#especially rhaegar why does anyone like this fucking ass

[navree]

35 😈

35. A character you just don’t get the hype of

I'd say you want me murdered but I had to work on contentious primary campaigns so no Internet hate train based on fictional characters can keep me down. There's a lot, honestly, I'm very contrarian. The only things I like about show!Daemon are things that his actual fans hate, I was never into Sansa at all she's always honestly bothered me and even if her story is interesting her character isn't to me, I don't know what y'all see in book!Rhaenyra at all, book!Tyrion I kinda get but he's just so misogynistic, a good chunk of the side characters are people that I don't get the hype for but there are also some side characters that I adore that I'm sure people would side-eye, one of my favorite characters in ASOIAF is fucking Aeron Damphair and I'm sure a lot of people find that odd.

Also Rhaegar. Do not get the hype around Rhaegar. He sucks so bad, why does anyone like him? Like, no matter which side you're on in anything, even Robert's Rebellion, you should hate him anyway because he shafted everyone and he's awful and gross and nasty and if I have to hear one more character crow about how he was God's gift to Westeros I will get one of those "reality shifter" kids on TikTok to take me there myself so that I can cave his chest in with a giant hammer. Fuck Rhaegar Targaryen, all the bitches hate Rhaegar Targaryen.

[atopvisenyashill]

What Rhaella and Aerys were genderbent? Cause it seems unlikely that a male Rhaella would ever be friends with Tywin Lannister or make him his hand while female Aerys probably wouldn't be friends with Joanna or the Princess of Dorne. And I doubt Rhaella was at all obsessed with blood purity like Aerys was so Steffon and Cassana likely live, and a male Rhaella would most likely be a much more benevolent king than Aerys was and would not tolerate Rhaegar treating Elia so poorly and would be furious with the whole Lyanna thing.

okay huge caveat here that i am an angry working class anarchist at my core. but the thing you gotta understand is that

the prophecy still exists that the heir comes from aerys and rhaella's line

even second born, a male rhaella lives a wildly different and INFINITELY more privileged life than normal rhaella

a female aerys is not gonna be allowed to do the shit male aerys does

Female Aerys would absolutely still be friends with Joanna - yeah yeah Joanna was considered the ~love in Tywin, but Tywin is simply not gonna fall in love with a woman with no backbone, look at his own daughter and his sister for examples. Joanna was likely just as full of herself and probably still plenty cruel as a woman was possibly allowed to be. Loreza/Princess of Dorne might be a stretch due to Aerys' racism but a) we don't know why Loreza became lady to the Queen and b) Aerys was smart enough to realize that Dorne was politically useful even if he was racist about it, that's why Elia married Rhaegar (or one of the reasons anyway). Not a stretch to say girl Aerys has them both as ladies, which puts Elia and Tywin in boy Rhaella's circles. MAYBE however, you switch out Loreza for a Celtigar or a Tarth lady since they also have Valyrian blood.

But barring all that - even with a slightly more even temper and a less extreme reaction to Duskendale, a male Rhaella is born believing he is practically a god amongst men, that a prophecied hero will be born from his line, and that he is entitled to and owed his sister's body. That will do a number on ANYONE especially if he's being pushed by his much more paranoid sister into doing stupid shit. I think a male Rhaella is likely to be a very middling type ruler on par with like, the Viserys' or Jaehaerys II. Not bad, not good, just kinda there. And since even our great Aegon the Unlikely couldn't keep his brats in line, it seems unlikely Rhaella will keep Rhaegar in line. If BOTH of them are obsessed with the prophecy? Bad news. Even if Rhaella disapproves of Rhaegar kidnapping the daughter of a Lord Paramount, she is NOT about to declare the crown prince a traitor. Look at the way Viserys II dealt with Aegon IV literally attempting to rape Naerys to death.

I'm not saying Rhaella is a bad person, but Rhaella is very much informed by her suffering, her gender, and her circumstances. Ultimately, Rhaella decides to crown Viserys in lieu of brokering a deal with the Rebels. So ultimately, a Rhaella without a history of being abused on the basis of her gender is likely to act like any other monarch would when faced with a Rebellion no matter how valid - crush it! She's not gonna burn Rickard and Brandon alive, but when faced with the decision of choosing between her lords or her heir and the very sanctity of the crown to be able to do what it wants, she's gonna choose the crown. The rebellion is probably less of a violent conflict under her, but my money is on a lot of unrest - and no way in FUCK are Robert, Brandon, and Rickard gonna follow Rhaegar after he made off with and forcibly impregnated Lyanna. I truly don't think the Rebellion can be avoided; put off for a while maybe, turned into a less violent conflict. But ultimately the Lords - and even some of the smallfolk! - are sick of the Targaryens and their weird ass ways. Aegon IV and Daeron II actively tried to make things better and several wars started over this. That's just how monarchies are - eventually, those bitches get their heads chopped off and its a miracle it doesn't happen sooner.

[janiedean]

10 year prompts: FAIRY TALE AU FOR STANNIS E DAVOS <3 If any of your other OTPs acts as a background/helpers "because they have been there" it would be lovely, especially since they are all different takes on the Beauty and the Beast story. But also because it would be really fun to see idk, Sandor trying to give Davos dating advice "as someone who was in Stannis position before". Thank you so much for accepting prompts!

HELLO ANON have uh... the pseudo cinderella reverse au of doom that I don't know where it's from, I HOPE YOU LIKE IT pls presume every westeros kingdom is separated for this and same sex marriage is allowed

buy me a coffee | commissions open

1.

"Well, it seems like we are at an impasse, and I need you to fucking compromise," Robert says, and Stannis has to stop himself from gritting his teeth loudly.

"I am not," Stannis replies, "compromising on this."

"You do realize," Robert says, "that -"

"That according to whichever stupid law your precious Westeros council still hasn't managed to change when they have damned well should -"

"You know it's not a priority -"

"Of course for the seven of you it's not a priority," Stannis groans, "but I do know that if I don't get married Renly can't marry his precious Loras Tyrell either, and for the umpteenth time, as I did compromise years ago and I had to marry someone I didn't even like and who didn't like me and we all know how it ended up, you can forget I will compromise on marrying the first person you find suitable especially when I'm not sure they would be kind to my daughter, and I'm not making that mistake again."

"Oh, come on, you're being unreasonable -"

"Robert, no woman in Westeros actually wants someone with my background and I'm not subjecting my daughter to someone who hates her, and I'm not backing down on that."

"And what if I found some woman who did?"

"I am not marrying anyone I don't like. Not anymore." He's going to stand his ground on that. He hasn't done that for his entire life and both his brothers always ended up ahead of him and he didn't even complain because it was his duty, but -

But now he's not doing that.

Robert sighs. "Do you hate your brother that much?"

"I accepted someone I didn't like once, Robert. And it's not just me anymore now."

Robert sighs louder. "All right, all right. Let's say I strike a deal with bloody Rhaegar Targaryen and he lends me the ballroom in King's Landing, I throw a ball for your hand and you choose whoever you want?"

"No one is going to show up at a ball for me," Stannis grits out. "Do you really want to humiliate me that much?"

"You can choose," Robert says, "as long as you fucking get married. Take it or leave it or I choose someone for you. I'm not letting a Tyrell alliance go to waste because you're too stubborn."

Stannis really doesn't want to agree with this, but.

But if he doesn't agree it's just going to be worse after, and at this point he might as well try to make the best out of it.

"Whatever," he says, "fine."

Out of whoever goes to this fucking ball, maybe there will be someone halfway decent.

Maybe.

2.

Well, Davos thinks, couldn't be faulted for trying, even if he hadn't exactly predicted dying in an execution on the damned public square because fucking Randyll Tarly decided that since some fucking stupid royal ball is happening each single criminal has to be dealt with swiftly.

Also, he was an idiot to get caught, but then again, it's not like he was given a trial or anything and him asking for one had made the arse laugh and say to not waste his precious time, so he supposes he is going to get hanged on the public square.

To think that he's managed to be a smuggler without getting caught for years and now he's here because -

"Lord Tarly," someone says just as Davos gets dragged in front of the noose, "what is this about now?"

"My lord," Tarly says with... somewhat distaste. Davos dares looking ahead. The other guy is... definitely a lord, dressed finely in black and just a smish of gold embroidered in his clothing, but at least it's sober. Definitely a few years younger than Davos, has to be around thirty at most, and while he's not what you'd call astonishing in a man, Davos can't help noticing that he has a nice pair of blue eyes, though they're steely as they look at Tarly as if he's nowhere near pleased with any of this circus. Certainly Davos is not, either. "This man was caught committing a foul deed and I don't want criminals running around with the occasion you know of is looming, so if you'd let me do your job -"

"And what was this foul deed we're talking about?"

"I do not see why we have to discuss -"

"Because," the other lord replies, "the occasion that is looming is supposedly for my own benefit and I would like to know and I do not like to see people killed for something potentially useless. So?"

Tarly shrugs. "Very well. He got caught stealing food, a lot of it, and then it turned out he was a notorious smuggler we have been looking for for a long time, so -"

"So he only ever smuggled goods and stole food? And why did you steal that food?"

It takes Davos one second to realize that the lord is talking to him.

He clears his throat.

"There's a family living next door to me in Flea Bottom," Davos says. "I was friends with the father. He - died recently. Couldn't make enough gold to feed all of them so he gave up on his own food, he worked at the port and died helping unloading a ship." That was bringing Dornish wine for whichever feast they're holding at the palace. "His wife didn't have anything to eat, either. I stole some bread from a bakery near the castle and they caught me."

"I imagine these neighbors of yours haven't eaten that bread now, did they?" The lord asks.

"My lord, you aren't believing him, are -"

"Lord Tarly, kindly let him talk."

Davos shakes his head. "No."

"How many children are you talking about?"

"Five," Davos sighs, wondering how bad they're having it right now.

"I think we should see if he's telling the truth," the lord says.

"Lord Stannis, this is nonsense -"

"I wish to see if he is," the man goes on, "and I would like to remind you, Lord Tarly, that my brother is your sovereign, so how about we do that and see if he's lying or not?"

If anything, I'll get to live a little longer.

Davos leads the way and throughout the entire trip, Lord Stannis does not talk or say anything, just looks ahead with gritting teeth, and when he sees that Davos was, in fact, not lying, he shakes his head, mutters something about Robert and everyone else not having their priorities straight and then shakes his head again.

"Lord Tarly," he says, "get someone to give these people some food. They're bloody starving. And he wasn't lying - that woman kept on singing his praises and honestly, again, he's a criminal but he's never killed anyone, or has he?"

"Not that we know of," Tarly says.

"What's your name?" Lord Stannis asks, and wait, is he talking directly to him for the second time, this is just - no single lord in existence ever looks at commoners this way, as far as he knows -

"Davos Seaworth," he says, "my lord."

"Well, as far as I can see here, you only ever stole and you were trying to do something decent and - never quite mind that. I think," he goes on, "that no one should hang and he swears to not commit crimes anymore and since he still should be punished, he loses the joints in his left hand for that and that's all there is to it."

"But -" Lord Tarly tries to object.

"What do you say?" Lord Stannis asks.

"That I would take that one deal in a heartbeat," Davos replies.

"Well then," Lord Stannis says, "I proposed it, I will do it myself so that no golden cloak of Lord Tarly's gets ideas about taking your whole hand."

Davos decides that it's wildly beyond his expectations, and nods.

He asks to keep the bones.

Lord Stannis looks at him as if he doesn't know why he would but he can, for all he cares, and Tarly's sour face is enough to make Davos forget the pain he feels when the sharp knife goes down almost instantly.

Lord Stannis tells him to try and behave properly from now and leaves muttering something about just wanting to go back to Storm's End, and -

Davos needs to know more.

The moment his fingertips don't bleed anymore and he has the bones safely stored in a pouch, he grabs his old cloak and heads for the tavern where everyone from the golden cloaks and the court hangs out.

Maybe he can find out more about who that one lord is, because sure as the Seven Hells he never ran into one like that.

3.

The last thing he expects to find when he starts asking around the inn is that Sandor Clegane sits down in front of him.

If anything because the man shouldn't even hang around here - last he checked, he hasn't since he stopped going by that Hound nickname and ended up married to the Warden of the North's daughter somehow, and he doesn't even live in King's Landing anymore, but apparently he is, and - well. Davos had seen him around, back in the day. Now he looks... happier, he thinks. Not as angry. And those scars on his face haven't changed but his face looks somehow softer than before.

"I heard," he says, "you're askin' around about bloody Stannis Baratheon."

