#dynamics: salem & hazel.

[greencruz]

♡ + glasses (salem & hazel)

SEND ME ♡ + A WORD, AND I’LL WRITE A HEADCANON : ACCEPTING !

seja lá o que fosse aquele lugar (hazel já havia explicado, mas sua cabeça era cética demais para processar aquele tipo de coisa) tudo nele delimitava um território estranho, apesar de curiosamente instigante, onde as coisas lhe davam todo o tipo de arrepio embora uma parte sua também estivesse contendo a empolgação com algo fora da curva do dia a dia atarefado. e agora que havia deixado para trás a crise existencial das primeiras horas, até estava um pouco mais estável do que antes. — então você é tipo a lucy pevensie? — parou por um momento, mas esboçou uma careta, desaprovando a própria constatação. — na verdade, tipo a susan pevensie, né, que é a gostosa. mas enfim, o ponto é: você veio parar na nárnia maligna quando era mais nova e só, tipo, gostou? — tentava juntar as peças do quebra-cabeça em que havia caído do nada. as vezes era difícil acreditar que não era um sonho, mas já havia se beliscado o suficiente para saber que suas noções de "realidade" precisavam ser atualizadas.

no fim do papo, acabou soltando uma risada, desacreditado, mas ainda assim, com pensamentos divertidos. — é por isso que você é esquisita assim, né, alice no país das maravilhas? — não era exatamente uma provocação, na verdade, fazia sentido que de todas as pessoas hazel fosse a criança interdimensional dos filmes de ficção científica ou fantasia: ela gostava de coisas assustadoras, ligadas ao seu passado incomum de protagonista. além disso ela era bonita o suficiente para ser uma. mas aí residia um problemão: se pensasse assim, isso significava que apesar de ser igualmente bonitão ele era só um interesse romântico irrelevante. meu deus. um calafrio percorreu seu corpo com o pensamento. — você tem algum namorado por aqui? — perguntou, num impulso. se ela tivesse um namorado, aí o fulano quem seria o interesse romântico irrelevante no lugar dele, não é? mas aí, ele tinha outro problema. isso queria dizer que não havia nada de romântico entre salem e hazel a não ser que houvesse um triângulo. mas se houvesse um triângulo, ele não era sombrio o bastante para vencer. ok. pelo grandioso sacrifício de ser o único par dela, seria a peça descartável da história.

mais uma careta. ele estava ficando doido, não estava? já havia perdido a conta de quantas divagações havia tido em tão curto período de tempo. — o ar aqui dá uma brisa, né? — comentou, enquanto sentia a visão ficar embaçada. ah, que ótimo. — porra, que neblina é essa? eu não tô enxergando nada. — reclamou alto, enquanto tirava os óculos para tentar limpá-los na barra da camisa. como um clássico usuário de óculos (gostava de se nomear assim), salem utilizava sua miopia para mais do que apenas sofrer com os efeitos da cegueira crescente; escapar de pessoas insuportáveis, conversas desnecessárias e negar a realidade eram os usos mais comuns. tá. mais ou menos isso... por ser extremamente temperamental e potencialmente encrenqueiro, não poderia dizer que tinha o ímpeto de fugir de confusão sempre, porém, o senso de perigo falava bem mais alto do que a necessidade de entrar em discussões só porque estava entediado.

e naquele momento o seu senso de perigo estava muito, muito ligado.

não sabia o que havia visto, mas a sombra gigante e ameaçadora na neblina, caso não fosse um prédio ou uma placa, já foi motivo o suficiente para agarrar as duas coisas mais preciosas que tinha ali: seus óculos, que havia perdido a capacidade automática de enfiar na cara, e a mão de hazel, que começou a puxar para a direção contrária. — por favor dê risada da minha cara e diga que eu tô te puxando porque vi uma estátua atrás de uma neblina normal. você disse que tem bicho aqui. — falou, com a voz mais alta e desesperada. apesar de estar fugindo no lugar de enfrentar algo, havia coragem no ato simplesmente porque em momento algum pensou em voltar a enxergar, instintivamente escapando dos obstáculos das ruas como se estivesse em um teste de direção, e sem largar hazel por nenhum instante. é, apesar de não estar mais em choque, precisava cobrar à ela uma aula sobre o mundo invertido. afinal, pelo que havia entendido, ficariam ali por tempo indeterminado.

[greencruz]

@farewellnevrland

[strqyr]

since cinder's backstory was originally intended to be in V5 and in V4 there was quite a bit of focus on the dynamic between cinder and salem, and considering how they drew parallels between cinder's interactions with salem and the madame in V8, i feel like that was also the plan with what they'd done during the mistral arc but then they sorta. redid it? the set-up, i mean, for the atlas arc since maybe the V4 stuff with salem and even watts / tyrian / sorta hazel wasn't as relevant anymore for what they had planned?

just thinking about the truth, specifically the "shut your mouth and do your chores", how cinder had lost her voice after beacon, which the others saw as a failure on her part (she didn't do her "chores"), the training, the short temper salem has with her when it's just the two of them (and emerald and mercury in the background), the way she gets her voice back and immediately tells watts to "shut up", his sarcastic reply back, and it's like—

everything is kinda clicking to place, ya know? what was supposed to be there originally but couldn't be done for one reason or another.

[spectralpixelsredone]

Analysis of Heroes' Dysfunction and Salem's Strength in RWBY

In RWBY, the heroes' frequent dysfunction and susceptibility to manipulation contrast sharply with the formidable power of Salem’s Inner Circle. While the protagonists strive to protect Remnant, their internal conflicts and vulnerabilities often allow Salem’s subordinates to exploit their weaknesses, causing significant trouble. Additionally, characters like Hazel Rainart and Tyrian Callows demonstrate overwhelming combat prowess, capable of decimating large groups of Huntsmen. This analysis explores the heroes’ dysfunction, their manipulation by Salem’s forces, and the immense strength of Salem’s key operatives, supported by canonical details from the series.

The Heroes’ Dysfunction and Manipulation

The heroes of RWBY, including Team RWBY (Ruby Rose, Weiss Schnee, Blake Belladonna, Yang Xiao Long), Team JNPR, and allies like Qrow Branwen and Oscar Pine, are plagued by internal strife and emotional vulnerabilities that Salem’s forces exploit. This dysfunction aligns with the trope of The Main Characters Do Everything, where a small group of protagonists handles disproportionate responsibilities, amplifying their flaws.

Key Examples of Dysfunction

Lack of Trust and Communication: In Volume 7, Team RWBY’s decision to withhold the truth about Salem’s immortality from General Ironwood creates tension. Ruby’s optimism clashes with Ironwood’s pragmatism, leading to a fractured alliance. This secrecy allows Arthur Watts to exploit Ironwood’s paranoia, hacking Mantle’s systems and framing Penny Polendina for a massacre, as seen in “As Above, So Below.” The heroes’ failure to communicate exacerbates Ironwood’s descent into authoritarianism, culminating in his betrayal in Volume 8.

Emotional Vulnerabilities: Ruby’s idealism and leadership burden make her a prime target for manipulation. In Volume 9, Neopolitan exploits Ruby’s guilt over her perceived failures, psychologically torturing her in the Ever After until Ruby nearly ascends (a form of suicide). Similarly, Yang’s impulsiveness in Volume 2’s “No Brakes” allows Neo to outmaneuver her, showcasing how personal flaws are weaponized.

Interpersonal Conflicts: Team RWBY’s dynamics are strained by differing priorities. Blake’s focus on the Faunus cause in Volumes 4–5 alienates her from Yang, who feels abandoned after losing her arm. These rifts weaken their cohesion, enabling Cinder Fall to sow discord during the Battle of Haven in Volume 5, where the heroes are outmaneuvered due to poor coordination.

