#fire emblem discussion

[aluminum-allium]

Fire Emblem weapon and movement type combinations I think are cool! :D

Tome-Flyer Stuff like Malig Khights and Dark Fliers. Just the idea of zipping around a map free of movement restrictions incinerating foes with magic and also over-extending and being sniped by an archer sounds fun. I’m exited that Ivy is a tome flier!

Armored Axes Edelgard smashing everything with Aymr is cool. Edelgard is cool.

Infantry Lance I was pretty disappointed with the lack of infantry lance classes in Three Hopes.(Similarly I really didn’t like in Shadows of Valentina there were no playable axe classes.) Amelia being bad in general is funny.

Manakete Dragons are cool. Dragon-Lords are cool. Alear and Corrin r rad. I really like the way manaketes work in New Mystery of the Emblem were there are different dragon-stones with different stats and not just dragon-stone and dragon-stone+ . Also Myrrh being a flier in Feh is cool.

Copy-Paste Infantry Staff Just something about these clerics with a relatively similar design and personality I just like for some reason. Can’t really explain it beyond OR I COULD USE THE WARP STAFF.

[viis-art]

[real-fire-emblem-takes]

Fe8 would be perfect if it weren't for the incest

so it's perfect.

[emblemxeno]

This brings up a question I've always had why DO so many people call Edelgard a revolutionary what am I missing? She's point for point like all politicians who claim it's for the good of the country and go back to how things were when it's just an excuse. Like I don't like bringing real world stuff into this but Israel and Netenyahu? Russia and Putin? Make America great again and Trump? They all use the exact same tactics calling the other side the enemy it's all by strength alone (please ignore the system you just aren't strong enough listen to me I'll save you from the evil scapegoat I'm telling you about), using only people close to them to put into positions of power, it's honestly shocking people are blind to this??? Then again they seem to think the church is just like our church when they're barely alike so idk

We really failed as a fandom tbh.

When the game presents an imperialist autocrat pretending to be (and believing she is) a revolutionary and who sides with terrorists who committed a genocide without much pushback beyond insults until she gets what she wants because, to her and her jackass evil butler, their useful power outweighs being fucking evil and making things terrible.

And a significant portion of the audience says "yes actually, she's a revolutionary who wants to bring change and everyone who's against her wants to maintain a toxic status quo, especially the genocide victim whose warnings and instructions were ignored by humanity."

Despite the fact that, for as much as she claims she's future focused, she fucking venerates the past to an insane degree. She thinks things were better when the other countries didn't exist; she believes things are better when one person on the imperial throne gets to call the shots with no checks on that power (like, just because it's not an inherited position anymore, doesn't mean it's good, since the subjects still don't have a voice); she compliments a past when merit and strength (concepts that are just as brittle and easily taken advantage of as birth status) were what got people high positions without consideration of those below the shot-caller; she thinks things were better when Nabateans had no ability to participate in how things operate-in their own birthplace mind you-because she doesn't view them as beings capable of emotion, logic, or rationality.

Edelgard is a rough textbook example of the evils of modern conservatism, wanting to return to an inequitable and oppressive power structure of the past that shut the majority out while claiming "oh just be better at your job, you whiner." And no amount of her feeling "uwu sad" about her actions changes the fact that she's still doing them.

[pioneer-over-c]

blorbo from my prison break

[purrplecatart]

Me and my girlfriend have been talking abt the insane supports these two could have and now I’m invested. C support Felix would think this was the most annoying man in the world

[sleepy-bear-tm]

Every time I think of Dimitri teaching Dedue the Fodlan language and Dedue teaching Dimitri the Duscur language I feel like sliding dramatically down a closed door

[wellberightwithyou]

Okay but we really don’t talk enough about Ghost Dimitri… like, from a writing perspective, why did that even happen?? Like isn’t it weird that even when it’s not the Blue Lion’s route Dimitri gets these weird steal-the-show moments? We never see a ghost Edelgard moment which would almost arguably be more tragic since she dies over and over again in different campaigns where she believes she’s doing the right thing and is trying to destroy a shadowy conspiracy force but no one knows that so they villainize her in history. I LOVE Dimitri and I’m certainly not complaining about these moments, but it’s technically odd how he gets so much more love than the other house leaders. Even in Three Hopes I feel like he’s always portrayed as this bad ass honorable figure even when he’s the enemy of a campaign. I always feel guilty when I go after Dimitri but I have no problem going against Edelgard and Claude.

