#dragon age flemeth

[spacedogreincarnate]

Morrigan is wearing Flemeth’s headpiece I’m going to SOB!!

[seffie-jade]

Some of my thoughts about vows and vengeance. I cannot be normal about this. I thought I'd share screenshots of my twitter ramblings because I do not have the energy to be cohesive or coherent rn

[arlathvhenan]

Can we not act like Flemeth is suddenly Good Now TM because she showed a shred of humanity for about five seconds in DAI? I'm not saying she's the epitome of evil. I don't consider her evil at all, honestly, but she's not suddenly your fairy godmother because she said one nice thing about your Inquisitor. Flemeth is arguably one of the greyest characters in the entire franchise, and we know for a fact that she's a serial manipulator. She's been grooming and manipulating her own children for centuries.

There's a reason Morrigan has spent the majority of her adult life running away from her.

[pumpkincalico]

Maric just shrugging off a cryptic warning Flemeth gave him about a man he just met not 3 days ago will never not be funny-

[adoribullpavus]

might need to start bringing cassandra to meet flemeth in inquisition, she seems bewildered when varric tells her hawke bumped into "a myth"

[wylldebee]

Okay but what if we end-up meeting/bumping into a teenage Kieran and he's just as dramatic in his entrance as his mother and grandmother 👀?

[carvaraad]

sorry I'm crying, guys, I just thought of Solas killing his qpp again :(

[kittymama01]

Can I point out something interesting between Solas and Flemeth?

Maybe I don't have to spoiler warn about it but I will. If you haven't finished Dragon Age: Inquisition- go past this post.

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So, big reveal about Flemeth is that she is herself but also the Elven "Goddess" Mythal. They're not actually Gods, just extremely powerful mages.

Another big reveal is that Solas is the Dread Wolf. And he and Mythal know each other, they were close.

What I want to talk about is the views these two have on Grey Wardens.

One powerful being has been asleep most of the time and has watched most things happen in dreams.

The other powerful being has been awake and lived on Earth all this time

... Solas is smart. But, he hasn't really lived in this world. Mythal/Flemeth has. She's watched and truly experienced what Thedas has gone through. She's sat through, almost, every Blight that's happened in history. She sees the importance of the Grey Wardens, that she even risked her life to save the HoF and Alistair. If it wasn't for her, Thedas... Or, really, Ferelden at best would been lost.

But, to Solas... Grey Wardens aren't necessary. He thinks they're pointless. He says there's a way to defeat the Archdemon and shit and it's like... Okay... Do it, dude.

Mythal/Flemeth has been here watching all these Blights happen and she couldn't do anything. And we've seen how powerful she is and if she says "let's rely on the Grey Wardens". What does that say about the Blight?

Like, seriously, this just adds on to Solas being a know-it-all. And by that I mean- he doesn't actually know shit. This is the dude that is trying to save the world by bringing down the Veil and killing everyone in the process. He's been asleep all this time and comes out acting as if he's the man with ALL the answers.

Not gonna lie, it would be interesting if a Blight does happen in DA4 and Solas tries to stop it himself. Only to fail.

I might be seeing this differently, if anyone else has an opinion on this, I'd be happy to hear it. This is just something I noticed between the two and I think it says a lot about Solas.

[janehaster]

Mythal and Solas: Could both be lying, selfish bastards?

I'm not convinced Mythal was the victim of a plot by the Evanuris to murder her, as she claims. She could be lying about the circumstances of her demise, as well as about many other things, such as her image as Saviour of the People. No, no, hear me out before throwing rocks at me. I promise this will be interesting:

We don't know what happened in the time of Arlathan. The idol shows "a crowned figure" in terrible pain with her followers, and that's it. And by making a blood magic ritual, you can open a rift in the Fade that leads you to a place guarded by presumably a Pride demon in the shape of a wolf - we know it's Pride because a Spirit of Wisdom possesses many eyes and is the only one that turns into Pride - and that many people have speculated to be the Black City, the Seat of the Maker, the Center of All Creation, etc

Mythal claims she was betrayed and murdered. Solas also states the Evanuris killed her. But WHO orchestrated the whole thing? And who carried out the deed? And most importantly, WHY?