Overreliance on Key Figures: The heroes depend heavily on figures like Ozpin and Qrow, whose own flaws amplify dysfunction. Ozpin’s secrecy about Salem’s true goals, revealed in Volume 6’s “Lost Fable,” shatters the team’s trust, causing a temporary split. Qrow’s alcoholism and despair in Volume 6 further destabilize the group, making them vulnerable to Tyrian Callows’ psychological taunts.

Exploitation by Salem’s Forces

Salem’s Inner Circle excels at exploiting these weaknesses, embodying the Manipulative Bastard trope. Canonical examples include:

Watts’ Technological Manipulation: In Volume 7, Watts hacks Mantle’s security to disable heating grids, inciting riots and attracting Grimm. His rigging of the council election for Jacques Schnee grants him access to Atlas’ network, locking out Ironwood’s forces. This manipulation, detailed in “Cordially Invited,” capitalizes on Ironwood’s stress and the heroes’ failure to anticipate cyber threats.

Cinder’s Psychological Warfare: Cinder preys on emotional vulnerabilities, such as Emerald’s loyalty and Neo’s desire for revenge. In Volume 8’s “Ultimatum,” she manipulates Watts into aiding her Relic heist, only to betray him by trapping him in a burning command center. Her ability to exploit trust mirrors her earlier manipulation of Adam Taurus in Volume 3.

Neo’s Illusions: Neo’s Semblance, which evolves in Volume 9 to create tangible clones, allows her to deceive and demoralize. In “The Final Word,” she disguises herself as Nora to steal the Relic of Knowledge, exploiting Ren’s hesitation. Her psychological assault on Ruby in the Ever After highlights her ability to weaponize the heroes’ guilt.

Tyrian’s Intimidation: Tyrian’s sadistic glee and combat prowess make him a psychological threat. In Volume 4’s “Punished,” he taunts Qrow and Ruby, exploiting Qrow’s protective instincts to lure him into a trap. His threats in Volume 6 ensure Emerald and Mercury’s compliance, reinforcing the Resignations Not Accepted trope.

This manipulation underscores the heroes’ dysfunction, as their internal conflicts prevent unified resistance against Salem’s calculated strategies.

Salem’s Powerful Operatives

Salem’s Inner Circle, though small, boasts some of Remnant’s most formidable fighters, aligning with the One-Man Army trope. Hazel and Tyrian, in particular, demonstrate the ability to overwhelm large groups of Huntsmen, reinforcing Salem’s strength.

Hazel Rainart’s Combat Prowess

Hazel, with his Numbing Agent Semblance and rapid Aura regeneration, is a Juggernaut capable of enduring immense punishment. Canonical feats include:

Battle of Haven (Volume 5): In “Vault of the Spring Maiden,” Hazel single-handedly battles Team JNPR, Qrow, and Oscar. Despite being impaled by Weiss’ Queen Lancer and pummeled by Nora’s Semblance-enhanced strikes, he continues fighting. Nora notes his Aura recharges faster than any she’s seen, and Qrow remarks on his sheer willpower. Hazel’s ability to shrug off blows and inject Dust crystals for elemental attacks makes him a one-man wrecking crew.

Slaughter of Huntsmen: Hazel’s backstory, revealed in RWBY: Amity Arena, implies he decimated Huntsmen during his vendetta against Ozpin. His rage-fueled strength and pain immunity allow him to overpower trained fighters, contributing to the destruction of Huntsmen academies.

Sacrifice Against Salem (Volume 8): In “Witch,” Hazel turns on Salem, using his Dust-enhanced strength to hold her at bay long enough for Oscar, Emerald, and Yang’s team to escape. His ability to challenge an immortal witch underscores his extraordinary power.

Hazel’s Bruiser with a Soft Center nature contrasts his combat dominance, but his hatred for Ozpin drives his lethal efficiency against Huntsmen.

Tyrian Callows’ Lethal Efficiency

Tyrian, a scorpion Faunus and serial killer, is a Lightning Bruiser whose speed, strength, and sadism make him a terror. Key examples include:

Massacre in Volume 7: In “As Above, So Below,” Tyrian slaughters Robyn Hill’s supporters at a rally, framing Penny for the attack. His speed and precision allow him to kill multiple targets undetected, showcasing his ability to decimate groups of trained fighters. Watts praises his “fine work,” highlighting Tyrian’s effectiveness.

Battle Against Qrow (Volume 4): In “Punished,” Tyrian nearly kills Qrow in a one-on-one fight, using his scorpion tail and agility to outpace the veteran Huntsman. Only Ruby’s intervention saves Qrow, and Tyrian’s poison nearly proves fatal.

Ambush in Volume 7: Tyrian’s fieldwork in Atlas, supported by Watts’ hacking, includes assassinations that destabilize the kingdom. His ability to evade capture and eliminate targets reinforces his reputation as a one-man killing machine.

Tyrian’s unwavering loyalty to Salem, whom he worships as a goddess, and his knowledge of her world-destroying goal make him uniquely dangerous. His Villainous Friendship with Watts allows coordinated chaos, amplifying their threat.

Other Powerful Members

Cinder Fall: As a Maiden, Cinder wields immense magical power, capable of leveling battlefields. In Volume 3’s “Beginning of the End,” she orchestrates Beacon’s fall, killing Pyrrha Nikos and Ozpin. Her ability to manipulate and betray, as seen with Watts in Volume 8, complements her combat strength.

Arthur Watts: While not a physical powerhouse, Watts’ hacking skills cripple entire kingdoms. In Volume 7, he turns Amity Colosseum into a weapon against Ironwood, showcasing his Combat Pragmatist approach. His Ring of Power enhances his technological dominance.

Neopolitan: Neo’s evolved Semblance in Volume 9 creates tangible Jabberwalker clones, forcing Team RWBY to flee. Her Waif-Fu and illusions make her a versatile threat, capable of outmaneuvering multiple opponents.

These operatives’ combined strength ensures Salem’s small court punches far above its weight, often overwhelming the heroes’ larger but disorganized forces.

Canonical Context and Implications

Salem’s strength lies not only in her operatives’ power but also in her immortal nature and strategic acumen. Revealed in Volume 6’s “Lost Fable,” Salem’s Complete Immortality makes her an unstoppable force, as Hazel confirms after failing to kill her repeatedly. Her goal to destroy Remnant, rather than conquer it, shocks defectors like Emerald and Hazel, aligning with the Not What I Signed On For trope. This revelation in Volume 8’s “War” drives Hazel’s Heel-Face Turn, highlighting the moral divide between Salem’s loyalists (Tyrian, Cinder) and those with redeemable qualities.

The heroes’ dysfunction is compounded by external pressures:

Grimm Threat: Salem’s control over the Grimm, as seen in Volume 8’s invasion of Atlas, stretches the heroes’ resources thin. The Legion of Doom trope manifests as her forces coordinate with Grimm to overwhelm Atlas’ defenses.

Relic Hunt: The pursuit of the Relics (Knowledge, Creation, Choice, Destruction) diverts the heroes’ focus, allowing Salem’s operatives to strike strategically. Cinder’s theft of the Relics in Volume 8’s “The Final Word” is a direct result of the heroes’ scattered efforts.

Ozpin’s Legacy: Ozpin’s secrecy and past failures, detailed in Volume 6, erode the heroes’ morale. His reincarnation into Oscar adds tension, as Hazel’s vendetta in Volume 8 nearly kills the boy.

Addressing Counterpoints

While the heroes are dysfunctional, they are not entirely ineffective. Their resilience and growth counterbalance their flaws:

Ruby’s leadership evolves in Volume 9, overcoming Neo’s manipulation to reaffirm her identity.

Team RWBY’s reconciliation in Volumes 6–7 strengthens their bond, enabling them to defeat Adam Taurus and survive Atlas’ fall.

Allies like Penny and Maria Calavera provide critical support, countering Salem’s forces in key moments.

However, Salem’s operatives consistently exploit the heroes’ weaknesses, and their combat prowess—especially Hazel and Tyrian’s ability to slaughter Huntsmen—tilts the balance in her favor. The Dwindling Party trope ensures her court remains elite, as weaker or disloyal members (Watts, Hazel, Neo) are eliminated, leaving only the most dangerous.

