#even though i feel a lot of nuance about the concept of. this is being treated seriously while simultaneously being treated as the—

[aroaessidhe]

2024 reads / storygraph

Outdrawn

f/f contemporary romance

two cartoonist who’ve been rivals since uni, and now have competing webcomics online, have to work together on the relaunch of a cult classic at the comic press they both work at

they both struggle with art-related physical and mental health issues, and complicated families

[rosesradio]

.

[coralhoneyrose]

Why Chrom Fire Emblem is The Husband of All Time: An Essay

SO. There was a screenshot going around of a reddit thread asking about how Chrom has managed to maintain such lasting popularity as a Fire Emblem husband even 6 years after Awakening came out. Given how beloved he still is another 5+ years later, I could not resist taking the opportunity to talk about just what I think makes him so great and endears him to players.

Character Introduction:

Let’s start out the same way Awakening does—with Chrom’s in-game introduction. This is one of the immediate ways Chrom sets himself apart. The game boots up and before anything else happens, Chrom is there expressing his unshakable faith in the player character. You take down the Bad Guy™ together, he turns and gives you this wide, puppy-ish smile and then you push him out of the way to take the hit from an oncoming spell in his stead. Right away you know this is someone your player character cares about deeply—and clearly that care is returned, because he’s immediately running over to make sure Robin’s alright.

Of course, as we all know, things go south very quickly after that. But as the cinematic plays out, and you proceed to watch yourself stab him in the chest, the *first* thing he does, the very first words out of his mouth are: “this is not your fault”. Chrom has just been completely blind-sided and arguably betrayed by his best friend, possibly his spouse, and his immediate instinct is to absolve Robin of guilt. He is literally more concerned about Robin blaming themselves for what happened than about his own imminent death. That alone tells you so, SO much about the depth of their relationship. It tells you both how deeply Chrom cares and how well Chrom knows Robin too. And not only that, but his final request, the ONE and only thing he asks of Robin before dying is that they will promise him they will escape from this place. In his last moments, his single “selfish” wish is for Robin to assure him that they will do what they can to survive. Chrom’s final request is for Robin to give him the comfort and peace of mind he can only obtain through the assurance that even though he won’t get out of there himself, Robin will. He just wants to be able to die believing they’ll take care of themselves and be alright—and knows them well enough to realize that unless he makes them promise, they likely won’t.

AND THEN. And then!!!! You jump cut to Robin waking up in the field with all the sunshine and Chrom’s smiling down with the softest expression and his ridiculously blue eyes. He lifts Robin up by the hand and pulls them right up to his face (because he has no concept of personal space, apparently) and OUUuuggh.

Those scenes in direct sequence make me so insane. You get Chrom’s life ending with Robin immediately followed by Robin’s life starting anew with Chrom. Chrom’s unwavering faith in them and his eagerness to extend his hand and bridge the gap between them from the moment they meet until his last breath. The warmth and kindness and love that Chrom treats Robin with is communicated so effectively in the first few MINUTES of the game it honestly makes me feel unwell. Showing how profoundly Chrom cares for Robin immediately endears him to the player. And he only gives you more reasons to love him as the game goes on.

Personality:

There can be a tendency in some corners of fandom to simplify Chrom to just being either a generic prince charming type character or a lovable himbo. I’m not here to police how other people enjoy him, but I will say that those characterizations fail to get at some of the aspects of his personality I find most compelling.

Chrom is deceptively nuanced. While there are certainly ways in which he aligns very closely with the standard jrpg protagonist, I suspect that a lot of his enduring popularity is the result of the ways he deviates from it too. He is brave and loyal and cares deeply for his friends, yes. He has profound conviction in his ideals and strives to do the right thing, as is typical for that archetype…but what makes Chrom so lovable is his determination to keep trying to be good in spite of the ways it does not come easily to him.

We see this in the Valm arc, when he’s struggling to reconcile his own beliefs about justice with his sister’s ideals for peace. We hear echoes of it when he talks about the horrors the Ylissean people endured at his father’s hand and how despite that, he has never been able to understand how Emmeryn forgave them for the cruelty they once directed her way. He has so much admiration for his older sister’s ideals despite the fact that peace is not his first instinct. 

When Emmeryn first sacrifices herself, Chrom is consumed with grief and rage, and it takes some time for him to understand why she made the decision she did. “Peace above all else” is just not how he’s programmed to operate…yet he wants it to be. If you count the drama CDs as canon, then that serves as another excellent example as well—where the message of his sister’s sacrifice is so lost on him that his first instinct is to respond to it with violence and prejudice and hatred directed at the very people she sought to reach out to. For a moment there, we see him veer from the person he wants to be towards what we as the player can only assume is the person his father left him afraid that he would become.

And yet he finds his way back. He stumbles, he lashes out, but his love for his friends and fear of losing more of those he holds dear is able to help him course correct.

I love that tug-of-war in him. I love that we get glimpses of the darker paths he could have gone down and that there are tangible consequences for his mistakes. Early in the game, we see Chrom lose control of his temper and how Gangrel and Aversa are able to take advantage of that to officially declare war on Ylisse. Chrom later tells Gangrel that were he alone, he can imagine losing himself in that need for vengeance but reiterates that it’s love that is able to keep him from succumbing to that.

And it’s not only that he’s able to stop himself from being horrible—his losses are the catalyst for him coming into his own as a leader. He’s able to pick himself up and hold himself together to see their troops through the rest of the war. And he manages that despite the fact that in the course of mere days, he lost both his home and his most important person and has been freshly saddled with the duty of ruling an entire country. That’s…a lot. And really goes a long way in demonstrating Chrom’s incredible strength of character and conviction. We get some wonderful moments of vulnerability where he confesses to being riddled with doubts about his own capabilities and worthiness, but in spite of that, he is still determined to try to be the person that Ylisse needs him to be.

All of this leads me right into another wonderful aspect of Chrom’s personality, which is that he is just…so driven by emotion. He feels DEEPLY, and while the narrative definitely uses that as a way to hurt him and force him to grow at times, something that really stands out to me about Chrom is how the story isn’t here to send a message that it’s wrong for him to be that way. Chrom’s big feelings are one of his greatest strengths in addition to his greatest weakness—they’re what saves his life and ultimately Robin’s too, if you go the sacrifice ending route.

And ya know what? I honestly think that’s such a breath of fresh air. I love how much he does NOT embody the emotional disconnectedness that you see pushed a lot of times with stereotypical masculinity. I love that he is the hero, and he's gallant, and very traditionally "manly" in a lot of senses…AND that he's also very emotional and guided by his heart. If you’re playing with f!Robin then you wind up with a really refreshing inversion of gender stereotypes from that: in which Chrom is the emotional decision maker and Robin is the more calculating and logic driven of the two.

Beyond his big heart, I can’t talk about what’s so charming about Chrom’s personality without touching on the ways he embodies a certain level of gap moe as well. Chrom is so stern and serious, as well as quite charismatic when he’s speaking from a place of passion. But on the flip side of that, we get to see him as an absolute bumbling mess when he’s out of his element. He’s easily embarrassed / flustered, self-conscious about his appearance, and often socially awkward where romance is involved. While these traits may seem of minor importance compared to the whole rant above, I think they’re really important for humanizing and rounding him out.

There are lots of other nuances to his characterization that go a long way in fleshing him out too. Despite being a prince, Chrom is blunt and completely unmindful of formalities. That, along with his impulsivity, definitely gets him into trouble sometimes. He’s melodramatic and blisteringly sincere. He’s a little bit clumsy and doesn’t know his own strength. He has a dry sense of humor and can be surprisingly funny. He’s optimistic and trusting—not due to naivete or stupidity but because he has decided that giving people chances and believing the best of them is an important value to him and one that is worth embodying in how he lives his life. 

Lucina’s presence in the story and his immediate and complete acceptance of her is an extremely effective way of demonstrating what an incredible father he is too. Honestly, he just has really wonderful relationships and deep admiration for a lot of the women in his life and that absolutely earns him points in my book (and I suspect in many others’ as well). When you look at all of that together, I don’t think it’s hard to understand why he’s so beloved.

Design:

Slightly less serious note here, but I think it warrants discussion regardless because character design absolutely contributes to player’s feelings about and interpretation of a game’s cast members.

And Chrom is…well, he’s eye candy, honestly. He’s got the nice, exposed arm, the messy blue hair, the completely nonsensical outfit he somehow manages to look handsome in anyway (his questionable sense of fashion is a charm point, okay?). Add in the square jaw and the surprisingly long eyelashes and he’s just. He’s very pretty. Idk what to tell you. Bonus points for the summer scramble cg where he has the most inexplicably flat butt of all time. And I really do believe that some of the oddities of Chrom’s design lend memorability to him and go a long way in setting him apart from other lords in the series with similar design concepts. The insistent asymmetry across many of his outfits, the fact he’s showing a little skin, idk it just WORKS. Chrom is hot, I don’t make the rules.

Relationship with Robin / the Player Character:

Last but not least, I want to talk about Chrom’s relationship with Robin.

I touched on some of this in his character introduction already, but Chrom is just…the biggest Robin stan. If Robin has only one fan then that is Chrom. If Robin has no fans it’s because Chrom is bleeding out on the floor with lightning in his gut. 

He just has such deep respect and admiration for them. He values Robin’s opinion and insight and thinks so highly of them and their ideas, often serving as an enabler in many cases (setting the boats on fire, the volcano, etc.). Chrom’s faith in Robin is SO unshakable that when his daughter tells him that Robin is going to be magically controlled and forced to murder him, his response is, “That won’t happen because Robin and I love each other so much that everything will somehow be okay. No, I will not elaborate.” And ya know what? He was RIGHT. Their bond DOES wind up being so strong that it’s able to change fate. The narrative is quite literally validating his slightly ridiculous insistence that him and Robin just care about each other The Most of Anyone Ever. He is Robin’s biggest advocate from the moment they meet when he defends them from Frederick’s suspicions all the way to the game’s close when he either assures Robin that their life was worth preserving or, as in the case of the sacrifice ending, that he will spend the rest of his own life searching for them until they return.

Honestly the fact that Chrom was willing to potentially risk dooming the whole world to the fell dragon’s awakening 1,000 years down the line just so he doesn’t have to lose his comfort tactician is WILD. For the game’s hero to literally say “we don’t have to defeat this evil for good, the people of the future can figure it out” JUST so he can keep Robin is absolutely unhinged behavior and I love it. I think it’s incredibly humanizing that he’s a little bit selfish about the people who are most important to him…that despite his willingness to sacrifice himself or run headfirst into danger, he draws the line at losing Robin because he’s already lost his most important person once and he’s not going to let it happen again. Chrom and Robin absolutely come across as a little codependent and a lot obsessed with each other and personally I wouldn’t have it any other way.

And then there’s his love confession to Robin. GOd...

I think that’s the most flustered Chrom appears in any content in the entire game…and it’s because he treasures their friendship so deeply that he is petrified about messing it up or saying the wrong thing. I love that he goes into their S support dead set on NOT telling Robin what is going on but the second he realizes that Robin is under the impression he doesn’t care about them or like spending time with them anymore he is so horrified and desperate to correct that line of thinking that he blurts out the full love confession on the spot.

He’s SO earnest throughout the whole thing, but then at the end he hits you with the whole “this is the best day of my life”, and the “You are the wind at my back and the sword at my side. Together, my love, we shall build a peaceful world, just you and me” (thank you Matt Mercer for your services), and the cg image of him staring right at Robin with what are basically heart eyes and. I just. There were no survivors.

That’s not even their only proposal / love confession scene either! The fact that the game gives us an entirely separate alternate proposal that’s more serious in tone is the icing on the cake. How many ships out there can say that they get not one but TWO canon proposals that are both that good? Truly no one is doing it like chrobin.

Closing Remarks:

Chrom is a well written and nuanced character who struggles and grows over the course of the story while always remaining true to himself and his ideals. His intense and unending trust, admiration, and love of Robin endears him to the player from the moment the game begins all the way to its conclusion. He is kind and good while still being fundamentally flawed (and it doesn’t hurt that he’s very handsome to boot). Bearing all that in mind, while the message of Awakening may be that nothing is inevitable, Chrom’s conceit and execution were always going to lead to MANY of those who play the game coming to love him and pick him as Robin’s husband…and there may be no greater evidence of that then the fact I’m out here writing all of this eleven years after the game’s release.

[trifargo]

proposing some kind of alternate 2/2, where the thieves decided to check on joker just to make sure he's not tempted by maruki's deal, barged in to the cafe, and found out that akechi's life on limbo. more in cut

so if you ask me, i actually enjoyed their rivalry relationship a lot! but i also think it's placed in an awkward situation: the thieves don't hate him, especially because he wasn't fully at fault, but also i'm sure some of them will hold grudge or mixed feelings about him (and i think this bleeds into the writers too*). or in case of royal trio (which interactions i also enjoyed, but have a catch:), it's kinda funny how sumire doesn't actually know what happened to akechi in depth.

it makes sense for their relationship to be more "secluded/secretive" from the team, but also this is why i find it to be rocky if their relationship continue further, be it platonic or romantic, whatever you prefer. i can't imagine how will futaba feel if she found out, for example – given how much she seems to not care much about akechi**. and the game (understandably, for pacing reasons) keeps on avoiding to explore the nuance of akechi-joker's relationship effects deeper in the game.

the concept is not only for joker to be even more torn seeing his friends arguing & akechi's fate, but also to see the polarization among the thieves, akechi being conflicted between disgusted and teammate care (boiler room but worse?), and maruki regretting seeing that he's not making things any better or easier for everyone, especially joker (hoo may be interesting to see how the thieves feel about maruki too after this).

well, i still wish for a P5RST game that reunites them all, one of them because i want this to be explored..... oh well. i know his arc has a closure already, but... yeah. i'm honestly more of a platonic akeshuake guy because of this (i've also always been a platonic guy in general, though), but i also don't like the crowd who thinks the PT hates him and thinks they only see them as a killer. and i think resolving the awkward situation between the PT and akechi could make more players open up about the dynamics between them that can be explored, instead of being stuck thinking the extremes.

* a prominent example of this was ryuji. ryuji brought up akechi a lot as one of the reasons upon confronting shido (he even banged the boiler room door), but then said "uh it was for joker" when akechi thanked them for taking shido down in 3rd semester mementos. while i think this is possibly because ryuji has a bigger affinity for joker because well, he's the team leader, close friend, and akechi is still at wrong, i thought it was a bit... backlashy tone wise? i was under the assumption that he did it both for akechi and especially joker, but the mementos dialog made it sound like he only did it for joker. just felt kinda rough in showing the nuance on how he feels.

** like the talk when they all found out the effects of maruki's reality wearing off. when the topic was about realizing akechi "dies" once again, she ignored it and brought up about her mother instead. though, i think this is still more of the consistent examples in writing how each thieves feel about akechi. she has always been bringing up about her mother more often in shido arc, while still can understand where akechi came from.

[qoldenskies]

i have like. such mixed feelings on the medic leo headcanon, coming from someone that has used it in pretty much all of his work so far. me and the medic leo headcanon are in an off-and-on relationship and every time i think we're done for good its outside my door with a boombox in the pouring rain and i feel like i hate myself a little when i take it back. it fucks like a champ though which makes it KIND OF worth it

cause like. i really think its an implementation thing that frustrates me more than anything else. to give leo a special THING feels like it disregards such a core facet of his character, that being that he doesn't have one and he feels like the others do. "face man" feels like overcompensating. initially, "leader" feels like too much, and it feels like something he TOOK from raph. there's really an implication that he feels like his brothers are SOMETHING without him, but he's NOTHING without them, and he directly states the second part. (so he overcompensates and acts like they do need him)

i think to make this an early-in-his-life practice kind of throws that out the window. leo taking this up when he's young doesnt fit him, i dont think, especially because i see him as a very.... high wisdom low intelligence kind of character. good street smarts terrible book smarts, and that's kind of apparent by him being so clever and intuitive while also taking stupid dares and making actively reckless decisions to look cool lmao. he would swallow a whole bottle of shampoo because mikey told him to and then be confused why he's in the medbay and raph is yelling at him like ten minutes later

HOWEVER. i think it is a very good way to explore some of the nuances of him that actually MAKE him a good leader, once he steps into that role. leo is a people person. he knows his family, he pays attention to them, he knows how to manipulate them and it would make him a diligent eye in the field. things dont get past him and it makes it hard to hide when theyre in pain from him. he's the most likely to be like "cool, i dont give a fuck" when they try to dismiss injuries. he'll happily make it an argument if he has to; he'd be as stubborn as a mule when it comes to their well-being, and he's more calculative than he looks, which means raph and donnie's usual tactics of dismissal and deflection hit a wall when he puts his foot down on something.

so really i just go out of my way to not make it something EXCLUSIVE to him when its included (and i always go out of my way to make it recent, because why would they have a designated medic who they already know to go to when the concept of crime-fighting was NEVER something they thought would really happen?). it makes the most sense to be something that STARTED with donnie, considering he refers to resuscitating piebald as "my science"; medicine is included in the field of what he enjoys and invests in. donnie is a jack of all trades in anything he can get his grubby little hands on, but ive always seen him as squeamish, which gives a good reason for leo to get involved.

but i think leo would always underestimate his capability despite lots of hands-on experience, even though hands-on is literally how he learns instead of reading books and studying like donnie does. no matter how diligent and practiced he is in the field, he's still not exclusive in it, and it doesnt feel like something that IS a big thing to him. so he can do a few stitches, big deal. donnie and splinter can already do that! who cares? raph and mikey probably could too if they actually paid attention to any of donnie's yap-sessions. no matter how much he boasts about how much they need their cool brother to patch them up, he doesn't believe it, even as he gets better and better and better.

it also gives him the opportunity to really come to face how meaningful it actually is, and to be appreciated for that, especially if donnie is out of commission and he actually gets to utilize that strength. doomed timeline angst potential right there.

[lurkingteapot]

Every now and then I think about how subtitles (or dubs), and thus translation choices, shape our perception of the media we consume. It's so interesting. I'd wager anyone who speaks two (or more) languages knows the feeling of "yeah, that's what it literally translates to, but that's not what it means" or has answered a question like "how do you say _____ in (language)?" with "you don't, it's just … not a thing, we don't say that."

I've had my fair share of "[SHIP] are [married/soulmates/fated/FANCY TERM], it's text!" "[CHARACTER A] calls [CHARACTER B] [ENDEARMENT/NICKNAME], it's text!" and every time. Every time I'm just like. Do they though. Is it though. And a lot of the time, this means seeking out alternative translations, or translation meta from fluent or native speakers, or sometimes from language learners of the language the piece of media is originally in.

Why does it matter? Maybe it doesn't. To lots of people, it doesn't. People have different interests and priorities in fiction and the way they interact with it. It's great. It matters to me because back in the early 2000s, I had dial-up internet. Video or audio media that wasn't available through my local library very much wasn't available, but fanfiction was. So I started to read English language Gundam Wing fanfic before I ever had a chance to watch the show. When I did get around to watching Gundam Wing, it was the original Japanese dub. Some of the characters were almost unrecognisable to me, and first I doubted my Japanese language ability, then, after checking some bits with friends, I wondered why even my favourite writers, writers I knew to be consistent in other things, had made these characters seem so different … until I had the chance to watch the US-English dub a few years later. Going by that adaptation, the characterisation from all those stories suddenly made a lot more sense. And the thing is, that interpretation is also valid! They just took it a direction that was a larger leap for me to make.

Loose adaptations and very free translations have become less frequent since, or maybe my taste just hasn't led me their way, but the issue at the core is still a thing: Supernatural fandom got different nuances of endings for their show depending on the language they watched it in. CQL and MDZS fandom and the never-ending discussions about 知己 vs soulmate vs Other Options. A subset of VLD fans looking at a specific clip in all the different languages to see what was being said/implied in which dub, and how different translators interpreted the same English original line. The list is pretty much endless.

And that's … idk if it's fine, but it's what happens! A lot of the time, concepts -- expressed in language -- don't translate 1:1. The larger the cultural gap, the larger the gaps between the way concepts are expressed or understood also tend to be. Other times, there is a literal translation that works but isn't very idiomatic because there's a register mismatch or worse. And that's even before cultural assumptions come in. It's normal to have those. It's also important to remember that things like "thanks I hate it" as a sentiment of praise/affection, while the words translate literally quite easily, emphatically isn't easy to translate in the sense anglophone internet users the phrase.

Every translation is, at some level, a transformative work. Sometimes expressions or concepts or even single words simply don't have an exact equivalent in the target language and need to be interpreted at the translator's discretion, especially when going from a high-context/listener-responsible source language to a low-context/speaker-responsible target language (where high-context/listener responsible roughly means a large amount of contextual information can be omitted by the speaker because it's the listener's responsibility to infer it and ask for clarification if needed, and low-context/speaker-responsible roughly means a lot of information needs to be codified in speech, i.e. the speaker is responsible for providing sufficiently explicit context and will be blamed if it's lacking).

