#ex islam

[our-exmoose-experience]

Muslim women (especially hijabi women): breathes

Haram police: 🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨

[voxpraxis]

lately i've been... idk if you can really call it "debating" but i've been interacting with some muslims in the comments of an instagram reel in which a young girl was speaking to a young boy (i want to emphasize that they are both children) and telling him that she wasn't allowed to speak to boys until she was married, because her parents and her religion said so. the boy was sad but replied with something like "oh, alright" and the caption & comments were all talking about how "sweet" the situation was. i commented that i didn't think it was sweet, and actually that's a horrible thing to put in a child's mind. the post never directly mentioned islam and neither did i, but everyone who's been replying to me is proselytizing islam, so. anyway, these are the points that have been thrown at me so far:

it's not wrong because both genders are forced apart from each other

in response to me saying it still enforces an extreme divide between genders and encourages them to see each other as opposites rather than equals: the separation is necessary to prevent rape

there is no rape in islam because of the separation between men and women, rape only occurs in western society because men and women are not separated (...because apparently we cannot expect men to not rape women unless they're physically kept away from them at all times)

rape does not happen between family members, it's just not a real thing, ever (incest doesn't exist?)

if you're interested in a girl you should marry her immediately, because dating leads to cheating

men and women cannot be just friends because "islam and science and psychology says so." one guy said it's because "women can't talk about cars and sports"

(i also got called a simp for saying i have female friends. can't make this shit up)

in response to me pointing out that what the girl is saying implies that she won't have any say in who her husband is: arranged marriages are better because they always work out and unlike western marriages, they never end in divorce! (i'll give you one guess why that is.)

similarly, single parent families and suicide are solely western problems

men and women are NOT equal

i need to shut up and respect it because that's their religion

islam cannot be questioned because islam says islam is true

and that's not including all the personal insults and threats i've received, in just a few days.

i will say this is one of the least challenging "debates" i've ever had, in the sense that almost no point brought against me has any logical foundation and is easily refutable. but it's one of the most frustrating because the problem is that they won't hear me at all, because islam teaches its followers to never consider anything else. it teaches them to accept exactly what they are spoon-fed as the ultimate truth. and this is by no means a problem exclusive to islam, but islam does this kind of control better than any other religion i know. people raised into islam are not taught to think in any logical terms - in fact, they're deliberately taught to avoid thinking logically. logical fallacies are the rule. so not only can they barely form a coherent argument in favour of their beliefs, but they have absolutely no clue how illogical they sound sometimes. when i point out a lapse in logic in something they've said, the response i get is "no, that's true because islam says it's true." no other explanation required. at least, i've sometimes heard people of other religions attempt to use logic or science to prove their beliefs, but with the muslims in these comments, those are unnecessary things to be absolutely avoided - it's like they don't even understand why i'd bother to use them. you can't use logic to get through to them because they've been taught to avoid logic and cling to the mantra of islam-is-true-because-islam-says-so.

[apostateoverrubies]

Okay so I was debating with two Muslims about beliefs and all that crap (which I admittedly haven't been replying as of late because I realized exhausting it is for me) but they've come at me about my recent post about certain religious groups claiming to protect children from people who they claim predators while also being the perfect places for actual predators.

And I think I've been thinking more clearly since I stopped debating them because if you believe that children are too pure to learn about the idea of queerness because it's "inappropriate" and, according to one person, they should be of legal driving age first, why are you part of a religion that holds a man who married a child in high regard?

Especially with how traditional marriage expects women to do unpaid labor and start popping out many children as soon as possible, marrying kids is so much worse than teaching them that queer people exist and supporting them if they do turn out to be queer themselves.

Also, I love how I said certain religions in my original post, and yet I am accused of making a general fallacy. Ironically, by someone who is making a general fallacy about the lgbtq community.

[radfemsiren]

Some beautiful responses, Islam is anti women, and the truth will come to light.

The “awrah” in Islam is the shameful parts of the body that must be covered from public view. The awrah for women is always huge expanses of her body in every school of Islamic thought, while the man only needs to cover knees to navel. He can exist freely.

Female oppression is sex based oppression, in every culture.

[divine-confus1on]

I'm glad you're asking questions about the point I'm making, these conversations are super important, but first I'd love to hear your definition of womanhood that doesn't exclude any cis women but doesn't include any cis men, while also not reducing women to baby-makers, cuz that's pretty misogynistic and objectifying as I'm sure you're aware, and if there's anything else you're not understanding don't be afraid to ask <3

Why does every apostate/ex-religious person I find who makes great content about it that I really agree with and understand end up being a terf like stop pretending you care about people's personal freedom if you can't just let people outwardly present themselves how they want to without lecturing them about the endocrine system as if you're a total expert on it

Tldr: this account isn't safe for terfs

[crownspeaksblog]

Marriage in general is fucked in the middle east..

