Ghost Zone. Especially Far Frozen, where he found almost second family. Danny also loves M'gann, his amazing girlfriend, for who he'd go to the end of world and back. It was only fair he introduced one to another.

"Relationship reveal with a side of mind-control (or really the other way around)"

M'gann didn't need to be a psychic to see that something was wrong. She didn't need to be one of Phantom's closest friends and know that whatever was going on was against his basic principles. She maybe even didn't need to be his girlfriend, with added bonus of being intimitely familiar with his eyes, which were decidedly never red. Team was none of it, of course, so they assumed it was a villain attack. M'gann was all of that, so she could help.

Actively posted fics:

"GIW made a lot of mistakes and the biggest one was going against Young Justice" (may change hah)

Young Justice wanted a chill afternoon for once, hanging out at amusment park. And then, Danny was attacked by some freaks in white suits. Well, it seems there are villains to make fun of and... did somone mention ✨an evil lab✨? part 1, part 2

"There is only so much you can do for the dead"

Phantom asked for a small favour from the Team. Just one room, for one day. Easy enough. The room he planned to spent his Death Day in. Nobody was quite ready for that. part 1, part 2

"Count the freckles, connect them like the stars"

Five time Danny found and drew constellations from M'gann's freckles and one time she did that for him Virgo (part 1), Pisces (part 2)

Stuff that I shared snippets of/will get updated maybe some day:

"Danny and Wally are chaos incarnate"

"Seriously chaotic fashion misadventures" (Dani x Damian little fluff)

"Danny, the Young Justice member" random ideas part 1, part 2, part 3, part 4

Mr. J'onzz meet ghost and a half

Christmas in Mount Justice

The stuff I have somewhere on paper and would love to share if asked.

Make yourself at home, and I hope you’ll like it here!

[vulture-venom]

Hello! Hope you’re doing well. Okay, might be much to ask & someone may have asked before. But JPV sounds so cool but pretty underrated. I know of him & some facts but not a lot! I’d be so intrigued to learn more if you’d like to talk about it! 

What comics of his would you recommend?

Your fave things about him (though I’d be hard, I’m sure).

Also I remember him & Leslie Thompkins having a unique + sorta interesting relationship. She was kinda motherly to him (but also a lot. Not to ramble bout her but I think she’s complex & interesting but dc sometimes does portray her off. Adore her)

Hmm, what do you wish people knew about him more? Misconceptions you hate? 

His relationship with the other bats? 

I hope these aren’t too many questions! Thanks 

Hello, Anon! These aren’t too many questions at all, I love talking about JPV 🙏 there’s a part two to this if you check the reblogs.

So for his core reading I recommend:

-Batman: Sword of Azrael. His first appearance and one of my favorite comics ever. It’s a 4 issue mini series, so it’s not incredibly long, but it helps you understand the fundamentals of Jean Paul and Azrael as characters (there is a distinction between the two). It also explains things like “the system” and “the Order of St. Dumas” which are incredibly important to his lore.

-Batman Prelude to Knightfall/Knightfall/Knightquest/Knightsend: The Knightfall saga is absolutely fantastic and holds a great significance in the Batman mythos. It’s the story of Bane “breaking the Bat” and having Jean Paul step in to take over as Batman while he heals. It’s an excellent deconstruction of what Batman is, the failings of antiheroes, how Bruce’s particular mindset allows him to be Batman, and the importance of fathers and legacies (or lack thereof). It is also very important to Dick Grayson and Tim Drake as characters as it marks the start of Tim’s Robin run and leads into Batman Prodigal where Dick becomes Batman.

-Showcase ‘94 #10: Not exactly a required read, but I personally recommend it. It is a short intermittent story about the aftermath of Jean Paul’s tenure as Batman and exactly what happens to him when he leaves the Batcave. Adds some context for Azrael #1 as well.

-Azrael (1995)/Azrael Agent of the Bat: His 100 issue solo series! It starts off as Azrael then later is renamed Azrael Agent of the Bat about halfway through. It can technically be read without the prior knowledge of Knightfall, but I would strongly recommend reading the Knightfall saga first even if it’s long because it is a very big moment for JPV/AZ. His solo explores a lot, it continues to sort of pick apart antiheroes and explore things like redemption and pacifism, nurture vs nature, self identity, the corruption that comes with absolute power, etc. It crosses over into a lot of bigger arcs (Contagion, No Man’s Land, Bruce Wayne Murderer, etc etc) and it wouldn’t hurt to read them in their entirety separate of Azrael but ultimately isn’t really needed. Just adds some context for the things Azrael doesn’t explain. His solo series at times can be a little frustrating and the writing is somewhat inconsistent but if you are interested enough in JPV you sit through it.. it’s slop but it’s our slop. It also has three annuals and two one shots! They aren’t very important other than Azrael annual #1 because it talks about his father but they’re all pretty fun stories. His one shots and annuals are:

-Azrael Year one (very important imo)

-Azrael Annual #2 (very fantastical and campy but there’s definitely some meat to it if you really pick it apart)

-Azrael Annual #3 (silly oneshot mission with him and Catwoman)

-Azrael/Ash (team up)

-Azrael + The Question (team up)

-Azrael #1000000000 (a part of the one million series, no real importance or significance it’s just a kind of silly futuristic story)

After Agent of the Bat he isn’t really relevant until Blackest Night where they bring him back. I won’t lie to you, most of his comics after the big reboot for the New 52 and everything are completely out of character and very disappointing reads. There are some that are pretty good though and are my personal favorite modern JPV/Azrael stories:

-Azrael Dark Knight of the Soul: This sort of sets the standard for all modern Jean Paul stories. It’s short, just a miniseries from Batman Urban Legends but definitely a worthwhile read.

-Arkham City Order of the World: This explores Azrael himself more than Jean Paul, it weaponizes his righteous fury and just sort of points him like a loaded gun. It is a verrryy interesting read even outside of Azrael, the art and the “villains” are so cool.

-Saved by the Belle Reve: An anthology of a few stories but the one with Jean Paul is called “How Angels are Made.” It talks a bit about his more modernized backstory and what shaped him as a child.

-Sword of Azrael (2022): 100% his best post-reboot storyline. It hits just about every mark I’d want from an Azrael storyline and introduces some new lore for the modern origins of Azrael and the Order of St. Dumas. It does slightly twist some of the older 90s lore but it is good enough that I could look past that.. It introduces some really interesting characters and Jean Paul’s newest supporting cast which are very well suited to him. I’d maybe recommend reading Catwoman’s 2021 annual before this, just for a bit more context, but that annual doesn’t touch on Jean Paul himself as much as it explains the connection between him and a new ally and gives some background information for the Order of St. Dumas itself. Sword of Azrael 2022 goes back to themes we’re familiar with, forgiveness and redemption, self identity, but it ultimately ends in acceptance and catharsis which is something very new for Jean Paul and Azrael as characters and was so narratively satisfying.

-He’s briefly in Gotham Nocturne as well, mainly Detective Comics #1076-#1089. Nocturne revisits some of my favorite Jean Paul/Azrael batfamily dynamics and sort of establishes which characters are really fit to succeed Batman (in my totally unbiased opinion….).

Overall, I prefer his 90-early 2000s characterization but once he’s reintroduced in modern comics, anything written by or in association with Dan Watters is very good. I think out of all the writers who have taken a stab at bringing Jean Paul and Azrael back into relevance, he has done it the best. By FAR.

