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littlemisssquiggles · 1 year ago

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So miles did another cameo video about a week ago someone asked him what it would have been like if Oscar had gone to the ever after and Miles confirmed that if Oscar had been there with Ruby she wouldn't have gone through the conflict and trauma she was going through and volume nine if he had been there cuz Oscar would have been the one to notice it instantly unlike the others who didn't notice it till after she snapped at them

You can even see hints of it in the episode were they meet John again and they're at his house where Ruby sitting at the table and across from Ruby is an empty chair while Ruby sits there and look at Yang and Blake happily celebrating their new relationship Ruby sits there if so she's missing someone and that someone is Oscar I think

Hello anon-chan! Pardon the late answer to your inbox.

Do you mind linking me to this specific cameo you mentioned pretty please? Because I would honestly loved to listen to it.

Funnily enough, you’re the second person to bring up the theory that the empty seat across from Ruby at Jaune’s home in the Ever After during the scene before Jaune returns Crescent Rose to Ruby could’ve easily been filled by Oscar.

It makes perfect sense that Oscar would’ve been the one to notice Ruby’s depression if he were there since he has been shown to be weary of that in previous seasons such as the infamous dojo scene. Oscar noticing Ruby’s change in demenour is what initially prompted him to push her to admit her true feelings about everything that happened during the Fall of Beacon.

Not to mention that when Ruby was shown to be overwhelmed at the Cotta-Arc during the moment when Jaune exploded after JNR learned the truth about Oz and Salem, Oscar was the one to take notice of this and even did his best to help quell the situation.

Oscar has always been observant of Ruby’s feelings especially when she is at her lowest. It’s one of the reasons why I love their dynamic so much. Ruby has always been protective of Oscar since the moment he joined the team, looking out for him in her own way just as much as he looked out for her.

Oscar should’ve been there for Ruby in the Ever After just as how Ruby should’ve been the one to lead the charge to save him from Monstra instead of Jaune back in V8.

I absolutely hated the fact that Ruby was omitted from Oscar’s side of the story back then and this is one of the reasons why I didn’t enjoy that season.

The CRWBY showrunners spent the last few seasons continuously building up this shared sense of caring and protectiveness as the basis of the Rosegarden friendship and yet…there was no payoff?

They showed prior moments of Ruby protecting Oscar yet…she was completely absent during his most dire time of need---being a prisoner of Salem and brutally tortured by her and Hazel for hours. Ruby was not allowed to protect Oscar from that.

They showed prior moments of Oscar being a voice of wisdom to encourage Ruby to open up and be honest with herself and those around her yet…he was absent during her darkest emotional moment yet---her literal breaking point where she committed the Ever After equivalent of suicide.

You see the pattern?

Neither Ruby nor Oscar were present during each other’s worse moments.

They weren’t allowed to because the writers knew, canonically, these two would be each other’s true savior---their beacon in the darkness to get more metaphorical.

Because they needed the story to go a different way to get the ending that we actually got in V8 and V9, that’s how it had to go.

If Oscar has gone to the Ever After then Ruby would’ve never had her whole arc which…needed to happen. Although, some might argue that the whole point of Ruby’s journey in the Ever After was ultimately made pointless by her going from “no longer wanting to be Ruby Rose anymore” to “being Ruby Rose just as I am is enough. I’m Ruby-nough! I don’t need to change at all. I’m perfect just the way I am even with the flaws that I still possess that led me down this path in the first place”.

Sarcasm aside, I don’t dislike the fact that Ruby chose to be herself in the end. Being yourself and having yourself be enough is a good message. I just wished the showrunners had allowed this concept to cook more. While I’m aware they were pressed for time given the fact that no V10 was greenlit, nevertheless, I would’ve rather a twist where only Weiss, Blake, Yang and Jaune were able to return home while Ruby remained in the Ever After to complete her transformation.

We spent nearly an entire season building up to Ruby’s breakdown. It took 8 out of 10 episodes to have Ruby fall apart only to have her have her big revelation in the last episode. That makes the whole thing seem almost flat so I don't blame some fans for being disappointed with the conclusion to Ruby's Ever After story being concluded that way.

I dunno about you anon-chan but this just makes me disappointed that Oscar wasn’t present for the Ever After Arc because all cues prior to V9 hinted that he could’ve easily been added to this season and worked.

Oscar was the one who first introduced the audience to the fairytale of the Girl Who Fell Through the World.

Not to mention the whole theme of the Ever After being about embracing change---Oscar SHOULD’VE gone to the Ever After. Part of Oscar’s journey is about him coming to terms with the Merge with him either losing himself completely or becoming a new person entirely.

Seeing Oscar going through his own arc while trying to help Ruby with hers could've been great to see. But alas, that's not what we got.

I will give the showrunners this though---if Oscar had gone to the Ever After then we probably may not have gotten the clue that Ruby cares deeply for him.

It is very evident after V9 that Oscar's life is precious to Ruby. Shipping and romantic implications asides, you can't deny the fact that Oscar's wellbeing is important to Ruby.

Much like characters such as Penny and Pyrrha, Oscar is someone who Ruby doesn't want to lose.

Better yet, he is someone precious to Ruby that she doesn't wish to lose as a result of her failure.

Take a look at the deaths of Pyrhha and Penny. What do those deaths have in common?

Ruby failing to stop it from happening in the first place.

Ruby was present for Penny's first death but arrived too late to stop it from happening.

Ruby was present for Pyrhha's death but arrived too late to stop it from happening.

Ruby was present again for Penny's final death but got tossed into the Ever After before she could do anything to help stop it from happening.

Once again, Penny died and Ruby failed to stop it from happening. This is why the words of her illusion cut Ruby deeply during the Mad Tea Party fight.

"...Just like you were too late to save me at the Vytal Festival. I died in Atlas too, didn't I? Could you imagine what that's like? To be completely and utterly failed time and again by someone who meant the world to you..."

Similar to Penny, Ruby is someone who Oscar has been shown to care deeply for and Ruby, in turn, cares a lot for him. The evidence of that has been shown sprinkled throughout the seasons. There is no denying that these two smaller, more honest souls care very much for each other.

While there has yet to be any payoff to the development in their relationship as yet, one thing's for certain is that Oscar is a person of importance to Ruby.

He is someone she doesn't want to lose. He is someone she doesn't want to fail.

He is someone she can't stand to watch die because of her own inability to protect him.

Not again after she's failed others like him in the past.

Overall, I guess the point I'm trying to make here is, while it would've been great to see Oscar in the Ever After with Ruby (since he definitely would've prevented her breakdown), at the same time, the showrunners did still found a way to use his presence as part of the narrative to signify something about his connection to Ruby.

Oscar needed to be absent in order to Ruby to have her arc yet ironically, he was the reason for Ruby's breakdown in the first place. While Little's death was the final straw that drove Ruby over the edge, before that moment, it was actually the imagery of Oscar's death caused by HER HANDS that drove Ruby to her final breaking point.

While it would've been nice to see Oscar there with Ruby, in a way, he was still there with her---being used by Neo to indicate to the audience that Oscar is a person of dear importance to Ruby.

Moving forward, I expect the events of V9 to have some kind of impact on Ruby's overall relationship with Oscar. I want to believe the events of the Ever After would make Ruby more overprotective of Oscar; possibly hinting at much deeper feelings. That's how I see it.

~LMS (2023)

#squiggles answers: rwby #rwby volume 9 spoilers #ruby rose #oscar pine #oscar and ruby #rwby rosegarden #rwby theories

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maxiemumdamage · 2 months ago

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My best guess would be that his role is to hamper Ozpin’s recruitment capabilities. Like, Salem wand to divide humanity, to deprive Oz of allies — having a guy on her team who you could trick someone into thinking is generally morally decent and loudly hates Oz for the fact he lets innocent children die for his “greater good.”

Essentially, it’s her way of using Oz’s goodness/desire to work with good people, and his willingness to sacrifice them, against him. And I think Salem doesn’t usually need a strong reason to bully Ozma.

Weird thought I had while working on an answer to that list of Salty Asks:

Does anyone else feel like Hazel is just a bit... undercooked, as a villain? At least when compared to Cinder, Tyrian and Watts.