Okay so like… Ghost Dimitri / Not-a-Ghost Dimitri shows up in Silver Snow and together with Byleth they act like they have this super close bond but in this timeline Byleth is way more emotionally attached to Edelgard rather than Dimitri. In this timeline Byleth was always teaching the Black Eagles and bonding with them so it’s all the weirder that ghost Dimitri would appear before this Byleth. So in a story where I should feel sad about the tragedy of Byleth and Edelgard fighting I’m still feeling sad about Dimitri because of moments like this. It’s just sort of a strange move from a writing perspective. NOT A BAD ONE, JUST A LITTLE WEIRD.

Also, I feel like FE3H isn’t usually *that* ambiguous so moments like this are really strange and memorable

[creativesplat]

ok... so Lambert x Eve...

Eve and the two Blaiddyds

Lambert and the two Fierenes

The step-siblings

@blaiddydbrokeit and I were talking, and they have now sent me down the wonderful rabbit hole that is Eve and Lambert getting married and looking after their children.

[arkus-rhapsode]

Fire Emblem and Aesthetics-A Mini Discussion

So for those who don't know, I don't really play Fire Emblem Heroes, but I still have an interest in seeing what units they release. Usually for fanfic purposes or just keeping track of new resplendent designs. But recently, FEH had an update for the original character of Dagr and it got me thinking about how resplendent from jotunheim look

Combined with FEH's ongoing storyline of taking from Norse mythology it really made me think-"Wait, why don't we have a Norse Fire Emblem game?"

Now look, I'm not here to bemoan that FEH don't have a console version, non gacha style game, but it really got me thinking about how we may be missing out on something relating to the use of a rich mythology and it only being in a mobile game more about collecting waifus and husbandos.

You see, Fire Emblem is no stranger to cribbing from existing mythologies like Norse in Genealogy, Arthurian myth and the matters of France in Elibe, and several characters just straight up being named after mythological/classic literature characters like Beowulf, Sampson, Priam etc. But its always done in this relatively Anglo-Saxon-British-French homogeny of aesthetics for their tales. So we can have a character named Sigurd, but he's not gonna look like he's fresh off the Viking Ship. Now Fire Emblem isn't the only franchise to do this, many pieces of media made by other countries draw upon these sort of exaggerated/romanticized look for fantasy stories all the time. And I want to be clear I am not advocating for "Medieval accuracy," I think that's silly. What I'm more getting at is I feel like FE could do with changing up its setting/aesthetics to perhaps inspire newer experiences.

Now I'm not saying FE as a franchise needs to be reinvented. In fact, I think FE has one of the most universal accessible mechanics in turn-based gaming. Simple to pick up, but still able to create many difficult maps and challenges. And by this point has made the support system one of the most iconic in gaming. But if the mechanics are good, doesn't that mean it could be transplanted into another setting? Well, In a way, yes. But once again, I'm not advocating for FE to stop being this fantasy style sword and sorcery story and become like the Napoleonic wars.

(That is a real Nintendo game by the way. Its wild!)

No what I'm saying is that the broad terms of "Middle Ages Warfare" is much more than simply a certain type Eurocentric fantasy.

I'll tell you what, as much as people like to rip on Birthright, I'm still shocked how it took so long for Fire Emblem to have a game where Japanese culture and aesthetics is super prominent and a main setting for a game. Fire Emblem tends to have one character who is obviously inspired by Japanese culture or even sometimes a single country. But a full blown game where so many characters come from and embrace this Japanese backdrop was unique.