As far as my favorite things about him go… I really love that he is someone who isn’t perfect. Which, every character has flaws, obviously, but there isn’t a single Batfamily member that I think is as deeply lost and struggling with their morality as Jean Paul is. He’s stuck between violence and pacifism, sometimes he relishes in fighting, other times he feels extremely guilty and considers abandoning heroism altogether. He’s a very unique character and brings a lot to the “Batfam” table that I don’t think anyone else really does! He is terrible at his job, he is lame, he is confused, he is difficult to trust but he’s sometimes the most competent and reliable person you know. He has a sort of gentleness as Jean Paul that is so sweet and you can’t help but feel awful for him when you see him go through all these terrible things and struggle to balance being Azrael with being Jean Paul. He is a narrative parallel to Dick Grayson but where Dick excels, Jean Paul falls flat 90% of the time. He’s volatile as Azrael, he’s pitiful as Jean Paul, he’s desperate and lonely and searching for direction. He struggles and suffers in ways that are not pretty. He is someone so very sympathetic while also being so frustrating. He does things, both as Jean Paul and Azrael, that make you want to beat him into the ground, but you can’t help but feel for him and want to see him succeed even though he never will. It’s like betting on a horse who will lose every race just because the horse has a good nature to it. He is very selfish at times and even his acts of good are only done because they somehow appeal to his emotions or he gets something out of it. But other ones he’s so very compassionate and would give you the clothes off his back. He is soo complex and there’s so many layers to him and Azrael.. he has such a unique story and relationships with everyone and it just immediately sucked me in. I literally never had an interest in reading Azrael but once I had read Batman Sword of Azrael I was like.. genuinely enchanted. He is so very compelling while also just being some guy. He is capable of destroying everything around him or being the best hero in Gotham.. but ultimately is very middle of the road because of internal struggles and it is just so.. shaking him around. He’s so compelling. He is very fun to analyze and pick apart. Probably one of the most interesting Gotham vigilantes (⬅️ completely objective and not founded upon my own clear interest in him).

Now his dynamics with other characters.. ohh there’s a lot to say here. Especially touching on Leslie and Bruce but we’ll start with Leslie.

Leslie meets him in the No Man’s Land, which if you’re unfamiliar, is a somewhat post-apocalyptic Gotham suffering from the aftermath of an earthquake which they dubbed the cataclysm. As Jean Paul, he is very eager to help Leslie and she is very caring towards him. There is absolutely a mother-son bond here, she says she loves Jean Paul. Personally, I’ve always viewed her relationship with him as a sort of way to make up for not being able to steer Bruce away from violence. Jean Paul is someone who is a bit distressed by the hurt he causes (less because he had done it and more because he doesn’t feel bad about it but that’s another thing entirely) and she tries to steer him towards pacifism and medicine so that he can help in ways other than fighting. Jean Paul and Azrael are ultimately two sides of the same coin and he can never just.. stop being Azrael, since it is quite literally part of him, but he tries. He tries for Leslie, and Leslie sees Jean Paul in this very caring and understanding light that I don’t think any other character really does. She defends him to Bruce, tells Bruce he is to blame for Jean Paul’s struggles, she tries to steer Jean Paul towards the path to pacifism, she celebrates his “first” birthday with him. She is his rock, probably the most important person to him. She is dependable when no one else is, he trusts her completely. She does have some clear judgements of Jean Paul, more accurately Azrael, but is mostly supportive in her approach to helping and working with him. Especially when you consider the lack of kindness Jean Paul has come to expect from “authority figures,” Leslie is a breath of fresh air which was absolutely needed for Jean Paul.

Leslie and Bruce I’d say are like the Angel and Devil on his shoulder, but ultimately both have this very polarized view on helping people and are more so imposing their ideals onto Jean Paul than trying to help him with his own (100% Bruce is more guilty of this than Leslie, but I digress). They expect him to choose one or the other and don’t exactly understand that he can’t. He wants to, but it just isn’t possible for him. They have these pretty black and white views but Jean Paul is a very grey character so he’s torn between the two.

Batman…now there is a LOT to say about this one. It’s got so many layers to it and it’s founded upon distrust but also compassion, and a sense of necessity. They are almost father and son, but not quite. They are almost equal partners, but not really. He is both terribly important to Bruce, but also someone Bruce feels relatively little guilt about manipulating. They meet at a spectacularly low point for Jean Paul, he had just lost his father (literally died right in front of him. In Jean Paul’s bed), learned that he was brainwashed from childhood to be an assassin, and recently discovered an alter. He is pretty lost and without direction, which Bruce tries to give him. Bruce makes him a security guard at Wayne Enterprises, he has Tim train Jean Paul (Robin and his grown ass student), they give him a new suit. He starts to get Jean Paul “on the right track” but it doesn’t do much to help Jean Paul with all the trauma he’s endured, so he is still not the most mentally sound at the time. When Bruce is paralyzed by Bane, he gives the very lost, clearly unwell Jean Paul the cowl. His reasoning for this is that he can’t give it to Dick because “Nightwing is his own man” but he clearly has no qualms passing it to JPV.. if that tells you anything about his views of the two. Jean Paul revered Bruce as this sort of father figure because he was the one guiding Jean Paul after his own dad’s death. bruce shapes his morality, gives him purpose, and then gives him a sense of identity (Batman) which Jean Paul had previously lost. Being Batman is obviously not good for JPV. He starts gradually slipping and pushing away some of Bruce’s allies (Robin, Gordon, Catwoman) and isolating himself while he tries to fully immerse himself in the identity of Batman. I’d argue that Azbats is more Azrael adjacent, if not his own persona entirely, but that isn’t to say Jean Paul had no agency or is free of guilt. He quite literally starts hallucinating his dead dad referring to Bruce as a “false father” and saying JPV is shaping himself in his image. He cuts his hair to look like Bruce, mimics Bruce’s voice, wears a Bruce’s suit (until he makes his own), lives in the Batcave (and Wayne Manor, by extension), carries on Bruce’s legacy. He is Batman. And it all just festers until eventually he reaches this breaking point. He is nothing if not Batman and Bruce (understandably) attempts to take the mantle away from him once Bruce is healed. This creates a sort of identity crisis for Jean Paul, who had been basing his whole life around being Batman for the past year or so. They fight and their whole battle is such a rich and powerful thing.. you have to see it to really get it all but there’s so much to take from it. Bruce’s perspective on JPV, JPV’s views on fathers and on being Batman, etc. Bruce chooses to spare Jean Paul and let him go after their fight, acknowledging that Jean Paul was lost and needed to see the light. Jean Paul is then homeless for six months and Bruce does absolutely nothing about this. for six months. During his struggles with homelessness and coming down from being Batman, he is once again, at an all time low and given direction again by Batman. Given identity by Batman. Bruce comes back, out of a sense of guilt and responsibility, and gives Jean Paul a reconstructed Azrael suit, some money, and a mission to go find the Order of St. Dumas. After Jean Paul completes this task he continues to go to Bruce for help, Bruce usually says no but still helps in some roundabout way after completely shutting down Jean Paul. He keeps Jean Paul at an emotional distance and they never quite bridge this gap between the two of them. He goes to Bruce out of a need for guidance and approval, Bruce usually doesn’t really give him that. Bruce comes to him and gives him a task that always benefits Bruce, the cycle repeats. He admits to using Jean Paul, and Jean Paul allows himself to be used because he cares for Bruce (and Bruce, in his own special Batman way, does care about him. A lot, strangely).

[bestjeanistmonster]

hey I always wandered why do you chose certain characters in roles for your DC au like sonic as Harley Quinn or knuckles as bat man?

also I love your content btw!

usually i just choose what character roles i think would be interesting to explore for that character, or just what would be most fun

like when you think of Sonic in the dc universe you would instantly think ‘ok he would be the flash’, and its true that he would probably make a pretty good flash and a good story could come out of that, or maybe making Amy ‘harley quinn’ and again lots of character stuff you could do with that

But those options kinda just. write themselves tbh, its a bit too easy for me to just choose those options and call it a day cuz just looking at them you’d get their entire deal.

