#either pre-canon because he was so worried about her or because it's a comical thing

[fullscoreshenanigans]

@goldiipond

Doodles

[spaceorphan18]

The Rogue and Gambit Project: Previously On X-Men... Gambit

It's time to talk about Gambit! The nice thing about Gambit is that he was, at the time, a relatively new character, having only been around in the comics for about a year. Which means there is way less to cover! Boy, are we going to have to deal with some questionable art, though.

The Basics:

Name: Remy Etienne* LeBeau

*Okay, so, this is the funny thing about the name Etienne. Apparently, it started out as fanlore, and - as so many things that happen in fandom - gained popularity as fanon from a particularly well known piece of fanfiction from way back when. I believe it's actually been used in canon at this point. It is on Marvel.com - which is the official site. I'll keep a look out for it to show up.

Also, in case you didn't know (and I'm sure you did), Le Beau is French for The Beautiful.

Backstory: Just like Rogue, Gambit's backstory is shrouded in mystery. He's a thief. He's from New Orleans. He's Cajun. That's all your getting for now. Don't worry, we'll peel back the layers. ;)

Power Set (via uncannyxmen.net):  interkinetic power allows him to produce bio-kinetic energy within his body and use it to convert any inorganic object's potential energy into kinetic energy on contact, making the object highly volatile and explosive on contact, internal energy also grants him heightened agility and creates static interference that shields his mind from detection

I should also give the obligatory comment of - these powers are toned down from his full abilities because of /reasons/ which we'll get to eventually. He had Mr. Sinister give him a lobotomy and, we've all been suffering the consequences sense.

Alright, let's dig into Gambit's pre-Rogue run...

Uncanny X-Men 266-267

Uncanny X-Men #266

I have to start by appreciating the fact that Gambit is a thief who wears bright pink and metal boots. It's a bold look.

Anyway, the funny thing about Gambit is that the character he turned out to be ended up being a lot different from creator Chris Claremont's initial ideas. Apparently, he was supposed to be, ultimately, a villain and, while he was supposed to be a love interest for one of our characters, it wasn't Rogue, it was... Kitty Pryde. He was also supposed to be a Mr. Sinister creation and a third summers brother. Yeah, I'm kind of glad Claremont left before any of this stuff really came to fruition.

Also, I once read that Claremont claim that original artist Mike Collins made Gambit too pretty. Which is funny, because ngl, I really am not a fan of the look in his debut, and it will be a while before he really earns his name.

Uncanny X-Men #266

I also want to note that Gambit's powers were a little different back then. He didn't have playing cards yet, and instead used metal spikes as throwing devices. The powers were designated in green. And were charged from his eyes. Also, interesting to note - his eyes aren't red on black yet, either.

There's also 'hypnotic charm' thing that was kinda used in the early appearances. He does use it in his first appearance to tame some of the Shadow King's Hounds.

Uncanny X-Men #266

He's gonna be calling her 'Stormy' for years. She's gonna love it. ;) (Btw - he calls her Stormy 4 times in this issue alone.)

Okay, so... Gambit shows up, crossing paths with Storm at a mansion of some rich person. Storm is de-aged (for... reasons) and is running from the Shadow King and his minions. He's busy stealing art from the rich dude (who apparently is not home and has no security, lol).

And thus, one of my favorite comic book friendships is born. And really, this first appearance is a lot of fun as Gambit and Storm play off each other's strengths to get away from the Shadow King.

Uncanny X-Men 267

Jim Lee is going to add some of Gambit's more iconic features -- such as throwing playing cards (Gambit's Ace of Spades shows up in this next issue) and using some kind of staff (hilariously, it's a broom in this issue).

Storm and Gambit's adventures continue. He takes her to New Orleans for a while so she can recover from the Shadow King. They go thieving -- playing Robin Hood -- stealing from rich people because they can. And then the Orphan Maker comes along, who makes Storm a teenager? (Idk - the whole thing is weird - she'll become her real age again in the next story arc.)

Uncanny X-Men #267

And then Storm is like, hey, I have a crazy idea....

Uncanny X-Men Annual #14

Fun fact: Because of release dates and such, Uncanny X-Men #266 wasn't the first comic released to have Gambit in it. The Annual technically came out first, though it clearly takes place after Uncanny 266-267. But this is the first time we see Gambit among the X-Men team. Not that he does anything remotely interesting during this whole thing. He doesn't even speak, kind of hides awkwardly in the background.

X-Tinction Agenda (Uncanny X-Men #270-272; X-Factor & New Mutants)

Uncanny X-Men #270

Welcome to the X-Men, Gambit! Hope you survive the experience!

He's in the credit roll now, must be official. ;)

Gambit joins the team just as the mega X-tinction Agenda crossover starts. (Uncanny X-Men joins New Mutants and X-Factor for this one) And, I'll be honest, this isn't one of my favorite crossovers. The whole thing revolves around the nation of Genosha, how they're using mutants for slaves, and how all the teams come together to change the status quo. And of course, mutants get capture and tortured and a few killed. Fwiw X-Men: The Animated Series did do this storyline.

Uncanny X-Men #270

Gambit and Cable don't (won't) get to cross paths very often, so I found this an interesting panel. Anyway... Gambit really has very little to do during this crossover. When Storm gets captured, he is really concerned for her (as he considers her his partner at the moment) but he's not really vibe-ing the whole team dynamic yet.

Uncanny X-Men #272

This is arguably the coolest thing Gambit's done as of yet. Dude pulls a spike out of his leg to use as a lockpick and gets himself rescued. I'm glad they give him this, because, again, for the most part he's just kinda hanging around in the background not doing much.

I will say - he and Jubilee get to cross paths, which is going to be a source of fun in the next arc.

Space Shenanigans (Uncanny X-Men 273-277)

Uncanny X-Men 273

Some of my favorite issues are when the team is regrouping. Post- X-Tinction Agenda, it's clear that things in the X-Office were changing. Claremont is at this point sort of being pushed out, while Jim Lee and Co are becoming more the driving force behind the books. On panel, the teams are kind of merging. X-Factor's first era is drawing to a close, and the X-Men are resolidifying after being in flux for so long.

We're about to get a Space Soap Opera, as Claremont so dearly loves, but this issue is a bit of a breather between the arcs. And we get this bit of tension between Storm and Gambit - where Gambit is ready to move on, but Storm is back on solid footing again. They don't explicitly state why Gambit sticks around, but he definitely does...

Uncanny X-Men 273

I swear, this is Chris Claremont's favorite joke. He's used it before this moment, and he'll do it again. It's impactful the first time, but it does get old the more Claremont does it. However, we get the first highlight of the dynamic between Gambit and Wolverine -- which will be antagonistic for a while, but is fascinating.

Uncanny X-Men #274

Doesn't Gambit look sexy in his yellow team uniform?? ;)

Btw - as I mentioned earlier, this is the first issue Gambit and Rogue appear in together. Though they be miles and miles and miles apart.

Uncanny X-Men #275

The whole crux of this arc, that I've been kind of ignoring, involves Xavier being brainwashed in space (or something) and of course the X-Men get involved in space politics (again). Honestly, space stories are Claremont's favorite trope, so it doesn't surprise me that the end of his run are filled with a couple of them.

Anyway -- if there's one person impervious to Gambit's charms - it's Jubilee. They get to hang out a lot during this arc, and it's really delightful since they team up to kind of figure out what is going on with Xavier acting weird and all the odd space kool-aide people are drinking.

Uncanny X-Men #277

I actually really like this cover. Gambit's got a sword and a spear! Plus, he looks like his 90s cool self now. The blue and yellow uniform doesn't suit him AT. ALL. But we don't have to deal with it too much longer...

Uncanny X-Men #277

See... I told you Claremont was gonna do this again, lol.

Uncanny X-Men #277

The nice thing about this whole space arc is that Gambit really gets to come into his own. He now looks cool (note the red eyes are here!). He's doing fun stuff. He's taking on Wolverine and holding his own. He's being smart and tactical and an asset. They've paired him with some great X-Men to start off with, and it's paying off.

Meanwhile, we don't really know much about him. As many of the other characters state, his background is shrouded in mystery... (whether you like what it actually is can be debated as we get to it). But for now, he's intriguing as a new comer.

And this is where we're at as two story lines come crashing together and our two romantic leads get to meet for the first time.... off panel.

But I'll get more into that next time when I discuss... The Muir Island Saga!

[dailycass-cain]

Batman: Wayne Family Adventures gave us a NEW Cass-centric arc.  It FINALLY released in its entirety this past Wednesday so yeah, at long last I'm gonna dig in and my thoughts on it!  

Season 2 of WFA has given us a lot of Cass in appearances (sixteen of the so far forty-eight episodes released) though unlike Season 1 Episodes 90-91 is our first official Cass-centric dramatic story this season.

And it is a double salvo of treats.

First off we get a team-up of Cass with Damian. Something we've barely gotten in the comics. Literally, Gates of Gotham is STILL the only time these two have teamed up.

That was in 2011. We're in 2023. HOW IS THIS STILL THE ONLY CANNON TEAM-UP we've had between them?!

Yes, they've interacted more since 2020 (three times compared to just twice prior to that, and I'm being kind with one of those interactions).  So yeah this episode is already doing things the mainline hasn't broken ground on.

But as always WFA gives us the dynamic barely teased in the main line (but is laser-focused here), the big sister Cass worried for Damian on their mission who breezes how easily it'll be given its Mad Hatter they're dealing with.

Just like recently in Batgirls #16, there is an underestimation of the Hatter that in this adventure costs Cass as she's brainwashed to be his weapon. Hatter's dialogue in part 1 is our first real insight to criminals in Gotham know about Cass.

This is something NEVER brought up in the mainline comics nowadays (probably due to DC's fear of acknowledging either origin of Cass). So we're in this "Schrödinger's bat" situation where both are her origin, but are not shown.

Here, it's quite clear probably which origin is canon to WFA (more on that soon) as Cass is used by Hatter to kill Damian. For all Damian's own fighting skills well, this is the first comic mention of him acknowledging her and actually caring about her.

Like literally, this episode fully continues off the last Cass-centric episodes we got all the way back in Season 1 with Episodes 32-33 “All Seeing” where we saw things thru Cass's eyes. Here we see again how the family views her via Damian.

But not only that, this is Cass's greatest fear come to life (per "All Seeing" her being used as this weapon and not a person). Again writer CRC Payne just DELIVERS with the emotion by having the emotionally reserved Damian pour out trying to reach Cass.

I have to give major props as well to artist Geoniya Acuna too. The emotion is drawn in both characters' faces. The change in Cass's eyes when she's switched into "weapon mode".

All of it is just *chef's kiss*.

That jaw-dropping ending is a good lead into part 2 where we see the war in Cass's mind trying to take back control.  

And here we get the series showing us her origin for the first time. And oh my.  I so wasn't expecting to see this bastard again:

Due to DC not acknowledging which origin of Cass's is the defacto one has left David Cain in a curious state.  Because if they go into the old one he's like above.

If they acknowledge the newer one, he's basically Donnie Yen as Storm Shadow.

So it just shocks me to see WFA go for their take on the original origin. It's simplified and that's the point Payne having Cain talk to Cass this episode.

I don't see it as Cain actually talking to her, more a mixture of Hatter's mind stuff and Cass's own insecurities taking shape. Until she remembers a CERTAIN someone who she met when she was lost. 

Again, the episode takes HEAVILY into Cass’s old Pre-New 52 origin acknowledging Babs took her in (and the crowd who ache for this version of a mature Barbara go wild). I know you stood up and cheered when WFA went there.

Because of that, Cass starts to break free of the mind control. Remembering more the bonds she forged. Remembering the identity she took and if anything this is where the one slight I have for this issue.

The episode gives us the first ever clear look of the top section of Cass's Batgirl outfit.  I had to pause reading it, and was like "Gimme this WFA. I want to see this suit in action. You don't tease me like this."

This is the only negative I ever give WFA when it comes to Cass/Tim due to their troubled histories in mainline DC Comics. WFA is like, an all-you-can-eat buffet acknowledging it all.

By showing it, you do the Orphan identity a disservice. Literally, we're 99 episodes in, and the only time they've acknowledged "why" Cass adopted this identity was as a joke.

I get "why" it was added to the series. It was the identity Cass had at the time.  But the creators of WFA have done their own "rebranding" of the identity. Giving Cass a scarf or cape to the costume. A different mask than the one she wears in the comics.

I get it. It's because for script purposes it allows the creators to have her outside the mask and be more expressive.

It's just that... 

You tease us fans by showing this suit. You dangle that Batgirl crumb over us. You're just gonna make us want more of this WFA Batgirl costume now (after dancing around it last season).

Now I want it.

I want to see this costume in action. I know Acuna can handle it. Give them the chance someone!  Give us the Batgirls episode this series NEEDS!!! You just don't tease us Cass/Steph's costumes and expect us not to want MOAR!

Cause we do.

Back to the story, these moments break free from Hatter's grasp and we get that righteous beatdown he's so deserved for daring to do that to Cass (along with a cute sisterly moment of Cass picking Damian up).

Like, again the series does what the main line hasn’t. Given us this moment of the two (given their similar backgrounds) being there for one another when moments like these happen. 

Even more, a cute exchange after all said hijinks. 

These two episodes again were a nice sequel to the last Cass-centric arc paying off seeds that began there and we get some rich moments here.

The only thing is the Batgirl-in-the-closet problem which continues to hamper the series.

But I digress that's my own minor nitpick. I can fully admit and cast aside my own "fandom" to say WFA is doing the duty it can showcasing ALL the Bats why they have such loyal fans.

This was another amazing chapter that WFA just seems to pull for their female cast and I'm glad there's this balance between overtly cute, but also educating the casual fan to those not given the light previously shined on them.

That said, I think it's time for another Harper Row arc. She's overdue for one being introduced this season.  Just give us that perfect bookend for the character with another stellar arc.

The creative team knocked another home run with this Cass arc.  Kind of leaves me just wanting more. 

Am I greedy? 

Yes.  

But it shows how good this creative team is feeding that fan side to me with these characters. Make that crave occur. So yeah kudos to them. 👍

This was an amazing arc giving us things I wish the actual mainline DC Comics would give us. Something I feel is an untapped field just aching to be dug into and mined.

[carnivorouswillgraham]

Aight here's a norayemma ask.. How/when did they realize how they felt towards each other, and how did they confess?

