#dune novel

[reallyunluckyrunaway]

Hollywood be like:

[dreadbirate]

i want to be very clear that i dont really mean this to disparage Dune, but just as a way to unpack why its story functions the way it does.

You can tell that Frank Herbert was a conservative, not a religious one to be sure, but its there. The idea that suffering will make you stronger and more capable inherently, that sort of "weak men create hard times, hard times make strong men etc etc" energy. Theres an idea that the Jihad is inevitable, and at a certain point it is, but really Paul creates all of the circumstances of it in trying to prevent it, because he thinks its inevitable before it is. I think this might just be Paul rationalizing how every step hes taken has been building towards this, but then again his future seeing powers are real, so Herbet might have intended it to be the truth. However, despite some of the...misleading ideas about human nature, it doesnt slip into Fascism, it doesnt validate Paul or his Jihad, it still recognizes these as terrible things which should be prevented. Paul is a monster of his own making, and he has forged a nucleus which will cause all the death he once wanted to prevent, he almost seems to embrace it gladly at the end, not regretfully.

[cloud3francois]

Feyd-Rautha: A Fraud?

[ghostwithstrawberries]

Made this bookmark for my boyfriend for this year’s Valentine’s Day

I’m not used to painting with watercolor, but I think it turned out alright

Scale: 2 x 6 inches

-SCB

[wowbright]

I recently read Dune. It was good enough that I wanted to continue the series, despite that odd time jump toward the end of the book.

Then I started Dune Messiah and it's like ... Wait. The author skipped the actual plot I thought the first book was leading up to (in which our young protagonist leads his adopted people into an interstellar war) and instead jumps forward 12 years to ... provide transcripts of secret political meetings and spies making plots that are very confusing given that we don't know what happened in the last 12 years?

Where the hell is a story? What is going on here?

Should I just skip the rest of the series?

(This question is not about the movies. It is about the books.)

[maaruin]

If Dune (the novel) is a warning against the concept of a hero, then making the Harkonnens cartoonishly evil sort of makes sense. Show that even the fight against such an evil foe can turn you into something worse.

However, this wasn't my impression when I read the book. I thought the point was that the Empire was stagnant, in desperate need for change, but its institutions weren't capable of producing that change. Only when a peripheral force (the Fremen) were pushed into the center did change finally become possible.

Well, if that was the point of Dune, then it would have made more sense if the Harkonnens weren't evil, but instead morally the same as the Atreides. Feyd could have been the best what the old system had produced, but unable to keep up with Paul, who has been taught and changed by Arrakis, outside the system.

[heathenkings]

thoughts as I read through Dune:

- the reason the 1984 movie has a weird amount of internal dialogue from every character is because the novel has a weird amount of internal dialogue from every character

- Herbert emphasizes Gurney's ugliness because if he were conventionally attractive, he would be far too powerful

- it reads very easily in my opinion?? very pleased, but maybe watching the movies first helped out

- how many more times does Paul need to refer to his situation as "terrible purpose" before people realize he DOESNT WANT THIS and therefore it does NOT COUNT AS A "WHITE SAVIOR" STORY

will continue as I read

[eros-thanatos89]

some thoughts on Dune

It's 5 AM and I can't get back to sleep, so clearly it's time to ramble about Dune on the internet.

I recently rewatched part one of Villeneuve's movies and then saw part 2 in theaters this week.

I've seen the David Lynch Dune a couple times in the past few years, mostly because I wanted to see the Villeneuve. I love Lynch, but his adaptation is wild--very fun, but it feels like a fever dream, and he has spoken openly about how the studio fought him and the process of making the film was awful for him. It's also such a dense source material, that it's so hard to fit into one two hour movie. Hence, the last 45 minutes try to cover major plot points and it feels rushed and scattered.

So the new Villeneuve adaptations have more time to really introduce to Dune's world of interplanetary Empire, the warring houses and factions under the Emperor, and the planet of Arrakis which is coveted by the Empire for its precious resource of Spice--and therefore exploited and oppressed.

I didn't really catch the very clear commentary on imperialism and extractive capitalism until I saw part 1 of Villeneuve's Dune (because I was just so bewildered by the fun fever dream quality of the Lynch movie). But it's so clear--especially that scene where the Atreides first arrive on Arrakis and leave their ship with their flags flying and an honor guard playing bagpipes and Duke Leto and Paul in ceremonial Caladan attire while Lady Jessica has donned traditional Arrakian clothing. It's so clearly an intentional parallel to the British Empire in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA).

What's wonderful about Dune 2 is now that the stage is set, we really get to dive into the world of Arrakis through the lens of its indigenous population, the Fremen.