Is this a mouse or a rat? Guess based on context clues! High-context languages can and frequently do omit entire parts of speech that lower-context/speaker-responsible languages like English regard as essential, such as the grammatical subject of a sentence: the equivalent of "Go?" - "Go." does largely the same amount of heavy lifting as "is he/she/it/are you/they/we going?" - "yes, I am/he/she/it is/we/you/they are" in several listener-responsible languages, but tends to seem clumsy or incomplete in more speaker-responsible ones. This does NOT mean the listener-responsible language is clumsy. It's arguably more efficient! And reversely, saying "Are you going?" - "I am (going)" might seem unnecessarily convoluted and clumsy in a listener-responsible language. All depending on context.

This gets tricky both when the ambiguity of the missing subject of the sentence is clearly important (is speaker A asking "are you going" or "is she going"? wait until next chapter and find out!) AND when it's important that the translator assign an explicit subject in order for the sentence to make sense in the target language. For our example, depending on context, something like "are we all going?" - "yes" or "they going, too?" might work. Context!

As a consequence of this, sometimes, translation adds things – we gain things in translation, so to speak. Sometimes, it's because the target language needs the extra information (like the subject in the examples above), sometimes it's because the target language actually differentiates between mouse and rat even though the source language doesn't. However, because in most cases translators don't have access to the original authors, or even the original authors' agencies to ask for clarification (and in most cases wouldn't get paid for the time to put in this extra work even if they did), this kind of addition is almost always an interpretation. Sometimes made with a lot of certainty, sometimes it's more of a "fuck it, I've got to put something and hope it doesn't get proven wrong next episode/chapter/ten seasons down" (especially fun when you're working on a series that's in progress).

For the vast majority of cases, several translations are valid. Some may be more far-fetched than others, and there'll always be subjectivity to whether something was translated effectively, what "effectively" even means …

ANYWAY. I think my point is … how interesting, how cool is it that engaging with media in multiple languages will always yield multiple, often equally valid but just sliiiiightly different versions of that piece of media? And that I'd love more conversations about how, the second we (as folks who don't speak the material's original language) start picking the subtitle or dub wording apart for meta, we're basically working from a secondary source, and if we're doing due diligence, to which extent do we need to check there's nothing substantial being (literally) lost -- or added! -- in translation?

[lu-is-not-ok]

Any particular thoughts on Fanghunt Hong Lu?

Yes, one very specific thought in fact.

Fanghunt Hong Lu is the most violent Hong Lu ID we have had thus far, being one that not only revels in violence like Tingtang Hong Lu or Hook Hong Lu, but also one that is actively shown torturing his victims in some genuinely stomach churning ways.

He is also the one Hong Lu ID which, while mentioning his Family, is one that doubts the very nature of what a family even is the most clearly.

This, to me, highlights a very noticeable pattern among Hong Lu's IDs.

When a Hong Lu ID is shown to be actively under his Family's control, he's either completely uninterested in violence (such as Liu) or so bored with the role he's forced into that violence is the only way he's able to push back against that boredom (K Corp and W Corp).

On the other hand, a Hong Lu ID that seems to be heavily disconnected from his Family is often one that is actively enjoying the violence he inflicts and is notably kind of fucking unhinged (Tingtang and Hook).

Fanghunt Hong Lu adds another nuance to that spectrum, being an ID that still has contact with his Family, but one who isn't specifically in a position chosen by them and who is led to doubting what a family even is by his experiences.

He shows us a possible outcome of a Hong Lu who has to actually reckon with reality and doubt what he knows about his circumstances, and the results are not pretty. After all, like I said earlier, Fanghunt Hong Lu is the most violent and most hate-filled Hong Lu we've seen up to now. He pulls out a guy's fucking teeth one by one for fuck's sake.

...And this made me think a bit. We actually have quite a few Hong Lu IDs with a Wrath Sin Affinity by now. However, Fanghunt Hong Lu is only the second we have with a Wrath Skill 3. The other one being, of course, Liu Hong Lu.

Both Hong Lu IDs with a Wrath Skill 3 seem to be to some extent aware of something being wrong regarding their Family, in very different ways that lead them into reacting to it very differently.

Liu Hong Lu seems to be aware of the fact he has no real control over what happens when he's under his Family's watchful eye, leading him into being the least violent Hong Lu of them all. He's aware of what his Family is doing to him, but he's unaware of it being abnormal.

On the other hand, Fanghunt Hong Lu seems to be unaware of the specific horrors of his Family. Rather, he's become aware that Family itself is a concept that he can't quite understand. He's seen Bloodfiends who abandon their previous families to be with their new Bloodfiend families, and it's a point of focus for him. What even is a real family?

...This, I think, is where Liu and Fanghunt Hong Lu differ the most. Liu Hong Lu knows he's being hurt, but he doesn't see any way out, that it's just how things are supposed to be, so he simply tries to live through it.

Meanwhile, though Fanghunt Hong Lu doesn't have that piece of the puzzle, he does have a different one - the seed of an idea that he could escape. Proof that one's "Real" Family doesn't have to remain their only family. He just doesn't yet realize what he'd want to escape from, so he channels the feelings he's experiencing because of that information against the immediate source of it. Instead of using that idea to free himself, he directs his anger towards those that actually tried it and succeeded.

I don't mean to keep pushing my "Hong Lu will go apeshit in Canto 8" idea, but like... The more info we get about him, the more likely that possibility becomes. After all, Fanghunt Hong Lu is a clear example of the fact that a Hong Lu aware of an escape route from one's Family could become extremely violent. That added onto the potential of Lorenzo's story told by the Priest being a parallel to Hong Lu, and the fact that the Sapling of Light Hong Lu is likely going to parallel is Chesed... It's all a lot.

[petalkitshadow]

Talking about: Darkstar!

So, the most recent chapter revealed some important info about Darkstar's backstory, info that I've been sitting on for a while and have many thoughts about. Now that the chapter's been out for a few days I want to discuss it a bit, my thought process on the matter and such! warning: it's long, so i put it under a cut

TW FOR: non-graphic discussions of (fictional) sexual assault and recovery from it

(and of course, spoilers for the new chapter)

PkS has a few "key scenes" that were the first things I came up with when conceptualizing the story, and imagining how I would present it. One of these was, of course, the battle with mapleshade, but a second one that's now escaped from containment is this last chapter, Petalpaw discovering that Darkstar's son, Perchshine, was born from sexual assault. I imagine some may have already picked up on it, from how Darkstar behaved, and her specific discomfort with Reedshine's kitting. I was nervous about including it, for sure. It's a very heavy topic, and I want to do it justice, and offer Darkstar the nuance and humanity she deserves as a victim.

So why include it? it's a bit of a roundabout tale... when doing my early drafts, I was amidst a listen of Yellowfang's Secret audiobook. Lizardstripe's story really stuck out to me. Warrior cats has, a few times, made it so a she-cat gets pregnant by surprise. Occasionally, the she-cat might be dismayed about it. but in time, they all come to love being a mother. Lizardstripe doesn't follow that. She's the one cat in warriors who has kits and doesn't want them. Now, since it's a kid's book series, i don't think children reading it would question her situation much, and i think the authors were likely betting on this being the case. But reading it as an adult... it really gives some unsettling implications.

Lizardstripe's situation isn't delved into very deeply. It's mostly set dressing for how Brokenstar became so evil. but it really stuck with me, as a reader. Warriors is a world with no birth control. The idea that a cat could be stuck with a pregnancy against their will was just... so horrifying to me. legitimately something I've had nightmares about! though I understand it's a children's book series so the topic of pregnancy and how one gets pregnant is very much glossed over, i still felt unsettled, and a bit disappointed with how Lizardstripe was portrayed. She was a woman who didn't want kids, so obviously she's physically abusive, evil, ambitious, reprehensible, one of the worst people in the series. But all i could think was... Why did no one help her? There's a scene where she seems like she's making a cry for help to Hollyflower, and is ignored, her fears glossed over, and she is told "suck it up, you'll learn to love being a mother". and how did she even get into that situation? was she, too, a victim of assault? I doubt that was the author's intention, nor do I consider that my headcanon/interpretation for her, but is still a way you could interpret her. which just sat with me, and really made me feel icky. Petalkit's shadow (and all my warriors headcanons, writings, etc) is a lot about changing things I find unsatisfactory or frustrating about the books. so, I wanted to try and create some kind of response to Lizardstripe, while also writing through my own emotions and fears, to create a story i found compelling.

Thus, my idea for Darkstar was created. I wanted to approach this concept I saw in Lizardstripe, but from a more sympathetic angle. What would happen, how would a cat in this society feel, if they were made to go through something so horrible? Darkstar has been put in an awful situation... she really has no good choices. Her belief is that any kit in RiverClan is entitled to the safety and community they have to offer - we saw that when she allowed Petalkit to stay. Making an exception for her son, even if she was forced to bear him, would go against her principles. And sending him away, where would he go? To another clan? where he may have to unknowingly fight against his mother? To a stranger outside the clans, where Darkstar has no idea if he'll be safe? and Perchshine himself, is in a horrible position, too. Obviously, he would have questions about why his mother can't look at him, why she ignores him, why she refuses to spend time with him. But what is Darkstar to say? what is any cat to say? you can't really explain it to a child. So Perchshine had to live a life feeling unwanted, seeking attention from anybody who would give it to him, leading him to be so negatively influenced by Appledusk. meanwhile, Darkstar feels eating, aching guilt over something that isn't her fault.

She has every right to not want to be Perchshine's mother. she didn't want him. she was assaulted. he shouldn't be her responsibility. But again, she really has no good choices. That summarizes her character, i think. she is never given an easy solution. every choice she makes will always hurt somebody. she usually picks the option that will hurt herself. but When Appledusk's affair is revealed, she sends Mapleshade away. she's just a few months off an extremely traumatic experience. she confesses herself, she almost felt jealousy, that starclan would take mapleshade's kits instead of hers, when Mapleshade loved her own so fiercely. and she could see the tension between maple, reed, and apple. she knew if maple stayed, there would be more problems. problems she simply didn't have the emotional bandwith for. she put perchkit first by having him stay in the clan, even though he would be a reminder of what happened to her. she didn't step down or run away from her leadership. she continued supporting her clan and putting the others first. so I think, in that moment, she decided for once to put herself first. she sent mapleshade away. and she paid for it dearly, when she loses reedshine, her first apprentice, and one of her closest friends.

Darkstar's story up until now has been very tragic. But I don't want that to be all there is to her. The first side of this concept, of course, is "wow, this is really fucked up and depressing". but I want there to be another side to it. Darkstar endured this terrible thing, and has a lot of hurt inside of her. But in the end, she's still alive. She can heal, and she can move on. no matter what her life is still worth living, and she has cats who care about her and want to help her. I think this duality always makes a really compelling character for me. It's motivating, for me, to imagine that no matter how much you have suffered, no matter how terrible things seem, you can always keep going. (It's a sentiment I've had to remind myself many times in my life - sure, maybe giving up is easier. but your life is worth living, even when it's difficult) Alongside the cautionary tale about anger destroying you, this would probably be the other thesis of Petalkit's Shadow. Keep going, you will make it out alive. and one day, it won't hurt so much anymore. so as the story has reached this tipping point, I'm excited to move forward, and start showing this other side of Darkstar, where her recovery continues, and she is able to re-embrace the things and the people she loves!

Anyways, I've just had a lot of thoughts in my head, and wanted to finally be able to share them since the chapter got published. Thanks so much for reading everyone, i really appreciate it! <3

[bapple117]

Figured there was no harm in double checking lol. So… do you think bill is even capable of desiring or wanting sex? Would he just…….. be doing things to people lmao, can anything of his be touched sexually? Also maybe a weird question, but has Doc even felt anything physically like that, being that they have a human body, or no?

Okay I'm gonna be answering this after the jump - fair warning! My answer is 18+, minors DNI, and anyone who feels weird about thinking about the characters in this context just SCROLL AWAY! I'm serious! I'm answering this in a mature way, taking it seriously as an interesting question. I don't want any judgy looks, so I'm giving you ample time to walk away right now... Okay! With that disclaimer said...

So in regards to what I think about canon!Bill - I think he'd have fairly little to no interest in sexual gratification for the most part, given the fact he doesn't have a corporeal form / genitals (that we know of LOL) in his triangle state.

I think he would probably enjoy the psychological aspects of controlling / influencing someone ELSE'S physical experience, though - in a consensual scenario, I imagine he would be the one exclusively doing things to the other person, getting more of a mental satisfaction from it rather than physical. Like, "Huh! Poking you there makes that kinda reaction, does it? Well, this just got interesting!" sort of deal.

I also think gratification via proxy is an interesting concept too, ie, Bill possessing a human and experiencing what they feel through them. I've read fics exploring this idea - both the human being consciously aware of what's going on, with Bill inside their mind feeling the same sensations and controlling them - I think that's as close as canon!Bill would get to experiencing real sexual feeling / gratification.

Obviously there's scope there for a more non-consensual reading of those situations, but I'm not really one for non-con so I won't comment on that.

In regards to fanon!Bill, I think there's more of a spectrum available for exploration, depending on what that version of Bill looks like. I've seen lots of takes on human!Bill (both art and written) that explore him coming to terms with having human sensations / desires in a really interesting and nuanced way, and I think that's a really cool approach. A non-human entity suddenly becoming human and being like "Ew, gross! This body is weird. But... food tastes nice and being touched is fun..." is a trope I greatly enjoy, personally. In regards to MY Bill, as in, the one I am writing in The Theraprist... Hrm. The one I'm writing is going through a lot of character development that isn't present in canon so it's hard to compare, but I think it would involve a mixture of the above with some slight differences. My headcanon is that he has erogenous zones even as a triangle, so any kind of intimacy with him wouldn't look like typical intercourse, but would be possible in a manner of speaking. Maybe his edges are sensitive to being licked, etc etc.

I won't be writing anything sexually explicit IN The Theraprist, but if I were to explore that in a seperate work (maybe a one-shot or something) I would definitely go for that angle (pun intended.) Obviously, if it was happening in the Mindscape... Well. That opens a lot more opportunities. Anything is possible in there... In regards to Bill's past on Earth, times he possessed humans... Well. That's actually something I'm going to allude to in the fic itself, so I'll keep my thoughts on that up my sleeve for now. As for Doc, I think I'll mostly leave that up to reader interpretation, as I wouldn't want to project my own headcanons on to a character who's meant to be a faceless blorbo anyone can insert themselves in as. BuuuuUUUuut if I AM coming at it more from a "this is my original character" point of view, then I'd say that... Yeah I think they've been around. They've been alive for thousands of years and can turn into anything they want - I'm sure they've fooled around with something at SOME point. Not as a human, though - them turning into a human to be Bill's therapist was the first time they had shifted into one, ever. I touched briefly on the whole "getting used to human biology" theme with them here and there, hinting at the potential for more...

Maybe I will explore it more explicitly eventually! Hope that answers your question :)

[octosan]

Working on one of the videos for my drinking game series and I got mad and wrote a whole rant that I realized was a little too much for a drinking game post.

I just hate this script so much you guys. I hate SO MUCH how much they simplified the dialogue, the worldbuilding, the puzzle solving in this game.

I've seen a lot of complaints about fans being illiterate towards the story and to that I say of course they are! The game doesn't ask them to think! Rather than throwing up your hands saying "maybe they had a good reason to dumb down the dialogue and spoonfeed you this stuff"

consider that critical thinking is a muscle

and players do not exercise it when the game is afraid you will forget the core premises of the game, or individual missions, and so repeat them constantly.

When your companions all get along and share the same basic principles beyond bland culture differences, and their principles are all ones deemed acceptable to "modern" audiences, so you never have to think about what life experiences might have led them to feel that way.

When you have your companions constantly patting you and the other companions on the back and saying "nice job!!" in combat as if we wouldn't understand that they are friends otherwise.

When you constantly have characters make juvenile comments like "this is evil, even for the venatori!" or "they did that just for power?/greed?" or "man this makes me hate the venatori even more!" (even more?? these are fantasy nazis!!! you didn't hate them already??) and then don't give the evil factions any nuance because they're afraid you won't get that these factions are eeeeeevil. (The Venatori were never very nuanced outside Calpernia but at least there was lip service that they were a symptom of broader issues, not the convenient cause.)

When you're constantly explaining to the player how many blight pustules they still need to pop, how many crystals you have left, and oh!! the gate's open now! go through the gate! or look! there are darkspawn there where your camera is already pointed! Even late in the game they were doing this! Even at the end of Bellara's questline she was explaining that laser mechanic to me!

When they present you with lore reveals that have been highly anticipated for decades, as well as multiple memories which are meant to add to our interpretation of a core character, and they literally just tell you what to think about them and how to interpret them, at length, in that godawful regret questline. (And tbh even Solas' memories in the Crossroads did not tell me anything I did not already know)

And then Mythal saying "hey those murals are not 100% reliable memories" in a single missable dialogue option that we don't address any further, rendering even that agonizing bit of handholding pointless. Like okay what does it MATTER that they are not 100% reliable? because the redemption ending relies on your interpretations of it being 100% correct!! what purpose does that line serve except to give the writers deniability?

When you don't even bother to GIVE new worldbuilding details when they could absolutely be relevant at the time, except when it makes the writers' job easier like "turlum" or Bellara's clan's funeral practices being indistinguishable from ancient elven ones even though that's literally not what we were told about Dalish practices in the past, guess the Emerald Graves don't exist anymore-. Like just as one example that has stuck in my head, Elgy and Ghilly use terms like The Blight, Archdemons, Darkspawn, the Crossroads, etc. despite being from time periods that predate those terms and presumably having their own words for those same concepts. You can't tell me that Ghilly honestly thinks of her beloved hell children as "darkspawn", or that she would tolerate other people calling them that. You can't tell me that Elgy would agree to call his instrument of reshaping the world, which he is trying to convince people is a good thing, the Blight.

When the game actively punishes people who are familiar with the prior materials with their worldbuilding, punishes people who are reading the codex entries and looking for minor throwaway lines that acknowledge previous shit like the fact that Crows are literally tortured as part of their training and killed if they fail contracts, by having it not be remotely relevant to the story and make it much harder to have the appropriate reaction to what's happening in it (like Rook has no choice but to be happy Jacobus is taking in more orphan crows??) This is low-hanging fruit but it's so illustrative of what I mean.

What other outcome is this all going to have but players who do not look further than the surface? Who miss and ignore little details they have been trained to think do not matter and largely do not inform the broader story and characters? Players who are easily stumped on puzzles because they were not allowed to figure anything else out by themselves?

Are you going to claim that the Orzammar questline in Origins didn't teach anybody a lesson about paying close attention to the social structures and culture of a society when you pick the person who's going to rule it, as opposed to picking the guy who the narrative frames as wise and kind and the other guy framed as a power hungry third child? Are you going to claim that the Archon choice teaches anything remotely as useful?

Like!!!!

GOD

Inquisition had plenty of this stupid handholding too btw. You can argue all of the games had it by degrees. but it wasn't even remotely this bad.

[batmanlovesnirvana]

You know what villain I’d like to see in The Batman Trilogy ? PROFESSOR PYG. This man would fit so well in Reeves Universe. Lazlo Valentin, the pig-mask wearing, opera-singing lunatic surgeon, is the serial killer behind The Perfect Crime sidequest in the Arkham games.

This man makes Joker look sane himself.

Hell even an hallucination of the Joker considered Pyg to be too insane, you've got to be a special kind of nuts to even make someone like the Joker of all people think that. Joker will normally make a comment about the villains Batman puts away in the GCPD, the comments he makes for Pyg pretty much show that, if Joker were alive, even he would be put off by how deranged Pyg is, and this is coming from the hallucination of someone considered absolutely insane by most of Gotham City.

He honestly terrifies me. One of those Batman villains I could see some version of actually existing and its just intensely scary to me. Also the way he talks in Arkham is downright disturbing.

Professor Pyg in concept is an intriguing foil to Batman, the problem is the comics treat the character with bare minimum characterisation. Even, Hush by comparison feels nuanced and layered.

Personally prefer Gotham’s portrayal of the character. That version creeped me out, rather than the hyperbolic or shock horror version in the comics.

In conclusion, I like him a lot. I think a lot of people write him off as being a generic psycho killer or “creepy for the sake of being creepy” but I think he’s more interesting than that. It makes me wonder if those people actually even know anything about him. He does need some more fleshing out though which will hopefully come with time as he’s a relatively new addition to the rogues gallery.

[formula-ghost]

Hey not to be demanding but you know in Wildflower, it would be interesting of Y/N asks Oscar if he talked to Lily like that when they had sex. Like that would be an interesting thing to explore. Is the degradation sex talk an Oscar thing? Or does Oscar just talk like that to Y/N? Why? Is it because Lily is a wifey material to his eyes? Someone he cant get turned on degrading. And he talks like that to Y/N during sex because he feels like he can? That that’s her level and that’s how he sees her- someone to fuck and use? While he sees Lily as this “respectable” ( i dont know what word to use) woman, the kind you take home and introduced to your parents?

Might be a heavy topic to open but I think it’s interesting. You know sometimes how men are completely different people to their wives than to their mistresses? Like they show up to their wives differently than they do to their mistresses because they view them differently. That kind of topic sounds interesting to explore and unpack. I dont mind Oscar looking like an ass because I’m sure your writing will make his character nuanced.