AUGH OK UHMB

it is my personal opinion that Ray has- more or less- always known about his feelings towards the other two. even if he didnt know they were romantic per say, he's always known that they were different.

i tend to be all over the place with the confession thing. no matter what i can't ever see ray confessing first due to guilt or self hatred or not wanting to make them feel like they Had to accept him or whatever.

i think norman has always known that he's loved emma. with the pretty stringent gender roles at grace field, it's easy to imagine that similar sentiments surrounding straight culture we see nowadays would be present there- if only much more minorly. so it makes sense to me to think that, based on what he's read and learned from his older siblings, he would have always presumed/known his love from emma was romantic. while i do think he has loved ray for around just as long, i dont think he'd realize until post lambda that his feelings were romantic. i think his feelings for emma and her just. overwhelming brightness would have kind of blinded norman to ray if that makes sense? since ray knew the secret, he always kept to himself so, while they were all still friends of course, it would make more sense that norman wouldn't realize just how attached he was to ray, especially considering there was no type of. almost desperate trauma bond sort of attachment like ray had for them since norman lived in ignorance the whole time pre cannon. so ray was just his quiet distant friend. i think being away from ray and emma would show norman how his feelings were similar because he would miss them in the same way. again, it was different at grace field because he overwhelmingly lived in ignorance there, but once there was more pressure and fear and just. generally stronger feelings. norman would realize a lot faster that he loved them both the same way. this comic by vinokurin_purin on instagram sums it up pretty well lol.

emma is a bit harder for me for whatever reason, while i do tend to think they wouldnt ever "officially" get together, in cases where they do, it would never be pre human world, so i always tend not to worry about emma much since she would have to start over basically😭 it's very common for people to write her not realizing her feelings for the boys were romantic for a very long time (whether or not she realizes post canon) because she just loves her family that much so i tend to lean towards that because i'm used to it lmao. so i tend to see her only realizing her feelings for the boys either like- when one of them confesses, or when someone else in her family points out that it's not normal to think/do x thing about/with them iykwim? i reallyyyy enjoy writing her re-getting to know them and falling in love with them all over again post canon so. do with that what you will.

[scandalsavagefanfic]

Hello! I am a huge fan of ur writing. I've loved everything I've read of yours. I've read alot of what you've posted, except for a couple of the tags that are squicky for me (so I'm very thankful you tag very thoroughly). No judgement for the squick, it's just not for me. & when I'm having a bad day, I usually just go thru ur ao3 and find something to reread. I think about Therapy's Bruce & Jason every damn day. While I obvs appreciate ur darker more "problematic" content (I really vibe with some of the themes you write about bc of my own trauma, & so it's very cathartic to read about in a fictional setting), I am truly a sucker for ur more happy content. The Happily Ever After verse also lives in my head rent free. Idk more wholesome stuff just seems more special when you write it. Anyways. I would die for you. But the point of this ask is cause I'm curious as to why you don't like Urban Legends? I'm sorry if you already talked about it here or on twitter and I missed it. I was just wondering because I really enjoy your take on things and would love to hear why you dislike it. I've been enjoying it so far personally, but I am always open to DC comics criticism.

Aw thank you so much! I'm so flattered by everything you just said. You're so sweet ❤❤❤❤❤

I haven't talked about Urban Legends here or twitter (I haven't been very active in either place lately. Just a lot going on and no energy 😔) but I'm happy to do it here.

Before I start though, I just want to add a standard disclaimer and make it clear that if you like it, there's nothing wrong with that and you don't have to let me ruin it for you lol. Like what you like.

That said, since you asked...

I said this when I was talking about it on discord, that there is a difference between hope and expectation. I always hope that a new story centered on Jason (or anyone really, but things have been especially egregious for Jay for 15 years) will be good or at least treat the character with a minimal level of respect (to be honest, the bar is super fucking low). But my expectations always temper my hope, to keep it from getting unrealistic. Because my expectations are based on experience.

The long history of Jason Todd, since even before his resurrection, has been one of retroactively trying to make him "a bad seed" in order to absolve Bruce of any responsibility in his death.

I don't even expect DC or their writers to start honoring the fact that Jason was not an angry, reckless Robin (and less of the later than Dick or Tim and definitely Damian). There plenty of ways that retcon can be folded into his history and be compelling and sympathetic. And if they're going to stick with that retcon, I'm only asking that they do it in one of those compelling and sympathetic ways because Jason was 15 when he died, heroically, in one of the most selfless acts in comics, to save a woman who literally handed him over to be brutally murdered. He was 12 when Bruce plucked him off the streets, he'd been homeless and fending for himself for at least two years. I personally think that Jason's story hits harder for him and Bruce if their original, canon relationship, of Jason as starry-eyed and eager to learn and absolutely devoted to Bruce and Bruce to Jason, is preserved. But Jason's origins does leave room for a meaningful interpretation of him as angry and frustrated at the lack of meaningful results of Bruce's methods.

And that's really where my irritation at stories like Batman: Urban Legends, Cheer and Batman The Adventure Continues has it's roots.

Every time one of these stories comes out, I think (or hope, rather) that this will be the one that remembers and respects the origins of the Jason and the Red Hood, that takes into account the changed sensibilities of comics readers in the 30 years since Jason's death and the subtle, 20 year, retroactive campaign to make him the "bad Robin". The "born bad" trope is played out and literally no one likes the message it implies. That some kids are just bad eggs and there's nothing parents or the adults around them can do. Especially when it's played as the kid's fault. If Jason's time as Robin is going to be characterized by anger, then it should be rooted in anger at the social injustices he witnessed as he grew up in an impoverished, crime-ridden, area and the horrors he faced raising himself when every day was a battle for survival. There are topical, meaningful, stories to tell with that backdrop.

But those are never the stories we get.

⚠⚠ Spoilers for Batman: Urban Legends, Cheer ⚠⚠

I'm particularly disappointed in Urban Legends because for the first issue, it looked like that was the kind of story we were going to get. I was put off by the first flashback of Jason being mesmerized by Bruce's guns, and I got that feeling in my gut that it was a bad sign. Jason depicted as impatient and overconfident and the scene with the guns is heavy-handed foreshadowing that got my spidey-sense tingling. I had a inkling then (in the first three pages) of how this story was going to play out, but it was early and I could still see many narrative paths that could lead to a satisfying story. My concerns were soothed somewhat and the little flame of my hope fanned, with the flashback of Alfred scolding Bruce, with Barbara's concern for Jason. A bit of worry returned with the way Jason ruthlessly pursued an addict who didn't appear to be a dealer and with the ending of the issue. The stuff with the addict sat wrong with me but the ending was tempered some by how despicable Tyler's dad was written. The scene was clearly set so that the reader could sympathize with Jason's decision and the scene with the addict could be brushed aside as a side-effect of comics over-the-top need for constant action, so I still held hope.

Issue 2 made me uncomfortable and it's where my hope starts to take a backseat to my expectations. I can dismiss Jason's self-deprecating internal monologue as unreliable narration, except that the flashback reinforces his thought process to explicitly show that it's not unreliable narration, and should be taken at face value. Jason faces physical abuse at the hands of his mother's drug dealer and when the flashback continues later, Jason kills the drug dealer. To be clear, this is a pre-Bruce Jason. His mom is still alive. He's like... 10. He kills this guy for shoving his head into a wall and implying Jason's mother paid for her drugs with sex. This is a scene that serves a single purpose. To show that Jason has always been prone to violence.

In the spirit of full disclosure, there is the small chance the drug dealer might not be dead. But the story obviously wants the reader to think he is, and it hasn't done anything to change that yet.

Starlin already did this story with The Diplomat’s Son in 1988 and he did it infinitely better. AND that’s still technically canon. So now I’m supposed to believe that Jason lost his cool bad enough to kill two douche bags before his sweet 16? Like it’s totally normal for abused kids raised in poverty, who’ve led hard and heartbreaking lives to just... haul off and kill people? That’s bullshit, and when taken with the Jason in the third issue, who is little more than an idiot thug, this story is really doubling down on some fucked up stereotypes.

Which brings us to the most recent issue. I went into this installment with very low expectations. I thought this story was going to be about Jason, through this experience with Tyler, a young boy with a similar background to Jason's, coming to the realization that Bruce's way is the best way and that Bruce did his best by Jason.

That would be annoying (in no small part because it takes increasingly absurd levels of plot armor to keep Bruce's no kill rule relevant, let alone irrefutably right). But I can probably live with that, if only because maybe if Jason officially falls back into line with the Bats crusade, maybe I'll get stories that treat him with respect, stories that don't relegate him to comic relief, dumb brute, or a background body with no lines in a story about the Joker burning Gotham (like Jason would just fucking stand there quietly for that).

And that may still be where the story is going, Jason realizing Bruce is right.

But holy shit do I not have the right words to describe how fucking insulting and gross issue three is.

From start to finish--including the flashback--Jason is written as cruel and fucking stupid. Like straight up dumb.

The entire issue is Bruce explaining the fucking basics to Jason like it's his first day. And Jason flies off the fucking handle and terrorizes a doctor he knows isn't a part of making the Cheerdrops, beats the shit out of some random addicts, and finally, when he can't accomplish anything on his own because he's a dumb brute he calls Barbara for help and rushes in with no information where he's promptly incapacitated and must now wait to be rescued by Batman.

This panel is the least of the issues sins but I can’t screenshot the entire story but it’s representative of the tone for the whole issue (and retroactively tainted the prior two issues).

This is beyond insulting. The only conclusions Jason comes to in this issue are the ones Bruce leads him to by talking to him like he can’t make the simplest connections. And like... in this story Jason can’t make the simplest connections.

This (and the Jason throughout the entirety of this issue) is a far cry from the Jason we fell in love with in Under the Red Hood, who was competent and strategic and intelligent enough to seize control of Gotham’s underworld from Black Mask (who’s no fucking slouch, he’s the first and only person to unify organized crime in Gotham) AND elude and manipulate Bruce until the time and place of his choosing.

This is a far cry from even the Red Hood and the Outlaws Jason who is competent enough to fight the League of Shadows and Ra’s al Ghul (among very dangerous and skilled others) and smart enough to create antidotes for mind control nanotech viruses.

As he should be, by the way. Jason Todd is one of the best, most comprehensively trained fighters in DC’s stable of non powered vigilantes. He’s not irrational or hot headed. He’s pragmatic, tactically minded, and patient. He’s a detective. Right now. Has been since he was 12. Bruce doesn’t have to make him one because he already is. 

Jason is not a stupid thug who uses his fists because his brain doesn’t work. And I can’t tell you how so very exhausted I am by this narrative. 

This is actually the most egregious example of Jason’s skills and intelligence being not just undermined but dismissed entirely. Even Morrison’s Jason had some degree of competency. 

The one, single redeeming factor of this story is the art. It’s beautiful. And Marcus To is a godsend he seems to be one of only a couple of artists who remember that Jason was a child when he was Robin and I’m literally only buying this book because of him. 

Anyway, I’m sorry. I didn’t want that to come out so... um... passionately lol. I’m just very very tired. My intention with this isn’t to ruin it for you, if you like it, that’s fine. 

But this issue shot this story to the top of my "Vehemently Despise” list. 1) Batman: Urban Legends (Cheer), 2) Battle for the Cowl/Morrison’s Batman and Robin, 3) Batman The Adventure Continues.

I hope the next issues somehow salvage this dumpster fire. But I’m not expecting it.

(Damnit. That sounded harsh again. To reiterate, I’m not trying to judge anyone who enjoys it, I just personally hate it and you asked me why lol 😅)

[thattimdrakeguy]

Future State: Robin Eternal looks ... disappointing.

I have such mixed feelings about the Future State: Robin Eternal thing, that I don’t fully understand.

That is Tim as Robin, which makes me insanely happy, and even the costume he’s going to have in the future isn’t too bad either. No toed boots or short sleeves from the looks of it, which is what my fav Tim costumes have, but it is in the future, so I suppose it fits that idea.

The cover is even pretty nice, it’s the future, but yet Tim doesn’t look ultra old, you can tell he’s older, but I assume young looking for his age. Which is also pretty nice. That’s in-character.

But then I read the summary--

And it becomes instantly worrying-- for me at least. I don’t know anything about the writer, so I can’t judge her, or be worried or anything, but it’s Eddy Barrows that gets me really worried.

Because he drew for Detective Comics Rebirth, and his Tim has mixed results.

He’s not the worst Tim artist-- but he’s one of those artists that doesn’t seem to know what a teenager looks like, let alone a smaller one like Tim, because he makes him the same size of a 24 or so year old Dick Grayson. And Tim’s face can go from a little boyish (when he should be babyfaced) to looking like he’s a 35 year old man.

Which given Future Event I assume takes place in the future isn’t COMPLETELY BAD, but I don’t see Tim having another growth spurt when he’s still being confused for a twelve year old kid when he’s near 18 in the pre-New 52 comics. So his art doesn’t fit Tim’s aesthetic at all. He’s supposed to look quite a bit younger than his actual age. Unfitting art can really bring down the whole experience.

And given this is Tim’s first comic where he’s the main character without a team with him in years, it’s just disappointing that way. There’s just a natural want to have something a bit better when it’s been so long.

Then the plot doesn’t really feel like it’s about Tim at all, it’s about one of those over the top blockbuster stories where the characters come second.

Except that is-- for what seems to be yet again ANOTHER story where Tim and Steph presumably get back together, despite the fact their relationship never been a good healthy one, besides when it’s written as generically as possible, or as ignorant about itself.

So it just feels like a waste of what could’ve been good potential.

It’s obviously not out yet, so I’m not judging anything. I’m just worried about it, since it seems like things aren’t going to add up well. The story is ridiculous, and the artist doesn’t draw Tim that well. It’s not a positive development.

It’s really satisfying to see Tim still as Robin in the future 100%, but I don’t know. With this being his first comic where he’s the main character, primarily acting as a solo of sorts, it isn’t the sort of thing you want to see basically when it comes to the other things.

Never been holding out for a Tim solo at all, so seeing the cover at all was pretty exciting-- but this ... I’m not really going to get my hopes up out of blind optimism over what identity he has and how cool the cover looks when the rest doesn’t seem to be that good. It’s at least not a present day canon thing I suppose if it does end up very bad-- which it might not actually end up. Just feels and seems that way.

Maybe it’ll be a shocker, or maybe next time.

I lost my excitement about as fast as I got it. it’s something I’ll probably read when it comes out, but ultimately won’t have much hype for.

Can only speak for myself though.

[bokunoheroanalysisforthefuture]

Alright, chapter 8! And man is there a lot to talk about here. I don’t really have any pre-content things to say, so we’ll just hop right into it today!

[No. 8 - Rage, You Damned Nerd]

I swear, this first page has a LOT to talk about on it, so I’ll go from panel to panel and do some rambling thoughts on each segment. 

First off, UA doesn’t actually handle the costumes the kids get! It’s support companies affiliated with the school that does - which makes sense, since the school has to focus on teaching their support students before letting them get their hands on actual costumes that these kids might be fighting in.

I mean, they seem to be allowed to practice on like, minor support stuff (read: Mei making Izuku his new gloves post-Nighteye or somewhere around there) but not full costuming, which is… actually a bit reassuring? But also explains some of the lag time in getting costume repairs / upgrades since they’re probably busy companies. It also explains why there probably aren’t major alterations to any costumes besides between the summer and winter variants, since it would be time-consuming to remake these costumes so regularly.

(It still doesn’t excuse some of the costumes the kids got, but that’s more on the whole ‘eye candy’ thing for readers than actual practicality, so whatever.)

(Also, I can’t get over the fact that Snipe has a support company. Fucking Snipe. Guess we know another canon or likely-canon Support teacher.)

Next we get a preview of what the kids sent in for specifications for their costumes:

We get a bit of insight into a few of the characters - as background stuff, we get Shouji, Mineta, Aoyama, and Sato. Mineta got pretty dunked on for char design and costuming, and Aoyama’s costume almost looks like a magical girl outfit like this, which honest to god would have been fantastic to see him in. More interesting (at least to me) are the other three: Ochako, Tenya, and Katsuki.

