#driftmark claim

[horizon-verizon]

TG LOVEEEEE using Vaemond as a gotcha against Rhaenyra and claim to support him but the gag is that his granddaughter will marry Rhaenyra’s son, becomes queen, her sons (so Vaemond’s great grandsons) became kings, her children are remembered in Westeros meanwhile the last living legitimate member of Aegon II’s line is murdered by her father’s supporter.

TG shoud be happy and support Daenaera as queen, at last, their favorite boy Vaemond was vindicated 😘

This is a great comeback, anon. Watch them still say that "that Vaemond has a line of kings from him doesn't change the fact that he was unjustly killed!"

Ok Mary, now you measure the worth of success by the person's ability to live out their lives as leaders? So Aegon didn't win anything, since he died by his own men's poisoning? Or now you can see how Rhaenyra's death was a sort of tragedy, since she couldn't rule as queen? I mean...if lineage doesn't matter at all when determining how "good" a person in this conflict or setting may have had?

Okay then, why are you so insistent about Jaehaera being the one to propagate the Targaryen line? Or Aemond?!

I'd also like to remind people of Tyland Lannister, who at point advocated for Aegon to kill Aegon the younger to end the threat from Rhaenyra's remaining supporters, yet still went on to sincerely serve Aegon III before he succumbed to the winter illlness at KL.

btw, Vaemond is Daenaera's father through a man called Daeron.

[ride-thedragon]

Black girls of ASOIAF.

Sarella Sand (half Summer Islander)

Bellegere Otherys (half Summer Islander)

Missandei of Naath (Naathi)

Chataya (Summer Islander)

Nettles the Dragonseed

Alayaya (Summer Islander)

Bellegere Otherys (descended from Summer Islanders)

[this-world-of-beautiful-monsters]

one of my pet peeves is any attempt in hotd fic to present the driftmark fight as uniquely the fault or evidence of evil in any particular kid/group of kids/color team, like-they were children socially programmed to look down on each other for being girls, bastards, and/or dragonless, were further influenced by their parents' intergenerational baggage, had their navigations of these hierarchies thrown off balance by various forms of extreme trauma, and THEN were given access to sharp objects and living nukes. somebody was going to get seriously hurt at some point, it was inevitable no matter who reacted to what stressor. then the only course of healing modeled by adults on either side of the conflict was bloody revenge, which only exacerbated the issue.

the whole point isn't pointing out extreme moral flaws in these children, it's that they're forced into increasingly violent situations before they can really develop any personalities at all and the adults in their lives are so marked by their own violent upbringings that instead of realizing "hey, our kids being taught to hate each other for the stupidest reasons imaginable resulted in one of them being partially blinded, we need to change how we interact with one another extremely fast before they end up dead" they double down. because hotd doesn't work as a story of good vs evil, despite fans (and show runners) attempting to frame it that way, it's the story of an incredibly sick social hierarchy's self-destruction via how it treats and mistreats its young.

[lunamond]

Rhaenyra‘s sons‘ illegitamcy is actually such a fascinating topic to discuss. Because on one side, yes, she should be allowed to have children with the partner of her chosing. But on the other side, the way she handles the situation, she manages to upset almost every cultural norm surrounding this issue, further alienating potential allies.

According to the social and cultural norms of their world, Rhaenyra and her sons are being valued as lesser for the circumstances of their birth. This a result of westerosi male primogeniture, which has to police woman sexuality in order to ensure that wealth and power get passed through the male family line.

Bastards born from the affairs of male lords are tolerated because they do not endanger the system of power, while male bastards especially are still marginalised (as seen with Jon) the father isn‘t subjected to any form of social scorn.

On the flip side, a noblewoman fathering a bastard is a direct threat to the system of male primogeniture. A woman will always know her biological children by the simple fact that she gave birth to them.

Men, however, don’t have this certainty. To ensure that their heirs are their own biological offspring they need complete insurence that their wives are soley sexually active with them, hence the policing of female sexuality and the obsession with female virginity.

This tactic is obviously not foolproof. A clever wife might still manage to have a secret affair and pass off another man‘s child as her husband's. This anxiety and continued incertainty is reflected in the social censure woman receive for acting as sexual beings and the severe social and legal punishment a wife who has been judged as unfaithful can face.

What makes Rhaenyra‘s position unique, however, is the fact that she is Viserys‘ heir.