Hi anon, this is not demanding at all! I am so thankful that people care enough about my stories to actually analyze it and bring up really cool points like this.

To be honest, I didn’t even think of it through that lens. I’ve read a lot of Oscar x reader fics and the concept of him being into rough/degrading stuff is one that has shown up a surprising amount of times, so it felt like to me that it was just kind of an accepted piece of fanon? I wanted to include it because I did want to highlight the lack of love between them while keeping the intensity of it, because it’s really hard for me to write vanilla sex where there’s no love or tenderness (because then it’s just like, the mechanics of sex rather than anything emotional and that’s sooooo boring to me personally).

I talked about this in another ask too but I also want to show a more sympathetic side to Oscar in future chapters, because while he is an absolute ass to reader, he is a flawed and just a broken human being at the end of it all. The problem is that he’s trying to avoid accepting that in his relationship with the reader instead of actually accepting what has happened and trying to really heal.

I think that dynamic is fascinating and heartbreaking, though! I think I might explore it in another fic because it honestly reminds me more of how I write Franco? I was wanting to do an alpine social media manager reader x Franco one shot, and I can imagine scenes of them hooking up at the paddock but then he goes off with some model or something because he “has a reputation to uphold” or something like that. Something perhaps the people would be interested in? 👀

[cyren-myadd]

Avatar official account posted their screenplay of the Sullys arrived at the Metkayina clan on their TikTok. This part here caught my eye. Neytiri has a secret shame that her kids are half half-human.

What's your thoughts?

oh man, I have some really mixed feelings about this ngl...

First thing I want to say before I get into my rant is remember that not everything in the old script is canon, so Neytiri feeling ashamed of her children isn't canon as of right now, but there's a possibility this will be confirmed in a later movie.

A little self-disclosure, I'm engaged to a guy who is from a different race and culture than me, and I'd like to have a kid with him at some point. My partner and I have discussed the fact that our kids would be mixed, and we've already made plans to teach them both of our native languages and make sure they're exposed to both of our cultures. Even though my kids will be different from me in some ways, I don't care, I'll still love them no matter what and I can't imagine ever being ashamed of their differences-- especially since I was the one who chose to have children with a man who was a different race/culture.

While Avatar is completely fictional, the romance between Jake and Neytiri is a clear allegory for a real-life mixed-race couple, with their children's "hybrid" traits being an allegory for real-life mixed-race children feeling insecure about their features. Obviously, not everything is a one-to-one allegory, since Neytiri has been directly and violently victimized by Jake's people and most modern mixed-race couples in my country deal with more systemic forms of oppression instead, but the allegory is still there.

To be completely honest, if the writers actually follow through with this line from the script and show Neytiri being ashamed of her children on-screen, I might actually start to hate Neytiri. Her other character flaws, like her chauvinism, her resistance to change, and her hypocrisy about Jake vs Spider, are completely understandable, especially since she's been through unbelievable amounts of trauma because of humans. I still like Neytiri a lot even with her flaws. But being ashamed her own kids? The kids she chose to birth/adopt, knowing they were hybrids? These two babies right here?

I am really, really trying to be understanding here, 'cause Neytiri's been through trauma that I could never imagine, but still... ma'am those are YOUR babies. I don't think any kind of trauma justifies being ashamed of your children for something they have no control over.

Whenever I see that screenshot, all I can imagine is Kiri or Lo'ak finding out their mom feels ashamed of them. Could you imagine? They would be absolutely crushed. I think Lo'ak especially would have some kind of a crisis over it, since he's already so insecure about being a hybrid. Even Miles freaking Quaritch, the vengeful colonizing monster, isn't ashamed of his son being so different from him.

For the record, I know the only reason I feel so strongly about this is because I'm projecting my own feelings about being in a mixed-race relationship and planning to have mixed-race kids onto Neytiri. But I feel the way I feel, and if this ever becomes canon I would never be able to look at her the same way, so I'm hoping this idea stays in the old script and never sees the light of day again.

No matter what happens, this is James Cameron's story, and I trust him to deliver a fantastic movie even if I don't like everything about it. Besides, this is only one line. It doesn't go in-depth into the nuances of Neytiri's feelings. Maybe if they choose to go with this concept and flesh it out better, I'll change my mind about it, who knows.

I'm also gonna add this here, cause I know how tumblr is: these are just my personal feelings on the topic-- my personal feelings that are completely subjective and are greatly effected by my own life experiences. I know some people like this idea and think it would be a great thing to explore for Neytiri's character, and if you think that, then great, good for you, no hate to anyone with a different opinion.

[joltai-showa]

This post is a reply to these two posts, so if you wanna see me go insane over how Kishimoto completely managed to fail at writing Obito aka the villain that was the main threat for the majority of Naruto and Rin, do check them out first.

So PSA before continuing reading this: I will be replying to both posts consequetevely, which means that there's likely gonna be a bunch of stuff repeated. I don't like to sound like a broken record, but so many of my issues with Obito, Rin and Obirin crash into certain stuff that it's important to bring it up whenever it is needed.

And yes, I really dislike Obirin. On a good day for me this ship brings me as much excitement as drinking plain room-temperature water and chewing on some stale soggy white bread. It's a ship of the worst variety to me - it's simply boring, a good awkward boy and a good nice girl who's entire life seems to revolve about being emotional support pillow for said boy. And that's on a good day, because the manga aka canon generally isn't having a good day when it comes to the writing of these two, so these characters and their ship as it stands in canon requires the reader to switch between ignoring approximately 90% of what Obito does and approximately 50% of Rin does to get to the perception of cutesy doomed love that Kishimoto desperately wants to peddle. If the reader does not follow what Kishimoto wants to tell them (but isn't capable of showing at all), then what actually ends up happening is two psychotic bipolar little maniacs blabbering about some senseless bullshit that results in about a hundreds of thousands of people dead for ABSOLUTELY no reason.

(and yes if you have never come across my posts previously, I am prone to swearing, it is not some sort of agression against you or anything, this is simply how I am used to writing my own analysis posts)

so let's start with @innovativestruggles points:

I have always been an avid obirin shipper, and as a feminist, people may question the contradictory nature of this.

I'll be completely honest with you, the fact that you were attempting to defend anything female character related in Naruto is already brave enough, considering that Kishimoto can not write a female character for his life. Almost all of them end up being entirely depended on male character's goals and desires, almost all of them end up following in the "designated important male character's" steps, they pretty much have no interests or goals of their own, just their guy. Rin is even worse than that, because she is not even a proper character, again, on a good day she is just a placeholder thing for a female character, and in general in the manga she is nothing more than a plot device, a function that takes actual characters like Obito and Kakashi and produces some sort of results with them while she acts as the supposed reason for their actions. I specifically say supposed, because Kishimoto wouldn't be himself if he did not write Obito in such a horrible manner that all three of Obito's bullshit mantras that he is producing after his reveal did not clash with his MANY MANY horrific actions.

Obito is in an incredibly complex character and alas, there is a reason why I absolutely love him. He is my favourite, has always been and will always be (also, he’s a villain and he’s hot). Though there are parallels between Obito and Naruto, it’s important to distinguish the nuances. Both characters had no family growing up (I am not going to count Obito’s grandma as she is an anime only character and not technically canon), had it tough at the Academy, disliked by a lot of people and technically an outlier.

Obito as a concept desperately wants to be a complex character, but Kishimoto needed him to go through a shitty redemption arc real quick, thus Obito ended up being reduced to a 1.5 dimensional character that has exactly three types of arguments:

endless boring yapping about Rin (which feels like 80% of what he speaks about. ever.) about 5 of same frames shoved into the reader's throat every time this happens. real fascinating stuff, especially when this is what happens for 30 chapters straight (I am not kidding, I reread Naruto from 599 to about 660s, my eye is twitching)

woah look the world is such a hell (*insert three pages of nihilistic bullshit*). seems to be a critique of the shinobi world, but when you look into it - no, this is just this 30 year old man throwing a temper tantrum against not the system itself, but something like "friends dying", "friends betraying", "just death in general". Nothing of actual value that would make him the supposed destroyer of the system and savior of humanity, no, he is acting like an absolutely delusional child. the fact that this particular character does this is riduculous and a fucking insult to the reader's intelligence, because this guy has NO FUCKING reason to be this swallow and, I would even say, idiotic. this man has commited way too many war crimes and is responsible for far too many deaths, directly or indirecly, to ever have the fucking right to have the same stupid rhethoric that Naruto has. I can only say FUCK YOU to Kishimoto whenever he pulls this thing out of his ass in an attempt to make any of Obito's actions seem justified. Obito literally never manages to pinpoint anything correct of the system's faults (AND GOD IS THE SYSTEM FAULTY)

actual abuser ramblings. I feel like I am about to become Joker whener this shit happens. Obito kills someone, or someone who worked under Obito kills someone de-facto on Obito's orders, something happens as a result of Obito's actions - AND OBITO, GRABBING RANDOM SHINOBI #1314146 LIKE AN ABUSIVE HUSBAND WOULD GRAB HIS WIFE, STARTS SCREAMING INTO THEIR FACES, ALL SATISFIED AND HAPPY "LOOK! LOOK! SEE WHAT A TERRIBLE THING HAPPENED! ARE YOU FEELING DESPAIR OF THIS WORLD? GOSH THIS WORLD IS TERRIBLE! BUT DON'T WORRY, I'LL FIX THIS. JUST STOP RESISTING ME AND ALL WILL BE FINE." and NO ONE in the manga EVER bothers calling out this bullshit, because that would make Kishimoto admit that Obito is not a poow liwwle baby boi🥺🥺🥺🥺that just lost hiw way🥺🥺🥺🥺and aktually onli wanted to be with his fwiends and become the Hokawe🥺🥺🥺🥺but an absolutely batshit insane piece of shit that has no hill to die on

And you think I am being overly dramatic with the whole "abuser talk", here's some lovely stuff from chapter 646

For context, Obito activates the Divine Tree that kills a bunch of shinobi after instantly sucking away their chakra. And then he has the audacity to say that shit while everyone's watching how Mr. Genocide turns their comrades into husks. And if you think that, well, this is just some randos, they are here to raise the stakes of this endless battle, but no, Shikamaru also almost gets sent into the afterlife while Obito is preaching "if you stop fighting, I won't kill you". Just what an awesome guy.

But I got off track, back to the reply. Post 599 Kishimoto goes fucking ham on the parallels between Naruto and Obito... especially the ones that weren't even there. Because he is perfectly aware that even with the whole delulu savior shit that Naruto gets by using talk-no-jutsu, if things are left as they were pre-599 (which pretty much includes only Kakashi Gaiden aka 239-244), Naruto HAS ZERO REASON not to cave Obito's skull in and drop this asshole's corpse somewhere in the nearest ditch. Kishimoto, starting with Obito's reveal, adds more and more shit for Naruto to latch on, because otherwise what we have is a protagonist who pretty much doesn't have any companions who didn't get their lives completely fucked over by Obito, not too mention that 99% of Naruto's suffering comes DIRECTLY from Obito's actions.

So let's look at these GREAT parallels, which, thankfully, Kishimoto decided to put out in one monologue of Naruto's in chapter 653

neither knew their parents

correct, but a very simple a short question from me🥰so who is the reason for Naruto never knowing who his parents were? Who was such a meanie to take away Naruto's family? Who put fucking bombs on him 5 minutes after his birth?

(chapter 501)

Oh, right. The poow liwwle baby boi who only had Rin as his light and just dreamed about becoming Hokage.

I will go off track again, because the manga itself brings it up, but it's another important thing that Kishimoto wishes his readers to lobotomize themselves about: the timeline

The murder of Kushina, the resulting death of Minato and the destruction of Konohagakure all happened 16 years before the events of Shippuden. For the sake of simplicity, Shippuden will be set in year 80 (after Konoha's foundation), so the attack took place in year 64.

Obito is 30 (I have seen that he is sometimes supposed to be 31, but 30 is easier on the shaky lore of Naruto) in Shippuden. The Kannabi bridge mission was supposed to be around the same age that team 7 had in OG Naruto - 12-13. So Kannabi happened in year 62-63. Meaning, that IN BEST CASE SCENARIO between Obito waking up at Madara's and

1) murder of his teacher's wife 2) battle to death with his teacher 3) murder of his classmate's mother (the woman that Obito kills before taking Naruto? Sarutobi Biwako, Hiruzen's wife. And Hiruzen is Asuma's father) 4) large-scale destruction of the village he, supposedly, wanted to become a Hokage of

is at best A YEAR, if not just a few months. Because, again, Obito was recovering for some time, then the whole Rin's death scene, and then Madara trained him and explained him the plan. According to Obito's flashback in 600s, Madara kills himself by plugging himself off the Hashirama life support, and only after that Obito starts the whole grooming Nagato for the plan and attacks Konoha.

I point this out because I have seen numerous times how the defenders of poow liwwle boi Obito try to deflect the blame for Obito's actions by claiming that Madara made him do this. Madara WAS DEAD during all of this shitshow. Moreover, as you will see later in this post, Obito repeatedly does things that are NOT aligned with the whole ideal world creation and salvation for everyone, moreover, they oftentimes CONFLICT with this plan, and just outright scream I AM A PSYCHO WHO WANTS TO COMMIT MASS MURDER FOR SHITS AND GIGGLES

First of all, yes, let's admire how righteous and totally not maniacal Obito looks at the moment. "Do you know how long I have waited for this" MY ASS SHUT UP you're a cringe 14 year old. Secondly, let's hear out his wonderful plan, which is "gonna extract Nine-Tails, gotta crush Konoha". And while the first point does correlate with Eye of the Moon - they need the Tailed Beasts, after all - but then in Obito's flashbacks we learn THAT NAGATO WAS NOT ON HIS SIDE YET. THE GUY WHO CAN CONTROL GEDO MAZO AND STORE THE TAILED BEASTS IS STILL NOT WORKING WITH THEM. WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU ATTEMPTING TO STEAL NINE-TAILS THEN?? WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO PUT HIM??? Oh, maybe Obito kept a close eye on Kushina and realized that she was soon gonna give birth, which would be the primary opportunity to yoink Kurama? WRONG. OBITO BY SOME SHEER COINCIDENCE OVERHEARS KAKASHI TALKING ABOUT THIS OVER RIN'S GRAVE. HE THEN PROCEEDED TO KNOCK OVER THE FLOWERS ON HER GRAVE AND THEN ATTACKS KONOHA. HOW THE FUCK IS IT HELPING WITH THE PLAN???? YOU'RE JUST GIVING THEM 29847238 OPPORTUNITIES TO RECAPTURE THE THING????? YOU'RE ATTRACTING THE WORLD'S ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT SOMEONE'S OUT THERE TRYING TO GET THEIR HANDS ON THE TAILED BEASTS??????

So, obviously, there is zero rationale for Nine-Tails' attack from the plan perspective. Well, maybe it alings with Obito's ideals, whatever the fuck they are? Obviously, glasses Obito would never do anything like WIPING OFF HIS AND HIS FRIENDS' HOMES OFF THE MAP and kill his dear sensei's FAMILY. MOREOVER, Rin fucking DIES trying to prevent Isobu from being unleashed on Konoha and decimating it, so what does our poow liwwle lover boi does? That's right, he pulls out Kurama and decimates the village only a some months after Rin died trying to protect it from the very same thing happening. Oh, wait, Kishi, so did she see that while in Pure Lands or not? Or does she have selective vision?

And mask Obito can be rationalized to do this by saying "oh, he's just showing the people the DeSpAIr", but again, this contradicts the manga with Obito saying "I don't care about this world yada yada", there is nobody who exactly would become targets for this campaign (Obito's endless speeches in 599 onwards are aimed at Kakashi/Naruto/etc) because we just see Obito interacting with Minato and Kushina, which would become despaired off the simple fact that Kushina is getting murdered by someone extracting the Tailed Beast, the village being crushed is just something on top that literally endangers his little precious plan more than it achieves anything. Is Obito ever shown to regret this as a stupid stunt or as act of terrorism against the village he supposedly love? NAHHHH WE CAN THROW IN OUR 20TH RIN FLASHBACK

Oh, and the timeline thing is important for another reason: poow liwwle boi defenders like to say that Obito went through so much and had witnessed the DarKneSS of the shinobi system, which is the reasoning for him going crazy and attacking Konoha. Obviously, this is bullshit, because the poow liwwle baby boi had no time to see anything about the grander shinobi system, he had been with Madara for several months with Madara being mildly ominous in the background and saying the most vague evil shit imaginable (before Obito runs off for Rin and Kakashi, he is still believer in the power of friendship and such, and the manga shows them having a whole wooping 1 conversation), then he witnessed Rin die, instantly became evil and commited a massacre (so much for cutie patootie liwwle boi), and then goes off to learn the plan from Madara and train to become as powerful as he is during Obito vs Minato. Even if I ignore the shitty writing that is supposed to suggest that Obito HAS ALL OF THESE IMPORTANT REALIZATIONS outside of the main plot, the timeline simply affords no place for him to comprehend the evils of the shinobi system. So yes, Obito is literally going off his anger over Rin dying and something something Minato being on another mission something something Kakashi (because there is two versions of the things Kakashi did that Obito is supposed to see, but Kishimoto conviniently shoves that little problem under the rug, god forbid we have any actual emotional interaction from Obito's character that doesn't involve the whole lazy Rin bullshit).

So, we are just on our first simularity between Obito and Naruto, and we already see that Obito's poow traumatized baby boi narrative falls apart when we decide not to go for the lobotomy Kishimoto wants, but instead realize that a) Naruto should punch Obito's skull open for ever mentioning his parents b) Obito is a mass murdering maniac with zero excuses and zero remorse

so let's continue with the parallels, shall we?

had it tough at the Academy

Now you're simply projecting Naruto's issues onto Obito. We have exactly two pages of Obito in the Academy years, and they are from chapter 599

And the thing that you are claiming as "him having it tough in the Academy" is.... him arriving late at the entrace ceremony in the Academy, Kakashi sighing at him, others kids just going back home, and Rin bringing him his entrance papers. Sorry, who is giving him a tough time here? Kakashi sighing? Kids who likely meet him for the first time not interacting with him? The Academy not waiting with finishing the ceremony because one kid is late?

Yes, this scene does show Rin being nice to him, but nothing more than that. I am not sure how old exactly the kids are in this scene, but considering Kakashi would graduate at 5, I would say that it's about 4 years old? Obito would go on to graduate at 9. A five whole wooping years that are completely not covered by this first scene.

(chapter 1)

And coming back to Naruto's issues at the Academy - Naruto was a delinquent that drew poop on the Hokages' faces AND he failed the graduation exam two times already, meaning that by 12 years old he got held back quiet a bit. He also has this little problem called being a jinchuriki, of which most parents are aware, and explicitly tell their children to stay away from him.

Obito graduates at normal time (9 years), similarly to Rin, Kurenai and Asuma. The only outliers would be Kakashi and Gai, both of whom would become two of the strongest ninja in their entire generation. Obito didn't cause trouble, in fact, it's repeatedly said that he helped the elderly around (and according to his own words even KNEW all of old people in Konoha when he meets Madara). Nobody in the village is ever stated to have anything against Obito, he's just an orphan from the Uchiha clan.

Literally nothing suggests that Obito had it tough in the Academy

disliked by a lot of people

Again, there is little confirmation of that in the manga.

Does his clan hate him? If so, why? There is no confirmation of this, moreover, Kishimoto keeps Obito's plot line and Uchiha's so apart it's actually absurd, but nothing in the story suggests that they should hate him or even simply not care for him. This is again in contrast to Naruto's own parents, because his Namikaze lineage was hidden (regardless if there were even relatives who could have taken care of him) and Uzumaki clan was decimated some time during the Third Shinobi World War, scattering the small amount of remaining members across the globe.

Do the villagers hate him? If so, why? There's also no evidence of that, on contrary, he was very friendly and helpful to the elderly around the village, so it would not be strange if a few of them were looking out for Obito. Obito has an annoying habit of coming late and being a bit of crybaby, but that wouldn't be enough to make the villagers dislike him. Unlike Naruto who is the vessel of the nuke that ravaged the village just 12 years before he learned of the reasons behind his mistreatment by the village.

Do his classmates hate him? Again, nothing is known about his Academy years except for one singular scene where he just meets them, but 599 also shows us some more interactions between him and the other kids in his generation... during the chunin exam

Do I even need to comment on how this is not anyone disliking him? This is just how competition goes.

Oh, and there's also a bunch of other minor things in this chapter, but I think it's a good time as any to introduce them😇

This. scene. right. here. It pisses me off to no end. You wanna know why?

Because this is the FIRST time we get Obito's Hokage's bullshit.

That's right, you aren't mistaken. The original Obito introduced to us in Kakashi Gaiden (239-244) NEVER EVER states that he dreams about becoming Hokage. He says stuff about how shinobi should act, he says how he's gonna become strong and tough once he awakens his Sharingan, he says how he is gonna protect Rin and others, he says how he is gonna see the future with the eye he gave Kakashi, etc etc. BUT NOT A SINGULAR MENTION OF HOKAGE BULLSHIT.