So when im choosing character roles im basically asking myself, not just ‘what sonic character would fit in this dc role the best’ but ‘what would this specific sonic character have to do/go through to become some version of this character’ or ‘what how would this dc role have to be moulded to fit this sonic character’

lets take Shadow for example!

he was the first person i made Shadow would obviously be batman, just looking at him and his backstory he would make an amazing batman, he fits that pretty well no question

but at the time i made Shadow poison ivy, i was reading the the comic series ‘Poison Ivy: The Virtuous Cycle’, it went into detail into Ivy’s hatred for humanity and how they’re destroying the planet, and how she plans to kill all of them off (including herself) in order to save it. It was so interesting to think about her hatred for humanity this way, so interesting that my brain was like ‘wow if when shadow woke up from his cryostasis and learnt all this he’d probably wanna kill humanity even more lol’

then i thought about it more, Poison Ivy cares deeply for the environment and basically wants to kill all humans cuz they’re destroying the planet and giving Shadow that role kinda adds another layer to that because human’s are destroying the world that Maria so desperately wanted to see and he can literally feel the planet dying cuz of that plant connection + the fact that he was created artificially in a lab by humans (plus alien deadbeat) away from the planet and having that intrinsic connection to that planet below the Ark his whole life, a direct connection to the planet that Maria loved so much, a connection that he would’ve never fully known the extent of if GUN hadn’t raided.

So what if wanting to destroy the planet, he wanted to save it and to save it he had eradicated a certain ‘infestation’, humanity.

that was super interesting to me to explore as a concept so Poison Ivy!Shadow, the first character in my dc au was born!!!

it’s important to me that though im making Shadow and Ivy have the same role im not just copypasting Ivy’s backstory onto Shadow, they’re different characters and those backstories aren’t necessarily interchangeable, different things happened to make them who they are and one might not work for the other.

And if i do make the backstory similar, i wanna make changes so i can justify why they made these choices, like with what i did Sonic

Sonic’s dc au backstory follows similar beats as Harley Quinn’s backstory, but i added some details make it more believable for me to understand how Sonic could ever became what Harleen Quinzel became. So i started him out Nicky from the sonic manga, an insecure, weak, nerdy kid that’s easy for people to beat up and pick on, so he’d be someone with vulnerabilities and insecurities. Then i had Tails and Amy be his number 1 protectors cuz he can’t protect himself, his insecurities deepening cuz of this (not only can he not protect himself, he doesn’t even have the strength to protect them), he lived in the worst place in gotham, etc. Basically a lot of stuff that Eggman could use to exploit and manipulate him.

this made it really interesting and fun for me to delve into his mindset and see how he would tick!

then from Sonic’s kidnapping came Tails and Amy’s motivations to become vigilantes, to save their friend, people like their friend and to stop people like the joker from hurting them

other times times i just make the choices based on vibes and what would fit the plot <3

this character exploration and thinking process is why i personally don’t allow ppl to make character suggestions for any of my aus, cuz its really a personal process of picking out roles and dissecting them in my brain

but yh that’s pretty much why i picked who i picked lol

ty for the question!

[noctispuffin]

Danny Phantom x Dc universe crossover

Hey Guys, I've been captured by the hyperfixation train as you can probably tell what it is from above. I have started writing out a fic and just wanted to post the beginning of what I have here to get a general consensus before I think of publishing it on AO3.

So Long summary short, it's gonna be braindead pairing (Tim/Danny). The general ideas I have going so far are as follows.

Notes/plans for Future chapters: -captured by giw (gonna work on some gore, get that absolute hate going for them, and we all love the autopsy scar) -cosmic/eldritch horror danny (later in fic/Series)

maybe trans danny -ghost cannibalism

revenant red hood

liminal amity parkers

constantine/ soul fragments

ghost politics

coffee Is ambrosia

17yr old danny/ 17 year old Tim Drake

summoning - jl bashing

scarred danny

ghouls Are Trapped By The Bound. -ghouls are the boogeyman of the infinite realms -ghouls feed off the life force of other beings -ghouls use spiders as spies -All realms have spiders/ Spider adjacent creatures.

There will be Oc Villians and Characters later in the Story

So yeah Long post but here is the beginning of chapter 1.

Waking up with a raging headache was not fun. He was dead. Or half dead at least. Headaches should not be an issue. Also, A. He was missing his coffee. B. He was tied to a chair in some… Funhouse? Warehouse?? and C. His. Coffee. Was. Missing.

Now don't get him wrong the tied-to-a-chair thing was rather important but being who he was it wasn't the first time it's happened and it won't be the last. Now the lack of "guys in white" was a bonus, as it means his identity is still intact at least but that doesn't rule out any of the other usual suspects. However, the Funhouse or warehouse… (seriously what's with all the weird clown-themed shit??) atmosphere was at least a little off-putting.

He frowns a bit as he looks out from beneath his bangs at the large area, boxes, and crates pushed out of the way to the sides of the warehouse. Nothing particularly menacing persay… if you could ignore the fruitloop standing 10 feet in front of him in the plum tuxedo with wild green hair, and holding a comically large red button monologuing to a camera.

A Camera.

Shit.

That means he can't just up and leave, even if this is Eisenhower he can't just leave and reveal his identity as Phantom or add any more suspicion to Danny Fenton. The GIW were dumb but they weren't that dumb.

He heaves a deep sigh and decides to at least get this dumb interaction over with.. Maybe he can make this freak knock the camera over cause he's almost entirely sure that the camera is still functioning enough to send out a signal if the red light on it meant anything.

"Freakshow what the hell. Look, We get it circus gothica-" He snaps his mouth shut as the man turns to look at him with a small glare and a deranged smile.

That.

That was most definitely not Eisinhowen. Not unless he somehow managed to fuck up his pale ass face more than it already was.. were… were those scars??!! up his cheeks?!! What the fuuuuck…

"It seems ladybirds and gentle bats that our esteemed guest has finally awoken from his beauty sleep!! What do you have to say to the people of Gotham Young Timothy Drake?!" The man (- the Joker. OH fuuuuuck This is the Joker!!!-) cackles to the camera as he makes a grand sweeping gesture towards him.

Wait, how did he get to Gotham?? -- Not the time.

"who?"

Ok well, that wasn't the smartest response he has ever come up with.

"Wh- What do you mean? Who? WHO?? What is this some sort of knock knock joke?" The clown looks at him and deflates slightly with his confusion before he shakes himself, fixes the lapels of his suit and turns back to the camera with a large smile and a deranged cackle.

"Well, it seems the young CEO has some gal to him! What’s to say I finish this knock-knock joke with a punch line hmm? Better hurry Batsy you know how much I love a good punchline." He giggles with a smile - giggles? seriously?? How much creepier can clowns get-

"Look uh… Joker right? I think you have the wrong person" He starts off, slowly speaking as if he were talking to a particularly unstable ghost. Only to cut himself off at the gun that swiftly appears out of the clown's suit and is pointed directly at his head.

“You have half an hour, Bats. Half an hour before the smart mouth here learns what the taste of good old-fashioned lead tastes like.” The clown's smile just grows ever wider as he takes a few dancing steps towards him.

He feels his mouth pull into a disgusted grimace as the barrel of the gun swings around to tap him on the forehead as the creep gets closer to him.

“Look-” He tries to start again, his view of the camera obscured by the gaudy purple suit and painted face hosting wild eyes.

BANG

He doesn’t flinch. He doesn’t. That would be silly. He was already half dead. There is no way that a simple bullet through his frontal lobe, mixing the grey and white matter of his brain together with a burning efficiency and the fury of a fire would kill him fully.. Right? When did he close his eyes?? Fuck this asshole was laughing again..

His blue eyes opened slowly and trail to the sting along his left temple. The gun was aimed just to the left of his forehead and there was some sort of sharp metal rod with a piece of fabric hanging from the end laying along the stinging, and now he was pretty sure bleeding along his temple.

“Hehe! Whoopsies!” The red of the clowns painted smile seemed to crack a bit as he leaned away and waved the gun around, splattering small drops of red blood from the-

Was that a fucking prop gun?! With the whole stick with the bang flag on it?? Wtf…

“This thing just has a mind of its own!” The freakshow look alike turned back to the camera with that deranged smile of his.

“Now as I was saying, As much as i'm sure Mr. Wayne would like for you to come and rescue him, you my little friends have some more important things to be dealing with!” The man strides away and grabs the camera swinging it away from Danny so it could focus solely on what seemed to be some sort of pipebomb- no- time bomb? Bomb. Was attached to a crate full of gas cylinders.