Conclusion

The heroes of RWBY are deeply dysfunctional, plagued by trust issues, emotional vulnerabilities, and poor coordination, which Salem’s Inner Circle exploits with ruthless precision. Characters like Watts, Cinder, and Neo manipulate the heroes’ flaws, while Hazel and Tyrian’s overwhelming combat strength allows them to decimate Huntsmen with ease. Salem’s small but powerful court, bolstered by her immortality and strategic use of proxies, poses a formidable threat that capitalizes on the heroes’ disarray. This dynamic, rooted in canonical events like the fall of Beacon and Atlas, underscores RWBY’s narrative tension, where the heroes’ potential for growth is constantly tested against Salem’s unrelenting might.

[wolfertinger]

the moment that relationship crumbles, wis is going to go full scorched earth on salem. its practically inevitable. shes been in too deep for too long, but the second shes out, shes going to reframe everything to make herself the victim and salem the villain. the whole “he cant fetishize trans women because hes dating one” excuse is going to get flipped into “he was always a chaser, i just didnt see it before” in record time. you just know shes sitting on a pile of dirt shes been conveniently ignoring, ready to drop it the second it benefits her.

its like watching a slow-motion train wreck. their entire dynamic is built on this shaky foundation of mutual ego-stroking and delusion, so its only a matter of time before it collapses. and when it does, wis is going to go full DARVO, rewriting history so that she was the innocent, manipulated party all along. shell probably dig up every old post, every message, anything she can use to paint herself as the victim. while conveniently omitting all the ways she enabled him for years.

and salem? hes going to have another public meltdown, because hes not built to handle the fallout of his own actions. its just going to be a mess of both of them scrambling to control the narrative while everyone else watches and goes, yeah, we saw this coming a mile away.

i genuinely think, if a breakup occurs, which i do not doubt, will. salem will be the one, better off from it, not wis. which is why, i especially do not understand, wis throwing herself on the sword for salem, when he has already shown he will never do the same for her. he could not even pretend to back her up, with mari, claiming "she went too far", and that even he, felt uncomfortable around "a potential rapist".

out of all, of salems past partners. not including sawyer, for a moment. the vast majority have been transfem. hazel, selma, nell, torin, and now, wis.

and every time. the second his transfem gf, was a little "too" problematic. salem dropped them, like a rock, and instantly self victimized. and not only that. but shit talked them publicly, intentionally lying, to make them seem worse than him.

salem IS, the evil transfem chaser, that mistreats his vulnerable transfem gfs, that wis accused sawyer of being.

dropping a trans girl gf, and victimizing and lying to seem better:

dropping another trans girl gf, and victimizing and lying to seem better:

dropping ANOTHER trans girl gf, and victimizing and lying to seem better:

wis, is just one in a long line of transfem attack dog gfs. salem knows this. and wis, a trans woman, letting salem tokenize her identity, when you KNOW you have a long history of fetishizing and mistreating transfems. is just ironic. she will learn, one way, or another.

[butchgeorgefayne]

I think it is kind of a shame we never get to see Mercury interact with Watts and Hazel who both guys who channel very different aspects of Marcus. Watts being a man who has no respect autonomy of sentient life and Hazel being the physically abusive father (I have a lot to say about Hazel and I kind of think the fan base latches on "adoptive dad of the murder kids" when that mans relationship to those two feels like it should have had some unhealthy dynamics to explore)

trueee. i have a slightly similar sentiment around emerald and salem; feels like the mommy issues there were underutilized. also! i dont think the “dad hazel” hc is very interesting, i like your take on it much more

[littlemisssquiggles]

So miles did another cameo video about a week ago someone asked him what it would have been like if Oscar had gone to the ever after and Miles confirmed that if Oscar had been there with Ruby she wouldn't have gone through the conflict and trauma she was going through and volume nine if he had been there cuz Oscar would have been the one to notice it instantly unlike the others who didn't notice it till after she snapped at them

You can even see hints of it in the episode were they meet John again and they're at his house where Ruby sitting at the table and across from Ruby is an empty chair while Ruby sits there and look at Yang and Blake happily celebrating their new relationship Ruby sits there if so she's missing someone and that someone is Oscar I think

Hello anon-chan! Pardon the late answer to your inbox.

Do you mind linking me to this specific cameo you mentioned pretty please? Because I would honestly loved to listen to it.

Funnily enough, you’re the second person to bring up the theory that the empty seat across from Ruby at Jaune’s home in the Ever After during the scene before Jaune returns Crescent Rose to Ruby could’ve easily been filled by Oscar.

It makes perfect sense that Oscar would’ve been the one to notice Ruby’s depression if he were there since he has been shown to be weary of that in previous seasons such as the infamous dojo scene. Oscar noticing Ruby’s change in demenour is what initially prompted him to push her to admit her true feelings about everything that happened during the Fall of Beacon.

Not to mention that when Ruby was shown to be overwhelmed at the Cotta-Arc during the moment when Jaune exploded after JNR learned the truth about Oz and Salem, Oscar was the one to take notice of this and even did his best to help quell the situation.

Oscar has always been observant of Ruby’s feelings especially when she is at her lowest. It’s one of the reasons why I love their dynamic so much. Ruby has always been protective of Oscar since the moment he joined the team, looking out for him in her own way just as much as he looked out for her.

Oscar should’ve been there for Ruby in the Ever After just as how Ruby should’ve been the one to lead the charge to save him from Monstra instead of Jaune back in V8.

I absolutely hated the fact that Ruby was omitted from Oscar’s side of the story back then and this is one of the reasons why I didn’t enjoy that season.

The CRWBY showrunners spent the last few seasons continuously building up this shared sense of caring and protectiveness as the basis of the Rosegarden friendship and yet…there was no payoff?

They showed prior moments of Ruby protecting Oscar yet…she was completely absent during his most dire time of need---being a prisoner of Salem and brutally tortured by her and Hazel for hours. Ruby was not allowed to protect Oscar from that.

They showed prior moments of Oscar being a voice of wisdom to encourage Ruby to open up and be honest with herself and those around her yet…he was absent during her darkest emotional moment yet---her literal breaking point where she committed the Ever After equivalent of suicide.

You see the pattern?

Neither Ruby nor Oscar were present during each other’s worse moments.

They weren’t allowed to because the writers knew, canonically, these two would be each other’s true savior---their beacon in the darkness to get more metaphorical.

Because they needed the story to go a different way to get the ending that we actually got in V8 and V9, that’s how it had to go.

If Oscar has gone to the Ever After then Ruby would’ve never had her whole arc which…needed to happen. Although, some might argue that the whole point of Ruby’s journey in the Ever After was ultimately made pointless by her going from “no longer wanting to be Ruby Rose anymore” to “being Ruby Rose just as I am is enough. I’m Ruby-nough! I don’t need to change at all. I’m perfect just the way I am even with the flaws that I still possess that led me down this path in the first place”.

Sarcasm aside, I don’t dislike the fact that Ruby chose to be herself in the end. Being yourself and having yourself be enough is a good message. I just wished the showrunners had allowed this concept to cook more. While I’m aware they were pressed for time given the fact that no V10 was greenlit, nevertheless, I would’ve rather a twist where only Weiss, Blake, Yang and Jaune were able to return home while Ruby remained in the Ever After to complete her transformation.

We spent nearly an entire season building up to Ruby’s breakdown. It took 8 out of 10 episodes to have Ruby fall apart only to have her have her big revelation in the last episode. That makes the whole thing seem almost flat so I don't blame some fans for being disappointed with the conclusion to Ruby's Ever After story being concluded that way.

I dunno about you anon-chan but this just makes me disappointed that Oscar wasn’t present for the Ever After Arc because all cues prior to V9 hinted that he could’ve easily been added to this season and worked.

Oscar was the one who first introduced the audience to the fairytale of the Girl Who Fell Through the World.