Kishimoto, for some mysterious reason, never introduced this CORE part of Obito's character (to the point Naruto literally yaps about JUST IT when he enters Obito's inner world thanks to the power of plot) when writing the original Obito, but the moment he needed to do the whole reveal thing and the shitty redemption arc in 30 or so chapters for a guy who's been our main villain for almost 300 chapters - oh hell yeah in 599 Obito gets the same fucking dream as Naruto, because otherwise Naruto has 0.0000001 reasons not to beat up this piece of shit. So, again, FUCK YOU, Kishimoto.

Right, what I was on about? Ah, Obito's classmates. So there's a bunch of other scene where Obito - HOLY FUCKING SHIT - is seen with someone other than Rin, Kakashi and Minato (very deep character, am I right)

And it's literally Obito being focused on Rin cheering Kakashi on (you know, THEIR TEAMMATE), so no interaction between the gang and him, and then later when we see them all planning gifts for Kakashi (who became a jonin at 13, A BIG FUCKING THING) while Obito is flustered because he was planning on confessing to Rin at that moment.

So, literally, the only person amongst his classmates who openly disliked him was Kakashi, who had a damn stick up his ass and wasn't really friendly to anyone (which we can see with how pretty cold to Rin and Gai he was at the time). And, of course, because we are dealing with Kishimoto, 239-244 Kakashi is a much bigger asshole than kid Kakashi in flashbacks post 599. Like, the OG Kakashi actually bullied Obito for his weakness, while the later one was mildly irritated at Obito's habits and carefree attitude.

So, in total: nothing suggests Obito was disliked by his family, by his village or by his classmates, except for Kakashi, who was just an asshole at the time, and his assholery varies depending on what Kishimoto needs for the plot to be.

Oh, and since we are on the topic of classmates: another magical lobotomy that Kishimoto expects the readers to have is for everyone to magically assume that never ever in his entire life Obito had friends EXCEPT for Rin. And I guess Kakashi for those 2 minutes before Kakko dropped that cave on their heads. Which, again, HAS NO BASIS in what Kishimoto actually shows us. Yes, Rin was the first person to support him, but he has known other classmates for almost 10 years before Kannabi happened, yet the plot acts like there were 0 interactions between him and others, which is... not how children fucking work? I can understand Obito feeling lonely because his parents are gone, yes, but then Kishimoto slam dunks on the readers' heads that UHM AKTUALLY NO ONE FROM HIS EXTENDED FAMILY CARED FOR HIM AND UHM AKTUALLY HE HAD NO FRIENDS EXCEPT FOR THOSE IN HIS GOVERNMENT ASSIGNED TEAM AND NO ONE FROM THE VILLAGE LOVED HIM which is a lot of stuff to shove down people's throats without giving a proper reason for this. People knew that Naruto was a jinchuriki, so they stayed away from him, Sasuke was extremely traumatized by the Uchiha massacre, yet we are magically supposed to believe that Obito falls into the same category????

(also let's also mention who is responsible for Naruto's and Sasuke's loneliness... ah right, Nine-Tails crush and the Uchiha massacre, both of which were fully or partially Obito's doing🥰)

Which is why this

(chapter 616)

scene is SO fucking funny even without the whole "Obito goes full angwy babyman and starts stomping his feet and screaming YEAH LOOK AT ME LOOOOOK I AM MAD AND ANGRY AND DEPRESSED BECAUSE I HAD FRIENDS SO YOU SHOULD BE MAD ANGRY AND DEPRESSED TOO while the rest of the Alliance is scrambling to survive and grandpa Madara is chilling in the background" because no you had NO connections??? Kishimoto is desperate to peddle us that bullshit about "Rin was the only person in Obito's life (for reasons I will not be explaining because I NEED this shitty redeption arc to kick off)" and regularly manages to forget that "Connections" imply number more than one, and Obito as he is given in canon at best has TWO, 1 for Rin who is a plot device and 0.5 for Kakashi and Minato respectively. And he is insistent on "Rin was my only light yada yada"... until Kishimoto suddenly no longer needs it

(chapter 651)

As a writer I am honestly amazed at sheer bullshitery and audacity of this scene. Kishimoto literally makes the plot gaslight Obito into "Hokage comrades Konoha good Hokage comrades Konoha good Hokage comrades Konoha good". Mind you, the Hokage thing was introduced literally during the masked man reveal, Obito had NO connections to speak of with his classmates because Kishimoto was SHOVING the idea of Rin being super special to him THAT HARD, he didn't give shit about any of these people for 16 FUCKING YEARS (!), Asuma is DEAD because of the merry band of terrorist that OBITO CONTROLLED (and that's after murdering his mother), Kurenai is raising Asuma's child ALONE, and IRUKA LITERALLY DOESN'T EVEN FUCKING BELONG IN THE SAME GENERATION AS THEM???? HE BECOMES GENIN IN THE SAME YEAR NINE-TAILS ATTACKS KONOHA???? OH YEAH, OBITO ALSO MURDER IRUKA'S PARENTS WITH THE NINE-TAILS INCIDENT????? WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK KISHIMOTO? WHAT IS IRUKA DOING HERE IN THIS BASTARD'S BULLSHIT FANTASY??????? ALSO IRUKA GETS THE SCAR DURING THE NINE-TAILS INCIDENT???????????? WHAT THE FUCK???????????????

Okay, I am taking deep breaths because I am feeling like I am about to lose my damn mind. But hopefully my argument about "Obito very much wants to be a complex character, but the plot has him be 1.5 dimensional one by ignoring 90% of what Obito did and does in the manga" becomes clearer. Obito's connections come and go as Kishimoto wants them, not because they organically come from the plot, and lack of said connections is never explained, which is why I honestly don't blame people for calling Obito obsessed with Rin, because Kishimoto does desperately tells us that no, Obito didn't pull these 16 years of mass murders because of Rin, there was a higher cause... but then fails to show us anything coherent outside of endless repetition of Rin, Rin, Rin

technically an outlier

And I fully agree with this, because at least that is directly stated in the manga

(chapter 240)

The only thing I think I might add to this is, I believe, during Sasuke's first flashbacks to his family, he and Itachi actually discussed the age of awakening the Sharingan, and I think they mention that 8 is about the time most people should have it? Which would indeed place Obito quite behind as he awakens it at 13, but considering the fact that it requries the user to get traumatized, is it really a bad thing? Lmao, I guess it's just teenage boys' dreams that I don't get

However, Obito never had an older mentor growing up, whereas Naruto did (that would be Iruka)

That really depends on what you consider "growing up". I can't say with exact certanty at what point Iruka became actively invested in Naruto's life (because Kishimoto kept rewriting things + this stuff is pretty vague at where I am looking for it, meaning chapter 1, Iruka is interested in Naruto's fate because both of them are orphans, so no exact indication when did it start. but. huh. I wonder who's fault for the two of them being orphans is that), but we do know that Obito graduated from the Academy at 9, meaning about 4 years he had a mentor in Minato, so his early teenage years are covered. Nothing exactly certain about the period before that, but yeah, sure, let's agree that implicitly the plot suggest a lack of mentor for Obito's childhood.

But another thing that, I believe, should be brought up, is the start of the Third Shinobi World War. I don't wanna repeat the lecture about establishing this date, but basically the beginning of it would be right around when Obito was 8, so yes, the general political situation had significantly worsened, and Obito would have probably started feeling the effects of the war enveloping the world, but Obito soon gains an older guiding figure.

Because neither of them had their families, Naruto was lucky that he had Iruka. Iruka provided that big brother figure, the mentor and in some ways a caring environment for Naruto, despite the hardships. Obito, however, did not receive any of this. 

Naruto still lived alone in the state-provided flat with mountains of trash and ate ramen with expired milk, something to this extent. This is not to mention the villagers actively shunning him for being the vessel for Nine-Tails. Obito, meanwhile, is not confirmed to have these hardships in the plot, moreover, as I have explained, a lot of the things you mentioned are assumptions that clash with what is seen in canon. Unless, of course, we are putting Obito's perspective above all, and Rin and the others cheering Kakashi and Gai fighting while ignoring Obito is literally the worst thing ever, but this is straight up offensive to Naruto's experiences.

And also while we are on this topic let's return to Naruto's talk-no-jutsu here, yeah, the same one he had after the plot magically had Naruto learn Obito's memories, specifically the ones pre-Nagato grooming, pre-Konoha destruction, pre-Kushina murder, pre-overtaking Akatsuki, pre-overtaking Kirigakure, pre-Uchiha massacre, pre-Akatsuki jinchuriki hunt, pre-Sasuke grooming, pre-Konan's murder. Which. Wow. How convenient, Kishimoto.

So Naruto here explicitly says that OMG U R JUST LIKE ME FR when it comes to the Hokage dream (that Obito gains upon the masked man reveal as far as the narrative is concerned)... only he is literally pulling this out of his ass, because, again, if Naruto was not introduced to some new memories the readers didn't see, there is nothing suggesting Naruto's claim. This entire thing hinges on readers taking the lobotomy pill and ignoring the giant extended family Obito had + the elderly in the village and not asking for an explanation as to why Obito would feel this extreme loneliness that would require latching onto Rin that strongly. I can agree with "lonely because parents gone", but beyond that this is just Naruto using the power of plot to fix Obito's worldviews.

What Obito did have, was Rin. The two have been childhood friends for a very long time. Rin gave Obito that sense of security and attachment, despite them being the same age.

This is all very lovely and dandy, but you would need to find me a scene showing them being childhood friends. For this post I have reread all chapters starting from 599 and to about 660(?) where I gave up because the conversation between defeated Obito, Kakashi and Minato was causing me to overdose on cringe. And during this entire period the only memory that anyone had of the two of them being children is that Academy arrival scene. THAT'S IT.

Then we have the team Minato introduction scene, but it's obviously after they become genins, so 9 years old. There's also this scene:

But if you check the earlier screenshots, you will actually realize that Rin is wearing the kimono that she has during the chunin exam + she has Konoha's headband, so they are already about 10 years old (at 9 they graduated the Academy, at 11 they became chunins, but Obito didn't pass this particular exam). So the kids you are claiming to be such good childhood friends with Rin being the sole pillar of emotional support for Obito have a giant 5 YEAR LONG GAP, and with Rin only living to 14 THAT IS A LOT OF TIME MISSING.

And in the other scenes Rin is already wearing her chunin get-up, so they are both 11+ years by that point. Meaning that as far as canon shows, Rin was nice to him that one time during the Academy entrance ceremony when they were, like, 4, then we HAVE NOTHING until they become team Minato, and then we have an array of very similar scenes where Obito speaks about how he's gonna become Hokage and Rin looks pretty and nods along (an incredible show of personality, Kishimoto). And then we get to Kannabi where Rin seems as about as upset as Kakashi is, even if Obito, her supposedly best friend, GOT CRUSHED ALIVE and is begging her to get his eye out of his eye socket and shove it into Kakashi's still untreated wound. And Kakashi, as we know, didn't get along really well with Obito until like 15 minutes ago.

But then Rin does the single most psychotic thing imaginable: Obito gets finally crushed, her supposed best friend's body turns into tomato paste that they can't even pick up and will have to leave him behind on the enemy territory, and as Kakashi explains how Obito loved Rin and died for her, the girl opens her MOUTH AND STARTS CONFESSING TO KAKASHI.

DARLING CAN YOU WAIT LITERALLY LIKE 5 MINUTES BEFORE ANNOUNCING THAT? ZETSUS DRAGGING AWAY OBITO'S HALF-DEAD BODY CAN PROBABLY HEAR YOU THROUGH THE ROCKS. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK, HE JUST DIED!

And, I understand, in Kishimoto's mind this is all probably very romantic and tragic, but to me this is just another example of Rin's character flipfloping between the cutesy innocent girl in team Minato and the single biggest psychopath known to Konoha in her generation and this is only because Obito's turn to dark side happened outside of Konoha.

So, in total: one interaction as children, numerous interactions in team Minato, but it's literally the same one with them doing the same things, and then the Kannabi bridge. I am sorry, but this is one of the worst executions of childhood friends I have ever seen, if they are supposed to be that way. And on THIS + Rin's flipfloping character that gains and loses cutesy girl characteristics depending on Kishimoto's mood is on what Obito's entire fucking arc hinges. Obito who would be by far the most prolific war criminal in the last 20 or so years of shinobi history😁

One final thing before moving on: it's actually the pictures that you mention later in your post

I don't really care if Obito is here trying to kiss a picture, he's a young boy, he does silly things. What I wanna point out is the pictures that Obito has, because to me they are VERY telling.

Kishimoto shows us 0 photos of Rin and Obito together, you know, the supposed childhood friends. The picture that he is trying to kiss is the one that they took as team Minato at 9 years old. He has a picture of his parents (thank god for Obito's mama cuz dad is giving 0 pretty genes lol), and then he has a bunch of Rin pictures, but the angle on them all is just off, like he is sneaking photos of her from far away, or when she doesn't expect that, or as if he is sitting in the bushes. All of them indicate very little closeness, like they haven't been, you know, childhood friends for years and did things together. Kishimoto gives them practically no mementos that would indicate that degree of closeness that the whole "RIN WAS MY SOLE LIGHT" thing is trying to convey, but god does he not save up on the scenes of Rin putting bandages on Obito.

Obito’s love for Rin transcended romance. Of course the romance was the overt part, but his love for her was his sense of security. She was his safe space. When a child grows up without love or care from a parenting figure or a mentor, they will find ways to cope and latch onto the closest thing they can find safety and comfort in. Rin took on this role. So when Rin was killed before him, naturally there would be a sense of deep despair and anger.

I will not be adressing the first half of this, because I believe I have made it very clear that Obito's attachement issues are very overblown with what is given within canon (unless, of course, we go into the whole Uchiha love/hate/curse bullshit, but to me it's Kishimoto's favorite crutch to fall on whenever the plot demands to know why the fuck is everyone tolerating Uchiha #13 yapping and doesn't call them out on their bullshit) and his friendship with Rin is shown very weakly, to the point I would say most of it is left to readers' imagination. That's wonderful that you found a ship that has this sort of transcended love vibe, but what I see is two characters literally strung together by the author for no other reason because mangaka needs that drama, one of these characters barely qualifies for a character and is moreso a plot device, while the other one COMMITS SO many crimes the whole "she was my light" bitching and moaning can go into the trash pile along with the man saying these things, because hundreds of thousands are dead for the delusions of this one guy.

What I do wanna talk about is Rin's death, because GOD this shit drives me mad for numerous reasons.

Firstly, let's insert Kakashi into the conversation, because Kishimoto twists himself into a pretzel just to somehow both justify Obito's turn to the dark side and Kakashi not being an utter piece of shit that kills his friends for the mission (because Kakashi is a fan favorite I guess and making him fully responsible for that murder is a step too far). This pretzel is so lovely that it actually creates TWO versions of events in Obito as a witness and Kishimoto... does absolutely nothing with the change in Obito's perspective. Which is absolute insanity.

So, we turn off our omnipotence as readers, and sit inside Obito's mind as he sets off for Kakashi and Rin surrounded by Kirigakure shinobi in 603 (this is the only information he has). The Zetsus later mention some experiment of Kiri, Minato being on a different mission, etc, etc. Obito doesn't understand the full context, cuz he's running for his life, and at that point he does witness Rin's last moments through Kakashi's eye

(chapter 604)

Huh, what an interesting expression Kishimoto chooses. Something in between betrayal, confusion and fear. Well, it wiil certainly correspond to what is actually going on, right? Right?

So Obito finally runs into the clearing and sees

Rin, standing still, looking scared and betrayed, while Kakashi pierces her heart, crying.

And so, Kishimoto in chapter 604 creates a pretty clear narrative: Kakashi and Rin were surrounded on a mission with Minato away, and, instead of protecting Rin like he promised Obito, Kakashi chose to put the mission above his teammate and killed Rin.

By chapter 605 Obito is already commiting the massacre of Kiri ninjas, who scream something about the importance of Rin's corpse, but ultimately no further context is given, so nothing much changes in Obito had witnessed on that day.

Wow, what a terrible thing to happen! Of course Obito would break and realize how terrible the system and by extention the world is, with Rin being killed for... oh wait, there's more?

And almost 25 FUCKING CHAPTER LATER we suddenly discover THAT THIS IS NOT AT ALL WHAT HAPPENED. And is it Kakashi who tells us his side of story? NO, OF FUCKING COURSE NOT, IT'S OBITO WHO DOES THIS. OBITO WHO'S ENTIRE FUCKING CHARACTER HINGES ON THIS ONE SCENE.

Rin did WHAT and was WHAT?

(I will not go into detail how Isobu being sealed in Rin COMPLETELY fucks over Blood Mist's timeline, that's a whole other separate rant)

So, A MASSIVE CHANGE OF PERSPECTIVE FOR OBITO: Rin chose this fate, Kakashi was doing everything in his power to prevent this, Rin somehow managed to gain enough speed and agility to overcome Kakashi's reflexes and THE FUCKING SHARINGAN to throw herself onto Kakashi's arm (yes, the very same girl who got abducted TWICE. I did mention her abilities flipflop depending on Kishimoto's mood), and Rin's death had a very certain meaning - to protect Konoha from being destroyed by a Tailed Beast.

(I also really love how Rin in 629 absolutely can not end up in the same pose she did in 604, thank you Kishimoto for your cheap manipulations)

So... this is a massive thing to happen. So how does Obito react to this upon learning? When does he learn this? How does this happen?

LOL. LMAO. FUCK YOU READER. (c) Kishimoto

Because it's just randomly shoved into the plot and ignored for the rest of the series, regardless of how it completely flips the relationships between team Minato, particularly with Kakashi no longer being an unfeeling traitor but rather someone who ended up in utterly terrible circumstances that he could not prevent and Rin... continuing her psychotic streak of "oh, Obito died? better confess Kakashi right above his still warm body" with "huh, I can't end myself, and I pose a danger to the village... well, I will certainly not entertain the possibility of finding my sensei's wife who knows all the most powerful sealing jutsu to keep the thing inside me in control, so suicide it is, and of course I won't go for any of the armed Kiri guys following us, I will do it using Kakashi, the boy I love. I am sure he will enjoy the image of me bleeding out on his arm for the rest of his life, especially with that promise that he gave to Obito". Another important thing that we learn that Rin REALLY loved her village, to the point of being ready to die for it.

And I will say what I think about this - you can not try to push the "cute innocent baby girl" narrative with SUCH a heavy decision done. This requires a lot a mental fortitude of someone much older and competent than the pure innocent light that Kishimoto tries to later portray her as.

But coming to the second point I wished to discuss and it is how Obito's entire interaction with the whole shinobi system completely crumbles with the change in these events, because the first version does show how messed up it is - Kakashi choosing the mission over a comrade, Rin's life being just a simple burden to the system, etc etc. But the second version of events OFFERS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in regards to Obito's understanding of how wrong the system they are living is (contrary to LITERALLY any other antagonist in the series). Because Rin's death in the second version is a terrorist attack that Rin herself decides to prevent. You can have the most wonderful and humane system imaginable, with free healthcare, children being allowed to be children until growing into adutls, elections etc etc, and it would still not guarantee that people with nasty intentions from using power to inflict pain on innocents. And anybody could have ended up in Rin's place, if we are under assumption that Kiri simply wants to demolish Konoha with Isobu. The worst that could be extracted from this version of events is that Kakashi and Rin had to end up in this situation at all without adult supervision (which is moreso to Kakashi's part, because Rin in this scenario is just a bystander who got abducted to be used as a living bomb, and anyone from a cat to a granny could have been in her place), and Rin at 14 being able to make the decision to end her life for the sake of the village, but again this is also motivated by the actual danger she presents to the people around her.

All of the above is probably a good explanation as for why throught the entirety of 599 to 660s Obito can not formulate A SINGULAR good argument for the Eye of the Moon that would show the horror of the shinobi system except for "PEOPLE DIE - SAD", "PEOPLE BETRAY ALWAYS - ANGRY" and last but not least "YOU WILL BE JUST LIKE ME, GIVE ME A SECOND TO MURDER ANOTHER DOZEN OF YOUR COMRADES". I shit you not, the guy who was the one behind Blood Mist, witnessed the fate of Amegakure, was part of the Uchiha massacre, collected and personally knew members of Akatsuki, had been this amazing strategist and manipulator for the last 16 years CAN NOT say anything that wouldn't be about him being mad about Rin dying and how everyone's gonna be just like him fr.

The closest he ever gets to this is soon after Neji's death, remembering this wonderful thing called the cursed seal that the main branch of Hyuga would place on its cadet branch members regardless of their age whenever the current heir of the clan would turn 3, and this seal can also be used to inflict pain on the bearers by the people of the main branch. So essentially Konoha has a literal enslaving practices. Wonderful job, Hashirama. Well, what will our Savior and awesome guy will tell us about this practice?

Ah, he completely missed the point of why enslaving your relatives is bad. AND he is using it as a shitty Twitter-level gotcha that would sound like "LITERALLY 1984!!!1!" without ever bothering to read the book. God canon Obito you're such a loser.

