#eastern european diaspora

[unsolicited-opinions]

Is Israel a Settler Colonialist State?

The claim is made so often that it's hard to fault people for believing it without much thought. 

Let's first look at what Settler Colonialism is, then look at the facts to see if Israel fits the definition.

What Is Settler Colonialism again…?

It’s a specific term used by historians and theorists (Patrick Wolfe and his whole "logic of elimination" thing). Features of Settler Colonialism include:

Expansionism, claiming land for its mother country/empire (monopole) and shipping natural resources back to the empire.

Foreign settlers move in to violently displace, erase, or replace the indigenous population.

Any other cultures in the land are suppressed or wiped out

Classic examples include: British Australia, French Algeria, Canada, and North America

Let’s see if the case of Israel demonstrates these features.

A Franchisee?

Settler colonialism is usually a franchise model. Some imperial HQ says, “Go forth and colonize!” and ships people over with guns, flags, and an expectation to reap wealth torn from the colonized.

The Zionist movement started as a grassroots effort by Jews who were tired of getting pogromed every other Tuesday. Sure, they got a nod from Britain in the form of the Balfour Declaration, but that’s a long way from imperial orchestration.

(While Britain controlled Palestine under the Mandate, it hardly coddled Zionist aims - especially after the 1939 White Paper, which locked Jews out even as the Holocaust raged. Zionists didn’t march under imperial flags; they were often clashing with them.)

Settler colonialism involves one imperial power shuttling in settlers from a single source. But Jewish immigration to Israel? It came from everywhere: Yemen, Iraq, Morocco, Poland, Russia, Ethiopia, Argentina, Brooklyn…everywhere in the Diaspora.

This wasn’t a colonial outpost of one empire. It was a chaotic, desperate, and diverse ingathering of people trying to survive and rebuild. Half the Jews in Israel today descend from communities that were literally kicked out of Middle Eastern and North African countries.

If it’s settler colonialism, it’s doing it very wrong.

Foreign Settlers?

Settler colonialism usually involves people showing up in a place they have zero connection to and declaring it theirs. Think: Europeans showing up in Australia and telling the Aboriginal peoples, “Nice continent—don’t mind if we do.”

Jews didn’t just randomly pick Israel from a drop-down menu. They’ve had a connection to that land for, oh, 3,000 years or so. Jerusalem isn’t just spiritually significant; it's central. They didn’t have to invent a historical claim—it’s literally baked into their religion, language, and identity. (Quick Hebrew lesson: “Zion” is kind of a giveaway.)

Jews have maintained a continuous presence in the Land of Israel for over 3,000 years, including communities in Jerusalem, Safed, Hebron, and Tiberias, long before modern Zionism emerged.

Calling Jewish return to Israel “settler colonialism” is like calling your grandma a squatter for moving back into her childhood home.

But What About Palestinian Displacement?

Let’s be clear: Yes, during the 1948 war, a large number of Arabs living in Palestine were displaced. That’s a fact, it's not disputable, and it’s not something to brush aside.

This wasn’t, however, some settler-colonial master plan with color-coded maps and a mission to erase or ethnically cleanse non-Jewish peoples.

The early Zionist movement was buying land legally (much of it from absentee Arab landlords) and building farms, schools, and towns. It was a messy nationalist project, like many others in the 20th century. The displacement of Palestinians came not from a blueprint for ethnic cleansing, but from a war. 

The war was launched by neighboring Arab states who made no secret of their goal: to destroy the brand-new Jewish state before it could take its first real breath.

Five Arab armies invaded in 1948, and local Arab leaders, along with the invading forces, told many Palestinian Arabs to temporarily evacuate, assuring them they could return after the Jews were wiped out. 

Things didn't go according to their plans, because Israel survived. 

Historians like Efraim Karsh and Benny Morris document cases where Arab leaders advised evacuation and cases where displacement occurred amid battle. War is brutal, and real people paid the price.

The tragedy is real, but so is the context. The war wasn’t started by Israel. It was a war of survival that Israel fought while vastly outnumbered, outgunned, and surrounded.

And here’s a twist that is usually ignored in modern retellings:

The term Nakba - which today refers almost exclusively to Palestinian displacement, originally meant something else.

In 1948, Arab intellectuals like Constantin Zureiq used “Nakba,” meaning "catastrophe," not to mourn Palestinian suffering, but to describe the colossal failure of the Arab world to crush Israel. In his own words: “The defeat of the Arabs in Palestine is not a small downfall. It is a catastrophe in every sense of the word.”

The shame wasn’t just about lost land—it was about how a supposedly mighty Arab and Islamic world failed to destroy a state of Holocaust survivors and refugees.

The original "Nakba" was about that failure, not the displacement narrative that would emerge decades later.

History is a lot more complicated than hashtags suggest.

But Israel Sought to Wipe Out Local Culture, right?

If Zionism had been a settler colonial project, you'd expect to see that. Settler colonial regimes tend to come in hot with cultural carpet bombing: banning languages, crushing customs, bulldozing identities.

Israel? Not so much. Israel has official protections for Christian, Muslim, Druze, and Baháʼí religious sites. Ever heard of the “status quo” agreements? They govern holy sites like the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and the Al-Aqsa Mosque. Unlike classic settler-colonial cases like the US, Canada, or Australia where indigenous languages, religions, and identities were suppressed, Israel recognizes Arabic as an official language, protects Muslim and Christian holy sites, and integrates minorities into public life with equal legal rights for all citizens.

Is the situation always perfect? No. Does Israel have a Ministry of Culture Death? Also no.

But Israel stripped the land of its natural resources in the name of their imperial project and destroyed the ecology of the land!

First, there was no empire, no monopole to ship anything to because (again) Israel was not the outpost of a foreign empire - it was a desperate refuge for Jews fleeing pogroms, fascism, and a genocide which had wiped out a third of their people. 

Second, what natural resources could they have stripped the land of? Mandate Palestine was not known for its abundant natural treasures. Oil? Nope. Gold? Nada. Fertile, easily farmed land? Not much.

What Zionists did find was malaria, swamps, desert, and the occasional Ottoman tax ledger. The region was, in the words of Samuel Clemens (AKA Mark Twain), "a desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds."

Not exactly a paradise ripe for exploitation.

Here's a twist: rather than destroying the ecology, Israel has spent 75 years rebuilding it. The country has planted over 240 million trees, turning arid hills green and reversing desertification. Israel pioneered drip irrigation - watering crops with scientific precision to conserve every drop. It recycles nearly 90% of its wastewater (second place is Spain at about 30%). The Negev Desert is now home to solar farms, sustainable agriculture, and research centers where scientists grow cherry tomatoes in saltwater and build fish farms in sand.

Israel’s environmental stewardship of the land is so advanced that experts have come from Africa, South America, and India to partner with Israeli experts to tackle their own climate challenges. If this is what settler-colonial ecological destruction looks like, the planet could use a bit more of it.

So no, Israel isn’t extracting the land’s bounty and mailing it to a mythical European mothership. It’s been reclaiming wasteland, reforesting hills, and creating the most efficient water system in the world. And it did all that while fighting seven wars and inventing the USB stick. Not bad for a country the size of New Jersey.