To be clear, I'm not saying he's a bad character. He's got his great moments and his whole arc and conflict with Oscar and Ozpin is solid. It's more that he doesn't exactly have the same presence as a VILLAIN like the others.

Now you can certainly argue that this is part of the POINT of his character; that he's not actually a bad person and is being manipulated via his grief and anger by Salem. But particularly looking back in hindsight that kind of puts him in a position of the villain we're all just waiting to have his big change of heart and switch sides. Even as early as Volume 4, Hazel was pretty obviously the 'least-villainous villain' of Salem's crew, and he never really stops being that. He never really even DOES anything all that real overtly villainous. Well, aside from the all the child-punching.

Plus this ties into an even bigger contrast/sorta-issue: Looking back at Salem's inner circle, Hazel has this distinct 'What do you actually DO here?' vibe compared to everyone else.

Cinder, Tyrian and Watts? Each of them have very clear REASONS why Salem would want to recruit them, particularly in hindsight:

Cinder is Salem's loyal Maiden, key to the Vaults and possibly part of her Grimm-Hybrid experiments.

Tyrian is an absolutely deadly and fanatically loyal murder machine.

Watts is the absolute hard counter to ALL things Atlisian. And also tech support.

And Hazel is, uh... extra muscle, I guess?

You see what I mean, right? Why exactly DID Salem recruit Hazel specifically?

There's even an argument that each of Salem's four underlings have qualities specifically geared towards getting Salem one of the Relics:

Cinder is obviously the Fall Maiden who can open the Vault of Choice. Watts, again, is the secret weapon to cracking open Atlas to get at the Vault of Creation. And we may find out that Tyrian's skills make him particularly effective in Vacuo.

So then... HOW exactly was Hazel specifically meant to help get the Lamp of Knowledge? Again, when you look back at the Battle of Haven at the end of Volume 5, it feels like he was just there to be extra muscle.

Now I don't think all this is a huge problem for Hazel. Like I said at the start, I think as a character he's pretty solid and has a great arc and payoff.

I guess it's more that when compared to a lot of the rest of RWBY's villains, especially his three co-henchmen to the big bad, Hazel feels a bit underdeveloped/toothless.

#besides y’know. their whole tortured exes dynamic.#this is all just speculation of course but it doesn’t seem impossible to me #that Hazel is there more to hurt Oz than because of the many ways he’s useful #(which he genuinely is! as is covered above the guy is a powerhouse)#but I think he’s mostly there to make Ozpin feel. bad.#hazel rainart #rwby villains #rwby analysis #salem rwby #rwby

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invested-in-your-future · 1 year ago

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Can you share your thoughts on Mercury Black and why you think he was mishandled

Honestly I think the entire original villain trio suffered heavily from addition of, like, ten different kind of pointless council of evil Salem flunkies, some of them overlapping "purpose" with Cinder's group.

Redemption or Villainy, they get to do neither of these character arcs.

The issue lies in multiple aspects of how the story is built:

It feels like MilesWBY people genuinely have no idea what they want to do with them beyond, for some awkward reason, trying to turn Cinder into Azula (but instead unwittingly turning her into a Team Rocket member). In MilesWBY writers' minds Cinder, Mercury and Emerald are "package deal".

They don't want to "overshadow" the "new guys" in Salem's Evil Council of Evil, but at the same time they NEED Cinder's group front and center because that's where majority of actual "stakes" for Team RWBY lie. Thus instead nobody gets proper development (seriously, who even cares about Hazel at this point or whatever his weird nonsensical motivations are?).

I am beginning to suspect writers might not quite get the "whole morality thing" and instead are treating it as a game between two , almost biblical, teams. You are either against Salem and thus "good" or you are "morally compromised" and thus are insta-aligned with Salem. They are clearly not interested in the idea of "good" people furthering Salem(or "bad" people working against her for that matter) nor are they interested in the idea of there being more than "two teams, one good, one evil" (case in point the absolute narrative pointlessness of Lionheart or how abrupt and weird the flip to evil was for Ironwood the moment he was on the opposite side of the "heroes that want to stop Salem"). It's why most Salem's flunkies( yes even Cinder's, whose whole character motivation got resolved within that needless flashback and it seems like she joined Salem "just because evil") motivations of working with her don't hold up under scrutiny even for a second within the idea of what Salem is said to want to do in the show. Evil is Salem and thus being Evil makes you on her side. And once you erase the concept of morality, you erase everything that's interesting about those three characters. What's interesting about them? The fact that they are not Salem and have been set up and implied to have their own goals and thoughts and reasons to do this.

The showrunners have a tendency to believe that the actual interesting things that people MIGHT want to see are actually boring and can be done offscreen. Who cares about actually showing Emerald's struggle or adding actual depth and complexity to either of the three? Who cares about doing anything when you can just say it happened already?

Really, I don't think Emerald or Mercury are the situation where one was done worse than the other. Narrative screwed over both, just in different ways. Emerald lost any semblance of interesting arc about her doubts and allegiance (and consequences for her actions whatever they may be) and Mercury had no chance to have any sort of depth or complexity.

Remember when people were theorizing on why Cinder might be doing this or the dynamics within the team? Remember when people were excited at how freaked Emerald looked during Fall of Beacon and were wondering where that will lead? Remember when "Just what did Cinder show to convince Emerald" was a mystery? Remember about all the ideas people had about Mercury's original flashback in V3? Or the weird backstab-y dynamic between the three and where that could lead? Penny situation and Ruby's trauma and the role Emerald played in that? Yang's situation and the implications of what happened in that fight with Mercury? In the eyes of the show all those things ended up being "irrelevant".

Sadly, at this point of MilesWBY, where everything is about gods, talking animals and other nonsense, Cinder's group is kind of pointless. Just another missed opportunity.

#rwby #rwde #emerald sustrai #mercury black

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bestworstcase · 1 year ago

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you refer to summer as proto-cinder - do you have thoughts then for how actual cinder coming into the picture affected that dynamic? like was summer Salem’s protege first, do you think? did cinder replace her + she got sent away or did she get promoted when cinder arrived? mostly just asking for your speculation since I don’t think we have many canon answers but I love reading your rwby thoughts

loosely my thinking is that:

1 - salem at the time was not participating in ozpin’s forever war in any meaningful sense. that his hush-hush last minute urgent missions routinely turned out to be inconsequential false alarms because he was jumping at every shadow while salem mostly ignored him. (and: i think she knew he’d hidden the relics in the schools, but didn’t yet know the particulars.)

2 - raven did not go back to banditry when she broke things off with tai, or if she did it was as a cover for her work as a spy; hence her continued working relationship with summer years later.

3 - gretchen rainart was the spring maiden. ozpin picked her out of beacon’s ranks the same way he did pyrrha, then pulled her out of the normal curriculum and sent her to mistral to be trained, in secret, by raven. the public story was that she “tragically lost her life in a training mission,” and hazel knew something didn’t add up.

4 - discomfort with that situation, combined with raven and summer both thinking ahead 10-12 years to when their daughters would be gretchen’s age, is what got the wheels turning on the secret rogue mission to take salem down.

5 - the plan was for summer to go in alone, banking on silver eyes, with raven and gretchen at a safe distance but ready to intervene if summer got into trouble. (think: gretchen blasting magic through a portal positioned to hit salem, raven ducking through and yanking summer out before salem could recover. with kindred link’s sensory aspect and a maiden’s firepower, that’s about the best escape plan summer could have had.)

6 - ozpin does his level best to keep his people as far away from salem as possible. salem knows this. one of ozpin’s guardians tracking her down with heroic declarations at the ready would interest her, and she’d instantly zero in on summer having gone rogue. that’s an opportunity: it indicates a fracture in her faith in ozpin. so salem didn’t try to smush summer like a bug; she started talking.

7 - unlike her daughters, who really have been fighting a war, summer’s experience up to that point had been a lot of secrecy, paranoia, and false alarms. if she said “i’ll stop you” and salem answered “i’m not doing anything to stop”—it would not have taken a lot of convincing to believe that, because it tracks.

8 - once the first hurdle of believing that salem isn’t waging existential war against humanity is cleared, it’s really, really easy to flip the narrative against ozpin. all salem has to do is tell summer about the mandate while stressing that the gods cannot be appeased, that they destroyed the world once before and will do it again if ozpin calls them back. which is true!