Which is why I really can just barely chuckle whenever I remember that as the apocalypse is unfolding, hundreds of thousands are dead, and Obito gives up on the plan of his life after Naruto talks-no-jutsus him twice, Madara dunks on this entire comedy opera and reveals that HEY IT WAS ACTUALLY ME BEHIND RIN'S DEATH! and most of Obito's post reveal yapping goes completely null because it wasn't the system's evil (the faults of which he is never shown to understand), it wasn't this world's evil, it was Madara's evil that killed Rin😁

And that's overall a good commentary on the final state of the affairs in Fourth Shinobi World War - the majority of people aren't suffering because the system, the majority of people are dying because there's two Uchiha assholes with their convoluted bullshit that are killing people en-masse for their delusions, one of which was dead for the last 16 years, so yeah, Obito ain't running away from the things he commited with "boo hoo Rin was my sole light" which is immediatelly followed by this

WHICH IS THE ONLY ACKNOWLEDGEMENT HE GIVES OF 16 YEARS THAT INVOLVED DEMOLISHING KONOHA THAT KILLED HUNDREDS, THE ENTIRE AKATSUKI THING THAT ENDED UP WITH ALL MEMBERS DEAD AND LIKELY THOUSANDS OF SHINOBI AND CIVILIANS MURDERED WHILE THE ORGANIZATION WAS ACTIVE, THE BLOOD FUCKING MIST THAT HAD KIDDIE MURDER EXAMS, DEATH SQUADS AND EVEN MASSACRES OF WIELDERS OF KEKKAI GENKAI, THE MASS MURDER OF HIS OWN CLAN, AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST THIS ENTIRE FUCKING WORLD WAR WHERE HALF OF THE ALLIANCE IS ALREADY DEAD, SO WE ARE SPEAKING ABOUT 50K CASUALTIES AT LEAST

buuuuuuuuut Riiiiiiiiiin waaaaaaas myyyyyyyy soleeeeeee liiiiight😭😭😭

(also I suppose this is how Kishimoto deals with the whole "so hey at what point does Obito actually see the problems of shinobi system" thing, which is. hilarious. a tiny panel with a moon on the background.)

Okay, rambling over, let's return to the original post

A lot of people would say: “but he had Minato,” “he had Kakashi,” “he had Kushina.”

I find it a bit weird that you chose to exclude Obito's grandmother for being a filler and an anime-original character, but included Kushina here, because I do not remember a single instance of her interacting with Team Minato that happened in the manga and not in anime/video games

but they only came into his life for a short period of time. Their interactions were not on an intense level as it was with he and Rin.

Minato was in Obito's life for 4 years as we previously established, which is a pretty big thing for Obito's total 14 year old lifespan. And I am still not sure of what interactions that Rin and Obito shared that weren't "she held his hand, put a bandage over his cut and said with a serious tone that he shouldn't hide his wounds". Like, it would have been funny and cute if we were talking about 13 year old Obito, but with corpses pilied up, half of the world destroyed and 30 year old Obito? Please give me something better than a placeholder cutscene, I am begging you.

And again, very little indication of their interactions outside of team Minato, so question mark to the whole "long period of time"

Naruto however, had Iruka, who most likely taught him a lot of things about the importance of the village, the importance of camaraderie, friendship

But... Naruto is learning it over the time we witness him in the plot. And it happens while we watch him at 12. So I am not sure where the "Iruka taught him" argument is coming from.

And Obito was certainly aware of the importantce of the village considering HOW MUCH dialogue is spent on him declaring how he is gonna become a Hokage. If he missed that point while having that dream, I can't even say anything. Also, Obito from 8 to 13 was in a militaristic settlement that was in the middle of a World War, I'm pretty sure their education wasn focusing on working up that patriotism in the kids that would soon go to the trenches.

Naruto had his fair share of trauma but he had support that allowed for some resiliency.

Gosh golly I wonder who was responsible for all that trau-- I am sorry, I will stop, you get the point.

And also, no. Kakashi was in his depression arc and didn't interact with Naruto until becoming his sensei, Jiraya was out there somewhere shitfaced and probably collecting intelligence for Konoha, Hiruzen was just creepily watching him through his magic ball without Naruto's knowledge, and with Iruka it's unclear at what point did he start feeding Naruto and chatting with him outside of classroom, and even if that started as soon as supposedly Rin and Obito became friends, Naruto still was being shunned by the majority of village and starts having proper friends only during the plot, so 12 years old and onwards.

(and, again, there is no reason for Obito to be left stranded by the rest of the society, nothing written by Kishimoto ever indicates this)

Psychological intermeshment stems from traumatic upbringing in childhood (lack of nurturance from an adult caregiver, abandonment etc), and then again from losing their sense of security/safety (Rin in this case).

I like your point, and it is kind of something of a new thing to me, but again, the entire scenario of Obito's abandonment and latching onto Rin is hinging on the reader making the decision to remove that part of brain that considers these characters somewhere other than the vacuum. It is plain and simple bad writing. I really wish I could agree with your point, but it would mean ignoring almost everything that Kishimoto showed (and I am sure that he was desperate to tell us something along your lines, but he utterly failed in that regard).

So he did what he could to get that sense of security back, even if what he did was questionable.

EXCUSE ME? QUESTIONABLE? QUESTIONABLE???

Several months after Rin's death, Obito kills hundreds in his own village for no apparent reason because the action brings his plan no benefit. Does that mean getting back the security? Obito also kills the mother of his own classmate, never showing regret for it, before proceeding to put a kunai against a newborns throat and booby trapping him. Was he getting back the security this way? Obito also manipulates the leaders of original Akatsuki into doing his bidding and when the plan doesn't work, gosh golly one of them dies in an internal strife, which seems just so terribly convenient for him. Is being a manipulative and lying bastard part of his security blanket? He then also proceeds to put the Fourth Mizukage under his genjutsu and what followed was one the most brutal regimes shinobi world ever knew. Did he felt safe and happy becoming the reason for an entire village's and likely country's suffering? Said regime also included mandatory battles between children of Academy age, so 8-10 years old, and death squads that would kill anyone attempting to desert said regime, and the only profit that Obito got for his plan from this entire affair was Kisame joining Akatsuki. Well, surely, that seems like a mildly questionable thing to get his sense of security back, hm?

I am not even gonna bothering continuing, but I can make this paragraph twice as large without much trouble. Obito was not simply doing questionable things, he was an absolute genocidal maniac, and very much had a tendency for opportunistic murder, and a lot of the things he did have no explained or apparent reason.

Then you have the complexity of the curse of hatred that intertwines the storyline, which make things even more complicated. But this curse was what pushed the storyline and placed Obito as an antagonist.

As I have already stated, a cheap copout from Kishimoto to not bother himself with writing anything more complicated than a story for first graders

He did not start a war because of a girl. He started a war because he was angry with the way the world functioned. How the countless wars kept ending lives and taking loved ones away from people. He did not want people to go through what he went through.

LMAO. So, obviously, yes, the favorite argument provided with Kishimoto's own heavy-handed writing: "I did not start a war over a girl. I will only mention her fifty times. And think of only her whevener something major will happen to me. Fuck those people that I met over the last 16 years and who ended up dead because of my actions or my plan. They don't matter, only the people I spoke with when I was 13 do. And I will not be able to provide anything of substance whenever an opportunity to talk about the faults of the system will arise. Just general throwing hands in the air and dramatic mumbling about despair."

And rereading the manga, it is actually apparent that he can't produce anything about the shinobi system (because Kishimoto never ended up giving him a moment to understand this, duh), so he consistenly attacks the world for things like people dying in general, which, if you ask me, is the point where any and all discussion with Obito should have ended, because he is clearly absolutely delusional and, similarly to the war that HE started, it is a conflict between the humanity as it is surviving or this guy's delusions entrapping everyone.

How the countless wars kept ending lives and taking loved ones away from people. He did not want people to go through what he went through.

Damn, nothing says "I hate wars" like creating and controlling an international terrorist organization that specializes on taking the war business and spends YEARS doing random side-quests for money when your own plan has zero need for money, so you pretty much allow these bloodthirsty assholes to run amock. Nothing says "I hate wars" like sending said assholes into highly-populated areas to catch the jinchuriki when you are shown repeatedly to have the abilities to do so quickly and effiently, but nope, let's nuke Sunagakure, because "I hate wars". "I do not want people to go through what I went through", so I am going to have 8 year old children battle each other to death in the village where I took control, and if anyone tries to run away from that, I will have a death squad ready. Wow, I was so lonely as I child, but don't worry, little Uchiha, I am going to stab you and your family tonight, because I do not want you to go through what I went through. Oh, Sasuke-kun, hope you enjoy your new spacious home!

In essence, this mindset has villain written all over it, but it also compels a strong backstory for Obito because of his complex childhood upbringing and the trauma he experienced.

Trauma? Yes. Complex childhood upbringing? Maybe in some fanfiction, the canon is lackluster and has all the complexity of a third grader's math problem.

But people need to remember that he had a father who provided that nurturing environment for him. Even if his father died in tragic circumstances, Kakashi, though traumatised, was able to bounce back and push forward with the support of his friends and village.

These are not simply tragic circumstances, that's an 8 year old walking into his home and finding his father after he commited suicide. Your point about adult figures is a bit more appropriate this time with Kakashi, in my opinion, because Sakumo would kill himself when Kakashi was 8, and team Minato wouldn't become a team until Obito's and Rin's graduation when they were 9, so Kakashi ended up kind of being passed down from Sakumo and Minato. It still doesn't mean that it somehow alleviated Kakashi's condition, because we still see him holding onto these rigorous anti-Sakumo ideals during Kannabi bridge, all of which culminated in Obito's "death", so I am not exactly sure at what point the "bounce back" happens, because things get only worse for him with Rin and Minato getting killed. I don't even think Kishimoto actually shows us Kakashi getting back to it, all of it is coming from external sources that aren't written by Kishimoto? Kakashi just kinda loses everything and then we see him still staying alive and not following the allure of his dad's path. Kakashi has a lot of generic talk about friendship and comraderie, but I can't remember what exactly brought him back from losing everything that was related to his team? So he's a weird example to compare Obito against.

It all comes back to childhood upbringing and the presence of an adult caregiver/mentor.

And in example with Kakashi the adult mentor is also killed the second time and Kakashi loses everything. Again being saved by off-screen camraderie and power of friendship, and also general desire to continue spreading Obito's ideals. So, still a weird example.

That, and then again, the presence of the curse of hatred (which was why Sasuke was pretty fucked up despite coming from a loving family). 

Curse of hatred is lazy bullshit and Sasuke was not fucking fine because one wonderful evening he stumbled upon his entire family massacred, then got tortured by his beloved brother after witnessing him kill their parents, and then he had to alive alone in the very same compound where his entire family was killed, and then his brother returned and tortured him again, now sending him into a coma. That's just some of the few things that come to mind when it comes to Sasuke being fucked up.

This is the reason why I do not ship Obito x Kakashi. To me there was no love, care and nurturing between those two. Obito “died” not long after being friendly with Kakashi, so that wouldn’t warrant a ship between those two. Whereas with Rin, it is a different story.

I don't particularly enjoy Obikaka either, but I can understand why people would ship it (unlike canon Obirin canon Obikaka at least has two characters interacting), however again this comes from a lot of stretching of canon to the limit. You have correctly stated that there was no proper friendship shared between the two of them (which I see Obikaka shippers debating), Kakashi is practically bullying him during Kannabi bridge mission, and when they finally did see eye to eye (BADUMS) it was like 5 minutes before Kakko dropped the cave on their heads. But what is fascinating between the two is what they symbolize to each other (and no, regardless of what Kishimoto is peddaling, I don't believe in any deep friendship and understanding between them during Fourth Shinobi World War, they are grown ass men who have lived with their plans and ideals for far too long + they haven't spoken to each other in 17 years), because Kakashi changes his entire life to accomodate Obito's habits (being later and such), Kakashi, in a sense, attempts to live out the life that Obito never got to live. And Obito... well, Obito's writing all over the place, so really this guy's interpretation is in the eye of the beholder and how much they are willing to ignore canon.

And like I said, just because of all this crap Obito’s been through, it does not excuse what he did or make what he did right (he was a villain after all).

One, it literally doesn't provide him with enough motivation for half of the deaths he had caused. Two, yes, the plot absolutely excuses him in the most ridiculous of ways, because poow baby boi upset that Rin dead. Don't mind poow baby boi using about a 100 opportunities to kill people when it went against his supposed morals and there was absolutely no profit to be made for Eye of the Moon, Naruto saw 30 year old poow baby boi being sad and dreaming of becoming Hokage when he was 10, he certainly deserves redemption arc.

And thank you for reminding that that post-Obito death scene exists, my night is absolutely ruined because now I remembered this "How to never write a female character" scene, with Rin finally rejecting her premise as a character and embracing her role as a plot function, and in this scene she fulfills a role that all male character dream of - a consolation prize for Obito who sent countless people to their deaths, brought about the apocalypse and got around to fixing it about two seconds away from midnight on the doomsday clock. But hey, at least he tried his best doing all of that!

now onto @makimahinalno points

What these two had was very unique and rare, and I cannot explain how much it irks me when people degrade and simplify it as "obsessive" when it isn't.

The uniqueness and rarity of these two stems from the fact of how absolutely half-baked their relationship is, how Rin's charactertics and worldview (which we don't get at all until that flashback when they are chunins and Rin says flat out that she wants the war to stop, which I guess indicates something common between the two, but also shows her not being a particular death enjoyer?) keep changing whenever Kishimoto needs them to ("I watched everything and you did your best" says she to a guy who demolished a village that she died to protect. Actually, two times, if we include the Pain attack. Oh, and the boy she loved aka Kakashi also got killed during that attack) and how Obito's 16 years of life post Rin's death had so much opportunistic murder that can not be excused or even motivated by any of his endless meanderings about hopelessness and such. I am sure that Kishimoto intended for this to be some sort of higher form of love, but with what he ended up writing Obito being responsible for, Kishimoto's own inability to properly handle the horrific nature of Obito's acts and, frankly, Rin's character remaining somewhere at placeholder female character level, every single time he mentions or has a flashback to her (and that happens A LOT) that really makes one realizes that either the character or the managaka are completely insane. But probably both. Which is where "obsessive" comes from, because Obito conveniently does not acquire any other significant relationships for half of his life, leaving him sounding like a broken record about Rin.

When Obito remembers Rin, when we see her face, we are supposed to think about innocence itself.

That's awesome, but making an executive decision to kill yourself using your crush's fist to prevent the village from being sent into past tense is not innocence. Being capable of taking out a dying boy's eye and transplanting into a wound of another boy while standing in the middle of some half-destroyed cave with no tools specifically prepared for that and neither of the boys dying is not innocence. If Kishimoto wished her character to be about innocence, he should have not made her an experienced shinobi (at times, of course whenever he needs her Rin becomes as incompenent as a child).

She is the symbol of it, she represents all kids in the world who deserve to play on a playground, be well fed and not have to worry whether they are going to survive to see the next morning or not.

Damn, and Obito really internalizes those ideals, doesn't he? Or does he become the head of regime that had exams for Academy students that required them to kill each other? The exam that got cancelled because little Zabuza has found a cheat code and killed a 100 children of that graduation class? The regime that had a specialized ANBU department that was solely responsible for people escaping this regime, likely including the very children that didn't want to kill their fellow little friends and not worry if the are going to see the next morning? The regime that had massacres of people possessing Kekkei Genkai that it did nothing about? And after Obito was done with that regime, surely Akatsuki did not recruit a 13 year old and a 12 year old almost consequitevely? He surely gave them warm homes, carefree education and uneventful lives? He surely did not pair them with fellow mentally ill nukenins and send them to complete missions for his terroristic band, with their faces plastered in all bingo books with a handsome reward next to them?

Again, I would love to believe into this idea of "innocence" that Obito so cherished and Rin seemed to possess, but unfortunately the only thing I get is three same scenes of Rin and Obito doing the same thing again and again + Obito's vague and meaningless meandering + none of Obito's actual messed-up shit being ever adressed in favor of the things above. I am sure Kishimoto oh so wanted this deep transcendent love and innocence incarnate, but you can't get rid of 600 chapters worth of questions by replacing all answers with "SHE WAS HIS SOLE LIGHT😭😭😭😭😭😭😭" Kishimoto created a character far too heavy that he could and wanted to manage, so Obito falls flat with Rin as the anchor that drowns him in his own lore.

I... won't be adressing the rest of your post🤣🤣🤣🤣you should write poetry, I love your flowery descriptions. I think I've made my case clear about how this particular interpretation of Obirin requires one to use their imagination instead of relying on canon material and preferably forgetting about the other big chunk

Anyway, that's about it. Thanks if you managed to read to this point, I am honestly surprised and congratulate you. I have been wanting to make a big post containing most of my issues with Obito's writing in canon, and these posts made me stay up throught two nights as I was rereading manga and writing this post itself.

And remember, kids, ship whoever your want, tag your stuff appropriately, and don't try to get into the depths of Naruto canon, or you'll end up in this wormhole just like I did. With Kishimoto at the helm, nobody is a winner.

Sending cheers to the authors of original posts!

(and yes if you are wondering why I stopped attaching pictures to the post past a certain point - I hit the limit on them and was far too lazy to separate them into several posts. I might make a separate post with other screenshots of the manga that I have where Kishimoto reaches absolutely insane levels of reader gaslighting, I was honestly torn apart by my desire to fall asleep while rereading this part of the manga and giggling like insane because some of the shit characters say is absolutelt comical in its absurdity. God I really have a love-hate relationship with Naruto's last 100 chapters, don't I. Anyway, I gotta crash, I have an exam in two days and I did not sleep for two days.)

[hopefull-mindset]

A Much Needed Overview

I’ve been brought to a point of feeling the need to discuss the abuse depicted in Bungou Stray Dogs. This isn’t the brightest topic to speak about and I understand why people are reluctant to speak in detail about something as serious as this. It’s not easy, so I’ll be the brave face today because I feel disappointed about the lack of deep discussion beyond the popular topic of “The Abuse Cycle”.

I’m happy that it’s at least brought up amongst everyone as something that exists, I’m happy that people feel as though it’s something to talk about, but I don’t think most understand how to act about it. It’s never as cut and dry as how it’s depicted in most other pieces of media or how people speak about it in general. That is why I am thankful for its depiction here. Not saying that nobody speaks about it with clarity, but it’s not the majority, unfortunately.

I especially felt this was a good time to address this because of the reaction towards Asagiri’s thoughts on Dazai and Akutagawa’s relationship in the recent magazine interview. The outrage is not from nowhere, I was also taken aback at first, but to claim Asagiri “doesn’t even know his own story” is incredibly self-entitled considering the story isn’t done, nor are you the one writing this. If you read the story, no way is Asagiri justifying anything that happened. Please look at the question that is being asked, does it say “Do you think what Dazai did is morally right?” Of course, it isn’t.

Not to be rude but before you start questioning the writer himself if he’s read his own story, have you read it? Please keep in mind the fact this is only a magazine interview and doesn't reflect every nuance. Asagiri doesn't need to go “Oh yeah, this thing that’s bad is bad” every two seconds to explain himself. Asagiri’s writing decisions can be questionable and cannot be uncritiqued, but I’m going to have to defend him on this account.

I’m not sure if any warnings are needed concerning the subject matter considering most BSD fans know what I’m about to go over, but to be clear, please only read this when you’re in a well enough headspace for heavy matters such as this. I am not going to be talking lightly in any of this or dance around what’s happened between any of the characters, abuse is harder to talk about compared to other acts of violence that are objectively worse because it’s a more personal act that too many can find themselves in.

Finally, I do not want to speak about my own experiences online because I’ve only come to terms recently with it and they do not reflect everyone’s response to depictions of abuse in all media. Some things are very uncomfortable to admit about me that I haven’t told anyone, that no one would be able to take well even if they were my closest friend. This isn’t about me at all and there is no point in saying more about my reality, but I think my perspective might help people enlighten themselves on how truly complicated situations like this are.

What is Abuse?

Surprise, we need to go over this before any discussion about BSD happens because a lot misunderstand what abuse is. It's disheartening that the term has been so simplified that nobody knows what it means anymore. Don't substitute words for abuse or use abuse as a substitute for other terms. Abuse as a concept is quite hard to pin down with words and there are many ways to describe it, but by definition in the context that it’s directed to another person, abuse is:

To target and mistreat someone, causing them harm or distress in a repetitive manner

This by itself does not describe the grand scope of everything and probably might make you more confused, but it’s a great place to start and does describe what is directed to the victim. Many sources will use varied wording, but it’s the general knowledge that someone is being hurt to a fundamental level that makes it abuse.

Does the abuser need to intentionally hurt someone for it to be abused? Yes, but not in the way you think. Most abusers are not hurting their victims for the sake of just hurting them, that’s illogical, they’re doing it for something. Some examples include either for themselves in some way or what they think is for their victim’s “own benefit”. Even worse is when they genuinely believe it because they’ve also grown up in an environment that has that same mentality and reflects on themselves.

So yes, it’s intentional in that they’re doing it for a purpose. No matter their intention though, “selfless” or not, it’s still a selfish act in itself that they think that imposing their own will through harmful methods is what the victim needs. The abuse doesn’t need to be physically harming another for it to be abuse. As long as it’s harming you emotionally or otherwise and making you raise flags in your head, it’s abuse.

