#family commit suicide

[fictionadventurer]

My sister just mentioned the story our bishop told, about a woman who went to St. John Vianney after her husband committed suicide by jumping from a bridge, and she was beside herself because she knew he had to be in hell, and John Vianney told her, "Between the bridge and the water is the mercy of God."

[greenerteacups]

oooh please someday tell us what you think of GOT

oh, no, it's my fatal weakness! it's [checks notes] literally just the bare modicum of temptation! okay you got me.

SO. in order to tell what's wrong with game of thrones you kind of have to have read the books, because the books are the reason the show goes off the rails. i actually blame the showrunners relatively little in proportion to GRRM for how bad the show was (which I'm not gonna rehash here because if you're interested in GOT in any capacity you've already seen that horse flogged to death). people debate when GOT "got bad" in terms of writing, but regardless of when you think it dropped off, everyone agrees the quality declined sharply in season 8, and to a certain extent, season 7. these are the seasons that are more or less entirely spun from whole cloth, because season 7 marks the beginning of what will, if we ever see it, be the Winds of Winter storyline. it's the first part that isn't based on a book by George R.R. Martin. it's said that he gave the showrunners plot outlines, but we don't know how detailed they were, or how much the writers diverged from the blueprint — and honestly, considering the cumulative changes made to the story by that point, some stark divergence would have been required. (there's a reason for this. i'll get there in a sec.)

so far, i'm not saying anything all that original. a lot of people recognized how bad the show got as soon as they ran out of Book to adapt. (I think it's kind of weird that they agreed to make a show about an unfinished series in the first place — did GRRM figure that this was his one shot at a really good HBO adaptation, and forego misgivings about his ability to write two full books in however many years it took to adapt? did he think they would wait for him? did he not care that the series would eventually spoil his magnum opus, which he's spent the last three decades of his life writing? perplexing.) but the more interesting question is why the show got bad once it ran out of Book, because in my mind, that's not a given. a lot of great shows depart from the books they were based on. fanfiction does exactly that, all the time! if you have good writers who understand the characters they're working with, departure means a different story, not a worse one. now, the natural reply would be to say that the writers of GOT just aren't good, or at least aren't good at the things that make for great television, and that's why they needed the books as a structure, but I don't think that's true or fair, either. books and television are very different things. the pacing of a book is totally different from the pacing of a television show, and even an episodic book like ASOIAF is going to need a lot of work before it's remotely watchable as a series. bad writers cannot make great series of television, regardless of how good their source material is. sure, they didn't invent the characters of tyrion lannister and daenerys targaryen, but they sure as hell understood story structure well enough to write a damn compelling season of TV about them!

so but then: what gives? i actually do think it's a problem with the books! the show starts out as very faithful to the early books (namely, A Game of Thrones and A Clash of Kings) to the point that most plotlines are copied beat-for-beat. the story is constructed a little differently, and it's definitely condensed, but the meat is still there. and not surprisingly, the early books in ASOIAF are very tightly written. for how long they are, you wouldn't expect it, but on every page of those books, the plot is racing. you can practically watch george trying to beat the fucking clock. and he does! useful context here is that he originally thought GOT was going to be a trilogy, and so the scope of most threads in the first book or two would have been much smaller. it also helps that the first three books are in some respects self-contained stories. the first book is a mystery, the second and third are espionage and war dramas — and they're kept tight in order to serve those respective plots.