So if the crown is to pass down from Viserys to Rheanyra and through her to her own heirs, why does Jace‘s legitamacy even factor into all this? Some people in the fandom make that argument: If Rheanyra inherits in her own right, why does it matter who fathers her children?

The problem with this is that even the Lords can‘t declare their bastard heir without expressed permission from the king. So, firstly Rhaenyra would need to publicly aknowledge her sons as ilegitamte for Viserys to legitamise them.

Secondly, even if inheritance in the male linegage is important, marriages in Westeros are still utilised to forge political and economical ties. Any Lord, who wants to make their bastard heir instead of the children born by his legal wife, will at best destroy any goodwill given by her family or at worst start a generations long feud.

Rhaenyra‘s position isn't as simple as a mere reversal of the genders. She can't just take the role of the Lord, she is still a woman and society will continue to treat her as such. Laenor is still bringing his own inheritance of Driftmark to ther union, separate from any claims Rhaenyra holds.

While she is lucky enough not to lose the Velaryons as her allies, it does lead to tensions surrounding the succession of Driftmark.

Another argument then is, if Laenor and Corlys aknowledge Jace, Luce and Joffery as Velaryon their blood shouldn‘t matter.

However, that is also not how westerosi society works. Because to them, blood does matter. Laenor and Corlys can claim them as Velaryon as much as they want. But as Varys puts it: „Power resides where men believe it to reside“, and as long as the westerosi people believe that blood lines are vital to the right to rule, the boys‘ right to Driftmark will continue to be questioned. Family names and blood lines are super important (and not just socially, considering how many magic blood lines exist in this world).

And to me it seems pretty clear that Corlys is aware of this fact as well, because he never publicly anounces that their blood doesn‘t matter, in fact he claims them to be Velaryon as Laenor‘s sons.

And this is ultimately the issue at heart of all the vitrol thrown at Rhaenyra. The reason she faces so much push back isn’t just because she had bastards but specifcally because she tries to pass them off as legitemate. With this she triggers the deeply ingrained social anxiety about women duping their husband and disrupting the blood line with their own kuckucks child.

It doesn‘t truely matter that her position is slightly different, because for one Westeros is deeply misogynistic. Even as a female heir she is still subject to the misogynistic standards put on women, because no matter her personal circumstances, their society is still built to cater to male power.

But even more damming is the fact that she ends up proving all these fears true, because she does take Driftmark away from a true Velaryon heir and gives it to Luce.

I think it is really fascinating (in a very concerning way), how some fans are so ready to take these societal rules as hard facts. Instead of thinking how they might reflect on inherently flawed systems of power.

As viewers we should be capable to recognize that these cultural norms are wrong. Jace, Luce and Joffery might be bastards but this doesn't devalue them as human beings. Nor does it impact their capabilites as future rulers. Nor does Rhaenyra‘s gender impact her‘s. There is nothing that make a trueborn man more worthy of ruling than a bastard or a woman.

But important to remember is also that Rhaenyra isn‘t going to make a better ruler soley on the virtue of being the firstborn or chosen by Viserys. Nor are her sons going to make better heirs because they are her children.

[horizon-verizon]

But, but ...Vaemond was the stupid one to question Rhaenyra's kids births, and like Alicent he also wanted to gain something from Rhaenyra's children being dead, etc. The seat of Driftmark. Vaemond is particularly politically stupid (as some claim Rhaenyra to be) for saying that shit out loud for her to hear where she had access to a dragon, the power of an heir, AND Viserys' assured agreement with her actions! And his agreement is proven when he commands Vaemonds' relatives' tongues get cut out for speaking treachery!

People be dumb or rotted. I'm so done.

I support every devastation coming for the green’s. They think their blood is superior, let it spread let us all bask in its glory.

People who stupidly claim rhaenyra should declare her sons as illegitimate then legitimise them are either dumb or don’t realise they’re watching a show set in middle ages. A man eg-corlys in the same story, can do that for a woman to do that would mean execution for her children and herself, viserys did a lot of things wrong but ignoring his daughter’s kids parentage was the right thing.

[alicentflorent]

Rhaena really lost her fiancé and her entire future as lady of driftmark, a claim that she doesn’t have without marrying a relative all because she is a woman and people are hating on her for being upset that’s she’s being sent away from her sister and the rest of her family who are all going to war and that she’s being treated like a glorified babysitter and placed in a maternal role because she isn’t a dragonrider (something that already makes her feel as less than) and people think Rhaena, a teenager, is being unreasonable.