Not to mention the whole theme of the Ever After being about embracing change---Oscar SHOULD’VE gone to the Ever After. Part of Oscar’s journey is about him coming to terms with the Merge with him either losing himself completely or becoming a new person entirely.

Seeing Oscar going through his own arc while trying to help Ruby with hers could've been great to see. But alas, that's not what we got.

I will give the showrunners this though---if Oscar had gone to the Ever After then we probably may not have gotten the clue that Ruby cares deeply for him.

It is very evident after V9 that Oscar's life is precious to Ruby. Shipping and romantic implications asides, you can't deny the fact that Oscar's wellbeing is important to Ruby.

Much like characters such as Penny and Pyrrha, Oscar is someone who Ruby doesn't want to lose.

Better yet, he is someone precious to Ruby that she doesn't wish to lose as a result of her failure.

Take a look at the deaths of Pyrhha and Penny. What do those deaths have in common?

Ruby failing to stop it from happening in the first place.

Ruby was present for Penny's first death but arrived too late to stop it from happening.

Ruby was present for Pyrhha's death but arrived too late to stop it from happening.

Ruby was present again for Penny's final death but got tossed into the Ever After before she could do anything to help stop it from happening.

Once again, Penny died and Ruby failed to stop it from happening. This is why the words of her illusion cut Ruby deeply during the Mad Tea Party fight.

"...Just like you were too late to save me at the Vytal Festival. I died in Atlas too, didn't I? Could you imagine what that's like? To be completely and utterly failed time and again by someone who meant the world to you..."

Similar to Penny, Ruby is someone who Oscar has been shown to care deeply for and Ruby, in turn, cares a lot for him. The evidence of that has been shown sprinkled throughout the seasons. There is no denying that these two smaller, more honest souls care very much for each other.

While there has yet to be any payoff to the development in their relationship as yet, one thing's for certain is that Oscar is a person of importance to Ruby.

He is someone she doesn't want to lose. He is someone she doesn't want to fail.

He is someone she can't stand to watch die because of her own inability to protect him.

Not again after she's failed others like him in the past.

Overall, I guess the point I'm trying to make here is, while it would've been great to see Oscar in the Ever After with Ruby (since he definitely would've prevented her breakdown), at the same time, the showrunners did still found a way to use his presence as part of the narrative to signify something about his connection to Ruby.

Oscar needed to be absent in order to Ruby to have her arc yet ironically, he was the reason for Ruby's breakdown in the first place. While Little's death was the final straw that drove Ruby over the edge, before that moment, it was actually the imagery of Oscar's death caused by HER HANDS that drove Ruby to her final breaking point.

While it would've been nice to see Oscar there with Ruby, in a way, he was still there with her---being used by Neo to indicate to the audience that Oscar is a person of dear importance to Ruby.

Moving forward, I expect the events of V9 to have some kind of impact on Ruby's overall relationship with Oscar. I want to believe the events of the Ever After would make Ruby more overprotective of Oscar; possibly hinting at much deeper feelings. That's how I see it.

~LMS (2023)

[bestworstcase]

you refer to summer as proto-cinder - do you have thoughts then for how actual cinder coming into the picture affected that dynamic? like was summer Salem’s protege first, do you think? did cinder replace her + she got sent away or did she get promoted when cinder arrived? mostly just asking for your speculation since I don’t think we have many canon answers but I love reading your rwby thoughts

loosely my thinking is that: 

1 - salem at the time was not participating in ozpin’s forever war in any meaningful sense. that his hush-hush last minute urgent missions routinely turned out to be inconsequential false alarms because he was jumping at every shadow while salem mostly ignored him. (and: i think she knew he’d hidden the relics in the schools, but didn’t yet know the particulars.)

2 - raven did not go back to banditry when she broke things off with tai, or if she did it was as a cover for her work as a spy; hence her continued working relationship with summer years later.

3 - gretchen rainart was the spring maiden. ozpin picked her out of beacon’s ranks the same way he did pyrrha, then pulled her out of the normal curriculum and sent her to mistral to be trained, in secret, by raven. the public story was that she “tragically lost her life in a training mission,” and hazel knew something didn’t add up.

4 - discomfort with that situation, combined with raven and summer both thinking ahead 10-12 years to when their daughters would be gretchen’s age, is what got the wheels turning on the secret rogue mission to take salem down.

5 - the plan was for summer to go in alone, banking on silver eyes, with raven and gretchen at a safe distance but ready to intervene if summer got into trouble. (think: gretchen blasting magic through a portal positioned to hit salem, raven ducking through and yanking summer out before salem could recover. with kindred link’s sensory aspect and a maiden’s firepower, that’s about the best escape plan summer could have had.)

6 - ozpin does his level best to keep his people as far away from salem as possible. salem knows this. one of ozpin’s guardians tracking her down with heroic declarations at the ready would interest her, and she’d instantly zero in on summer having gone rogue. that’s an opportunity: it indicates a fracture in her faith in ozpin. so salem didn’t try to smush summer like a bug; she started talking.

7 - unlike her daughters, who really have been fighting a war, summer’s experience up to that point had been a lot of secrecy, paranoia, and false alarms. if she said “i’ll stop you” and salem answered “i’m not doing anything to stop”—it would not have taken a lot of convincing to believe that, because it tracks.

8 - once the first hurdle of believing that salem isn’t waging existential war against humanity is cleared, it’s really, really easy to flip the narrative against ozpin. all salem has to do is tell summer about the mandate while stressing that the gods cannot be appeased, that they destroyed the world once before and will do it again if ozpin calls them back. which is true!

9 - salem, for whatever reason, wants the relics. if summer believes her about the mandate, getting her on board with stealing the relics is as easy as “ozpin is planning to bring them together soon; we have to get them away from him” or “i can destroy them” or “we can use them to stop him forever.” if summer doesn’t believe it… well, ozpin must trust her a great deal, to have told her of salem’s existence. surely she knows where and how he’s hidden the relics? go find the lamp. use it to find the truth for yourself; then make your choice.

10 - isn’t it serendipitous, then, that summer has the living breathing key to the vault of knowledge on her side?

check and mate. 

whether summer buys salem’s story or not, the stakes are so high that she can’t afford not to seek confirmation—and with raven and gretchen already involved, it would be so easy to be in and out of that vault with no one the wiser, and they can always seal it away again if it turns out salem lied. one way or another, summer has to open that vault.

what happens next?

i think there are two plausible ways this might have shaken out, depending on how much trust raven had in ozpin and how willing summer was to take salem at her word. 

if raven trusted ozpin and summer believed salem, then things probably got heated fast when summer returned unscathed from meeting salem and started talking about ozpin being the real danger and needing gretchen to open the vault; they might have come to blows then, and with gretchen caught in between.

if summer believed and raven was skeptical, they probably did get the vault open—but they wouldn’t have been able to use the lamp. none of them knew jinn’s name. so what then? do they seal the lamp, or trust salem’s word and bring it to her? how does gretchen feel about those options? how intense is summer about getting at least one relic away from oz?

either way… the only thing we really know about the last spring maiden is that she struggled with the magic; it was too much for her, she was scared, the training never stuck, she wasn’t cut out for it. and she was a student—probably not much older than pyrrha. we’ve seen how poorly a young, not-fully-trained maiden fared against a couple of kids and cinder. summer and raven were among the best of the best. so if things got heated enough to come to blows…

i doubt very much that summer planned or intended to kill gretchen; she’s the proto-cinder in the sense that i think salem saw an opportunity to snag a relic and maybe a valuable double agent and went for it. why look a gift horse in the mouth?—but it was all sort of ad hoc. 

but then you have a girl with power she can’t master because she’s been isolated and she just wants to go home, and the old unspoken tension between the only two adults who care enough to try to make that happen very suddenly erupting when one of them flips her loyalties out of the blue. that is a volatile situation. all the more so if it’s kept simmering until the relic is out of the vault and they’re realizing that they don’t know how to use it and they’re all going to have to choose without knowingwho told the truth.