Oh, Davos thinks, so that was why Lord Tarly was that deferring to him. He could have gotten there when Stannis told him his brother was Lord Tarly's king, but - well. He hadn't been paying that much attention.

"Well," Davos says, "he made sure I didn't end up hanged and he just - I never knew any lord like that."

"Believe me, not many lords are like that one." Clegane takes a sip of ale, then shrugs. "Well, what did you need to know?"

"Just, shouldn't he be in the Stormlands? And what's this occasion thing that was for him that Lord Tarly was ranting about?"

"... You don't know, but of fucking course you wouldn't," Sandor shrugs, "it's not like they'd announce shit in Flea Bottom. Well, you know the royal ball they're holding at the Red Keep tomorrow?"

"Yes?"

"That's for him to pick someone he wants to marry," Clegane shrugs, "and he hates every second of it, not that anyone could blame his sorry ass."

"... Explain," Davos says. That just doesn't fucking make sense.

"I'll make it short," Clegane shrugs, "but he married this... lady Florent something some ten years ago 'cause his brother picked her for him and apparently he's the only one in that family who gets the short straw about everyfuckingthing. And when they went for the bedding they found Robert in bed with some other woman."

"His marriage bed?"

"Well, yeah," Clegane goes on, "and then they had a daughter but she was born with grayscale so half of her face is scarred, her mother fell in with some witch from Asshai and decided that her daughter was an abomination and turned out she wanted to burn her alive, long story short when it happened of course he broke off the marriage and I have no idea where the fuck she ended, but since then he hasn't had anyone offer their daughter's hand. Because everyone thinks he's dull and he said that even if he had a son with another woman he'd consider his daughter his heir or anyway he wouldn't let her get the fucking short straw, too, and like, while a second Baratheon son is not fucking little, he has no offers. But now it looks like he has to get fucking married or his younger brother can't marry bloody Loras Tyrell, either, and they came to that ball compromise. If you wonder how I know all of this, my lady wife spent the entire trip to King's Landing from Winterfell sharing about that and saying that it was a pity poor Stannis never got his good love story, so there's fucking that."

"And the ball's point is...?"

"That if he likes anyone he meets he gets to pick his bride. Or whatever the fuck else."

Davos nods. "I see," he says. "And you're saying people think he's dull?"

Clegane shrugs again. "I mean, I don't personally give a fuck and I think he's all right, but his brothers are both... more suited for fucking court, I guess. And he obviously hates court. And he says he won't have anyone who won't accept his daughter, which means whoever shows up will be really desperate daughters of minor lords. Does this satisfy your questions?"

"It does," Davos says, looking down at his hand.

"Wait," Clegane says, "he did that?"

"The alternative was Lord Tarly hanging me, Ser," Davos replies.

"I'm not one and good fucking riddance to me. Huh." He looks at Davos, and Davos holds the stare, wishing he knew what the man was thinking, and then -

"You want to go to that ball, don't you."

It's not posed as a question.

Davos swallows. "I mean," he says, "I - if he had been some knight or not a fucking lord I'd have... tried to talk to him, I guess. I just - he didn't seem stuck-up like the others. And he did save my life. But please, and how would I even get in there? I'm a fucking smuggler and I was born and bred in Flea Bottom of all places, certainly I am not invited."

"No," Sandor replies, "but - ah, fucking bugger it to the seven hells and back, I've been in his place."

"Lord Stannis's?"

"Yes," he says, "as in, I thought no one would ever look at me like that, except that it happened and you are sort of having that look while thinking about him, and I highly doubt he wants a fucking princess or whatever."

What in the Seven Hells - Davos thinks, but then Clegane half-smiles, the scarred side of his mouth curling up in what looks a damned genuine grin, and -

"You're a smuggler, aren't you?"

"Uh, yes?" Davos replies. "Even if I guess I shouldn't risk it anymore, should -"

"Think you can be at that small bay near the kitchens tomorrow at this hour?"

"I - I could?"

"Be there," Clegane says, "I absolutely want to see the fucking faces of all those arses after."

"After what?"

"You'll find out," the man says, and then stands up and leaves.

He looks cheerful.

What the fucking fuck, Davos thinks, and then decides that he has nothing to lose. He can be there tomorrow.

4.

He expects Clegane to be there.

Instead -

"Davos Seaworth?" A tall, blonde woman with very pretty blue eyes, a nose that was broken twice and shoulders worthy of a knight tells him - she's dressed in good male garb, and she has a knife at her hip, but she doesn't sound hostile.

"Uh, yes," he says, "lady...?"

"Brienne of Tarth," she introduces herself and wait -

"Aren't you - Ser Jaime Lannister's -"

"Yes," she interrupts him, "and Sandor told me to come get you and believe me, I was much glad to because that ball is a stupid farce and I get why Stannis would hate it and I have my reasons to want to have a laugh at everyone else's antics. Do follow me," she says, and leads him through some tunnel going inside the castle from the small cave nearby.

Davos tries to remember how the hell she got married to Lannister - it was pretty talked about in the city, back in the day. He still was in the Kingsguard and she had been in Renly Baratheon's following and they ended up fighting in some tourney and they tied and two weeks later he had resigned from the Kingsguard somehow - his sister, the Queen regent, hadn't apparently been happy but Rhaegar Targaryen agreed to it, so Davos supposes he had some leverage - and they eloped on Tarth and he's halfway sure Tywin Lannister still has his son disowned for that, or half-disowned, but he still obviously is invited to courtly events. Davos has no fucking clue how nobles do this, but he follows Brienne thought a few more tunnels until she leads him out and into a corridor and into a small but richly furnished room.

"Right," she says, "just... wait a bit here. And - well. I, uh, didn't know your Lord Stannis much before we... ended up talking to each other a while ago, and - I get where he's been and no one wants to be the center of a feast where they know they're going to be laughed at. So, I'm pretty sure he will be relieved."

"Of what?"

"You'll know shortly," she half-smiles, and then closes the door.

What the fuck, Davos thinks for the umpteenth time, and a few moments later the door opens.

Now.

Davos has heard of Jaime Lannister enough to know on sight that the blonde man coming through the door is him, and the younger girl on the side with bright auburn hair and blue eyes - oh. She has a Stark sigil on her dress. Is she -

"Lady Sansa," Lannister says, "your husband wasn't lying, was he?"

"No," she smiles back, "but this is going to be good."

"My lord," Davos stammers, "my lady. Uh, what is this about?"

"Oh," Sansa replies, grinning, "it's about getting you to that ball. Ser," she tells Lannister, "mind instructing him while I find him the right clothing?"

"Absolutely," Lannister smiles wider.

Seven fucking hells, Davos thinks, I'm never going to survive this.

5.

"See," Lannister goes on, "when Clegane told me that he thought you might want to go to the ball because you actually did like Stannis we about all fainted in our little corner of no one thoughts we should have married the way we did so we'll leave you alone, but honestly, the guy pretty much does his brother's job because Robert doesn't really give a damn about being a decent ruler, then he pretty much gave up everything he wanted for either of his brothers and they never said thanks and he was one of the few idiots who when I, uh, resigned, said I should be able to." He shrugs. "Also, he was nicer to Brienne than his actual brother that she wanted to swear herself to, so. I kind of owe him and his daughter is a nice girl. She doesn't deserve a shit stepmother."

"And you all decided that I am the solution to the problem?" Davos asks from behind a screen where he's trying on the clothes Sansa brought him after she got a bath brought over to the room and he had to hear Lannister giving him tips to get through the ball while he was washing.

"You're here and you're thanking the guy for having cut off your finger joints, please. And no one cares where you come from - at least the four of us - and he certainly won't. Come on, out of that screen."

Davos sighs and does, and Sansa does whistle a bit. "Told you," she says, "they'd fit."

"Oh, they do," Lannister replies, and tells Davos to go look at himself in the mirror near the window.

Davos does, and -

Well. He felt out of place dressed in fine dark green silks with golden embroideries and a velvet brown coat, but it does fit him, and the black new leather boots Sansa got him are the best shoes he's ever worn, and now that he could get a good cleaning - well. He's still himself, but he's pretty sure half of his friends wouldn't recognize him.

"Take this," Lannister says, handing him a sword. "Now, what could the story be - oh, he's some hedge knight I met while killing bandits with Brienne and we thought to invite him?"

"Sounds good," Sansa nods, "and you could invite him. He probably shouldn't say he's from King's Landing, though."

"Absolutely not," Lannister agrees. "Hm. How about Cape Wrath?"

"Better," she nods, "though I suppose his real name shouldn't come out."

"No," Lannister shakes his head. "Ser, choose one. Oh, should he be a bastard? Imagine their faces."

"I think we should absolutely go for that," she grins back. "So, a name?"

"Uh, Allard?" Davos blurts his father's name, may his soul rest in peace.

"Allard Storm, sounds good," Lannister grins. "Well, you're a hedge knight, you met me and my lady wife while chasing bandits and we invited you because why the hell not," he says. "I hope you can dance, Seaworth."

"... I don't think so," Davos replies. "I mean, I never did."

Maybe he should have lied.

Maybe he'd have spared himself those two actually teaching him on the spot.

When he's pushed out of the room a while later, he doesn't know what the fuck he's doing here, but -

But he still doesn't want to run away.

Fuck, what did I get myself into? He asks himself, and then walks on anyway.

6.

“I should have never agreed to this farce,” Stannis whispers as he sloshes wine he knows he won’t drink in his glass.

Good thing he’s telling Brienne of Tarth that and not anyone else, because he thinks no one else in this room would understand how it feels - she nods, and thankfully she doesn’t argue about it.

But what should she argue? Each single lady who came looked at him like her father forced her here, it’s a ball in his name and he’s technically not danced with anyone yet, not that he would want to, Renly and Loras meanwhile are doing it and everyone is looking at them anyway, which... is exactly what he knew was going to happen. Never mind his daughter who asked him fifteen times if they really had to participate and he thinks wasn’t openly laughed at yet just because anyone who might has been properly scolded by their lordly parents on that one topic, but the last time he saw her she was standing miserably to the side.

“I’ve been there,” she says, “and I wouldn’t want to be in your position ever again anyway. But -” She clears her throat, “I think that you might change your mind.”

“Oh, and how?”

“Jaime, uh, he made a friend the other day. While we were out checking the woods.”

“And?”

“And he invited him along. I think that you might... well. Like him. Or at least not be thoroughly bored.”

“At least,” Stannis sighs, and really, he doesn’t begrudge her for having found better than his damned brother, because she did deserve it as much as he’d have never bet a coin on Jaime Lannister of everyone being anyone’s ideal partner, but still, this entire exercise is just reminding him of how much no one actually would want him even for... companionship, if nothing else, and -

Why did he even agree to this bloody farce, he really wishes -

“Oh, here they are,” she says, and yes, Lannister is apparently arguing with - Lord Varys, seven hells, of course he was in charge of vetoing who was allowed in, and there’s a man next to him, indeed, but he has a hood over his head - a nice velvet coat without too many pretenses, so he can’t see his face, but then it seems like Lannister has his way and manages to get the man in, and then he whispers something his way and - comes over to the both of them?

“Stannis,” he smiles, entirely too gloating about it, “it’s your event and you let your brother steal the spotlight?”

“What do you think even happened?” Stannis sighs back - he’s not even going to antagonize him.

“I see I have to do everything tonight. Brienne, fancy making sure that people stop only having eyes for Renly while he mingles?”

“I fancy,” she grins, and of course she does, the room usually starts whispering the moment they dance together since she’s never not led and it’s apparently worth whispering about, and so when they’re off, Stannis sighs and walks to the side, figuring he will try to make an effort and talk to anyone who will -

And then he sees that Lannister’s mysterious friend is talking to his daughter and she’s smiling at him before running off somewhere - oh, where Tyrion Lannister is lounging, Stannis notices, and what -

“Ser,” he clears his throat, moving closer, “would it be too much if I asked you how you got my daughter to - do that?” He blurts, hating how awkward he sounds -

“I told her,” the man replies, and wait, isn’t the voice familiar, “that she looked very lonely, she explained me how she loathed this feast and I suggested her that she might want to talk to someone who likes what she does, and Ser Jaime has told me enough about his brother to know they might have something to discuss. But I am hardly a ser, my lord.”

Stannis glances down at the man’s left hand while the man pulls down the hood.

Oh.

Oh.

He’s - he doesn’t have the finger joints on his left hand.

He’s -

“I see you understood,” the man - what was his name, Davos Seaworth - says.

“I might,” Stannis replies, “and may I inquire how you’re here?”