“This is one of many I have set up at certain places in the city. Detonated, of course, by the timer running out. You only have enough time to find and disarm all of them or save the poor soul of this child. See cause if you miss even one bomb, well they all go off. Disarm all of them or None of them!! HAha! Now I'd hurry along. The timer has already begun!!” The joker slams the camera back into place on the tripod so that both Danny and the digital clock behind him are visible.

He keeps his face carefully neutral as he watches the Joker waltz past him to presumably where the exit is located in this mess of a warehouse. He can hear the distant sounds of a door slamming and a large padlock clicking shut before a car starts up and drives off.

Well. This is not how he expected to spend his evening.

Last thing he remembered was trying to put together how much savings he had saved up so he could visit Jazz at college and meeting with his mom and dad for his birthday supper at nasty burger… After that it just became fuzzy and when he tried to think harder his head started to pound and the stinging of his temple seemed to double in intensity. Weird.. Not the current concern though. Time to get out of here. He couldn’t see the clock from where he was tied up but he could assume it probably wasn’t the most gracious amount of time.

He shifted back to lean into the back of the chair and wiggled his hands and fingers to figure out just how tight he was tied up. Tight but not terrible. He still had the normal amount of decreased blood flow in his hands. So, not as tight as the GIW goons like to do them but tight enough to bruise his skin.

Scowling lightly, his left hand phased through the ropes with little issue before bringing both arms around front to wiggle his torso out of the rooms holding him to the chair. His legs took a bit more work from slightly numb fingers to work the knots open and free his legs.

Pushing himself to his feet and nearly falling flat on his face was a surprise however. His legs felt like dead weight. Pins and needles starting in his thighs alerting him to the lack of blood flow to his lower half. His legs were.. Asleep? That was not normal. With his slowed heart rate and half dead metabolism the only times that ever happened was when he was with nocturne and went into a more “dead sleep” as he liked to call it. Usually the ancient would help him wake up before it got that far though..

Letting go of the chair that he had used to catch himself and half shuffling half limping over to the camera he scowled at the older model and flipped the screen so he could see what was being recorded.

A very static filled screen with hints of warehouse at the edges. Perfect. That was normal at least then, well normal for him around non ecto- contaminated electronics. He stepped back towards the chair and watched the static recede with his figure from the camera. Alright, hopefully this works.

“Hey uh.. Look I am not who he thinks I am? I am fine, I'll disarm the bomb here as best I can and then I’ll head out.. It seems like we are by a river? So I am hoping no workers are around but better to get rid of the thing, am I right?” He chuckled nervously, hand coming up to wipe at the beads of blood trailing down his cheek.

“So uh yeah Ill just do that and go? Uhh.. Yeah bye.” He nods a bit as he walks back to it and shuts the camera off.

Alright disarming a bomb.. It can’t be that hard can it? The mess of wires and C4 clay connecting the bomb and the cylinders looked more like a mess of silly string and playdoh than anything. Well it was more intuitive than the wiring his dad used at least.

Alright so that one to there.. That one connects the detonator and the… Right. Ok looks like separating the yellow and purple wires from the timer and the green and red from the detonator and back up detonator should prevent this thing from turning this entire area into a gas covered crater. Hopefully.

Using his fingers he disconnects the first two wires from each other only swearing slightly when electricity races through the wires and singes his fingertips. He sucks on the finger that got the worst of it before turning his other hand invisible and pushing it into the bomb to disconnect the wires hidden within the clay casing without disturbing anything that would set the backup detonator off.

“Fucking clowns… Robbing banks, kidnapping people, and now bombs.. Of all the things that could make me hate clowns more..” He grumbled around his finger under his breath as he observed the bomb closely and used his enhanced hearing to listen for the tell tale buzz of the still live bomb.

Silence.

Good. Now to get the hell outta dodge and figure out a way back to Amity.

And maybe pick up another coffee.

He wiped his fingers on his now rumpled jeans and dirty shirt before walking directly through the wall out to the side of the warehouse.

Tim was a smart kid. Sure he could get a little.. Exuberant, when something caught his attention. But that was normal. Completely normal. So maybe he gets a little sleep deprived now and then and maybe a little dehydrated, but that doesn’t mean anything!

Any person would stay up for 4 days straight to figure out why the riddler changed the font of his riddles to make sure it wasn’t some convoluted plan that meant he was working with some cult or was a clone working as a distraction for something larger!!

So sue him for drinking from a random coffee in the mess of half empty mugs in the hidden study he was working in, that may and or may not (read: definitely was) laced with enough melatonin and benadryl to knock out a horse while he was distracted with a case.

That was 13 hours ago.

Waking up from a sleep like that can always be a little disorienting. So when the silence of the manor finally reaches his muddled mind through the thick fog of sleep he immediately clocks something as wrong and is fighting to wake himself up fully. He narrows his eyes at the cups around him before pushing himself up and stumbling down the halls to the kitchen where he can grab a can of cold coffee from Dick’s stash hidden in the locked minifridge.

A few good sips from that has him at least alert enough to clock once again just how quiet and still the manor is. Now to be fair the manor was always a revolving door for the Wayne family and friends. But the only people who were often living here were him, Alfred, Bruce, and the demon brat.

Even with such a big place like the manor he should at least be able to pick up the tell tale signs of Bruce listening to music while doing paperwork or Alfred moving around the manor cleaning, or even the demon Brat playing with his menagerei or working with his literal arsenal of sharp weapons in his room.

Now, Silence.

Ok so based on his phone he was out for about 13 hours. That wasn’t all that long. He had gone longer without checking in so it's not like B had everyone panicking looking for him.. But where was everyone?

He lifted the cold coffee to his lips again and reveled in the bitter taste for a second before starting off towards the cave. It was probably fine. They were probably just out on patrol and Alfred was probably out doing something or other..

The cave was in a state of pandemonium. Well as much pandemonium as could be considered as such for the bat family. B, Dick, Steph and Damian were all standing staring up at the main computer. Well Dick was holding on to the hood of Damian who looked like he was trying to escape the grasp to get to his weapons and Bruce looked downright murderous. Even Dick and Steph looked pissed off.

The lilting and crazed sound of the joker's laugh echoed in the cavernous space of the cave and his scarred face and lithe body filled up most of the screen. He seems to have wandered in, just in the middle of the Clowns next big scheme. Great.

"Well, it seems the young CEO has some gal to him! What’s to say I finish this knock-knock joke with a punch line hmm? Better hurry Batsy you know how much I love a good punchline."

CEO huh? Wonder who he grabbed this time, he scowls slightly as he takes another sip of the cold drink only to choke as Joker steps aside and he catches a glimpse of himself?!!

He coughs sharply and feels 4 pairs of sharp eyes swing to him. Out of the corner of his eye he can see 3 sets of shoulders relax slightly and 1 set of suspicious eyes immediately start ping ponging between the screen and him as he works to clear his windpipe of cold brew.

“What the fu-” He starts to cough out before being interrupted by Not Tim.

"Look uh… Joker right? I think you have the wrong person" Not Tim starts as the camera tries to focus on them but seems to have difficulty as the picture around him is warped and covered in pixels and static. Even his voice had a slightly warped and staticky quality to it.

Shit. Everyone in Gotham knows not to give the joker sass.

“You have half an hour, Bats. Half an hour before the smart mouth here learns what the taste of good old-fashioned lead tastes like.” The joker cuts the guy off as he takes a few steps towards the man. And man he was.. Damn he looked skinny and honestly not that great from the little bits and pieces he could see of him through the static and distortion but the closer the Joker got to the kid the more the static seemed to open up a bit.

All eyes are drawn back to the Joker as he pulls his revolver from his coat pocket and aims it at what he can only assume is the other boy's forehead. Bruce- No Batman, the cowl and uniform were on. Was already leaping into the batmobile and Robin and spoiler weren’t far behind him. Here’s hoping Oracle had already pinpointed the location this was at, but it was unlikely even B and the others would get there in time to save this kid from Joker's wrath.