[maegalkarven]

A future fic carcass I'll write when I write (after I finish 9 ungoing fics)

King Viserys dies at the wedding celebration of his daughter, Crown Princess Rhaenyra Targaryen.

No one else does.

I am a firm believer Otto and Viserys are the rot on the face of the House of the Dragon and without these two everything would be fine-ish.

Unfortunately, we need Vissy T for his kids to be born, so Viserys dies soon after Aemond is conceived. Sorry, Daeron, not this time.

Joffrey doesn't die because he doesn't manage to provoke Criston before the king dies.

Rhaenyra overrules his father's decision and marries Harwin Strong.

Their son Jacaerys Targaryen is the heir to the throne, Lucerys Targaryen is the heir to Harrenhal.

Daemon marries Laena and lives at Dragonstone (Rhaenyra grants him that), their firstborn is the heir of Driftmark.

Laenor joins the Queensguard and is sent to Dragonstone to protect Prince Daemon (ha) and his future heirs.

Criston Cole becomes the Commander of City Watch while still retaining his white cloak (what? He did it in canon, can do it here).

Rhaenyra removes Tyland Lannister as the master of ships and appoints Corlys Velaryon (back).

When Baela and Rhaena are born, it is decided to betroth Prince Aegon and Lady Baela, making him future lord-consort of Driftmark (and successfully removing him out of succession of the iron throne).

When Jace is born, his and Helaena's betrothal is announced.

Baelon is born without an issue and the royal family meets at the celebration on Dragonstone, where Aemond claims Cannibal and loses an eye in the process.

(Kinslayer, everyone. It fits).

Afterwards Luke is sent as a ward to Harrenhal with his father. A huge ass scene ensures there Luke clings to Aemond and refuses to go.

Aegon makes a greasy comment and gets punched.

Both Aegon and Baela are sent as wards to Driftmark.

Lucerys still leaves.

Harrenhal doesn't burn bc even if Larys kills Harwin and Luke, there's still Lyonel and Joffrey in the equation. Lyonel keeps serving Queen Rhaenyra as her Hand.

Years later the royal family meets at the wedding celebration of Baela and Aegon, where Luke and Aemond behave very much like Rhaenyra and Daemon at Rhaenyra's not happened wedding.

Rhaenyra and Alicent clutch at their pearls, Rhaenyra suggests father died because of seeing something like that.

Daemon asks if she implies they killed Viserys, then asks where is Baelon.

Laena replies Baelon is playing knights with Joffrey.

Rhaenyra and Harwin Strong (no) have three more children, Aegon, Viserys and Visenya, all silver-haired like their mother (her uncle).

Laena is fine with it, they have a poly. Laena doesn't have more children because Baelon's birth was a ghasty one.

Baelon claims the Grey Ghost.

Otto is never called back to the capital because (suprise!) Rhaenyra didn't rush to kill her 3 y.o brother or the other one who was born after Viserys' death. Instead she marries Aegon off so he's no threat.

Aemond eventually joins the Queensguard and is appointed to the future lord of Harenhall.

Lucerys refuses to marry and appoints his brother Viserys as his heir, who marries Visenya. They have a very good life in Harrenhal.

The reason Luke skips over Joffrey is because Joffrey is always at the sea (with Baelon), and Aegon the Younger is bethrothed to Baela and Aegon the Elder' firstborn, Laena.

Everyone lives happily ever after, Otto gets to be the head of the house Hightower after he successfully plots against his own kin, since his blood is secured on the throne, if in unconventional for him way.

He once tried to manipulate Aegon, but was cut off sharply by Rhaenys and Corlys, who kind of adopted the boy as theirs.

Aegon enjoys wandering about Essos very much, he, of course, whores around, but he and Baela have an agreement. One of Baela's children is born from Alyn of Hull, but no one is any wiser, since everyone just thinks the child looks like her.

Jacaerys and Helaena have three kids, Jaehaerys and Jaehaera and then Maelor.

Jaehaera is oldest and so is the heir.

Oh, and Rhaena is happily married to Corwyn Cobray. They have a daughter, Rhaenys.