Ochako first, because that pressure point thing is interesting, and I dunno how often those actually come up in fics besides a passing mention, like. What if her support bracelets / neck piece broke during training / a mission / whatever? Would she suddenly have to fight through the nausea? By the point of current canon (War Arc) she’s probably trained enough that she doesn’t need them as much, but man, it could be an interesting little thing to explore, like, post-Kamino.

Tenya is a bit surprising, since we know he comes from a well-off hero family. Logically, this was before the whole Hosu / Ingenium plotline was really developed, so Tenya didn’t have that to fall back on, or it could be argued that the support company that Ingenium is associated with also works with UA. Alternatively, it could be that either Tenya didn’t want to rely on his family (which seems silly when they’d know how to work with his quirk best) or UA is very firm on ALL costume stuff going through them…

But then again, Katsuki. Oh god, Katsuki. What fucking support company looked at this kid and went ‘yeah we should give him a way to store more explosives AND give him bombs’ and just. Did so. Why did UA not vet that. Maybe the support company didn’t realize how strong his explosions were without the gear, but UA, man, I just. I suppose they had no way of knowing how reckless he’d be with them, but honestly, after the battle trials, they should have been fucking yoinked from him so damned fast. 

Anyways, onto other parts of Katsuki’s costume, we see he’s a fucking dork. Possibly what lowered their guard. ‘Something scary’ and ‘Dynamighte all over’. What the hell, kid. At least your designer stuck close to your design… including the huge-ass clunky gauntlets. Man, the Musketeer Trio movie poster ones are so much better looking and so, so streamlined. Works of art, they are.

Moving on, we get a bit of a flashback to ~three weeks ago, which by the calendar would be around March 20th? So a few weeks after the Entrance Exam. And Izuku is only NOW getting around to updating the quirk registry? Izuku baby seriously, how the FUCK did none of the UA staff notice the ‘quirkless’ on your application form at any point before this?

But yeah, he’s worried about his registry, so he calls Toshinori, who explains the update process. It gives the example of someone who might alter their stuff with updated information, with one or two allowed - though major ones aren’t accepted. Toshinori then says it’ll probably be okay since he started with nothing, then tries to correct himself to ‘definitely’, only to get cut off because Izuku accidentally hangs up in a panic when Inko calls out that she’s home. Haha poor Toshinori, and poor Izuku, the two anxious dumbasses. 

Anyways, moving on from that is Inko showing off the jumpsuit she made, with Izuku surprised. She admits it’s not the coolest, but she based it off of the design in his notebook (the one we saw back in chapter 1). She tells him she regrets giving up on him back then, and how he never quit regardless of her faith. She apologizes and says from there on she’ll be cheering him on with all she’s got. 

Izuku’s narration notes that it’s a symbol of his mom’s love, and that he couldn’t wear anything else, even if it’s not ‘efficient’ or ‘cutting edge’. (Or even at all decent looking.) And it’s also hinted through the present thoughts on it that it’s meant to be an homage to All Might (the smile and the hair pieces) which is just such a dorky thing.

We get to the wide-spread of hero costumes, which- wait a second.

That’s Momo’s initial hero costume design???? Why did Hori not stay with that??? It’s a LOT better than the stuff we’ve seen her in later! Like, sure, it’d still be improved with the main opening being her stomach and not her chest, but this still looks like actual human clothing and not a sexy Halloween costume variant of her hero uniform. Fucking hell, now I’m even more mad.

Tsuyu’s costume meets the approval of the discord server as basically ‘no changes needed’ asides from maybe the goggles being a bit bulky.

Tenya’s costume, I’m sorry, I know it’s an homage to your brother / family, but were the additional pipes really needed? Also, the helmet isn’t a bad idea since he goes fast, and bugs in the mouth/teeth have to suck, but it just looks so damned Gundam-y I can’t help but laugh a little.

Shouto… nah, too easy a target.

Aoyama is Aoyama. I’m actually a bit disappointed now that it’s not a magical girl costume, but alas, I suppose even Hori couldn’t be that brave.

Kaminari… I forgot he had that headset thingy. 

Don’t really have much else to say about anyone else, so let’s move on.

Izuku bugs out a bit about Ochako’s costume/appearance, while she compliments his more practical looks and laments not being specific, saying it’s a bit too puffy and curvy for her. Which means it’s more the accessories which seem to be her issue with it over the main costume itself? Huh.

Anyways, after All Might confirms they’re all there, he notices Izuku’s headpieces, which are a match to his costume, and has to turn to muffle a laugh for how obvious a reference it is. Tenya steps up, asking whether they’ll be doing cityscape maneuvers again since it’s the same field used in the entrance exam. Izuku thinks to himself how cool Tenya’s costume is, while All Might explains that they’re moving onto step two - indoor anti-personnel battle training!

He explains what while villain battles are most commonly seen outdoors, statistically the worst crimes and villains are more likely to be found indoors. Confinement, house arrest, black market deals… the clever villains luck indoors to avoid heroes. Which is why the class will be split into teams of two and pit against each other, heroes versus villains style!

Ah, Tsuyu. Calling him right the heck out, as expected. All Might then notes that in this scenario, the fight won’t be against disposable robots. 

This entire page is just fucking hilarious. The class and all their questions while All Might is shaking with nerves. The fucking cheat sheet he uses to try to get back on track. Him being questioned on the lot drawing, and shaking while Izuku accidentally ends up covering for him. I just. All Might was not prepared for this mess and it shows. He was doing so much better when it was the one on one stuff with Izuku.

But yeah, Izuku notes the scenario is like from a western comic plot, and he’s also the one who ‘realizes’ the lots are like when heroes from different agencies have to team up for emergencies without prior warning. 

Lots are drawn, and we have our teams:

Izuku’s so stressed out because he still can’t really talk to her, while she’s excited to be teamed up and calls it ‘fate’ that it happened. All Might draws the first two teams to participate, and… team Izuku and Ochako (as the heroes) versus team Katsuki and Tenya (as the villains). Both Izuku and Katsuki are alert from this development…

Which makes this a good point to cut off, since it’s halfway through and we got a lot of information to chew on already. Second part should be out this weekend (hopefully). 

[bestworstcase]

farran rereads lost lagoon: chapter 13

- *sigh* dahlia.

- i’ve got to admit, at this point i really just... don’t care. about these characters. my vague memories of thinking this was an alright book but not really my cup of tea and with some very questionable moments wrt to the handling of the saporian issue have morphed pretty rapidly into. i flat out do not like it. there is no aspect of this story that i’m enjoying. the characterization is poor, the plot is falling down, there’s no tension, the prose is passable at best, and i’m getting very tired of reading conversations that feel like they were written by an AI. so i’m going to press pause here, because i don’t want this reread series to just turn into me bitching about the things i don’t like, and do a little autopsy. 

let’s talk about varian and the seven kingdoms for a minute.

for the uninitiated, v7k was a varian-centric tts spinoff comic proposed by a couple of tts storyboarders, which disney chose not to pursue. it was developed as a fan project for a while, fell by the wayside for other projects. semi-recently the plot outline, some worldbuilding notes, and character concepts were all made public and the crew members involved gave the fandom carte blanche to do whatever with it. 

now! the interesting thing about v7k, and the point of this little tangent, is that because much of the development process happened during s1, a lot of the worldbuilding is contradicted directly or indirectly by tts canon and some of the characterization choices feel... incongruous with the way tts s3 ended. i’m not going to get into that too much, but it seems to me that v7k and lost lagoon have a problem in common, and that problem is that they are stories that diverged from the main trunk of the story that inspired them but are still pretending to be canon compliant, to their own detriment.

some of you may remember og bitter snow, which began as a pre-s3 speculative fic about what cassandra might have encountered in the HOYT and spiraled into a kind of cass-centric s3 rewrite... which stalled out about a quarter of the way into the story i had planned because i ran into a similar problem: i was writing a s3 au that was ostensibly canon-compliant for all of s1 and most of s2, but the direction i wanted to take the story just didn’t fit naturally on top of canon s1 and s2... my options were to start retconning things from canon after ~20k words of implying canon compliance, or to force the story i wanted to tell to stay within the boundaries set up by s1 and s2, and i didn’t want to do either of those things, so i stopped and started over completely from scratch with benighted. 

v7k began with the intention of being licensed fanfiction, and lost lagoon is licensed fanfiction, so they both needed the disney stamp of approval, and that meant they couldn’t take the revamp bitter snow approach of going ‘my city now’ and just changing whatever pieces of tts they needed to to make their own stories make sense. they had to fit their stories into the canon framework as best they could while ignoring or glossing over the inconsistencies and pretending it all fit together in a logical way. 

and i think this is why lost lagoon is so very boring. 

lost lagoon is marketed as a prequel to tts s1, but that’s not really what it is. only the first third of the novel actually takes place before tangled: before ever after. the rest of it is supposed to take place in the empty spaces between episodes of s1, and—because this is licensed fanfiction that needs to meet a certain threshold of being plausibly canon compliant—that means it can’t do anything that would meaningfully disrupt the story of s1. the events of lost lagoon cannot be big enough to influence any of the episodes of s1 that take place concurrently. the plot of this book must be absolutely self-contained, or else the thin illusion of canon compliance falls apart. 

hence: rapunzel has no problem keeping the lagoon a secret from everyone, despite her refusal to keep the black rock excursion a secret mere pages later. hence, the ultimate reveal that the secret ‘power’ hidden in the lagoon is that it represents shampanier’s and der sonne’s love. it’s hard to have an interesting plot about intrigue and mysteries and such when you have to tip-toe through a series of light-hearted fluffy character establishing episodes instead of just writing your own story.

so i do have some sympathy for ms howland. i do. i think she probably did the best she could, story-wise, within the restraints that were imposed on her by the existence of tts itself. i would probably write a boring story given those same restraints to. 

*deep breath*

- anyway, cass and rapunzel do market stuff, the dahlia jealousy subplot gets seeded, and then we head to xavier’s, where he shows them some daggers whose key features are being extremely light and able to “cut through armor as though it were paper.”

no 💜

- blah blah they ask xavier about the henge(?), it’s a saporian “ceremony circle,” blah blah. they show him the lost lagoon book and he waxes on about how rare and special it is and how “even those cartographers who made it their life’s mission to chart every inch of this kingdom” couldn’t find the cenote that cass found in a matter of hours because she is just! that! special! gag.

- xavier gives the date of the saporia-corona war as “more than two hundred years ago,” which i am taking to also mean “less than three hundred years ago.” i had actually forgotten that the gave a semi-hard date for all this nonsense so. ha. ha ha. ha. this is fine

- in this telling of the tale, shampanier steals der sonne’s journal with the intention of using the tunnel maps to invade the capital city, but she finds his confession of love at the end (“he was head over heels for this strong, intelligent woman” GAG). frankly this makes a teeny, tiny bit more sense than the story as told in under raps, where shampanier and der sonne duel for hours before she... randomly reads the journal? but then again—if shampanier herself infiltrated the coronan palace to steal herz der sonne’s personal journal, why did she not simply assassinate him in his sleep?

- xavier describes shampanier as “the ruler��� of saporia, implying saporia was an autocratic stratocracy. remember this. it will be important later. 

- der sonne and shampanier’s marriage heralded an “era of unity” during which they “joined the countries together to create corona as we know it” and there was an “explosion of romantic poetry” during this time, with the lost lagoon being “one that really captured the people’s imagination.” 

- the only thing i’m going to say about the saporia stuff for the time being that is that if this doesn’t scream conquerer propaganda, i don’t know what does. but we’ll get there, don’t you worry.

- they are interrupted by the entrance of xavier’s assistant, marco, who is so transparently a bad guy that i really can’t do anything but laugh. xavier is like the ancient power is definitely one hundred percent not real and cass immediately bustles rapunzel out of there because she’s annoyed, which is fair, i’m also annoyed. 

- there is a character named monsieur lafleur and i am choosing to believe that this man is tromus, because this book is sorely lacking in the demons department. 

- queen arianna randomly walks in at the end of the chapter to make cassandra nervous and remind us all that cass is worried about her role in the black rock excursion getting out. i resent this scenelet because it reminds me that i could be watching tts instead. i miss tts cass. a lot. but anyway that’s the end of the chapter. 

[sullustangin]

Satele and Theron: "Not Mother” and Son

Note:  As always, fan fiction is everyone’s sandbox. I may disagree or critique them, but it’s not personal.  I’ve been through ship wars, characterization debates, and ‘author intent’ arguments since the days before AOL and IRC chatrooms. I’ve seen a lot, and I tend to take a detached view toward fandom.  It’s not my intent to kill anyone’s joy. 

**

Sometimes, when I think about SWTOR fandom and pro/anti Satele factions, I can’t help but remember this reddit thread:

I got a girl pregnant and she wanted to get an abortion but I didn't want that. She ended up not getting one but now she is not involved at all

Shorter version on upworthy for TL;DR.

Basically, Dad is resentful of child he wanted because, after requesting that the mother not get an abortion, she gave up all custodial and parenting rights to him.  Now he doesn’t like being a single parent and refers to her as a “deadbeat mom” because she’s not involved with the kid....even though she told him up front she wasn’t going to be involved and didn’t wish to be involved. Satele is sometimes villainized because she made this decision -- and stuck with it.  

I don’t think Satele is a good mother or a bad mother.  She didn’t want to be a mother at all, so I won’t label her that way.  Biological fact: yes, she is a mother.  However, that’s not the role she has chosen to fulfill for Theron; she opted out on Day 1. 

Based on what we read in Annihilation, Satele gave up Theron at birth.  Zho became his father.  She never had any intent of raising this kid.  Satele did not wish to become a mother, but as a Jedi, from the second she felt his presence in the Force (because all life has a Force, whether or not they can sense it or use it), she felt obligated to have him.  I don’t know what, if any, canon references are made about voluntary termination of pregnancies in the SWTOR universe.  Maybe more people  than just the Jedi hold the belief that termination is unacceptable, maybe not.  I don’t know.  That said, Satele made her choice at Theron’s birth not to be a mother.  She did visit him until he was six months old (Lost Suns comic), which might be interpreted in a few different ways.

Is it regret? Thinking about changing her mind?  Or is it that continued obligation?  I might speculate that she was sending/bringing breast milk, since for the first six months, children rely on their mothers’ immunities until they can get vaccinated; it’s part of why it’s recommended to try to breastfeed if it’s possible for the mother.  This is SWTOR so for all we know, sci fi space magic means that babies can be vaccinated once they pop out.  Then again, maybe it is like it is in our world.  Still, Satele can be a decent human being and not want to be a mother at all. 

Also, just because she wasn’t pregnant anymore doesn’t mean that the symptoms magically disappeared; even if a child is a stillbirth, the mother still produces milk.  Often, they are suppliers for hospital milk banks because they still have milk production even if they don’t have a baby.  Satele likely had to cope with this and avoid being detected by the Jedi Order; it had to go somewhere!  Satele was ultimately unwavering in her belief that giving up Theron was the best decision for him and her.

Remember too that Satele’s mother Tarsiele got pregnant with no publicly known father.  There are good odds that Satele doesn’t know who her father is, and it didn’t bother her.  So she didn’t tell Theron or Zho who Theron’s father is, because she assumed Theron would be Force-sensitive and join the Jedi order.  Satele wouldn’t have wanted him to have the connections to Jace since that would complicate his Jedi training; it’s ok to know who your Jedi parent is, since you both exist in the Jedi order with limited attachments -- you’re both on the same page.  Adding a non-Jedi father to the mix complicates things and feelings, especially given Satele’s concerns about Jace falling to the Dark Side -- and potentially dragging a Force-Sensitive child with him.