Now of course it was still Birthright, so while you got these cool glimpses of a unique world and story like the Oni inspired Flame Tribe, the start of having a lot of retainers as main characters, the monk class and using fans as a weapons, and even roping in Kitsune. It still doesn't really do much than an average FE adventure with them. But it did at lease prove the the FE formula *could* still work removed from its conventional trappings.

Another in the different aesthetic, but missed opportunity category would be Fire Emblem Three Houses country of Almyra being pretty heavily inspired by Persian/Middle Eastern culture. A country that was gesturing so hard at an interesting idea that its left fan artist and fanfic writers to swoon over the idea of a possible FE game set in Almyra.

And if you want an even more recent example, for all the desert backdrops we've had in Fire Emblem, its kinda astounding it wasn't until Engage that we got a lightly (And admittedly exaggerated) African inspired country.

When I see stuff like this and what FEH is doing it makes me realize that we could be getting more. Im sure the next FE will likely still lean on its typical fantastical Anglo-Saxon look, but eventually there's got to be some spice to it. Sure it may be different, but Fire Emblem is a franchise that with each entry does try to be something different while maintaining certain core gameplay elements. So what is the harm of trying to approach something that looks a bit different?

Im not asking for an extreme change right away. Maybe start lighter. We have tons of pirates in Fire Emblem, why not a pirate/sea based game? We've even had the rare few pirate as a playable character. Its a type of story that could be told within the typical Fire Emblem world.

Then perhaps maybe something a bit more culturally ubiquitous like Greeco-Roman inspired FE? There's plenty of gods and magic, but also swords and spears to draw forth on. Heck, that may even open up new potential enemies or stories to tell with like an Evil Senate or a Gladiator culture. It could even push FE to maybe drop or reinvent certain tropes like how they approach the knighthood type of character where a certain culture's version of knight is different. Maybe even make new classes the way Birthright had to.

Overall, I think Fire Emblem is and always has been a malleable franchise. And because of that, I think it can afford to take certain risks on something as simple as drawing from another culture during the medieval magic era, while still being able to provide things that people still love about the franchise like the combat system and support system. Will there be push back on it looking different? Of course, I remember when Three Houses first teasers dropped and everyone was wondering what was up with the military school outfits and what even race was Claude. And of course a different aesthetic doesn't make the game automatically good. But let's remember, that people were judgmental of Birthright not because it went all in on looking Japanese, but because the general story and writing was lackluster for many.

But if you can make an interesting and likable cast of a characters that elevate the story, and make a memorable world for people to wage war in, I see no reason why you couldn't make Fire Emblem work set in the Netherlands.

If there is a personal aesthetic or theme you'd like to see Fire Emblem tackle, sound off in the replies. I'd love to hear what you guys think.

[recurringwriter]

shez: you know i was once like you. but then i said, 'why worry' and look at me now rodrigue: that's your advice? 'why worry'? shez: and look at me now

[legendsoffodlan]

Shez the Agarthan spy

Rhea: That’s them! The Agarthan!

Shez: Me? An Agarthan? Come on you guys. Like, I’m not an Agarthan. I’m just a mercenary.

Rhea: They speak lies. I’ve seen them reading incantations from the Book of Epimindes!

Shez: Read? That’s crazy. Mercs can’t read, like what would I even do with a book? Does the Book of Epimindes have pictures in it that my dumb-dumb little merc brain could understand?

Seteth: They have a point.

Rhea: No! They speak with the serpent’s tongue! They’re lying to us!

Shez: No, I only know Fodlanese, like barely. Serpent’s tongue? You give me way too much credit. Like, can you image if I spoke more than one language? Me with my small merc brain?

Seteth: We were mistaken. Our apologise.

Shez: No problem. Thank you for all you do to protect dumbass mercenaries like myself.

*Rhea and Seteth leave*

Shez: Epimenides, the Nabataeans have been fooled again.

Epimenides: Excellent work for a dumbass.

Shez: Don’t start with me.