A friend and I binged through the SyFy Dune miniseries between part 1 and the release of part 2. And something that has been pointed out in video essays, and was very striking and meaningful to me, is that the novel and every adaptation show us Arrakis through the eyes of Paul Atreides, Princess Irulan, and other outworlders. Villeneuve's Dune is the first adaptation to open with a quote from a Fremen, Chani, who says "My planet Arrakis so beautiful when the sun is low..." in the opening shot of part 1, as the camera pans over a sea of sand dunes, glimmering in the evening light. It really sets the tone for both of the new films: Dune is Arrakis' story; it's the Fremen's story.

And in part 2, we get to watch Paul transform personally and reach mystical, messianic superhuman status (against his own will and intuition) but just as importantly we watch him integrate himself into Fremen culture and learn to fall in love with the culture, language, and ways of the Fremen, as well as falling in love with Chani. It becomes her story as much as his (FINALLY an adaptation where we get to see Chani really become an interesting character in her own right! I don't really remember her from the miniseries; she has an active role, but clearly didn't really stand out to me. And she barely has any lines in the Lynch movie).

Part 2 lets us see the anti-colonial struggle for independence and autonomy and protection of the planet and native culture from the perspective of its native people, and also the harm of outside cultures like the Bene Gesserit co-opting and exploiting the desire for freedom and independence to spread religious zealotry.

The debates between Chani, Stilgar, Lady Jessica, and Paul regarding the messianic prophecy and the counterpoint that the Fremen should save themselves is so compelling and rich!

I was reminded throughout the film of the story (and movie) of Laurence of Arabia. Which I now want to rewatch. In interviews Villeneuve pointed to the film as a direct cinematic influence on not just Dune but his entire process as a film maker. And Frank Herbert cited the real events of Laurence's time with Arabic Uprising against the Ottoman Empire in WW1 as a direct influence on the first novel in the Dune series.

A couple friends and I all started listening to the audiobook recently and have started an accidental book club. I really love the prose and the richness of the world Herbert creates and his focus on the environment and ecology of the planet Arrakis as well as the political intrigues and critique on colonialism and extractive capitalism.

So the other day I was curious about the social context of the novel and other inspirations Herbert may have had, so I consulted my favorite scholarly journal Wikipedia (as the hilarious hosts of the podcast the Bechdel Cast call it. If you like movies, intersectional feminism, and funny people, give it a listen. It's so fun!) and was quite surprised that one of the major influences that inspired the novel (published in 1965) was that in the 1960s that state of Oregon in the USA where Herbert was living was having a crisis of sand dunes shifting and moving, due to the native grasses that anchored them dying out. Herbert had several Native American friends who grew up on reservations in Oregon who were actively writing about ecology and environmental protection and who were activists. He was inspired by the notion of these sand dunes potentially swallowing up whole cities and the crisis of an environment becoming uninhabitable due to human destruction of the environment.

I was fascinated to learn that Dune is regarded as one of the early examples of novels tackling themes of climate change and ecology and environmental protection, along with Silent Spring. (Thanks Wikipedia!)

Anyhow, this is a really long and rambling post so I'll wrap up. But I encourage anyone who's interested in really rich, complex sci-fi or fantasy which grapples with real-world issues like colonialism, capitalism, and the environment as well as the hero's journey to give Dune a watch and/or read. It's such a rich world! And the new films are a stunning sensory experience! The aesthetics alone are captivating. Good shit.

[the1entirecircus]

Upon my reading of the first sentences of Dune, I was immediately humbled as a writer. For the first time in my life, I felt like I was below amateur. I've read other literary novels like Jurassic Park, The Things they Carried, The History of Love, etcetera, and I never felt...so disturbed by how amazed I was until now. I've been trying to write the same three books for nearly five years now. School mostly got in the way, but it was also how I found myself reading the stories I wrote. Each sentence didn't feel right. Dialogue was the only thing that I felt like I had mastered when writing these stories. I find myself jealous from how well paced and written the first 20 pages of Dune is. I think what intrigues me the most is that it tells me the lore. Or rather, hints at the bigger picture.

Keep in mind I just got my copy of Dune today. I hope you cringed at my reaction/hj

[iwillreadyourbook]

🌌 Exploring the Epic World of Dune by Frank Herbert 🌌

Today, let’s dive into the intricate and mesmerizing universe of Dune by Frank Herbert. This science fiction masterpiece is more than just a tale of politics and power; it's a richly woven tapestry of ecology, religion, and human ambition.

Why Dune is a Must-Read:

Complex Characters: From the enigmatic Paul Atreides to the fierce Fremen, each character is deeply developed and integral to the plot.

Intricate World-Building: Herbert’s creation of the desert planet Arrakis, with its unique ecosystem and spice economy, is nothing short of brilliant.