It's a Colonial Struggle!!

It’s a nationalist conflict, not a colonial one. Two peoples - Jewish and Palestinian - with deep historic ties to the same land, both claiming national self-determination. That’s tragic, painful, and hard to resolve. But it’s not the same as a bunch of white Europeans setting up a Starbucks on someone else’s sacred mountain.

Trying to squeeze this conflict into the settler colonial box doesn’t make it clearer—it flattens it. It erases Jewish history and Palestinian suffering in one fell swoop.

History Deserves Better Than Hashtags

Calling Israel a "settler colonial state" might feel like a tidy moral label, but history is messier than slogans. The story is way more complex than “colonizer vs. colonized.” It’s about trauma, return, identity, nationalism, war, and a shitload of of mistakes along the way by all parties involved.

But if you want to understand it, really understand it, you’ve got to ditch the buzzwords and look at the footnotes, because the truth won’t always fit in a meme.

Aforementioned Footnotes:

Wolfe, Patrick. Settler Colonialism and the Elimination of the Native. Journal of Genocide Research, 2006.

https://www.kooriweb.org/foley/resources/pdfs/89.pdf

Veracini, Lorenzo. Settler Colonialism: A Theoretical Overview. Palgrave Macmillan, 2010.

https://link.springer.com/book/10.1057/9780230299191

Bickerman, Elias. From Ezra to the Last of the Maccabees. Schocken Books, 1962.

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.59581

Biblical and archaeological records compiled in Israel

Finkelstein & Neil Asher Silberman, The Bible Unearthed, Free Press, 2001.

https://archive.org/details/bibleunearthedar0000fink/page/n5/mode/2up

Anita Shapira, Israel: A History (Harvard University Press): https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674047426

Jewish National Fund archives of land acquisition documents.

https://archives.cjh.org/repositories/3/resources/19702

Historical Aliyah data

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/total-immigration-to-israel-by-country-per-year

Protection of Holy Places Law, 1967

https://www.bu.edu/mzank/Jerusalem/tx/lawofholyplaces1967.htm

Shapira, Anita. Yosef Hayim Brenner: A Life. Stanford University Press, 2014.

(Documents Jewish labor ethos and rejection of exploitative structures)

https://archive.org/details/yosefhaimbrenner0000shap

On the Nakba

Benny Morris, The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited:

https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300126969/the-birth-of-the-palestinian-refugee-problem-revisited/

Efraim Karsh, Palestine Betrayed:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt1npnkg

Efraim Karsh, 1948, Israel, and the Palestinians – the True Story, Middle East Quarterly (2008)

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258996946_1948_Israel_and_the_Palestinians_-_The_True_Story

Constantin Zureiq, Ma'na al-Nakba (1948):

https://archive.org/details/zurayk-nakba

_____

If you want to argue with this in the replies, please do- but bring receipts.

[iamthetruenhaz]

ahhhh, the hated non-westerners, starting from "off-white"

they ruined politics

americans getting mad at poles, bosnians, and others criticizing the democrats, saying they helped the republicans... i'm sure there's nothing to learn here

[sorrymyrabbisaidno]

Goyim when Ashkenazi Jews formed in the European diaspora: *calls them middle Eastern Interlopers*

Goyim when Ashkenazi Jews move back to the middle east: *calls them European Interlopers*

It's almost like it's not really about where Jews live and it's really about antisemitism! Funny how that works huh?

[chanaleah]

Today's Israeli claim to self-determination has no sense, since the vast majority of Israeli are Askenazi. They are litteraly mixed! And, have emigrated back to their land after over A THOUSEND YEAR. How can we still take seriously a claim to a land, you, supposevely, have habitated after a thousend? Gheddafi was right. Israel is a Rhodesia who has been succeful to replace the native population with white Europeans. Again, Askenazi are to be considered white Europeans, as they lost all of their middle eastern traits and completely mixed up with Europeans

again y’all let’s use our bestie Google!

the vast majority of Israelis are not Ashkenazi, which again, you would know if you took 5 minutes to do a quote Google search. But that doesn’t matter, because indigenity doesn’t expire.

Again, indigenity doesn’t expire.

The ancestors of today’s Ashkenazim were forced out of our land and prevented from coming back. But they never assimilated, and this can be seen in the food we cooked, songs we sang, and languages we spoke and prayed in.

How long must someone be prevented from returning to their land before they lose their indigenity? Are the Cherokee no longer indigenous to the southeastern US because they’ve been forced out of their land?

Not to mention that Jews maintained a consistent presence in א״י throughout the diaspora despite the constant empires trying to force us out.

Furthermore, while indigenity is not determined by genetics, genetic studies consistently show Ashkenazi Jews as plurally Levantine, and most every other Jewish diaspora group’s DNA is majority Levantine. This is corroborated by pretty much every reliable study of Ashkenazim.

Also, self-determination doesn’t require being an indigenous people. For example, Italians aren’t considered an indigenous people, but they do deserve self determination, and they currently do self determine in Italy. Jews have remained a distinct ethnoreligious group for around 3000 years, so just like any other ethnic group, we have the right to self determination. And our right to self determination doesn’t and shouldn’t alienate the rights to self determination of any other group.

Your blood quantum BS isn’t appreciated here, anon.

[jewish-sideblog]

Are you fucking for real with this? Y’all have really been whipped into such an antisemitic frenzy like.

“Members of a non-European ethnic group were displaced from their ancestral land and forced to take European names in Western nations hundreds of years ago. Now they’re changing their names back to names that have historical precedent in their native languages. (Black people)” is universally accepted as a good thing by liberals / leftists / anti-racists. But for some reason

“Members of a non-European ethnic group were displaced from their ancestral land and forced to take European names in Western nations hundreds of years ago. Now they’re changing their names back to names that have historical precedent in their native languages. (Jewish people)” is considered a horrifyingly evil colonial tactic?

Most Jews living in European diaspora didn’t have surnames at all until a handful of centuries ago. Sephardim were forced to take on Spanish surnames to avoid being killed by the Inquisition following the Alhambra Decree in 1492. Ashkenazim were forced to adopt Germanic and Eastern European names in different nations at different times between the 1780s and the 1850s. Both Ben Gurion and Netanyahu’s “white” names were forced upon them by local Prussian, Russian, or Austro-Hungarian officials less than three hundred years ago. Adopting Hebrew-or-Yiddish-derived last names were banned by most of these laws. When Jewish families left the nations that had forced them to adopt white Germanic last names, they adopted indigenous Jewish last names instead.

David Ben Gurion was born David Güre. He literally just added a Hebrew patronymic prefix to his father’s last name. Meanwhile Mohammed Ali was born Cassius Marcellus Clay. Amiri Baraka was born Everett Leroy Jones. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was born Ferdinand Lewis Alcindor. When you commend black people for shaking off names that were forced upon them by Europeans three hundred years ago, but vilify Jewish people for doing the exact same thing, you’re antisemitic. There’s no other way around it.