It sounds strange, but I'm saying it’s intentional because you’re still an intended target of their abuse whether they realize it themself or not. Abuse needs to repeat a form of distress in you to be abuse. For example, does one instance of physical violence against you count as abuse when it never happens again? Well, you need to think about the context. Usually, this would just be assault and that’s it, but is it left hanging in the air to happen again when you interact with them? Do you feel afraid for your well-being, even though it doesn’t happen again?

That’s still abuse, the psychological kind. Typically when abusers resort to physical means, it’s gonna happen again eventually. In this hypothetical instance, however, the point is that repeated distress does not mean repeated actions. It does not need to happen the same way for you to feel unsafe, it just needs to have power over you. Manipulation does not always equal abuse either. It’s a tactic used by abusers, but unless paired up with other actions, it doesn’t fit the criteria of abuse. Context matters when you examine what abuse is.

Here comes the tricky parts that are acknowledged less: When the abuser is someone you’ve relied on in your childhood, in a detrimental part of your life, or someone you care about that you put importance in, and it makes it hard to fully hate that person. What the abuser has done to the victim does not entirely reflect them as people, even if it’s still an important part of them that needs to be addressed.

Abusive people are not only defined by their awful actions, they’re not pure monsters like most love to pretend they are. It’s just easier to think that because accepting that they’re just a multifaceted human being hurts too much when you’re on the receiving end of their worse behavior. But what happens when you’re on the receiving end of both? You try to justify it the way the abuser is because you can’t accept that what’s happening is bad and not something everyone goes through. After all, they treat you decent enough sometimes.

Something so many people need to get into their heads already is that abusers can be victims and vice versa, but just because your abuser went through something themselves or is important to you, doesn’t mean you have to forgive them. Abuse is not forgivable just like that, you can rebuild a relationship beyond that if you’re able to, It’s not a “forgive-and-forget” thing.

Not everyone experiences and responds to abuse the same way, some hate their abusers fully, some can’t bring themselves to, and some don’t even know what to think, but there are so many who don’t feel one way that regarding all abusers as heartless monsters completely invalidates so many stories and their difficult experiences. I have a huge grudge against people like this who restrict abusive situations to just looking like one thing, this is why so many don’t even know that their situations are abusive.

Portrait of a Father

Chapter 39 reflects my points the most, and at the same time, it also turns out to be one of the most controversial chapters. It surprised me that it is, but maybe I shouldn’t be considering how most people on the internet act about abuse. It’s a lovely chapter to me personally and one of my favorites.

If you need a refresher, this is the chapter the Orphanage Director died in and leaves Atsushi in an emotional frenzy about what to think and believe. I know that the underlying message of this chapter is confusing to some, but it hit me in the face point blank on how this is about facing your abuser’s death without any personal conclusion with them.

Being sent on an investigation, Atsushi, after finding out the body was the Director, is stunned and scared because he knows nothing of the director other than his cruelty. He immediately assumes the worst and that he was coming after him again. Atsushi’s thoughts against him are entirely… on purpose in the director’s intentions because we find out that he has gone through so much violence and loss himself that he’s projecting his own will onto Atsushi and making sure he’d “survive in the real world”. So he became his first figure of hate and violence earlier in his life so he’d be “prepared for what comes next”.

I know so many take the backstory for the director as a way to justify what he did to Atsushi in the narrative, but it was just to put into context why he was so cruel. Abusers are never cruel for no reason, that never makes it right, but it’s reality. Atsushi was not the only one in the orphanage who was treated badly, he was singled out by the director most likely for an ability he couldn't control because the headmaster knew he’d get the most trouble for it, and unfortunately… he was right.

Akutagawa being his informant in this chapter makes perfect sense. He can see that what the director was for Atsushi is what Dazai is for him. No matter how terrible their actions were, it’s what kept them alive for so long. It’s not pleasant to confront, is it? Atsushi agrees because when he gets the information that the Director was going to congratulate him with the flowers he was going to buy by selling the gun he had on him, he freaks out. No way the guy he was raised so long to hate, the guy who put him through so much suffering, was going to congratulate him.

I know to some, Dazai’s talk with Atsushi sounded like he was justifying what happened because “it made him a good person in the end”, but that’s not what’s being said. This conclusion I’ve seen some people come to about this conversation confuses me. Dazai is just saying the obvious, you guys get all shocked and it weirds me out how easily it’s been glossed over that the reason Atsushi is so self-sacrificial and trying to do the good thing is because of the director. The reason he puts himself so much on the front lines is because he needs that worth in being good to live and prove the director wrong, he was raised to see that type of person is the most ideal person to live in this world.

After everything that’s been dumped onto him in such a short time, so much inner conflict of what to think of a dead man he no longer can have any personal closure with, he asks Dazai what face he should make, what he should think at this moment. Dazai tells him that they’re his emotions and he can think however he’d like, but commonly someone cries when their father dies. So he cries, because ultimately no matter his treatment, no matter the intent and its effects, it’s still the man who raised him. It’s flawed, but that’s what a father is stripped bare at its core definition and that won’t change no matter your feelings.

Now that I’m done summarizing this chapter and making sure you guys understood the point and how it spells out their relationship, I can finally talk freely about what was happening between them. When it comes to familial abuse, generational trauma is so prevalent it’s hard not to talk about. The director is quite reflective of so many parents who were raised to grow up too early in harsh environments, that they think they need to prepare their children for it too, even though it’s no longer needed.

You don’t need to like someone for them to be important to you, especially if it’s a parent in your life or someone close to that. That’s why Atsushi cries. He cries for the director, he cries for himself, he cries that it’s finally over, he cries for the kindness he could’ve gotten even if it wouldn’t have fixed anything, he cries for the father that never was, he cries because his father is dead. It’s perfectly normal to keep someone close in your heart that wasn’t perfect and to grieve their death.

Was the director successful in what he was aiming for? I want to say no, but he did. He succeeded in making Atsushi think of others in a good light and do good for them, making Atsushi resent him, and giving him the ability to keep going. Hell raised him right, but it was still hell. The problem is that his teachings were based on degrading Atsushi into being nothing but a life he should put aside in favor of others. Even if he continued hating the director like he wanted, he would still degrade himself for being a coward who didn’t hold himself to those standards. The result is not perfect because the director is not perfect, but in his position, this is a success.

The director for a while was his shadow of negative encouragement when he joined the agency, what kept him going in those moments, because he was what defined good, bad, and justice for him in his entire childhood. Even if he was dead, he’d still linger in his mind. I can’t parse out what to think about these hallucinations forming Akutagawa and Dazai to guide him later on, all it tells me is that he still can’t rely on or trust himself and he needs more development in his self-image issues.

I see why fans are confused, hell raising us right is a bizarre thing to say to a victim, so let me show you a perspective you're not seeing. Let's imagine you have an abusive mother who only wants you to be prepared for the things you're undoubtedly going to experience because of what you can't control. What she did does help you, but all that goes through your head is “Why couldn't she have done it differently without my own suffering?” The only thoughts that come rushing back when you think of those memories are the unnecessary pains. It takes a lot for a victim to acknowledge this on their own, they want to push back at the past so they don't have to see this plain reality.

Like anyone else that I’m going to bring up in this post, just because the abuse made them who they are or affected who they became, even when it keeps us going through life and benefits us in some way, does not make the abuse justified. Abuse is still abuse, I addressed this already and I hope not to address this again. I needed to detail an explanation because it’s quite easy to hate a man you know nothing about and has been painted in nothing but a bad light. The anger against the director is undebatable because abuse is not debatable, but to pretend the cruelty was nothing but for cruelty’s sake is mischaracterizing both him and Atsushi.

You can’t pick and choose what’s been told to you in the text just because you don’t like a character and lack the maturity for it. It gets quite hard to do that sort of thing when it’s a character you‘ve grown to care about, it’s no wonder Dazai is divided between so many. Speaking of Dazai, his involvement in this makes as much sense as Akutagawa’s. He’s currently in a mentor position for Atsushi, no matter what Akutagawa says, and shows interest in his development. So of course he’s going to purposely stick his head into something that would affect Atsushi greatly. Both Akutagawa and Dazai are viewing this through their lenses as people who grew up in the darkness of society, and it’s not that Dazai thinks what happened to him wasn’t terrible, you should have eyes to read the panels provided, but he’s generally unfazed and able to sound neutral because he’s used to that cruelty.

The Port Mafia’s Environment

(Aka: is it really “all Mori’s fault” or is it just the product of being literally in The Mafia™?)

I’ll go over the “Cycle of Abuse” in a second, but please keep in mind that you can’t just blame everything on Mori. Just like the Director, it’s so easy to pin the guy who’s just been the worst for every problem there, but it decimates the other characters involved as well and makes what they’ve gone through go flat because you’re restricting it to a misinformed presumption.

To make a bold statement, I need you to completely throw away your idea of what the abuse cycle is. The Mori to Kyouka pipeline being the singular “Abuse Cycle”? Garbage, needs to go away too. I've seen many fans use the term “Cycle of Abuse” too carelessly, and while from afar the way they're using it is not technically wrong, they have the wrong thought process behind it.

The Cycle of Abuse is simply the patterns of what keeps us in an abusive dynamic and negative mental state, either with an individual or environment, and makes it incredibly hard for anyone to leave. It’s not the actions you take that make it the Cycle of Abuse, and it's not just one straight line of people going through similar motions. You don’t have to be someone’s abuser to be the one who keeps them there, if you feed into it you’re still a problem. Even if you don't actively add to it yourself, just staying there as a bystander and not trying to do anything to change it or speak up for the victim when you clearly could also still make you responsible. Just with your presence, it validates what they've gone through as normal.

If you need more of an explanation, two opposite examples include Higuchi & Akutagawa and Beast Kyouka & Atsushi. Higuchi is a traditional example in that she stays in the mafia because of her relationship with Akutagawa, and stays by his side for reasons unknown. What we do know is that she’s incredibly indebted to him enough to care for him to an extreme extent, but their relationship is abusive all the same. Beast Atsushi and Kyouka sounds strange for me to bring up, but this is an example of a non-abusive person contributing to the Cycle of Abuse. Instead of taking her out of an abusive situation, he brings her back in.

Many characters are a part of this main narrative of abuse in BSD, so it's not inaccurate to say Mori, Dazai, Akutagawa, and Kyouka are a part of it as well using this definition as all of them are the reason or contributed to why someone was stuck in a negative, abusive situation or the victim themselves. I’m guessing none of you are genuinely referring to this though and are referring to intergenerational abuse, a repeating cycle of younger generations taking after their abusers when they're older, which is a completely different phenomenon. Both are referred to as cycles and have many commonalities, but it’s not the same. Not to sound like a total dick, but this barely even applies to them.

Not because the concept is based on familial relationships, it can happen with older figures in your life too, but because our oh-so-famous Abuse Cycle gang does not have that commonality to make that claim. They have narrative parallels, but that’s pretty much it. I will save what I have to say in their sections, but Mori and Akutagawa did not abuse Dazai and Kyouka respectively for this type of claim to have any legitimacy. Kyouka certainly broke a cycle, but not that kind since that would need her to continue it in the first place and then prevent her own experiences from even affecting the next child.

What do all Mori, Dazai, Akutagawa, and Kyouka actually have in common? They are/were in the mafia, using their natural talents of cruelty for the underworld.

The Port Mafia resembles something of an abusive household or community that sees so much of what’s done to others there as normal, and constantly compares it to how it was with their old boss and thinks, “At least it wasn’t as bad as that.” It’s quite like the Orphanage Director’s thinking but on a larger scale. Does that make everyone in the Port Mafia abused? Nope, unlike most abusive communities, the Port Mafia is quite literally the mafia. Everyone is there for different reasons, at different ages, and different experiences. Everyone is taken advantage of in these situations, no matter the circumstances, but it doesn’t make them abused automatically.

So it’s hard to have a stance on anything about them being abusive other than the mentor situations in the Port Mafia don’t see abuse as abuse and just another way to teach their subordinates to survive in their world if they deem it necessary. Was Chuuya abused, either by Mori or Kouyou then? I’m going to have to say I can’t tell you that. We don’t have enough information on either of his dynamics with them to say that they’ve directly had any repetitive behaviors of direct harm against him specifically, and there's no reason for them to do so either. I’m not going to use the argument that “Chuuya doesn’t hate or fear them, so that must mean he wasn’t” because again, that type of response does not reflect so many situations.

Chuuya was still harmed by being in the Port Mafia as a teenager because nobody should have been surrounded by this much cruelty at that age. It doesn’t matter if he shows visible distress or not about the Port Mafia, he was just desensitized to it since his sheep days. So was he an abuse victim under the idea that being a child in the Port Mafia is abuse? That depends on who we’re speaking of, but in Chuuya’s situation, I'm going to have to say no as he's already internalized their mindset from his own experiences separate from the mafia. Keep in mind that it also still holds true that you can find family in situations like this, it’s not mutually exclusive. Some just find more comfort in what they’re used to than what would be better for them. Kyouka is a better example of someone being a victim of an abusive community.

A false claim I've seen made many times are the ones where they have it as if Mori is the mafia itself or that he made the mafia what it was. It shouldn’t be too surprising, but it’s the opposite. Mori already held flawed, heartless, calculative methods when in situations he thought required them. We’ve seen him as a soldier and an underground doctor, but we know nothing else about him outside of his cruelty, just like the headmaster. What he does is never for what he thinks is for his benefit, but for the sake of something larger. Whether it’s for the city, the country, or eventually, the Port Mafia.

The mafia is the first time he’s been put into a position of absolute leadership and is not yet accustomed to that at the beginning of Dazai, Chuuya, Age Fifteen. He’s able to quickly fit the mold of a mafia boss, but there’s that bit of honesty that peaks through in this light novel in the first and last sections that’s ignored too quickly. First Mori complains about nothing going immediately right, questions himself about Dazai, and becomes genuinely stressed if it was the right decision to involve him, then confesses that he sees himself in Dazai to him (and him and Fukuzawa in Soukoku in private), and finally gives his honest take of leadership to Chuuya.

I already go over Mori as a character in one of my other posts and will speak more of him later on, so I don’t want to reiterate the same points, but here we have proof he has (albeit poor) humanity. He did not become the Port Mafia boss for his own selfish gain of power if you’ve forgotten, but because Natsume introduced him to becoming part of the Tripartite Framework to protect the city he loves, it’s where he’d excel best in this plan. The Port Mafia was already a shithole, Mori just made it livable again by becoming what an organized crime group needs.

It’s what makes the dynamic between Kouyou and him so intriguing because you have an abuse victim who has embraced the environment she was forced back into, but won’t let go of someone who’s proven to be more of a decent leader than her tormentor and can be relied on. For victims who couldn’t get help or realize they needed help, the easier path is to accept this is your life through some justification. While I said the Port Mafia resembles an abusive community, communities as such aren’t purely terrible and that’s what keeps them justifying it in their head. The family you have for yourself, whether it's a made one or the one you're born with, is what sticks for you.

Like it or not, Mori isn’t stupid. He takes risky gambles that backfire on him sometimes, but he’s good at his job. He’s brutal enough to prove his own against the people who didn’t think he should’ve been boss and outsiders who want to go against the Port Mafia, but he’s considerate enough towards his people and shows enough competency to be perfect for the job. He’s not a great human being, but what did you expect? He no longer had any room to express that humanity, he never had; there was no benefit from being a good person in his line of work.

The Heartless Cur

That looked like a great segue to talk about Dazai and Mori’s dynamic, but it’d benefit to go over Akutagawa first. For those who do acknowledge it as an abusive situation, Thank you for at least taking that step. Numerous don’t and it worries me at the state of what’s considered abuse vs. training. It may be both at times but don't excuse one for the other. Training needs formal consent and communication at some point during a session. Akutagawa is learning, but it’s the same as getting yelled at as a child for not doing your homework right, when again, you’re still just learning.

It might’ve been easier to see for those who do acknowledge it because of the visible physical abuse that happens, but let's not undermine the psychological abuse happening as well. Dazai has messed with his psyche on an abhorrent level through his degrading and threats, making him reliant to hear a single word of acknowledgment from his mouth. What happened to Akutagawa is beyond the mafia’s environment.

Akutagawa does not hate or want Dazai dead for what he’s done to him, but he does hold anger at the seeming abandonment he’s been put through… and at himself as well. Anger that he couldn't get to what Dazai wanted him to be before he suddenly left. So he proves himself by climbing the ranks and becoming someone feared. Spectacles of violence not because he enjoys the feeling of other’s suffering or the power over them, but to show Dazai that see? He's still worth looking at!

He stays in the mafia because he’s found a place there. Even if he could, there was no point in leaving the mafia after he disappeared because what would be left for him if he did? He will always be an unchangeable, horrific hound of the dark and there's no changing that in his mind. From an inference of his actions in the dungeon when they finally reunite one-on-one, he wanted to believe that he was above Dazai after all those years, but Dazai doesn't act impressed or scared or anything. After all that effort, he gets nothing but ridicule and mockery like he's back to being that little kid with an oversized coat too big for his body.

Worse is that he gets told that some new kid Dazai picked up, who didn't train to the extent he did to refine his abilities, is better than him somehow. He gets riled up and at first, takes out on Dazai, but all those threats about killing him and how he went against the mafia were empty. Even now he can't bring himself to hate Dazai, he needs his mentor to acknowledge him no matter what side he's on. He never let go of Dazai, his coat is proof enough of that. So he takes it out on the party that isn't responsible and is convinced he needs to overcome Atsushi to prove something to Dazai.

He doesn't hate Atsushi, not genuinely. He does the same when he’s told he’ll never compare to Odasaku, someone who objectively should’ve been the weakest member due to his status. He gets angry at Dazai’s words, gets angry at himself, then takes it out on the person mentioned, rinse and repeat. I’m not sure if I’m the only one to notice, but he genuinely believed that the meaningful life Dazai gave him laid in the mafia and being useful to its cause. He has no reason to be as loyal to the mafia if he didn't think this.

Dazai’s acknowledgment means more than just appreciation for his skills and strength, it means his life meant something by striving for being the strongest. It’s not about the acknowledgment at all. Whenever he critiques and shames Atsushi for how he lives his life, it just feels like he’s unknowingly shaming himself through him without having to acknowledge his wrongs. It makes me curious about how much the acknowledgment itself even matters to him and the validation it gives him to strive for this is an excuse to keep living so what he’s doing in the mafia even matters in the end. What counts as acknowledgment to him?

He's convinced his faults are what made Dazai turn away, he just doesn’t know how to do anything to fix it and can't fix it this late into the game. What does Dazai want from him other than being stronger? When Dazai directly asks him to do something important involving Atsushi, he’s confused. He has no reason to trust him to do these missions. He’ll take the chance to prove himself once and for all, but to be included means he's being acknowledged, so what gives? The number of times he visibly self-reflects can be counted on one hand because as soon as it shows, he goes back to justify his violence and ignores his faults.

As someone whose favorite character is Akutagawa, I’m disgusted that all people can take away from him is “Akutagawa is an obsessive fanboy that deserves no sympathy because of what he did to Kyouka” or “Akutagawa is a poor, miserable man that didn’t deserve what Dazai made him into and should be absolved of responsibility because it’s all Dazai’s fault”. Both are very shallow and very harmful to perpetrate as they continue the idea that a person can only be the abused or abuser. He's both and it's okay to admit that.

Quickly let’s clear up this: He is not the way he is because of Dazai.

What Dazai IS responsible for:

Akutagawa’s need for his constant approval and recognition

Akutagawa learning to hone his ability

Akutagawa’s toxic views of being useful

The reason Akutagawa’s still alive

The reason Akutagawa is the Mafia’s dog

What Dazai is NOT responsible for:

Everything else

Akutagawa’s lean toward violence, his one-track stubborn mindset, and his lone-wolf attitude are not a product of Dazai’s treatment, he’s always been that way because of his time in the slums. He got beaten down by adults frightened of his empty gaze, had to learn to protect himself and find something to eat to survive, helped take care of his sister Gin and his friends by himself, and everyone constantly dying around him. That’s the real reason his personality is like that. He is a victim of his circumstances in a society that deemed him worthless, so he also thinks of his life as worthless. That’s why Dazai means so much to him.

Dazai did not trick him into joining the mafia, Dazai expressed what he was going to go through was worse than what happened in the slums and gave Akutagawa an out that he could live a normal life with enough money, but he knew Akutagawa would not refuse because he still needed meaning in living, just like him. Gaining enough money to get by so he and his sister could get out of the slums would do nothing for him, he already felt that his life was worthless. He has no problem throwing it away at any time, he was gonna die young regardless because of his lung disease. It has manipulative undertones, but that's how Dazai usually is with even the people he cares about.

Akutagawa knows too well that a person needs a sign, someone to tell them it’s okay to keep going, and so does Dazai. Part of Dazai’s goal is to save Akutagawa from dying and give him a reason to live like he promised that day because he sees the potential that could come from his development. I don't want to sound like a dick again, but you’d have to be dense to think Akutagawa would still be dead by the end of this arc. He isn’t sending him off to his death, Dazai doesn’t know everything.