I hate hate HATE living in a country where girls being married off at 15 is seen as something to be envious of.. is seen as something to be admired for..for fuck sakes! That's a fucking child!! I remember a classmate talking about i think a cousin of hers who's 15 who's married to a 29/30 year old man and how MUCH he LOVES her and how everyday he does her FUCKING HAIR FOR FUCKING SCHOOL!!!!

i saw a video of a 26 year old mother selling food on the street to make money and the top comment on that video was a man (sincerely) offering to marry her and he had like 100 replies of people asking him if he did it already and praising him for it..

And you know what's annoying is when i try to point out how fucked up those things are.. I'm almost always in the minority, I'm almost always argued against and people try to justify something like this by being like "this is our culture"....

fuck this culture and religion because you know damn well this shit is rooted in religion.. girls married off when they hit puberty to men twice their age is seen as an accomplishment.. men being encouraged to grace widows and divorced women with their kindness and marry them like they're broken or used (even if it meant getting a second, third or a fourth wife)...

And i know to most people reading this shit it sounds like I'm making it up but I'm not and you have no idea how much i wish i was..

[queerism1969]

[feministfang]

Islam is the most misogynistic religion on earth. It’s the most oppressive cult for women among all abrahamic religions. Women can’t get out of their house. Women have to hide themselves in black tents they wear from head to toe. Women can’t even show one strand of hair. Check out the comments under any Pakistani female celebrity’s post and you will be disgusted. Women get attacked by religious bigots even for wearing half-sleeves. Women can’t initiate divorce easily and a lot of them are stuck in abusive marriages. Women are supposed to obey their husbands and can’t deny sex or they will be cursed by their god. Marital rape is allowed and encouraged in islam. Parents’ inheritance is not divided equally between brothers and sisters because women are expected to get married and rely financially on their husbands. Only men can be authority figures and be leaders, women are supposed to be quiet and submissive. Their prophet (idol) was literally a fuckin pedo. And these are just a few examples of how women are treated in islam. I don’t get how these dumbass muslim women still find the audacity to say shit like 'iSlAm iS tHe mOst peAceFul rEligIoN and tHe mOst fEmiNistic religion cAusE iT gAve wOmEn tHeIr rIgHts 1400 yeaRs aGo' what right?? Where’s the right lol?? All i see is oppression and violence in your religion. You can’t even give your opinion without some man’s permission but because his money is your money and your money is also yours you think islam fulfilled all your desires. It’s true that the more religious a person is, the more narrow-minded they are but muslim women have crossed all limits of stupidity. So glad i cut off such people from my life and saved one woman from converting to islam. ☪️ancer religion!!

[our-exmoose-experience]

Guys Islam is a feminist religion!!!! It definitely doesn't allow a foster parent to marry their adopted kid, a breastfed baby can be married and used for sex, children born from rape or incest are seen as "bastards", parents won't be punished for killing their children, women have half testimony, women are seen as deficient, women can't divorce freely, the right of Li’an and Khul is not given to women, women can loose custody of their children if they remarry, women are allowed to be raped and beaten up if they don't disobey, women are seen as misfortune, rape is justified, a man won't be punished for killing women and much more!!!!!!

/sarcastic

Sources:

Ayah An-Nisa 3

Sahih al-Bukhari 5064

Fatwas of the Islamic Network, Al-Maktabah Al-Shamila, vol. 3, p. 8445

Sahih al-Bukhari 6817

Jami` at-Tirmidhi 1401

Al-Baqara 282

Sahih al-Bukhari 304

Al-Baqara 226-228

Islamweb.net

Jami` at-Tirmidhi 1186

Sunan Abi Dawud 2276

An-Nisa 34

Sunan Abi Dawud 3922

Sahih al-Bukhari 3237

Al-Baqara 178

[voxpraxis]

[video of two muslim women in full-coverage outfits]

commenter 1: sister your dress needs to be longer, your feet should be covered

commenter 2: sister your dress is too long, it is dragging on the floor

commenter 3: sisters neither of your outfits are proper hijab

commenter 4: sisters being on social media is immodest and distracting

verdict: you can't win

[apostateoverrubies]

I hope all my ex Muslim followers are doing okay.

[radfemsiren]

Islam is the blueprint misogynist, all encompassing attack to destroy a woman’s soul:

Dehumanizing her, degrading her, blaming her, silencing her, isolating her… until nothing is left but loneliness, self hatred, fear and sadness …

I hate this religion, and won’t ever shut up about it!

[seraphimfall]

you were taught to hate yourself when you needed love the most.