Themes of Power and Corruption: The struggle for control over the spice melange mirrors real-world issues of resource scarcity and political intrigue.

Philosophical Depth: Dune challenges readers to think about destiny, leadership, and the human condition in profound ways.

Whether you're a seasoned sci-fi aficionado or new to the genre, Dune offers an unforgettable journey that will leave you pondering long after you've turned the last page.

Have you read Dune?

[shipperoffanonships]

One of the WTF moves in Dune films, personally.

[dreadbirate]

its so very funny how in the book Paul was pretty much setting all the messiah stuff up himself despite constantly saying and thinking thoughts about being a reluctant messiah, and his mom was scared by it, and then in the movie its the reverse opposite (as in he acts reluctant instead of thinking and doing everything possible to advance the legend) so their characters in that aspect are basically swapped in how most people think of them.

[windwardrose]

you're so right about how much the child annoyance comes out in dune!! At a certain point it became frustrating how firmly he avoided in any way having his children characters act like children, or even slightly childish. crazy

Look, weird kids are my vocation, my job, and my delight. I am a Weird Kid in all but age still. We were absolutely robbed of what there could have been with Alia and I will die on this hill

-

Alia's born and she stares too much. She watches people come and go and always knows where to look for things in the room. she has night terrors that leave her blinking her strange eyes into the dimness long after her tears have ceased. A little older and she has dreams that Jessica shares and sometimes Paul too, of blue water and endless flames, of planets she's never seen, of the sands parting for a worm, the skies filling with warships that haven't been seen for thousands of years.

Alia babbles in tones that belong to no language her Fremen nurse has ever heard, and reaches out her arms for the Reverend Mother to put herself skin to skin, calming that way and finding solace in Jessica's arms with the same heartbeat echoing in her ears that she has always remembered the rhythm of, since the first days when the light and the pictures came to her. when she pulls to stagger upright on Jessica's skirts she screams and cries at the indignity of unsteadiness and falling, when she fumbles her toys with fat soft baby fingers she frowns and tries again, and again, trying to get her body to understand what her memories somehow already tell her.

she loves auntie Chani, whose eyes are as blue as hers, as blue as the blazing sky and the water that she has never seen but still knows. she loves Brother, and when she can walk she finds him in the corridors on quiet days, and clings to his back and whispers lisan al gaib into his ears, and laughs and pulls his hair when he startles at her words. he holds meetings with the fedaykin with her on his hip sometimes. she watches the sketches of battlefield plans unfold with a thumb in her mouth, and points; sometimes this means Paul needs to rethink a stratagem, and sometimes it means Alia wants to see the rock he's using for a token, and rub it between her fingers and lick it so that it shines in the lamplight.

when little Leto is born Alia watches him for hours and hours, with wide sad eyes unblinking. she never wants to leave him alone. she never wants auntie Chani to leave him either, because he's in danger, she knows that he is. (if you ask her she can't remember why. something about men in bright armor.)

her pictures are far too complex for a child her age and she'll lay there on her stomach drawing for hours, re-sketching lines with her tongue at the side of her mouth, hand in a fist around her chunk of charcoal, shrieking if anyone tries to make her leave. she always wants more than she can do. heavier things to pick up, bigger projects than she can take on. she cries with shame when she fails or has to go to bed in the evening, and smacks her head in frustration when she can't get the words out, or falls back on languages that not even brother understands.

Jessica holds her when she's in a tantrum, and rocks her, and they talk without words, the two of them; and they walk together in those memories and dreams of so many generations, then, mother and daughter, till Alia sleeps and wakes again and scurries off to go help catch mice in the storerooms with the other children.

(the other children don't know what to do with her. she always tells such strange interminable stories with names they don't know, when she plays with dolls or pretends with them. she gets upset if you tell her she can't do something. she gets upset if she tries, because she says she can, and then she falls or forgets a step and gets angry. never at the others. always at herself.)

she knows how to use a knife, just like any child of the desert. when she needs one, in the end, tear-stained and silent in the shadow of her enemy, she has one to hand.

and when brother takes flight with his army into the great unknown of space, she recognizes the sight from somewhere behind her eyes, and sits cross-legged on the sandy ground till the dots of his ships are gone.

she is Saint Alia of the Knife and she is four years old and she holds a thousand years of memories, a hundred hundred stories within her, and she knows this is somehow still only the beginning.

(but for now, she wants her mother's arms around her, and the Arrakis sunrise above the ridgeline in the morning when she awakens.)

[tealduck]

Just finished Dune, this is my take away

[maaruin]

Ordered Dune: Messiah (in German Translation), we'll see if I agree with Herbert's take that Paul was bad/Heroes are dangerous.