[mariacallous]

Winter is citrus season. The sweetest and juiciest oranges, lemons and grapefruits appear in stores just when we seem to need them the most. What could be more welcome on a gray January day than a sunny burst of vitamin C from your favorite citrus fruit?

Not only are citrus fruits delicious and healthy, but they also have a long association with the Jewish people. Humans have cultivated citrus fruits, which originally came from south and east Asia, for thousands of years. Indeed, we Jews are aware, if perhaps unconsciously, of the ancient connection between humans and citrus fruits because of how we celebrate the festival of Sukkot. An etrog— which in botanical terms is an ancient citrus variety known as a citron — is an essential part of that holiday observance. While the Bible does not mention the etrog by name, the citron was identified as the required “fruit of the goodly tree” as early as the second century B.C.E.

As Jews began to spread out into the Diaspora during the late Roman Empire, they had to ensure that, come autumn, they could still find a perfect etrog to use for this important religious observance. Thus, one of the many agricultural activities these settlers engaged in was cultivating citrons. (Interestingly, these early centers of Jewish population coincide with continued areas of citrus production in the Mediterranean today: southern Spain, Sicily and Calabria in Italy, the Nile Delta, the Levant and Algeria.) Many scholars attribute the continued cultivation of citrus fruits in Europe following the collapse of the Roman empire, and the ensuing chaos, to Jewish horticulturists whose need for the fruit was undiminished.

The cultivation of other citrus species was a byproduct of these early Jewish settlers’ need for citron. Almost all citrus varieties are sexually compatible with one another, and they are highly prone to mutation. Such traits allowed their genes to mix naturally for thousands of years and made it feasible for humans to cross-breed the different varieties. Indeed, just about every citrus fruit you have ever seen comes from just three ancestors: the citron, the pomelo and the mandarin.

From the 10th century onward, citron trees served as grafting stock for other kinds of citrus. By the end of the 13th century, fruits that we would recognize as oranges and lemons were widely grown in the land of Israel and by the next century Jewish merchants, through their contacts in the Levant began importing them to Italy.

Thus began the long association between Jews and the citrus trade in the eyes of Europeans. Starting in the Middle Ages, Jewish merchants traveled from the Mediterranean to northern and eastern Europe with citrons to sell to their brothers and sisters living in colder climes. This led to a thriving trade in all kinds of citrus, not merely etrogs, and not only to Jewish customers. Italian Jewish traders who settled in Germany used their contacts to import citrus from the Mediterranean to sell to any customers who could afford the high price. In 18th-century England, Jewish peddlers were known to specialize in citrus fruits.

Beginning in the 19th century, Zionist rabbis and other Jewish leaders began encouraging their followers to seek out citrons grown in Palestine instead of those grown around the Mediterranean. This was due in part to anti-Jewish riots on the Greek island of Corfu where many of the citrons destined for northern Europe were grown. Today, of course, Israeli farmers continue to grow and export citrus — more to Europe than to the United States, which has its own robust citrus industry — especially the famous Jaffa orange, which in the 1950s and ’60s was a symbol of pride for the young nation.

So, when you peel a perfect round orange or squeeze some lemon into your tea this winter, know that it is in large part due to the efforts of Jewish farmers and merchants from centuries ago that today we enjoy such a wide variety of citrus fruits.

In that spirit, at this bountiful time of year, do not limit yourselves to the familiar lemons, limes and navel oranges. Explore the whole range of citrus fruits from blood oranges and Key limes to Meyer lemons, pomelos and kumquats. Your local grocery store should have a wide variety of these novel citrus fruits available through March. Here is a guide to some of the best of winter citrus for your enjoyment.

Blood Orange: There are three types — Moro, Tarocco and Sanguinello — with a flavor that ranges from tart to semi-sweet depending on the type and season. Named for the deep, beet red color of their flesh, blood oranges are usually smaller than navel oranges and have a dimpled peel. Because of its unique color, the blood orange is often incorporated into recipes, from cocktails to preserves.

Cara Cara: Chefs love this pink-fleshed navel orange. It’s slightly sweeter and less acidic than a regular orange and has a very delicate berry flavor. Use this variety in place of oranges in any recipe or add them to a citrus salad for extra color and brightness.

Seville Sour Orange: This variety is sometimes called the bitter orange and commonly used in the production of marmalade. The Seville is tart and grown throughout the Mediterranean, but can be hard to find in the U.S. It’s also the a key ingredient in the orange-flavored liqueur Triple Sec.

Meyer Lemons: This lemon-orange hybrid is the darling of the citrus world. Its rind is a vibrant, deep yellow and has a strongly perfumed, almost herbal aroma. Its flesh is darker in color than a regular lemon and more sweet than tart, which means you can use the raw segments in a salad, much like an orange or grapefruit. Delicious in baked goods, marmalade or lemon curd.

Key Limes: Smaller than its cousin, the Persian lime, the Key lime is particularly juicy and acidic. It has a smooth rind, a greenish-yellow color when ripe and lots of seeds. Key limes have a distinctive aroma and taste which make them a favorite of bakers everywhere. Of course, pie is what Key limes are best known for, but you can substitute Key lime juice in any lime recipe for a fresh twist.

Pomelos: Often the size of bowling balls, pomelos can look intimidating. The rind can range in color from yellow to green, and the pulp can be white, pink, or somewhere in between. The pith is very thick, so it’s best to cut away as much of the rind and pith as you can first before peeling away at its segments. Think of the taste of a pomelo as akin to a mild grapefruit—sweet and without bitterness. Pomelos are common in southeast Asian cuisine.

Kumquats: You can actually eat the skin of these tiny citrus fruits. About the size of a large olive, kumquats tend to be sweet on the outside and quite tart on the inside. You can slice them into salads, muddle them in a cocktail, candy them or even cook them down into a sweet and spicy chutney.

Buddha’s Hand: This citrus easily wins the prize for most bizarre looking. The fingerlike fruit has a complex lemon aroma and actually contains no pulp or juice—it’s made up of a yellow rind and white pith. The rind can be used in any place lemon zest is called for, or try candying the peel.

Craving some citrus? Try one of these:

Moroccan Orange and Black Olive Salad

Orange and Pomegranate Salad

Lemon Chicken Soup with Swiss Chard and Rice

Blood Orange Martini

Lemon Sponge Cake with Candied Citrus

[valkyries-things]

MAMI WATA // WEST AFRICAN WATER SPIRIT

“She is a mermaid, water spirit, and/or goddess in the folklore of parts of Western Africa, Eastern Africa, and Southern Africa. The name Mami Wata does not precisely refer to a single deity or mythological figure but more accurately refers to a family of water spirits, collectively known as mami wata, found in both modern Africa and in the art and artifacts of ancient African civilization from at least 4500 BCE. Her face & name have changed since the birth of the African diaspora during the 15th century. But don't get it twisted, this energy has existed long before modern interaction via European colonization. The change of her face & name was a necessity, as traditional African Spirituality became treacherous to practice during the middle passage & slavery era. She became Santa Marta La Dominadora or Saint Martha the Dominator, the energy being weaved into a Catholic saint because Christianity was the religion many Africans were coerced into practicing.”