what happens to summer rose if things get out of control and she lands the fatal blow? does she run? does she move to help before raven lashes out and forces her to run? how far does she get before it hits her that she cannot go back home?—that the choices she made, the blood she spilled tonight have tied her irrevocably to salem whether she likes it or not?

and then there’s raven, left behind to give gretchen the bitter mercy of a quick and painless death. she becomes spring—maybe seals the lamp away again, if it got that far—and then has to consider her options. tell the truth and face whatever consequences there might be for letting this happen, or… ash the body, and feign surprise come morning? leave on the pretense of searching for her missing protege, then drop out of contact and stay as far the fuck away from this mess as possible? let the guilt and the secrets fester unchecked for twelve years, always looking over her shoulder because summer has to know, she must, who gretchen gave the magic to. does salem know? would summer tell her? can raven afford to trust that she won’t?

salem specifically sought out hazel. why? how did she even know about him, if not because summer told her? (<- a decade and change later when salem is actively prosecuting a war, she doesn’t have the slightest idea who neopolitan is—after neo was instrumental in the fall of beacon! salem is not exactly obsessively monitoring what goes on in vale!) and hazel says that gretchen’s death taught him never to trust ozpin.

if “training mission gone wrong” was a cover story for pushing gretchen into hiding after she became the spring maiden, and summer knew that, and summer tried to stop it only for that attempt to go so catastrophically wrong that gretchen died because of her, and the whole time hazel was still desperately trying to get answers… and one of the very few things we know about who summer is as a person is that she Does Not Like To Lie… wouldn’t she feel that hazel deserved to know what really happened? 

and if this is how salem learned that the relics are in vaults only the maidens can open—to say nothing of how the maidens themselves are treated!—then. well, ‘divide’ and ‘sacrifice’ are both seethinglydisdainful about the futility of ozpin’s sacrifices and his cause. it isn’t a stretch to think this might have been what incited salem to actually go to war for the relics. and in that case it seems only natural for her to recruit hazel, too, because salem literally is motivated by gretchen’s death. and she can sidestep the part where summer is the one who killed gretchen by hammering ozpin’s conspiratorial lies.

and then—because summer is wholly unsuitable as a skeleton-key maiden vessel by dint of having moral reservations about murdering people and no particular desire for power—salem needs to find herself a protege. and maybe pick up another agent or two while she’s at it.

cinder is only a few years older than yang. she was probably around ten or eleven when summer met salem and the dominoes began to fall; she didn’t escape the madame until her mid-teens, and we don’t know how much time passed in between then and salem finding her. so quite a lot—half or more—of the interim between summer joining her and the beginning of V1, salem probably spent just looking for a viable candidate. and then training her while laying out the plan to off ozpin, hit the academies, and seize the relics before ozma even knew what hit him. so summer, i think, would have had a fairly lengthy period of time to reconcile herself to beginning the war she thought she was going to end, as a necessary step towards ending the wider conflict and the harm done by ozpin’s one-sided imaginary war. her life is a mess. she probably hates… everything about what her side is doing but if she really was involved directly in gretchen’s death then she’s kind of stuck with salem until/unless the truth comes out, and even aside from that there is the problem of the divine ultimatum to worry about; after more than a decade i would imagine that summer has firmly been convinced that salem isn’t gunning for annihilation, because if it came down to a choice between confessing to murder or helping bring about the end of the world, i do think summer would pick the former.

[zerm2v0hg]

Finally got around to watching Unicorn of War's RWBY Volume 8 two-part video rewrite a few days ago, and I strongly recommend it for anyone who wants a Better Version of V8, or even for anyone who didn't hate V8 but just wants a juicy RWBY story. (And be sure to give the Pt 1 vid above and the Pt 2 vid on YT a Like on YT to support the maker.)

Highlights include but are not limited to: multiple planned action sequences aplenty, focus on the characters we want focus on, the heroes actually being complex people and heroes trying their best instead of being Holier Than Thou narcissistic Millstones, the RWBY/JNR-vs.-Ironwood conflict over how to save Atlas being Grey-and-Gray Morality with Ironwood keeping his marbles instead of just "RWBY yay Ironwood boo," Salem actually being terrifying and capable, Hazel being pitiable instead of being a brute who beats a kid to a pulp, the titular heroines actually facing their bad guys down themselves, Cinder getting her ass burned again, Bumbleby working to form a healthier dynamic, another side of Penny emerging, Ciel and other members of the bloated cast returning, and some other spoiler-y positives.

I'm not without some criticisms against parts of it, like how it handles the "Vacuo evacuation" plan, but all in all, this is a very juicy RWBY story which is worth checking out.

[kitkatopinions]

I think if Raven was the one who raised Yang, she'd probably train and push the latter to her utmost limit and exhaustion every day to make sure she's "strong enough to survive in this world". Yang would be a completely different, colder person from what we know. For me it'd be interesting to see the dynamic and drama between that Yang and Ruby who was raised without Yang.

I love the concept of Yang raised by Raven! In fact, I just love the concept of RWBY kid hero characters raised by villains and RWBY kid villain characters raised by 'good guys' in general.

Yang being raised by Raven is great! Blake running away from home and getting picked up by Cinder and manipulated into joining her is also great. Salem recruiting and raising up Pyrrha from an early age and setting her to compete against Cinder for the maiden powers is such a good concept for me. Toddler Ruby having run away when she and Yang got attacked by Grimm as kids and her being found and taken in by Roman and Neo is also good. Ren and Nora getting picked up and taken in by Hazel is also super fun as a concept. Weiss and Whitley getting kidnapped in their early years by Watts who is trying to experiment with the Schnee family semblance. Watts stealing Penny before she could be switched on for the first time and raising her as his own daughter. Sun being singled out by Lionheart as someone that Cinder, Emerald, and Mercury should coerce into helping them to sell the 'they're from Mistral' story. Idk, I just think it's so fun imagining the good guy kids in the position of bad guy.

And what's even more fun is imagining them not liking or being happy in the villain lifestyle and getting rescued and redeemed... Alongside other villains that I care about, because I love redemption!

[the-path-to-redemption]

What's the most overly-specific rare pair(s) that you have? Ships that make sense to you because of a specific au dynamic or something similar but would otherwise make no sense if you looked at it through the lens of canon?

*looks at my fucked up headcanons about Marcus x Adam*

I also really like Acid Rain (Neptune x Mercury) because I think Neptune would be so fascinated with Mercury's prosthetics and help him out with maintenance (there is this one fan art of them and I will combust if I see it again, it's so cute). Mercury would also talk to him about his favorite graphic novels in-depth and Neptune would listen so intently, Mercury just loves that Neptune doesn't treat him like a child or an idiot because he prefers books with pictures in them.

Another one is Hazel x Adam, or as one of my mutuals likes to call it, Smashed Pelvis. Me, I'm leaning toward Red Velvet or something else, but that's not important. I would love to see an AU of them conspiring with each other against Salem's forces in Haven, only if both of them haven't contracted brain rot (Hazel, she's literally the reason why your sister even got killed in the first place, and Cinder murdered your subordinates Adam. Come the fuck on, boys). There's also a picture of them standing together in V5 next to the picture of a hamster eating a banana, and that's good enough for me tbh.

I would say Crimsun is pretty rare, and boy is there a reason why I love them. We'd be here all day.

I also like Pyrrha x Penny. They're girlfriends your honor, and honestly, both have such interesting dynamics due to the fact that both of them were Maiden candidates. Girls who have the whole world on their shoulders because if not, what were they born for? And that's very yuri to me. They should kiss under a Forever Fall tree.

That's all I have for now. Thanks for the ask!