the trouble begins with A Feast for Crows, and arguably A Storm of Swords, because GRRM starts multiplying plotlines and treating the series as a story, rather than each individual book. he also massively underestimated the number of pages it would take him to get through certain plot beats — an assumption whose foundation is unclear, because from a reader's standpoint, there is a fucke tonne of shit in Feast and Dance that's spurious. I'm not talking about Brienne's Riverlands storyline (which I adore thematically but speaking honestly should have been its own novella, not a part of Feast proper). I'm talking about whole chapters where Tyrion is sitting on his ass in the river, just talking to people. (will I eat crow about this if these pay off in hugely satisfying ways in Winds or Dream? oh, totally. my brothers, i will gorge myself on sweet sweet corvid. i will wear a dunce cap in the square, and gleefully, if these turn out to not have been wastes of time. the fact that i am writing this means i am willing to stake a non-negligible amount of pride on the prediction that that will not happen). I'm talking about scenes where the characters stare at each other and talk idly about things that have already happened while the author describes things we already have seen in excruciating detail. i'm talking about threads that, while forgivable in a different novel, are unforgivable in this one, because you are neglecting your main characters and their story. and don't tell me you think that a day-by-day account tyrion's river cruise is necessary to telling his story, because in the count of monte cristo, the main guy disappears for nine years and comes hurtling back into the story as a vengeful aristocrat! and while time jumps like that don't work for everything, they certainly do work if what you're talking about isn't a major story thread!

now put aside whether or not all these meandering, unconcluded threads are enjoyable to read (as, in fairness, they often are!). think about them as if you're a tv showrunner. these bad boys are your worst nightmare. because while you know the author put them in for a reason, you haven't read the conclusion to the arc, so you don't know what that reason is. and even if the author tells you in broad strokes how things are going to end for any particular character (and this is a big "if," because GRRM's whole style is that he lets plots "develop as he goes," so I'm not actually convinced that he does have endings written out for most major characters), that still doesn't help you get them from point A (meandering storyline) to point B (actual conclusion). oh, and by the way, you have under a year to write this full season of television, while GRRM has been thinking about how to end the books for at least 10. all of this means you have to basically call an audible on whether or not certain arcs are going to pay off, and, if they are, whether they make for good television, and hence are worth writing. and you have to do that for every. single. unfinished. story. in the books.

here's an example: in the books, Quentin Martell goes on a quest to marry Daenerys and gain a dragon. many chapters are spent detailing this quest. spoiler alert: he fails, and he gets charbroiled by dragons. GRRM includes this plot to set up the actions of House Martell in Winds, but the problem is that we don't know what House Martell does in Winds, because (see above) the book DNE. So, although we can reliably bet that the showrunners understand (1) Daenerys is coming to Westeros with her 3 fantasy nukes, and (2) at some point they're gonna have to deal with the invasion of frozombies from Canada, that DOESN'T mean they necessarily know exactly what's going to happen to Dorne, or House Martell. i mean, fuck! we don't even know if Martin knows what's going to happen to Dorne or House Martell, because he's said he's the kind of writer who doesn't set shit out beforehand! so for every "Cersei defaults on millions of dragons in loans from the notorious Bank of Nobody Fucks With Us, assumes this will have no repercussions for her reign or Westerosi politics in general" plotline — which might as well have a big glaring THIS WILL BE IMPORTANT stamp on top of the chapter heading — you have Arianne Martell trying to do a coup/parent trap switcheroo with Myrcella, or Euron the Goffick Antichrist, or Faegon Targaryen and JonCon preparing a Blackfyre restoration, or anything else that might pan out — but might not! And while that uncertainty about what's important to the "overall story" might be a realistic way of depicting human beings in a world ruled by chance and not Destiny, it makes for much better reading than viewing, because Game of Thrones as a fantasy television series was based on the first three books, which are much more traditional "there is a plot and main characters and you can generally tell who they are" kind of book. I see Feast and Dance as a kind of soft reboot for the series in this respect, because they recenter the story around a much larger cast and cast a much broader net in terms of which characters "deserve" narrative attention.

but if you're making a season of television, you can't do that, because you've already set up the basic premise and pacing of your story, and you can't suddenly pivot into a long-form tone poem about the horrors of war. so you have to cut something. but what are you gonna cut? bear in mind that you can't just Forget About Dorne, or the Iron Islands, or the Vale, or the North, or pretty much any region of the story, because it's all interconnected, but to fit in everything from the books would require pacing of the sort that no reasonable audience would ever tolerate. and bear in mind that the later books sprout a lot more of these baby-plots that could go somewhere, but also might end up being secondary or tertiary to the "main story," which, at the end of the day, is about dragons and ice zombies and the rot at the heart of the feudal power system glorified in classical fantasy. that's the story that you as the showrunner absolutely must give them an end to, and that's the story that should be your priority 1.