[halfyearsqueen]

she has nothing against daughters inheriting over sons and never has - but she knows the realities that she’s faced as a female attempting to fight for her position when there is a male claimant, and she’s the king’s daughter. with the backing of the king. it was a ? kind of an open secret that many believed she was an exception and not a standard to be set, and she was so incredibly visible and incredibly watched, she couldn’t outwardly express those ideals without worry of men Getting Scared and loosing their support entirely. because she does ? embody the potential for change even if she couldn’t push for it so much outwardly.

[horizon-verizon]

First, The argument is that the reveal of infidelity is what is important, not the infidelity and bastardry themselves. Because the feudal/medieval patriarchal system in place makes a woman's infidelity a problem when it innately is not except in a consensually monogamous relationship. Which is not exactly what medieval marriages were. And wasn't Rhaenyra's either....since you know, Laenor was gay and couldn't ever impregnate her despite the fact he tried on the show.

Have you also read the posts @rhaenyragendereuphoria gave in their reblog? They all go into this argument, which you didn't touch or try to disprove.

You seemed to totally skip over the part where rhaenyragendereuphoria points out how Phillpe le Bel's daughter Isabelle purposefully exposed the women for her own benefit, going later on to do the same things. Alicent doesn't sleep around or have a lover, but she also accuses to gain.

That was the point.

Second, Vaemond Velaryon didn't necessarily care about bastardry but about power when you break it down. Did he talk all that talk about bastards and pure blood and all that because he thought these things important and defining? Yes. And why did he protest? Because he wanted to inherit. That motivation was enough for him to openly try to get others to see Rhaenyra's children as bastards. Why? Because if he is successful, then he gets to get the Driftmark seat and all its powers, privileges, lands, etc. It wasn't about keeping his house safe so much as he thought he should gain control and disagrees with Corlys, who I have to remind you, on the show was fine with leaving Driftmark to Lucerys even though the show also tries to make it clear that everyin, including Corlys, knew those boys were not Laenor's biological kids. The show is very clear on that. Corlys didn't want Vaemond to inherit and made specific movements to not have him inherit.

So Vaemond, while declaring that he was trying to keep bloodlines "pure" -- which is already a cultural, fake, patriarchal concept -- was simultaneously going against the wishes of the House Head. And for what? Power.

Bastardry and the focus on female chastity instead of male chastity and fidelity both come from the perceived disadvantage of a noble man (who was left with the decision-making power and were customarily the ones to inherit total power and authority) not being assured that the child produced comes from the man since cis men do not birth. Women do.

This is why you see so many restrictions on women's movements, dress, actions, and sexuality form an early age in these societies -- to present images of not being "ruined", or touched by a man that their parents/authorities have not assigned to this girl/woman. I write to an anon HERE about the Anstey Case of the c.1160s HERE. And I talk about why Viserys chooses to continue to keep Rhaenyra's children's rights even though he had to know they weren't Laenor's HERE. This is another person you seem to have totally ignored or forgotten, an example of a man/male ruler choosing to not rock the boat for himself, as a rebuttal to your example of The King of France and "fought wars with the vassals and the Flemish....".

Btw, this also just revealing how it is people, not bastardry, who endanger succession because you brought up a situation where the ruler felt, from how he observed his own situation before and during the reveal of his daughters-in-law infidelity, that he needed them gone. Viserys had the ability to just keep stuff under wraps, because as rhaenyragendereuphoria ALREADY noted, there was plausible deniability. Again, where is the part where you try to disprove their specific arguments instead of deflecting and ignoring? Acknowledging those arguments?

Anyway, point is the Vaemond made it a big deal because he wanted to get something out of it, therefore he got munched.

Thirdly, in the book, Vaemond's relatives' tongues were taken out after protesting Rhaenyra killing Vaemond. True. I already said here that Vaemond invited danger to himself in his bid to gain power that he independently wanted and tried to gain by calling Rhaenyra's sons bastards and trying to gain agreement or force Viserys to "admit" it.

Vaemond's relatives', knowing that Viserys already OPENLY announced that no one should ever question Rhaenyra's kids' parentage. Those relatives did so anyway. They knew why Vaemond did what he did, and still expected Viserys to just...recompense them? And Viserys never punished Rhaenyra, nor would he because, again, he already said that no one should do that, and Vaemond did it anyway.

Quote from Book:

Even this did not end the matter, however. Ser Vaemond’s younger cousins fled to King’s Landing with his wife and sons, there to cry for justice and place their claims before the king and queen. King Viserys had grown extremely fat and red of face, and scarce had the strength to mount the steps to the Iron Throne. His Grace heard them out in a stony silence, then ordered their tongues removed, every one. “You were warned,” he declared, as they were being dragged away. “I will hear no more of these lies.”

