#elmo of doriath

[welcometolotr]

baby olórin with elmo and erestor circa YT 1106 🥺

[iminye]

Considering the high number of twins in Lúthien's line what if it didn't just start with Eluréd and Elurín. What if Thingol and his brother Olwe were twins, and if not them then what about Elmo and Olwe or Elmo and Thingol? And also if we go with the version where Daeron is Lúthien's brother, they could be twins too!

Idk I just want more twins for that line!

[sesamenom]

co-high kings galadriel & celeborn

since elrond doesn't want the kingship, galadriel & celeborn are the eldest in middle-earth of the lines of Olwe and Elmo respectively. olwe is older but hes the king of the teleri not specifically doriath sindar so there might be some dispute between which line the sindarin high kingship jumps to, but they very conveniently happen to already be married and so can skip all that and just be twice the headache for sauron

[dalliansss]

Eöl came to a full court session. So many Sindar aristocrats, from great and small houses, seemed to have poured into Menegroth bearing many petitions and complaints. Every single one of them have one complaint: the trade restrictions now imposed upon them by the Noldor – not just from the East, but also from the West. Apparently, the children of Finarfin who were kin to the King, especially the eldest of them, a certain blond Elf who was known as Finrod – started restricting maritime trade from Círdan’s lands. 

To restrict Círdan at all! Just how powerful did these Noldor become in such a short span of time?!

King Thingol sat upon his throne and Eöl would swear he has never seen his uncle so angry. But what is a king’s anger and pride against the clamor of his entire court, against the common Sindar elves whom the majesty of Menegroth relied on? The aristocrats and commoners wanted the repeal of the Quenya Ban, or a substantial easing of it, because they cannot trade with the Noldor, and with the Noldor surrounding Doriath from all sides, the Sindar cannot now reach their other trading areas! They were hemmed in! Hemmed in, and were in very real danger of starving!

Even Elmo, Eöl and Galadhon’s father, began speaking against Thingol, urging him to reconsider the very rigid terms of the Quenya Ban. The nobles moved for Doriath to re-open negotiations with Hithlum. 

Finally, even Queen Melian was forced to listen and advised Thingol so.

And Eöl watched, fascinated, as Thingol struggled and swallowed his pride, and agreed.

The missive asking for negotiations was dispatched through Commander Mablung, on his fastest horse.

[lesser evils / AO3]

[ladysternchen]

The metal biting at the hard earth stirs something in him, makes him almost -almost- feel. What he feels, he does not know, but it borders on sympathy with the cold forest floor on which he had walked for the best part of his life. Why, he feels the land ask, dost ye disturb my slumber? He has no answer to give, for the truth bites at his heart like the shovels at the ground. Why, it asks, do your thoughts stir me from my silent grief? The ground is frozen, unyielding. Try digging in this weather, he thinks, not even trying to keep the bitterness out of the words that sound only within his own head, whoever would think of dying in the midst of winter? At least there is not too much snow on the ground, despite the white flakes that sail through the air and settle on their hair and cloaks, but the bitter wind that had been howling for days blows the snow away. Does it blow souls away, too? he wonders, and feels another dull stab to his own treacherously, unfaithfully beating heart. It is their luck that they don't need to dig very deep, not with this way of a burial. It is almost scary to watch. Whenever, wherever Elves work, they sing. Their people always sing, they sing as they hunt, they sing as they walk, they sing as they fight. But they are silent as they work, like all is silent now. Deathly silent, he thinks, and suddenly feels a bout of hysterical laughter rise from his chest at the pun, cold and desperate as the wintery wood itself. He bites the laughter back and half wishes that tears would take its place. He has not cried a single tear. He should hurt, should mourn, he knows, but he cannot, cannot. It is too cold. High above them, the wind bends the branches of the beech, making them moan and creak, and yet the tree stands proud and untroubled, frowning down at their pitiful work, watching them lay the cut branches of birches on the ground. Why, it asks, cut living wood to waste on the dead? Elmo knows no answer, fingering the furs he too will waste with one hand, laying the palm of his other hand on the mossy bark of the great tree instead. He has ever loved thee. Keep him well. he begs. Keep him better than thou hast kept her, he wants to tell the tree, but does not. This bitterness belongs to him alone, and he despises it. His niece bears no blame in this, nor does she know aught of it yet. Will her flowers bloom on the grave, he wonders, when spring comes? He knows it not, for spring has long since abandoned these lands. He is alone now, with the preparations finished. He has never been so alone. The Forsaken, they had once called themselves. Now they truly were. It is folly to lay the warm furs out on the wood as if he were making a bed. Folly, folly. His thoughts reel. But the ground is hard, and cold, he pleads with his own mind. The dead feel no cold, it reasons back. (Maybe that won't be for AO3, but for @sindarweek. Would have fitted the locations-prompt, perhaps.)