He’ll be thrice fucked if Davos didn’t... sort of flush under his beard. Which... looks a lot better now that it’s well-groomed, and then a pair of warm brown eyes meets his own, and -

“I asked around who you might be, since no one else in your place would have actually insisted to save the life of... well. A common criminal, let’s put it like that. And I met someone who decided that I sounded entirely too interested and I should attend the ball and they helped me sneak in, and I never felt like it was a mistake, so... sounds like I am here. But if you don’t wish me to -”

“Please,” Stannis shakes his head, feeling slightly dizzy, “no one until now made me feel like they actually weren’t forced to be here and... you went through all that effort to just... talk to me peer to peer? Or, well. The closest one might get to it.”

“I thought I’d just want to thank you in person,” Davos replies, “but now that I’m here, I think I’d like to stay a while, and not just for the good food. Fancy taking a stroll out, my lord? Unless you’d rather watch your brother seethe.”

“Renly is doing what,” Stannis replies, and turns to look at the scene -

Well.

Renly is seething because everyone is whispering about Brienne twirling Jaime Lannister around the floor like she was born to do that. He shouldn’t be smiling. But maybe he is, a tiny bit.

“Sorry,” he says, shaking his head, “I shouldn’t, but - well.”

“I won’t judge people for being petty,” Davos replies, “but - is there a reason why?”

Stannis shrugs. “Well, he kind of hates that he hasn’t managed to... be officially with his intended because of me, and he never fails to remind me that everyone thinks me dull in comparison to him, and I never quite forgot that he once said it would be a miracle if I’d find anyone who’d take my daughter because of her face, so. Well. If Brienne is upstaging him, I’ll live with it.”

Davos looks at him, then at the rest of the room.

“I see,” he says, “and I can’t blame you. She was perfectly nice with me.”

“I don’t doubt that,” Stannis says, “but - maybe I would like that stroll.” What is he even saying -

“Then we should,” Davos replies, half-smiling, and he looks so damned kind -

What the hell is happening?

7.

The hell, Stannis realizes, is that he actually does like this man.

They just - they just talked while music came faintly from the outside, and it’s probably sad that it’s novel experience to talk to someone who actually seems to give a damn about what he has to say and listens to him except Davos actually does, and when Davos talks about how he ended up becoming a criminal and almost hanged he kind of can’t help feeling guilty when he looks down at the man’s left hand.

Fucking Seven Hells, he might be a smuggler, but when someone tells you well where I came from it was a struggle to put any food on the table at all and with my first smuggling job when I was fourteen I could pay for it for a month can you even blame them for not having looked back and found an honest job?

He thinks about how he never had to worry about his next meal.

“I think I have to apologize to you,” he says quietly when Davos finishes telling him about how he couldn’t sleep at night hearing those starving children wail.

“... You don’t,” Davos replies, shaking his head.

“I do,” Stannis goes on. “I mean... I still think stealing is a crime and crimes should be punished or - or what else makes sense, but when one hears your circumstances... I feel like I should have just have you swear you wouldn’t live that life anymore. I could. And instead -”

“Oh, you made sure I didn’t lose an entire hand or hang, and we both know Lord Tarly wouldn’t have been happy with just letting me go. I can appreciate fair play, my lord, and I mean, I did commit crimes. I did keep the bones, anyway.”

“You - did?”

Davos nods towards... oh. A small pouch that he has hanging around his neck. Stannis hadn’t noticed it before, but -

“I decided I’d keep them in memory of the one time one lord was actually fair to me, but then - then I met Clegane and he told me to show up here. Also... shouldn’t someone have looked for us by now?”

It’s been a while. The music is still playing. No one did.

He shakes his head. “As if they’d care,” he says, “most likely they were just waiting for me to leave so they could stop pretending to be nice.”

Davos just looks at him, and then he swallows, and -

“Beg your pardon if this is too forward,” he asks, “but maybe my lord fancies dancing somewhere not in front of all those people?”

“I - I don’t generally do that,” Stannis replies. Why is his heart beating faster?

“Oh, I don’t dance to that kind of music either, but who is going to see us?”

Stannis has slipped his hand into Davos’s before he can think on it.

What am I even doing, he thinks, noticing how the other man’s hands are roughened - he took away the gloves and he can feel how the right one is all clean but calloused skin and the left has fresh scarring on the joints, but they hold his own so very gently, and -

And neither of them is really good at this, because he hasn’t danced in years and Davos is obviously winging it based on what he saw in the hall, but it’s nice, and twirling around the garden without anyone staring at him feels nice, and when he looks at Davos’s kind, warm brown eyes his stomach flips over again, and -

“This - this is nice,” he finally admits.

“It... it is,” Davos says back, and he’s half-smiling and - “If this is the first and last time I get to be at a royal ball, I’m not going to think it wasted time at all.”

Gods, gods, why the idea that he wouldn’t see him again is making him feel like the ground will fall open under his feet and swallow him whole?

“What if I don’t want it to be?” He finds himself saying, and Davos gasps at it.

“... Really?”

“Really,” he says, feeling like his head is spinning and he can’t stop talking, “never mind that - no one I know managed to make my daughter happy like that talking to her once. And - that was one of the conditions I had for Robert. That I wouldn’t... be with anyone who’d treat her poorly.”

“Why would anyone? She’s a lovely girl,” Davos replies, and oh, if he knew.

“You saw her. And her mother wanted to burn her alive. Not many people agree with you.”

“Then most people are idiots,” Davos replies, “if I may be so bold.”

“You may,” Stannis replies, and they’re still swinging, and - “You may be as bold as you like.”

He doesn’t know how he said that. He doesn’t even know where that comes from.

What he knows is that Davos’s mouth is on his the moment after and -

And he’s fucking kissing back the moment it happens and had he been hoping for it? Gods maybe he had, and the few times he kissed Selyse were nothing like this, she never - it never felt like she wanted to actually do it and Davos does, there is no fucking way he doesn’t, and his tongue is slipping into Stannis’s mouth and he groaned into it, oh fuck -

“Stannis, where the fuck did you end up?”

Oh, damn it, that was Robert -

They break apart and Stannis is about to tell Davos to just stay and that he’ll deal with it, but then other people talk and -

“Damn,” Davos says, “that’s Lord Tarly, and he will recognize me.”

... He would, Stannis realizes, and -

“Oh, fuck,” Davos says, and then he takes the pouch with the bones from his neck and slams it into Stannis’s palm and -

“If you want me to come back,” Davos replies, half-smiling, “you just have to bring them back to me. You know where I live, my lord.”

“I - I do,” Stannis whispers.

“Then - then I hope to see you soon, my lord. If not... I’m not regretting that you’ll get to keep that.”

And then he’s gone and Robert and his fucking search group have shown up a moment later.

“What were you even doing out here?” Robert asks. “You know that you have to choose a wife before the feast is over?”

Oh, fuck him and fuck them all, Stannis thinks.

“About that,” he says, “I think I know. But I can tell you when we go back in.”

It’s going to be a goddamned problem, he knows, but -

But.

He’s almost never trusted his gut his entire life and it only ever brought him trouble, and now he wants to, and -

And.

And he knows.

8.

“You’re not marrying a criminal!” Robert explodes later, when the hall has been emptied except for them, Renly, his daughter, Lord Tarly, the present Tyrells, Starks and Lannisters and of course Rhaegar Targaryen and the members of the small council, but he seems to be uninterested in how this ends one way or the other.

“I said I could choose whoever I wanted, didn’t you?” He stares back.

“I didn’t mean a damned criminal, Stannis! And how did a commoner even get in here? Lannister, what were you thinking?”

Jaime Lannister merely shrugs, half-grinning while his father looks at him like he’s a lost cause. His sister... Stannis isn’t even going to think about that. “That he looked and sounded like someone he’d like and so I invited him. Sure, we did tell him to not introduce himself with his real name, for obvious reasons, but -”

“A bloody commoner, Lannister!”

“Oh,” Lannister shrugs, “and so what? He stole some things. He never harmed anyone as far as we knew. You could have worse brothers in law.”

“Are you bloody serious - Stannis, please, no way -”

“And why?” He counteracts. “I am not interested in having any more children,” he goes on, “I do have an heir, and he would certainly not try to make sure she stops being that, and I wanted someone she’d like too, and I think she did, or -”

“I did,” she replies quietly, and Robert rolls his eyes.

“Shireen, this man is a smuggler, your father isn’t reasoning -”

“Well,” she says, “I have talked to him once and he was nicer than just about anyone else at the feast. Or - well. I don’t think I should say.”

“Shireen, you can.”

“I don’t think I can tell you. It wouldn’t be polite. And you would be sad.”

“Let’s say,” Lannister says, “that she can tell me in all confidence outside the room and I can come back with the answer if it’s something that could be shared?” 

Stannis should be worried that Shireen seems fine with that, but then again he’s the brother of the guy who entertained her for half of the feast, right? And why would she think he would be sad?

Anyway. Lannister brings her out of the room, and then comes back and -

“I told her she could go find my brother,” he says, and oh, the youngest Lannister did flee the premises while they were arguing, “and - well. Renly,” he says, “honestly, she said that the criminal commoner was nicer to her in five minutes than you’ve ever been your entire life, maybe you should think about that sometimes.”

Oh

Of course -

At least Renly has the grace to look ashamed, and Robert groans again, and -

Ah, seven hells.

“Robert,” he says, “this entire farce was to make sure I would find anyone suitable so Renly could have his lavish wedding and whatnot. You said I could choose anyone. I happen to have chosen. If my daughter likes him, too, even better, and honestly, you are the king, Renly will have the Tyrell alliance and certainly my daughter won’t be your heir, so what do you care? People will talk and decide I lost my wits, and would that be any news? Just stop being unreasonable.”

Robert stares at him, and then -

“Seven hells,” he sighs, “you never stood up that much for anything in your life as much as - whatever this is. Fucking - ah, well, I suppose I can just find some way to make sure the three of you aren’t around court too much.”

“Believe me, both Shireen and I would be thoroughly pleased,” Stannis says, and then Robert raises his hands to the ceiling.

“Whatever. Go ahead, find this guy, as long as I can move forward with the other damned wedding.”

“Why, thank you, extremely kind of you, Your Grace,” he says, and then he turns on his heel and gets out of the room.

He’s not surprised when Lannister follows him. “Should I tell my brother to keep your daughter entertained for a while longer?”

“Please,” he says, “and I don’t know how much I have to thank you, but -”

“Just go get the guy and remember that Brienne’s father is only too glad to host her friends on Tarth. He’s exceedingly glad she has some,” he winks, and then goes to - find his brother and Shireen, he supposes, and -

“My lord,” Sandor Clegane says, appearing suddenly at his right as he gets out of the castle, “you need an escort to Flea Bottom, mayhaps?”

“I don’t even want to know how you knew,” he sighs, and stops asking himself why apparently is there some kind of conspiracy to help him out with - whatever this is.

He also doesn’t want to know how Clegane says he knows the way when Stannis asks him if he remembers how to get to the house he visited a few days ago.

9.

Davos had half expected the knock on the door.

He hadn’t been sure it would happen, but -

He’s nowhere near surprised when he opens it and Stannis is there with Sandor Clegane in the background winking at him and then making himself scarce.

“This place is a lot fouler by night than by day, if possible,” Stannis says, walking into Davos’s one-room shack, not that he could afford any better.

“But you knew that already, my lord, didn’t you?”

“I did,” Stannis whispers, and his eyes look so blue in the candlelight, and then he’s handing Davos back the pouch with the bones - 

“Is it.. I thought it was heavier,” Davos says, taking it.

Stannis shrugs, lifting up his cloak. He has a similar pouch tied to his waist.

What -

“I took the liberty to split it,” he whispers, “if - if it’s not a problem.”

“It’s not,” Davos says, “but does it mean that -”

“My brother has agreed to... my choice, if we lay low. But I think that it woudn’t be a problem. And - I never do things not overthinking them. But - my daughter likes you, and I like you, and honestly, no one would have gone through the effort you did just to... talk to me or whatever, and -  this is, if -”

“Yes,” Davos interrupts.

“Wait, yes?”

“I can’t believe I actually am saying it myself, but of course. I do.. quite like you, my lord.”

“Well, if we are to be... to be, maybe you can do away with that?”

“I could be persuaded,” Davos says, and he leans in and they’re kissing again and this time is slower and Stannis’s hand is slightly trembling as he touches the back of his hair and he’s not even wearing his fine clothes now, he put them away before but Stannis doesn’t seem to care an inch and when he groans into Davos’s mouth again he grasps at the back of his head and -

Well.