“Look-” the kid tries again and he can hear the slight waver in their voice as the Joker obscures the camera’s view of the kid.

He feels his jaw tick as he looks back up the screen, feet slowly carrying him up to the platform to stand just behind Dick as they watch the unfolding scene. The pixelation and distortion of the screen was visible in an almost halo effect around the joker as he stands just in front of the boy. The boy was completely obscured but the joker was perfectly clear.. Well about as clear as an old video camera got. Looked like from the quality like it was an old D90 digital point and shoot.

Not known for having video problems like this though..

BANG.

He scowls looking directly at the screen even as his stomach rolls slightly, expecting to see the blood start dripping down the guys pixelated form and his head to be forced back by the metal pole from which Joker had probably skewered him with his gag gun.

Blood and guts weren’t exactly a new thing to him and his siblings. Especially not in this profession. Not in this town..

““Hehe! Whoopsies!” The lack of blood that he is seeing as the Joker laughs and steps back enough for them to get a quick view of the form before the pixels swarm back in to obscure him.

“This thing just has a mind of its own!” The Joker prattles on as he reaches past Dick to press a few keys on the keyboard and bring up a still shot of the somewhat blurry but probably the clearest view they have had of the person tied up so far. It sits hovering in the left corner as the Joker goes on to prattle about his plans for destroying the city or the bats or whatever in the background.

“Now as I was saying, As much as i'm sure Mr. Wayne would like for you to come and rescue him, you my little friends have some more important things to be dealing with!”

“Mr. Wayne?” he says quietly to Dick who was standing beside him leaning forwards to look closer at the screen.

“Thinks it’s you apparently.” He responds sounding confused himself as he glances between the still shot and Tim with narrowed eyes.

He just shakes his head slightly as he starts running the still shot through the city's databases. He hears Oracle reporting sites of possible bombs to B and the others as Dick stands up and walks off to get on his bike to go help.

“Nightwing you're with Red who I hear is completely fine by the way.” The voice says pointedly as Tim slides a com into his ear.

“Hey it's not my fault you guys thought it was me!” He retorts as he slips into his uniform and starts his bike to follow Nightwing out of the cave towards the docks.

“Oh Noooo It's not like the black haired insomniac who went MIA for half a day definitely couldn’t be the Black haired unconscious insomniac tied up by The Joker of all people.” Jason retorts shortly through the comms as they pull away form the cave. He can see Dick smirk a bit as they make the trip over to the area Oracle sent them.

“Nice to hear from you too.” He snarks back slightly, even more annoyed now, knowing that even Jason was brought in on this. He did not need more blackmail for Todd to use against him. “Why is the walking dead helping anyways. Shouldn’t he be digging his own grave again?”

“Fuck you too replacement.” Comes the annoyed response.

“Enough.” B’s voice cuts across the banter. “While the unknown civilian was unconscious we could see him a lot better on camera. After being unable to contact and locate you we assumed the worst. Focus on your missions. I want all bombs and statuses related to Oracle as they are defused.” The communicator clicked slightly meaning he had been put back to a channel with only him and Nightwing and presumably Oracle if she was still listening, well she was always listening but not the point.

“Did they really look that much like me?” He asks after a few seconds of silent racing through the paved alleys and streets of gotham. The docks on the gotham river weren’t too far off he could smell it in the distance through his helmet. The building they were going to was in Gotham Proper (the lower of course).

“Yeah. They did.” Nightwing responds, his voice slightly strained showing that he was concerned that it really had been Tim kidnapped at the time.

“Huh..” Is all he can respond with as he thinks back to the still shot and pulls his bike to a stop behind Nightwing in the alley across from the building that Oracle sent them.

From the outside it was dark, not exactly clean and obviously uninhabited. The same couldn’t be said for the remainder of the buildings on the street. Light from covered windows and the distant rattle of a cart being dragged showed the life wading through the heavy atmosphere of Gotham lower.

Once Nightwing and him had gotten into the building and had located the bomb. Connected to laughing gas. New batch probably seeing as Robin and B had destroyed the last manufacturing plant. Which means no immediate antidote. Great.

He sighs as he pulls open his wrist computer to start analyzing the wiring only for his com to be reconnected with a flurry of activity from the others. Making him and Nightwing glance at each other as he worked on disarming the bomb in front of them.

“He’s escaped-”

“Not Possible-!!”

“He’s gonna get himself blown up?!!”

“Quiet.” The commanding voice of Batman broke across the chaos of the comms silencing all of the voices at once. No one wanted to cross a direct order from Batman.

“Oracle. What is going on.” He continued after a moment of silence.

“The civilian managed to escape his bonds and is going to attempt to defuse the bomb at the warehouse.” Her voice was calm and for the most part steady as they had all been trained to be when giving reports but the slight tremor was unmistakable. She was concerned.

To be fair, so was Tim. Who was this kid? Why did he think he could diffuse a bomb??! Especially one made to specifically lull those into a false sense of security only to blow up in your face a second later! A glance over at Nightwing showed he was just as concerned about the news as he was.

“Ill deal with it.” Batman’s voice responds after a brief pause and then the coms are silent once more aside from Oracle directing members of the bat family to the secondary bomb locations of those who had managed to defuse the initial ones.

He hissed softly as a sharp jolt manages to pierce his insulated gloves when he disconnects two of the wires. He can feel Nightwing’s eyes on the back of his head but he ignores the look and continues reaching further into the bomb to find the last 2 wires that had to be disconnected from the detonator and backup detonator.

He pulls his hand out and Nightwing reports that they defused the bomb getting an affirmative grunt from Batman.

“Bomb at the warehouse has already been defused. Civilian is no longer in the building or immediate area. Robin and I will go after the joker. Keep your eyes open for the civilian. I want them found. There was blood at the scene, they may need assistance.” Batman’s words are short and clipped but the concern and curiosity are there.

That only works to make Tims curiosity over this whole thing even worse.

After a brief discussion, Nightwing and him split up in hopes of covering more of Gotham to see if they can find this strange civilian. Oracle was going to keep an eye out on the cameras but Tim had his doubts that that would work with how the camera acted when it recorded the stranger.

Pausing on the edge of the roof he crouches down slightly to pull up the footage of the Jokers video before he got to the cave. All this concern over if this kid was him or not was starting to bug him. B and the others prided themselves on being able to pick out small details. Small differences. That is what made them such great detectives!

So how was it there was someone out there that looked exactly like him, was not in any of the records of Gotham and that also got captured by the joker? It just wasn’t plausible!

Now sure dopplegangers, clones, shapeshifting aliens, those were all things that came with the lifestyle and things that they had encountered and dealt with but usually with all that they tended to claim that they were the original.

Well most of the time at least.

But not this kid.. He scrubs through the footage quickly on his wrist hologram, it was just so weird.. One minute the Joker is setting up the camera and laughing as he taunted the Bats, an unconscious “Tim” in the background. The next his eyes flashed open under the black fringe of hair and the pixels and distortion just appeared!

Ok that was kinda weird, he’s pretty sure he has that shirt.. And those shoes but they were way cleaner and didn’t look like they had run a mile and a half through the swamp. The lighting was crummy enough in the warehouse that he supposed the jeans could look like the new pre- worn pair that he got from Kon.. Just who was this guy?

He pauses the feed after the Joker leaves and the guy manages to get out of the ropes holding him to the chair in a frankly worrying amount of time. No civilian knew how to get out of ropes that fast. Not even a tried and true gothamite who got tied up on the regular.

The stumbling and almost falling flat on his face on the concrete definitely was not something that spoke to someone who was just knocked out however. Drugged maybe? Or a concussion?? Both of those weren’t above something that the Joker would do..

And there is the static and distortion again. What the hell is going on with this camera and this guy.. It's like the static was specifically hiding this guy's identity! It followed him for god's sake as he walked away from the camera!