9 - salem, for whatever reason, wants the relics. if summer believes her about the mandate, getting her on board with stealing the relics is as easy as “ozpin is planning to bring them together soon; we have to get them away from him” or “i can destroy them” or “we can use them to stop him forever.” if summer doesn’t believe it… well, ozpin must trust her a great deal, to have told her of salem’s existence. surely she knows where and how he’s hidden the relics? go find the lamp. use it to find the truth for yourself; then make your choice.

10 - isn’t it serendipitous, then, that summer has the living breathing key to the vault of knowledge on her side?

check and mate.

whether summer buys salem’s story or not, the stakes are so high that she can’t afford not to seek confirmation—and with raven and gretchen already involved, it would be so easy to be in and out of that vault with no one the wiser, and they can always seal it away again if it turns out salem lied. one way or another, summer has to open that vault.

what happens next?

i think there are two plausible ways this might have shaken out, depending on how much trust raven had in ozpin and how willing summer was to take salem at her word.

if raven trusted ozpin and summer believed salem, then things probably got heated fast when summer returned unscathed from meeting salem and started talking about ozpin being the real danger and needing gretchen to open the vault; they might have come to blows then, and with gretchen caught in between.

if summer believed and raven was skeptical, they probably did get the vault open—but they wouldn’t have been able to use the lamp. none of them knew jinn’s name. so what then? do they seal the lamp, or trust salem’s word and bring it to her? how does gretchen feel about those options? how intense is summer about getting at least one relic away from oz?

either way… the only thing we really know about the last spring maiden is that she struggled with the magic; it was too much for her, she was scared, the training never stuck, she wasn’t cut out for it. and she was a student—probably not much older than pyrrha. we’ve seen how poorly a young, not-fully-trained maiden fared against a couple of kids and cinder. summer and raven were among the best of the best. so if things got heated enough to come to blows…

i doubt very much that summer planned or intended to kill gretchen; she’s the proto-cinder in the sense that i think salem saw an opportunity to snag a relic and maybe a valuable double agent and went for it. why look a gift horse in the mouth?—but it was all sort of ad hoc.

but then you have a girl with power she can’t master because she’s been isolated and she just wants to go home, and the old unspoken tension between the only two adults who care enough to try to make that happen very suddenly erupting when one of them flips her loyalties out of the blue. that is a volatile situation. all the more so if it’s kept simmering until the relic is out of the vault and they’re realizing that they don’t know how to use it and they’re all going to have to choose without knowingwho told the truth.

what happens to summer rose if things get out of control and she lands the fatal blow? does she run? does she move to help before raven lashes out and forces her to run? how far does she get before it hits her that she cannot go back home?—that the choices she made, the blood she spilled tonight have tied her irrevocably to salem whether she likes it or not?

and then there’s raven, left behind to give gretchen the bitter mercy of a quick and painless death. she becomes spring—maybe seals the lamp away again, if it got that far—and then has to consider her options. tell the truth and face whatever consequences there might be for letting this happen, or… ash the body, and feign surprise come morning? leave on the pretense of searching for her missing protege, then drop out of contact and stay as far the fuck away from this mess as possible? let the guilt and the secrets fester unchecked for twelve years, always looking over her shoulder because summer has to know, she must, who gretchen gave the magic to. does salem know? would summer tell her? can raven afford to trust that she won’t?

salem specifically sought out hazel. why? how did she even know about him, if not because summer told her? (<- a decade and change later when salem is actively prosecuting a war, she doesn’t have the slightest idea who neopolitan is—after neo was instrumental in the fall of beacon! salem is not exactly obsessively monitoring what goes on in vale!) and hazel says that gretchen’s death taught him never to trust ozpin.

if “training mission gone wrong” was a cover story for pushing gretchen into hiding after she became the spring maiden, and summer knew that, and summer tried to stop it only for that attempt to go so catastrophically wrong that gretchen died because of her, and the whole time hazel was still desperately trying to get answers… and one of the very few things we know about who summer is as a person is that she Does Not Like To Lie… wouldn’t she feel that hazel deserved to know what really happened?

and if this is how salem learned that the relics are in vaults only the maidens can open—to say nothing of how the maidens themselves are treated!—then. well, ‘divide’ and ‘sacrifice’ are both seethinglydisdainful about the futility of ozpin’s sacrifices and his cause. it isn’t a stretch to think this might have been what incited salem to actually go to war for the relics. and in that case it seems only natural for her to recruit hazel, too, because salem literally is motivated by gretchen’s death. and she can sidestep the part where summer is the one who killed gretchen by hammering ozpin’s conspiratorial lies.

and then—because summer is wholly unsuitable as a skeleton-key maiden vessel by dint of having moral reservations about murdering people and no particular desire for power—salem needs to find herself a protege. and maybe pick up another agent or two while she’s at it.

cinder is only a few years older than yang. she was probably around ten or eleven when summer met salem and the dominoes began to fall; she didn’t escape the madame until her mid-teens, and we don’t know how much time passed in between then and salem finding her. so quite a lot—half or more—of the interim between summer joining her and the beginning of V1, salem probably spent just looking for a viable candidate. and then training her while laying out the plan to off ozpin, hit the academies, and seize the relics before ozma even knew what hit him. so summer, i think, would have had a fairly lengthy period of time to reconcile herself to beginning the war she thought she was going to end, as a necessary step towards ending the wider conflict and the harm done by ozpin’s one-sided imaginary war. her life is a mess. she probably hates… everything about what her side is doing but if she really was involved directly in gretchen’s death then she’s kind of stuck with salem until/unless the truth comes out, and even aside from that there is the problem of the divine ultimatum to worry about; after more than a decade i would imagine that summer has firmly been convinced that salem isn’t gunning for annihilation, because if it came down to a choice between confessing to murder or helping bring about the end of the world, i do think summer would pick the former.

#‘summer killed spring’ does really feel like the most plausible pin holding summer on salem’s side #with zero attempts made to contact her family or negotiate with oz #i’m nnnot convinced heroic burnout alone would be enough for THAT long. 12 years!#also: ‘what does she have on you’#would sure uh. hit different #along with literally every other word out of raven’s mouth lmfao #. . . wouldn’t it be punchy though if gretchen died because summer knocked her off the ledge of the haven vault #easiest possible way to kill someone without meaning to. and it would recontextualize the end of V5 in such a knife twisting way

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supersaiyanjedi14 · 2 years ago

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RWBY COMBAT ANALYSIS: OZPIN

“The single quality that is common across every living creature on this planet... is fear. It's funny then, that as common as fear is... we so easily underestimate its power. Fear of growing close to someone, a subsequent fear of loss, fear of failure. And as more people depend on you, those fears can take on greater power. But fear itself isn't worthy of concern, it is who we become while in its clutches. Will you be proud of that person? Will you forgive them? Will you understand why they felt the need to do the things they did? Will you even recognize them? Or will the person staring back at you be the very thing you should have feared from the start?”

PHYSICAL

In the wake of Salem’s attempted overthrow of the Brother Gods and the subsequent purging of the first age of humanity, her former lover, the warrior mage Ozma, was reincarnated by the God of Light to act as an instrument against her, charged with reunifying mankind and keeping her at bay. Ozma was reborn countless times over the millennia, and when Salem’s agents instigated the Fall of Beacon Academy, he was operating as Ozpin, the institution’s headmaster. A middle-aged human male, Ozpin had been a member of Beacon’s staff since at least Team STRQ’s freshman year roughly 21 years prior, so he was likely in his mid to late 50s at the time of his physical death. While little is known about this incarnation’s personal background, he was confirmed to have been the youngest individual to attain a Headmaster position, the thousands of years of cumulative training and combat experience from his previous forms making him appear to be a prodigal talent and wise beyond his assumed years. As headmaster and a member of the Vale Council, he operated publicly as an administrative and political official, though in private he dedicated himself to a war of shadows against Salem, building a cadre of sundry yet well-placed allies among the other academies. The sad irony was that he found himself keeping just as many secrets from his friends as he did his enemies, his experiences with betrayal and deception leading him to keep many details closer to the chest than necessary.