(extra information added by @ladygem1ni)

[jewish-vents]

maybe more of a question than a vent, but it's a question without an answer - do you think if the goyim recognized that Jews are an ethnic group, an indigenous *tribe* of people, this would be treated differently, or Israel might be seen as land back for us after thousands of years of exile? because I keep seeing stuff like, "you can't just take land because some made up God promised it to you," which of course is intentionally degrading Judaism, but that's not the point. it's not a religious connection, it's ancestral. Am Yisrael is a TRIBE. maybe it's because of supersessionism and seeing Judaism as Christianity lite (Christianity sans Jesus, Christianity 1.0), and Christianity is mostly seen as "white" and as European colonialism and a "Western" religion, and Islam is seen as "brown" and exotified and an "Eastern" religion (and we're not supposed to talk about it being colonial and proselytizing and conquering people similarly to Christianity at all, I guess?). so Judaism is dismissed because they don't understand that it's an ethnoreligion. our holidays and calendar are tied to our homeland. UNAVOIDABLY, you can't magically extract that connection or pretend it doesn't exist, or you only have a shell of Judaic tradition. our prayers, our practices, they're tribal. they're tied to our history too. they can't be universalized easily, you can't just make up rituals. the reason Judaism is a closed practice is because we're a people, and converts literally become part of that tribe.

there are other indigenous people in the world who are recognized as indigenous, not because of skin color, but because of history and ancestral connection to the land. this obsession with race science and the American lens and the "oppressor" label being pasted over Jews simply does not work, especially after generations spent in diaspora where of course we had to adapt and assimilate and were threatened/assaulted/killed, so features we have changed and diversified. it doesn't change our ethnicity though. Jews are from Judea. we always have been.

even saying "goyim" and then people claiming that's a slur, it's not true because it's just "not one of the Jewish tribe," it's not about supremacy or othering. it only is to distinguish that we are our own people.

why don't they understand this? why is it such a hard concept to grasp? we're a tribe with tribal customs, language, practices, and heritage, and we came from a specific land. you'd think progressives could easily grasp this but instead we're demons, greedy killers who don't belong? that's what you all called us while living in diaspora too, so! where can we go and live safely that you won't decide makes us oppressive monsters? our history has been obliterated and stolen from us all over the world, we've been forced out and murdered time after time. what will it take for us to be recognized as human beings?

.

[gemsofgreece]

Do greeks consider themselves as eastern european/balkan or do you hate that ? In france, the greek diaspora consider itself eastern euro and feels a bond with other balkaners, unlike the italians and french e.g, BUT on the english speaking internet it is the whole opposite, you seemed to be offended being called something else than southern european. I remember having an argument on reddit where i was saying that greece is EE because commie times arent a good indicators as it was 30 years ago for only 45 years while the old latin west greek east (catholic vs orthodox, rome vs constantinople) division was better as it lasted 2000 years, on top of being ottoman for 4 centuries which was the OG meaning of balkans and that in southEAST europe there is EAST. But all of the greeks said that they were 100% south europe only like the pigs and not e.g montenegro and that they were actually closer to WE.

The average greek and your thoughts on this ?

I can't speak for the average Greek because there's a joke saying "in the room there are three Greeks and seven opinions", you know...

Balkans and East Europe are not synonyms. The Balkans are a small part in the south of East Europe. Greeks are Balkaners to the core but the more you reach into the north fringes of the Balkans and farther towards North East Europe, the similarities start falling apart. In this sense, Greece is indeed more South Europe than East Europe because Greece has similarities with pretty much all South European countries, even Portugal, and it has fewer similarities with, say, the Baltic countries or Poland or Hungary. Personally, I think the region of noticeable similarities to Greece end somewhere across Croatia and Romania. In the East the similarities may extend farther in the countries where Orthodoxy is the prevalent religion so well into Southwest Russia and then towards Caucasus. Anyway my point is, a Greek will likely get more easily along with a Catholic Spanish or a Portuguese person than with a Catholic Slovenian or Hungarian person who are far closer geographically. Therefore, Greece is indeed more South Europe than East Europe.

The Greek people you noticed who did not get along with French or Italians, that's probably incidental. Typically Greeks get along with both South Europeans and other Balkaners, with the southern Greeks and islanders gravitating towards the former and northern Greeks gravitating towards the latter. Perhaps those Greeks were Northern Greeks. Perhaps they also bonded with other Balkaners on the basis of both being immigrants, as opposed to the local French.

Greece is Southeast and Balkan Europe, therefore it is East Europe by definition. The problem is that a) nowadays Greeks have very poor knowledge of history and b) there is this unfortunate stereotype permeating across the continent that tRuE Europe = Northwest Europe and that the east is backwards and underdeveloped. And because Greece is ALSO a honorary member of West Europe, Greeks have latched on this “convenient” opportunity to at least verbally distance themselves from East Europe, losing parts of their identity and their understanding of it in the process.

Now you may ask “what the hell is a honorary member of West Europe”. Well, Greece. Because of this whole “cradle of western civilisation” thing, the West honorarily accepts Greece as part of Western Europe. I don’t know if people realise that while it’s good when someone tells you “I want you to be part of us out of honour”, it’s extremely problematic in its essence because it screams the inherent superiority syndrome of West Europe. “We have picked up your entire culture so we allow you to be considered West Europe.” Well, thanks, but no thanks, folks.

Take a look at that:

See? It was not just angry Reddit Greeks. This is technically the "official" international stance on the matter.

There are in fact even foreign people who don't think Greece is part of the Balkans at all, which is insane because why would you even call it Balkan "peninsula" if not for Greece being in it??????? I repeat, Greece is 100% a Balkan country. Not only that but Greeks are one of the four Palaeo-Balkan peoples (Greeks - Thracians - Illyrians - Dacians).

And here’s where I am going to add one more layer to your mail, the biggest misconception about the Greeks, the one that the foreigners are just as guilty of, if not even more; you said, Greeks are more Eastern Europeans because of East Rome / Byzantine Empire and Ottomans. Well, that’s only part of it. There is simply no part of Greek history that is not eastern because the Ancient Greek was an eastern civilisation! One of the major ancient civilisations springing from the culture hub of the Near East and its periphery. Greeks interacted for centuries with Egyptians, Persians, Hittites, Phoenicians etc before they finally interacted with westerners, the Romans, and to whom they culturally gave more than they took. But even that was forgotten in the Middle Ages in the west (but not in the eastern - of course - Roman / Byzantine Empire). The Ancient Greek heritage was only re-discovered in West Europe during the Renaissance and the Enlightenment and that’s when West Europeans “remembered” suddenly that they are cultural children of the Ancient Greeks (well they aren’t, at least not organically) and therefore they now have to suffer modern Greece being acknowledged as part of the west because they don’t want to spell out that “Western Civilization” is just the formation of several western contemporary societies using elements from the foundations of an ancient Eastern Civilization. Westerners would love to think West sprang from a parthenogenesis but in truth the West sprang from the East.