Now, Mythal is presented as this motherly figure, one that takes care of people and represents justice. But as we learned from the DA games, the stories about the Evanuris are all wrong. They're not Gods or Creators. They were Elven Magisters whose society thrived due to slavery and oppression. They were selfish and cruel, with Solas even stating one of them enjoyed blood sacrifices to their name.

Now tell me: where did Mythal's stories originate from? Not from the People. The records that exist and that told her past are the same fairy tale that the Dalish used to learn about their other gods.

And Solas is the only person who lived in ancient times that the Inquisitor knows. If he speaks well of her, then players will assume we have no choice but to believe him. However, we do know he was quite fond of her. Hell, they could even be lovers. And what lover is going to badmouth someone they miss and still care about?

"But you gotta take into account ALL that Flemeth did for the HoF and for Hawke! She's a good person! She helped our characters survive! She SAVED the HoF from that tower and carried Hawke all the way to Gwaren!"

Did she, now?

Do you remember exactly what Flemeth did in the past two games? Origins and Exodus (aka DA 2)? Let me help you remember:

In Origins, she doesn't help the Wardens. Not really. She was in dragon form. If she wanted, she could have decimated most of the darkspawn horde from above. Hell, she could have probably plucked both Duncan and King Cailan from the battlefield if she wanted. Yes, the darkspawn are evil and the taint is contagious, but who tf would mess with a dragon? I bet they give even an Ogre pause.

But no, she took the easier route and saved the two Wardens that were farthest from the battlefield and stayed out of harm's way.

What does she do, then? Being a powerful mage, one that could probably keep the HoF alive through most of their journey and make sure we don't die or become horribly maimed along the way?

She sends her daughter instead. And a daughter that, for reasons that become clear later in the game, has plenty of reasons not to trust her.

Now here is where Mythal's intentions become clear.

She doesn't accompany us not because she's old, since her age doesn't hamper her AT ALL, as proven when you choose to battle her and when she wipes out the darkspawn horde attacking the Hawke family in Exodus' prologue. She sends Morrigan because she's using her daughter to recover something of HERS. The piece of soul stored within the Archdemon likely belongs to her. She retrieves that piece through Morrigan.

In short, she risks her own daughter's life for SELFISH reasons. Morrigan learns Flemeth has MANY daughters, scattered across the world. And she's not wrong when she says her mother uses them when it's convenient.

Now get this: Morrigan clearly tells her mother "she's not ready" when Flemeth suggests she accompany the Wardens on their mission. You can hear in Morrigan's wavering voice how fearful she is of what her mother is asking her to do. Nonetheless, Flemeth insists Morrigan must go, under the guise of helping the Wardens, who "desperately" need her help.

Turns out in the end of Origins you DON'T actually need Morrigan's help!

You really don't.

What happens if you refuse to perform the Dark Ritual with Morrigan? Why, you or your Warden companion die while fighting the Archdemon. You vanquish evil and hurray, the day is saved! Flemeth doesn't get what she needs, her piece of soul dies with the dragon and the 5th Blight ends.

So how come Flemeth helped you in Origins, eh? She didn't, pal. Morrigan doesn't know shite about the taint, she doesn't know of any magic capable of shielding you or your companions from the contagious blood of the darkspawn you kill in your travels, she doesn't even know how you're supposed to win against the Archdemon! She DOES know about the Warden's little secret, but she doesn't know ANY magic that could easily defeat it. No, you have to fight your way through and beat the shit out of that dragon until it's actually dead. And that's it.

"But, but...she RESCUED you from the tower! She SAVED you from the darkspawn horde at Ostagar!"

You're forgettting something, pal. She NEEDED a Warden for her daughter to successfully perform the Dark Ritual. No Warden, no sex ritual, no reclaiming her soul piece. Again, she's using people - her daughter, in this case - to accomplish her own selfish ends.