Even if he knew Akutagawa might die there, it's better than both Atsushi and Akutagawa dying at that moment. If Akutagawa didn’t want to die for him, he wouldn’t have, he chose to save Atsushi’s life. This is why I have to defend Asagiri. Let’s reread the interview together, to make it get across already.

(Twt link)

Q: Just like how Akutagawa and Atsushi's relationship has changed, I could feel the relationship between Dazai and Akutagawa moving forward too. Is it like what Akutagawa has said in Episode 3 of Season 5, that every order he has received from Dazai so far has been "a trial", "a part of a meaningfull life"?

First, the question being asked. They’re asking Asagiri about their relationship in the present, and how it’s developed. Akutagawa is no longer thinking he was abandoned by Dazai for a new, better student like he was made him believe, that was just to rile him up and interact with Atsushi more. Instead, he realizes that he’s not supposed to work against Atsushi, he’s supposed to work with him. How he decides to go about that battle with Fukuchi and whether or not he works with Atsushi like a partner is his trial. If this was Akutagawa before he met Atsushi, he would’ve no doubt escaped or might’ve thought defeating Fukuchi would prove himself to Dazai. He's not an obstacle to his meaningful life, his quest for a meaningful life lies with Atsushi.

Asagiri responds with:

Asagiri: Needless to say, Dazai is the most qualified person in this world to help Akutagawa grow. Dazai has a vision for Akutagawa's development, and he completely understands what it takes to achieve it. We, as obsevers, can only see bits and pieces of that vision. But I can at least say that Dazai's training plan has never been wrong.

Many find this answer questionable, I was stunned reading it myself. Asagiri is not wrong at all here though, Dazai is objectively the only person in this series who can find a way to help him. Atsushi is the endpoint, but Dazai has been guiding him to this point. Dazai himself said that he was planning to team them up the moment he met Atsushi, he was still thinking of him even after all these years. There are much scarier implications than thinking that Asagiri was wrong. It's that Dazai was doing everything intentionally to get Akutagawa’s mindset where it was. He didn't mess up with Akutagawa, he just couldn't personally teach him the skills he needed and chose a different route until he found something that could.

Asagiri is not saying the abuse was morally justified, but the intention behind it was not wrong in an objective stance. Dazai would know what to do the most because of his understanding of wanting to find meaning in living. Teenage Dazai couldn’t have achieved much by himself, even if he could understand since he also could not find meaning in life. That’s why he made him hang on to his every breath of validation so he would keep his faith in Dazai long enough for him to find a solution to this dilemma. The moment in life when he found Akutagawa was not ideal and he still did what he thought he had to do for him to survive in the mafia. Without his ability, he's incredibly weak and needs to be able to defend himself. A violent person could not have made another violent person unlearn their violence.

You could say he just wanted a weapon, but that’s not it, not even close. Many of you are stuck on the part that it was a suicidal teenager that picked Akutagawa up from the slums and that no way someone like that could teach another suicidal teenager anything, so it’s “comical that Asagiri thinks as though he’s the most qualified”. You’re not wrong in some sense, but this is still incredibly intelligent, “Black Wrath of the Port Mafia”, Osamu Dazai, and not just some suicidal teenager.

He’s also no longer a teenager. Right now we’re talking of Dazai in the present who’s grown and no longer needs to be how he was in the mafia, he has Atsushi now, someone who can help Akutagawa see what’s wrong in his outlook. The only thing he could’ve done back then was to shelter Akutagawa so he wouldn’t kill himself. It's horrible, but Dazai validating where he is now would do no good for either of them and fix nothing.

Q: What kind of person is Dazai to Akutagawa?

Asagiri: Actually, at the time of "The Dark Era", Dazai already spoke very highly of Akutagawa, as someone who would "become the Mafia's strongest skill user in the not-so-distant future". He just doesn't say that in front of Akutagawa himself. The reason he doesn't say it is that Dazai has to be "the presence that continues to give meaning to life" to Akutagawa. So far, that trial has been completely successful.

None of what Asagiri brings up is new information. He doesn’t say it in front of Akutagawa not to spite him, but if he gives these praises out too freely, he loses his distant, almost god-like presence in Akutagawa and will go back to being just a lone wolf with no exceptions that will carelessly get himself killed. Without any goal, he’s lost. Just like Atsushi and the headmaster and how Atsushi hinges on proving he can do a good thing to motivate his life, Akutagawa similarly hinges on the fact that if he fails, he won’t get Dazai’s approval.

However, his death was not fully about Dazai’s approval in the way he's been preaching. In chapter 87, he mentions Dazai’s approval like always, and when they fail the first time even after trusting and working with each other as Shin Soukoku should, It hits him. What came into his head I cannot parse out at the moment, but his actions speak so much louder than any explanation we could've gotten. Of course, he's helping Atsushi escape, but what does he do for that? He used his ability on his shirt, and not just on the coat like he typically does.

It doesn't seem like a big deal at first, he could've always done that, but when was the last time he used it on something that wasn't the coat Dazai gave him? The coat means many things. His new beginning, his path in being Dazai’s student and successor (as that was also Mori’s coat), but it also conveys Dazai’s will that keeps him alive and that he's only strong with his coat. Without it, he's defenseless, so he clings to this coat the exact way he clings to those orders. It's his encouragement to keep going when Dazai isn't there. This overwhelming, suffocating responsibility, an oversized coat, is a lot to give to a kid but it's comfortable and he’ll grow into it eventually.

It was already a huge step in his development that he gave Atsushi his coat, but to use his ability not on his coat means he's making an effort to overcome his fixation and do an action unrelated to Dazai for the sake of Atsushi’s life. His whole life after the slums, everything he's ever done was with Dazai in mind. Him saving Atsushi’s life was not because he was doing what Dazai wanted him to do, that he'd finally get approval for doing It, and in turn give his life meaning before he died. When he saved Atsushi, it would give his life meaning in just that. He shouldn't let himself be defined by the past the way he criticizes Atsushi for, so he’s going to choose his meaning. I wouldn't say he's moved past Dazai yet, but he's getting there.

Dazai and Akutagawa’s relationship is not healthy in the slightest, and Dazai’s crueler actions and words against him are not right, but they’re still growing and not stagnant characters. Atsushi and Akutagawa learn from each other and that's what's pushing them to change. Nobody will pretend those past means weren’t just abuse, they were, but there's so much more to it. Like I asked with the director, was he successful? Well from what I’ve said, yes it so far has gone the way Dazai hoped for in the best-case scenario.

In the main universe at least, this is one of the better ways it could’ve gone. Beast is a different story. Teenage Dazai of the main universe was unsure of Akutagawa’s future and did only what he could’ve done at that time, but Beast Dazai does have that knowledge and he decided that it would be best for Akutagawa to not be in the mafia, instead bringing in Atsushi. It wouldn’t have been good to let him pursue his violent tendencies more than necessary in the mafia in this universe when he knew there was a better option, especially with someone like Oda, who would take the time to care for him properly.

Even if he didn’t bring him in, he still gave him the motivation to keep living for something. The prologue of Beast is a mirror to The Heartless Cur, with instead it’s a distant relationship of hate Akutagawa has for him for taking his sister. For those who argue that since Beast exists, that means Asagiri was somehow “wrong about Dazai”, but it’s still Dazai from the beginning that’s the source of this motivation. Dazai, who's still guiding him. If we’re gonna be honest, Dazai was putting their development/capabilities in speed run mode with the logic and future information he had access to prepare them for a timeline he won’t be alive for. There are many factors for what he did in Besst, but that’s not the conversation.

What does he get from helping him? Who knows, Asagiri wasn’t being cheeky when he said we only see bits and pieces of his vision. We barely have any clue what’s going through that man’s head, so don’t act like you do. He wasn’t always planning for the next Soukoku. Maybe it was a thought that came up sometimes, but he’s only met Atsushi recently. What about Akutagawa was so different from any other powerful ability-wielding orphan? Well, we’re not gonna know any time soon.

The point is that Dazai is thinking about their future, even if the abuse or manipulation makes that hard to see. Please do remember that abuse is still selfish no matter the intention, but non-selfish intentions make it all the more complicated to process. Their relationship is not misunderstood by Asagiri himself, it’s just clear to me most don’t want to face the unpleasant truth that there is more to their dynamic. When I first realized what was going on, I couldn’t help but get unnerved and awkward when someone would ask me about these two. These are both characters in the spotlight that you’re supposed to care about, but what happened between them is rotten.

You’re not supposed to pretend it didn’t happen because Dazai still contributed to who he is and it shows whenever it’s on screen. Abuse doesn’t make us stronger, don’t make it as if that’s a message that Asagiri is spreading. What happened to him motivated his development, but with Atsushi, that’s the opposite. Their circumstances are different and victims process what's happened to them in various ways. Depicting it in a form less common than usual doesn't mean the author thinks in the same way the victim does, it's just nuance at work.

I did not add Akutagawa’s attitude towards his subordinates and newer members as Dazai’s responsibility because Dazai is not the one controlling his hands when he hits Higuchi. Dazai’s mentoring contributed to his toxic views of being useful, but it’s only Akutagawa’s responsibility once he raises his hand. Instead of thinking of this in the context of the most typical abusive situation you can think of, how about this:

Your parent was raised in an abusive household, but they think they came out of it just fine and that there was nothing wrong with how they were treated. They treat you almost the same way, and all you can take away from that when you find out is, “At least it’s not as bad as it could’ve been”. You still hold anger at the standards they’re forcing you to reach, but if that’s what it takes to get that approval, then you’ll keep going anyway. Even if you get yelled at and you know you shouldn’t be treated like this, it’ll feel nice when you finally get on their good graces, right?

Then you get a new sibling, and all of that comes crumbling down. They don’t treat your sibling anywhere near the same when you were that age. Years go by and you get angrier and angrier. Why is it only you that was put to that standard? Even worse is that they treat you differently now too. You finally got to those standards, but now what is it worth? They’re so much nicer now and you want to curse them out for only changing now. Why couldn’t have had that parent from the beginning? It’s so unfair, but you can’t take it out on them because you still need them, they mean so much to you. As angry as you were, they were doing it because they cared about you in their way, you think. It was what your grandparents did to them at least. So you start treating your sibling similarly to how you were treated because you can’t take it that they didn’t experience that hardship without destroying yourself first.

Question: Are you right in what you did? Was the parent responsible for what you did to your sibling?

Nobody in their right mind would say yes to that first question. It makes sense why it happened, but continuing abuse will never be the correct answer. You’re doing the same thing your parent did. The second question needs more exposition to answer, however. How responsible is responsible?

In the end, even if it was the parent who influenced it, you’re only responsible for what you’ve done on your own accord. The parent did not tell you to take it out on your sibling, you decided that yourself. The parent is still responsible for what they’ve done to you, never get that wrong, but if you say that your guilt is absolved because it’s all their fault, you sound no different from any other abuser in denial. Are you saying now that the parent is also absolved from guilt because it’s all their parent’s fault too? Listen to yourself, You hurt someone but it’s not your fault, but the person who hurt you is also somehow not at fault? If someone came up to you and said that, you’d be fed up.

For those who do the same thing with Mori, rethink what you’re saying. Is it that painful to admit your favorite characters are at fault and that they’re changing? This comparison isn’t perfect and ignores some key factors: Dazai isn’t Akutagawa’s or Atsushi’s father and is not much older than them, the Port Mafia is a violent workplace environment and requires you to be able to navigate it a certain way, and all three of them at adults in present time. I used this comparison to be more real to earth and something a larger audience could process themselves to truly get that the emotions here are not straightforward even in a realistic situation.

Re: Portrait of a Father

Just like the prologue, in chapter 3 of the Beast light novel, Portrait of a Father is mirrored and retold in brutal upset that does not hold the hopeful bittersweetness at the end of it unlike its original. Before the present day, against all orders Dazai gave him, Atsushi attacked the orphanage on the day of his birthday. On his birthday, he would be reborn from the ashes of his past being burnt away, and kill the director inside to release himself from the fear of those memories.

It’s what he says at least.

Playing out, the director was expecting him. There might have only been one person in his mind who would’ve attacked a rundown orphanage on this scale. It frightens Atsushi after all that planning and fear of losing to the director, he could still see through him, but confusion takes hold when he’s told that he was late for his graduation.

Graduation? Atsushi is in fight or flight mode, why is he approaching him with this box? He can’t imagine it being anything other than a weapon, nothing else would make sense for this cruel monster. The director won’t give him any straight answer, just repeating words he’s heard over and over growing up here. He uses his tiger hearing to glean what could be inside.

Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock.

There’s the proof, it had to be a bomb. He needs to protect himself before anything happens or he’ll die. He’s scared, he can’t move, but he has to fight. The director opens his arms for the embrace of his child… and death, plummeted into a bloody mess on the floor. Only out of the corner of his eye, only when Atsushi stopped, he saw what was in the box. It was a watch, brand new and high-end. Happy Birthday was what was written on a sheet of paper next to it.

His last words, whispered into his ear, were words of encouragement: “Yes… just like that.”

I was not kidding when I said this was brutal. Just like in the main universe, Atsushi learns why he did what he did and can’t place any of his feelings, but overwhelmingly guilt crushes him to keep protecting people with his life rather than just fear because he killed him. He finds out much earlier about what happened with Shibusawa, and how the director protected his identity as the tiger.

The director’s intentions are draining when you let your mind wander. As we’ve established, the headmaster as a figure of hate for Atsushi is intentional on his part. He doesn’t explain anything on purpose here to probe him into killing him. He bought that watch for Atsushi as a congratulations for growing up and becoming a new independent individual.

In the split minute before Atsushi took the first swing, he said his usual, “Those who fail to protect others do not deserve to live.” I have to question now if he was so willing to die there, even encouraging him to kill him, then has it been this whole time he still can’t live with himself for what happened to his friends… or is it because he couldn’t protect Atsushi anymore? Maybe I’m overthinking it and it was just that the headmaster thought Atsushi needed to kill him to remove an obstacle in his growth as an individual, to be a necessary sacrifice for his benefit.

It's too flawed though. The director will never leave him, not after all that he's engraved into Atsushi. The watch has become not a symbol of a person who's found himself, but a child that's latched himself onto his father's cold corpse that won't ever respond, but that child would do anything to have him wake up and say "Good job, Atsushi". The director also has a clock, but can he call himself a strong individual when he hasn't let go of the past either?

Time stopped for Beast Atsushi when he picked up that watch. If he had just followed orders, none of this would’ve happened. If he isn’t his father’s child, if he doesn’t uphold his last wish, then who is he? When he’s no longer in the mafia and has time for himself to think, he wanders.

He failed in becoming someone he could be proud of, he deserved to die for that but doesn't want to be dead… because It wasn't truly about the Director, just like how it wasn't truly about Dazai’s acknowledgment or saving his sister for Akutagawa. At first, that was the motivation, it's the reasoning they keep going with, but in the end, it was to save their own life and give it purpose to validate why they're still around. If they can die like this, then it's all the same. If they have their own life in someone else’s hands, then they no longer have to be responsible for their own heavy-hearted weight.

Beast Atsushi is given neither and is taken of his reasoning, but he keeps going. Aimlessly.

Luckily, it’s not where his story ends.

He wakes up in his old orphanage, and it’s no longer the dreary place it was when he was younger. Kids laughing outside, no chains on the walls or bars blocking off the windows, and the new Orphanage Director greets him. He tells him that he will go back to being a student of the orphanage until he can become independent again, under one of Dazai’s last requests before he died.

Still, there’s one thing he needs to do. The new director takes out the watch and tells him to break it. Atsushi is distraught by this notion, but he won’t let Atsushi leave if he doesn’t. The new director has good reason, there is no point in becoming someone the past director was proud of and this is what’s holding him back. Atsushi, eventually, tells him he will not break the watch. He can’t move on just yet and this watch is still proof he’s himself, yet…

He’ll keep going and move forward, just like Akutagawa told him after he spared his life. The new director finds those words to be enough, saying he can’t leave until he finds something else to define himself with, but he can keep living here as his son. He went there to burn away his past and came out of it not able to let go of the past, but now he can redo and process it healthily with someone willing to hold him like a father should.

The Man Who Raised Dazai

Everyone who’s read Beast has questioned it: Why did Dazai in his right mind have Mori take care of an orphanage? Why did he save his life? Better yet, why is he so nice?! I have come up with some speculation on why Dazai would.

“Beast Dazai recognized this potential of change either from the multitude of universes he was able to witness or recognized it in his own considering canonverse Dazai never does anything against Mori (even if he visibly dislikes him).”

“Possibility is one thing, the why is another. It was either that he saw potential and good that could come out of this in the long run, Mori’s intelligence and expertise still proves usefulness, less dangerous for Oda in the long run if he let Mori stay there instead of the Mafia, or all three.”

(Didn’t feel like rephrase them)

We can’t know anything for sure about his decision, but I do know Mori is the type of character to sacrifice his feelings for what he thinks would logically benefit the sum, and there’s no better way to release yourself from that too-calculative responsibility than to remove yourself from it and to be in a place where you’re allowed to care for others and express yourself when there is no greater purpose than to just grow.

What happened with Yosano is undoubtedly wrong, but Mori had put away any sympathy in those situations because he needed her to do what he brought her in for. I was confused by his declaration that violence should never be used to educate children when I read it, especially out of his mouth, but now I understand. He would know with certainty that it’s not the right way to educate children, particularly because this is a Mori that hasn’t been in the dark for these past years and has grown to care for these children at the orphanage without any greater intention for them.

He’s not like the Old Director because he has no reason to think these kids would end up the way he did. They’re just kids that need someone to raise them with kindness, kindness will be what gets them through life as functional adults. Abuse has too many drawbacks to be called an optimal solution here. Is it surprising that all it took to change Mori was the kindness and salvation Dazai offered to him when he took over? Can you believe it was that simple to treat someone like a human being instead of a figure of hate?

What sticks out to me like a sore thumb is that when he’s introduced in Beast, he’s referred to as the man who raised Dazai. He is, regardless of what you think, the closest thing Dazai has to a father figure. In regards to how the fanbase speaks of their relationship, it’s hard to think that he cared about Dazai, but he did and the extent of how bad it got between them is grossly exaggerated.

As many comparisons Dazai gets with Yosano, their relationship with Mori is very different. Unlike Yosano, he did not need to be forced to do anything with psychological abuse and he did not need to be torn down to do what Mori asked him to. We don’t know what happened to him to become like this, but it wasn’t because of Mori. Yosano had light in her and a motivation to do the right thing, but Dazai didn’t. Dazai is no stranger to any violence or using violence himself even before Mori if he's this desensitized.

It’s useful that Dazai is like that when he meets him, up until it isn’t. He’s moody and actively looking to die. Mori can’t predict him that easily and Dazai can see right through him. There’s another huge difference between them though: Mori sees himself in Dazai. We don’t have enough insight in his head to make conclusive statements, but I think this is why he cared for Dazai. It’s not because he saw a child struggling that he cared, but grew some fondness because he saw a little mini-him. When he drove Dazai out of the Port Mafia, he expected him to come back and take back his vacant seat.

Eventually, Dazai will come back and realize that petty anger about someone dying is illogical in somewhere like the mafia. But because of him not being able to see through Dazai and seeing himself in him, he also expected him to eventually usurp his seat if he stayed any longer. That is why he had invited Mimic at the time he did and manipulated the situation so Oda, someone he knew Dazai cared for, would go and take care of the situation flawlessly. He’d be sacrificed and Mori could get something out of it, a Skilled Business Permit. A perfect plan… in theory, but Mori was wrong and miscalculated on many levels because of how many assumptions he made about Dazai.

First, he wouldn’t have known that it was Oda who held the words that would convince him to leave the mafia and go into the world of light. Dazai will never come back to his own volition. Second, as those panels quite literally tell you, Dazai was never planning on killing him. He saw his place in the mafia and saw that he was needed there. When Mori finally realizes his mistake with Dazai 4 years later during the Guild Arc, he can’t go back. His plan was still perfectly sound and he still got what he wanted out of it. He shouldn’t regret it, but…

Now that’s been paved out, where does wanting to save Dazai fit into this? If I had to assume, it’s the same reason he didn’t shoot Dazai for leaving his office during Dark Era. He cared about that boy, for 4 whole years he left him and his seat alone when the logical thing he should be doing was replacing him, but as much as he might’ve cared, he needed to put the mafia first. He didn’t let him die because of his use, but also because of their so-called “common destiny” in his eyes, a diamond in a rough he might’ve disposed of otherwise if he didn’t see his potential. There’s not much he could’ve done for Dazai here except keep him healthy and alive. Mori gets tons of flack for not trying to help him, but there's nothing he could've done, not in their position.

He can't cultivate his potential if there is abuse involved because there is no logical reason for him to do anything to Dazai. You guys have to stop assuming the worst when it comes to Mori, you’re missing huge character details that are right in front of you. The difference between Mori, the Boss of the Port Mafia, and Mori, the Orphanage Director is that he had time to rekindle his humanity so he’s able to care about him like a normal human being, feel guilt, and admit regret after Beast Dazai has died. Mori at most was responsible for ingraining tactical strategies and theories and molding him into the perfect Mafioso and right-hand man.