So, yes, the Greeks started as Easterners, kept being Easterners and they are still Easterners. This however does not mean that they have all that many similarities to Eastern Europeans who expand on the north. Greeks have more connections to the south, the southwest and to the true east. They are technically less now though compared to all past periods of Greece because it is only after the independence and the formation of the modern state that Greeks became so west-oriented. The reason for this was their urgent need to distance themselves as much as possible from Turkey and find allies and supporters in the west, who would be willing to aid and support in the basis of protecting “the cradle of the West”.

Here I must add that the West has indeed taken a lot from Ancient Greece and respects it way more than the East (due to the recent historical and religious developments there). All I say is it was not organic, it was not the natural evolution of the western culture. And I am not saying Greece should distance itself from the West. No, I do think we should have strong bonds and be companions and co-members and allies but that doesn’t mean we should rewrite history and erase our identity in the name of this alliance. I am fine with Greece being the most west-friendly country of East Europe, which it already is. I just wished Greeks celebrated more their Eastern identity, rekindled their relations to any potential alienated eastern friends and did not fall victims into one of the biggest historical propagandas and misconceptions there are: Ancient Greeks = Western and powerful versus Byzantine and Modern Greeks = Eastern therefore useless and different people.

To end this far too long ongoing discourse, Greeks are all the following:

Europeans

South Europeans

Balkaners

Mediterraneans

(not applying to everybody) descended from Anatolians - Greek Asians - from Asia Minor

East Europeans

currently so politically and financially western allied and so influential to the west that they are essentially perceived to function more like West Europeans than East Europeans, without however being true Western Europeans

[blackstarlineage]

Over-Reliance on Foreign Powers and Ideologies Instead of Pan-African Solidarity: A Garveyite Perspective

Introduction: The Crisis of Dependency and the Need for Self-Reliance

One of the greatest weaknesses of the African/Black world today is its dependence on foreign powers, institutions, and ideologies. Instead of focusing on self-sufficiency, internal economic cooperation, and Pan-African unity, many Black nations and communities look to Western nations, China, the UN, the IMF, and other external entities for solutions.

From a Garveyite perspective, this over-reliance is not an accident—it is a direct result of colonial conditioning, designed to:

Keep Africa and the diaspora politically and economically dependent.

Prevent the development of self-sufficient Black nations and institutions.

Ensure that foreign powers control African resources, policies, and economies.

If Black people do not break free from this cycle of dependency and prioritize Pan-African self-reliance, they will remain under the control of neocolonial forces, unable to shape their own destiny.

1. The Historical Origins of Black Dependency on Foreign Powers

A. The Colonial Strategy of Creating African and Diasporic Dependence

Colonizers and enslavers deliberately stripped Black people of self-sufficiency to make them permanently dependent on European and Arab rule.

This was done by:

Destroying independent African economies and making Black nations rely on European trade.

Forcing enslaved Africans to abandon their skills and rely on white-controlled economies.

Replacing African governance and legal systems with European models that required foreign oversight.

Example: After slavery was abolished, Black people in the Americas were denied land ownership and economic independence, ensuring they would remain under white economic control.

Key Takeaway: Colonialism and slavery were not just about labor—they were about creating permanent Black dependency on foreign systems.

B. The Role of Foreign Ideologies in Suppressing Pan-African Thought

Foreign political, religious, and economic ideologies were used to disconnect Black people from their own traditions and make them adopt European/Arab-centered ways of thinking.

This resulted in:

Black nations adopting European democracy, instead of African governance models.

Western-style capitalism and socialism replacing African economic self-sufficiency.

Arab and European religions replacing indigenous African spiritual systems.

Example: Many African leaders today look to the West or the Middle East for ideological guidance, rather than studying pre-colonial African governance models that worked for centuries.

Key Takeaway: When Black people adopt foreign ideologies blindly, they reject their own intellectual and cultural heritage.

2. The Modern Consequences of Over-Reliance on Foreign Powers

A. Economic Dependency on Foreign Institutions

Instead of developing their own industries, banks, and trade networks, many African nations and Black economies remain controlled by:

The International Monetary Fund (IMF) and World Bank, which trap them in debt.

Foreign corporations, which extract Africa’s natural resources without reinvesting in Black communities.

Western and Chinese investors, who profit while African nations remain underdeveloped.

Example: Many African countries borrow billions from the IMF, only to remain in perpetual debt, losing economic control to foreign entities.

Key Takeaway: A nation that does not control its own economy is not truly independent.

B. Political Dependency on Western and Eastern Powers

Many Black nations fail to act independently in global politics, instead choosing to align with:

Western nations like the U.S., UK, and France, which interfere in African and Caribbean affairs.

China and Russia, which present themselves as “alternative partners” but still exploit Africa.

The UN and EU, which dictate policies to Black nations without truly benefiting them.

Example: The African Union often waits for Western validation before taking political action, proving that many African leaders are still mentally colonized.

Key Takeaway: True political sovereignty means making decisions based on Black interests—not foreign approval.

C. The Psychological Effects of Seeking Validation from Foreign Powers

Many Black leaders and intellectuals still believe that progress must come from the West or East, rather than from within the Black world itself.

This results in:

A lack of confidence in African solutions.

Blind imitation of Western policies that do not fit African or Caribbean needs.

A failure to recognize the power of Pan-African cooperation.

Example: When African nations face crises, they often turn to the UN or the West for “help”, instead of forming Pan-African coalitions to solve their own problems.

Key Takeaway: A mentally enslaved people will always look to their former masters for guidance, instead of trusting their own wisdom.

3. The Failure of Foreign Ideologies to Address Black Issues

A. Western Capitalism and Its Exploitation of Black Nations

Capitalism has failed Black nations because it:

Prioritizes profit over community well-being.

Creates massive wealth gaps, leaving Black workers in poverty.

Encourages foreign exploitation of African resources.

Example: Africa is rich in gold, oil, and minerals, yet most Africans remain poor because foreign corporations own these industries.

Key Takeaway: Western capitalism does not serve Black interests—Africans must develop their own economic models.

B. The Failure of Western Democracy in Africa and the Caribbean

Western democracy was imposed on Black nations without considering African governance traditions.

It has led to:

Corrupt leaders backed by Western governments.

Endless political instability and coups.

Foreign nations influencing African elections.

Example: Many African elections are funded and influenced by Western nations, proving that political sovereignty is still an illusion.

Key Takeaway: African nations must create governance systems based on African history, not foreign political theories.

4. The Garveyite Solution: Pan-African Solidarity and Self-Reliance

A. Building Pan-African Economic Networks

Black nations must:

Trade more with each other, rather than relying on the West and China.

Invest in Black-owned banks, businesses, and industries.

Develop an independent African currency, free from Western control.

Example: The African Continental Free Trade Area (AfCFTA) is a step toward economic independence, but it must be fully embraced by all African nations.

Key Takeaway: A free economy means trading within the Black world—not depending on foreign nations.

B. Strengthening Pan-African Political Alliances

Black nations and communities must:

Coordinate their political strategies across the diaspora.