He doesn’t know how he’s going to navigate things considering that he can’t even bloody damn well read, but who cares. He’ll learn. He just -

He likes Stannis, damn it, and he wants to see it through, and if it means they’ll have to lay low because other lords are damned stupid, who cares.

10.

“Well,” Jaime says, “we can expect a lot of gossip.”

“In what sense?” Brienne replies, wishing she didn’t have to reply to ravens when they’re on Tarth, but his father insists that she does because she’ll take his place one day.

“My brother writes me that Shireen Baratheon writes him that she’s never been happier now that they’re at that castle in Cape Wrath, that she’s taught Seaworth to read admirably well and she has a lot of fun with that and that she’s delighted because he is actually a thoroughly nice guy and her father is happy and she’s never seen him happy before, they didn’t go to Renly’s wedding and they didn’t miss it at all and apparently everyone in town is happy they’re there because they don’t have to go to Robert for inquiries or asking anything and Sannis is a lot fairer than Robert was anyway, and no one is actually dying of hunger in there anymore, so I guess that they’re doing well - oh, this is golden.”

“What is golden?”

“That Robert is of course not taking a wife until Lyanna Stark capitulates to his courting but he’s certainly having children here and there, so he’s sending some of them to their place and I think they have what, two of them there, and Shireen is delighted because she finally has some company, and imagine that, Sansa Stark came visiting there with her husband and sister once because I suppose she wanted to see how well her matchmaking had worked and her sister is smitten with one of said bastard sons. And they had to lay low, imagine that,” he laughs. “Well, when were they supposed to visit?”

“A month from now?”

“There’s going to be so much gossip,” he keeps on muttering, and she lets him - he has all the reasons to gloat about it.

She smiles to herself as she takes another raven and starts penning it - she might as well send them some more congratulations before they come visit.

After all, after they became friendly, she did hope that he’d find someone he would be happy with same as she did instead of always staying in Renly’s shadow, which she’d have been happy with herself... before realizing she deserved better.

She’s really glad he did.

And she can’t wait to host them too - if they got the happy ending, no point in not celebrating it, isn’t it?

[hellsbellschime]

I agree Dany and Jon being pivotal in the fight would mean Rhaegar was right in his actions and I just don't see it. Just like Targaryen restoration making Robert's Rebellion pointless, when it is one of the most just cause for a fight, which is why it'll never happen. I think part of the problem is people think fight against Others is the POINT of Asoiaf so of course "the heroes Jon and Dany" -and for some Tyrion too- must play a big role in this fight. They insist on misunderstanding the Fire & Ice making it about Jon and Dany when Martin point blank said it's Others and Dany with her Dragons and referred to them as threats to Westeros. They also completely ignore numerous times Martin saying what he is interested in a story is not the wars, but characters themselves the whole "human heart in conflict" thing. Fight against Others is important in the sense that it is a plot device to bring people together and see how they react to/handle this threat (sort of like how prophecies themselves not being important but how people react to them is.). I think that fight in the books will even be more anticlimactic than the show, especially for people who reduced the series to that. Fortunately unlike the show Martin never even hyped it, unfortunately though fandom does it on its own.

Exactly, the notion that Rhaegar would be right and it would be his immediate family who was destined to bring the dawn not only does not fit with the history of the entirety of House Targaryen (which has been a pretty exclusively destructive force), but it would make him the first and last person in the whole ass series to actually interpret prophecies correctly. GRRM is so focused on what people believe vs. what is actually true, so the idea that Rhaegar’s belief would cause Robert’s rebellion and cause the near extinction of the Starks and Targaryens, but somehow it was all worth it because his last sister and son actually were destined to save the world seems very off base from standard ASOIAF storytelling. 

I think that the Starks will be vital to defeating the Others, but it will be them and the rest of Westeros, it’s not something that anyone can defeat on their own and a huge running theme with House Stark vs. House Targaryen in general has always been about the Starks working together with everyone vs. the Targaryens consolidating power as much as possible. So once again, Dany and Jon ending the Long Night doesn’t seem super on brand. 

There’s also just the basic setup of the story and the way things tend to go. Epic moments almost never go as people expect them to, and more importantly the notion that everyone can coordinate well and will rally against this one threat with precision is extraordinarily unlikely. The ability to actually communicate and move quickly within this world has always presented a problem, and if the book version is even half as clusterfucky as the show version then at the very least someone significant isn’t going to be in the right place at the right time. And given that Jon and Dany specifically seem to be moving all over the goddamn place as soon as they meet, it seems significantly likely that one or both of them might miss the conflict with the Others. I wouldn’t actually be that shocked if Dany and Cersei and Aegon are still squabbling over the Iron Throne and Jon decides to fuck off because it’s going nowhere, but I feel like if he sticks with her he will at least miss the confrontation at Winterfell and might only make it once they’re already further south. And again, if the Others are an analogy for climate change, it would also make more sense if they essentially sneak up on everyone, like everyone who knows about it sort of puts it off and thinks that something else is more important but then boom the Others are here and now we have to work together and scramble to figure out a solution before we all die. 

The show was very focused on battles and war, and while the books are like that as well to a lesser extent, I agree that it probably isn’t going to be about a literal fight where Arya kills lead White Walker and that’s the end of that. If the Others are a metaphor for a force of nature, well you can’t really fight a force of nature, can you? It wouldn’t surprise me if the end of the Others fight is some kind of a new pact, or if it’s just a simple undoing of the magic that was done to make them. That actually seems like a very reasonable solution given that (at least I believe) the dragons were also made through magic and are now weapons of mass destruction. Another running theme is that when people try to master magic it really goes awry, so undoing the destructive magic seems like an obvious solution. But either way, I just feel like a lot of the foundation blocks for Dany and Jon saving the world from the Others aren’t really there, and there are some significant logical indications that the buildup as the two of them as epic heroes is a false lead. I think that Jon does have a part to play in the wars against ice and fire (after all, sounding the alarm that the Others are a threat is a HUGE thing that Jon is doing, and killing Dany/the master of fire is another huge thing to have done), but I also feel like there are going to be key moments where he fails and other people have to pick up the slack.

[daenerys-targaryen-moved]

But, truly... Narrative-ly speaking, why IS Jon a half Targaryen after all? If there will be a 3rd dragon rider who isn't a Targ, then that wasn't necessary or relevant. If he is still a bastard then his life is just the same. If he is legitimate, then Dany is the real heir anyway and I would hate it if GRRM did the show thing with "THERE'S ALSO A MAN HEIR" drama especially since it's not believable for the masses after FAegon anyway, so what's the point????

I still believe in the three heads of the dragon theory they can pry that from my cold dead hands.

Hopefully GRRM remembers that Aerys made Viserys his heir after fearing that Rhaegar had been turned against him by the Dornish. Hopefully he remembers that after Viserys died, the throne went to his sister. Hopefully GRRM isn’t a dumbass who pulls “He has a cock.”

The thing with book!Jon is that he is very very ambitious. They made show!Jon this...... washed out version of his actual character.

Show!Jon: “You all made me your king, I never wanted it.”

Me, thinking back to how book!Jon dreaming about being Lord of Winterfell: Are you sure about that???

The main five all have their own story and play such very important roles in the plot. Jons entire identity is about him being a bastard. He was miss treated by pretty much everyone except Robb, Arya, Bran and Rickon simply because of his supposed birth status. He was sent to the wall. He was known as Ned Starks bastard. Jon does value his father and his honor (not to the extent of the dumb ass show) and his entire fucking world will be rocked once he finds out he’s not actually Ned Starks biological son. He’s going to be angry. He’s going to be resentful. He’s going to have an identity crisis at the age of 20. If him and Daenerys are together at that point in the series, he’s most likely going to push her away momentarily simply because his entire world is crumbling before his eyes.

Daenerys however, already thinks that there is someone claiming to be her brothers son. Jon and Daenerys will probably be together together at this point in the story, more than allies that is, and she will not be more worried about the throne than she will him. Like Jon, she will be in shock to learn that her lover is her brothers son, but eventually will most likely see it as fate or destiny that the world brought them together.

I don’t think Jon will just full on accept his Targaryen line, like, he’s not going to just put on Targaryen amour saying “with fire and blood!” but he will have to learn to accept both sides of his heritage. Stark and Targaryen. He isn’t Ned Starks son, but he’s Lyanna Starks son, therefore, still a Stark.

I think part of Jons story being that he’s not Ned Starks son is it tells a story that even the most honorable person can lie for someone they love. Ned lied to everyone, his best friend, his king, his wife, his children for years to keep Jon safe from Roberts wrath. He loved his sister so much that he did something not honorable in order to keep her son alive. He couldn’t tell anyone, not even his wife. Because he knew that if he told Cat that Jon is his sisters son, she wouldn’t have treated him as harshly as she did which would have raises suspicion. If it ever got out that Jon was Rhaegars true son, Ned and his family would have been traitors and most likely killed for it. 

It tells the story that the winners truly do write the history books. Robert had told everyone that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped Lyanna when that is further from the truth. It tells the story that even the most honorable person can lie to keep those they love safe.

Anyways I went on a tangent but yeah.

[ashccra]

Okay, let's have 3 salty opinions!

You are all a bunch of enablers, I hope you guys know that.

Okay but first of all these are my opinions I can be totally wrong, it can hurt sensitivities and I hope you guys don’t take it personally. It’s something I have seen through years of being in this hellsite.

For example one of my first rants that I wanted to address is this.. hate towards Rhaegar. I mean don’t get me wrong the dude deserves to be called a cheater because… Well, he cheated on his wife but how many times have I seen people blaming him for Elia’s death? how many times people label him as some sort of fugly monster and the dude only cheated on his wife. I’m not gonna say that’s cool because it is not, nor do I defend nor condone such act but why is no one screaming profanities and calling bag of shit to Robert Baratheon? who constantly cheated on Cersei, beat the shit out of her, even raped her and you all are like Bobby B is a victim, he has done nothing wrong ever in his life. Me with red flags pointing at the direction of what I just said. I mean hate or dislike a character all you want, go ahead and have fun but please, do it so while you also apply some logic to it. Listen, I don’t judge you for having a problematic fave but at least acknowledge the things he has done ( me staring Lovingly at Daario Naharis and his monster-like behavior: I love you, my stupid angry psychopath child ) And this just goes for all genders. Yes, that includes both of you: Catelyn Tully & Lysa Tully.  going back to my previous comment, people naming Rhaegar fuck boy Og while the real OG is elsewhere. *points at the boar impaling a drunk ass king* But hey, you are right in being mad at Rhaegar. Hell, he was so dumb, so fucking dumb he didn’t think shit through like he should and that’s what cost him his life and everyone else. I know I might sound like I am justifying him but I am not, believe me, the most important reason why I like Rhaegar is that my friend plays him beautifully. she gives him a depth that could make Martin weep but truly is just tiresome just people posting over and over again how much Rhaegar Targaryen is as bad as the Doom of Valyria and waiting to get some approval because you dislike him and you call him names. I neam weird flex but okay. If you truly dislike him good for you but just don’t join the new campaign just to get some likes your way, do it because you have good motives and reasons not because someone told you that you should and that also applies to all characters and fandoms.

Secondly: I’m not here to babysit anyone. Rules exist for a reason guys and in them, many roleplayers me included warn others about what we write and what you might encounter. I know I know, sometimes we follow so many blogs but like I for instance always read peoples rules before following them back or start following because I want a safe space for me and I wanna know if this person can get along with me and if their muse is easy to write with. Listen, if you want a safe space you must creat it no one here will do so for you. I have trigger warnings but I cannot nor I will not thousand of tags for other people. I will add those who I  believe might hurt other people especially when I write a character like Ashara Dayne, but it is really damn hard to try to please everyone and people will always be mad at you for not tagging something. So… I say — don’t follow me please HARD BLOCK ME because I’ll keep doing my bullshit. 

Thirdly: When are we all going to acknowledge that there’s a pretty biased agenda when it comes to male and female muses? When are all we going to accept that many female muses have to go through hell and beyond because people think that person only wants to ship ( and listen, what is wrong with that, huh? ) And talking about ships. what is wrong with you guys? since when are we politizing people’s writings? No, never mind do not answer that question, I forgot we have all been doing it for years. Dark topics are taboo and no one can write anything from that view because again some idiot will claim that you fetishize or undermine a victim and glorified their abuser. When you are just writing not trying to get hard/wet. Listen, the community needs to stop or just meditate and think for a moment that it is just FICTIONAL, that none of the stuff written will ever hurt you and if it does, create your safe space use that block button, mute people.