The only thing I think I can fault Satele for is not informing him or Jace, after finding out Theron was not Force-sensitive (which she knew after the kid was left at Haashimut).  Theron totally struggled with his identities when younger: he was raised to be a Jedi like his mother before him, but it turns out he’s like that nameless Force-null father.  Whoops.

But Satele made her choice not to parent this child.  She may have felt that coming back to tell him about Jace would be meddling or giving Theron false hope that one or both parents would swoop in and save him.  We’ll get back to that in a second.

Cut here so it doesn’t eat a dashboard: below is some critique/analysis about the padawan system and how it may have fed into Theron’s expectations of a relationship with his mother before he was found to be not Force-sensitive and after.

As for Satele and her padawans, I’ve never been a huge fan of her being a “surrogate mother” or “cool aunt” in fan fic. It’s not my cup of tea, personally.  In part, it’s because I stick to the idea that Jedi don’t want people getting attached and hesitating about doing the right thing; that includes masters and padawans.  Masters don’t raise padawans like children. Based on what we see in the films, they’re raised in the creche with other younglings. It’s like boarding school or an orphanage in the sense that there are staff and people who care for the kids, but they are not parents; they don’t form those connections.  The Master then picks the padawan when they’re ready.  We don’t have apprenticeships in the modern world like we did in the pre-modern world, but when someone was apprenticed to someone else as a blacksmith or a tailor, they knew they weren’t their kids.  There was a relationship there.  There was a care system there.  But that didn’t replace a parent-child relationship, nor did it supply the attachments in such a relationship. In terms of masters and padawans, sometimes attachments and relationships happen, and we hear about a Master falling to the Dark Side and taking all their students with them.  Ideally, attachments and inappropriate relationships do not happen.

This ties back to Theron’s hopes for a relationship with Satele and what they were/are/will be.  Theron probably hoped to become her padawan one day or encounter her as a fellow Jedi; not being Force-sensitive killed that dream.  If Satele had gone to him after Haashimut, she would be adding insult to injury by meeting him or writing a letter to him, telling him about Jace... and then walking back out and going radio silent, not taking him home with her. 

If she had told him, that might lead to Jace being the dorky dad we all love to imagine, but what if he didn’t?  I love Jace!Dad headcanon, but that’s all it is -- headcanon.  He might have ‘noped’ out of the situation.  He might have said “Here’s a trust fund, I’m busy.”  I want Jace to be Super!Dad and I’ll write him that way when it comes to grandkids and stuff....but I won’t ignore the other possibilities that exist (and may exist in fics that are not mine!).  Given Satele’s original thoughts about telling Jace about Theron and vice versa, she may have considered this too. Also, telling Theron about Jace may have been the equivalent of dumping a baby on his doorstep with no escape route -- that’s not fair to Jace, no matter how much we like to believe Jace would have been “w00t!!” over it.

Theron and Satele worked together several times.  Theron told Satele and Jace and the Pub player in SWTOR that he understands her choice, and he’s not angry.  He’s dedicated his life to SIS and the people of the Republic; personal stuff comes second (which is why he’s the emotional disaster we know and love, but also one of the best agents the Republic has).

That doesn’t mean he doesn’t worry about her or care about her.  Feelings are hard to deal with for Theron, but he still has them. That was evident from his reaction to the Tython raid (because he did not know that she was not on Tython at the time).  Also, his first impulse thereafter was to give her a Holo call; the player walked in on the end of that on Pub side Forged Alliances.  Theron Shan cares about people; he’ll do a lot for them even if they don’t like him back, as we see with Teff’ith and (pending game choices) the player character. However, that doesn’t mean that he’s clamoring for a full-fledged relationship with Satele as mother and son.

Rather, Theron is bothered by the fact that Satele never acknowledges him; we saw that on Rishi and Yavin, especially on Imp side.  He’s "her agent.”  Even Jace acknowledged Theron on Iokath, as unhappy as Theron was about the staging of that proclamation. He does seem bothered by Satele’s disappearing act after Eternal Fleet with no notice to him (and still no word nearly 10 years after that event in-game). 

I don’t think Theron, who is now approaching 40, wants a parent-child relationship with Satele; that ship sailed.  He just wants to be acknowledged as meaning something -anything - to her. It’s not unlike adult adopted children finding their birth parents and wanting some acknowledgement of existence and connection, even if they had the best adoptive parents in the world and neither party wants to be besties. That sort of acknowledgement would have eventually come if he had been her coworker as a Jedi or padawan...if he was Force-sensitive.  

That twist of fate affects Theron more than his lack of relationship with either parent; he got dumped by “his father” Zho for that.  His bio parents didn’t do anything to “punish” him for turning out the way he was -- Jace didn’t know, and Satele already made her choice, regardless of how Theron was going to turn out.  She hoped and predicted he’d be a Jedi.  She didn’t change course, because she accepted the consequences of her decisions made 14 years before.

As a result of this, I don’t write Satele  as a cold or cruel human being. I’m more inclined to go on a “wtf Master Zho” crusade; Theron calls him his father and hopes he would be proud of him, but I blame Zho for Theron’s attachment and emotional issues (whatever labels you assign him; I go for avoidant). Satele made her choice and stuck to her guns.  She never wanted to be a mother, and she’s never pretended to be otherwise.  Satele never offered Theron false hope about their relationship.  She can’t be a deadbeat mom if she never committed to being a mother at all; she gave him up.  She gave up the relationship.  That did not exclude the possibility of becoming colleagues or friends as adults, which we saw progress toward.  The relationship between a mother and child compared to that of colleagues/friends is not the same. 

Satele’s departure after Eternal Fleet hurt Theron, because as adults, they did have a relationship, as professional as it might have been.  People feel awful when they get ghosted, no matter how brief or deep the relationship was; from what we can tell from his mail,  Theron referred to it as caf and lunch a few times. Theron still experienced a feeling of loss when she was gone, evidenced by the cantina scene on Odessen, and concern for her well-being after that camping trip in KotFE Ch. 12.

That did not mean Theron mourned her like a child who lost his mother; it may have simply been the death of another dream of a relationship, not unlike the alienation from Jace and (pending headcanon and in-game choices) the loss of the player’s character after Eternal Fleet.  We’ll see how Bioware continues/finishes that relationship between Theron and his “not mother”, likely at the player’s choice (just like the relationship with Jace on Iokath and with the player).

[marta-bee]

On Fanworks as Commodities

I've been thinking lately about commodification and how it applies to fandom.

 At the risk of giving an unhelpful circular explanation, commodification just means treating something like a commodity when it really isn't. And by commodity, I mean the kind of good or service that it's the kind of thing we can "reduce" to market terms. A loaf of bread is a commodity. So is a house or the services of an accountant- you're not losing anything or "debasing" anyone when you suggest these things can be bought and sold.

 But what about surrogacy pregnancy? This is the question Elizabeth Anderson asked in her philosophy paper, "Is Women's Labor a Commodity?" (This is where I first encountered the concept.) She asks what exactly is being sold when we pay a woman to go through a pregnancy and then give up the resulting child to someone else. Anderson said if it's the child that's being sold that seems obviously inappropriate- we rightly consider a human person as the kind of thing you can't just buy and sell- but she also argued even if the woman is just selling the use of her body for a period of time (say, implantation and surrogacy pregnancy of a fetus conceived through in vitro fertilization of the adults who will become the legal parents), there's still something lost. The argument is, pregnancy naturally (at least usually) forms a loving bond between mother and child, which a surrogate woman would wisely try to avoid; otherwise giving up the baby would be that much harder. In effect, it encourages her to alienate herself from the products of her pregnancy. It degrades the commercial surrogate, turns her into an emotionless, contextless factory. And it degrades women who might lovingly serve as surrogates (say, for a sister or friend) because it turns their gift into something indistinguishable from a market transaction.

 That's the argument, anyway. Once I found it convincing but these days, I have my doubts. For instance, I don't see any problem saying commercial surrogacy is a different kind of process than surrogacy offered as a gift to someone you know. Even if the result is the same, they seem like very different beasts. I'm also uncomfortable with this idea that certain kinds of work just can't be ethically paid for. Because this usually comes up with "caring" work, which is most often done by women even these days, it becomes too easy to not help bear the costs of that work. We can expect, say, a nurse to care about her patient even though she's paid a salary; is it so wrong if a child who quits her job to care for a sick parent to also be paid for her sacrifice?

 That's more a criticism of how the concept is applied, though. I think it's applied too quickly, and in ways that turn it into an either/or, where this doesn't need to be the case. I still think the basic idea has a lot going for it. We do give the market too much power to answer questions it really isn't well suited for. Healthcare, for instance; it needs to be paid for, but not in a way that keeps people from accessing it who need it, or even lets those who can pay get to it more quickly. And maybe market pressures can make it more efficient, to a point, but we really shouldn't reduce it to something that can be bought and sold and understand entirely on those terms.

So, what does all this have to do with fandom? Well, I'm of a different fannish generation than a lot of you young whippersnappers- I first got involved in fannish circles with the Lord of the Rings movies back in the original 2000s. This was pre-AO3 and pre-Tumblr, and only a few years after Anne Rice got ff.net to disallow all fanfic based on her novels. We posted our disclaimers about not owning the characters for a reason and professed our poverty because we believed (or feared at least) we could be sued by the canon's authors. I was mostly in the Tolkien fandom, and it was well known that the estate was never going to authorize fanfic, commercial or otherwise. They state as much on their website, though I can't remember how long that Q&A has existed in its current format.

 That gave us a lovely little commercial-free zone. If you couldn't sell your own work commercially, then you could give up all pretenses of success along the normal capitalistic lines and delve into areas that just would never have been very marketable in traditional publishing. Tolkien fandom itself was pretty conservative but I know other fandoms went much further in this regard, exploring genres that just would never be marketable especially before the niche and self-financed publishing the internet opened up for a lot of authors. If the law wouldn't let you do what you wanted to do anyway, why not become utterly ungovernable? So, fanfic became (for me at least) art about art rather than filthy lucre. We were doing what we did because we loved it, and as gifts for our friends, and as a way to be something that wasn't quite allowed in the "normal" culture for whatever reason- even just because we were women daring to make time for our weird little hobbies. It was glorious. And we worked hard enough in other areas of our life that we had the $$$ to indulge in this. We didn't need to be paid, and even if you offered to pay us for our works, we'd likely get a bit insulted and insist that wasn't what this was about at all.

I was told more than once by family that I was good enough to be a "real writer" and didn't I want to do my own thing. So yes, I did get a bit miffed and lean in to my identity of fanfic-writing as hobby not intended as a career.

 And I'll be honest: when I see people advertising for commissions or celebrating fan-authors going "professional" as if this is necessarily a step up from unpaid fannish work, I often have this old framework in the back of my head. And it's not really fair. For one thing, I was in college in the early 2000's and so even when we didn't have a lot of cash, we expected to soon get day jobs where we could afford to live comfortably and still afford our hobbies. The housing market crash and the Great Recession changed all of that, as did work opportunities like Instacart and Uber. For a lot of people even a few years younger than me, everything became a side-hustle and there just wasn't this expectation a hobby could be a hobby. I get that there's a lot of privilege entering into that.

 On top of which, there's all kinds of gender issues: professional artists, predominantly men, have been painting and selling drawings of comic book characters for years. Star Trek and Star Wars affiliated novels, and Sherlock Holmes pastiches (as opposed to fanfic), again written primarily by men, are also very much a thing. Hell, so are Renaissance artists and the patron system that was built off of. And of course, just because you sometimes produce fanworks just to sell and still do the less commercial work just for yourself if you ever want to. There's no real conflict in that. And it's not like producing art to sell is at all wrong. But to me it does feel like that kind of art is different than what I fancy I do, back when I occasionally wrote. :-) And I probably am more aware of this than I should be, because my backdrop is different from a lot of fans younger than myself, and really do try not to let my situation turn into a blind spot.

 Even so, I worry and struggle to find the balance between letting art turn a profit and be reduced to a strictly commercial venture. It's never been anything I've been even remotely drawn to do, and human nature being what it is, I probably do think more highly of the kind of thing I'd choose to do. But I don't want to be unfair, and I don't want to think just because art is paid for and written/drawn to order, it's some sort of assembly-line output with no heart put into it by the writer and artist. Just like an artisan shoemaker might take great pride in his art and work his hardest on each shoe he crafts, even if he must sell it to make ends meet. Somehow, I suspect thinking about this in terms of commodification, the dangers of evaluating artistry using market standards and the ways in which it can still have a value beyond commodity even if it’s bought and sold, might help. But I've not quit worked out what insight that kind of thought would provide, if any.

Do you think there's a special value in fandom or art generally that's not made to be bought and sold? Or am I perhaps making too big a deal over nothing and revealing myself to be an old fuddy-duddy in the process. (It's always a possibility!) I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts if you have any to share.

[whirlybirdwhat]

Accidental Family Man Au

remember that one ask where I talked about some projects? This is one of them. Enjoy dad franky!

So it begins with Franky – a back alley repair in the illustrious mechanic city of Water 7 – a miracle engineering city, they call it, with intertwining roads of cars and rivers. Venice, if Venice was made of concrete and had a road system above its water system, twisting above houses and everything.

Franky used to be one of those engineers that created those miracles, but an accident later, and he’s the scourge of the city and half bionic, making his living in back alley repair shops where you either pay with cash or your life.

He never said he was a good guy, did he Ice Burg?

 He still has connections though – and these connections lead to Iceburg, and to the Straw Hats.

 Iceburg’s the mayor, of course, and while he doesn’t care much for his public image, he knows that if he starts accepting money from shady kids who showed up to his doorstep possibly covered in blood with a woman who he swears he’s seen before beside him, that maybe Water 7’s people will take a hit for harboring criminals.

But hey, He knows a guy already doesn’t he?

So he sends these kids and their broken van down to the Franky House to see if he would fix their beloved, broken, van.

The Straw Hats never reach it, because the woman (Robin) gets kidnapped and a fight breaks out, leading to the separation of the group,

So the story really begins with Franky and the little broken down RV called The Going Merry, previously belonging to the kid who’s standing in front of him, begging him to fix it.

More Hcs Below cut including actual dad Franky stuff lol

That kid is Usopp, and he’s asking because Franky’s the only repair man in the illustrious city of Water 7 that will possibly accept the cash that Usopp has to offer.

He doesn’t.

Instead, he attempts to kick the kid out and gets kidnapped in return.

Oops

 So, Franky’s introduced to Ennies Lobby one of the worst places this side of the country – where people go and never come back, and hey, whats this kid doing kicking down the door?

Safe to say, Franky is rescued, and learns a little more of their story.

And Safe to say, Franky sees the woman they are going to save (him, and a bunch of teenagers and some 12 year old brat) and he near damn falls in love with her on sight and definitely does when he actually talks to her.

They save Robin, and start running – of course, Merry the van is just barely struggling to save all their added weight but they make it but also merry’s totaled.

So Franky shows them his pet project, The Thousand Sunny, supposed to be his super get away, home a way from home rv but with a few modifcations… the Straw Hat Gang has a new home. And a new crew member.