“Hey uh.. Look I am not who he thinks I am? I am fine, I'll disarm the bomb here as best I can and then I’ll head out.. It seems like we are by a river? So I am hoping no workers are around but better to get rid of the thing, am I right?”

The voice was similar in tone to his but even with the distortion warping it it had an accent to it. He couldn’t place the accent immediately but it was definitely there. “So uh yeah Ill just do that and go? Uhh.. Yeah bye.” The camera shuts off shortly after that concerning statement. Although, he supposed there was nothing to really be concerned about? After all this guy diffused the bomb. And well enough to have B concerned.

The sound of a trash can falling over and quiet swearing from a few alley’s over quickly garners his attention. Probably some drunk stumbling around but better to be safe than sorry. He deftly stands from his crouch and swings over the next few rooves, dropping onto the edge of the roof to look down into the darkened alley curiously.

That was.. That was the civilian. Well guess it's his lucky day! Wait - night? Night.

“SHit?!” Danny hisses to himself as he clips his foot against the metal trash bin sending it and whatever was inside crashing onto the already disgusting alleyway. His one leg was still bothering him for some reason. The pins and needles had barely eased up in his leg calf and foot and yet his right leg had returned to normal already. Something was up with that.

He lifts his hand to his left brow to double check the bleeding from the gunshot (stab? Cut- thing?) had eased off and closed up. With how polluted Gotham was already he didn’t need to be adding his weird ass blood to the mix. Luckily enough for him it seemed that Gotham had a larger than normal amount of ambient ectoplasm in the area meaning he could heal up his wounds faster then he would be able to using his own ectoplasmic energies.

“Son of A BI-” He spits out as he trips over a shade that darts out of a wall and makes him fall face first into the sticky and wet alley ground. He groans annoyed as he pushes himself back up to his knees and looks at his shirt and pants. How the hell was he supposed to explain this mess to his parents now… He smelled like piss and vomit and unfiltered ectoplasmic waste. They would already be pissed he missed his birthday supper and now he was in another state entirely. Fuck.

Someone was watching him.

He blinks slowly knowing the familiar feeling of eyes on him but this time it wasn’t some ghost. No, these eyes had weight behind them that ghosts simply couldn’t convey.

Homeless? … No, too intense.. Robber? Probably not but can’t be ruled out… Murderer? Well knowing his luck..

He frowns to himself and glances down at his left leg before pushing himself to his feet and angling himself to see if he could spot the person watching him without letting them know he knows they are there. As long as it was just some human he can lose them pretty easily by walking through a few walls but if it was something else.. Well he will cross that bridge when he gets there.

There. On the roof. He could just barely see the slight movement as whoever this was slid out of his line of sight.

Fuck. Probably a vigilante then. That was the last thing he needed right now. He just needed 5 minutes to himself to breathe, check his leg, and get the ring out of his pocket dimension to tear himself a portal back to amity.

He takes the next turn down the maze of allies and picks up his pace only to practically turn the corner and run into a dark figure about a head shorter than him.

He scowls slightly as he takes in the cape and domino mask. So a vigilante then. He was right. Damn.

“Where are you off to?” The guy smirks, crossing his arms over his chest as he looks up at Danny. His outfit was a mix or red and black armour. Well at least the armour cut some nice figures over his outline.. Wonder if being hot was a necessity for being a vigilante here.

“Anywhere but where I was.” He answers cryptically, crossing his own arms over his chest as he gets a better look at this guy. Sharp jaw, thick black hair, high cheekbones, fit- damn if this dude wasn’t a vigilante he would be just his type..

“Well that's one way to answer, but seriously why are you out here? Don’t you know it's dangerous out here at this time of night?” The vigilante frowns slightly as if he was worried about Danny of all people.

“I.. I can take care of myself.” He responds shortly as he looks down at the smaller hero and moves to step around the guy. “Now if you don't mind.”

“I do mind actually,” Red responds, reaching out to grab his arm.

Danny moves out of reach as quickly as he can, letting this guy's hand phase through his arm to prevent him from actually touching him.

“Don’t. Don’t.. Don’t touch me.” He snaps out quickly trying to reign in his emotions before he actually did something to this guy he might regret.

“Look, it's been a long night. I just want to get home and sleep all this” He waves vaguely around and behind him “off. So I don't know what you want or who you think you are but leave. Me. Alone.”

He glares at the vigilante, hoping that this would work. Maybe if he was just rude and annoying enough the guy would back off enough for him to go intangible and get into one of these buildings so he can properly work on getting home.

Red just raises a brow making his mask arch with the movement, as his hands come up in a surrendering gesture.

“Easy there friend, look probably not the best way to have started this encounter but it's clear you aren't from around here. And therefore probably don't know who I am” He says the last bit under his breath.

Danny can't help the small snort that he gives that sentence but otherwise doesn't acknowledge him aside from just glaring.

“Names Red Robin, vigilante of Gotham. And you are??…” the guy- red Robin, offers him a hand to shake like a peace offering.

He considers the hand for a moment before sighing through his nose and dragging a hand through his hair. He shakes the hand and drops it quickly to keep the contact to a minimum. He didn’t need to give Red another reason to be suspicious and his lower body temperature tended to be a cause of concern for people who didn’t know him. He grits his teeth a bit before shifting his weight off his left leg. The feeling was still coming back, if a lot slower than normal. He would have to have Sam take a look when he got back.

“Danny. Now I really do need to be going.” He says shortly. “So if that's all.”

“You're injured.”

Those two words make him freeze and his heart stop In his chest.

“Look we can help just-”

He didn't even notice when this body decided to start running but he was. Dark and twisting alleys flashing past him as he pressed his legs to go faster. He couldn’t phase here. He said ‘we’. Who was we?? The GIW?? Fuck if he was working with them- who was he kidding they all probably were, the justice league any of their little hero's. Fuck he needed to get out of here yesterday.

He risked a glance behind him as he could still feel the energy of the person chasing him but for the moment he was out of sight. He had to risk it. There's no way a Gotham Vigilante would give up the chase. He'd seen what they were like from the news.

He dove around the corner and threw intangibility around himself like a familiar cloak as he nearly crashed through the brick wall that made up the end of the alley.

He quickly stopped breathing as he heard the near silent steps round the corner he did just seconds ago. The vigilante was alone still… For now. He couldn't stick around to see how long that would last. He stuck his hand into the fabric of reality and opened up his pocket dimension sliding the ring onto his finger with a small frown at the familiar overwhelming wave of power that accompanied the damn thing.

He shifted slightly and let the phase cover him silently till he was back as Phantom. It was familiar at least. Being Phantom. Not ‘high king Phantom’ just.. Phantom.

He shook his head as he listened to the other side of the wall. Red Robin seemed to be talking to someone but there were no other signs of living energy in the 500M radius of the two of them. Must be some sort of communication system.. sounded like it wasn't working very well if the muttered curses were anything to go by.

That would be his cue to leave anyways. If the vigilante put 2 and 2 together about the electronics.. If he hasn't already. He really would be screwed.

The high-pitched whine of something being launched and catching on the roof above him had him simultaneously ripping a hole in the fabric of reality and turning to look at the windows that were not boarded up, above his hiding space.

The minute toxic green eyes met those of the domino mask he was throwing himself through the portal and sealing it shut behind him.

[the-batcomputer-project]

Batfamily (and other) Headcanons that will be canon in my DC timeline:

-Dick is Pansexual. Show me this man in romantic relationships with more than just woman. I also feel like he has potential to be a sex positive icon which I feel is important. Sex portrayed as something that can be fun and casual, not explicitly reserved for romantic partners and situations.

(edited to rephrase and remove offensive language towards the pan community)

-Jason is Asexual. Get some ace representation but also give him some healthy romantic relationships where sex is not the center or a necessity. (I’m partial to Jason/Roy but to each their own)

-Jon Kent is dyslexic. Insert Percy Jackson reference about his brain being wired for kryptonian, but no, the dyslexia comes from Lois.