[amethysttribble]

So how close do we think Luthien and her first cousin Galadhon were?

And I mean this question in earnest, ‘cause we know little to nothing of the House Elmo except insofar as they facilitate Celeborn and Nimloth’s existences, but like…

Did Galadhon and Luthien get along? How far apart in age were they? Did she go fishing with her cousin and Uncle Elmo? What’d she think of his spouse? Did Luthien make faces at his newborn sons? Did Luthien teach Celeborn to dance?

I’d like to think so. I think I’d like to think that Luthien was ever an odd, Eldritch duck, but Galadhon was one of the few people who treated her like a true person and they loved each other dearly. Yeah.

[conundrumoftime]

Galadriel and Celeborn in earlier drafts of LOTR (part 2)

Previous: here

Starting off with a passage that exists in LOTR but not in the earlier drafts, because I think it's really interesting in the context of even later developments. This is the section where Galadriel is telling Celeborn off for snapping at Gimli:

Do not repent of your welcome to the Dwarf. If our folk had been exiled long and far from Lothlorien, who of the Galadhrim, even Celeborn the Wise, would pass nigh and would not wish to look upon their ancient home, thought it had become an abode of dragons?

Because Tolkien changed Galadriel and Celeborn's story and particularly Celeborn's origin so much (thoughts and prayers for Christopher dealing with that when you can practically hear the sighs in his editorial notes), I don't know whether Tolkien was thinking of him as the Sindar prince-of-Doriath Celeborn that he became later. But if he was - and even if he wasn't, just viewing this in the light of that version of Celeborn - this feels like quite a surprising thing for Galadriel to say, since his folk have been exiled long and far from their kingdom and his ancient home is now ruins beneath the sea.

From one of the Unfinished Tales 'History of Galadriel and Celeborn' versions:

In Doriath she met Celeborn, grandson of Elmo the brother of Thingol. For love of Celeborn, who would not leave Middle-earth (and probably with some pride of her own, for she had been one of those eager to adventure there), she did not go West at the Downfall of Melkor, but crossed Ered Lindon with Celeborn and came into Eriador. [...] Celeborn and Galadriel therefore went eastwards, about the year 700 or so of the Second Age, and established the (primarily but by no means solely) Noldorin region of Eregion. It may be that Galadriel chose it because she knew of the Dwarves of Khazad-Dûm (Moria). [...] Celeborn had no liking for Dwarves of any race (as he showed to Gimli in Lothlorien), and never forgave them for their part in the destruction of Doriath; but it was only the host of Nogrod that took part in that assault [...] In any case, Galadriel was more far-sighted in this than Celeborn; and she perceived from the beginning that Middle-earth could not be saved from 'the residue of evil' that Morgoth had left behind him save by a union of all the peoples who were in their way and in their measure opposed to him. She looked upon the Dwarves also with the eyes of a commander, seeing in them the finest warriors to pit against the orcs.

There's a brief addition to this in The War of the Jewels where Tolkien goes even further on that to say that in blaming the Dwarves, Celeborn was 'passing over Morgoth's part in this (by angering of Húrin), and Thingol's own faults'. Not mentioned, but definitely also prominent in the list of People Who Have Wronged Doriath: Galadriel's own cousins, who invaded and burnt it and murdered a lot of its people. Blaming unrelated dwarves by association when your Noldor wife is standing right there is well goodness quite an approach; but I'm also intrigued by the suggestion that he refused to blame any of it on Thingol.

Anyway my point for this post is that with Celeborn's Dwarf Issues being very firmly placed (definitely later on if not at the time Tolkien was writing FOTR) as because of Doriath, then it's an interesting choice on her part to ask him to empathise with dwarves wanting to return to their once-glorious kingdom that had fallen into ruin just to look upon it once again. (This is something I've played around with in fic before, the idea that while Galadriel is torn between 'home' as Valinor where she grew up and 'home' as Middle-earth where she spent most of her life, Celeborn can't ever go home to the place where he grew up - it's as gone as Númenor is.