("A Question of Succession")

So in that moment, though violent, it was already forewarned. And Viserys, being King who's word is law and needs to back up said word, ruled their tongues should be cut out for going against his law/word.

This was also after the constant pressures of Alicent and the incident of Vhagar and Aemond's eye. It is reasonable to see that both Viserys and Rhaenyra were just done with these and decided to go hard and fast against these people. Which, I must remind people, is actually something feudal people want: decisive leader/monarchs who back up their words.

So this also shows how you have ignored and have not sufficiently made an argument against that VISERYS, the King, the analogue to your "King of France...", deciding to keep Rhaenyra's kids openly legitimate despite the fact that he would likely have known they weren't Laenor's. Viserys point blank acted differently from the King of France we're talking about here, and he decided to. Why? I already say why in my linked post that I am sure will probably get ignored, but ultimately because he both saw this as the easier way to maintain control and Rhaenyra's claim/succession PLUS his personal affection and regard for her.

I also include mentions and quotes from Herman's Sex with the Queen many times in my posts about medieval/monarchial/feudal women and infidelity whenever this is mentioned. Maybe take a read of that?

Finally, we're not in a story where the reasons to uphold the classist status quo goes un-criticized. GRRM is writing a story--that F&B is a part of--to re-humanize &heroize dehumanized groups of people like bastards, women, peasants, children. Vaemond is one of thise that serves as an antihthesis to the protection or advancement of one of these people, Rhaenyra--a woman--for his onw advancement. To put it very simply.

I’m finally reading the Accursed Kings series by Maurice Druon, I had not realized it covered the case of Marguerite and Blanche of Burgundy and ummm….. really has forcibly put HoTD back into historical perspective for me.

For those not familiar with it, the daughters-in-law of King Philip the Fair of France, Marguerite (married to the eldest son Louis) and Blanche (married to the youngest son Charles) were both caught having an affair with a pair of brothers. Needless to say, it does not end well for any of the parties involved. The men were flayed, hanged, and beheaded, and the two princesses were imprisoned, with Marguerite being murdered a year later so that her husband could remarry. And her daughter, Jeanne, who would have been the heiress of France, may or may not be a bastard, so is forcibly removed from the line of succession by the invention of Salic law, which dictates that the crown can only pass to men through the male line. (Since Louis who may or may not have been her father died without any male heirs) Unsurprisingly, this causes problems! And partly sparks (among other things) the Hundred Years War between France and England.

Having bastards is serious business with serious consequences for married women. And YES, it is absolutely unfair and ridiculous that men can do it with far fewer consequences, but the show downplayed what those consequences can be. In GoT, the whole starting point is that Cersei has illegitimate children and passed them off as her husbands, and people are killed to keep that secret. Not to mention the humiliating punishment that she has to endure, and she was only being punished for having sex as a widow!!!

My point is that Rhaenyra having bastard children is kinda downplayed in the show, and that this IS a big deal both historically and in universe was glossed over.

[goddessofroyalty]

I was catching up on blood for blood with the new chapter and had a though. If Lucerys other fathers were still alive would he have still ended up married to Aemond?

Short answer: Yes. Probably.

Funnily enough whether Laena is still alive is more likely to have an effect than Leanor and Harwin because if she's alive Aemond doesn't have Vhagar so is a bit less of A Threat. However I feel like even if she did he would still end up with a dragon at some point and become the Capital-P Problem.

And then that's the thing - Aemond is a Problem and one that marrying him to Luke does kind of solve. For similar reasons to in the fic that once he is married to Luke (and especially once Luke gives him a child) he can no longer encourage the bastard rumors because Luke's inheritence is his inheritence (and his child's inheritence).

In some ways Laenor living would make Alicent's side less inclined to the marriage. Because with Laenor still in play it's going to be even harder to put a young kid on the seat and have Aemond as Steward (they have to get rid of Leanor as well as Lucerys and Corlys). But Viserys has final say in that side and he's going to be in support of the marriage. And honestly it becomes a smarter play for Rhaenyra's side - even more likely to end in their advantage than disadvantage so they kind of have to agree to it.