[apostateoverrubies]

The anon asked nicely but since they assumed that you were struggling since you left, I can't help but feel they were looking for an opportunity to proselytize to you

hey rem, I’m just curious, no judging—what’s the reason you left your religion? I found that you’ve been struggling more since you started to lose your faith, so I just wondered what made you take that decision?

Well, since you asked so kindly

I left my religion slowly, over a long time, for a lot of reasons.

The easiest one that most people accept is that I do t like Islam’s treatment of queer people, since being queer is a huge part of my identity and people are usually ready to accept that answer.

But it is not so cut and dry

The reason is that I do not believe in the concept of an all-powerful, all-knowing, and completely passionate and caring deity that presides over the universe.

If Allah exists, then he allowed a five year old child to be groomed and abused, by a man that styles himself as an Islamic Scholar, for almost nine years. He allowed that trauma to happen and allowed that man to die before he could face any justice for his crimes.

And for what? Because it’s part of his plan? If an omniscient and omnipotent being needs an innocent child to suffer like that for his plan to come to fruition, he is either not as compassionate as he claims or not as powerful as he claims.

People will tell me that he will burn in Jahannam for eternity for his crimes, but why was the crime allowed to happen at all?

Do you know why Muslims pray five times a day? The Quran tells the story, saying that on the night of Al Isra wal Miraj, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) ascended to Jannat (heaven) and was able to speak to Allah, who told him that every Muslim was to pray to him 50 times a day. He accepted, and as he descended through the layers of heaven, the prophet Musa (Moses, peace be upon him) told him to go back up and negotiate it lower. 50 to 45 to 40 and so on until it went to 5. That’s why there are five daily prayers.

What sort of God is so egotistical that he needs every single believer to pray to him 50 times a day to prove they love him? If he is all knowing, why start with 50 and not just command it be 5? Why do you need 5 at all? Why do you need people to constantly tell you that they love you?

I have my own religious trauma, from things taught in classes to the fucking pedophile calling himself a priest who came to my home 90 minutes a day 6 days a week for 8 and a half years, who was too religious to celebrate a birthday or let anyone else do so but apparently not enough to avoid abusing children

There are many arguments to be made about why I dislike Islam, most of them can be boiled down to something someone or the other will argue to be “misinterpretations of the text” or “a cultural thing” or “personal choice”

But in the end, at my core, I do not believe in the concept of a perfect, unerring God. The “Perfect” god of Islamic and Christian faith, insofar as I have seen, has allowed untold carnage, depraved abuse, and unspeakable violence to occur with the promise that one day, if you’re good, if you follow the rules, and pray every day, things will eventually, some day, somehow, turn out fine.

I respect Muslims. I respect Christians. I respect every single religion and every person of faith because I believe they all want to be good and do good because I think that is the nature of humanity. Who they choose to attribute that good to is none of my concern. I believe that everyone is human before they are their religion. Neither goodness nor badness can be attributed to a religion. They all have supremacists and extremists and people that will give their lives away trying to do good and make the world a better place. But if a god comes and declares that they are responsible for all of that, including the bad, and are just letting it happen for “divine purpose”? I reserve the right to question that.

And for the record, sweetheart, I am not suffering more since I’ve left my religion. I’ve been suffering the same for a very long time, and it’s only now that I’m in college, away from home, that I’m getting the space to process all of it. And sometimes things have to get worse before they get better. Right now it’s just worse than usual because the holiest month of the Islamic year is about to start, and it is always tough on me.

[studyingnstruggling]

Tonight, as usual, my dad accused me of wanting to be trans/a man and bringing “eternal damnation” all because I was wearing sweatpants, in my own house. And it got me thinking about how much I hate lipstick Muslims, and their liberal lapdogs. Conveniently, they never discuss ppl in my situation, and Ik I’m lucky I’m not in a Muslim country. But the pro hijab, pro Islam (hypocrites) who love to talk about how compatible Islam is with feminism, queerness, and liberalism, never discuss things like this. Technically, pants are “men’s clothing” and according to Hadith, not ok for women. 

[cannibalspyre]

women & "feminists" who shut down discussions on how unregulated immigration of *males* from islamic countries *do* pose an additional threat to the safety and freedom of local women & girls are simply spineless.

this is not a "our males vs their males" comparison, which is unnecessary, considering all men harm all women around the world.

this is about opposing the import of potential rapists, which would only add to the existing population of them. they are men who disproportionately leave their women and children behind when immigrating to other countries.

women from islamic countries are aware of how men view the "western woman". we know about their rape fantasies. i will never prioritize my nationality or the comfort of foreign/familiar men over my loyalty to the protection of women & girls.