Anyway! Back to the early LOTR draft, and Galadriel tempting the Fellowship/testing their loyalty/whatever you want to see her as doing here:

She looked at each in turn, but none blenched. Only Sam blushed and hung his head before the Lady's glance left him. I felt as if I hadn't got nothing on,' he explained afterwards. 'I didn't like it - she seemed to be looking inside me, and asking me whether I would like to fly back to the Shire.' Each of them had a similar experience, and had felt as if he had been presented with a choice between death and something which he desired greatly, peace, ease [written above: freedom], wealth, or lordship. "I suppose it was just a test," said Boromir. "It felt almost like a temptation."

LOTR version:

And with that word she held them with her eyes, and in silence looked searchingly at each of them in turn. None save Legolas and Aragorn could long endure her glance. Sam quickly bushed and turned away. [...] "What did you blush for, Sam?" said Pippin. "You soon broke down. Anyone would have thought you had a guilty conscience. I hope it was nothing worse than a wicked plot to steal one of my blankets." "I never thought no such thing," answered Sam, in no mood for jest. "If you want to know, I felt as though I hadn't got nothing on, and I didn't like it. She seemed to be looking inside me and asking me what I would do if she gave me the choice of flying back home to the Shire to a nice little hole with - with a bit of garden of my own." All of them, it seemed, had fared alike; each had felt that he was offered a choice between a shadow full of fear that lay ahead, and something that he greatly desired: clear before his mind it lay, and to get it he had only to turn aside from the road and leave the Quest and the war against Sauron to others. [...] "To me it seemed exceedingly strange," said Boromir. "Maybe it was only a test, and she thought to read our thoughts for her own good purpose; but almost I should have said that she was tempting us, and offering what she pretended to have the power to give."

Gardens as Sam's temptation is also what the One Ring offers him, although that temptation is about Samwise the Great with a whole realm of gardens.

Which brings me to Nenya and the Three Rings for the Elven-kings.

This point in writing LOTR is also where Tolkien starts sketching out an origin for the Rings of Power and Sauron's connection to them. Origin stories considered include this one in which the elves made them but under Sauron's guidance:

In Ancient Days Sauron the Great contrived many things of wonder. For a time his purpose was not turned wholly to evil, or was concealed; and he went much among the Elves of Middle-earth and knew their secret counsels [...] [T]he Rings of Power were made by Elven-smiths, but Sauron was present at their making: his was the thought and theirs the skill

And this one in which Fëanor made them

In Ancient Days, the Rings of Power were made long ago in the lands beyond the Sea. It is said that they were first contrived by Fëanor, the greatest of all the makers among the Elves. His purpose was not evil, yet in it was the Great Enemy But they were stolen by the Great Enemy and brought to Middle-earth.

Christopher describes this as his father 'revolving the mode by which he should withdraw the Three Rings of the Elves from inherent evil and derivation from the Enemy', and talks about this in connection with this line of Boromir's from the first version of an earlier chapter:

"The Three Rings remain still. They have conferred great power on the Elves, but they have never yet availed themselves in their strife with Sauron. For they came from Sauron himself, and can give no skill or knowledge that he did not already possess."

But then back to Lothlorien, and a quickly drafted version of Galadriel's words to Frodo in which she says the Three were not made by Sauron:

Frodo offers Galadriel the Ring. She laughs. Says he is revenged for her temptation. Confesses that the thought had occurred to her. But she will only retain the unsullied Ring. Too much evil lay in the Ruling Ring. It is not permitted to use anything that Sauron has made.

OK I'm going to leave this one at that for now. Next time: Mirror, 'Many Partings', and the epilogue.

[chaos-of-the-abyss]

i want to know what happened to thingol's parents. clearly they were alive at the beginning of the great journey since elmo was born during it, but if i have my timeline straight, by the time thingol vanishes for years in nan elmoth, he's become one of the principal leaders of the teleri. does that mean his parents died sometime between those events? was full kingship and responsibility suddenly thrust on thingol with their demise? or was he already in that position even while they were still alive? we can extrapolate that he indubitably had a role of considerable influence and respect even before his parents' deaths, since he along with ingwe and finwe are the ones chosen to act as ambassadors for the valar -- which would have happened during a time when his parents were definitively still alive. on top of all that, when do they die? definitely by the time doriath is established thingol does not in the least seem to be someone whose mother and father are still living. hmmmm

[ceescedasticity]

Meet the Rivers of Beleriand!