It's what happens after that becomes the question. With Laenor still alive there's less need for Corlys to take Luke (and Aemond) back to Driftmark because there's less urgency to get Luke ready to take the seat - Laenor is still going to inherit first. However getting Aemond to Driftmark is strategically the smartest move (staying with the House most loyal to Rhaenyra's side and harder for his mother/grandfather to get messages to without interception). So they probably still send them there with the justification of teaching Luke what he needs to know for when he rules... eventually.

The biggest change is that Luke gets that bit more of a buffer from the pressure resting solely on his shoulders. He doesn't feel like he has to learn how to govern and figure out how to handle Aemond in as little time as possible.

Although side thing - I think getting Luke to not be passed over for Joffrey is going to be harder. Because the reason in the fic he gets it is because Laenor made Corlys promise he would before Luke presented (and Corlys agreed assuming Laenor would change his mind if Luke presented omega only for Laenor to die soon after the promise was made). It would be interesting to see what would be the card that makes Luke still inherit - "it's the best way to remove Aemond as a Threat" is not going to convince Corlys and I don't think they're so progressive to want to keep an omega heir when there's a beta boy also available.

[lana-del-rhaena]

young maddie ziegler is book daenaera velaryon. to me

[horizon-verizon]

I genuinely don’t understand this narrative people are trying to push of Baela and Rhaena’s imagined avenging of House Velaryon like yeah their mother was a Velaryon but those girls are TARGARYEN. They had no stake and no claim to Driftmark/House Velaryon like I need people to leave those girls alone.

They had less "claim" than those who are in the actual "house" unless Corlys decided either would be his heir. And since he didn't, again, they had less claim than any person with the last name "Velaryon". That's just how the system works for Westerosi succession. In terms of the emotional family bonds, yes the girls are Velaryon. Yes their mother being a Velaryon and being their grandparent's daughter will always be valuable to Rhaenys and Corlys for them to be involved & actively offer or try to support in those girls' futures. But they aren't socially or culturally obligated to, they chose to be. If a lord or his wife chooses to not give material or emotional support to their niece or grandchild of a different house, it's not definitively seen as them abandoning said person. This isn't the real 21st century.

Having a specific surname in a feudal era/society does not prioritize nor is defined by "love", care, and emotional bonds between family members--it's about being a part of a very specific social group that owns particular hereditary lands or titles. A clan or blood related family that acts as another layer of identity in of itself for the sake of politics, which is why the Roman men had as much as 3 names (personal name, surname [clan or "gens"], and a nickname that indicated from what clan or "gens" you came from). I am of the ____ clan, this ____ house. Not "My last name is ___, it's what my parents (who have different family names) chose for me out of the options". More often than not, there are no options to "choose" a surname for a child; that child "belongs" to their father's house and they get their father's name. Are there exceptions? Of course (Jaecaerys' double identity). These are exceptions of a rule; that rule is already proven by how exceptional it is for a child to inherit the leadership of a different house through their mother or maternal grandfather. And though the clan/house is weighed above the individual, the head of the clan/house is given authority over their other members precisely because they are defined by being the director of the clan/house's future. Rhaenyra nor Viserys, however, is not the direct head of the Velaryon house and thus can't decide for Corlys regarding his heirs. They obviously can influence or make stipulations or show their preference in deals they make with Corlys...but they'd be thought of of crossing a boundary if they directly tried to tell Corlys who he should choose as his heir.

There's nothing individualistic nor community-affirming about it; it's meant to be exclusive for the sake of dividing resources and ensuring those resources go to someone within or very close to one's clan/house, and often as by the head's decision when open. Is this unappealing and even isolating at times, of course. But people need to know what the sociopolitical boundaries are to understand the quality of the social relationships people have or don't--thus see this one of many elements of the society the characters developed in shape/inspire the decisions that they make. The dragons twins are formidable; but Corlys valued passing down his legacy through boys of his own name, not matter how much he loved these girls.

And the reasons why they are pushing it is so that they can "prove" Rhaenyra was a worse person than she likely was AND to try to emphasize a sense of the blacks' faultiness to equal that that was clear for the greens for that "balance" some of them want. Others want that balance bc they agree with the greens and don't want them to appear as bad as they actually were so they can throw people's suspicion off of their choice and eschew really thinking about their own choice. That and they don't like that these badasses are black and, as one other anon said, are still tied to Targness and the Targs. Credited "Targness".

[ride-thedragon]

How it feels like being a fan of Afro-Futurism and Afro Surrealism watching Hotd.