Franky learns everyone’s stories and about all the absolutely shady shit they are into. He learns he fits right in.

 And then… then the moments start happening.

He helps Usopp fix up the Sunny, and teachers him about cars and such. 

He and Chopper start bonding over bionics and medical shit that went into building his body. 

Zoro and him geek out over comic heroes (this, at least in zoro’s part, is canon the big nerd.) 

He helps Nami out with some headings and listens to her troubles. 

Sanji and him go fishing one day and it’s the most surreal experience of Franky’s life because this teen is in a three-piece suit and catching giant fish out on the shore of some lake? What? 

Franky gives Luffy advice and pulls him out of fights and shows him cool robot things.

 And its two months in when Franky realizes – here is it actually typed out lmao

“In all honesty, Franky doesn’t know how it happens.

Well.

He has a vague idea.

(Can you save her? Please? Merry’s the best.)

But still – tracing the events that led up to him frantically calling Ice-for-brains at one am in the morning at a near abandoned gas station on the west coast was a hard task.

“Hello?”

Finally.

“Ice-for-brains,” He starts using the familiar name.

“Flunky? The hell? What are you calling me now?”

“Iceberg.” The use of his real name quiets him. He knows this is serious. Franky takes a deep breath, and exhales, saying the next words in a single breath. “I accidently became a dad to six crazy teenagers. Help.”

…

“Goddamnit bastard-berg this is no time to laugh!””

AND THEN HE GOES ON TO HAVE MORE DAD ADVENTURES INCLUDING:

Organizing the kids at Sabaody Park

being emotional support for all these kids trauma please world, give them a break

doing his best to say no to allowing luffy to swim with sharks but giving in anyway

being a component (aka fierce menacing bodyguard) in his daughter’s nami’s schemes

breaking up fights

 Attempting to ground known criminals who may or may not be stronger than him

Modifying the RV so that they can have Brook and Jimbe on it as well

“MCDONALDS! MCDONALDS! MCDONALDS!”

Overthrowing the government in at least three different countries because his kids wanted to

Doing experiments with illegal fireworks on Usopp’s behest

“Do you want to play catch” “Franky that’s dynamite that we found in the stach what the fuck- “Do you want to play catch” “…Yes.”

Explaining Safe Sex to teenagers who have biggers worries such as the government

Teaching them all how to drive. He thinks hius heart has popped out of his chest.

Snoring loudly on their tiny couch and everyone just dogpiling on him

Also I had this in my notes

So that’s a thing that’s going to happen!

Uh anyway uh PART TWO – THE OTHER FCKING STRAWHATS

Note: Everyone is aged down three years from pre TS ages  to enforce the fact that 1) the government is fucking nuts for assigning bounties to these kids in this au 2) give more dad moments as while we all need a dad in our lives at any age it gives me more plausible reason here 3) plot related issues and the fact that this story takes place over several years and 4) the image of a 14 year old taking down the government is hilarious to me.

So.

Moving on.

Luffy – 14 years old and an absolute bastard

Luffy grew up in the port city of Fuusha as a way for Garp to keep an eye on him because of his family connections and make sure nothing bad happened to him -  didn’t quite work out.

dads a terrorist, his brothers a world class criminal, his gramps is an abusive piece of shit but also weirdly protective marine officer, his family’s complicated. 

 he grew up in the seedy underbelly of the city and made friends with a lot of criminals (who helped him get out because hey that five year old who used to steal our food is a brat and maybe we should help him get out before he becomes to chaotic (too late) and becomes our friend (also too late) )

Among these criminals are Shanks, who wanders through once in a while, Buggy, begrudging friend,  Jimbe, because he has connections, Crocodile, because this brats a bastard, and Rayleigh, among others.

Annoys them to make him his friend, continues annoying them afterwards.

 He just thinks they’re neat.

Luffy leaves two months after Ace, his brother under Dadan’s, the local gang leaders, roof, leaves because Ace can’t tell him to stay behind anymore

but the govt got word now he’s on the run – Coby helps him escape

As such, Luffy grows up with a very very skewed moral compass as in canon but a bit more, and now literally is almost ten times more feral as he should be.

  His goal is now to do whatever he wants, without people telling him what to do or that he can’t do that – He’s going to be free, damnit.

Franky understands and learns over time to adjust his Parenting Skills accordingly

Zoro – 16 and illegally owning a motorcycle because he thought the best way to improve his skill was to go out and hunt down people to fight, and of course he needs a motorcycle to do that, doesn’t he?

 He was pulled over for speeding then taken in for being underage

 He is also caught up in some bad stuff (fight circles, bounty’s, etc. this kids 16 and breaking grown men’s spines.)

Then comes Luffy who was also arrested for dine and dashing and is in the back seat.

 Luffy, who after the police car pulls over, punches out the police officer, unlocks Zoros cuffs and tells him “Drive”

 So they drive

“Hey, hey Zoro. Join my crew. It’ll be fun.”

 “Anything you say captain”

 knows Luffy for three seconds and is immediately down to murder with him

 Its great

He wants to become the greatest sword fighter still, which is still a thing in my fantasy modern world, so anyway, picture this 16 year old going up to you and tell you to fight but he has a sword in his mouth and in both hands and the most dangerous look in his eye.

 He and Luffy immediately rob a sword shop to find him new swords after they meet, it becomes a thing later on where they will steal (horribly, they literally crash in through the window every time because they have no subtly) something small from each city they visit. 

Nami - 15 year old pick pocket in the city where luffy and zoro stop, just trying to scrap up some money to pay off her family’s debt.

 Bellmere’s still alive damnit.

Nami thought Zoro and Luffy were police originally (because they are driving around in stolen police car) and tried to pull the ‘oh officer help me’ card when the people she stole from chased after her

 To her surprise, it was two kids her age in the front seat.

Luffy: “get in”

 she gets in

they dont talk about it

The people who were chasing her was Buggy’s gang who Luffy waves at as he goes by

 Buggy sends a message to Shanks which is essentially “hey that brat u liked is still alive”

And Shanks is like “oh thank god” not knowing the terror he has unleashed upon the world

A month later Arlong has mysteriously disappeared and the Bell-mere farm is flourishing while the second daughter becomes a world class criminal.

 Bell’meres never been prouder and it gives Nojiko a great conversation starter.

Usopp’s 14 and lives in a trailer park called syrup alone

Has a business where he sells odd herbs and such, passing them off as anything that will get him some money – think of it as Toad Oil from Wano but with some popgreens and such mixed in.

His goal is get enough money to stand on his own and leave the park but its slow going. And then…

 Luffy punches the heck outta the creep that was creeping on the owner of the park, kaya, and think’s Usopp’s stories are super cool.

Usopp wants to go with them, to explore the world With Luffy.

At this point, the Straw Hats have realized that driving a stolen police car around is a bad idea

so they take the huge van - a gift from Kaya named The Going Merry, and set off, using Nami’s stolen funds to get them by.

Sanji - 16 year old who longs to be a chef with the best food and just wants to feed people who need it

He hates government cause they don’t feed people and has a lot of petty grudges and helps Zeff run a lot of kitchens to help people.

 He’s still the Sous chef of the Baratie and still has a penchant for kicking unruly customers around. Baratie has a less then stellar reputation for service but the food? The best in the land.

 He feeds Luffy the food.

  Luffy likes the food.

Luffy kidnaps Sanji

Zeff worries about it but he can’t do jack since he actually is not Sanjis legal guardian (he kidnapped the kid first on accident after they both were stranded. He still tries to call anyway, and is proud of the change his son is making in the world. He’s currently working to get suspicious government people off his back about his missing Sous chef with the unique curly eyebrow…

Anyway, Sanji becomes the cook for the strawhats and is really happy because everyone likes his food and he can help anyone along the way and send business to the baratie

Its a good deal for him, and with all the places he visits his skill grows as a chef.

Chopper - 12 year old prodigy who really wants to be a doctor but both his legal guardians are out of the way

Hiruluks dead and Kureha, against her will because she’s still beautiful at 100 dammnit, is in a nursing home trying to break out

 Chopper has nowhere to go but still tries to pursue his medical career, and this fucking twelve year old does so by patching up people from bar and gang fights.

The Straw Hats pick him up and Usopp hacks into a govt control thing to sign him up for online medical course

Kureha’s proud and gives him a book of pressed cherry blossoms that was Hiruluk’s

  He cries

Chopper gets lots of practice for medical stuff with Luffy and Zoro who like to fight in fighting rings just for the heck of it, and for the money that Nami wants.

Robin – 25 year old depressed archeologist (and assassin) they found in a mafia in the next country over (Vivi’s)

Crocodile’s running it, aka Luffy’s criminal uncle number 500

 Luffy’s pissed about it and smacks him into the dust because it’s his friends country, and then drags Robin along because she needs to have some adventure, and hey, they are checking out the ruin’s next, wont that be cool?

 So robin comes along as the ‘adult super vision’, at least in Nami and Usopp and Chopper’s mind.

She learns that these kids have some how been able to dodge school, and starts teaching them the basics of what they would need to know, and then any thing else they want to know. (Zoro, she finds, is extremely good at math while Sanji enjoys chemistry. Nami and Usopp catch on quick, while Chopper has his own studies already but enjoys talking to her. Luffy dislikes learning, but if the promise of pirates or foods or letters that wont spin in his head is involved, he’ll gladly sit down for a bit. He especially loves the stories however.)

Robin finds herself inching dangerously into mom territory, and accepts it whole heartedly after meeting Franky, who she finds handsomely hilarious.

She has a shady past but is slowly opening up about it, and knows she will watch the world burn for this crew.

Y’all know about Franky already so im gonna move on.

Brook – super fucking Old musician they found on the street looking for his dog Laboon

 He used to be a star but lost his fame but doesn’t care – he  only wants to make people happy with his music.

Luffy just straight up just drags him into the sunny, its becoming a habit of him kidnapping people, that’s not how you make friends Luffy (or at least it shouldn’t be – he always seems to make it work.)

 Everyone just goes with it at this point while Franky sighs and triie sto figure out how to make a giant RV even bigger

The Crew find out his dog is living in luffy’s home town and used to play with Luffy when his friends weren’t around. They vow to go back once everything dies down, but in the mean time Dadan gets a new guard dog in her house hold

Usopp posts one (1) video of Brook (on Halloween in skeleton make up) and he instantly becomes a revived star, thriving on the mytery of the Skeleton Soul King.

He now posts videos from around the world of him singing but its impossible to predict where he will be next, and he’s invisible with out his make up to the internet, so its good for the whole criminal thing.

Jimbe

(best) Criminal uncle 501

 No one knows exactly how he knows luffy beyond luffy himself but they are 90% sure its something to do with the underground warlord system that Luffy has connections too

 He gives the best hugs, Uncle Iroh but without the well-meaning manipulation.

 He’s tired of responsibility that he has in his underground position and kinda wants to fuck off to the Caribbean but then he meets luffy again and is like this is better

He Leaves the fishman gang behind with subordinate in charge and joins strawhats

He becomes stressed - “Why did you choose an archeologist and a man who wears speedos for adult supervision, how are you alive, do you need a hug, do you know basic math, have you even gone to school, oh thank god Robin is here - ”

Two minutes later

“Do you have code names, can I have one,”

 He’s a big faker the dummy everyone can see right through you, you’re aren’t on this crew if you have common sense

Between dad moments, essentially its just the Straw hats breaking in and causing havoc where ever they go, building their bounties and being a found family.

That’s it for now, but please ask questions! Sorry this was so long lmao, ill also add something for Vivi later!

[pokkop15]

(Ok so I was a fool and had had a lot of this meta written up yesterday and instead of saving it as a draft while I watched critical role, I, like a fool, just left all the tabs open and then went to bed after the episode. Then firefox crashed in the night and everything was lost. Press F to pay respects I guess cause here I go again.)

First off, Aradia is best girl and I am so happy she's RELEVANT again. I had a whole preamble the last time I wrote this post, but I can't remember what it said other than mentioning that this is gonna be a long post beneath the cut and that I have other metas that will kind of overlap with what I'm saying in this one so I will try to keep my discussion of the narrative styles of the The Prince and The Muse to only what is relevant to this post and to what is RELEVANT. Also previous metas should be reblogged directly before I post this to make it easier to check them out before hand or to reference them more easily.

The main points of focus will be: The differences between how the two Time gods interact with The Muse and her narrative, as well as the general level of metatextual awareness of characters within Candy. | The juxtaposition of the Knight and the Maid. | The possible suppression of the Ultimate nature of The Knight, and by extension The Seer. | The Muse's unique state of power and presumed Awakening | I swear there was more but I flat out don't remember what they were.

One last thing. I am a rambly motherfucker so if you haven't read my previous metas, here's your warning to expect a very long and very chaotic mess of a post beneath the cut. Also for anyone confused anytime I emphasize someone as 'The Class' it's referring to their actions as a potential narrator and as an Ultimate Self. For example, the difference between The Muse and the Muse is that 'the Muse' would be for character moments like when the dead cherub possessing Jade's corpse in Candy is just talking with Davebot and Aradia, while 'The Muse' is for when talking about her influence over the narrative. (There's a lot of different ways I put emphasis on words or phrases, but “The Class” was the one I felt really might need clarification)

I find it interesting how Davebot acknowledges and shows distaste for The Muse interjecting her narration and thus inhibiting his ability to live in the moment. I find this interesting because as an Awakened god of Time, he is simultaneously living in every moment but as a Knight, and as The Knight, he is also intrinsically separate from those moments as he is the Ultimate One who Wields Time. Aradia on the other hand is the Maid of Time, who while almost assuredly having reached the pinnacle of her god tier after the hundreds of years we now know her to have lived, is not ascended to her Ultimate Self. As a Maid, Aradia literally embodies her aspect. As such she doesn't worry about living in the moment because she is the moment. Because of this Aradia is more prone to just accept, agree, and repeat the sentiments The Muse dictates in her constant exposition. However, despite acknowledging the narration, Davebot still ends up being incredibly passive in the face of it. Even though he has an Active class and is a dreamer of the Active moon, Dave himself has always come off as an incredibly passive character to me in a lot of ways. (Even the aspect of Time itself and its heroes are specifically denoted as incredibly Active in the {official and Canon} extended zodiac test [which means its contents are NECESSARY, RELEVANT, and TRUE]). Always acting under the direction of other characters, subject to The Lord's rule over Time, and constantly struggling with his seeming lack of control. Here, even after reaching his Ultimate Self, he still only makes passive-aggressive remarks instead leaving the flow of the story and the big decisions to others. (In my last post I went into deeper detail about the nature of, and relationship between Aradia and Dave's classes and how that affected their sessions, but I can't remember what the tie in was unfortunately so for now I'll leave it at this and move on)

Among the human players of sburb, the Strilondes have always been the most genre savvy and possessed the most awareness of the narrative and its' influence, (although Dave was never near the levels of Dirk and Rose). But up until this upd8, direct interactions with the narrative have been few and far between in Candy (at least as far as I can recall). I mentioned this in my previous meta as being a result of The Muse being the type to inspire characters to action whereas The Prince is far more heavy handed in is dictation and rarely attempts to hide his presence in the narration these days. But we see here once again, that not only is The Muse bad for the people under her influence, she's also just really not good at constructing a story. She relies too heavily on tropes and cliches, on plot contrivances; she tells too much and doesn't show enough, (something that should literally be her greatest strength as a Muse). Yet despite this, Davebot and Aradia are seen multiple times to interact with her dictations directly and Aradia even points out on page 284 that she is aware of The Muse “observing (their) every action and noting its relevance : )” (the emphasis on 'relevance' being mine). As such we can infer that it doesn't take an Ultimate Self to recognize The Muse's narration. But if not that, then what? If it was just pre-disposition of character that let them notice, then between her own abilities and self awareness, surely Candy!Rose would have by now, but she hasn't. Then is it proximity? Maybe The Muse is getting complacent and starting to unknowingly imitate The Prince and his methods? Or is it because both Davebot and Aradia are Heroes of Time? The aspect opposite The Muse's. After all, The Muse did express that the way (either Aradia specifically or that the both of them) experience time is “woefully unfamiliar” to her. Perhaps that makes it difficult for her to write a story that resonates with them fully. Whatever it may be, all the information up until this point doesn't come to a head so much as it is something that I believe to be RELEVANT.