Resist Western and Eastern interference in African and Caribbean affairs.

Build stronger ties between Africa, the Caribbean, and Black America.

Example: The Caribbean and African Union should create a unified political strategy, rather than acting separately.

Key Takeaway: Only a strong, unified Black political front can challenge global oppression.

C. Reclaiming African Intellectual and Cultural Ideologies

Black people must:

Develop political and economic systems based on African traditions.

Stop idolizing foreign ideologies and embrace Pan-African thought.

Reject Western and Arab cultural dominance over Black societies.

Example: Instead of copying Western or Eastern governance models, African nations should study their own pre-colonial systems of leadership, trade, and law.

Key Takeaway: A people that copies foreign cultures will never truly be free.

Conclusion: Will Black People Choose Pan-African Unity or Remain Under Foreign Control?

Marcus Garvey said:

“A race that is solely dependent upon another for its economic existence sooner or later dies.”

Will Black people continue looking to foreign nations for solutions, or build their own institutions?

Will we rely on the West, China, and Russia, or embrace Pan-African economic and political power?

Will we break free from mental slavery, or continue to worship foreign ideologies over African wisdom?

The Choice is Ours. The Time is Now.

[unsolicited-opinions]

One of the false myths that stand in the way of peace is that the Jews are foreign European-based colonizers, encroaching upon the indigenous Palestinians who have lived in the land for thousands of years. In reality, Jews are indigenous to this land. Their religion, culture and unique identity originated in Israel thousands of years ago and are fundamentally and perpetually connected to that part of the Levant. Conversely, and surprisingly to some, Islam and Arabism are of foreign origins. Based in the Arabian peninsula, Islam and Arab culture were spread through the Levant by the sword and through subsequent assimilation beginning in the 7th century AD, roughly 2,000 years after the earliest Jewish presence in the land. Cultures and languages need not be European in origin to be exported, and colonialism is not exclusively “white”. Genetically, Jews are demonstrably Levantine in origin, and while 2,000 years of diaspora impacted their genotypes (most Jews today are roughly a genetic mix of 50% Levantine origin and 50% admixture with diasporic host populations) and phenotypes (Ashkenazi Jews appear more “white” because of European admixture, while Mizrahi Jews appear more “brown” because of Middle-Eastern admixture), their culture and origin are indisputably Judean, Levantine, Israeli. Palestinians are also, by and large, Levantine in origin. Though they’ve adopted a foreign culture and religion as their own, and have integrated with foreign populations who have migrated to and through the region over the years – mostly from the Arabian peninsula and North Africa, but also from southern Europe and Mesopotamia – their genotype is predominantly Levantine and likely, to some extent, Judean as well. Genetic studies demonstrating the similarities between Palestinians and Jews support that. The myth of the white Jew vs. the brown Palestinian is propaganda, meant to leverage European and American liberals’ guilt and apologism over their colonialist past to create a misguided affinity with the Palestinians and animosity toward Israelis. Should all parties realize that the conflict is, in fact, between brothers of a common origin who were separated involuntarily by the tides of history, peace may easily follow. The photos for this game are selected at random, and most players get roughly 60%-70% of them correct.  If selecting blindly, a player would get about 50% correct. Playing a similar game between, for example, Dutch colonizers of South Africa vs. the indigenous population of the same region, a player would likely get 100% correct without breaking a sweat. I hope this helps crystalize the nuanced reality of this conflict for those who would otherwise be all too eager to see it as black and white.

[leroibobo]

some notes on specifically "middle eastern" (mashriqi + iran, caucuses, and turkey) jewish communities/history:

something to keep in mind: judaism isn't "universalist" like christianity or islam - it's easier to marry into it than to convert on your own. conversions historically happened, but not in the same way they did for european and caucasian christians/non-arab muslims.

that being said, a majority of middle eastern jews descend from jewish population who remained in palestine or immigrated/were forced (as is the case with "kurdish" jews) from palestine to other areas and mixed with locals/others who came later (which at some point stopped). pretty much everywhere in the middle east and north africa (me/na) has/had a jewish population like this.

with european jews (as in all of them), the "mixing" was almost entirely during roman times with romans/greeks, and much less later if they left modern-day greece/italy.

(none of this means jewish people are or aren't "indigenous" to palestine, because that's not what that word means.)

like with every other jewish diaspora, middle eastern jewish cultures were heavily influenced by wherever they ended up. on a surface level you can see this in things like food and music.

after the expulsion of jews from spain and portugal, sephardim moved to several places around the world; many across me/na, mostly to the latter. most of the ones who ended up in the former went to present-day egypt, palestine, lebanon, syria, and turkey. a minority ended up in iraq (such as the sassoons' ancestors). like with all formerly-ottoman territories, there was some degree of back and forth between countries and continents.

some sephardim intermarried with local communities, some didn't. some still spoke ladino, some didn't. there was sometimes a wealth gap between musta'arabim and sephardim, and/or they mostly didn't even live in the same places, like in palestine and tunisia. it really depends on the area you're looking at.

regardless, almost all the jewish populations in the area went through "sephardic blending" - a blending of local and sephardic customs - to varying degrees. it's sort of like the cultural blending that came with spanish/portugese colonization in central and south america (except without the colonization).

how they were treated also really depends where/when you're looking. some were consistently dealt a raw hand (like "kurdish" and yemenite jews) while some managed to do fairly well, all things considered (like baghdadi and georgian jews). most where somewhere in between. the big difference between me/na + some balkan and non-byzantine european treatment of jews is due to geography - attitudes in law regarding jews in those areas tended to fall into different patterns.

long story short: most european governments didn't consider anyone who wasn't "christian" a citizen (sometimes even if they'd converted, like roma; it was a cultural/ethnic thing as well), and persecuted them accordingly; justifying this using "race science" when religion became less important there after the enlightenment.

most me/na and the byzantine governments considered jews (and later, christians) citizens, but allowed them certain legal/social opportunities while limiting/banning/imposing others. the extent of both depend on where/when you're looking but it was never universally "equal".

in specifically turkey, egypt, palestine, and the caucuses, there were also ashkenazi communities, who came mainly because living as a jew in non-ottoman europe at the time sucked more than in those places. ottoman territories in the balkans were also a common destination for this sort of migration.

in the case of palestine, there were often religious motivations to go as well, as there were for some other jews who immigrated. several hasidic dynasites more or less came in their entirety, such as the lithuanian/polish/hungarian ones which precede today's neutrei karta.

ashkenazi migration didn't really happen until jewish emancipation in europe for obvious reasons. it also predates zionism - an initially secular movement based on contemporaneous european nationalist ideologies - by some centuries.

most ashkenazi jews today reside in the us, while most sephardic or "mizrahi" jews are in occupied palestine. there, the latter outnumber the former. you're more likely to find certain groups (like "kurds" and yemenites) in occupied palestine than others (like persians and algerians) - usually ones without a western power that backed them from reactionary antisemitic persecution and/or who came from poorer communities. (and no, this doesn't "justify" the occupation).