Putting together a set of physical statistics for Ozpin is difficult due to a lack of information. Despite being a heavily featured character in the show’s first three seasons, Ozpin was only depicted in combat a single time, that being the brief snippets of his final duel with Cinder Fall, while all his other on-screen combative feats have been while he was possessing the body of Oscar Pine. Regardless, there is just enough information available and that can be inferred that a good measure of his abilities can be gauged. As a conventional man standing 6’6”, Ozpin had no significant anatomical factors or enhancements, distinguished only by his graying hair, brown eyes, and slender build. While his desk job kept him away from direct battlefields, Ozpin remained active in his campaigns against Salem, and as a professional Huntsman and veteran military operative, he would have certainly maintained a strict training regimen to keep himself healthy and vital. Despite being an older man, Ozpin remained valid competition for the much younger Cinder Fall, matching her fairly evenly during their battle. A speed and skill based martial artist, he demonstrated his highly polished dexterity in his core fencing technique, contending with Cinder’s assortment of weapons and deflecting her projectiles with casual ease. His agility was expressed though his dynamic physical component, combining blinding rushes with nimble footwork and incorporating deft acrobatic evasions during his fight with Hazel Rainart at Haven. Though the latter is a flawed demonstration due to the fact that he was operating in Oscar’s body rather than his own, Ozpin’s muscle memory and complete willingness to utilize such maneuvers leads me to believe that he did incorporate them in his previous form. In the realm of strength, Ozpin has little to draw from, as the few physical feats we have for him point to him being a speedster and measured fencer rather than a power duelist or brawler. Regardless, he did employ focused power blows against Hazel, so they were, again, likely part of what he used in his own form. Furthermore, given his previous incarnations as a battlefield warrior, he would have almost certainly attempted to maintain a good balance among his attributes, which would have obviously included strength training. He’s not particularly domineering, but he’s not even remotely weak.

Harder to determine than anything else is Ozpin’s tolerance for pain and injury, as the only hit he’s ever been seen taking was the sustained blast of fire that killed him. On one hand, Ozpin’s age had likely undercut his ability to maintain his performance in the long term, and fatigue would have almost certainly been a significant hurdle for him in any prolonged confrontation. On the other, Ozpin was a highly experienced player in his war with Salem and has clearly been though the meatgrinder of hard combat, so I sincerely doubt that he was some glass cannon who couldn’t take a hit. Even if his years did hamper his stamina, his emphasis on controlled technique minimized physical strain, and he was able to fight evenly with Cinder Fall for an extended bout despite the Fall Maiden’s youth. As several of his incarnations were military operatives and/or suffered extremely violent deaths, Ozpin has certainly endured a considerable amount of pain and suffering yet has continued to fight on. In any event, Ozpin’s millennia of training and combat experience afforded him with extreme patience and discipline, maintaining his calm under fire even in the most horrifying situations. During his battle with Hazel at Haven, Ozpin was subjected to numerous physical blows that knocked him across the hall, and while his possession of Oscar again limits the value of measuring his resiliency, this display does provide a powerful demonstration of his ability to understand and deal with pain in the heat of combat. His mental health was by no means perfect, however, as his traumatic experiences and the mounting pressures of his perpetual conflict with Salem left him an emotionally vulnerable man. When Jinn recounted his history to Team RWBY, the combination of reliving his life’s failures and the team’s angered reaction motivated him to retreat into Oscar’s subconscious, not resurfacing for several months at minimum. Fortunately, Ozpin has only cracked when specific buttons have been pushed, often through specific knowledge of his history, and he otherwise remained a stoic pillar of discipline, keeping himself together and persevering under fire.

During his service as Beacon’s headmaster, Ozpin dressed for the job, his wardrobe reflecting his professional status while also remaining practical for fighting. His day-to-day attire consisted of a simple black suit under which he wore a green dress shirt and vest, with a green scarf wrapped around his neck. He also regularly wore a pair of shaded spectacles, though weather these were prescriptions or merely sunglasses has never been confirmed. No protection, but still functional and stylish.

RANKING: Tier 3, Advanced Human Fitness

On one hand, Ozpin is a very strong athlete whose performance levels are more than sufficient to enable his combat skill and outperform his adversaries. But on the other hand, he was past his prime and was beginning to contend with the limitations of age. Ozpin will not burn out immediately, his feats and accolades proving that he can hold out in hard combat, but he does have a lower ceiling than one would hope for. Fortunately, Ozpin is aware of his limits and has built himself to compensate for them while continuing to leverage his strengths. Outwardly unassuming yet dynamic and powerful, he combines blinding energy with balanced, relaxed grace, employing a measured approach to cover his bases and stay alive while working to wear down his opponents before they can wear him down in turn. Essentially, an over the hill Tier 2.

MARTIAL

The ancient warrior Ozma carried a large, jeweled staff during his lifetime and continued to carry it through his incarnations, though by the time he inhabited the body of an unnamed settler, he had rebuilt it into the Long Memory, a collapsible cane imbued with magical properties. When fully extended, the cane was approximately three feet long, though Oscar Pine’s use of the weapon seems to suggest that the length is adjustable. It’s squared shaft composed of a highly durable black substance, and the silvered handgrip featured a protective hand guard. The handle was capped off on one end by a rounded pommel while the shaft extended from an intricate gear system that was clearly part of its magical components. The most notable property of the Memory was its enchantments, which allowed it to store kinetic energy from hits it either delivered or endured and then release that power at will. I’ll elaborate more on this in the Special Abilities section, but as it stands, the Long Memory in irrefutably the single most powerful hand-held weapon in the setting at this time.

Prior to his original death, Ozma was a famed wandering warrior, renowned for his righteousness, courage, and will. Already a tried and tested combatant when he learned of Salem, his skills allowed him to make quick work of Salem’s father and his armies, and he spent his remaining years as an adventuring hero. After becoming a reincarnating immortal, he continued to train and fight in his various conflicts with his former lover, garnering experience as a frontier settler, military operative, and of course, a Huntsman. His most notable form prior to becoming Ozpin was the last Warrior King of Vale, leading his forces to victory through the Great War and personally directing the final campaign in Vacuo, where he was reported to have laid waste to whole armies. With thousands of years of training and experience under his belt, Ozpin was unquestionably one of the greatest martial combatants, not just of his era, but of Remnant’s history as a whole. Even when operating under non-combative roles, namely his Headmastership of Beacon Academy, Ozpin understood that confrontation with Salem’s agents was an inevitability, not a hypothetical, and as such stayed on top of his training. However, despite being a heavily featured character for RWBY’s first three volumes (and even after the fact due to his merging with Oscar), Ozpin has surprisingly few explicit combat feats to his name, and the full range of his specific proficiencies has not been explored. Fortunately, there is just enough actual substance to back up his reputation, as the few fights he has been seen in speak to his incredibly advanced skill. Ozpin primarily operated as an armed combatant, Ozma’s skill as a swordsman demonstrated when he casually slew a Beowolf mere seconds after awakening in his first incarnation. This apparent specialization was expressed in his primary fighting technique, wielding his cane much like a rapier. His favored attacks were swift thrusts and stabs, employing both single strike takedowns and rapid-fire stabbing assaults, as well as powerful slashes and chops to bludgeon the opponent. Despite lacking an obvious edge, Ozpin’s attacks were always executed with grace and precision, his strikes targeting vulnerable joints to stagger and incapacitate his opponents, demonstrated when he brought the much larger and stronger Hazel Rainart to his knees. For defense, he favored whipping deflection parries to intercept projectiles and shunt blocks to brace against melee attacks, while relying on acrobatic evasions to avoid attacks he couldn’t meet head-on. As far as alternative fighting methods went, Ozpin has demonstrated advanced skill in hand-to-hand martial arts, taking an active role in teaching Ruby Rose such methods during their time in Mistral. Additionally, while Ozpin has never been seen utilizing firearms, I simply refuse to believe that someone with his career was not at least a competent marksman.