Not to say any of those aren’t a bad thing. He’s still a child and having him use his desensitized, intelligent mind to build the potential in what he could do for the mafia, it’s just that he’s responsible for very little in Dazai’s personality. The only answer I could give about Dazai being abused by Mori or being abused under the credentials that he’s a child in a violent, unsafe place is the same answer given earlier for Chuuya: in his case, not really.

Regarding this, I retract my statement about anything I’ve said about Beast Atsushi not being a victim in his time in the mafia, but I still hold my stance that he’s not the victim of the port mafia. I want to say the same thing about Beast Dazai and Atsushi that I do here, but considering he picked him up and trained him like how he trained Akutagawa, there’s a great chance Dazai emotionally abused him when you read their interactions. Not physically as that would make him too much like the headmaster, but just enough emotional distress in bringing up traumatic moments to manipulate him into doing what he needs of him.

It’s not a good relationship, but Mori wasn’t targeting Dazai in any real way like the Director and Atsushi or Dazai and Akutagawa. Unlike every other section, I have to conclude that he didn’t do anything to Dazai in that regard other than treating him like another adult when he shouldn't have. I don’t have much to say negatively about their dynamic otherwise. Just a weird, terrible son with his weird, terrible father. It’s more like someone who's taking after their mentor’s teaching and methods rather than an abuse victim echoing their abuser. This is why I don't accept the “Cycle of Abuse” as how the fandom understands it. It tells me a lot that people resort to the blame game.

I wonder what Dazai and Mori’s relationship would've looked like without any of this in the middle. Maybe something in cadence with Ranpo and Fukuzawa, but I can't help thinking that accepting Atsushi as his son in Beast instead of a student wasn't just for Atsushi’s sake. He was about to call him his student too, but immediately changed his mind. He already admitted he was helping him because of what happened to Dazai, so it can’t be a huge jump to think that in the same way this is Atsushi’s redo in building a relationship with a father figure, this is Mori’s redo to give him some atonement for the boy he failed.

A Mother’s Love

Kyouka, when we first meet her, appears as a force to be reckoned with. With skills a young girl shouldn’t have, and a demon shadowing behind, she’s a terrifying opponent. Quickly though, that appearance falls short in tragedy when the bomb Atsushi’s after is found on her own body and when he asks if she truly wants to kill... She has no answer, but her actions speak clearly. She gives him the defuser because she doesn’t want any more people to die, but the man behind the phone will not let it defuse.

So Kyouka does the next best thing to save more from dying: falling off the train with the bomb that’s about to go off. As long as she dies with it, nobody can use her and her abilities to massacre the people on the train when the bomb eventually fails to do what is necessary. Because that’s when Atsushi realizes that she cannot control her ability herself. No matter what she genuinely wants, she will never have the ability to obtain it because of this one fact. She can only be what people tell her she is.

We all know this story well, she gets saved by Atsushi and the man behind the phone is Akutagawa. Atsushi offers her the same kindness Dazai extended to him regardless of his reputation and destruction because it’d only be the right thing to do. He knows her incoming fate of eventual death for her crimes, he can’t do much, but she should at least experience normalcy this one time.

When she’s about to turn herself in, Akutagawa stops her and tells her she did her job well as a decoy for him to capture Atsushi. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but there’s a peculiar oddness about Akutagawa here in his attitude towards Kyouka. In all logic, even though she is a strong tool to the mafia, she’s a low-level member, a disobedient one at that, and should’ve been killed on sight for her betrayal considering how quick he is to violence, but he talks as if nothing even happened. He brushes off any thought of her dying as she’s spouting nonsense and that she’s going to go back to the mafia as normal.

But then he spouts off about how she’s better off dead on the ship if she stops killing. What’s up with that? It’s not completely obvious at first, but he’s projecting his own experiences in the slums and beliefs formed from Dazai’s mentoring onto her. From his time when he wasn’t in the mafia, he tells her there’s nothing left out there for people like them, there’s only rock bottom. He can confidently say that there is nowhere that would accept her for her ability, demon snow, because it’s the same for him.

The only way her life can have value is to kill to be useful, just like any good mafia member. It’s exactly why that flashback with Dazai happens here. He’s the one who fed him these thoughts he’s lived with for these past 6 years, and what she’s been believing for 6 months. He doesn’t loathe her, he sees it as doing a favor for her. What else can a little girl who can kill be use of except to kill in her circumstances?

Contrary to popular belief, he is not her abuser and is not the same thing Dazai was to him. He neither trained her nor did we have information on their relationship to come to that conclusion. The only thing we know is that he was the one sent to pick her up by the Port Mafia. We can prove she is not the way she is because Akutagawa since Beast, well, exists. She is one of the few characters I can confidently say was a victim of the Port Mafia itself and not just a person of the Port Mafia specifically.

Akutagawa was trying to be what Dazai was to him, but he is selling a bastardized version of it to her. The person who was her Dazai was Atsushi, the same person who was given Dazai’s act of kindness. Someone who has experienced the same things Akutagawa has and is living proof that she can hope for something better.

He could see that the same revenge and lack of regard for her life in her eye was the same kind he met Dazai with. Despite that, these lessons he’s internalized have helped no one, not even himself. She can’t find meaning in something that is the root cause of her suicidal ideation. This life is unfulfilling for people like them who need meaning in life. Akutagawa doesn't realize this because he still has Dazai to be his motivational goal. That’s why he failed to help Kyouka, Dazai’s efforts would’ve been considered an utmost failure too if he wasn’t actively trying to fix that misunderstanding. Kindness is what actively saves us and helps us grow, the harm in abusive environments will only stunt us. But what happens when kindness is offered to us, but nothing comes out of it except proving us right that we’re unsavable? Then you have Kouyou.

Kouyou is the second person I could say was a victim of the Port Mafia. She has the same belief Akutagawa had about people like them being unable to be saved, so the only thing they can do is embrace it. I can’t claim she was Kyouka’s abuser either as we again don’t know enough, but that doesn’t change that her behavior is emotionally abusive, and is a much better contender than he is.

She’s doing the same thing Akutagawa was doing himself. Seeing themselves in this child and doing what she “needs” instead of what she wants. Just like him, she views this as saving her from the hands of light that will never make room for them and will ignore everything else she says. When Akutagawa is faced with her “disillusionment”, he… accepts it when she refuses his will and chooses another path, but almost kills her to spare her from that decision that would “doom” her.

Kouyou is much less accepting, opting to kill the root source of this hope itself, Atsushi, because her fondness for Kyouka prevents her from leaving her for dead. In contrast to Akutagawa’s attempt at being what gives her life meaning, Kouyou wants to stop Atsushi from being like the same man who also gave her hope that they could escape to the world of light. She can’t bear to see Kyouka go through the same realization she did far too late.

I can see what you're thinking, why am I reluctant to call either of them Kyouka’s abuser? Even if Akutagawa doesn't count, shouldn't Kouyou count because she seems to have an actual relationship with her and her effects are prevalent in Beast, the same points I mentioned to debunk accusations against him? Sure actually, but think about it like this. What the Port Mafia does have in common with real situations is that this is a community that is full of victims who refuse to process their traumatic experiences for any reason, and bring down others to their level when they don’t fit in their narrative to justify what’s happened to them.

There isn’t just one abuser weighing over you, there's this collective pressure from so many who aren't your abuser but they still contribute to your abuse with their presence itself. If Dazai wasn’t there in the mafia, would Akutagawa's situation have changed? Yes. Now if Akutagawa or Kouyou weren’t in the mafia, would Kyouka's situation have changed? Not at all. She’d have fewer examples to refer to, but she’d still be abused. If it’s easier to imagine, think of it similarly to cult mentality and how they keep you in cults. That is the reason I emphasized being a victim of the Port Mafia instead of an individual. Kouyou, Q, and Kyouka, while you can pin their main perpetrators on certain people, their overall situation doesn't change.

Now why doesn’t she just use the phone herself instead of letting people call Demon Snow for her? Wouldn’t she have more agency that way? Atsushi proposes this, but she rejects it instantly. It’s a very simple answer, it’s the same reason she can’t bear to look at it outside of when she’s forced to use it in combat. It’s her ability that killed her parents and why she was forced into this position.

It’s not hard for a little girl to believe she’s nothing more than a killing machine when she sees that night her ability would mercilessly kill her parents. She eventually caves when Kouyou points out how quick she is to vindicate violence to protect that hope she desperately wants a part of, and how she will never change. Her first mission with the Armed Detective Agency is proof in itself. Was Atsushi going to keep extending his kindness after hearing what she could only blame herself for?

Kouyou is a character I’ve seen that gets a lot of double standards compared to all of the other characters I’ve mentioned with abusive tendencies and is almost purely liked. She’s not seen as an absolute monster (The director, Mori) or controversial with one side containing pure dislike and another pure love (Akutagawa, Dazai), it’s only that she’s a well-written, sympathetic badass girl boss. It’s either because she’s a woman, that she doesn’t use an overt intimidation style, that her motives are more obvious in their emotional influences, or all of the above that she’s not treated the same.

Kouyou’s motivations are not special, as I’ve said. The only thing that differentiates them from the others is that they’re not covered by a mask of indifference. As fond as she is for her, she’s not much different from anyone else who holds the mafia up in high regard. She weaponizes her words in where they’d hurt the most so Kyouka would come with her. The entire last section of their battle sums up with her saying, “Kyouka come with me, they’ll only use you for your Ability when they get a hold of it. Even if the mafia did the same thing, at least they’ll accept you for who you truly are: a natural-born killer. You don’t have to fight anymore, I’ll protect you.”

When Atsushi finds Kyouka once again subsequently in her disappearance, she chooses to embrace her violence to help the Armed Detective Agency in this fight with the Guild. After her walk in where she used to reside, she comes the the conclusion she no longer belongs there. Against Kouyou’s wishes, she will brandish her blade for a home. That blows up in her face the moment she starts. Atsushi gets taken, and it’s just as Kouyou said would happen. If even her violence doesn’t get her wish, then what can she do besides leave herself to her fate?

As someone who’s seen another with a talent for killing walk the path of good and is on that same path himself, Dazai talks to her. He tells her about how she hasn’t gone through her entrance exam yet, how she isn’t an official member because she hasn’t proven her will or life on the line to help people she doesn’t necessarily know. Kyouka doesn’t believe she could’ve passed if that’s what it takes, but Dazai doesn’t agree with the points she’s brought up. So what if she’s killed or considered dangerous? That doesn’t make her less qualified to be a part of the Detective Agency, everyone there is from different backgrounds.

She can’t know everything, not even about herself. Nobody does, but it takes others to see more of yourself. Excelling in one area doesn’t prevent you from nurturing your potential in another. What would that make someone like Atsushi, a person who’s been her guiding figure throughout—but was never seen as anything more than a threat or a beast because of his ability before he joined them? The truth is, our lives aren’t defined by one purpose the moment we’re born, it’s only something you can make for yourself. We’re not the places we’ve been raised in, not the ideas people apply to us, and we’re especially not defined by the traumatic experiences we had no control over.

All of it accumulates the person we are today, and we can’t change that no matter how much we resent parts of our image that don’t hold up to what society deems as right, but it shouldn’t take control over what we want for ourselves. It isn’t fair for the victims who were forced into a life where they had to fend for themselves, the children who had to navigate an adult’s messed up world that didn’t have room for them to grow as kids should. Forced into a box where they stay unaware that they’ve ever left their mother’s womb, break out in fury with eyes that grew up too early—only to become lost and thrown away, or rot in that box without a single person knowing they were a breathing, living human being.

I deem abuse selfish for this very reason. Kouyou is wrong for this very reason. If she finds comfort in her reasoning, then I can’t critique her for her own choices and will have to respect her for choosing to stay in the mafia even when the old boss is dead, every abuse victim is different, but not a single person is born evil or good, in the dark or light. Not a soul has to stay in one place because they started there. It’s going to be a hard journey to truly achieve what you long for, results aren’t immediate and not everyone gets there no matter their effort, but still try. Try because it’s still worth trying, because you’re still worth more than you think.

In parallel, you can only get there as long as you’re seeking it. Too many see the Armed Detective Agency as something that will automatically save characters just by working there, but the only way it can help them is if they seek out their help themselves. The ADA is not the right place for every character, but Kyouka does want a place there. After her conversation with Dazai, she knows what she wants to do now. She will smash the drone she’s in into Moby Dick so nobody will have to die, but sacrifice her own life in the process. She’s chained to this place, but her choices aren’t.

She doesn’t have to die with regret, with this she can pass the entrance exam and become an agency member like she wanted. She made a difference for herself just by this act. It’d be a pretty melancholy arc if it ended like that, thank god we know it doesn’t end like this. When you become a full agency member, you gain more control over your ability, meaning—

She’s fine.

The exposition is over, let’s talk about Kyouka. Her arc is beautiful and the neglect to talk about her when it comes to her abuse story besides saying, “She’s the one who stopped the abuse cycle” and then nothing else is heartbreakingly superficial. She didn’t stop it, it’s impossible to, but she did break out of it. Kyouka’s section has more exposition than the others but I expected that. I wanted to save her for last because she’s the only one whose arc has come to a peaceful conclusion and not unfinished, and the lighter message felt nice to leave off on.

I shouldn’t berate Kouyou too much, the only reason she stayed in that room after being captured by the ADA is because she did want Kyouka to experience what she never had, and speaking with Dazai helped reassure her that Kyouka would be able to achieve her dreams. It’s no longer the age of the old boss. As well as her shedding the truth about her parent’s death so she wouldn’t have to resent her ability as not an avatar of massacre, but a product of her parents’ love that will always stay with her. She didn’t let go of the phone she’s had this entire time because her mother told her not to let it go.

Me going over Kouyou in this fashion is not me saying you shouldn’t love her character, I like her too. It’s just that it’s passed over so fast what she did, but somehow Akutagawa is more at fault here is mind-boggling. I’d get it a little more if this is because she redeemed herself by wanting the best for Kyouka over what was best for the mafia, but I doubt that’s the case when that moment is talked about so little as well.

I genuinely need you all to understand that not every character is going to have a satisfying, clean conclusion like this. Akutagawa’s story is most likely not going to have a conclusion that satisfies everyone and you should respect it when it comes. There’s no perfect way of writing abuse, but there’s no correct way of doing it either. I don’t think Dazai is going to have the repercussions you want him to have any time soon. If you got the message from Beast, getting revenge on an abuser doesn’t make us feel better or let us process what happened to us. Total resentment keeps us stuck.

The only thing that will heal us is the kindness so many offer in this series. You in no way need to extend that kindness to an abuser, you don’t need to forgive them or let them into your life again, but be kind to yourself and don’t let resentment prevent you from focusing on yourself. Forgiveness and reconnection are not the same thing. Don’t be angry when a victim does want those things. Unless it’s character inconsistent, that’s not something we shouldn’t have any opinion on as the right or wrong way to go about their lives. What if later they do change their mind and want something different from what they originally planned? That’s fine too. Everyone is different. Don’t give unsolicited advice to people who do not want it, let them decide for themselves. It is the best thing you can do.

The worst abusers are the ones who refuse to change and see wrong in what they’re doing, but what about the ones who do want that? Then also let them heal. They did something awful, why isn’t it a good thing they want to stop it now? You don’t have to let them in just because they changed though. Apologies don’t fix the damage already done, but to some victims, it feels nice to feel that what’s been done to them is acknowledged. You don’t want them to hurt others the way they’ve done to you, and neither do they. It hurts to let them forgive themselves when you haven’t and never will, you want to see them suffer, but that’s the only way things can change.

Dazai has changed, is he a good person even after what he’s done? I despise this question for any character of this series. He’s grown so much, and if you don’t think so, reread his conversation with Kyouka I beg of you. It is a far cry from his mindset in the mafia. A better person for sure, but a good person is hard to define for anyone in this series. The mafia is still the mafia, do any of them qualify as good people? The government, even if it’s the position of the right in society, is still an unjust system.

What a good person is cannot be an objective answer, people think there is but it’s not. A good person is how much we know about them and where our position in life affects our viewpoint. Prejudice values don’t make you correct in what you think a good person is, being convicted of a crime, one you might not even have committed, doesn’t automatically make you a bad person, being associated with a group doesn’t mean anything about who you are, etc. It’s all subjective in the end.

Meaning someone like Odasaku is essential in a story like this. He still has a presence in this narrative, even if he died in a light novel, because his existence pushes the boundaries of a “good person” in the fact his contradictory existence establishes itself. He failed in walking the path he wanted, but he doesn’t regret it even in his dying moments trying to.

Afterthoughts

The themes of morality and humanity go hand in hand with the abuse present in Bungou Stray Dogs, so it was hard avoiding talking about this when it was necessary. I don’t think it’s right of us to judge a character’s path that isn’t finished, in a story that’s nowhere near done. Ultimately, I’m only talking in a place of experience but never will it make me exempt from any personal bias. I tried to be as objective and nuanced as I could about this, and I hope it shows.

Abuse isn’t one of those things that I can analyze from any logical stand point or take resources to back my statements up about abuse. Of course everything I say can be backed up, but abuse is a personal, human matter and we’re just human being trying to figure out more than we can handle. I just couldn’t be comfortable with how people are now choosing to talk about Asagiri and needed to shed some light in what you’re missing.

Now I could’ve gone over Higuchi or Lucy because their stories also involve abuse, but I don’t think I could say anything new about them without repeating points I’ve already said. We know very little about Higuchi and what made her so devoted to Akutagawa, and Lucy is pretty quick to summarize considering her story is just like Atsushi’s. Q is also a character to be brought up but I don’t have enough information on them to say much about any abuse itself that happened.

Yosano was also an option but I don’t think anyone had any trouble understanding her backstory. Well I was only really aiming to speak about what’s not been spoken enough. Thank you for reading haha, god this thing is monstrous. Already got to 14k words by the time I was officially done…. I didn’t know if I wanted to lean into character analysis or just exposition, I hope it’s a good enough mix of both. This took way longer than the 4 days I was planning to write this in.

I was later reminded that I could do a post on how their abilities functioned and reflect on their abuse/traumatic events, but I didn’t think I’d have enough room for that here. It could be a bonus post eventually? I don’t think I did Kyouka enough justice in that aspect, but i’d just be beating myself up again about not making this perfect.

I hope I don’t come off scary or a very serious person? I’m very open to requests or discussions people want to engage in. Oh jeez, I’ll just embarrass myself if I keep talking. Writing this was a bit much, never really liked writing stuff myself. Sorry if glossed over anything, I wanted to stay on topic and not detail into something unnecessary.

The message BSD has is a pretty normal one, but there’s something very special about how it’s written here and I’m happy it exists. Maybe I shouldn’t have made this so long? But there’s so much to express sigh……

[genderqueerdykes]

hiiii so ive been meaning to say this for a hot minute but thank you for speaking up for two spirit folx. we're so often neglected for more mainstream western mostly eurocentric labels & most only treat us as an afterthought if we're even considered at all in queer history & now so thank you it means a lot !!

hello there, thanks for taking the time to send this message!

i'd like to be more inclusive and help talk about two spirit identities more- currently, i feel like i'm not as educated as i'd like to be, as i've only known a small handful of two spirit folks personally. i'd like to make sure i'm being as respectful and accurate as possible whenever i do mention these identities and issues, because i know so much of that eurocentricism ends up alienating a lot of two spirit individuals

i attended a queer rights conference in 2011 or so, and listened to an indigenous speaker on two spirit issues. there, i was introduced to the concept that many two spirit people do NOT consider themselves queer or LGBT due to how eurocentric those identities are. i know that not every two spirit person feels this way, but it's helped me realize that not every two spirit person identifies the same way, just like anyone else, and it's important to listen to that diversity in experience and not force people into a system that may not fit them at all whatsoever

but there's also what you're discussing, which is that many two spirit people do identify as trans and/or queer, and white queers just do their very best to ignore that or act as though it's not something that belongs in the community. cultural queer identities are extremely important and if a two spirit person believes they fit into the queer community due to their experiences, that is their right and their experience deserves to be discussed just like anyone else's, as it's complex and nuanced just like any other LGBTQ identity

i am here to both uplift two spirit and indigenous people, while also not putting words into their mouths and speaking as though i'm a master on an identity i will literally never understand personally. it's not my place to try to understand it from a personal standpoint, but it is my place to try to help people feel welcome in how they identify, whether or not they feel they fit into our white eurocentric concepts of queerness, but also to not deny that person's identity if they do feel like they are part of the queer umbrella

it's still something that's extremely important to talk about, just like how it's important to discuss intersex people who do not view themselves as queer due to their intersex conditions. i know there are many white people out there who would ask a two spirit person "why not just identify as bigender or genderfluid?" which is so painfully disrespectful. some people's identities are inherently tied to their culture and that desires to be heard

some two spirit people identify as trans and queer, and some don't, and that's okay. every person who has this experience deserves to talk about it and feel represented, and not feel like their identity is a backseat to everyone else's. if anyone has good resources on two spirit identities actually written by indigenous people, i would love to read more. unfortunately so much information on the internet has been written by those same white europeans and their descendants and i do not want to listen to those voices at all when it comes to this subject

i hope to be even more inclusive in the future! thanks for your kind message, i hope to become even more inclusive and educated as time goes on. hope you are well, take care of yourself!