[strqyr]

I don't disagree with the mystery angle, but as a hypothetical (because I can't deicide which I like better), what do you think of having the mystery as is in show (ie. we know who, don't know what), then building that into who can be trusted? Like, going into mistral and atlas, yes we know who the big bads are now, but who are the pawns this time? Is that person just scared and caged because of Beacon, or because they're working for Salem? Having the audience losing trust alongside the mains

i think this was pretty much what they did with in V7. iirc the writers said the volume's theme would be "trust", which got the audience suspecting just about, well. any one of the new characters we were introduced to, and even some of the old ones; i vividly remember one of the big things after 7.2 being whether ironwood hugging qrow was genuine or if he did that to place a tiny microphone or something like that on his cape lol

and ya know, it was fun time! every new character could have been a double agent, or somehow compromised—watts is in mantle with near full control of its systems, who's to say he couldn't be listening in and scouring through video footage to find something, anything to help with their task?—so who do you trust?

of course, that lack of trust became the main issue between the Good Guys™, there were no surprises in terms of characters working for salem, but still, it worked well, and it kept people on their toes.

in contrast, they gave lionheart working for salem pretty much immediately, which is like. 50/50 for me because on one hand, building up those trust issues, not just in the characters but for the audience as well, already from the mistral arc would have been great... but there were no other characters to suspect besides lionheart, so the difference is hardly there.

but yeah, the "who is working for salem and who is not?" is absolutely an angle i've been thinking about a lot lately; mostly in a sense whether it would work or not if salem—and thus the rest of her followers—would not have been revealed when they were; that if emerald's illusion had been the first time the audience "sees" salem, where most of the information we get of her is from what other characters say about her, then the lost fable, and only then we see salem in present day during 'so that's how it is'. that way tyrian, hazel, and watts would be brand new characters with yet unknown alliances, with some revealing their standing earlier like tyrian, while for watts and hazel it would take a little bit more time.

like, taking watts as an example: he's just some guy who spends time with lionheart. maybe he passes by team rnjr at some point, has a short interaction with them, all cordial and so, because they'd be less likely to recognize him as someone who's supposed to be, ya know. dead. the main point is, everything seems normal about him; there's really no reason to suspect him as someone working for this salem everyone is talking about... and then he shows up with cinder at the branwen tribe's camp and uh-oh, who can you really trust? how deep does salem's network of followers actually go?

of course, these are choices were you win some, you lose some. it all comes down to what you want to focus on; keep salem and her followers hidden for a little bit longer, and you potentially lose the time spend building salem and cinder's dynamic—though this could be changed by simply not revealing salem's other followers while keeping the scenes with just salem and cinder around—but gain the extra layer of mystery and the build-up to "who can you actually trust?"

...rambling aside, yeah, not revealing the kingdom specific pawns immediately upfront could be a fun route to take, absolutely.

[moltensmusings]

Might as well make a little post about my rwby rewrite for fun:

Most of the plot stays the same. I enjoy rwby even if I dislike parts of it so im not planning to change the whole thing

Faunus racism is thrown out in favor of the faunus being creations by the God of light meant as an answer to the Grimm. They live in tight knit societies around the birthplaces/birthplace of the maidens though some leave to settle down elsewhere or travel the world.

Adam's motivation is to protect his found family from the Grimm that killed their loved ones. He and Blake have a sibling bond instead of a romantic one. He's part of Salem's inner circle and she gave him part of her ability to control Grimm in exchange for his loyalty. This power and proximity to Grimm has been corrupting him.

Blake is a double agent working for Adam who became more of a cult like leader over time, she slowly grows apart from him during her time at Beacon and by the time we hit the fall of beacon she turns on him. Because of this betrayal of her new friends and guilt she runs.

Sun and Blake have no romantic undertones. It's fully platonic. Team SSSN also has more interactions with RWBY and JNPR before the fall of Beacon and they're there for the battle of Haven (it's literally their school).

Jaunes crush on Weiss only lasts until the middle of volume 1 and by volume 2 much more serious feelings for Pyrrha take over that he doesn't fully realize at first. They start dating shortly after the dance but don't have their first kiss until right before she goes to fight Cinder.

Jaune was invited to the school by Ozpin who once a year chooses a random nobody to train into a hunter. There's a low survival rate but Ozpin has a weird obsession 0-hero stories. Jaune didn't want to go but his town strong armed him into it because they want the best for him. He doesn't sneak in.

Pyrrha (as I've repeated) is not only team leader but also far more full of herself and shady though she pretends to be kinder than she is. Jaunes earnest nature wins her over though originally she viewed him like a puppy or a burden.

Blake and Yang get built up from Volume 1 with Yang awkwardly flirting with her before feelings deepen and she tries to intiate more only for Blake to put up a wall.

Hazel doesn't use his semblance during most of the battle of Haven. He'd be fighting against most of the cast and not doing it because it wouldn't be a challenge for him. This allows him to be more intimidating.

Keeping with villains: Tyrion changes slightly from laughing all the time to invading people's spaces and simply smiling. I enjoy unhinged villains but he's a more campy then terrifying.

We have one additional volume before the fall of beacon to build up the cast better and strengthen dynamics. We need more teachers in Beacon and I want to see RWBY and JNPR interact more before the fall.

I'll add to this post as I think of ideas but this should help everyone understand.

Largely I'm keeping a lot of it the same because again: I do enjoy the series.

[spectralpixelsredone]

Yang Xiao Long and Salem as Foils in RWBY

Yang Xiao Long and Salem serve as profound foils in RWBY, with shared traits like glowing red eyes, fiery associations, and complex paternal relationships highlighting their contrasting backgrounds, motivations, and moralities. Their foil dynamic juxtaposes Yang’s vibrant heroism against Salem’s destructive ambition, illustrating how personal struggles can lead to paths of hope versus despair.

Similarities

Glowing Red Eyes:

Both have glowing red eyes tied to their abilities, symbolizing intensity. Yang’s eyes glow red when her Semblance, "Burn,” activates, amplifying her strength after taking damage (e.g., Volume 6 Adam fight). Salem’s red irises glow with her magical aura, flaring during magical outbursts or Grimm manipulation (e.g., Volume 8, document, page 14). Their glowing eyes reflect their passionate drives.

Complex Paternal Relationships:

Both have significant relationships with their fathers, shaping their journeys. Yang’s father, Taiyang, is a loving, supportive figure who fosters her resilience (e.g., aiding her Volume 4 recovery). Salem’s father, a cruel king, imprisoned her in a tower, fueling her desire for freedom but also her descent into darkness (document, page 14). These paternal dynamics influence their emotional foundations.

Fire Associations:

Both are linked to fire, symbolizing power and destruction. Yang’s Semblance and fiery hair evoke a burning passion, with her theme “I Burn” reflecting her vibrant energy (e.g., Yellow Trailer). Salem’s fire magic and association with the Salem Witch Trials (burning witches) tie to her destructive force, as seen in her fiery attacks (Volume 8, document, page 14). Fire underscores their intense personas.

Hates Being Alone:

Both dread relationships due to fear of loss. Yang fears abandonment, stemming from Raven’s departure, driving her to protect Ruby and Team RWBY (e.g., Volume 5 reunion with Blake). Salem’s isolation in the tower and loss of Ozma fuel her obsessive need for control, leading to her war against humanity (document, page 14). Their fear of loneliness shapes their actions.

Super-Strength:

Both possess exceptional strength. Yang’s physical prowess, enhanced by her Semblance, allows her to deliver devastating blows, impressive for her age (e.g., Volume 6). Salem, despite her delicate frame, exhibits superhuman strength, casually tossing tables or opponents like Yang and Hazel (Volume 8, document). Their strength amplifies their combat presence.

Unskilled, but Strong:

Both rely on raw power over refined technique. Yang’s brawling, while improving, leverages her Semblance and strength to overwhelm foes, with limits as a rookie (e.g., Volume 3 Neo fight). Salem, lacking formal combat skills, uses magic, Grimm abilities, and immortality to outlast opponents, compensating for technique (document, page 14). Their strength-driven styles align but differ in scale.