(not to say there were none who immigrated willingly/"wanted" to go, or that none/all are zionist/anti-zionist. (ben-gvir is of "kuridsh" descent, for example.) i'm not here to parse motivations.)

this, along with a history of racism/chauvinism from the largely-ashkenazi "left", are why many mizrahim vote farther "right".

(in some places, significant numbers of the jewish community stayed, like turkey, tunisia, and iran. in some others, there's evidence of double/single-digit and sometimes crypto-jewish communities.)

worldwide, the former outnumber the latter. this is thought to be because of either a medieval ashkenazi population boom due to decreased population density (not talking about the "khazar theory", which has been proven to be bullshit, btw) or a later, general european one in the 18th/19th centuries due to increased quality of life.

the term "mizrahi" ("oriental", though it doesn't have the same connotation as in english) in its current form comes from the zionist movement in the 1940s/50s to describe me/na jewish settlers/refugees.

(i personally don't find it useful outside of israeli jewish socio-politics and use it on my blog only because it's a term everyone's familiar with.)

about specifically palestinian jews:

the israeli term for palestinian jews is "old yishuv". yishuv means settlement. this is in contrast to the "new yishuv", or settlers from the initial zionist settlement period in 1881-1948. these terms are usually used in the sense of describing historical groups of people (similar to how you would describe "south yemenis" or "czechoslovaks").

palestinian jews were absorbed into the israeli jewish population and have "settler privilege" on account of their being jewish. descendants make up something like 8% of the israeli jewish population and a handful (including, bafflingly, netanyahu and smoltrich) are in the current government.

they usually got to keep their property unless it was in an "arab area". there's none living in gaza/the west bank right now unless they're settlers.

their individual views on zionism vary as much as any general population's views vary on anything.

(my "palestinian jews" series isn't intended to posit that they all think the same way i do, but to show a side of history not many people know about. any "bias" only comes from the fact that i have a "bias" too. this is a tumblr blog, not an encyclopedia.)

during the initial zionist settlement period, there were palestinian/"old yishuv" jews who were both for zionism and against it. the former have been a part of the occupation and its government for pretty much its entire history.

some immigrated abroad before 1948 and may refer to themselves as "syrian jews". ("syria" was the name given to syria/lebanon/palestine/some parts of iraq during ottoman times. many lebanese and palestinian christians emigrated at around the same time and may refer to themselves as "syrian" for this reason too.)

ones who stayed or immigrated after for whatever reason mostly refer to themselves as "israeli".

in israeli jewish society, "palestinian" usually implies muslims and christians who are considered "arab" under israeli law. you may get differing degrees of revulsion/understanding of what exactly "palestine"/"palestinians" means but the apartheid means that palestinian =/= jewish.

because of this, usage of "palestinian" as a self-descriptor varies. your likelihood of finding someone descendent from/with ancestry from the "old yishuv" calling themselves a "palestinian jew" in the same way an israeli jew with ancestry in morocco would call themselves a "moroccan jew" is low.

(i use it on here because i'm assuming everyone knows what i mean.)

samaritans aren't 'jewish', they're their own thing, though they count as jewish under israeli law.

[useless-catalanfacts]

Frequently Asked Questions

This post answers the following questions:

Who are the Catalans? Where are they?

Which are the Catalan Countries? (each Catalan country)

Where can I learn the Catalan language? (free online resources and where to find classes)

What social media accounts can I follow that post in Catalan?

Other Tumblr blogs similar to this one but for other cultures of the world.

If your question isn't answered here, you're more than welcome to send me an ask!

1. Who are the Catalans? Where are they?

Catalan people are a cultural group who come from the area known as the Catalan Countries. We speak the Catalan language (a language that descends from Latin) and have a distinct culture (cuisine, traditions, holidays, dances, music, literature, etc) and history since the Middle Ages.

Our nation is the Catalan Countries, located in the coast of the Mediterranean sea, in South-Western Europe.

As a result of past wars and invasions, most of the Catalan Countries are under Spanish rule and a part of it is under French rule (+1 city in Italy). In fact, Spain and France have harshly persecuted, illegalized and tried to exterminate the Catalan language and culture for a long time, well into the 20th century. But Catalan people have survived the ethnocide and we still exist, even though we continue to face discrimination and there are some settings where it's still not legal to speak Catalan (for example, public schools in the French-controlled part, or European Union ambits, among some others).

There is also Catalan diaspora around the world.

We are not a closed culture, we are very open to foreigners learning our language and culture, and the Catalan diaspora often organizes celebrations for our holidays or groups to do traditional activities (most famously the castellers, aka human towers) that everyone can join.

2. Which are the Catalan Countries?

We say the Catalan Countries in plural because it's made of different areas for historical reasons. The Catalan Countries are all the areas where Catalan is the native language, which have historically been part of a whole, and which share a common culture (with local variants, of course). Here they are:

From North to South:

Northern Catalonia. Capital city: Perpinyà. It's under French administration (part of the region Occitanie in the new French regions system, used to be Languedoc-Roussillon in the old one).

Andorra. Capital city: Andorra la Vella. It's an independent microstate.

Catalonia. Capital city: Barcelona. It's under Spanish administration (it's the Catalonia region in the Spanish regions system).

Eastern Strip, also called Aragon Strip. It's under Spanish administration (it's part of the region of Aragon in the Spanish regions system).

Balearic Islands, including Mallorca, Menorca, Eivissa (in English also known as Ibiza) and Formentera. Capital city: Palma. Under Spanish administration (Balearics region in the Spanish regions system).

Valencian Country. Capital city: València. Under Spanish administration (called Valencian Community in the Spanish regions system).

El Carxe. Tiny rural area. Under Spanish administration (part of the Region of Murcia in the Spanish regions system).

L'Alguer. One city in the island of Sardinia. Under Italian administration (part of the region of Sardinia in the Italian regions system).

3. Where can I learn the Catalan language?

We are thrilled that you want to learn our language. Catalan people love it when others learn our language. Here I'll link you to classes and free online resources.

If you want face-to-face classes outside of the Catalan Countries, you can check this website to find if there's a university that offers Catalan classes near you. There are 101 around Europe, 25 in North America and Cuba, 5 in Asia, and 4 in South America. Students from these courses can also participate in language stays and internships in the Catalan Countries.

If you're already in the Catalan Countries, you will easily find courses for foreigners which the government offers for free or for a cheap price (depending on the level and each person's economic situation). Check out your local CPNL (Consorci per la Normalització Lingüística).

If you want to learn independently on the internet, there are two resources I recommend the most, both are available online for free.

One is the book "Life in Catalonia. Learn Catalan from..." that you can find in various languages. Here I add the link to the official government page where you can legally download the PDFs for free, you only have to scroll down and click under where it says "text complet". You can find the book Learn Catalan from English, from Spanish, from Arabic, from Tamazight, from French, from Hindi, from Urdu, from Punjabi, from Romanian, from Russian, and from Chinese.