With that, let us switch gears while keeping the previous information in mind. As I said before, in spite of all the active components of Davebot's Mythological Role, his character has often been passive. And the precise story beat I want to focus on right now is his Awakening to his Ultimate Self. Candy!Dave was out on patrol with a wife who he loved, but who also had very much always been the driving force of their dynamic. He was pulled to the ancient bunker by the narrative where a hologram of Obama expertly guided him through a conversation like a true politician, somehow knowing a lot about Dave while at the same time withholding “classified” information as if that word had any meaning without a country or government holding Obama accountable. (Unless of course Obama was still answering to someone... *Cough cough*the authors*cough cough*). Look, all of this is me saying that Obama was a leftover contrivance of The Prince that The Muse utilized for her own means. Dirk was a skilled programmer and engineer. He had a deep understanding of how to build AIs that could easily impersonate someone. He had an even deeper grasp of how to manipulate Dave. Dirk built the bots. The Bots. The bots that are supposedly NECESSARY for one to Awaken to their Ultimate Self and survive. And yet even if that is TRUE, it isn't true. The Prince claims he was a special case but his powers are of the soul, not the body. And it is the body that breaks down. And we know that Rose really was suffering in her path to Awakening, but I will remind you that her poor condition was first established through narration that we know was under the control of The Prince. Further more it happened prior to the Meat/Candy split, in which the Canon still possessed TRUTH, which is why it still remained RELEVANT in Candy (and it was obviously NECESSARY in Meat for reasons about to be discussed). Both Rose and Dave ultimately played a passive role in their Awakenings, guided to their Ultimate Self by another even though they are both Active players. I believe that The Prince established these rules about Ultimate Selves and built the robot bodies as a way to give him an upper hand against the two characters most likely to overtake him. Because to reinforce a point from a previous post, Rose is the only full on published author among the players and Dave himself has written comics and presumably screenplays for his films, making them the two people who might not only do a better job than The Prince or The Muse, but just do a flat out GOOD job. The Seer especially, which is why The Prince went through the extra effort to disrupt her sense of self as she was coming into her Ultimate Self. If these two had played an Active part in their own Awakening and without The Prince’s influence I think they both would’ve been quite capable of giving The Prince a run for his money. But the humans are not the only players in this game...

As I've already alluded to, Lord English (The Lord), was almost certainly his Ultimate Self. Awakened and Empowered by the treasure (a juju so powerful that it enabled John to retcon things in a way that overrides the timeline instead of splitting it, and it did so without even granting him its actual power). When The Knight awakened, The Muse described it has having all of Time flow through his consciousness, allowing him to experience every instance of his own self. Conversely Jade described that her Ultimate Self would be “like... one ultimate self distributed across multiple bodies. so in multiple places and states at once. every jade that exists is like a light being shined through a thousand cracks in the timeline.” (Hey remember those cracks in the universe that had light peaking through them? Idk, seems RELEVANT if you ask me.) So if we reasonably assume that ones aspect heavily affects how one's Ultimate Self first Awakens and how it operates than that means there will be similarities between those who share aspects. If Awakening for a Hero of Time is an experience of everything that ever has, is, or will happen to a version of themselves, and Lord English possessed a juju that allows one to retcon and not split, than the combination of those powers would make it so he could be the singular instance of himself while at the same time always be “Already Here” than there is truly no difference between Lord English and the theoretical Ultimate version of himself. And since the Muse consumed Lord English at the end of Candy, granting her the power to punch a wormhole in the black hole. This is also presumably where she gained the power to “...exist in several narrative structures at once” (pg 286) (also see the above explanation of Jade's Ultimate Self for why that is RELEVANT). Because of this, we can assume that The Muse is just as indistinguishable from her theoretical Ultimate Self as The Lord was. But these powers and this simultaneous existence is not without consequences because the Muse's collapse at the end of this chapter is almost assuredly a result of Meat!Jade's rebelling against The Muse in chapter 6 (specifically the action on page 167/168). And finally, to tie this back to the imposition of bodily destruction to those who Awaken their Ultimate Self, it is worth noting that The Muse does not possess a body of her own to be destroyed. Instead inhabiting the body of various Jades.

Alright, so once again sorry if you thought there would be some big culmination to this post, and hey, what pumpkin?

[bigskydreaming]

Lemme get the timeline right, so Dick was about 15-16 when first Teen Titans happened, then he came back to Batgirl's debut, some time later he left for college & that was the issue where Bruce is kinda teary, looking at Dick's prizes, Dick teases him a lil? Or was that golden age? Then he's recruited by Raven, NTT happens, but the firing... I'm confusing these parts. He got fired after getting shot by Joker? He was Robin then so before Jason, but was he with NTT or in Gotham?

LOL don’t worry about being confused, because it very much IS confusing thanks to so many continuities and retcons.

Personally, I tend to go with pre-New 52 timeline and then just later stories like that timeline never ended and just kept going with New 52 and Rebirth stories....with any discrepancies being like....’flashback stories’ retroactively inserted at the appropriate point in the characters’ histories. That’s just my approach though, doesn’t necessarily work for everyone.

But pre-New 52, the ages up until Dick is around 16 or 17 are pretty flexible.....you can kinda pick and choose when you view the first Teen Titans having formed because there aren’t any hard age milestones to use as a marker. So regardless of what you go with, up until Dick was about sixteen, maybe seventeen, he lived full time in Gotham with Bruce, was Robin, and ‘moonlighted’ with the Teen Titans, who in their early years were kinda more an excuse to hang out with their superhero friends rather than like....a specifically focused team.

THEN is when it gets confusing, because enter the Age of Retcons:

ORIGINALLY, pre-Crisis of Infinite Earths, aka Retcon-Palooza, Dick went on to become Nightwing while he was still on good terms with Bruce. Bruce took Jason in and adopted him, but there was zero conflict with Dick over this....in fact, at this point in the comics, Jason was ALSO an orphaned circus acrobat whose family had been friends with Dick’s family, and DICK was the one who helped him after his parents were murdered, and took him to Bruce, which led to Bruce adopting him. 

(Fun fact, and part of why I side-eye people who dismiss retcons as ‘not counting’......Jason’s extremely iconic and well-known history as a street kid who Bruce found stealing his tires......only spanned about TWELVE ISSUES. Before his death, he literally only existed with that origin for about a year’s worth of comics....as opposed to pre-Crisis, when he existed for SEVERAL years worth of comics as the plucky acrobat who adored Dick and was always doing his homework and saying “Robin gives me magic” and stuff. Fandom lives mashing these two versions of Jason together, which is fine, but they have zero problem plying his twelve issues of having grown up as a street kid for angst, while being dismissive of other characters’ retcons, and that’s right up there when talking about Things That Make Me Go HMMMM).

Anyway, so originally, pre-Crisis, Dick moved on to become Nightwing when HE was good and ready, of his own volition, because he felt he was entering a new stage of his life and wanted to reflect that. And then HE gave Robin to Jason HIMSELF, like, literally bequeathed it to him, brother to brother, with Jason being appropriately grateful to HIM for that rather than crediting Bruce with it, who had absolutely nothing to do with it other than looking on fondly and proceeding from there with Jason as his partner. Dick then transitioned to living and working with the New Teen Titans full time in New York. 

He also briefly went to college at this time, but dropped out after just one semester or one year or so......which other people often skew to make it sound like he’s lazy or spoiled or just wanted to live off Bruce’s money all of which makes me gnash my teeth, lol.....nah, he already had the equivalent of several college degrees just from growing up being trained by Bruce. Dick dropped out for one reason only: nothing he wanted to do with his life benefited from a college diploma specifically, and none of the jobs he went on to work later required one. He’s a kid who comes from a family who never went to college either because they didn’t NEED to in order to do what they loved....and Dick was no different. People love to cite that Dick was already fairly old when his parents died and that’s why ‘he didn’t need Bruce to be his parent as much specifically’ or whatthefuckever....but then they turn right around and act like he should live his life more according to the expectations and standards of Bruce as opposed to.....in keeping with his first family and their priorities and whatnot. BUT I DIGRESS.

But anyway, at this point, he mostly lived in New York and came back to Gotham every now and then to visit or to help with cases. Babs had at this point been Batgirl for some time, before he became Nightwing, but again, the timelines are messy, so the only real marker that’s important IMO is that her history with Bruce and Dick as Batgirl predates Jason joining the family, AND post-Crisis, when Jason had his street kid origin.....I think she interacted with that version of Jason maybe once?

My point there is there’s a lot of piling on the angst and pointing back to Dick as the ultimate culprit, with people making a big deal about how Barbara and others were constantly comparing Jason to Dick and resenting him for not being Dick and this made Jason’s childhood even with Bruce especially difficult....but again, nah. The vast majority of the time Babs/Batgirl co-existed with Jason/Robin, it was pre-Crisis Jason, which meant that he was on great terms with Bruce AND Dick and Dick was on great terms with Bruce, all of which means....NOBODY WAS RESENTING ANYBODY OR COMPARING ANYONE TO ANYONE ELSE, THEY ALL COEXISTED JUST FINE.

NOW.

ENTER THE RETCONS.

This is where it gets messier and more complicated, because JUST LIKE the comics retconned Jason’s origin to make him a street kid - and which NOBODY has trouble acknowledging or balancing......the comics ALSO retconned Dick’s departure from Gotham. Now it was because there was a story in which Dick was shot by the Joker, Bruce freaked out about his safety, and decided the best way to express this was by firing Dick as Robin and alienating him. Dick lingered for a few weeks, its said, in the hopes that Bruce would change his mind, but when Bruce didn’t, Dick finally packed his bags and left to go live with the Titans full time, where he became Nightwing. Its further said that this was the last contact they had for about a YEAR AND A HALF.....with Dick being the one to make the first move to resume contact.....when he found out from the papers both that Bruce had taken in a new kid (Jason) and adopted him already, AND made him Robin.

(A name which no matter WHAT origin you go for in terms of what it means to Dick, is regardless HIS CREATION, the mantle HE made for HIMSELF, and was never Bruce’s to give away, whether or not you go with the take that it was Dick’s mother’s nickname for him, or it being a reference to Robin Hood, Dick’s favorite childhood hero).

Anyway, Dick confronted Bruce about this, and Bruce basically just....acknowledged this without actually ever putting the words “I’m sorry” or “I messed up” in there, and that was Dick’s one and only ON THE PAGE interaction with Jason post-street kid origin before A Death In The Family....which occurred like two story arcs later. 

(However, something I like to point out is the issue where Dick and Jason meet after both their respective retcons, was a FLASHBACK issue. It literally starts the issue off with the caption “One year ago”.....meaning that even though Jason died only two story arcs later and we never saw Dick and he interact on the page again, that issue was deliberately scripted in such a way as to allow for a good couple years to pass IN UNIVERSE....which, IMO, is where Dick and Jason’s sibling bond and dynamic had more than enough time to form. Just because Dick was on bad terms with Bruce doesn’t mean he ever took this out on Jason, and we know from later stories that they at least interacted a few times we never saw, like when the two of them went skiing together - so while people act like they barely knew each other because Dick was never around, IMO there’s literally no reason to assume that Dick wasn’t just as good about reaching out to Jason and forming a sibling bond with him after that first initial meeting, as he later was with Tim and Cass and Damian. In fact, given how familiar Dick and Jason seem to be with each other after his return to Gotham years later, IMO the thing that ACTUALLY strains credulity is the idea that before Jason died, he and Dick only interacted a bare handful of times. Nah. That doesn’t track.)

ANYWAY. That’s how all that played out those two different times, and why there’s so much confusion, BUT I maintain a huge part of that confusion is artificially produced.....by people deliberately trying to mix and match continuities in a way that just flat out doesn’t work. Sooooooo many times over the years, we’ve heard takes on how Dick ‘quit’ being Robin and then Bruce made Jason Robin and Dick resented both of them for this, but uh.....that’s the one version of things that DIDN’T ever happen. There were two distinct ways it played out. In the first, Dick quit voluntarily, and then made Jason Robin himself, and he and Bruce and Jason were all on great terms. In the later version, (the definitive version, because just like Jason’s street kid origin, it was the retcon, yes, but it was also never refuted or contradicted, the way it would have to be to ‘reset’ canon to that earlier sequence of events/state of affairs) - but yeah, in the later version, Dick was fired, Bruce made Jason Robin, and Dick resented BRUCE for this.

But people keep trying to play mix and match so Dick both quit - thus ‘giving up his claim to Robin/theoretically having no basis to object to someone else being Robin’....AND Bruce made Jason Robin - thus getting ‘credit’ in Jason’s eyes for giving him this mantle, responsibility and trust - with Dick then resenting Bruce for giving away the thing he ‘gave up.’

And that’s so disingenuous and obnoxious, when people try and play that game. They don’t want Dick to have ‘the right’ to the same complaints they have about Jason and Tim being ‘replaced’ but they also don’t want him to get credit for giving Robin to Jason because that would imply a strong brotherly bond and connection between them, one in which Dick clearly loves his little brother, and its just....uggggggh. So annoying.

BUT I DIGRESS.

Anyway, that’s the scoop, the buzz, the happening.

[ellanainthetardis]

Hi :) I’m know you’ve written fics where both happen but out of curiosity, in movie!verse (which admittedly I mostly ignore hahah) do you hc effie would move to 12 when Peeta moves back? Would it have been as difficult for her to live in the capitol if she was known to have been the escort that sided with the rebellion rather than the one that everyone thought was the enemy? What do you think would be her prompt to realise she’d rather be with haymitch when it’s not her PTSD like in book!verse?

MMM that’s a very interesting question I rarely touch movie!verse post MJ. I’m not entirely a fan of a “stay sober” Haymitch (at least not until a few years down the line when he might make the decision to cut out himself, bc it wasn’t his choice to get sober in MJ and I feel like he wouldn’t stick to it but I digress). As for Effie, it’s hard to tell. I love EB to death and I love her portrayal of Effie but the way they used Effie in MJ... I can’t really get behind it. She’s acting like her most flamboyant spoiled brat self all MJ 1&2 and 13 never puts her back in her place. I’d have liked to see a transposition of the scenes with the prep teams, for instance, or something that would confront her to reality, instead I got customized uniform book!13 would never have allowed and random comic relief. 