After some recuperation time following their ordeals, they've put on fána and come to Aman to meet old friends and seek new homes in the Blessed Realm! They're waiting on some decisions of the Valar at Mahanaxar, but after someone accidentally washed out a road after a slap-fight with Eönwë on the Sauron subject in the meantime they are staying at the Palace of Ingwë in Valmar! Why Ingwë agreed with the Valar that the flooding would be less of an issue there is a fascinating question Queen Ilwen would love an answer to.

Meet the Rivers! (Interviewer: Ingwion Ingsuilo Ingwion, Fourth Prince of the Vanyar)

[Part One: Adurant, Esgalduin, Nenning]

Adurant

Of the Seven Rivers of Ossiriand and Dor Firn-i-Guinar

Tributary of great Gelion

Likes: Trees, pereldar, music

Dislikes: Orcs, getting pulled into the Sea when the subcontinent collapses even though your spring in the mountains is actually still there

Who are you most hoping to meet in Aman? "Dior! And Denethor — of the Nandor — I'd like to see him again, but Dior was my baby. —The other Ingwion said he'd sent for him. I hope he gets here soon."

What are you looking for in your new location? "I'm not sure! Somewhere with Dior or my Laegrim would be nice, but! I think I am uniquely qualified to be somewhere around Mandos!"

Would you like to say anything about the fána you chose? "It's reminiscent of a few of my favorite people, but I'm not making a statement. But I do think I'm doing better than average at not dripping on your nice carpets!"

What else would you like people to know about you? "Um, I'm not sure how much else there is to say about me! I was pretty lucky, all told — well, all of us in Ossiriand were lucky, and I was luckiest. My people got a lot of raids later on but it didn't touch me. I really could have stayed in Middle-earth, but… obviously things didn't turn out that way."

Esgalduin

Of Doriath, born of the Shadowy Spring

Tributary of great Sirion

Likes: Beeches, Holly, Grey-elves, Melian

Dislikes: Naugrim, Kinslayers, Men Invaders, dragons, spiders

Who are you most hoping to meet in Aman? "Melian most of all. We were close friends, I've missed her a lot. Also Elu, young Dior and Nimloth — Elmo and Galadhon — I have many, many people here. But I meant to go see Melian in Lórien immediately, except there were reportedly concerns about the roads."

What are you looking for in your new location? "I would like to dwell with my Grey-Elves — ideally with Elu and Melian as their King and Queen. If Melian needs me more than the Grey-Elves and means to stay in Lórien that is also an option, but I would hope she can anticipate Elu's return."

Would you like to say anything about the fána you chose? "It's modeled on Melian's fána, yes, except for the hair."

What else would you like people to know about you? "I have a tributary you won't hear much about — they fall from the mountains directly into Nan Dungortheb, and it… went badly for them, from quite early on. Their proper name is Nenbrass, though I'm afraid my people often said Esgalfuin. They have… some resentments. I'm hoping people will be understanding."

Nenning

Of Eglarest in the Falas

Likes: the Sea, Falathrim, ships, Noldor

Dislikes: Orcs, erosion, poison

Who are you most hoping to meet in Aman? "Many of my people are here, of course. And Brithon and I are both very curious about these Western Lindar. Though if I meet any individuals who objected to sending aid we will have words."

What are you looking for in your new location? "East of the Pelóri and directly into the Sea, definitely, though that may end up with less length than I'd prefer. I understand my people here have a settlement of their own, and either Brithon or I will pass by there. The other of us might go by this Swanhaven."

Would you like to say anything about the fána you chose? "I don't think there's much to say."

What else would you like people to know about you? "We were overrun and used as roads to attack our people. It was… distressing. But after we had nothing left to protect, when things continued to worsen — both of us, eventually, consigned ourselves to the Sea, and after that it was over. That wasn't a route available to to tributaries, and Sirion… wouldn't. —Also I apologize for the water. It should be less brackish now."

[aspenrockymountainhigh]

Celeborn was one of the noblest of the Sindar— who wedded the Lady Galadriel of the House of Finarfin and with her, he remained in Middle-earth after the end of the First Age.