The other resource I recommend the most is the online course Parla.cat. It has different levels for beginners or advanced learners. You have to create an account (it asks for an official document number, don't worry about it, it's not a sketchy site, it's because it's an official course paid by the government of Catalonia and if you immigrated to Catalonia having taken this course would officially count as a language course and can give you some benefits). You can either use it for free (all the learning material is available in the free version) or you can use the paying version. In the paid version, you will get assigned a language teacher from Catalonia who can help you and correct you.

There are many more resources. You can find more free resources in this post, this post, or in this link.

Here you have some recommendations to start practising. And remember that you can watch Catalonia's public TV streaming service 3Cat for free from anywhere in the world!

4. I want to follow social media accounts that post in Catalan. Can you tell me some?

Of course! According to the WWW Consortium, Catalan is the 35th most used language on the Internet, out of the more than 7,000 languages in the world.

Here's some lists with recommendations by topic:

Anime and manga

Cooking

Travel accounts

Videogames

Fashion and lifestyle

Folk culture

More lists will be coming soon

Update: a new website has been published which lists people who post in Catalan by topic. Find it here: llista.cat.

If your question wasn't answered, you can send me a question clicking here. 🙂 You can also browse this blog by topics here.

5. Can you recommend other blogs like this one but for other cultures of the world?

Yes, I made a list of recommendations in this post.

[hailmaryfullofgrace55675]

“Ashkenazi Jews don’t actually have Levantine genetic ancestry” has been floating around lately among naïve and conspiracy minded anti-Zionists, a problematic claim that undermines actually correct anti-Zionist principles and defense of Palestinian rights. This claim is

absolutely irrelevant, as “blood” originating on the “soil” does not grant anyone any right to an ethnostate on any land. Using area-native ethnicity to justify discrimination and mass killing is bad when it’s Yamato Japanese discriminating against Korean, Mainland Chinese, and Taiwanese minorities in Japan and it’s bad when it’s Celtic-Germanic descent Brits oppressing Celtic-Germanic descent Irish who they’re genetically undifferentiatable from. It was bad when it was Hutus killing Tutsis and it was bad when it was the Khmer Rouge killing Chinese and Vietnamese Cambodians. The actions of the Israeli state in immiserating and slaughtering non-Jewish Palestinians would be equally harmful and wrong if the diaspora had never happened and every Israeli could trace their resident lineage in an unbroken line back to the time of the Second Temple, because it is bad to destroy people’s homes, burn their crops, imprison them, and kill them.

incorrect, at least according to current scientific consensus. Most genetic studies seem to indicate that Ashkenazim are of majority European descent and also have ancestry in the Levant, that is: the Ashkenazi population had some Levantine founders and there’s been significant amounts of intermarriage over the hundreds and hundreds of years of the diaspora into Southern Europe and from there across Central and Eastern Europe.

irrelevant again because even if, through a combination of conversions, adoptions, intermarriage, and adulterous and out of wedlock pairings between Jews and local gentiles, the diasporic European Jewish population had become completely genetically indistinguishable from local gentiles, those Jews would still have been the children of Israel. They still would have learned to read the Torah and celebrate its festivals. They still would have learned, from their families and communities in an unbroken line, to pray “Sh’ma Yisrael, Adonai eloheinu, Adonai echad” (Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is one) as the rabbinic sages of Roman Judea observed in the Talmud that they were commanded to do. They still would have spoken languages with Hebrew and Aramaic elements, and they still would have written them with letters recognizable in the Dead Sea Scrolls. They still would have had the same interests, affirmed daily and yearly, in the land that their people left so many hundreds of years ago.

One formulation of the claim is “Israel bans direct to consumer genetic testing because it shows that (Ashkenazi) Jews don’t have Middle Eastern ancestry”. The Israeli government does ban DTC genetic testing as part of a genetic information privacy and nondiscrimination law passed in 2000, before companies like 23andMe existed. DNA testing for ancestry can be interpreted and presented many ways, and the ancestry breakdowns given by DTC GT companies just do not correspond to the question “where, how, and through what migrations did this population originate?”.

Once again, Zionism is not bad because people residing in places their ancestors are not from is bad. That is fine. Zionism is bad because from its beginning the Zionist project has been one of violent dispossession and because that violent dispossession continues in and through this very present moment.

[jewish-sideblog]

very interesting to me you classify israel as non western. to me as someone from the global south it slots under western

Shalom! Thank you for giving me an excuse to flex my sociology degree! (Also, sorry you accidentally gave me an excuse to flex my sociology degree.) The "Western World", like any social concept, is a term that's mostly bullshit and subjective. But it does have some important factors that allow us to determine what counts, and what doesn't. Usually, when people think about the West, they think about globalization and industrialization-- Israel has that in spades, and I imagine that's what you're referring to when you consider it to be Western. But that's just the economic element. There's also a crucial cultural element. Otherwise, Singapore would be Western, despite being squarely an Eastern nation by any other metric.

The foundation of Western society is rooted in both Greco-Roman and Christian philosophy. Those two forces have shaped how Western nations think and act, and are responsible for modern Western conceptions of race, family, nationhood, morality, and philosophy. I won't say that none of those concepts were picked up by Ashkenazic or Sephardic Jews living in the European diaspora over the years. However, the basis of Jewish culture, identity, and ideology predates modern Western civilization by hundreds of years. We existed before any modern ideas of nationalism, before the concepts of racial identity and ethnicity, and before the separation of religion and culture. And Israel is made up of the world's Jews. Mizrahi Jews, who spent their diaspora in the Arab World (distinctly non-Western!) account for an equal or slightly greater percentage of the Israeli population than Ashki Jews.

I've personally never seen an academic source refer to Israel as Western, and I've never seen a map of the Western World that highlights Israel in the same colour as America, Canada and Western Europe. If you have, though, Anon, I'd love to see it and learn their reasoning! Hope you're having a wonderful day.

[gynii]

A survey about interests in soviet aesthetics

I've been pretty curious about how personal proximity to soviet union/era affects whether or not you like these aesthetics/media, based on me and some of my diaspora friends having particular interests in these.

quick disclaimer, i do not fuck with tankies. i wont tolerate any discussion about how the soviet union or modern russian government was/are "actually quite good" this is not the space for that, i will delete/block any comments, asks, other interactions that try to pull that shit here

how i'm defining shit:

i'm using post-soviet states as a catch-all for actual post-soviet states and satellite/eastern bloc states.

"i am from a post-soviet state" means specifically you were born in one and you still live in one. doesn't have to be the same one.

"i am diaspora" means either you were born in or you're 2nd maybe 3rd gen from someone from a post-soviet state, but you now live in/spent majority of your life in a non-post-soviet state.

i leave discretion to individuals to determine how distant they may be to still be considered diaspora, but i would prefer that a parent or grandparent left while soviet union was active, or after it dissolved, and you've like actually met them and stuff.

soviet aesthetics does not include any eastern european thing ever. liking polish folk art, or pre-soviet russian literature, do not count.

art and media include literature, fine art, film, comics, music, shows, video games, fashion, graphic design, your own ocs, and any other medium you can think of

also feel free to reblog/comment with any nuances in your situation/opinion