Chess Motifs:

Both are associated with chess symbolism, reflecting strategic roles. Yang embodies a Rook, symbolizing stability, retaliatory strength, and direct aggression, evolving into a Knight post-recovery for adaptability (document, page 14). Salem’s black chess queen motif represents her manipulative control over pawns like Cinder (e.g., Volume 3 virus). Their chess roles highlight their influence.

Hope vs. Despair Influence:

Both impact others’ morale, though oppositely. Yang inspires hope in her allies, uplifting Ruby and Blake through encouragement (e.g., Volume 6). Salem crushes hope, dividing humanity to demoralize Ozpin and his allies, aiming to render them irredeemable (document, page 14). Their influence shapes their respective sides.

Lightning Bruiser Traits:

Both combine speed and strength. Yang’s agility and Semblance-enhanced power make her a dynamic fighter, though limited by experience (e.g., Volume 6). Salem’s inhuman speed, strength, and magical abilities make her formidable, despite rare combat engagement (Volume 8, document). Their bruiser qualities amplify their threat.

Parental/Mentor Roles:

Both act as guiding figures. Yang serves as a nurturing “parent” to Ruby, fostering her growth as a leader (e.g., Volume 5). Salem is an abusive maternal figure to Cinder, mentoring her as an “evil fairy godmother” while manipulating her ambitions (document, page 14). Their guidance reflects their moral divide.

Differences

Background:

Yang grows up with love from Taiyang and Ruby, providing a stable, supportive foundation that fosters her heroism (e.g., Volume 4 recovery). Salem’s imprisonment by her cruel father, followed by her mother’s death, creates a void of control and isolation, driving her villainy (document, page 14). Yang’s nurturing contrasts with Salem’s trauma.

Motivations:

Yang seeks protection and justice, fighting for her team and Remnant’s safety, as seen in her battles against the Grimm (e.g., Haven defense). Salem pursues destruction and control, driven by immortality and a desire to remake the world, targeting the Relics and Ozpin (document, page 14). Yang’s selflessness contrasts with Salem’s ambition.

Power Source:

Yang’s power is personal, derived from her Semblance, training, and Ember Celica gauntlets, rooted in her human resilience (e.g., Volume 6). Salem’s power is ancient and magical, tied to her immortality, Grimm control, and innate magic (document, page 14). Yang’s earned strength contrasts with Salem’s supernatural might.

Moral Alignment:

Yang is unequivocally heroic, embodying light and hope through her actions (e.g., Volume 8). Salem is the series’ primary antagonist, a “Big Bad” whose darkness divides humanity and fuels the Grimm (document, page 14). Yang’s heroism contrasts with Salem’s malevolence.

Personality:

Yang is fiery, genuine, and expressive, using humor and warmth to connect (e.g., her puns in Volume 1). Salem’s calm, polite facade masks a manipulative, ruthless core, only breaking when enraged (e.g., Volume 8 interrogation). Yang’s authenticity contrasts with Salem’s duplicity.

Combat Engagement:

Yang is always on the front lines, fighting directly with her team (e.g., Volume 6 Adam fight). Salem operates as an “Orcus on Her Throne,” directing subordinates from the shadows, rarely engaging in combat herself (document, page 14). Yang’s hands-on approach contrasts with Salem’s strategic distance.

Light vs. Darkness Themes:

Yang’s bright colors, fiery hair, and “I Burn” theme evoke light and life, aligning with her hopeful heroism (e.g., Volume 5). Salem’s bone-white skin, red-veined markings, and Grimm-like appearance embody darkness and despair (document, page 14). Yang’s radiance contrasts with Salem’s malevolence.

Freedom vs. Control:

Yang lives for freedom, embracing life’s joys and protecting others’ autonomy (e.g., supporting Blake’s choices). Salem’s quest for freedom from her curse drives her to control others, dividing humanity to end her immortality (document, page 14). Yang’s liberation contrasts with Salem’s domination.

Pain Threshold:

Yang’s Semblance allows her to absorb damage, but she feels pain and has limits, as seen in her struggles (e.g., Volume 3). Salem’s high pain threshold and immortality let her endure extreme damage, though she screams in agony when burned (Volume 8, document). Yang’s human limits contrast with Salem’s near-invincibility.

Manipulation vs. Inspiration:

Salem manipulates her minions through fear, loyalty, or ambition, as seen with Cinder, Tyrian, and Hazel (document, page 14). Yang inspires her team to be their best, encouraging Ruby and Blake’s growth (e.g., Volume 6). Salem’s control contrasts with Yang’s upliftment.

Foil Dynamic

Yang and Salem’s foil relationship contrasts vibrant heroism with destructive ambition, using their shared red eyes, fire motifs, and paternal influences to highlight their opposing legacies:

Heroism vs. Villainy: Yang’s selfless protection of Remnant contrasts with Salem’s manipulative quest to divide and destroy humanity. Yang builds hope, while Salem crushes it.

Human vs. Supernatural Power: Yang’s personal, earned strength reflects her resilience, while Salem’s ancient magic and immortality underscore her otherworldly dominance.

Light vs. Darkness: Yang’s bright, fiery themes symbolize life and hope, contrasting with Salem’s dark, Grimm-like presence, embodying despair and destruction.

Freedom vs. Imprisonment: Yang’s free-spirited life contrasts with Salem’s eternal quest for freedom from her curse, achieved through controlling others.

Growth vs. Stagnation: Yang evolves from recklessness to maturity, overcoming trauma (e.g., Volume 3). Salem, trapped by her immortality and pride, remains locked in a cycle of vengeance.

Their Volume 8 encounter encapsulates this foil: Yang’s defiant stand against Salem, protecting her team, contrasts with Salem’s ruthless interrogation and manipulation of Oscar, highlighting Yang’s courage against Salem’s tyranny. Salem’s role as the ultimate antagonist mirrors what Yang fights against, underscoring RWBY’s themes of hope, resilience, and the battle between unity and division.

Conclusion

Yang Xiao Long and Salem are foils whose shared glowing red eyes, fiery associations, and complex paternal relationships highlight their divergent paths. Yang’s vibrant heroism, personal strength, and hopeful inspiration contrast with Salem’s destructive ambition, supernatural power, and manipulative despair. Their dynamic illustrates how love and trauma can shape heroism or tyranny, with Yang embodying life’s light and Salem its darkest shadow.Show in sidebar Extra Info. Both are blondes, well Salem was before everything that happened to them. Dragon Motifs and Mythic Imagery: The text notes Yang’s “lots of dragon motifs,” evoking a powerful, fiery, and legendary creature, which aligns with her bold, fiery personality and Semblance (e.g., her fiery hair and explosive strength). Salem is likened to Maleficent, a dragon-associated villain, suggesting a parallel in their commanding, mythic presence. Both embody dragon-like qualities—Yang as a heroic, vibrant dragon, and Salem as a malevolent, destructive one—linking them through imagery of power and intensity. Also Salem was the princess in the castle, ironic considering Yang could be seen as the dragon

[itsclydebitches]

I'm honestly curious as to what Salem was referring to in the first volume when she said, "there will be no victory in strength" - alluding to all the times Ozpin has failed to defeat her. Interestingly, Salem never directly strongarms her followers into working for her - violence only comes in when they disobey her (Cinder) or she has her followers do it for her. Meanwhile every conflict the heroes face is solved with violence with the exception of heel-turned antagonists who are either narratively disposed of (Ilia + Raven), added to the cast-bloat of 20+ onscreen characters (Emerald + Aceops) or killed off (Hazel), thus not having to reconcile with new dynamics that aren't "everyone is best friends, all the time".