[ragnarssons]

Why is sansa wanting Northern independence such a bad thing? She could have gone at it at differently but she did talk to dany and Jon abt it straight up and they declined her. Why is she the only character not allowed to have wants and desires??

I was all supporting her until she decided that stabbing a member of her own family in the back was “a means to an end”. Jon asked her to keep his secret. He made her promise. You know who else did? Lyanna fucking Stark, begging her brother to protect her son. Jon! And Ned protected his nephew/”son” with his life, going so far as being hated (in some aspects) by his own wife and mocked by half the country because “uwu Ned Stark has a bastard!” He didn’t care about his reputation or his power or how people viewed him, he knew his family was more important than that. Sansa stans seem to ignore than on s7, Daenerys was advised not to go around in Westeros, like riding on horses and all, because as a Targaryen, related to the Mad King - both things that Jon ARE too! - her life was in danger. Because you never know: there still are Baratheon loyalists or even anti Targaryen people, whatever. Sansa - or the writers, idk? - is literally ignoring her brother’s safety, exposing him as a Targaryen to more and more people every minute. Don’t get me started on “well technically it’s Tyrion who snitched!” no it’s Sansa, and D&D say so themselves: she told Tyrion KNOWING he’d tell other people. Jon’s safety in all of that? Seems she didn’t give a fuck! Don’t get me started on her creating discourse around Daenerys and her advisors and Daenerys and Jon (her ALLY) at THAT MOMENT. Why now? Okay she doesn’t want Daenerys on the Throne, but if Daenerys dies before she gets to defeat Cersei, Jon has NO WAY to get to the Throne. He has no army, he has no political ally (outside of Varys but does he have a House?) the Unsullied, Dorne, Yara, the Dothraki, heck even the Second Sons who are basically the only force left, are loyal to Daenerys. The GC has more chances to rally to Daenerys than they’d ever do to Jon- why? Well because they’re from Essos! Who was in Essos being famous up there? Well Daenerys and no one else! So yeah he has his bro Tormund who is literally on the other side of the country, the Knights of the Vale who are??? Nowhere to be seen? Okay the Northerners follow him but they’re basically not enough against the GC. Not to mention that Jon has no dragon. If Dany loses, Jon dies, because he’s literally in King’s Landing, right there, with her. And do you have ANY IDEA (does Sansa?) of what will happen if Cersei learns about Jon’s parentage? I mean, on top of it all, he’s Lyanna’s son. You know, it’s not like Tywin Lannister got Elia Martell butchered because Rhaegar DARED to marry her and not his daughter Cersei. It’s not like the Lannisters can’t be THAT petty. So how is it smart to weaken Daenerys NOW? Also don’t get me started on the xenophobic-root of it all. Why does Sansa want the Northern Independance? Oh well because she doesn’t trust anyone! Fair! She doesn’t even trust someone who’s had half her army butchered and two of her dragons killed for her family/the war of the dawn. She doesn’t even trust someone who came forward with her, admitted “their weakness” (Dany loving Jon) straight forward to her. Sansa is literally exploiting Jon’s love for Daenerys rn to get to her goal, but I guess that’s morally okay because “she should be able to want thiiiings!!!” Want to talk about straight up? Guess what, she never came “straight up” to Jon about the Northern independance, they never talked about it, only about Jon giving up his crown. In fact, Sansa only voiced WHY she wants an Independant North to Daenerys: BECAUSE Daenerys was the one coming to talk to her, not the other way around. Before that, Sansa’s plan was just to act silently petty and full of disdain and that’s it. Had Sansa made ANY EFFORT to try and talk with Dany about it - other than with sheer animosity like in that scene - and Dany would have been like “it’s not even a question!” or whatever, I would have understood Sansa’s plotting better. But no, she never ONCE tried the “honest” road, literally talking to the Queen who was right there, she just plotted behind her back.Yara did it the honest way; she came, she was like “hey you need boats! I’ll give you boats and you help me with my home, okay??” and everything went FINE. How could Sansa not do that? Especially towards someone her brother LOVES! Whether or not Sansa thinks it’s “smart” out of Jon to love someone, he still does! Doesn’t she think killing the woman he loves and breaking his heart for a metal chair will DESTROY their relationship and her family?? And now, she’s plotting as far as planning to have her murdered, all that for HER goals (because jon. does not. want. the throne!). Jon getting the Throne would serve Sansa and all the people who are counting on the oppoprtunity of manipulating Jon’s ass once he’s king (*cough* Varys). All that because Sansa is so paranoid, so sure she’s “right” that she doesn’t even think about any other possibility. Heck, is it really paranoia? Because we literally have David Nutter saying it’s about jealousy and power! Imagine that? Sansa betraying her brother to gain power. That’s literally like Cersei killing Margaery right in front of Tommen’s nose. Even when his brother loves that woman, even when it puts her brother’s life in danger, even when Daenerys never even did anything to appear as an enemy to Sansa. Sansa has a roof over her head rn, because of Daenerys’ army: and her saying “we’ll never forget them!” about men she doesn’t even know to try and sound “thankful” was the fakest shit she’s ever said (she literally forgot about them already and whatever; the Unsullied, the Dothraki, they followed Dany out of love and loyalty, and the Starks are like “we wuv these people who died for the north but FUCK THEIR QUEEN!”). Like?? Do you even stop two seconds to evaluate the shittiness of all of this? The Starks are basically saying “we’re glad we had all this meat to protect our walls but now we don’t care about the woman who came to help us, we want her gone/dead!” WTF?? The Starks? Thinking like this??! It’d be like them throwing Theon’s body in a ditch, saying “welp he helped us but whATEVER!”. No, they somehow honored him. Because “he’s one of them” or whatever bullshit way of thinking they have now. Daenerys didn’t even gain a little bit of their respect, trust or anything, after all she did? Well!I wouldn’t be that mad if I were anti-Sansa. I’m so disappointed in what they did of her because Sansa is meant to be better than that! She’s NOT Littlefinger, she’s NOT Cersei, even tho she learnt from them. Sansa’s kindness of heart was ALWAYS what guided her journey - in the books at least and tbh in the show up until s5 where everything went to shit. I’m disappointed in people being blinded by fucking ships, ignoring what horrible writing this is. I don’t want Sansa to seem like a villain, and at least I thought she’d NEVER betray her brother. She did tho, and the fact that d&d and nutter are confirming that it’s nothing but to grab power gets me… what the fuck. I have a problem with Sansa not caring about human life when she’s thinking about her goals: because that’s NOT canon Sansa. That’s not book!Sansa. That’s not Ned Stark’s - I will not have a young girl butchered because my King sees her as a threat - daughter. She can want whatever she wants, but there are ways of doing things, stomping on other people isn’t a good way to get to your goals. If y’all need that lesson in life: here, take it, it’s free. (to be clear, I’m mad at Sansa like I was mad at Bellamy after ep 5x09, Bellamy wanting to save his friends wasn’t inherently bad, of course. His way of doing things tho, betraying clarke - his canonically best friend who thought died for him like 4 days ago - and using a - HER child - child as a pawn to do so? NOP! Sansa wanting to be free and safe isn’t bad, of course not! But betraying her brother and distrusting - to the point of wanting to kill! - a woman who has never done anything to harm her? NOP!)

[graceverse]

WHAT IF?

Ok, so here’s a thought. What if in Season 8

1. Brienne arrives in Winterfell with Jaime and the Starklings are all: “we don’t want to have an audience with Jaime. Why? What do you mean why? He pushed Bran out of the window that’s why. We want him in the dungeon!” And Brienne goes, “but we’ve all done something that was vile and wrong and we were given second chances!” And the Staklings are still, “Nope, no!” So Jaime gives Brienne a “fuck loyalty, huh?” look before Brienne very gently nudges him inside his cell. She warns him, “I’ll be back, try not to escape.” 

2. Meanwhile Sam and Bran tell Sansa and Arya Jon’s true parentage and Arya is like, ‘No! That’s not true! Jon’s my brother!’ But Sansa tells Sam to send a raven to the Citadel, “I want a written letter confirming the authenticity of this book!” And Sam goes, “You want me to write to the Citadel about the book I stole?” and the Starklings, go, “Uhm, yes? That’s exactly what we want you to do, is there a problem?” and Sam leaves them, on the verge of tears. So Arya asks, “what are we going to do?” And Sansa very regally juts out her chin and says, “what father had been doing all his life, we will protect Jon.” And Arya goes, “Fuck yeah!” And then Sansa very queenly tells her, “There must always be a Stark in Winterfell.” Arya is not sure what this means but Bran merely nods in agreement and Arya is all, “what the fuck is going on here?” 

3. Jaime is granted an audience with the Starklings and he tells them about the Golden Company and then pledges his life to Sansa, and Sansa tells him to arise and all that shit and then she goes, “We will ride for Riverrun. You will pretend to be my prisoner.” And Jaime is all, “are you fucking kidding me?” Sansa raises her eyebrows at him, “does this bring you dishonor? To pretend to be captured by the family whose family you have slaughtered?” And that shuts up Jaime. Sansa declares, “Robb was King in the North and The Trident. I am Catelyn Stark’s eldest daughter, The Trident is mine.” Bran nods and Arya is all, “The Starks are coming for ya!” Sansa tells Arya, “when Jon arrives, don’t make trouble, we need him safe. He must not know yet. No one must know yet. Just make him suffer for bending the knee. But not the ‘I’ll cut your face and wear it’ shit, ok? He’ll cry.”

4. Jon arrives in Winterfell but Sansa is not there. He’s half relieved, half-crazy with worry, esp since Littlefinger is not creepily hanging out at the back. “Where is Sansa?” he asks, all broody and dark eyed and Arya very sadly says, “she’s gone.” And Jon goes all pale and wild eyed with grief and he looks like he’s about to stab himself with Longclaw when Bran says, “hey chill out, she’s out gathering armies for you because Cersei isn’t going to help you and will in fact attack the North with a bunch of Unsullied except only they have cocks, so they’re easier to bribe.” Jon and Dany both go: whaaaaat? While Tyrion is all: oh, shit! Dany announces, “I will go back south and take what is rightfully mine!” But Jon and Tyrion stops her, “you can’t! You promised the North! What kind of Queen are you if you will not hold your word?” Dany and Jon goes off to sulk. Separately.

5. Sansa rallies The Trident, presenting them with the Kingslayer and she tells them that all the women and children can leave for the impregnable Vale, where they will be safest. It would be the last to fall if the wars reach them. She will distribute the provisions the Blackfish had secured in Riverrun but she will need their help. Rumors about the wight in Kings Landing had reached them and because Sansa is honest and bad ass and is the daughter of Cat, the sister of Robb and the one who captured the Kingslayer for justice, they rally behind her. Also it’s winter, if anyone can get them through winter, its the Starks. Winter is coming, they always say and you can bet your ass they know exactly what to do in winter.

6. Cersei, upon hearing that Sansa has Jaime tells the The Golden Company to forget about Dragonstone, she ain’t getting shit from Dragonstone anyway. She wants Sansa and Jaime captured alive so she can punish them herself. She sends the Mountain with them whose sole task is to beat the shit out of Jaime and take the Stark Girl. The Golden Company camp a few miles away from Riverrun, ready to attack. But during the night, they are attacked by a bunch of giant feral wolves. Those that escapes blindly ran into Riverrun and are soundly defeated by Sansa’s army. The Mountain almost takes Sansa, but Jaime very neatly cuts off his legs and well, gravity.  

7. Bran doesn’t need ravens and shit so he announces to the Northern Lords, to Team Bend The Knees, that Sansa has defended The Trident and is – gasp – heading towards King’s Landing. Dany doesn’t take it well and while planning her next move, she made the mistake of calling Sansa’s actions treasonous, punishable with death and Jon is not having any of that. He slams his fist on the table, making Dany jump, “YOU. DO. NOT. THREATEN. MY. SISTER. EVER.” Dany, shaken, lifts up her head and coolly says, “Oh, so now it’s my sister, you think I haven’t noticed how you act every time someone says her name?” and Jon is all, “what the fuck you talking about?” And that is the beginning of TargBowl.

8. The Lords of the Trident forgives Jaime because he saved their queen and he fought valiantly. Sansa tells him that he is longer a “prisoner” but is now her sworn sword. Jaime winks at Brienne and Brienne is as always, none too amused. Jaime tells Sansa she should go back to Winterfell, but Sansa shakes her head, “no, I don’t want to”, all pouty and sad eyed and Jaime figures it out, because he’s so been there and done that. He’s not at all sympathetic, “you foolish girl! You’re in love with your brother. Well, half-brother but… oh, seven hells…look at me and Cersei” and Sansa is indignant, “I am not Cersei and Jon is not you.” She almost tells Jaime that Jon is actually her cousin, thank you very much, but she has more sense than that, thank God for character development.