After millennia of operating as a frontline combatant, wartime military commander, administrator, and politician, it should come as no surprise that Ozpin was one of the most capable strategic minds of his day, distinguished by his calm demeanor and cautious foresight. With Salem and the Grimm as a constant, seemingly unending threat, Ozpin was extremely wary and preached constant vigilance against potential threats. However, where other preparation-minded leaders such as James Ironwood simply built up their primary power base to deter potential aggressors, Ozpin understood the large-scale impact of his decisions, emphasizing intelligence gathering and covert operations to take his opponents’ measure and nip threats in the bud before they spiraled out of control. In this manner, he effectively kept his conflict with Salem a complete secret for millennia, anticipating her attempts at insurrection and maneuvering his own well-placed followers to counter her. When Team RWBY uncovered information about the White Fang’s operations in Southeast, Ozpin opted to let the students scout out the area and work to dismantle them rather than sending troops to the region and tipping their hand prematurely. This vigilant and observant approach made him virtually impossible to overcome directly, forcing Cinder Fall to conduct a long, clandestine conspiracy in order to facilitate the Fall of Beacon. While Ozpin, like everyone else, was caught completely off-guard by the sudden terror attack, he maintained his composure and quickly delegated his subordinates to mount a defense, demonstrating that he could keep control of himself and maintain his tactical viability even when completely blindsided. Of course, Ozpin was by no means passive, and would decisively intervene when situations boiled over, forcibly taking over Oscar’s body during their battle with Hazel for his own safety after the farmhand insisted on acting on his own. Clearly a student of psychological warfare, Ozpin could quickly pick out specific buttons to push, getting under his adversaries’ skin to undermine their composure or, ideally, conscript them to his cause. When Oscar was captured in Atlas, Ozpin pleaded with Hazel to defect by appealing to his once noble intentions, eventually offering the identity of Jinn as a sign of trust. However, this emphasis on secrecy and underhanded tactics also highlighted his key limitation as a leader, as he frequently kept just as much information from his allies as his enemies. While a good man who genuinely valuing and caring for the well-being of his followers, Ozpin’s history of betrayal left it difficult for him to trust others with the whole truth, to the point where he was hiding critical information from his agents as he used them to achieve his goals. This seemingly callous use of people as tools and manipulation through half-truths contributed directly to Raven Branwen’s abandonment of his inner circle, broke Team RWBY’s trust in his leadership, and contributed heavily to Ironwood’s eventual fall from grace.

As far as his conduct in live combat was concerned, Ozpin applied his cautious yet proactive mindset in a way to undermine and subvert his opponents. He would open defensively so as to gauge the opponent’s skills, though he also had a tendency to draw his weapon to provoke a response. Once he settled into a comfortable rhythm or took the opponent’s measure, he would turn around and begin an intense yet measured assault, blitzing the opponent wherever possible and, whenever not, striking at exposed weak points to disable them. This method was best demonstrated in his battle with Hazel Rainart at the Battle of Haven, during which time he was occupying the body of his newest host, Oscar Pine. While initially content to let Oscar cut his teeth in the battle, this came to an abrupt halt when Rainart became aware of their situation, stabbing electric Dust into his arms and viciously assaulting Oscar. Forced to possess the boy for his own safety, Ozpin casually evaded Hazel’s brutish attacks before outflanking him with acrobatics, striking at his face, neck, and joints before he had a chance to properly respond. Eventually bringing Hazel to his knees, Ozpin was only prevented from finishing him off when Leonardo Lionheart shot him in the back, forcing Qrow Branwen to rush in to protect him. While it could be argued that this victory was brought about through superior speed, especially against Hazel’s bulk, it can just as easily be argued that Hazel’s brute strength was the only thing that enabled him to contend with his older and easily more skilled opponent. As far as Ozpin’s duel with Cinder at Beacon is concerned, Ozpin again held a solid advantage over the Fall Maiden. Clearly able to contend with her varied weapon proficiencies, he forced her to give ground with his refined and focused offensive and countered with swift reposts, swatting her flurry of glass shards aside like bothersome flies before putting her on the receiving end of a machine gun poking spree. Cinder ultimately resorted to unleashing her Maiden powers to attack the headmaster, and while Ozpin’s magic barrier was ultimately unable to save his life, the fact that Cinder had to resort to such extreme measures is a strong indicator that she could not overcome Ozpin in battle. While it is unclear who was in control of Oscar’s body during Team JNR’s ambush of James Ironwood, I do feel that Ozpin would have, at the absolute bare minimum, been able to pressure the General in open battle, and even defeat him as he did with Hazel.

RANKING: Tier 1, Complete Mastery

Already a distinguished warrior before he was cursed and having continued to live and train throughout his numerous incarnations, Ozpin, by his nature, has accumulated more training and combat experience than any normal warrior could possibly obtain. His fighting technique has proven versatile enough to engage a wide array of opponents, while also being refined to an unprecedented mastery. Even when operating in a new body, he still proved himself to expertly leverage his incredible talents. While not infallible as a tactician and strategist, he was nonetheless cunning and intelligent, knowing how to operate among friend and foe alike to achieve his goals and undercut his enemies. Further proving his ranking is that he has engaged several of the most devastating combatants in the current setting, and the best they could hope to do was contend. Ozpin has never been beaten in melee combat, his death at the hands of Cinder owing to her overwhelming magical power, not martial skill.

SPECIAL

Before the modern world of Remnant came to be, the first age of humanity possessed the ability to utilize magic, a blessing of the Brother Gods. Sorcery was commonplace in this time, and while the warrior Ozma’s exact standing in relation to his peers is unconfirmed, he was unquestionably a prodigal talent, seen when he single-handedly overcame the army of Salem’s father before besting the king himself in a wizards’ duel. However, after Salem’s attempted rebellion against the Gods, the brothers wiped their slate clean and destroyed their first humanity, the only survivors of this being Salem herself, cursed with immortality, and Ozma following his resurrection into the new world. With the current humanity incapable of accessing the otherworldly abilities of their precursors, Ozma and Salem were left in a vacuum, standing as two of, if not the, most powerful beings in the setting by default. For the purposes of this analysis, I will be taking all of the demonstrations of Ozma’s incarnations into account, not just the ones he specifically is using. Despite my assertions above that Ozpin’s physical and martial abilities while controlling Oscar are not fully accurate gauges for Ozpin himself, transferring into a new body has never been shown to have any impact on the ability to wield magic. As such, the feats and demonstrations of Oscar, the King of Vale, the Wizard and others can be carried over to all timelines. Magic has consistently appeared as an independent, virtually limitless energy source that its wielders, casually called upon even when the user’s Aura has broken. The powers offered by magic in the RWBY setting are quite varied, ranging from clairvoyance and long-distance communication to control over the elements or weather to various forms of manipulating energy. For his part, Ozpin has demonstrated the ability to unleash concentrated blasts of green energy as a long-range projectile, channeling his power through his scepter and later the Long Memory (more on that later). Alternatively, he could focus this power into powerful energy barriers to shield himself from injury, this ability being one of his favorite tactics. While the shield did fail against Cinder’s firestorm at Beacon, this is no sign of weakness given the godly power of the Fall Maiden. Additionally, he has demonstrated powers of personal levitation, likely developing this ability to enhance his already astounding agility in battle. While this is mere speculation on my part, I believe that the devastating weather conditions that contributed to the meatgrinding Vacuo campaign of the Great War was not simply Vacuo’s unpredictable climate but a consequence of magical influence on the battle, which could in turn be directly linked to Ozpin as the Warrior King was personally involved in that battle.