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Now let's look at Exodus.

Flemeth shows up and saves Hawke from a darkspawn horde. Granted, she didn't need to do it. HOW-E-VER, she did.

Remember the magical medallion/necklace/thingy she asks Hawke to take to Marethari, the leader of the elven clan staying at Sundermount?

She needed someone to take her precious Horcrux all the way up there. So she USES Hawke after doing something that would make them indebted to her. She saves their life and then names her price: take the medallion to the mountain.

Not only do we become agents of her will, she also flat out refuses to explain anything to us by being cryptic and speaking in metaphors.

And just what the hell did she have to do in Sundermount, so close to Kirkwall? What was so damn important?

Something tells me she was watching Morrigan from afar, discreetly following her to see what became of Kieran (she does mention her daughter when you speak to her)...but that's just speculation on my part.

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Now let's take a look at Inquisition, and how it all comes together.

Flemeth is instrumental in helping the Inquisitor win against Corypheus. When Morrigan doesn't drink from the Vir Abelasan, it's Flemeth who teaches them how to summon a dragon in the fight (rather than becoming one, a skill only someone trained in it, like Morrigan, could dominate).

We also enter Mythal's temple in the Arbor Wilds and learn there are still elves SUBJECTED TO HER WILL.

I write this part of the sentence in capital letters for two major reasons:

This relates to how Cole, a spirit, was supposed to turn into a demon by remaining unprotected from Corypheus, and, therefore, subjected to his will. Mages are able to submit spirits in that fashion. And it seems the Evanuris found a way to do the same to non-spirits!

Notice how the elves all wear vallaslin at Mythal's temple, which means something very important and that probably went completely unnoticed: that Mythal MADE them wear blood writing on their face and that they were not free.

Read that again.

The elves like Abelas were not servants. THEY WERE SLAVES TO MYTHAL.

Remember how Solas removed the vallaslin from slaves who wished to be free? And why did he perform that ritual? Was that symbolic?

The answer is no. There's more to Solas' ritual than just represent freedom.

The reason is because the Evanuris likely mind controlled their slaves THROUGH BLOOD MAGIC.

The vallaslin likely contained blood from the Evanuris. And through that blood they subjected their slaves to their will.

"But we KNOW that's not HOW Mythal controlled her servants! What about drinking from the Well and Solas saying you were now bound to Mythal? What then?"

My dear reader, drinking from the Well doesn't make you obey her because that is done through the vallaslin. Drinking from the Well means you absorbed the souls of all the previous Mythal priests and are now bound to THEIR will, thus forcing you to obey her as well, even against your own will!

That's what Solas was warning you against. That's why the Inquisitor IMO should NEVER drink that shit. Especially after we learn the Inquisitor is one of the few people aware of Solas' insane plan.

So what was the point in Flemeth helping the Inquisitor in that mad fight?

Truth be told, Flemeth's role wasn't very clear in Inquisition. She was supposed to make an appearance at the temple and be betrayed by Solas (really, now, Mythal has a history of being betrayed several times over...).

Other than that, her appearance was meant to conclude her arc since Origins, by making her finally find Kieran and transfer her soul to him, turning him into the true inheritor, which was her plan from the start. A plan which Morrigan aborts and, surprisingly, which leads her mother to just...give up. Flemeth walks away and doesn't mind about her own fate anymore. She lets Solas steal Mythal's life flame and accepts her own demise.

HOW-E-VER...

We do get a glimpse of her true intentions in Mythal's warm family reunion.

You see, when asked by the Inquisitor why she's doing all this, Flemeth states it's "for a reckoning that will shake the very heavens". That's when she goes on a tirade about how she was betrayed, as the world was betrayed and how she carried Mythal through the ages, "seeking the justice denied to her".

Now this is where things become muddled in players' heads.

The Inquisitor states that FLEMETH helped heroes throughout history. Flemeth, not Mythal. And while Flemeth's backstory is tragic, it's not necessarily similar to Mythal's. Did Flemeth pursue justice for herself? Yes. Did she help people when needed? Of course.