Anyway. Back to to topic. Two options, I think. Either we consider purely movie!canon and we decides they started hooking up in 13, so when he says don’t be a stranger maybe he means that but she doesn’t take it to mean “please move in ily” bc they don’t have the “history” so to speak. In which case, I will lean more toward something where she stays in the city and take a job with Plutarch, basically filling out Fluvia’s role, by becoming his Chief of Staff or something. I do think she has the skills to go into politics, maybe not as a face but as a PR or yeah, chief of staff, or something like that. Higher up but behind the throne, you see? 

Since she joined the rebellion after the Quell and was quite publicly the Mockingjay’s escort during the war, I think most rebels would be satisfied with that and maybe conclude she’s been a part of the rebellion for longer than anyone realized and she wouldn’t deny it so... She would be okay with them, maybe even well considered... I do think she would be in hotter waters with the Capitols but since Capitols invented the game, they would pretend and be very hypocretical bc they want to survive and, while she wouldn’t believe a word or a smile and watch for the knife in her back, she would go along with the charade. 

I think she could make a successful career out of that. A career she enjoys even, because her brain would be put to use for once. And since she wouldn’t be as jadded by the war, I don’t see her ambition being put in check. I guess she would be in relationship with Haymitch but it would be long distance. Holidays, the occasional week-end in 12 or the city... 

Maybe it works out well, at first, because Haymitch isn’t used to having someone romatincally around and that’s a good transition but after a while, I do think he would get in a frame of mind where he wants something more stable and it might put tensions on their relationship a few years down the line...

I’m a romantic and I love them so I want to think they would make it but I’m not sure how much a fling that started in MJ with the movie!characterisation would really work out. Either she quits and move to 12 (but she’s so ambitious and if her career is really working well, it seems ooc) or Haymitch moves to the city (which is NOT happening) or they find some sort of in-between solution where she takes a political role as a delegate in 12 or something... 

Second, option (my default when I play in movie!verse) we consider a hybrid of (what we  think is) book!canon and movie!canon for Effie. We consider Effie  has a lot of character development pre 74th and is fully aware of the states by the time Katniss pulls out the poisonned berries and isn’t as clueless during the Tour and etc as she pretends to be on screen. So when she arrives in 13 she’s DEEPLY unhappy about having been “kidnapped” (probably bc if Haymitch had asked, she would simply have said yes), really upset by the rebels failing to rescue Peeta and mostly worried because she’s not stupid enough not to see she’s not welcome. She’s basically durmped into the enemy’s den and Haymitch isn’t even around to protect her (bc he’s in withdrawals). I like to consider book!13 when I write that verse and pretend movie!13 doesn’t exist, so she would also be “a fish out of water” - as was promised when MJ1 came out. I also like to have her wear the real uniform for that reason, I think it’s important for someone like her who always means to stand out to be forced into the ranks, because it would play on her mind and that’s interesting. 

Anyway, book!hayffie do seem to have more history regardless of if you think they were having an affair before 74th or not. They have all those “of one mind” thing and conspiracy in elevators... They do seem to have a more... real equal working relationship, meanwhile in the movie, it seems Haymitch is doing all the work.... So if we take that into account, I think, in that hybrid idea, Effie would stick with Haymitch and remain his escort (and Kat’s obviously) in 13 so she’s more involved despite the hostility she triggers. Her being more involved means she gets to see more of the horrors happening in Command. She would also, I think, be tired by all the years of dead kids. That’s something that would sit heavily on her and I’m not sure book!Effie shrugs it off as easily as movie!Effie does... 

What I like with movie!Effie though, is that she develops a real nice relationship with Katniss. That, we do lack in the books. And I really like that because I think it might come to play a role post MJ. 

Of course, when we consider post MJ we have to decide what to do there too. I don’t like the movie!MJ ending XD I don’t like that Katniss isn’t hurt/addicted and I don’t like that they ship her off right after the murder. I like the whole “suicidal/withdrawal/trial” thing better. There is SO MUCH happening beyond her room during those weeks (months?) and that’s what’s interesting because I think that’s when hayffie’s fate is decided. (either they implode in book!verse - for a little while - or they seal the fact they want to be together for hybrid movie!verse)

Anyway, if we consider the hybrid version of Effie (movie!verse but with book background and the idea that the affair didn’t in fact begin in 13) I think it’s possible she just might be exhausted and disgusted by all the politics and worried about the children enough that she would just come to 12 with Peeta. To test the water. Also she knows her feelings, she’s mostly confident Haymitch does love her, she probably simply isn’t sure he’s actually ready to have her around him 24/24 in his house. 

I mean if she and Haymitch had been dancing around the casual/not so casual thing for years, she might want to take a shot at being steady, committted while he’s miraculously willing. I can see it as a natural progress of their relationship assuming they took a big step in 13 (either by openly sharing a compartment even if it’s not official like I like to hc or even just by not systematically denying when someone assumes they’re together or even - which I think is plausible - by having an actual convo where she puts it on the table that she wants more and he actually awkwardly reassures her that he does have feelings - even if the words aren’t said yet...). 

Now if they just started hooking up in 13, I don’t think she would show up with Peeta because there wouldn’t be all the developped intimacy and trust that they need. They both have huge trust and intimacy issues. Haymitch more than Effie, granted, but I don’t think she’s the kind of girl who would drop everything to follow a guy without being 100% certain he loves her without question. She’s a romantic, no questions, but she’s also pragmatic. I’m not sure we get those conditions with movie!hayffie. 

ALSO I realize this is all my hc and basically book!verse doesn’t give us much more to go on but I really do believe with all my heart the only reason Haymitch would be open to having a romantic (committed) relationship post MJ (and take a shot at sobriety on top of it) is because of Effie, of their long complicated affair and because he realized he loved her a little too late. Two things in movie verse: either they were hooking up and he doesn’t have the *gasp she’s in the Capitol’s hands, I lost her, shit I love her don’t I?” reveal (although I guess we can still have him start realizing during VT and go from there) so the knowledge he actually wants her in his life full time is slower to come OR they start hooking up in MJ and he doesn’t have the years of denial and tentative repressed feelings so I’m not sure how we go from him being a hermit to him wanting to be committed to someone he was sure he disliked even though he was fond of her. 

And she might have the same doubts. Basically a movie!hayffie relationship would have a lot of things to work out. But the thing with movie!hayffie is that Haymitch backstory isn’t explained (is it? I don’t remember. I blacked out most of the things I was disappointed about and boy was I disappointed with the Finnick reveal scene) and Effie’s background is very unexplored so it’s kind of sandbox. I’m too fixed in my own hc and visions of the characters by now but someone else might come up with very various backstories and backgrounds and make it work better than I could maybe...  

If you read all that rambling and made sense of it, I give you a golden star. Maybe I’m way off base though. It’s been a while since I watched the movies. I really didn’t like MJ1 and 2 much. There were stuff I liked, some scenes, mostly papa!H and mama!E, obviously I enjoyed the hayffie... But idk, 13 is too different from what I pictured, not strict enough, and I’m irked every time Coin gives Katniss a peptalk that should have come from Haymitch. The lack of Haymitch is also annoying to me. He’s supposed to be a key player and he’s just in the background. Even Effie is more useful, I feel. 

Anyway, see how my brain works? You ask a question and it jumps in a thousand different directions. I’m not sure I did a good job at explaining my thoughts. 

But do share yours! I’m interested! It’s been a while since we talked headcanons and meta! I’ll put this on the tag if people are feeling like reading ramblings and discussing their own vision... 

All hcs and meta are interesting! 

[co-mixed]

Storm/Gambit

Probably the most popular shipping question is whether or not you support any non-canon ships. I never actually thought about that much, until recently. I’m mostly a canon ship supporter: regardless of whether or not I like a couple, if it’s canon, I’ll see it for what it is. Of course there are cases, when I wish things went differently, and honestly, there were some Marvel break ups I took harder than I should have. But I’m so used to Marvel Universe by now, that its never ending movement doesn’t  worry me anymore (if anything, “Dawn of X” only loosens the stakes). Anyway, the point here is that I’m in the zone of total canon acceptance with Marvel. That said, I caught myself coming back to one particular non-canon ship that kind of stuck with me. I know there is a fair share of people who’d like that to happen, and I guess I’m one of them.

Storm and Gambit.

Before all the Rogue/Gambit fans get a chance to argue, I wanna clarify, that they were the endgame from their first shared scene, and that shows. I remember reading up on their story what was it… about 17 years ago, and it couldn’t be more obvious. Honestly, it’s not easy to picture them with anyone else (we’ve seen how they do without one another). Besides, the difficulties of their journey only made it more clear. I just think that marriage is not the best idea for them, because I never wanted them to join the pantheon of COUPLES. You know, like Sue and Reed, Jessica and Luke.

But this is not about them. This is about Ororo and Remy, because in-between on again off again Rogue romance, and all the dramatic love stories Storm went through, it would’ve been interesting to see a fun adventurous relationship between these two. What comes to mind is actually Rhett’s quote from “Gone with the Wind”

- Did you ever think of marrying just for fun?

Background

The main argument against this romance is that Storm and Gambit meet under confusing circumstances i.e. he saves her when she’s reverted to her pre-teen years. This happens in Uncanny X-men #265-267

Nanny reverses ‘Roro back to childhood, removing all memories of her adulthood. However, Storm breaks away and hides in Cairo, Illinois. Meanwhile, Shadow King is after her (isn’t he always?). When he lures Storm into a mansion, with the help of his hounds, they attack her, but she jumps out of the window into an outdoor pool. She is pulled out of the water by Gambit. They run away to her hideout.

They stick together, since Remy is also on Shadow King’s radar now, battle him, and run away to New Orleans. There they spend some time doing the Robin Hood thing up until Nanny catches Gambit. Storm rescues him, also growing up to her teens.

Before you get any ideas, I have to mention that right away Gambit knew who Storm was. Yes, you could say that he took care of her, but you can easily say the opposite. They still have a fantastic dynamic, where they easily play off each other’s phrases (but that’s Claremont for you, right?). And normally Ororo’s all “I shall meet you at the monorail”, but her kid self is way less dramatic.

The two have a lot in common, and they have fun in general. Storm even feels like she finally belongs somewhere. And later, she is the one to sponsor Remy’s acceptance to the team.

To sum it up, with this storyline there is potential, and I have no idea where they were going with that originally. Let’s try and figure this out.

After Storm’s unfortunate (but ultimately successful) trip to Genosha (she was kidnapped along with New Mutants and turned into a mutate, but grew back up), she goes back to leading the X-men. Before that though, we get this panel:

New Mutants #97

That’s she actually gets Gambit to join the team, even if just for a while. And we assume they already familiar enough, since when she’s uneasy about whether or not she’s made right choices as a leader, Remy is the one to give her a pep talk. Okay, that’s a completely “friend” thing to do, and I pretty much see no chemistry here. Except for, you know, the fact that one of Gambit’s mutant abilities is to be irresistible.

X-Treme X-men

During X-Treme X-men series ‘Ro and Remy spend plenty of time together, even considering that his  and Rogue relationship gets pretty serious, and Storm has a lot going on. But let’s not skip anything important.

Originally in this Claremont’s run, Storm forms a team to go after Destiny’s journals. Of course Rogue is on the roster, which kinda means that eventually Gambit will show up too. That he indeed does. At some point, around issue 4 or 5, the team has to go help out Gambit, because surprise, he’s accused of a murder. That’s pretty much when we see where both ladies’ beliefs are. Rogue doesn’t for a second buy the fact that Remy would kill (even a mafia leader), Storm, on the other hand, doesn’t have much faith in the guy. So yeah, Rogue is goin all true love, while Storm lacks trust. At this point that’s not out of character for her, because the whole operation runs of lack of said trust.

Not to feel too bad for her though, around the same time ‘Roro gets a lot of attention from Bishop, and starts seeing Davis Cameron. A lot is going on in this book, but team Gambit/Storm gets two unforgettable moments.

in X-Treme X-men #4:

And in X-Treme X-men #32

Yes, I know that both times the writers here have to remind us (and him) that Rogue is his soulmate. In this department it would be hard to compete with her really. And I wouldn’t want Storm to. After all Rogue literally saved Remy from death twice in this run only, and there was a hint of resentment in him, but it doesn’t really go anywhere, just dissolves as many other stray phrases.

Either way, Storm and Gambit, they are friends, and we get some good moments out of two of them, when they’re together they seem to have a great chemistry.

Storm 2014 #9

What would I want them to be?

They would never qualify for a serious relationship by any of my standards. Basically, they are too much alike in a sense that he, for the most part, lives the life she would want to. Free of responsibilities like not letting the whole order of nature get out of control. But they still are pretty interesting together, it’s easy for them to understand each other, and talk things through, even though we get only glimpses of that. They are always honest with each other, so they would’ve made a pair that won’t ever have to deal with couples therapy. Also, it’s always jokes and flirting with them, even when they’re both in a relationship, hell, even when she was married.

When they need support, they’re there for each other:

X-men Vol 1 #326

X-men Gold #6

But at the end of the day it’s always gonna be Rogue for him, and now he’s in the ever after zone really (or in a way in a narrative limbo).  

As for her… I guess I’ll have to make a whole new in-depth analysis of her ‘ship choices to determine that (she has a lot to choose from).

With the comics anything can happen, so I should probably say that we’ll see where it ends up.

[bladekindeyewear]

HS^2 bloggin’ upd8 2020-01-17

Alright, morningblogging yesterday’s 2020-01-17 upd8 to Homestuck^2 let’s go!  Spoiler-free again.  I kinda don’t want even the next chapter names image-spoiled above the cut anymore so I’m going to have to figure out WHAT to put above the cut in these liveblog posts for visual reinforcement... a unique silly icon?  Going back once I’m done with the upd8 and posting something non-spoilery but weird-looking out of context?

Eh, can’t be assed.  Just know that after this I’m going to pony up for the Patreon commentary and skim it for anything plot-useful to y’all (in a separate post).  Let’s get started.

Okay, what’s next:  Any bonuses?  Oh, none!  Phew.  Unless those are coming faster too and just staggered differently, which would mean I gotta overcome my irrational pre-Homestuck-reading anxiety even MORE often.  :T

No Homestuck you don’t GET to ask how my-- ah, right.  :P

(FYI, HS^2 has been good to my emotions so far, quite a balm for the epilogues, so once I START reading I’m usually fine; but after being hurt so badly how could I possibly convince my lizard brain to trust it until it’s right in front of me?  Seriously, just hearing that the upd8 has landed messes me up a bit until I come fix it by reading w/ y’all here.)

Okay, so whose feelings?  As much as I’ve been waiting for Jade, I hope this isn’t about Jade.

> ==>

Ah fuck, we’re finally with the Pursuit Crew.  Bracing myself.  That means we get to see probably sleeping Jade ( :C ), full-swing DaveKat (approving nod), the first canon onscreen look at masculine-mode Roxy (<3), a probably pretty pissed off Kanaya (possibly either the feelings target, the one Saying How Are Your Feelings, or both), and uh... did they drag Callie along?  Or leave her back there with her meta freakout?  Probably left her back there, but... hm.

Let me turn up the brightness on this screen to sear these next pages into my retinas.  (Also, it feels odd to still be using a four-person “==>” for these, although if Jade is still asleep the numbers might fit on both ends... :c )

> ==>

I don’t think Dad is in the spacefaring business, so this is probably one of Jake’s shittier spaceship designs.