Aside from his direct combative powers, Ozpin’s most notable use of his magic was ironically the powers he surrendered. Over the course of his life, Ozpin has granted magical abilities to several his followers and allies, either as payment for services rendered or as a gifted tool for his agents to improve their performance. Following their kindness and companionship in the midst of one of his more depressing lives, Ozpin, then an unnamed hermit wizard, sacrificed parts of his own power to four young women to create the four Maidens. While I don’t usually like following A>B>C logic, I do find it reasonable to assume that Ozpin is comparable the powers and magnitude of the Maidens given how powerful he remains despite this relinquishing. Ozpin could also grant power on a smaller scale, as seen when he used what he described as a minimal amount of power to grant the Branwen twins the ability to shape-shift into birds. As remarkable as this ability is, however, it is also the source of Ozpin’s greatest limitation as an ethereal warrior. The amount of power needed to grant magical abilities to others took a significant toll on his own energy reserves, reducing the amount of power he could personally bring to bear. This was most clearly demonstrated in his offensive power. In his first incarnation, Ozpin was able to match and briefly overcome Salem with his energy beams, matching her strength with his own and his defeat likely owing more to Salem’s wrathful aggression and his own concern for the safety of their daughters. However, when Oscar unleashed his power on the Monstra during the Battle of Atlas, Salem was staggered but unhurt despite suffering a direct hit, and he was quickly overpowered in turn. Additionally, Ozpin claimed that his power was already dwindling, and though it has not been established why this is happening, it does indicate that his abilities may continue to atrophy as time continues. Fortunately, this decay has not reached a point where his powers are unapplicable in battle, and he did develop a significant countermeasure in the form of his weapon. Aside from being a bludgeoning tool, the Long Memory was also a magical artifact blessed with the ability to absorb kinetic energy, building up power with every blow. By pressing the handle on the hilt, the wielder could release this power into blasts of golden energy capable of sowing massive destruction. It was this ability that Oscar used to survive his fall from the Atlas vault, and later to unleash a surge powerful enough to obliterate the Monstra (which I’d like to point out was several miles across, weighed hundreds of thousands of tons at minimum, AND was imbedded with giant gravity Dust crystals) with an explosion that could be seen across all of Atlas…

...holy shit.

Already a distinguished spellcasting fighter during the first human age, Ozpin truly grew to the height of his abilities over his numerous lifetimes training and fighting with them, mastering his powers to a degree that few in his own time would have even come close to replicating. When he brings out the magic, it is in a powerful, focused spell meant to achieve only what he sets out to do, be it protecting himself from immediate harm or decisively disabling the immediate threat. He capitalizes fully on his innate abilities while also working within and around his few limitations, the building of the Long Memory easily being the greatest example of Ozpin compensating for his long-term handicaps. This standing is even more pronounced in the modern day due to Ozpin effectively functioning in a vacuum; Any limitations Ozpin may have as a spellcaster are functionally irrelevant in 99.9% of potential conflicts because he’s so overpowered that his weaknesses almost never come up. However, despite possessing tremendous destructive power at his fingertips, Ozpin rarely unleashed his abilities in live combat, both out of the need to conceal the war with Salem from the broader public and out of a conscious restraint in using up what remained of his power. Due to these factors, Ozpin only cut loose with his magic when he absolutely needed to, most obviously when confronted by the few other magic beings in his time, up to and including Salem herself. While extremely skilled with his magic and able to call upon it for tactical advantage, Ozpin’s powers were more often than not treated as a trump card, bringing down the hammer with extreme and unconventional powers that most opponents simply didn’t know how to combat. Against opponents who had a snowflake’s chance in hell of contending with his raw power, Ozpin relied almost exclusively on physical combat rather than expending his energies against an inferior target. On one hand, this restrained approach meant that Ozpin ran the risk of failing to make full and effective use of his powers, allowing battles to drag out for much longer than they would really need to and giving lesser opponents like Hazel plenty of opportunities to kill him before he wised up. On the other hand, Ozpin always has the option of cutting loose, and when he does use his magic, the results are absolutely devastating.

RANKING: Tier 1, Dominating Combat

This placement really should require no explanation. As part of a race with innate magical powers that transcend the magnitude and abilities of any conventional Semblance or application of Dust, Ozpin is undeniably one of the most powerful beings, not just of the current world of Remnant, but of the planet’s history as a whole. He balances out between standard offensive and defensive abilities and radical arcane powers that provide him with a great deal of flexibility in various combat situations, while his sheer destructive power is astonishing. He is by no means flawless; his restraint in using his magic proactively does limit his ability to integrate his powers into his martial sequences, while his performances against Cinder and Salem prove that he can’t overwhelm everybody. But at the end of the day, the number of people who could realistically challenge Ozpin’s power, even at this diminished state, is so pathetically small that it rarely comes up. Simply put, Ozpin used his special abilities like a tactical nuke, and if he is ever forced to draw out his full might, woe betide whoever stand in his way.

OVERALL RANKING: TIER 1, SUPER HUNTSMAN

With his overall combat performance determined by his martial skills and special abilities, Ozpin serves as a quintessential example of a Super Huntsman, undeniably one of the most advanced and powerful characters in the whole RWBY franchise. Even with his full potential being diminished by his advanced age and deteriorating magic, this degradation was not nearly enough to detract from his combative effectiveness at the time of his death. His strong athleticism allows him to continue his exceptional performance even against younger and stronger adversaries, he is an unparalleled martial artist with thousands of years of combat experience and training under his belt, stands as both a masterful grand scale strategist and flexible on the ground operator, and he wields god-like magical power that he can express both offensively and defensively to an unprecedented degree reinforced by one of the most dangerous hand-held weapons ever developed. Appropriate for the one who conceived the idea of the academies in the first place, Ozpin was the single greatest Huntsman warrior of his day, matching and exceeding all of his peers in some way while also setting the mold for what virtually every Huntsman and Huntress at the time strove to be.

Still, one must not mistake mastery for perfection or invincibility. Ozpin’s track record and accolades are testaments to his talents and prowess, but they are also evidence that he has not faced a true equal in years. As dangerous a fighter as he was, Hazel Rainart was ultimately no match for the headmaster even in an undertrained body, while Cinder Fall’s raw talent merely allowed her to contend, and she would have undoubtedly lost without the complete Maiden power. Most of the prominent combatants of the current setting are/were members of Ozpin’s own inner circle, and those who weren’t gave him a wide berth.

Contained both physically and mentally in an ivory tower, Ozpin’s isolation from the meatgrinder of hard combat mirrored his difficulties in maintaining the trust of his subordinates. So many instances of betrayal and failure have conditioned him to keep things far closer to the chest than appropriate, ironically turning Ozpin into a victim of the very power he cautioned Oscar against; fear. This fear of trusting others too much can also be seen in his fear of exposing all of his secrets and power, keeping his most valuable assets in reserve for much longer than he needs to. Fortunately, Ozpin has avoided a common pitfall of immortals in that, while he has grown secretive and accustomed to half-truths, he is neither stagnant nor truly cynical. The influence of Ruby Rose and her friends allowed the wizard to regain a spark of hope and trust, even amid arguably the darkest hour of the whole war with Salem. While we may never know how this would have influenced him prior to his merging with Oscar, it is fair to say that Ozpin, in all his forms, is one who can still learn and grow even after an obscenely long life and the most disastrous of failures. Ozpin himself may not be able to defeat Salem per Jinn’s claims, but his legacy of resistance can and will live on in the Huntsmen and Huntresses he has helped to guide. After all, as a fellow green-themed ancient master once said,

“Pass on what you have learned. Strength, mastery. But weakness, folly, failure also. Yes, failure most of all. The greatest teacher, failure is. […] We are what they grow beyond. That is the true burden of all masters.”

*originally posted on RoosterTeeth Community page on 05-10-22*

* images taken from RWBY Wiki*

RWBY Combat Analysis

#rwby #rwby combat analysis #ozpin #ozma #rwby ozpin #ozpin's inner circle #beacon academy #advanced human fitness #complete mastery #dominating combat

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itsclydebitches · 2 years ago

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I'm honestly curious as to what Salem was referring to in the first volume when she said, "there will be no victory in strength" - alluding to all the times Ozpin has failed to defeat her. Interestingly, Salem never directly strongarms her followers into working for her - violence only comes in when they disobey her (Cinder) or she has her followers do it for her. Meanwhile every conflict the heroes face is solved with violence with the exception of heel-turned antagonists who are either narratively disposed of (Ilia + Raven), added to the cast-bloat of 20+ onscreen characters (Emerald + Aceops) or killed off (Hazel), thus not having to reconcile with new dynamics that aren't "everyone is best friends, all the time".