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Celeborn was a Sindarin prince of Doriath,being the grandson of Elmo the brother of Thingol; thus, he was the grand-nephew of the King of Doriath.

In the early First Age, Finrod and Galadriel came to Doriath as guests of Thingol. There, Celeborn and Galadriel met, fell in love, and were soon wedded. Galadriel remained in Doriath with Celeborn after Finrod went to the Caverns of Narog to establish the stronghold of Nargothrond.

For the rest of the First Age, Celeborn and Galadriel are not mentioned to have played any significant role in the general course of events of the Age, while their relatives, both Sindar and Noldor, did. By the Fall of Nargothrond in F.A. 495, Galadriel passed over the Blue Mountains so it seems likely that Celeborn followed her although this is not known for certain.

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After the fall of Beleriand, Celeborn and Galadriel lived in Lindon for some time. Celeborn ruled the fief of Harlindon, which was composed mostly of Sindar, under High King Gil-galad.

Galadriel and Celeborn crossed into Eriador with many Noldor, Sindar, and Green-elves in their following. For a while, they dwelt in the country about Lake Nenuial, ruling the Eldar in Eriador, including the wandering companies of the native Nandor. Probably around S.A. 300, a daughter was born to Galadriel and Celeborn, named Celebrían.They departed for Eregion and arrived there by S.A. 750.It was ruled by Celebrimbor, grandson of Fëanor and the distant half-cousin of Galadriel.

It was only sometime between S.A. 1350 and 1400 that Galadriel crossed the Hithaeglir through Khazad-dûm and relocated there with their daughter Celebrían, becoming great among the Wood-elves.Celeborn decided to stay in Eregion due to his enmity towards the Dwarves.It is said that Celeborn fought in the Sack of Eregion leading the remnants of Eregion out of the battle. He and Elrond narrowly escaped to a dell, where the latter founded Rivendell.

After the War of the Elves and Sauron, Galadriel passed again through Moria with Celebrían and came to Imladris, seeking Celeborn.[8] There she found him, and there they dwelt together for a long time.Some time later, Galadriel and Celeborn departed from Imladris and went to the little-inhabited lands between the mouth of the Gwathló and Ethir Anduin.There they dwelt in Belfalas, at the place that was afterwards called Dol Amroth; and their company was swelled by Silvan Elves from Lórinand.

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After long journeys in Rhovanion, from Gondor and the borders of Mordor to Thranduil in the north, Celeborn and Galadriel passed over the mountains to Imladris, and there dwelt for many years.It was there, in T.A. 109 that his daughter Celebrían wedded Elrond Half-elven of Rivendell.

When Amroth, the King of Lórien, perished in T.A. 1981, Celeborn and Galadriel took up the rule of Lindórinand jointly, and were called the Lord and Lady of Lothlórien, the new name for Lindórinand, and together, they built Caras Galadhon.

During the War of the Ring in T.A. 3019, Lothlórien received the Fellowship of the Ring, composed of various travellers on the quest to destroy the One Ring. Celeborn and Galadriel offered advice and boats for the Anduin, sending them on their way. After the Galadhrim repelled the forces of Dol Guldur three times, Celeborn led the forces of the Galadhrim across the Anduin and took the fortress. Galadriel threw down its walls and purified the forest.

On 6 April,that was the Elven day of New Year, Thranduil met with Celeborn in the midst of Mirkwood and renamed it Eryn Lasgalen, "The Wood of the Green Leaves". With the forest now cleansed, it was divided among the Elves and Men; Celeborn took all the forest south of the Narrows and established East Lórien.

Celeborn attended the wedding of Aragorn II Elessar and his granddaughter Arwen, and on the journey to return, he bade a fond farewell to Treebeard as well. He and Galadriel escorted Gandalf and the Hobbits until the Mountains of Moria, and on 13 September they turned to return to Lothlórien.

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After Galadriel's departure, it is believed that Celeborn relocated to Rivendell to reside with Elladan, Elrohir, and some of the Noldor, having also grown weary of East Lórien.

At some unknown date, he sought the Grey Havens and sailed west aboard Last Ship with his mighty kinsman Cirdan the Shipwright, but when he did so, he took with him the last memory of the Elder Days in Middle-earth.

Art by zephyrAMerch

[welcometolotr]

TFO II | Chapter 13: give me your time

“Finwë keeps trying to offer me his own strength. Because I can’t do it on my own.” Elwë shook his head. “It just makes me colder.”