-Jason was absolutely theater kid before his death who managed to get the lead role almost every time, and somehow maintained a healthy schedule of theater rehearsals, good grades, and patrols.

-building off of the last one, Jason is Bruce’s favorite allowing him to get away with pretty much anything, but no one notices this because Jason is convinced Bruce hates him, and everyone else (understandably) believes Cass is the favorite.

-Cass took up gardening after watching Alfred tend to the rose bushes out front, and is now responsible for the very impressive garden on the Wayne Estate. She loves being to create and nurture life instead of kill, like the was born and raised to. Jason also taught her the language of flowers and she has little flowerbeds for each member of the family. Only Jason knows what they mean (also Alfred but he knows everything)

-Tim isn’t a caffeine addict, but he does have severe insomnia and ADHD. Because of that, caffeine typically has the opposite effect on him, hence why he always seems to be drinking a cup. Either for the placebo effect to stay up and finish a case, or to make him tired enough to fall asleep.

-Damian struggles to connect with people and express gratitude, appreciation, and love. He asked Cass about her garden one day and very intently sat and listened while she taught him about the language of flowers. Each family member woke up the next morning to a drawing of a bouquet of flowers pinned to the door with a knife (Jason has his framed in a safehouse he is fairly sure none of his family knows about)

-The batcave has a secret vault of “bad ideas” which was started by Dick as a child with the original Robin suit Bruce designed (it had pants) along with videos of Dick wearing said costume and falling off of gymnastics bars. (Think of the video explaining why strippers don’t wear clothes with the person falling off the pole over and over)

-Bruce is autistic. He gives off tism vibes (you’re trying to tell me that a man who dresses up as a bat and fights crime as a trauma response to watching his parents be murdered in front of him is neurotypical?) and I also want to see more a positive autism representation in main characters in media.

-Dick’s use of made up words such as “aster” and “whelmed” come from the fact that he spoke very little English when he was first adopted by Bruce, and decided that using obviously made up words made his slip ups less noticeable, or people would assume he did it on purpose. Even after he mastered English, he continued using his made up words because they just made sense (the batcomputer and jl database have a hidden file called the “DICKtionary” unlinking all his words and their meanings)

-Jason can’t drive. He died when he was 15 (you have to be 16 in Jersey to get your permit), was revived in Nanda Parbat so there was no need to drive, and was too embarrassed to mention it by the time he returned to Gotham and the Batfamily. This is his deepest, darkest, secret.

-As a child, Dick was convinced Batman was a vampire (and still isn’t entirely convinced otherwise)

-Tim collects little trinkets. Dick noticed this early on, and made sure to get a little souvenir trinket for Tim every time he went on a trip. Bruce noticed and started doing the same thing, and so did his friends after a while. Tim proudly displays his collection, because to him, each trinket is a reminder that people are thinking about him and care about him. (Most of his possessions in Drake Manor were necessities like clothes, or things he had bought for himself. Barely anything was a gift)

-Jason has OCPD, and needs things to be an exact certain way, and struggles when they aren’t. It’s one of the biggest reasons why he is often so frustrated with Bruce, who tends to do things in a different, certain way.

-Cass is actually the most neurotypical in the family, though because she has learned how to be a person through observing, she has picked up on many neurodivergent traits, specifically stimming.

-Steph’s aesthetic is retro pastel pop, mixed with maximalism. She loves bright colors and loud designs (though purple is still her favorite by far)

-Alfred keeps guns stashed all over the house in case of emergencies. Bruce hates this and has tried to remove them, but has given up as he can never seem to find them all. Alfred also brought up the good point of “I am not a vigilante like you, Master Bruce, and I am not quite as young as I used to be. If there is ever an invasion of the manor, I would quite enjoy the security of being able to protect myself.”

-There is a list of who is banned from the kitchen. Bruce is at the top of the list, Tim isn’t allowed to make anything more complex than instant food, Cass and Damian aren’t very good, but at least make an effort to learn so are therefore allowed with supervision. Dick has a partial ban. He is an absolute disaster in the kitchen, except for soups, and sarma (his mother’s recipe was one of the few things he brought with him from the circus and was obsessed with perfecting it as a kid, leading it to be one of the only things he can actually make) Steph isn’t allowed to cook, but she is a proficient baker. Duke isn’t a horrible cook, but mainly avoids the kitchen, preferring to stay out of Alfred’s way. Jason is the only batfamily member who is not banned from the kitchen under any circumstances. He has a tendency to stress cook, and likes trying new fancy recipes, because on the streets he only ate what he could find. This gives him a sense of control.

-Superman wasn’t a great dad to Connor at first, opting to send him to the farm to stay with Ma and Pa, but after a stern talking to from Bruce, came around started making an effort. Connor is an excellent big brother to Jon.

[celaenaeiln]

is the dickbabs romantic relationship always as bad as in Tom Taylor’s run or is it actually enjoyable in other runs? i want to read more of dick’s og nightwing run but ik dickbabs is a recurring thing and i strongly dislike what i’ve seen of it in modern comics (absolutely no offense to anyone who ships it!!)

also sort of related, but have dick and babs really been BFFs since grade school or is that new canon? i remember the initial new 52 run referencing him and babs as on and off but nothing about being childhood besties.

finally- what would you consider to be key dick grayson runs?

Surprisingly Dickbabs is pretty nice to read in other runs. I know this sounds weird coming from someone who hates Dickbabs as a ship but really it's only bad like 85% of the time and the majority of that is because of the Batgirl comics. Batgirl comics treat Dick like shit and it's a losing tossup whether he's treated well in Oracle related comics.

But to get to your point, Dickbabs in Nightwing (1996) was originally pretty good. Tom Taylor's run of Nightwing is the weird one because in every other run you have Dick + relationships whereas in Taylor's you have relationships + Dick. That being said, I highly, highly recommend reading the og one. At one point it does get toxic but Barbara leaves almost immediately after that and aside from that the ship was pretty nice for the most part.

Dick and Barbara have NOT been BFFS since childhood or whatever and this gets on my nerves that Tom Taylor and Hope Larson did that. This is one of the problems I have with the Dickbabs ship. Writers who write them love changing the story to erase Dick's friendships with the Titans. They literally love to pretend Wally, Donna, Roy, and Garth don't exist. BARBARA IS NOT HIS CHILDHOOD BEST FRIEND!! They literally keep deaging her and for what?? First she was like two decades older than him, then she's five years older than him, and now she's the same age?? Just let her be older! Barbara being the same age as Dick makes no sense because it takes away her maturity to turn her into this childish, selfish character she has no business being. She's not even enjoyable when she's deaged this far. I'm still on the she's 5 to 6 years older than Dick canon timeline and there is no way she was childhood besties with him.

The way I picture Dick and Barbara's relationship is this:

DC should've just let it at this, this was peak Dick and Barbara relationship.

Very narrow starting out list but some must read Dick Grayson runs are:

Nightwing (1996) - If you don't feel like reading anything else just read this

Nightwing (2016) - Really good up until Tom Taylor's run

Batman: Gotham Knights - pretty good and lots of cute Tim and Dick!

Titans (1999) - This is a must read if you're not interested in the original Teen Titans comics

Outsiders (2003) - Love him so much in this

JLA/Titans - Important for understanding his relationships with Titans and Batman

Nightwing (2011)

Justice League (2011) Issue #25 and Forever Evil - Same arc

Batman: Prelude to the Wedding: Nightwing vs. Hush

Robin era

Batman - One Bad Day: Mr. Freeze - If you want to skip the medal ages but still want to know what Dick was like as Robin, this comic is all you need to understand his character and personality and beliefs.

Batman Chronicles: The Gauntlet - Dick's gauntlet test!

Robin: Year One - For fun :)

Dick!Bats era

Batman: Battle for the Cowl - To get into Dick's batman

Batman (1940) Issues #682 to #713 - Batman Dick. Incredible. Dick was such a good batman and so fun to read.

Batman and Robin (2009) - Dick and Dami!