so you do a hack and slash job, and you mortar over whatever you cut out with storylines that you cook up yourself, but you can't go too far afield, because you still need all the characters more or less in place for the final showdown. so you pinch here and push credulity there, and you do your best to put the characters in more or less the same place they would have been if you kept the original, but on a shorter timeframe. and is it as good as the first seasons? of course not! because the material that you have is not suited to TV like the first seasons are. and not only that, but you are now working with source material that is actively fighting your attempt to constrain a linear and well-paced narrative on it. the text that you're working with changed structure when you weren't looking, and now you have to find some way to shanghai this new sprawling behemoth of a Thing into a television show. oh, and by the way, don't think that the (living) author of the source material will be any help with this, because even though he's got years of experience working in television writing, he doesn't actually know how all of these threads will tie together, which is possibly the reason that the next book has taken over 8 years (now 13 and counting) to write. oh and also, your showrunners are sick of this (in fairness, very difficult) job and they want to go write for star wars instead, so they've refused the extra time the studio offered them for pre-production and pushed through a bunch of first-draft scripts, creating a crunch culture of the type that spawns entirely avoidable mistakes, like, say, some poor set designer leaving a starbucks cup in frame.

anyway, that's what I think went wrong with game of thrones.

[skyloftian-nutcase]

Friendly life advice from our friendly neighborhood Ganondorf :)

The captain sighed a little, leaning back against the palm tree. He watched Ganondorf for a while, watched as he rocked gently in the hammock seat that had been his perch for the last few hours. His gaze trailed down to the teenager in the man's arms, and he caught sight of the remains of skin paint that had mostly washed off, some kind of mark of royalty in the ancient past.

Royalty. The kid was a king.

Link sighed again, thinking about his own circumstances.

"Something's clearly on your mind," Ganondorf commented, his voice quiet as he watched the boy, continuing to rock both of them gently.

Link crossed his arms a little defensively. He supposed he was being fairly easy to read. "I just... I need to get my life together."

Ganondorf's eyes flicked upward from the sleeping teenager to the captain. Link felt himself shrink a little under the scrutiny; no matter how calm or gentle Ganondorf was now, his gaze was as intense as ever.

"Don't give me that look," Link accused, trying to glare back.

Ganondorf didn't comment. He didn't have to. He knew his presence was enough. Link hated that.

Rolling his eyes, he admitted defeat. "It's just... he's... he's my predecessor. All the expectations that have been on me... the entire war that Cia started... it's all from past heroes. And he's my direct predecessor."

"So you assume that you're inadequate in comparison to him?" Ganondorf surmised, though the flat tone of his voice clearly indicated his opinion on the matter. "Do you not recall the state he was in when I brought him here?"

"I recall Lana having a meltdown," Link laughed before growing somber. "But yes, I... I don't understand. I just... I don't know. He's, what, eighteen? And he's a war hero, a king, rebuilding Hyrule--"

"Are you not also a war hero? A captain? Rebuilding Hyrule?"

"I'm not rebuilding," Link grumbled, looking away and glaring at nothing in particular. "I'm just existing."

"And what of it? You need your rest. You cannot accomplish anything if you don't recover."

"Everyone else has!" Link snapped, rising.

Ganondorf sighed, looking down at the teenager again. "He is an example of what happens when you don't. I will not let both of you give me a heart attack, nor will I let you hurt yourself like that."

"I need to get my life together," Link finally repeated, wilting.

"Link."

Reluctantly, the captain straightened, looking at the Gerudo. Ganondorf had stopped rocking, sitting up a little more, full attention on him now.

"You're twenty years old," Ganondorf pointed out. "I didn't start 'getting my life together' until I was forty-five. We all learn and grow at different points in our lives. Do not try to figure it all out now. Simply take one day at a time."