9. Sansa asks for Theon’s help and Theon pledges all the remaining Greyjoy ships to her cause. Sansa arrives in King’s Landing and tells the people that they need not fear Cersei anymore. Those who do not wish to be part of the coming war are free to go and they can seek shelter at The Trident, The Vale or even The North. Those brave enough can join her in taking King’s Landing from Cersei. Cersei sees the futility of killing the people of KL and burning it down to the ground. She’s done that already. And she hates being redundant. Also, all things considered, this is much better than dealing with dragons and so she readies her remaining armies. The people of KL is already sick of Cersei’s shit, so they wisely flock to Sansa.

10. Jon and Dany battles the Night King and the army of the dead and are triumphant but Drogon fought Viserion to death and now she only has Rhaegal. Sansa and Jaime battles Cersei. 

Meanwhile in KL, Jaime kills Cersei, but not before he gets fatally wounded by Euron (sorry, Brienne + Jamie fans) Euron tries to flee, but is killed by The Greyjoylings. Cersei, Euron and Jaime dies. Sansa does not want the Iron Throne, but she makes the reveal of all reveals: she is taking the Iron Throne, in behalf of Jon Snow aka Aegon Targaryen – no, the other Aegon Targaryen, Rhaegar’s son from Lyanna Stark, the true heir of the Iron Throne and who is fighting in The North so that they will not have to face the horrors of the Night King’s Army. The people cheer for their king because they are sexist shits, but it’s not their fault, that’s how it was during those times. Sansa leaves Edmure and Lord Royce to take care of anything that needs taking care of while she’s gone. Sansa is so done with the South and she immediately rides North.

11. Dany is PISSED. She is FUMING MAD. She did not help the North defeat the White Walkers to be usurped by her NEPHEW. She thinks Jon deliberately did not tell her about his parentage and she was tricked by the WHOLE FUCKING NORTH, the STARKS most especially. Jon on the other hand is terrifically wounded but he’ll survive. He is CONFUSED and MOPEY and he’s all “NO. WAIT. WHAT? YOU’RE MY AUNT? SANSA IS MY COUSIN?!’ And is in no shape or form ready for another war. Dany wants to take Rhaegal and finally take the Iron throne but she is killed by… Tyrion or Varys. Or both of them. I don’t know. No one knows. No one saw it happened. So Jon is all, “but I don’t want the Iron Throne! It does not belong to the Targaryens. When is Sansa coming back home? Will she back soon? I miss her.” And Tyrion is, “well who the fuck does it belong to?” And Bran goes, “to the Baratheons.” And everyone groans out loud because they’ve had enough of these reveals and they make Bran promise that Gendry Baratheon will be the absolute LAST reveal. Sansa returns to Winterfell, triumphant and she’s so happy and she hugs Arya and goes, “the Storm Land is yours.” But Arya is all, “I don’t want to be a LADY!” and Sansa smiling sweetly almost evilly tells her, “yes, of course, you’re no Lady. You’re Queen.” 

The Greyjoys are finally given their right and freedom to rule over their Island provided that they stop being assholes to everyone else. Yara and Theon are only happy to make peace with the rest of the Kingdom. The Vale and The Trident refuses to be parted from their Queen and so The Vale and The Trident are under the protection of the North. The rest of the houses also want the guidance of a King and Queen because they’re all lazy fucks and do not want the headache of ruling separate kingdoms. And so the South is ruled by Queen Arya Stark and the North is ruled by Queen Sansa Stark – because, fuck yeah for Stark women!

12. It takes a year and a half for Jon and Sansa to sort out everything, but they finally do it, to the relief of Tormund, because Brienne had told him she will not be stolen by Tormund unless Jon and Sansa becomes King and Queen in the North and Tormund had begged and begged Jon to just man up and steal Sansa, which Jon finally does. And Tormund could never be happier. He is already planning on how to steal Brienne.

THE END.

Ok. WAIT. 

I think I want to actually write this as a fanfic, be right back.

[wolvesandfoxes25]

Why is Jon/Sansa endgame?

Hello to all, once again. Of course, I’ve decided to do another small, well, LARGE meta on why I personally think Jonsa is endgame. Now, these are my points, and my views, if you don’t agree, you’re free to do so. On we go now.

Now, since season 6, I’ve started shipping Jon and Sansa. Believe me, before season 6, I never thought they would even meet each other. But, I was surprised, and was also very surprised by the chemistry they had with each other. From the get go, from the scene where they discuss home and from there, I was very...suspicious of their interactions with each other. Now, personally, I have no brothers. I do have sisters though. I would never act with them the way Sansa and Jon act with each other. The stares, the heavy breathing after arguing, the protection speech. 

Moving on...

Point 1: They look like Ned and Cat reborn. Even book wise, Jon is said to look the MOST like Ned, even Cat says so. Sansa herself is compared to Catelyn numerous times. By Petyr, by Lysa, etc. Now even though Sansa is compared to Cat, she doesn’t treat Jon the same way Catelyn did. After meeting him again, she becomes very close with Jon. She learned from  her mistakes. Anyway...

At the wall, after his death, when Jon came back, he started to wear his hair in a man-bun, and it matched Ned’s perfectly, almost eerily. Sansa also started to wear her hair in ‘northern’ braids. Much like her mother did. Even in season 7 now, she wears her hair a lot like her mothers, with a touch of Cersei in it. 

Jon/Ned- Honorable, broody, tries to do the right thing all the time, protective, etc. 

Sansa/Cat: Red hair, has the ‘tully’ look about her. Sansa also has the gift of observation, a lot like Cat did. Etc.

Now, this relationship. Cat and Ned’s. They were not married for love, they were married because Catelyn was engaged to Ned’s brother, Brandon. He however, met his end in Kings Landing when the mad king Aerys invited him and his father, for a peace summoning. He was burned alive. To join the two houses, Catelyn and Ned then married. Over the years, Catelyn said their marriage was built up, ‘stone by stone.’ They also had the most loving, healthy relationships on the show. 

In Season 7 Jon and Sansa have had so many parallels to Ned and Cat. Their looks, and now their actions. 

Point 2: Their chemistry!!

Like I said in the introduction to this meta, their scenes in season 6 were so...tense. This scene specifically. They just ooze sexual tension. Like...their are so many unspoken words between them. So many things they want to unleash, all the anger they have pent up, not exactly at each other, but just in general. 

Hell, Kit said himself. “Sansa twists him in ways no one else can. She gets under his skin.” We’ve seen this before, with Ygritte. When they were together, Jon and Ygritte argued a lot. It came to a boiling point when they fucked in a cave. Jon and Sansa’s chemistry has yet to come to the ‘boiling’ point. In the tent though, with all the heavy breathing, the lighting, and the intense eye contact, I was halfway expecting Jon to throw Sansa on the table and fuck her senseless. 

If they weren’t ‘brother and sister’ no doubt that would have happened.

I’ve also said before that they have this unspoken thing to their relationship. They can communicate without words. Like when they were meeting with Lyanna Mormont, Jon knew when to jump in when Sansa needed him, and Sansa knew when to jump in when Jon needed her too. 

I love that.

Point 3: Their compatibility.

Now, at the moment they do consider themselves ‘brother and sister.’ Even though they don’t act like it.

Now, season 6 and 7 has shown us that Jon needs help when it comes to political aspects of ruling. And Sansa, well, she admits that he’s the ‘military man.’ Sansa knows the south, because she was experienced it, she’s tasted the betrayal, the death, the hypocrisy. She’s been flung into it, the only thing that protected her was her ladylike facade. 

Also, in the books, Jon and Sansa dream of having children that look like their deceased siblings. And have their names. They dream of returning to Winterfell, they think about it constantly. Also, the books show the parallel journey that they both take. It isn’t as noticeable in the show, but book-wise, it is very plainly seen. 

Also, my last meta was about redheads, and why Jon seems so drawn to them. He’s drawn to them because of two women he couldn’t get to notice him. Cat especially. I also mentioned that he ‘detested’ ladies, but that’s just a front because of the wounded pride aspect of it. He knows he’ll never be with a lady of a great house. He ‘hates’ them, but begins to love Ygritte because of her stories, and singing. Now, Jon himself, for Sansa, is her hero. 

In the books, she dreams of someone beheading Janos Slynt. Well, someone does...Jon Snow. 

He’s brave, gentle, and strong.

Point 4: The Stark name..

I wrote a comment on a video a long time ago, stating that Jon and Sansa are the only two who can rebuild house Stark. If Sansa were to marry another, her children would not have the name Stark. Arya herself, has never wanted that life. Bran, he can’t procreate, because his ‘anatomy’ does not work. He says it himself, he’ll never be Lord of anything, he’s the three-eyed raven. 

This is where Starkbowl threw me. They said at the end of season 6, Sansa was pissed because she wasn’t crowned Queen. I didn’t believe that then, didn’t believe it between seasons, and I sure as hell don’t believe it now. Sansa knows if she were Queen, she would be forced to marry a random Northern Lord. Or Baelish would try to get his hooks in her again. She would be sold like cattle once more. I think Sansa was very glad that that wasn’t what happened. 

Now Jon: Yes, it is true that Jon is basically a Targaryen. However, if he were to marry a Stark, he could take her name. If he so chose to do so. She could legitimize him as :Stark: by the only way really...marriage. 

When Jon’s parentage becomes a known fact, and it will, probably in season 8. We saw the way the Northern Lord’s reacted when they heard Daenerys was in Westeros. How will they feel knowing that Jon, their KING, is a Targaryen? They only put him that spot because they thought he was Ned Starks son. Well, he isn’t. He’s Rhaegar Targaryens. They won’t bend the knee to a dragon. But, if Jon were to marry a Stark, his claim would stay strong, and the Stark claim would stay even stronger. Their children would be Starks, the name carrying on. 

Point 5: Their blood relations..

“But, they’re siblings!” False. They are NOT siblings, they are first cousins. And yes, in TODAY’S TIMES, I repeat TODAY’S TIMES, it is seen as taboo, but, back in medieval times, it was considered normal. Even in civil war times, for those who have seen Gone with the Wind, the Wilkes married their cousins. They always did. Melanie was Ashley’s cousin. Also, Sansa was going to marry Robyn Arryn, he is also her first cousin. 

Now, looking at blood logistics here:

Siblings share 50% blood relations.

Aunt/Nephew share 25% blood relations.

1st cousins share between 7-12% blood relations.

Also, the Stark line has married cousin/cousin before. Even uncle/niece before. It was not common, but it did happen. It has happened in the Stark line. Ned’s mother and father were cousins. Tywin and his wife were first cousins. 

“Were will you go?” 

“Where will we go?”

“I won’t ever let him touch you again, I’ll protect you, I promise.”

“We need to trust each other, we can’t fight a war amongst ourselves, we have so many enemies now.”

“Do you think I’m Joffrey?”

“You’re as far from Joffrey then anyone I’ve ever met.”

“You’re good at this, you know?”

“You are. You are.”

“Would that be so terrible?”

“You know him better than anyone, what do you think?”

“You’re abandoning your people! You’re abandoning your home!”

“Until I return, the north is yours.”

“I love Sansa..”

“As I loved her mother...”

“Touch my sister, and I’ll kill you myself.”

^^^^^^(NOT MY PIC!!!)

What does LF know?

“Does she miss me terribly?”

Jon’s expression: =.= bitch please. I will throw your little ass off here.

“I didn’t ask.”

And more to come with Theon, and the Hound later this season.

I think I’ve made my point, loud and clear. 

Also, one last thing:

[samwpmarleau]

One thing that I don't get in ASOIAF is the fandom believe Rhaegar would make a great king, but what is exactly his accomplishments beside ToH and played harp?

You’re right in saying that his list of hard accomplishments is rather small. We know of only three tourneys that he entered (though he’s said to have been a consummate jouster, so presumably he did enter others), one of which he lost, one of which took him 12 rounds to win, and all three of which had final matches against members of the Kingsguard, who are known to more or less throw said matches to ensure they don’t injure their future sovereign.

(No one can say he wasn’t in a league of his own when it comes to moping, though. The guy spent extended periods of time alone at haunted Summerhall, the place most of his family died horrifically in a fire, in order to brood and write depressing songs, I mean really.)

However. You have to consider his image.