Enel sighed and reached out, laying his hand atop Elwë’s knee. The taller elf shivered and closed his eyes, subsiding and letting the gentle wave of familiar power soothe him.

“Does that hurt?”

“No,” Elwë sighed. “I don’t know why.”

Enel pulled back and shuffled several pieces of bark, resuming his work.

“Well, I’m not going to pretend I understood most of that,” Enelyë decided, leaning over towards them. “But maybe you should talk to Finwë about it rather than assuming what he feels?”

whee new chapters :) thinkin’ more about Elwë these days as well as his relationship with Elmo. there’s a reason they were considered ‘siblings’ more than any of the other Nelyarin wakers (aside from Enel & Enelyë in the first place). twinning! 

[carmisse]

The Elmo House.

Okay but one headcanon that my head has developed is the following; Celeborn and Galathil are cousins of Thranduil and Maeglin.

They are grandsons of Elmo, who had as sons Galadhon, Oropher and Eöl. They belong to the elven nobility of Doriath.

Galadhon, Oropher and Eöl were in fact close, although the youngest of them used to move away a little from his two older brothers to the point of going as far as Nan Elmoth where he finally settled and betrothed (spell) Lady Aredhel years later. This act was not consented by his brothers, widening even more the abyss between them. However, this does not prevent them from visiting their nephew accompanied by their own children, because Eöl is reluctant to leave home, they do not really comment on the subject because they want to avoid arguing and just look at the baby (Lómion) and keep Aredhel company.

Celeborn, Galathil and Thranduil wish to see the new baby as well as their uncle whom they say they miss. Lómion is extremely sweet as well as small, besides having the dark hair inherited from his mother, which in their eyes makes him even more special as it is a strange color among the elves of Doriath.

As time goes by. Only Celeborn and Thranduil visit Nan Elmoth. Not often but they try to do it near the onomastic of Lómion, being that the twelfth he already had the name Maeglin which turned out to be a pleasant surprise.

However, the meetings diminished when Celeborn married Galadriel while fulfilling an active duty in the court of Thingol.

Thranduil, on the other hand, began to form like his father. With this they also reluctantly distance themselves, Galathil still frequents them both however.

Thranduil was in with the refugees of Doriath, Celeborn was visiting him when Galadriel informs them of the fall of Gondolin and the death of Lómion. They both look at each other and soon after Galathil arrives.

They have lost too much if it, Doriath was destroyed, Elmo and Galadhon himself are dead, even Thingol was no more. They know the pain, but still they are unable to deal with the pressure in their chests as they shed tears for their little cousin whom they unwillingly stopped visiting.

That night turns out to be colder for them. They gaze at the stars as they recall their few memories they have with Lómion, his sweet smile as well as his born curiosity. He may be the traitor of the great Gondolin, but in their eyes, he was nothing more than the elfing they left behind.

[silvantransthranduiltrash]

Ok, so here’s the thing, right? In my au, the newer generations in doriath don’t know elu thingol is melian’s puppet, or that oropher is miriel’s dad, etc, etc. Basically they’re pretty oblivious, not due to their own fualt. But they’ve been purposefully kept blind and dumb. So i can imagine:

Celeborn, meeting thranduil for the first time, and only knowing he’s the son of oropher, who celeborn called uncle, post first age: well met, thranduil oropherion! It is nice to see that uncle oropher has finally found a partner to settle down with and have kids with! Let me tell you about stories of doriath and the elves from whence you decend! 😁😁

Thranduil, elwe and elmo’s babysitter who’s been living with his ma, daughter and the rest of the silvans as they, too, hold of morgoth’s advances: ....

Celeborn, oblivious to the fact the elf he is treating like an elfling is actually old enough to be his grandfather: 😁😊???

[kitcat22]

Thinking about a darkish au where Melian never allows thingol to leave Nan Elmoth. Maybe she senses his inevitable death so she keeps him imprisoned there out of a desire to protect him. Maybe she a little more evil and keeps him there in a desire to posses him. But they end up in an aredhel eol situation with thingol desperate to escape with his daughter and reunite with his family. It would be interesting to see what the first age would look like without them and how the tale of Luthien and Beren would change. Would Doriath still be built? Would Elmo be king of the sindar instead? How would he handle the the news of the first kinslaying and the arrival of the noldor in Beleriand?

Anyway i need to think more on this.