[real-fire-emblem-takes]

I get that fates turned people off of them but I really miss child units. It's not the characters fault that the deeprealms were a bad idea. I wanna form cute fe families again. I really hope they return someday. Just, add the ability for gay couples to have them too and we're set. You don't even need to explain it I don't care I just want to be able to have kids with a girl. And same for the mlms!

.

[slanax]

A happy @nagamas to @luliho! The prompts were pretty fic-centric so I don't think I could've done them justice that well, but drawings of Tobin, now that I can do!

Individual Tobins under the cut:

[dexjarxenoengage]

Veyle’s other self: the difference between the altered mind and the other self.

When we look at the aspect of Mind Control as a whole, it is the simple act of altering one’s thoughts to perfectly align with the controller’s wishes. While Fire Emblem itself usually voluntarily just uses mind control to get a (usually female) character to do what the bad guy wants them to do, the mind control trope itself is actually far more variable and complex than what you may think https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MindControl.

Beyond just that, the case of a certain Fire Emblem Engage character is a more interesting case than what some may say. Enter Veyle, who is my personal favorite Fire Emblem Engage character. A lot of people have complained that her evil personality in the words of TVTropes “cheaply removes agency from the real Veyle so she can be entirely sympathetic.” To that I say, what if I told you that that’s the point?

When it comes to Veyle’s story of abuse and control, there are three things we need to take into consideration: 1. Sombron’s control over Veyle’s life. 2. How the other Veyle is supposed to work and 3.(very important) Veyle’s accountability.

The best place to start talking about Veyle’s life of oppression is with the oppressor himself. The Fell Dragon Sombron, Veyle’s (and Alear’s) biological father. In case if it wasn’t obvious from his introduction in Chapter 10, to Sombron, everyone that he comes across (his children, the Four Hounds, and even his followers) are nothing more than pawns at best and tools at worst. Once Sombron has no use for you, you’re just deadweight (emphasis on the dead part). The end of chapter 24 also displays how he sees his children:

So right from the start, of course Veyle was stripped of her agency; she was living under a jerk that only saw his children as worthless slaves. Why would Sombron allow someone he considers to be a pawn to be allowed the chance to decide their own lives? Remember how Sombron rewarded Hyacinth for aiding his revival? He was eaten alive for it…

As a matter of fact, when it comes to Sombron’s control over others, it also foils how Sombron strips an Emblem of their free will when using an invocation on them. This represents the dominance he has over his children just for simply being their father.

This isn’t helped by the fact that the Four Hounds are all followers of the Fell Dragon (Sombron). This is especially the case of Zephia and Griss. Their reasons for treating Veyle as a “defect” is because she lacks the qualities they expected from someone who is Sombron’s child. In other words, they see Veyle as an extension of Sombron.

Zephia (Sombron’s most devoted follower) and Griss (who follows Zephia) only act nice to the good Veyle in order to keep her trapped. So that once Zephia’s spell takes full effect, the real Veyle would be erased and the other Veyle would take her place.

Griss really followed Veyle (EVeyle) so that he could get pain as offering to the Fell Dragon. It now makes sense why he was following Veyle and considers her good side to be a defect. Just Sombron and Zephia, Griss was forcing his expectations onto her.

The mere fact that the Hounds were followers of her father Sombron means that Veyle was going to be trapped by him no matter how many times she tries to run or defy his orders. Sombron will have control over Veyle’s life one way or another. For Veyle, there was never such a thing as being able to control her own life (no agency). Because Sombron is the one who had control over it. The Four Hounds exist to keep her trapped under the rule of her abusive father.

Like I said before, just simply being the daughter of the Fell Dragon allows Sombron to have control over Veyle even when not directly there. As Veyle lost her mother and was forced to go into hiding because of the persecution she suffered from the humans.

This leads into Veyle’s other personality EVeyle. This is not just another mind control situation. EVeyle is her own person with her own thoughts and feelings. She isn’t just some mindless robot who can’t think without someone else doing the thinking.

EVeyle feels more like a Shadow from the works of Carl Jung (referenced in the Persona series, 2 and 4 more specifically). A shadow is the innermost emotional cores that lie deep within our psyche. Often representing the sides of ourselves we wish to hide from others.