Until he took off with Lyanna, he was the absolute perfect prince. He was scholarly, which pleased the maesters, but also martial, which pleased the lords. He was handsome beyond measure, he sang songs so affecting they made wolf-blooded Lyanna cry, he wasn’t a womanizer nor did he solicit prostitutes, he was allegedly courting lords to depose his father, he did his duty by his wife and not only had a Targaryen-looking son but also a daughter that could be used for marriage alliances, he did the smart and respectful thing by moving his household to Dragonstone instead of staying in King’s Landing, etc. etc. Even the debacle at Harrenhal didn’t irreparably damage public perception.

Without the benefit of hindsight, well, there was hardly a single thing wrong with him. Maybe a little dreary, but then, Jaehaerys I didn’t exactly sound like he was the life of the party either and he’s remembered as the best king Westeros ever had.

Nearly two decades after civil war ripped the realm apart, singers continue to frame Rhaegar’s liaison with Lyanna as a tale of star-crossed lovers, a tragic romance, two people that just wanted to run away together. Only Robert is outwardly vitriolic, a vitriol that is referred to as a “madness” in him and thus more or less undermined.

All of that is, I believe, why many people in the fandom view Rhaegar so positively, because almost all of Westeros does. He’s the King That Could Have Been. Truthfully, I was of that same mind until a little over a year ago when I started analyzing it all, so I can hardly blame fans who take what the story says at face value since I used to do it myself.

But the problem is that you can’t just take things at face value and say Rhaegar would have been the best ruler since Jaehaerys, because he would not have been. He would have been closer to Aerys I, who incidentally was also obsessed with arcane matters and prophecy to the point of neglecting the realm (though Rhaegar did at least consummate his marriage and have children, which is more than Aerys did with poor Aelinor Penrose).

Best case scenario is if the Rebellion doesn’t happen and Aerys is deposed peacefully, because then Rhaegar is operating under almost unanimous goodwill (even Tywin may be brought back in the fold provided Rhaegar agrees to marry Cersei to Viserys or something). But even then, there’s still the issue of Elia not being able to have another child after Aegon, because no matter what, Rhaegar wants his third head and fast. If he doesn’t opt to kill his wife in childbirth, presumably he decides to go after Lyanna as in the original timeline. In which case even if it doesn’t come to war, he’s still massively pissing off the Starks, Baratheons, Martells, and his own mother. Not to mention that having a child with Lyanna means a bastard, likely one he would then legitimize, and let’s just say the last time there was a Targaryen bastard running around, it didn’t end well. So he’s got that to contend with, too.

But let’s say he manages to smooth things over enough to keep the country going. Barring an extreme personality shift, now that he has his three heads (though I’m not sure how he’d address Jon being, well, Jon, and not his Visenya), he’d be more focused than ever on the Long Night. He’d probably want to bolster the Night’s Watch forces, stockpile food and weapons, train not only his sons for combat but Rhaenys as well, try to obtain and hatch dragon eggs, and plan not for the immediate future but for 17 or so years down the line when the Others come. As we saw IOTL, the current status of the realm is secondary in his mind, because what does the status of the treasury matter if the Long Night isn’t prepared for?

Of course, maybe he’s a better juggler than anyone gives him credit for and he oversees the realm well and plans for the future, but I sincerely doubt it. Based on what we know, he is far more like the aforementioned Aerys I or Baelor the Blessed than, say, Daeron II. Which is something I think the people of Westeros would come to realize quite quickly. Whether Rhaegar’s madness mindset becomes so much of an issue that the people end up wanting him deposed, I don’t know. I don’t think it would get that bad, considering not even Aegon IV was kicked off the throne, but it’s a possibility–if, for instance, his son Aegon grew up in the vein of avuncular ancestor Baelor Breakspear.

I should also point out that this AU means Dany will have never been born, which throws a wrench in things, not that Rhaegar knew it.

And if the Rebellion does happen, well, Rhaegar’s exponentially more fucked. Of those who supported the crown, only the Tyrells were really of note (support that was half-assed to begin with). While Aerys was the one who escalated the situation, there wouldn’t have been a situation to escalate if Rhaegar hadn’t done what he did, and it’s not like Rhaegar would even really be able to reward the loyalists with marriage in the way Robert did since he was still married to Elia and had three kids. People may have considered him better than Aerys, but Rhaegar’s shine would have most assuredly worn off for them. At which point, Rhaegar not only has to keep the realm stable, but stabilize it to begin with. That means concessions up the wazoo and political appointments, plus things like needing to replace the dead Kingsguard and getting rid of all the wildfire beneath King’s Landing. After that, it’s the same as in the non-Rebellion scenario. He’s still going to be much more focused on the Long Night than he is on matters of state, which will put off almost everyone, especially since no one would believe him about the Others.

So no, as far as I’m concerned Rhaegar would not have made a good king, but I can see where fans get the notion that he would (looking at you, Barristan). He would have been better than his father in many respects but worse in others, and his laser focus on something in the distant future that people not Rhaegar, Aemon, or Bloodraven think is a big fat fairy tale would land him at best in disfavor and at worst deposed.

[starrology101]

Sansa’s ruling Lady of Winterfell who actually prepared for the coming winter. She has Theon in her corner, and therefore the Iron Islands, she has the Knights of the Vale, and she has ties to the Riverlands. That’s 4 Kingdoms that are probably more willing to accept Sansa as their queen over another pyromaniac gecko. But sure, Sansa’s jealous of Daenerys because *dragons*

Daenerys has a huge, soon to be starving army, and needs Sansa more than Sansa needs her. Like I said, Daenerys’ contribution to the war with the Night King have been disappointing so far. Not to say that she can’t be an ally, but she sure as fuck isn’t bringing anything to the table worth bending the knee for. Especially without consulting Sansa first.

If Daenerys wants to be queen of all 7 kingdoms, she has to prove herself PERIOD. If Daenerys wants the North to accept her as their queen, she has to prove herself to the Northern lords and she has to prove herself to Sansa. You know, the daughter of the man who literally fought in a war to get her family off the throne.

That’s not how kingship works. Aerys Targaryen also believed that as king he could make whatever decisions he wanted (like burning people alive) and shouldn’t have to answer to anyone below him. He lost the support of most of his lords and was killed. Rhaegar also thought he was above the rules and could impregnabt an engaged noble woman because *prophesy*. He was also killed. But sure, Jon can do whatever he wants while answering to no one, consequence free. Because that worked out so well the first time he tried that shit at the NW. Titles do matter, you just don’t understand feudal politics.

The Targaryen were removed from power by right of conquest, which is how they came into power in the first place. The Baratheons claimed the throne by merit of their Targaryen blood, yes, but only their branch of the family. Once again: Daenerys has no claim to the throne because her father, mother, and brothers were either killed or removed from power. Understand?

But yes, you are correct. The line of succession to Winterfell should go

Bran—->Sansa——>Arya——>Jon

But D&D are ableist assholes, so it’s Sansa who’s actually doing the ruling.

Why would Dany allow her dragons to eat people?? Idk why’d she allow them to eat people literally every time they’ve eaten people?? Oh I know, she’s sadistic and has limited control over her flying, fire breathing WMD. That’s why.

If Daenerys is willing to help without the subjugation of the North, THAN SHE SHOULD HAVE FUCKING ACCEPTED TO HELP WITHOUT ASKING JON TO BEND THE KNEE IN THE FIRST PLACE. That’s not what a “good” queen who cares about her subjects does. That’s what colonizers and conquerors do. The North does not want to be fucking conquered or colonized by another fucking Targaryen and Jon has no right to give away a crown that was given to him by the lords under his command. If he didn’t want to be KitN, he shouldn’t have accepted the damn crown in the first place.

Daenerys is an unwelcome presence in Sansa’s home. Sansa is Ned Stark’s oldest trueborn child and ruling Lady of Winterfell. She can tell Jon and Daenerys to kick rocks and she’d be completely justified. If Daenerys doesn’t like Sansa’s attitude she can take her army and fly her ass back to Dragonstone. Let her figure out how to feed her hundred thousand soldiers and 3 grown dragons after she literally burned a huge storage of food.

And Sansa disagreeing with Jon and speaking her mind =\= her disrespecting him. In fact, one of the reasons she didn’t tell him about her spare army (which she had no direct control over at that time) was because Jon was dismissive of her and her opinions. But yeah, her “pressuring” Jon to save their fucking home makes her the absolute worst.

Jon making a huge decision about bending the knee and giving over the rule of her home, the home she’s at least 50% responsible for saving, is the most disrespectful thing Jon could do. That is not a decision Jon had the right to make by himself. Again alliances =\= subjugation.

In conclusion; Jon is a terrible King. Daenerys is a terrible Queen. And Sansa’s the only using her fucking brain, playing the game and being an actually effective ruler while taking care of her people.

Sansa’s story arc since coming back to Winterfell has largely been about stirring drama

She isn’t “playing the game,” she’s hindering everyone’s progress to mobilize and unite their forces against the oncoming army of the dead.

The show writers seem fine with letting her act jealous and snarky (which some fans interpret as powerful? idk) in order to keep her relevant. But the drama she’s causing isn’t just irrelevant, it’s so out of character for everyone involved.

Her stans think she’s “so smart” as if she’s Cersei 2.0, but the only similarity they share is that they’d both rather focus on petty squabbles for power than the true threat against humanity.

Just remember folks, Sansa’s never held a real leadership position where she’s had to grapple with power and it’s consequences in the same way Jon, Dany, and Cersei have. Her only purpose is literally just to…complain.

[electricrogue]

OK so let me start by saying that if you ship anything on GoT that is your problem and you shouldn’t be offended by what I am going to say. I just need to vent after last episode (as in last leaked episode, so I’m putting the rest under the cut). Basically this will be a “Dany deserves better, generally all the gals deserve better” post and as a consequence it will be against all possible ships, sorry but I don’t make the rules.

OK so thing is, I will never forgive Martin and D&D for this. Maybe he’ll do it better in the books, don’t care, the idea will remain and since I hate the idea... yeah.

You know, when I started the show I was in it for the ladies. Especially Dany but also Margaery, Arya and Olenna. I loved them because they were independent kickass gals who went through shit and still managed to be badass at the end of the day. I’m not saying that they were perfect, because God knows they were not, but they were nice you know?

And, after 7 seasons, where are we? Margaery is dead, Olenna is dead (ok she got out with a bang, but still dead), and Arya and Dany... oh boy.

Arya is pretty fine atm except the fiasco with Sansa. I still hope that they are actually playing Littlefinger and not the other way around, but dunno. Also, Sansa, damn it, I had hopes for her, I hoped she got out of her bitch phase, but nope. Just evolved to another kind of bitch who ok is less of a wussy but still a bitch.

Which brings is to my main point, which is Dany. Or rather, why the fuck does she need a cock in her life?! Trust me, she really doesn’t. She’s bee through hell, like Viserys was an ass to her, Drogo was an ass to her - do not give me all that sun and stars bullshit, he.raped.her.on.her.wedding.night. Not to mention she couldn’t have kids. But she fought that, and she had kids, with no man beside her, and she became a badass, on her own. OK she has her flaws and she may be a bit too idealistic and she was a bad mommy at times, but she still was a pretty cool character, without any man at her side. Sure, she had Daario, but let’s face it he was a boy toy and nothing more.

Enter Jon Snow aka her nephew - yes the incest part bothers me too but that is the least of my problems. Personal opinion here but the fucker is walking fanservice, he should have fucking stayed dead if you ask me. She tells him to bend the knee, he doesn’t want to, which OK, I get both of their points so I am fine with that.

But then... it all goes to hell. Let’s face it, the mission was THE.STUPIDEST.THING.EVER. What the fuck did he think, that a wight is gonna stroll alone near the wall and they’ll just grab him and bring him with them? So of course it goes to hell and of course he needs his ass saved and of course Dany comes to save his stupid ass and she loses her baby. I get all of this, minus the part with wtf was Snow so stupid he imagined the plan will work.

The rest however... That, I can’t get. She loses a child and she is obviously hurt and angry, alright. BUT, why doesn’t she get pissed on Snow?! And don’t give me the crap that she is in love with him, you do not forgive someone who basically killed your kid because of his stupidity just because you have the hots on him. And bonus, she’ll fuck him next episode. And I swear to God if she gets pregnant with him and I hear anyone else saying “oh pish she lost a dragon but hey she has a baby a life for a death” and all that... NO. Just, no. You cannot replace a child with another and I personally don’t get how you could replace a child by fucking the one whose fault it is for losing your child.