Batman: Streets of Gotham - Also Dick and Dami <3

Justice League of America (2006) Issues #41 to #60- Dick leading his own JLA team as Batman! SO FUN!!

Detective Comics (1937) Issue #864 to #881 - Honestly Batman Dick was so good I can't tell if I like Dick more as Nightwing or Batman. Obviously it's better for his mental health if he's nightwing but he just did such a great job as Batman.

Spy era

Grayson - YESSSS. Just everything about this.

Batman and Robin Eternal - It was really good up until near the end but then it got better again

Dark Crisis - Definitely, without a doubt, no question

Additional: The ones above are focused on him but if you finish reading this then Tim's Robin (1993) Comic is a fantastic one. He doesn't appear in every single issue but he appears a lot and it's a lot of Dick and Tim characterization. Also Teen Titans (2003) for more Dick and Titans relationships.

[zeroducks-2]

Zero you mentioned hating on people who get prissy about people shipping characters they dont actively ship and it sparked a LONG burning question of mine concerning bias shipping culture in Batfam fandom. Fans who attack and complain and make a big show of hating on ‘batcest’ ships ARE SO DUCKING HYPOCRITICAL OH MY LORD. I don’t understand why it’s considered okay to ship Dick x Barbara or Barbara x Bruce, or Steph x Tim. But seen as a cardinal sin to ship Jason x Dick, or Jason x Tim or Bruce x Dick??? Especially when the only argument antishippers make is ‘that’s gross their brothers/father and son and that’s incest 😤’. I’m sorry? Did you not just post nsfw Dickbabs content? Did DC not make Steph and Tim romantic love interests? Is that not incest too? Considering the fandom classifies all of them as family, and in a lot of fan spaces and fanfics, are they not interacting and being written as a family unit? I see SO many people blog about Bruce seeing Babs as his first daughter, or being making weird headcanons on Bruce and Steph’s relationship and donning it ‘tired uncle!Bruce and weird niece!steph core’. Like you obviously see them connected to Bruce through familial ties, and yet you’re okay with them dating Dick and Tim who are legally adopted by Bruce and who are also known as his sons? The irony. The hypocrisy. The ducking mockery of it all. Personally, I don’t think the issue that antishipper have is the ‘incest’ part but rather the ‘gay’ part of it all. Game of Thrones taught me that the general public actually don’t care about fictional incest between characters as long as it’s not between two male characters. Because lord forbid the’s a couple of queers in media.

I have been talking about this many times and I have no qualms talking about it some more:

✨ IT'S NOT INCEST, YALL JUST HOMOPHOBIC ✨

The whole idea around "batcest" makes no sense. These are people who did not grow up together, aren't related and never even lived under the same roof. Incest is not a spectrum, incest means sexual intercourse with a relative within the prohibited degree of consanguinity, consanguinity means BLOOD RELATIONSHIP, and these people DO NOT HAVE IT.

But even then, they are a bunch of hypocrites because I have not ever seen anyone batting an eye over Dickbabs or Timsteph (or Jaybabs, or Timbabs - yeah depending on the time period or the media, poor Babs has been passed around a lot). Their relationship is the exact same as the boys' when it comes to shared experiences. Steph has even been a Robin. But nobody cares because 1, DC is not pushing the "family rhetoric" with the girls all that much since they treat them as lower importance characters (when they're there at all), and 2, it's not queer relationships.

And this is ultimately what makes me go insane about queer kids parroting anti bullshit. Censorship is the weapon used by bigots to criminalize, punish and ultimately erase queer people from existence, it takes to study queer history for five minutes to understand this. You can see it happening in every fandom space where every type of queer ship gets put through some sort of moral sieve, and they WILL find reasons why it's unethical to ship it. Did you know that now shipping Dick/Wally is problematic because "Wally has a wife" ? So basically they're turning the very reason why fandom was born (exploring something different from the standardized heteronormative/amatonormative way of doing everything when it comes to narrative) into something pRoBLeMaTiC.

And these little fucking idiots keep spouting queerphobic nonsense while feeling morally righteous, not understanding that they are playing the game of the same people who if they could would shoot them in the street for being anything but straight and cis. And I'm not even taking into consideration the amount of harassment that comes from antis who think bullying and suibaiting someone over the perceived honor of fictional characters is okay.

BTW it's working. Just to name one, tumblr is not even doing its little rainbow capitalism number this year, because it's not a good look to be queer friendly anymore. Antis are helping the people who want us dead get to a spot where being anything but "normal" is illegal. When it happens, and if we keep going the way that we are now it will happen, it's going to be their fault too.

[wingfleur]

Your writing is making me want to get into the batman fandom 😭😔 where do I even start?

SNAILLLLLLL omg hello lovely i see you on my dash all the timeeeee! i hope ur doing well darling :)

firstly, that is such a HUGE compliment, you don’t even understand! i am #veryflattered by that 💗 secondly, i only properly started getting into dc quite recently myself (the last 6 months), so take what i say with a grain of salt, LOL. there's no right or wrong way to get into comics, so do your own research to see what suits your tastes best! that's really what will dictate where you should start, but as for the batman stuff? i'm just passing on the knowledge that’s been passed down to me from my friends and the internet LMFAOAOAO. i'll put all my recommendations under the cut:

okay, so the dc universe has been to hell and back, so it’s 100% understandable to not know where to start. there is also SOOOO much batman content out there, so to make it easier for you, i’m gonna list some titular runs that'll allow you to start wrapping your head around who exactly the bats are and what the hell they do. first thing i’d pick up is batman: hush. ik some people think you should start with some other runs first, but i personally started w/ hush. there's an animated film for it too, but i haven't watched it. i will say that it doesn’t get into bruce's backstory or anything, but it introduces you to all of the major characters in batman’s universe; it'll more or less bring you up to speed with what the hell goes on in gotham. after that, read batman: year one for bruce's origin story. you can 100% read this before hush if you feel like you need to, though! also, most of the important characters in the dcu have a year one issue, which will give you give you a look into their backstories. very informative stuff 🙂‍↕️

after that, i’d pick up dc rebirth! rebirth is essentially dc retconning the new 52, which, in short, was dc trying to make the universe easier to understand, but it actually turned out to be a fucking trainwreck instead 💀. unfortunately, dc really has a thing for… not writing its characters well sometimes, LMFAO, especially when it comes to handling trauma and abuse, but that’s neither here nor there!

lastly, i’d pick up the detective series! it's a batman anthology, and there are like… a lot of those, negl, but it’s a very great way to start learning who the hell batman and robin actually are. there’s the original runs from the pre-crisis era during the 30s and 40s, and then the rebirth runs during the post-crisis era, which is right now. per usual, i'd start w/ the rebirth runs. after stomaching all of that, LMFAO, you can pick and choose what you read/watch next based on what characters you're interested in and what you wanna see! there's so much out there-- the justice league, superman, the flash, etc. at this point, it's all about who tickles ur fancy most! 😩

now, as you can tell, i like jason todd and dick grayson a lot, LOL, so if you’re into them too, i’ll leave a few recommendations! but only start these after getting familiar with the batman lore (aka reading the stuff up above)! for jason specifically, i’d read death in the family (which you should honestly just read in general, super important to the batman storyline), and watch under the red hood (2010). there’s more red hood content out there, but dc is notorious for fucking up jason's storyline and character all of the time, so i’m just gonna suggest those two. it's all i can suggest in good conscience, tbh...

as for dick, he’s a character with a LOT of history, so there’s a LOT to read about him. he was the first robin, then created the titans, then became nightwing, and some more crazy shit that i won't spoil, so that journey is more or less reflective of his reading order, too. but, for all of our sakes, i'm gonna keep it simple: again, after reading all of the batman stuff from above, check out the new teen titans, then the nightwing comics (the chuck dixon and rebirth issues specifically). after that, it's really up to you to choose where to go from there! u can also 100% slide into my inbox or dms to yap and ask more questions if any of this wasn't clear, or if you want more advice. i look forward to seeing the potential snail dc fanfics on my dashboard >:) i hope this helped! have fun lovie!

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