I just want to understand, you know.

You get to make a change with this very famous series and add diversity to have Corlys in the same shirt for 26 years? (Corlys being such a baddie but refusing to change accessories for the outfit?)

We lived in a world where Ruth Carter had won her Oscar for Black Panther and you dress them like every other bitch at the height of their power?

This isn't even about them being black because they aren't in this world. But, what they are is a massive trade house that's frequently leading explorations all over the world.

Why is Laena in a Baratheon type dress in Pentos?

Why are her girls having dinner with the Pentoshi Prince in clothes very similar to their night gowns?( I didn't know it was different outfits. I just found that out.)

Why does young Rhaena have more costume changes in one night than teen Rhaena has in days?

It would've been so fun to make house Velayron distinctly noble, using non European inspiration at similar time periods.

You could've had the added element of Jace, Luke, and Joffery in Velayron clothes that obviously don't suit them when they were young and as they grow up lean more to the Targs and Velayrons respectively. Instead, we choose color distinctions.

I try to be kind, but this still hurts me.

[b-rainlet]

You know what? I think Alicent should've been more evil

[allyriadayne]

I have yet to see a single person explain why it's better for Baela to be the lady of Driftmark than the queen of the Westeros. Also if Baela gets Driftmark Rhaena gets nothing, it's an elegant solution for a reason.

yeah yeah. i mean it's not IDEAL that for baela to have any kind of power or autonomy she has to marry, same for rhaena. it's all an illusion but IN universe, which i think it's what matters, nothing compares to be queen of the seven kingdoms. esp if it is married to someone you've known and liked since childhood.

it just doesn't make sense when you think of the driftmark succession. laena's children STILL come after laenor's children and legally, jace luke n joff are his. it bothers me when people go "oh vaemond was killed for the truth" no, that's not right ellen. if he were advocating for a "legitimate" succession without the velaryon boys why not push for the twins? at the end it's just another power grab.

[bohemian-nights]

I'm worried about Nettles.Nettles may very well have gotten cut altogether as it'd spare the writers the hassle of rewriting her to avoid compromising their darling Rhaenyra. They have no need for a character whose story paints their feminist hero as consumed with jealousy and racism(much less prone to a supremacist outburst); they would never allow her to disgrace herself by antagonizing another female over the affections of a man, anyway.

Not to mention this would spare Daemyra's pandering ship + if parts of her plot are merged with Rhaena, Daemon gets a soppy end, finishing off as a loving slave of Rhaenyra.

I don’t know how many times this must be said, but Nettles is an integral character to the plot who can’t be swapped out by others just because they are all Black now. Rhaena, Addam, Baela or whoever else these weirdo stans think should relplace her are not replacing her.

This isn’t the nor has it ever been the Dumbnyra show.

Did people forget about chokegate or the 50-11 times Daemon left Missy Anne’s ass in the dust.

Do I need to provide the photographic evidence again🙃 The love(in a non-perverted/materialistic/abusive form) never existed between those two.

Has anyone been paying attention to the leaks? Rhaena goes to the Vale with some eggs dragonless(like in canon). We literally saw Addam with Seasmoke in the trailer (like in canon). Baela has her dragon Moondancer(like in canon). Sheepstealer is there and Silver Denys is going to try to claim him(once again, like in canon).

Did you guys not see the leaks about how Daemon is going to go Ike Turner again🙃

Hell, I don't like it, but there is a way to include Nettles and have Missy Anne coming out clean as a whistle. Blame it on Mysaria which would screw things up, but not including Nettles would be absolutely nonsensical.

Sheepstealer isn't going unclaimed. Maidenpool is going to happen, Daemon isn’t going to be a sexless monk there, and he still is going to need a reason to say deuces. So unless they create some show-only character to claim him and to fuck Daemon just to avoid adding Nettles, Nettles will be there.

I will say this till I am blue in the face, she isn’t being replaced by anyone 👏🏽

Sorry if this comes off as harsh, but I’m tired of seeing this bullshit in my inbox and the Nettles tag. Netty is an amazing, terrific, and irreplaceable character.

I know I'm biased because I'm a Nettles stan, but there are actual TV journalists/publications who've mentioned the same thing.

The only people who think she's replaceable are dumbass racist Dumbnyra stans, but they aren't the only ones watching this show.

The butt hurt Becky’s can stay made about her existence till the cows come home, but she’ll be there.