In some respects it feels like a reversal of the standard moral we would expect from a tale like RWBY. (Though, as I always want to stress, not an intentional reversal.) Meaning, most shonen-esque, fairy tale-esque, young protagonists fight some evil force-esque stories present the message that it's not their literal power that saves the day, but rather the Power of Friendship/Love/Purity/Whatever. Or, more accurately, one leads into another. By embracing the emotion that the story wants to uphold as significant, they receive their power up as a cosmic reward (like going Super Saiyan over the love of a friend), or are otherwise rewarded with the solution to their difficulty (like the Guardians of the Galaxy crew splitting the power of the infinity stone). The in-world universe looks at the hero who has Behaved In The Morally Correct Way--which often includes overtly rejecting power--and says, "Here, have a lot of power anyway as a treat. You've proven that you deserve it." Something, something the best leaders don't want to be leaders (insert Ruby's Beacon arc here) and similarly, the people to have a ton of power are those who don't inherently want to be powerful because now there's little chance that they'll misuse it. And for a hot second RWBY went in that direction with a "simple soul" who doesn't want to be the "bees knees" but does want to "help people."

Problem is--as you say--Ruby and the group just solve all of their conflicts with violence. Not in a Power of Friendship/Love way, but ordinary, prodigy, punch-them-until-they-stop-moving violence. Particularly in the later volumes. Ruby doesn't defeat Cordovin with a power-up because a teammate was injured in the fight and she now wants to protect them, they just shoot at her until a massive grimm shows up to finish the job. They don't defeat the Ace Ops with the Power of Teamwork, they all split into separate rooms and we're told they're simply more talented than these professionals, period. Blake doesn't find the strength to defend herself by thinking about Ruby, she begs Ruby to wake and do the work for her. Jaune doesn't save Penny by unlocking some upgraded semblance at a crucial moment out of a love for her, he slits her throat. The group doesn't defeat Cinder in Volume 8 at all. There's no strategy anymore, or success tied to Love--and I do use the word "anymore" deliberately. Because for a long time RWBY's saving grace (no matter its other flaws) were the Silver Eyes: a straightforward ability Powered By Love that was at the heart of our hero's development. Ruby sees Pyrrha die and it activates. She sees Blake in great danger and it activates. Even in Volume 6 when it was getting very flimsy with memories of decorating the dorm and what-not, at least it still revolved around the concept of a found family, even if it was retconning the idea of mortal peril being a trigger. It still mostly worked.

Now though, Ruby simply decides that the fight is over and disintegrates the Hound--no emotion necessary--and she doesn't react at all when her sister is murdered. We lost the one aspect of the show that still revolved around the Power of Friendship/Love.

Which finally brings us back to Salem's opening speech. "There will be no victory in strength." AKA, the standard moral. You can't defeat me by training, learning fancy techniques, or even being a prodigy. At least, you can't wield those things on their own. All the straight-forward power in the world isn't going to bring me down. Her immortality should be a metaphor for that message, wherein the cast learns the thematic lesson of upholding the Power and Love by figuring out how to circumvent the practical problem of an enemy that can't die. This setup works. It's tried and true and tested!!

But than, as said, RWBY swerved hard. Now they're saying that strength is enough. Strength is the ultimate weapon. How do you deal with a traumatized ally? You punch him and demand that he return for more violence. How do you convince an abused brother to help you? Threaten him with your sword. How do you beat the best team in Atlas, possibly the world? By just being more powerful than them, duh.

How do you defeat Salem?

By fighting her. That's the closest the group gets to offering Ironwood a "solution" to their problem: we'll stay here and fight her. How is that going to work given the whole immortality thing? They don't know. They don't care. There's absolutely no discussion about the issue, yet the protagonists continue to push the message that the best--the only--solution is to stand your ground, sharpen your weapons, and find a way to punch the problem into submission. Oh, RWBY still appears very Power of Friendship-y with all the speeches about how they have to work together, but post Volume 4-ish the writing hasn't followed up on that message.

RWBY said, "There will be no victory in strength" and then halfway through its run went, "Never mind, strength is awesome. Why would we write a story about strategy, creativity, and the importance of strong bonds when our heroes can just be More Powerful than the enemy? It's so much simpler to write a story where they're inherently as talented as the plot needs and they've all read the script, so they know they'll win in the end--that's their reasoning and justification. So much better than writing that complicated metaphor."

You know, I'm thinking now about Ironwood's final moments as he reached for his gun and then dropped his hand. Besides the fact that it reads as more sympathetically tragic to me than, I suspect, the pathetic angle RT was going for, within this framework it really reflects his whole philosophy. In a "normal" Power of Love story, there might be something to the idea that he isn't trying hard enough; that unlike our protagonists who Persevere, Ironwood demonstrates a pronounced weakness in giving up. But since the story has established quite clearly that conventional violence will not win this fight--AKA, a gun--it reads more like a tragic wisdom. In his final moments he's not giving up because he can't fight anymore (I mean, whatever else we might say about the guy, he's incredibly determined and resilient), but because he understands that the only course now available to him is useless. From the moment Oscar told him the truth, Ironwood has been working within the realities of their situation. It led him to doing horrific things in the name of finding a lesser evil, but it's narratively significant that he (and Ozpin) is one of the only characters who truly accepts the problem of Salem's immortality and doesn't bow out of the fight (like Raven). He understands that picking up a gun and shooting this being is the height of stupidity. It's a waste of time, of energy, of focus. It might be comforting to pretend that their weapons are still a viable option, but he's not going to spend his last slice of life chasing a delusion. It won't work.

Meanwhile, or protagonists are still ignoring this problem 99% of the time and the other 1% they're going, "Hmm... but what if we tried brute strength 🤔?"

#rwde #rwby #mymetas

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spectralscathath · 9 months ago

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What would the cast of Antares have as their Epithets if they were transported to the world of Epithet Erased? It doesn't have to be associated with their semblance. It can be a new power entirely.

ooo this one is fun! I ended up grabbing a lot of characters because honestly the dynamic is entirely up to interpretation, so I'm just going to give the characters and their epithets, I think!

Also on a lot of these, I actually decided by just rolling random word generators a whole bunch of times until something jumped out as interesting or distinctive to tie to a character, I'll be honest. It made it a lot more fun, having that randomised element rather than specifically worrying about tying things in. A lot of these are based really on vibes, or on the fun that could come from the secondary meanings of words, or how the powers could work.

RWBY Ruby Rose: Starjump Weiss Schnee: Chromatic Blake Belladonna: Bombshell Yang Xiao Long: Heart

JNPR Jaune Arc: Contraindiction Nora Valkyrie: Berserker Pyrrha Nikos: Arrow Lie Ren: Oilslick

STRQ Summer Rose: Ghostwriter Taiyang Xiao Long: Cook Raven Branwen: Stagehand Qrow Branwen: Undertaker

WTCH Salem: Fossil Arthur Watts: Diagram Tyrian Callows: Carnival Cinder Fall: Mundie Hazel Rainart: Salt

ASSORTED #1 Sun Wukong: Spooky Emerald Sustrai: Wish Mercury Black: Doppler Adam Taurus: Beartrap Roman Torchwick: Charm Neopolitan: Lovebug Vernal: Obnubilate

FANCIV Flynt Coal: Cool Arslan Altan: Shoelace Neon Katt: Poptart Ciel Soleil: Binoculars Iris Marilla: Dirge Velvet Scarlatina: Snapshot

ACE OPS Clover Ebi: Champion Elm Ederne: Hazelnut Vine Zeki: Herpetology Harriet Bree: Orchid Kelpie Tortuga: Snail Marrow Amin: Paint

ASSORTED #2 Penny Polendina: Helpful Polly: Fairy Oscar Pine: Staircase Whitley Schnee: Soap Winter Schnee: Vampire Ilia Regnbue: Tidepool Robyn Hill: Vessel Sienna Khan: Queen Shion Zaiden: Net

OZLUMINATI Ozpin: Mundie Glynda Goodwitch: Casette Bartholomew Oobleck: Rhyme Leonardo Lionheart: Goldleaf Yoruhime Taniguchi: Darkness James Ironwood: Quasar Yvainne Stellaria: Gloss Theodore Gale: Hound Morgan Thresher: Piracy Ozma: Cleric

#rwby #scorruby au #asks #yes these are all antares characters and no you don't get more context atm #Salem's is probably my favourite for the mental image of a Super Move called 'T-Rex Blast'#haha my au outlives rwby so long roosterteeth rest in pieces

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zerm2v0hg · 9 months ago

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youtube

Finally got around to watching Unicorn of War's RWBY Volume 8 two-part video rewrite a few days ago, and I strongly recommend it for anyone who wants a Better Version of V8, or even for anyone who didn't hate V8 but just wants a juicy RWBY story. (And be sure to give the Pt 1 vid above and the Pt 2 vid on YT a Like on YT to support the maker.)