> ==>

...well that’s a touch disturbing.  Is that a Jade-occupied bed or are those just pillows?

Oh what the fresh fanfic’y heck is this command.

> i enter.

Okay that’s great.  I got a kick out of that.

JADE [in calliope red]: the prince’s power grows.

--but that’s not.  That explains the narrative command text, it’s alt!callie talking through a still conked-out Jade.  Please let her wake up between speak-throughs, please tell me you’ve learned that trick??  I already know you’re gonna pull an “oh she was asleep pretty much all of those THREE YEARS OF TRAVEL” thing on me and that’s hard fucking enough to deal with.

KARKAT: JESUS CHRIST!

He’s actually using the full curse correctly, huh?

...These commands.  Guess part of the puzzle is how much alt!Callie is being typically morbid and how much she might actually be wising up enough to get a kick out of this.

> the knight of blood falls.

DAVE: dude can you chill for like even a single fucking second DAVE: also are you ok

Has CallieJade chilled for even a single second this entire trip??  Is he asking just if Karkat’s okay or Jade too???

--yeah I’m overblowing things out of nervousness.  Just wait and see a bit, boots.

Alt!Callie has at least learned to be more of a smartass:

> karkat is characteristically appreciative of the alarm call.

Shirt trade Karkat, nice.  And uh, Jade’s dress sure is a... dress.  Hm.

(Did alt!Callie alchemize adjustments to did she just luck out to have a red-symbol’d Bec belt and accent leggings?  I’d prefer the former, because as much as it would be acceptable within Homestuck proper, using the transition between the epilogues and this new-author’d work to just HAPPEN to give her a fitting outfit without an excuse via providence is kind of lazy.)

KARKAT: OH, PARDON THE FUCK OUT OF ME FOR OVERREACTING A LITTLE WHEN MY GOOD FRIEND "POSSESSED JADE" BUSTS INTO MY RESPITEBLOCK AT 5 AM! KARKAT: NEXT TIME I’LL JUST PULL THE COVERS BACK AND LET HER CLIMB IN! JADE: i am uninterested in that scenario. KARKAT: GREAT! POSSESSED JADE ISN’T EVEN HORNY! HOW FUCKED UP IS THAT?

...please let that mean he’s not used to her being possessed all the time and she wakes up sometimes.  PLEASE.

DAVE: but im pretty sure i locked that door JADE: i unlocked it with my mind. DAVE: fuck KARKAT: FANTASTIC. JADE: the prince’s powers are growing, but so are mine.

Dave, I’m pretty sure regular-ass no-Green-Sun Space powers can flip a few lock tumblers too.  (--though, I guess from context this was a Jakeship technolock.  Confirmation on the ship’s bad taste in design.  --I think I’m foggily remembering it said in the Epilogues that they took one of Jake’s ships just like Dirk did, too... man, being depressed so much by the Epilogues sure took a lot out of my ability to recall them decently.)

KARKAT: LIKE YOU DON’T FLOAT AROUND LIKE A CREEPY PIECE OF SHIT ALL DAY AS IT IS?

God DAMN IT she’s been asleep and possessed the whole fucking time.

> sleep is abandoned, coffee sought.

More obligatory DaveKat being cute, somehow only emphasized by the embarrassing glowing-with-power observer who doesn’t really get any of it.

Ah, here we go:

> the rogue is also awake.

Oh huh.  Cool!

Hero outfit, understated...  her his choice of heart-shades color-coded to stand out from Dave more to avoid further mistaken identity cases.  Works well!  (Holy shit I only JUST remembered at the end to go back and correctly gender Roxy as him, that was close. I blame the epilogues for a lack of visual reinforcement; I shouldn’t have as much trouble soon enough.  Seriously, I don’t remember ANYTHING without visual reinforcement, I think that’s why I remember so much of Homestuck proper so clearly.)

KARKAT: OH SHIT, THERE SHE IS! I DIDN’T EVEN HEAR HER FOLLOW US! ROXY: sometimes a girls just got to get her drift on i guess ROXY: it be like that

ilu roxy.

I missed Roxy so much, you guys.  I need more of him remarking on all this crazy shit if I’m gonna stay sane though all this.  (And I need more of him and AWAKE JADE kicking ass independently or together if I’m going to continue to believe there’s justice in the world.)

> ==>

We rarely saw Rose drinking anything but the rare coffee in canon, but I think Kanaya would have gotten her plenty into tea, yes.  Or at the very least, wanting the aesthetic of drinking tea with Kanaya would have gotten Rose into tea even if it never crossed Kanaya’s mind to try the stuff.

ROXY: well i mean who knows what she drinks now ROXY: dirk probs tossed the coffee machine out the space window right away ROXY: dude doesnt "believe" in "substances" > the prince is contemplated for a moment in silence.

FUCK, Dirk can see the narrative all the way out here???  No wonder alt!Callie’s forced to have possession turned on 24/7.  That’s fucking disappointing.  How the hell are we going to get any proper Jade time with THAT hanging over our heads?  She’d only be able to do anything when Dirk’s knocked out, and maybe not even THEN!

I was virtually promised more of actual non-asleep Jade getting shit done in HS^2.  Now there’s an even longer wait on it than I expected.  This sucks.

(EDIT: BOY did I misread that link line. Thinking “is contemplated” meant is sitting contemplating, when it meant "is being contemplated by everyone here". That was dumb of me.)

*clicks that next link*

Oh my goodness, Roxy joined the Bird Hair Crew.  It makes him look like a fucking asshole but I kind of love it.

KARKAT: IS THERE MILK?

I can’t believe Karkat is okay with drinking milk.  --yes, culturally Trolls are more comfortable with animal excretions than we are, but you would’ve thought years of railing against Equius would have purged any tolerance the idea of milk from his psyche.

I guess Dave introduced him to cereal, and it was all over from there.

DAVE: this is more like a castle DAVE: a castle of idk DAVE: twenty something ennui

Sounds like a relatable mood.  Especially considering Dirk probably decided to conquer reality out of almost nothing but twenty-something ennui.

Alright.  You aren’t going to turn Kanaya into an alcoholic or anything on us are you?

> the knight of time seeks a sylph...

--this is the shittiest shipboard starship aesthetic.

> ...and finds her, momentarily.

WOW that looks fucking depressed.  :(

> ==>

...okay you know what?  Never mind.  That outfit has wrapped straight back around into Trying Too Hard and is now hilarious.

DAVE: you ever feel like our whole lives are eventually gonna end up like this DAVE: just blasting through space on a sweeps long journey to ""somewhere"" chasing after or running from some vague enemy thats sometimes a god modded pet dog and sometimes your dad DAVE: without the faintest fucking idea of whats going to happen when we get there DAVE: thats a little specific but you know what i mean

Why do you think the epilogues upset us so much?  We thought we’d won free of that bullshit.

> ==>

Oh jesus christ that’s the most depressingly sad I’ve ever seen Kanaya drawn.  :C

--Karkat got you to watch Serendipity?  That’s amazing, Dave.

KANAYA: You Arent Reminding Me Of Her As I Rarely Think Of Anything Else KANAYA: I Close My Eyes And I See Her KANAYA: I Keep Them Open And I See Her

Fuck.

Y’know how little showing these two in love and actually HAPPY together we’ve seen in this entire comic and its subworks?  Despite them having spent at least a few happy years together we only saw in tiny screenclips?  And how Candy alluded super hard that they most likely couldn’t get that in this real timeline where shit’s going down?

Seriously, FUCK.  You could at least pretend to give us some hope, here.

Oh no, don’t ask for the nursery story, Dave.  Unless it turns out to be a funny one or a Rose twist on an old story or something.  Which it probably is, I should stop worrying.

> ==>

KANAYA: Oh Its A Wriggler Story About A Young Prince And The Beloved Flower He Loved And Lost DAVE: flower DAVE: like a plant KANAYA: Its A Fairytale Dave DAVE: right KANAYA: A Singular Wild Rose He Failed To Cherish When He Had Her KANAYA: And His Journey Of Discovering What She Meant To Him All Along KANAYA: Culminating In A New Quest To Find Her And Win Her Back

Dirk you PIECE OF SHIT did you rewrite the narrative of the fucking STORIES SHE TOLD CHILDREN?!??  Does the fact that alt!Callie is only in the present mean he can rewrite ANY past event we didn’t literally SEE???  FUCK you.  Seriously fuck all of this.

Please tell me she was kidding just then, or realizes there’s fucking something wrong with what she’s saying and getting angry or.

(EDIT: shoutyourporpoise replied: "Hey, idk If you picked up on this, but the 'nursery story' Rose told to the wigglers is just The Little Prince, which is maybe a BIT early for them to read, but I don't think that's a case of Dirk changing the narrative; its just Rose being Too Adult as usual." Oh, damn, I didn't even CATCH that it was that story. That makes all of this a lot more forgivable, even if pretty unforgivably leaning into the fiction that Dirk used to brainwash and kidnap her. Maybe that's exactly why it worked -- fiction, a story so blazed into the public consciousness? Hm. Thanks, shoutyourporpoise.)

KANAYA: But In A Way I Feel As If It Is the Greater Universe Trying To Tell Me Something

Mother fuck I’m even going to have to see our protagonists warped by Dirk when they’re ostensibly FULLY SHIELDED aren’t I.  There’s only so much of that I would be able to take, you know.

KANAYA: It May Simply Stem From My Longing To See Her Again And How Much Is Indicative Of Something More Sinister KANAYA: She Is A Goddess Of Light And The Only Of Her Kind We Know Is Alive After All KANAYA: Maybe Shes Wrested Dominion Of The Entire Concept In All Its Appearances Within This Frame Of Reference

Hm.  Well, it being a product of Rose’s ascension instead of Dirk’s is possibly a more charitable take, with Ultimate Rose projecting the delusion enforced on her backward, visible to past Rose’s Sight when she isn’t paying attention and thus paving the way for Dirk to paradoxically exploit that “ideal” as something Lighty and Important and “Perfect”.  I still don’t fucking like it though.

> ==>

DAVE: sorry i know you say you got your badass monster powers but kanaya you look tired as hell DAVE: not that im tryna psyche you or whatever but youre waxing poetic in the dark which i guess is maybe on brand but still

Yyyep.

DAVE: unless terezi is lurking in the vents somewhere and now that i bring that up its actually not out of the question so im kind of gonna be thinking about that one for a while

Pffff.

DAVE: youre the only person i know whos still basically the same as when i met you

--Which is kind of going to have to change, right?  She’s got some other cosmic purpose ready to change her a little more than she changed pre-human-troll-meetup, you’d think.

> ==>

Cute as hell.

> ==>

KANAYA: How Are Your Feelings

There’s the title drop.  I’d think Dave’s doing pretty well, considering?  Still fucked over by Dirk betraying and tricking Rose away who he’s been close with all his life, but.

> ==>

DAVE: except sometimes your best friend disappears and your other best friend goes into a ghost coma and your third best friend fucks off to space with your dad DAVE: the dude youve spent the last 7 years convincing yourself isnt an egomaniacal anime villain DAVE: and who isnt actually lying in wait to completely decimate your life and your emotions and shit

Ah... yeah.  A little worse than my casual list, huh?  Forgot that Jade vanishing into a possession-coma for THREE FUCKING YEARS is going to be hard on people inside the comic too, fuck.

DAVE: maybe it was naive to think that a bunch of twenty something trauma victims could run a society

I was honestly surprised they TRIED to run society at all.  Jasp even just highlighted a big reason why not in the bonuses.

DAVE: cool how earth c existed for centuries then we show up and manage to ruin society in seven fucking years

:(

Well, the trolls got THEIR lesson on why they didn’t deserve to rule over their new universe like gods; I guess some of y’all needed that lesson too?

DAVE: every serious conversation i have inevitably falls apart into riffing on a casual acquaintances ass

True.

Dammit, Dave didn’t feel like he could just be Some Guy even on Earth C.  :(

> ==>

...don’t think I’ve forgotten that nursery story, though.  I don’t want to think that it was something that ACTUALLY past happened, especially not without manipulation.  Like maybe past Rose was foreseeing the false purpose that Dirk wrote for her or the like, a cooperative misunderstanding between the two instead of Dirk or Rose literally reaching back in time.

> meanwhile...

KARKAT: WAIT, WHY THE FUCK AM I EVEN ASKING? HE’S OBVIOUSLY NOT FINE. KARKAT: ARE ANY OF US? ARE YOU? ROXY: not rly KARKAT: EXACTLY.

:(

--Oh right.  I remember that Callie and Roxy were going reasonably steady in Meat even though it was only alluded to, she didn’t freak out and stay awol or what have you.  That’s good to remember.  But it means Roxy deliberately left her behind to go on this dangerous quest, for years.  :C

KARKAT: KANAYA BARELY EVEN TALKS, CALLIOPE WON’T LEAVE THEIR CABIN, JADE JUST FLOATS AROUND LIKE A CREEPY BALLOON THAT’S MOSTLY MADE OF HAIR.

Oh, SHIT.  I should have read one line further.  They DID bring her.  Alt!Callie being here too must really FUCK with her.  ...maybe she can actually learn to accept that alternate way her life might’ve played out, though?

KARKAT: THE REALLY FUCKED UP THING IS I MIGHT BE THE MOST OKAY OUT OF ALL OF US, WHICH IS HOW YOU KNOW SHIT HAS REALLY GONE GLOBES UP.

Quite true.

ROXY: ur kinda an intense dude anybody ever tell u that KARKAT: NO.

Pff.

> ==>

KARKAT: AGAINST PRETTY MUCH ALL ODDS, AND DESPITE ME NOT DESERVING ANY OF IT, I ENDED UP GETTING PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING I WANTED. KARKAT: OVER AND OVER AGAIN. KARKAT: SOMETIMES IT ALMOST FEELS LIKE WHATEVER SLATHERING MONSTROSITY OF A COSMIC HELLBEAST THAT PUT ALL THIS SHIT INTO MOTION...ACTUALLY LIKES ME?

Well, if you want to blame Lord English for instance... we never saw Caliborn and Karkat interact much, but the parallels between the two were drawn so severely that Caliborn was basically the idealized, multiverse-threatening Ultimate Kismesis that he’d always dreamed of.  And operated against him without him even ever quite realizing it.

If a level of “respect” went from Caliborn to Karkat, too, from his Lord-Englishy vision nigh-omnipresent, then this outcome isn’t very surprising at all.

> ==>

(I don’t quite feel I get why Roxy shifted to this exasperated-Dave expression, but I get logically that he’d been waiting for Karkat to make a breakfast choice... Homestuck proper rarely pulled a “last line said corresponds to next-panel’s expression” without either leaving the conversation blank or having the NEXT lines of the conversation reinforce it, to prevent this inelegant misunderstanding.  Andrew was really damned talented in getting his point across visually, in that regard.  Just like, that careful visual intent delivery.)

Alright, I guess that’s it for this short upd8!  Meeting the pursuit crew was both more and less difficult than I expected.  Hopefully I get desensitized a bit as the characters continue to feel semi-almost-sorta-fine.

I have NO idea how this group is gonna work as a proper crew when we get to whatever weird other-players’ session this shit is going down in, though.