Link finally laughed, relaxing. "What a day, for the Hero of Hyrule to be taking life advice from someone who started... how many wars?"

"Two," Ganondorf answered dully, returning his attention to the teenager. "And you know I'm correct."

"Yeah, yeah," Link agreed casually, approaching the pair. Ganondorf moved the boy's feet a little, making space for the captain, and he slowly plopped down beside him, letting himself lean on the Gerudo a little. He didn't protest when Ganondorf's arm slid around him, pulling him closer. He just sighed again, less disconcerted, closing his eyes and feeling the warm breeze.

[duchessofostergotlands]

A baby could have seen something like this was coming

[dephoraowo]

I saw some reddit posts saying that Wei Wuxian committing suicide is actually in character of him. 😅

Not only is it out of character for him (Wei Wuxian is always looking for ways to survive, he's a natural survivor! He never gives up!), but committing suicide would also diminish Jiang Yanli, Wen Qing, and Wen Ning's sacrifice for him!!! Which is the last thing Wei Wuxian would want to do!

Please don't lump up the Untamed Wei Wuxian with novel Wei Wuxian. They are both very different characters. 🙃

[curiosity-killed]

the problem with having a story you've worked on for a very long time and consequently have a lot of background/details that aren't really relevant to the story itself is that i must, at all times, resist the urge to add explanatory footnotes

[theenemyod]

*puts my favourite character through pain* *puts my favourite character through pain* *puts my favourite character through pain* *puts my favourite character through pain* *puts my favourite character through pain* *puts my favourite character through pain* *puts my favourite character through pain* *puts my favourite character through pain**puts my favourite character through pain* *puts my favourite character through pain* *puts my favourite character through pain* *puts my favourite character through pain* *puts my favourite character through pain* *puts my favourite character through pain* *puts my favourite character through pain**puts my favourite character through pain* *puts my favourite character through pain* *puts my favourite character through pain**puts my favourite character through pain* *puts my favourite character through pain* *puts my favourite character through pain* *puts my favourite character through pain*

[loderlied]

mmm essay about sally and kid gort in the tags (cw for child abuse, mentions of suicide, animal cruelty and a murder attempt. i always hope i don’t have to say this but just in case: i don’t excuse or condone any of her or gort’s behaviour at all.) this is literally not even touching upon everything i have to say because i hit the fucking tag limit lmao. NOBODY READ IT’S BAD BRAINSTORMING I JUST NEEDED TO GET IT OUT SOMEHOW

[coquelicoq]

the...for lack of a better word amount of suicidality i kept inside me as a teen and young adult out of fear of my loved ones committing me was so damaging. it just isolated me further at a time when i felt so unspeakably alone. if i had been able to feel that just telling someone about how i was feeling wouldn't invite them to violate my bodily integrity and autonomy...i can't even imagine what a difference that would have made.

[butnotbubblegum]

using the tags to vent my current emotional state into the void bc ig story feels like a bad plan for this, read at your own risk.

[normalbrothers]

the ending of a serbian film is genuinely shockingly sad though i sometimes wonder had the film been less excessively violent and worked more through horror by omission if it could have been more effective

[irregularbillcipher]

having a normal one about brad and birdie again

[hexslvt]

jesus fuck ok we have moved into traumatic vivid dream territory

[llycaons]

'poor heroic tragic saint jiang cheng' is actually my favorite jc misinterpretation it is just so fucking funny. I'll watch the man advocate to abandon a group of political prisoners to mass murder, constantly yell about his issues, threaten his nephew and everyone else around him, and abuse his power to intentionally trigger his traumatized brother bc he's mad at him and I go online and see posts about how he's so strong and noble and a great parent/leader despite suffering so much. LIKE

[zhoudadudugongjin]

arrrgghhh this SCENE of the cao beans in the prison is SO GOOD.

Poor zijian :(

[nenoname]

i know people love their aus but man. folks writing mabel as someone who would forgive bill still really does rub me the wrong way urgh