Not to mention that the fucker has first claim to the throne now because he has a cock and he’s Rhaegar’s son so IF she survives the war - and that is a huge if because of the whole shitfest with Azor Ahai and all - he’ll be king and she will be his queen and rule by proximity or, what I think is more plausible, he’ll give up the throne and let her rule. It’s still shitty because she still gets to rule only because the fucker lets her. And that is clearly the way they’re going, like just watch her reaction when he bends the knee - asking if she’s worth it? Why was that necessary again? Of fucking course she is and she doesn’t need that shithead’s validation thank you very much.

So basically what I’m saying is, why the fuck does she need a husband anyway? I don’t necessarily want her single (though I personally think it would make sense for her), but I want her with someone who is her equal and who respects her. Not someobody who bends the knee only after she sacrifices one of her children for him and not somebody who calls her children beasts. Be they gorgeous or not, first rule for hooking up with a powerful woman is you listen to her and you see the world the way she does, and if she thinks lizards the size of Boeings are cute precious kids then you say the same and not only you say the same, you fucking believe it. And if you can’t do that then you’re not getting any. End of story.

[janiedean]

But why do you hate Cersei that much? Is it because you are hardcore JamiexBrienne shipper? (Classic)

… this question was fairly fine until the classic, which denotes a certain passive-aggressiveness typical of the usual cersei stan so excuse me if instead of getting a nice answer I might have toned down a bit you’re getting all the ugly truth - next time consider not implying that I’d hate a character just because it’s in the way of my ship, thank you, since I tend to actually multiship and I don’t hate jeynew for being technically an obstacle to my main ship and so on. but okay. you wanna know? let’s go in order,

spoilers: this is gonna be ugly, I am not going to hold back any venom and so if you like cersei you’re welcome to not read this. I warned you.

one: classic. my dear anon, I’ll tell you a secret: 80% of the jb fandom actually likes cerse. I’m in the minority. most people I know who ship jb either also ship jc or like cersei as a villain/as the horrid person she is because they enjoy a well-written villain. i don’t, but most *hardcore jb shippers* actually LIKE cersei. if then you take ‘she’s horrible but I love her character’ as people hating her then it’s your goddamned problem.

two: I actually loathed her abusive, controlling, manipulative and murdering ass way before brienne even showed up in the book let alone reading asos.

NO, REALLY.

three: I find cersei a technically very well-built and written character. no, really.

four: too bad that if there’s one thing I hate in fiction is incompetent villains, and if there’s three kinds of people I hate irl it’s a) people who think they’re so much better than the others, b) people who use person X who loves them as an emotional punching bag/their own servant without realizing what’s wrong with it, c) people who don’t accept responsibilities of their actions. rings a bell?

ah, right.

five: I find cersei’s povs utterly, terribly and fucking boring. okay, she’s insane, okay, she’s completely out of this world, okay, she’s great in her being completely insane and wanting to rule, okay, she’s a great villain, I found it amusing for one chapter and then I fell asleep. I can’t care less to be in the head of a narcissist asshole who thinks the world is an extension of herself and digs her own grave while blaming everyone else for her shortcomings and not even getting it when she’s directly confronted with it.

six: cersei is a fucking disgusting human being. and before y’all go like BUT ROBERT, I’m just gonna say that I am in no way, shape or form required to be interested in someone who threw a 12 year old into a well because said person dared say she had a crush on her brother when she also was twelve herself. like. okay, maybe for some people she’s interesting, to me that’s child psychiatrist material.

seven: I have also absolutely no fucking interest in an abusive fuck who spent her entire life actively or not actively trying to prevent jaime from actually having an identity separated from hers or who sexually molested her other brother while he was in the crib and justifies it with WELL HE’S A MONSTER. no, fuck you.

eight: an abusive fuck who also thinks she’s her father and couldn’t do politics if they hit her in the face. I mean, I actually like roose as a character and I don’t hate him even if he actively put a knife inside my actual favorite character’s heart because a) he’s not an incompetent fuck, b) he knows when you should not do horrid stuff because it’s not politically convenient, c) just wanted to rule his damned land and isn’t going out of his way to mess shit up jUST BECAUSE HE HAS THE POWER. cersei is just that, all along, and I can’t give a fuck about it.

nine: I have absolutely zero sympathy for 99% of her plights - at most I can give her that marrying robert was miserable, but OMG I AM A WOMAN IT PREVENTS ME FROM BEING MY FATHER SO NOW I WILL HAVE TO BE HORRID TO EVERYONE ELSE WHILE EXCUSING MYSELF ALL ALONG is not my cup of tea.

ten: OMG SHE’S A WONDERFUL MOTHER!!!! yeah a wonderful mother who sends tommen to whip someone when he’s not tough enough, totally great. and fandom even buys that. blergh.

eleven: I can’t stand her treatment of jaime and tyrion but jaime especially and I find it absolutely revolting and excuse me but I might find it such especially since if you look at it she basically dragged him into doing sexual stuff when they were younger than eight and from then on she did everything to make sure he wouldn’t have a life apart from her when she was ready to drop him if rhaegar accepted to marry her? like, why the fuck am I obliged to like this kind of person if it’s not my kind of character? ah, and it’s not about the incest because if that was the problem I wouldn’t be here shipping thor and loki and the other three sibling incests I occasionally shipped throughout my life, I just hated it since book one. am I allowed?

twelve: I’m gonna tell you a secret now (not so much but whatever). I read books 1-5 in a month marathoning and I didn’t exactly have time to form opinions until after I was done, and I started shipping jb during asos but I mean it sailed at the end and I was mild shipping, not hardcore. you know when was the moment where I thought, re cersei, omg fuck you I hope you die in a fire we’re Done I’m never giving you second chances I don’t care you can choke didn’t even have anything to do with jaime, it was when they were discussing the red wedding post-thing and someone said that catelyn went insane when she watched robb die in front of him and she started laughing about it. and excuse me anyone who finds the red wedding funny ESPECIALLY someone who professes that they’re a wonderful mother who loves her children is completely banned from my list of people who deserve me giving them a second chance to get back in my ‘I like you’ list. okay? my favorite character is robb, cat is in my top ten and I actually love cat to bits even if I don’t agree with her on half of what she says/we are fundamentally different in a lot of fundamental aspects, except that cat’s not an asshole and I can like her because she has things I like about her other than being very well-written, cersei’s just well-written but for the rest she’s the sum of everything I hate in a) fictional villains, b) people irl.

thirteen: also, the fandom tends to justify basically everything this asshole does with the excuse that she’s a woman so SHE’S AN EMPOWERED PROTO-FEMINIST when no she’s fucking not and cersei stans regularly show up bashing on my jb shipping that I try to keep actively away from them for example not tagging anything I say about cersei because I know they don’t wanna read it, while the brienne tag is riddled with crap like OMG YOU SAY SHE HAS TO BE CISHET JUST BECAUSE YOU SHIP HER WITH JAIME BOOO, or gems like ‘omg jb fans are all ugly women who want to bang jaime and project on brienne how pathetic muahahaha cersei had it so much worse’ plus coming on anon at regular intervals to send shit to people in the jb tag (I even have a tagged/jb-wank tag for it, TRY IT), so her fans definitely made sure that I went to general dislike to full-on hatred and that’s not even counting d&d trying to make cersei more sympathetic. blergh. as if there’s the need.

fourteen: I also don’t need to like someone who has no problem condemning people to death, ordering TWENTY children dead without losing a moment of sleep on it (I mean theon did the same with two and has nightmares about it, jon swapped two didn’t even kill them and he has nightmares about it, this asshole hasn’t even thought about it once), ordering people tortured or unethically experimented on and ordering rape on other women (in the show at least) all along while thinking she’s the best thing that ever happened to this planet. I have a few limits and people who only think about themselves and see other people in terms of HOW USEFUL THEY ARE TO ME are one of them, thanks.

fifteen: and for that matter, my favorite fictional villain ever is randall flagg ie a dude who killed an entire planet once or almost and who’s an unrepentant asshole and unapologetically evil, except that he actually doesn’t think he’s this great person because of it. he’s just evil incarnated, but what the hell. I like competent villains who don’t try to tell themselves they aren’t villains and who don’t frame their actions as anything but horrid shit. I’m fine if they enjoy it and I’m fine if they have a skewed set of morals according to which they see it as perfectly acceptable, but cersei doesn’t have a skewed set of morals, cersei’s just fucking out of it and has the worst narcissistic disorder in recent literary history. and she’s an incompetent fuck who thinks she’s better than everyone else who abuses everyfuckingone she runs into, and I just said jaime and tyrion but if I got into sansa, lancel, tommen, myrcella and just about everyone she interacts with I’d end up the day after tomorrow.

sixteen: my dislike was thoroughly cemented by how much I didn’t enjoy her pov chapters in affc/adwd but that was way before I hardcore shipped jb because at that point the only things I HARDCORE shipped were jon/sam and sandor/sansa, I wasn’t even shipping t/rhobb at that point. and my hardcore j/b shipping happened by the end of affc/by the time I was finished, and even then it took me one year to actually get into that side of fandom for real. so, no, actually the fact that I ship j/b has absolutely nothing to do with my dislike of cersei ie a character I disliked in got, hated in acok, was disgusted by all of the damned time in asos and throroughly detested in affc for reasons that guess what had everything to do with her and nothing to do with me shipping jaime with someone else.

because really, as long as he got away from that abusive fuck that’s his sister, he could have done it with arthur dayne, catelyn, the blackfish, fucking jon connington, oberyn or tv!bronn for what I care. I absolutely hate her also because I want jaime far away from her, but as long as he is, the fact that brienne is there and she’s his canon love interest (deal - with - it) is just a good convenient thing. otherwise I still would want him a planet away from that asshole that’s his sister. clear? shipping jb has nothing to do with that. fuck’s sake, the two most popular jon ships are jon/sansa and jon/dany and I ship him with EVERYONE BUT THOSE TWO and robb, and guess what I don’t hate sansa or robb (they’re both in my top ten/fifteen) and I don’t care about dany either way. I’m not so fucking not objective that I loathe a character so much just because they’re canonically in the middle of my ship, I’d be an immature or it’d be an immature reason and I’m enough of an adult to actually admit it. she happens to be in the middle of my ship more or less, but believe me I don’t hate elia or lyanna for being in the middle of r/jonc, sure as fuck I don’t hate cersei because she’s in the middle of jb.

I hate cersei because all of us has limits when it comes to irl and fictional characters and she’s wildly beyond all of mine and guess what, that was clear since the moment I read book one, after which jaime was my second-fave overall and she was at the damned bottom of the list. ah, except that if you dare liking jaime but not her you’re suddenly a Bad Feminist because liking the man out of the two of them but not her means you’re somehow having internalized misogyny. when instead it could be that jaime’s actually not an asshole and she is, but since, oh, wait, this fandom villanizes jaime a lot because in order to justify the crap cersei does they have to go along with that fucking THEY’RE THE SAME PERSON spiel which the narrative had denied from page five of the first tyrion pov chapter or so, I also have to get told that if I like the lannister guys (who are grey and fucked up but not inherently bad people and ah wait, both abuse victims since the damned cradle while she’s not) but not her I’m a Bad Feminist TM and excuse me but that attitude should have died years ago and it also helped making sure I would never budge when it came to c.

seventeen: the fact that the more time passes the less I can’t stand her means I can’t stand her in the show either. wow, too bad. I also couldn’t stand the th/ramsay scenes and watched them muted. but did I go ask t/hramsay ppl how they found them watchable? no. because I mind my own fucking business. and I wasn’t gonna even say it until people basically had to tear it out of me keeping on telling me I should like cersei/lena’s portrayal better than kit/jon because she’s a better actress than he is. most likely, but I don’t wanna punch jon in the face. and I wanna punch cersei in the face. for all the above reasons.

that have nothing to do with jb and all to do with the fact that cersei is an abusive/manipulative/incompetent fuck. okay?

there. that’s why I hate cersei. satisfied?

ps: and that’s why I don’t talk about cersei outside of jb meta, because I know that 50% of this is most probably my flawed subjective opinion and that she irks me also because of personal reasons that don’t have to be rational (there’s a reason why I hate incompetent idiots irl and why I hate people who think your life revolves around theirs irl btw) and that people will like her for a lot of the reasons why I dislike her. it’s fair. and that’s why I usually don’t share. 

but if you really had to ask, that’s your damned answer.

classic, my ass. 80% of jb fans around actually don’t agree with me on 80% of what I wrote. some of us just don’t fucking like cersei. deal. with. it.

thanks for coming to my fucking ted talk.