Highlights include but are not limited to: multiple planned action sequences aplenty, focus on the characters we want focus on, the heroes actually being complex people and heroes trying their best instead of being Holier Than Thou narcissistic Millstones, the RWBY/JNR-vs.-Ironwood conflict over how to save Atlas being Grey-and-Gray Morality with Ironwood keeping his marbles instead of just "RWBY yay Ironwood boo," Salem actually being terrifying and capable, Hazel being pitiable instead of being a brute who beats a kid to a pulp, the titular heroines actually facing their bad guys down themselves, Cinder getting her ass burned again, Bumbleby working to form a healthier dynamic, another side of Penny emerging, Ciel and other members of the bloated cast returning, and some other spoiler-y positives.

I'm not without some criticisms against parts of it, like how it handles the "Vacuo evacuation" plan, but all in all, this is a very juicy RWBY story which is worth checking out.

#fanfiction #rwby rewrite #rwby #rwde #youtube #video #Youtube

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kitkatopinions · 1 year ago

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I think if Raven was the one who raised Yang, she'd probably train and push the latter to her utmost limit and exhaustion every day to make sure she's "strong enough to survive in this world". Yang would be a completely different, colder person from what we know. For me it'd be interesting to see the dynamic and drama between that Yang and Ruby who was raised without Yang.

I love the concept of Yang raised by Raven! In fact, I just love the concept of RWBY kid hero characters raised by villains and RWBY kid villain characters raised by 'good guys' in general.

Yang being raised by Raven is great! Blake running away from home and getting picked up by Cinder and manipulated into joining her is also great. Salem recruiting and raising up Pyrrha from an early age and setting her to compete against Cinder for the maiden powers is such a good concept for me. Toddler Ruby having run away when she and Yang got attacked by Grimm as kids and her being found and taken in by Roman and Neo is also good. Ren and Nora getting picked up and taken in by Hazel is also super fun as a concept. Weiss and Whitley getting kidnapped in their early years by Watts who is trying to experiment with the Schnee family semblance. Watts stealing Penny before she could be switched on for the first time and raising her as his own daughter. Sun being singled out by Lionheart as someone that Cinder, Emerald, and Mercury should coerce into helping them to sell the 'they're from Mistral' story. Idk, I just think it's so fun imagining the good guy kids in the position of bad guy.

And what's even more fun is imagining them not liking or being happy in the villain lifestyle and getting rescued and redeemed... Alongside other villains that I care about, because I love redemption!

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abysskeeper · 2 years ago

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Thing is a two year time skips means once again Oscar gets development off screen that we don’t get to see. The reason why others see him as not important is that exact thing, we don’t get to see him, not as much as everyone else.

“He’s not suppose to be the focus” is what I’ve seen fans say. Yeah okay but he still deserves at least some? And having a two year time skip just feel like a lazy way to develop Oscar without showing that development.

Sometimes I feel like that’s the reason why Oscar has little to no merch and why everyone else does. It’s cuz the writes don’t wanna be bothered with giving Oscar some screen time that’s not then overshadowed with everyone else and don’t see him important.

For me a two year time skip would only further that.

Hi Nonny! Let me start by saying...trust me, I totally get it. I'm the gal who condemned herself to (albeit very slowly) writing fanfic for the rest of the show's run because I heard "Her name...is Jinn" and went "Hm, let's examine how we got here" and never looked back. I've written my fair share of "missing canon" scenes because hey, if the writers won't do it for my boy, and fans want to ignore him, then it's free real estate.

I'll shove the rest under a read more because I got a little long winded.

I also want to clarify that just because I may or may not want to see that dynamic of years having passed (I do), I absolutely do not expect it to happen. Me wanting years before they return is basically my writer brain going "Imagine the angst!" and taking off with an idea. Especially the emotional Rosegarden potential on Oscar's end.

Logistically though, years doesn't make sense and I know it. We know Salem is launching her endgame and holding her off for that long seems improbable. It isn't impossible but...it is unlikely.

And it really doesn't make sense for the meta either. All of volume 9 was about Ruby coming to terms with the fact she is enough and she did her best, and a lot of the preceding questioning that led to her doubting herself was regarding the message sent to the rest of the world in volume 8. That end shot with RWBY+J finally reaching Vacuo and seeing all of the kingdoms there defending it is meant to show a direct result of that message and be a real world affirmation that Ruby is enough. She did enough, the message got out, the world responded to her. Having it be years since their fall into the Ever After negates that point, because suddenly the other kingdoms are there defending Vacuo because they have to with the war against Salem inevitably ramping up during that time. I don't think the writers are going for that.

That said however, I do hope (and believe) it will be a few months. Maybe upwards of 6 if they're feeling ballsy. Anything less than a month, to me, would sort of have the inverse effect of what you're rightly pointing out here. Volumes 7 and 8 were just as much a show at Ruby's character regression as they were for Ren, Nora, and Oscar's character progressions. Ren and Nora didn't need the Ever After because they came to those realizations about themselves on their own terms through volume 7, and then definitely into volume 8. They weren't complete developments of course, they were steps of progress, but I don't expect Ruby or Jaune to be at their end stages either.

And, I don't know, maybe I misread it, but Oscar had major plot and character movement in volume 8, and it just screamed at me that it was all about his immense potential and capability to step in as a leader himself. Not as Oz (Salem's denial of him being Oz is direct proof of that) but as Oscar himself (choosing to play the game and turn some of Salem's people; choosing to trust Hazel; and most importantly, not giving up on those plans as Oz advised him to do). I think bringing RWBY+J (especially team leaders Ruby and Jaune, the two he has looked up to and relied on the most) back too soon to Vacuo would rob him of that opportunity to be in a role he is clearly meant to take and that it would do a disservice to the developments he did make in volume 8.

And that would be...the first time actually...where I don't think I would mind not seeing all of that development happen on screen for Oscar? In part because we already saw the starting stages of it in volume 8, and in part because there is something to be said about exploring character development after it's happened already. If done well (and I do continue to have faith in CRWBY, a rare sentiment I know), it can be a lot of fun. I don't need to see the moment where Oscar decides to step up and help people when all evidence and his prior actions point to him making that decision without hesitation. What I do want to see is what comes after it, how he handles taking on that mantle and how he handles all of the struggles that come with it (not to mention mourning losing 5 of his friends in one go...based on a plan he helped create); and you need time for all that to set in. Maybe years is too long...but months is not.

And this is all without considering the Merge because I do not believe the Merge will happen (even though I wrote fic for that too), and even if it does...it won't happen the way FNDM anticipates (the way FNDM anticipates goes directly against what we saw Jinn portray). Overall though, I don't really bother myself with what fans say...mostly because I like to retain my sanity. I know we've had issues with it in the past (the fact we didn't get a single scene in v6 after he went "missing" still haunts me), but volumes 7-8 really seemed to be setting up and showing that the writers view Oscar as a main character. His brief "appearance" in volume 9, if you will, I think only further solidified that point. So I'm not overly concerned with CRWBY not giving him screen time, I'm just hoping that screen time is an accurate representation and continuation of what we saw in volume 8.

Tl;dr I don't disagree with you, Nonny, and I don't actually think we're getting a time skip of years (but it does make writer brain go brrrr). That said, having no time pass at all I think would be just as big of a disservice to team Vacuo, and especially to Oscar. There's a middle there that I'm putting faith in CRWBY threading the needle of.

And, oh yeah. Give us more Oscar merch. I do just...wholeheartedly agree there.

#don't mind me #rwby #rwby9 #oscar pine #if you are who I think you are nonny then yeah...I had the same knee jerk reaction as you posted yesterday #and then I thought on it more and went...oh yeah I guess I should have some faith #and just have some fun playing in the meanwhile #and if you're not then just disregard those tags but know you are not the only person to have this concern

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