EVeyle represents Veyle’s inner hate for humans, her innate desire for Sombron’s acknowledgement, and her fear of becoming a monster. Zephia uses her power to tamper with her heart to create her other self. The other Veyle is the embodiment of Sombron’s will.

Even EVeyle says that she is “the real Veyle.” This is a common word choice for shadow archetypes. Representing the darker paths that we as individuals are at risk of taking.

Yu's vocals: You and I we ain't so different

I guess I had more blessings

Without it, got belligerent

But I totally understand

Glass was half full for mine

Adachi's vocals: And it looked half empty for me

Both: Maybe that one glass made the path we took, who knows?

— "Yin Yang", Persona 4: The Golden Animation

As Zephia’s actions with tampering with her Draconic Impulses implies, Zephia was just stimulating the feelings that Veyle held inside of her. EVeyle’s hatred towards humans, her desire to please her father, and her fear of what she would become as a result, etc.

Terra: What did I do? What did YOU do?

Maleficent: You speak as if I pulled some invisible strings. No, you couldn't be further from the truth, child. I simply whispered to the darkness you already held inside.

— Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep

As for EVeyle having a personality, Veyle’s supports with Ivy and Hortensia confirm that Evil Veyle liked Sweets. While the real Veyle likes Spicy foods. This is the moment where Hortensia truly begins to accept the real Veyle as the true Veyle.

In the case where this was a similar situation with Hortensia or Invoked Emblems, EVeyle would be a mindless husk incapable of having the capacity for liking or disliking anything. She would have no emotions whatsoever. Would a mindless person have the ability to beg for their life and say “I don’t want to die” with such emotions? I don’t think so.

But the most important aspect about Veyle’s character comes after she finally wins her agency back: her desire to atone for her (EVeyle’s) sins. A choice that she is making for herself. Not because anyone is asking/forcing her to do it.

Veyle’s supports and the rest of the game are focused on her atoning. Veyle could have just blamed all of the bad things that happened onto Sombron, Zephia and/or her evil self. But when it comes down to it, Veyle chooses to atone.

One could say that it’s out of self hatred, and while this may be true, this is another reason why I compared EVeyle to be a shadow. She still treats EVeyle as her own weakness. Something that, if it didn’t overcome her, then everything that happened could have been avoided.

The puzzling question is can one still be hold accountable for circumstances they have no control over? The circumstances may vary, but in the case of Veyle, because EVeyle is the darkness in her heart, she has to make the choice to fight to prove she is more than what others say.

In fact, Veyle was very close to choosing the easy way out and accepting death just to be with her sibling Alear who just died protecting her. And even then, she didn’t blame the world, Sombron or Zephia for the suffering she endured.

It isn’t until Alear (who also suffered from Sombron’s abuse) faces his own struggles that he learned to understand and accept Veyle. And this act of forgiveness would be the first step in saving the world and (more importantly, in that moment) mend their broken relationship.

Regardless if Veyle deserves credit for all that has happened or not, it’s as Sigurd said to Alear and Seliph; truth is subjective and there can’t be one single truth either. We have to see the bigger picture in order to truly understand each other.

If Lumera was in her right state of mind at the time and knew the full truth about Veyle, I’m sure Lumera would have forgiven Veyle without a second thought. And I’m sure Alear forgiving Veyle is what the real Lumera would have wanted too.

Veyle doesn’t deserve forgiveness for being a victim of Sombron’s abuse. Veyle deserves it because she herself made the choice and effort to make things right, to atone, to change… even before chapter 22, she already had the potential to be a hero…

And that’s more than I can say for Sombron and Zephia, who made no effort to repent whatsoever and continued to live in their selfish ways until the very end. In the words of Ike: “they’ll get no sympathy from me.”

So overall, I say screw TVTropes take here. Veyle fighting to get her agency back is the point, EVeyle actually has more depth than you think, and above all else, she’s sympathetic because she chose atonement when she could have hid behind her excuse. That’s just my opinion though.