In some respects it feels like a reversal of the standard moral we would expect from a tale like RWBY. (Though, as I always want to stress, not an intentional reversal.) Meaning, most shonen-esque, fairy tale-esque, young protagonists fight some evil force-esque stories present the message that it's not their literal power that saves the day, but rather the Power of Friendship/Love/Purity/Whatever. Or, more accurately, one leads into another. By embracing the emotion that the story wants to uphold as significant, they receive their power up as a cosmic reward (like going Super Saiyan over the love of a friend), or are otherwise rewarded with the solution to their difficulty (like the Guardians of the Galaxy crew splitting the power of the infinity stone). The in-world universe looks at the hero who has Behaved In The Morally Correct Way--which often includes overtly rejecting power--and says, "Here, have a lot of power anyway as a treat. You've proven that you deserve it." Something, something the best leaders don't want to be leaders (insert Ruby's Beacon arc here) and similarly, the people to have a ton of power are those who don't inherently want to be powerful because now there's little chance that they'll misuse it. And for a hot second RWBY went in that direction with a "simple soul" who doesn't want to be the "bees knees" but does want to "help people."

Problem is--as you say--Ruby and the group just solve all of their conflicts with violence. Not in a Power of Friendship/Love way, but ordinary, prodigy, punch-them-until-they-stop-moving violence. Particularly in the later volumes. Ruby doesn't defeat Cordovin with a power-up because a teammate was injured in the fight and she now wants to protect them, they just shoot at her until a massive grimm shows up to finish the job. They don't defeat the Ace Ops with the Power of Teamwork, they all split into separate rooms and we're told they're simply more talented than these professionals, period. Blake doesn't find the strength to defend herself by thinking about Ruby, she begs Ruby to wake and do the work for her. Jaune doesn't save Penny by unlocking some upgraded semblance at a crucial moment out of a love for her, he slits her throat. The group doesn't defeat Cinder in Volume 8 at all. There's no strategy anymore, or success tied to Love--and I do use the word "anymore" deliberately. Because for a long time RWBY's saving grace (no matter its other flaws) were the Silver Eyes: a straightforward ability Powered By Love that was at the heart of our hero's development. Ruby sees Pyrrha die and it activates. She sees Blake in great danger and it activates. Even in Volume 6 when it was getting very flimsy with memories of decorating the dorm and what-not, at least it still revolved around the concept of a found family, even if it was retconning the idea of mortal peril being a trigger. It still mostly worked.

Now though, Ruby simply decides that the fight is over and disintegrates the Hound--no emotion necessary--and she doesn't react at all when her sister is murdered. We lost the one aspect of the show that still revolved around the Power of Friendship/Love.

Which finally brings us back to Salem's opening speech. "There will be no victory in strength." AKA, the standard moral. You can't defeat me by training, learning fancy techniques, or even being a prodigy. At least, you can't wield those things on their own. All the straight-forward power in the world isn't going to bring me down. Her immortality should be a metaphor for that message, wherein the cast learns the thematic lesson of upholding the Power and Love by figuring out how to circumvent the practical problem of an enemy that can't die. This setup works. It's tried and true and tested!!

But than, as said, RWBY swerved hard. Now they're saying that strength is enough. Strength is the ultimate weapon. How do you deal with a traumatized ally? You punch him and demand that he return for more violence. How do you convince an abused brother to help you? Threaten him with your sword. How do you beat the best team in Atlas, possibly the world? By just being more powerful than them, duh.

How do you defeat Salem?

By fighting her. That's the closest the group gets to offering Ironwood a "solution" to their problem: we'll stay here and fight her. How is that going to work given the whole immortality thing? They don't know. They don't care. There's absolutely no discussion about the issue, yet the protagonists continue to push the message that the best--the only--solution is to stand your ground, sharpen your weapons, and find a way to punch the problem into submission. Oh, RWBY still appears very Power of Friendship-y with all the speeches about how they have to work together, but post Volume 4-ish the writing hasn't followed up on that message.

RWBY said, "There will be no victory in strength" and then halfway through its run went, "Never mind, strength is awesome. Why would we write a story about strategy, creativity, and the importance of strong bonds when our heroes can just be More Powerful than the enemy? It's so much simpler to write a story where they're inherently as talented as the plot needs and they've all read the script, so they know they'll win in the end--that's their reasoning and justification. So much better than writing that complicated metaphor."

You know, I'm thinking now about Ironwood's final moments as he reached for his gun and then dropped his hand. Besides the fact that it reads as more sympathetically tragic to me than, I suspect, the pathetic angle RT was going for, within this framework it really reflects his whole philosophy. In a "normal" Power of Love story, there might be something to the idea that he isn't trying hard enough; that unlike our protagonists who Persevere, Ironwood demonstrates a pronounced weakness in giving up. But since the story has established quite clearly that conventional violence will not win this fight--AKA, a gun--it reads more like a tragic wisdom. In his final moments he's not giving up because he can't fight anymore (I mean, whatever else we might say about the guy, he's incredibly determined and resilient), but because he understands that the only course now available to him is useless. From the moment Oscar told him the truth, Ironwood has been working within the realities of their situation. It led him to doing horrific things in the name of finding a lesser evil, but it's narratively significant that he (and Ozpin) is one of the only characters who truly accepts the problem of Salem's immortality and doesn't bow out of the fight (like Raven). He understands that picking up a gun and shooting this being is the height of stupidity. It's a waste of time, of energy, of focus. It might be comforting to pretend that their weapons are still a viable option, but he's not going to spend his last slice of life chasing a delusion. It won't work.

Meanwhile, or protagonists are still ignoring this problem 99% of the time and the other 1% they're going, "Hmm... but what if we tried brute strength 🤔?"

[aspoonofsugar]

You said that Emerald left because she recognized that Cinder's treatment of her is the same as Salem's treatment of Cinder. Could you explain this?

Hello anon,

sorry for the long wait!

I was referring to this scene:

This is the sequence where Cinder gets tortured by Salem and then offered some gratification. Basically, here the stick and carrot approach Salem uses to control Cinder is fully conveyed to the viewers. Well, if you rewatch the scene again, you’ll notice that Em’s reactions are focused on.

Emerald is initially horrified by the torture, but the moment Salem stops and praises Cinder offering her a hand, Em is suddenly shown thoughtful, as if she has realized something... and after that she is never seen mentioning nor approaching Cinder anymore throughout volume 8′s second half.

Like, the change is so sudden that it is impossible to miss. Em’s story throughout the first half of volume 8 is all about Cinder. She is happy Cinder is back, she follows Cinder around, tries to impress Cinder, helps Cinder, saves Cinder, defends Cinder, etc... but after Midnight? Cinder basically just disappears from Em’s storyline. She talks with Mercury, has an emotional moment with him and then she is saved by Hazel and bonds with Oscar. Basically, the second half of volume 8 is all about Emerald’s other relationships.

Why is that so? Well, the implication here is clear (and I think it will be elaborated on later in the series).

Emerald sees Salem and Cinder’s interaction and recognizes it as abuse and then she suddenly realizes Cinder has been abusing her in the exact same way. It is important that Em realizes it after she sees Salem being “kind” to Cinder. As a matter of fact Cinder’s “kindness” is the reason why Em has been excusing her all along:

Emerald: I just...Cinder was the only family I ever had. She cared about me, taught me things...

Cinder gave her food! Cinder took care of her! She was so so kind, so it must be because she loves Em, right? No matter how much Cinder mistreats her, Em clings to Cinder’s small acts of kindness as proof there is a bond between them. Well, seeing Cinder failling for the exact same trick on Salem’s hands is what wakes Em up.

Cinder being kind to her does not mean she loves Em. It is just Cinder reproducing the exact same dynamics she was brought up with:

Cinder: Do not mistake your place.

Salem: This game is not yours to win, Cinder, it’s mine.

Cinder: Don't think... obey.

Salem:  All you need concern yourself with is your ability to act when I tell you to.

Mercury has been telling Emerald all along:

Mercury: Cinder doesn't care about you! She doesn't care about either of us!

Still, Emerald is too blind at least until Midnight... and here we find another minor way the title fits the episode. Midnight is the time when illusions end and when Cinderella loses her beautiful dress and reveals herself for who she is. This is the episode where we as viewers see Cinder for who she is... and the same happens to Em. Cinder’s idealized image fades away leaving Em with the hard truth.

I hope this clarifies things! Thank you for the ask and have a nice day!