Does that mean Mythal was behind those actions all along?

That's where I draw a big, fucking line and shout a resounding NO.

It was Flemeth's choice to help the HoF. It was Flemeth's choice to help Hawke. But did she help them out of the goodness of her heart?

The answer is another resounding NO.

The reason why she helps them both is SELF-PRESERVATION.

In the same dialog with the Inquisitor, Flemeth states that Mythal is as much a part of her as your heart is a part of your chest.

The one goading Flemeth to send her daughter Morrigan to retrieve the missing soul piece from the Archdemon is Mythal. We understand that after playing Inquisition.

But THE REASON why Flemeth goes along with that plan is because SHE ALSO DOES NOT WISH TO DIE.

"But...then WHY did she transfer her soul to Kieran? Isn't she going to die anyway? Doesn't that save Mythal? What about herself?"

My dear, naive reader. Didn't she just confess to you she became one with Mythal? Their souls are forever linked. In short, by saving Mythal, Flemeth is actually SAVING HERSELF.

Which brings us to the conclusion of this long ass post and the reason why Mythal is NOT a cute motherly figure, saviour of the oppressed, with innocent intentions toward the world.

Her personal quest begins in Origins. She finds a couple of Wardens and sends her daughter along with them for them to produce a vessel for her. She then tracks said vessel and, once it's ready, she'll fill it with her own soul and Mythal's.

And that's it. That's Flemeth's big motivation. Flemeth's, not Mythal.

Now comes the one million dollar question, the one burning in your mind, dear reader:

And what is Mythal's intention?

That's what Dreadwolf will have to answer.

But if you stayed with me so far and still believe Mythal is this holy saviour, then you haven't been paying proper attention...

Let's recap what happened, shall we?

Mythal had slaves, like every Evanuris.

She left clear instructions for them in the event of her demise (protect the Vir Abelasan).

She sees no problem in manipulating people to get them to do her bidding.

She likes to challenge authority (Flemeth, Andraste), placing the people she "possesses" in great danger.

She's vengeful and obstinate, having waited millenia for her revenge against her "betrayers".

She was Elgar'nan's wife, which means she was accustomed to being treated as a queen.

She's powerful (killed a Titan, can turn into a dragon), which would make her a formidable adversary to anyone who challenged her.

Solas, who we know to be a big LIAR - yes, omission classifies as lying -, states that Mythal was "the best of them" and that she was murdered.

Mythal is around not to save the world from impending doom. In her own words, she lingers for a reckoning that will shake the very heavens. That's to say, she no longer wants justice. She wants REVENGE.

(Thought about Anders, now, didn't you? What if Anders was a way for the devs to hint at Mythal's leitmotif?)

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Now let's try to tie all this together without falling into Solas' or Mythal's fabricated narrative:

The Evanuris - one or many - brought Mythal's life to an end. Was she a tyrant? Was she a benefactor? Did she bring this on herself? We don't know. The player doesn't know. We only know of Flemeth and her personal quest since Origins. That's what we covered in this long ass post so far.

Their action seems to have fucked shit up and caused Solas to lock them up in the Crossroads, behind eluvians.

Afterwards, he raised the Veil and destroyed Arlathan, screwing the elves over in the process.

From here on, everything becomes foggy.

Solas went into uthenera. What was left of Mythal wandered into the waking world until it found hosts to possess. She then spent a long ass time creating vessels - her daughters - to ensure her ongoing existence.

The Magisters Sidereal murder tens of thousands of helpless elven slaves in a blood fest and open a fucking portal to the Fade.

They not only find out Thedas is a godless land, but contract some sort of magical black plague.

They return ugly as shit and contaminate thousands of unsuspecting innocents in the process. The Blights begin. Nearly everyone fucking dies.

A group of people concoct a potion using their knowledge of blood magic and convert the first willing soldiers into Wardens. The First Blight is vanquished.

Somewhere down the line, Mythal possesses Andraste and, after her betrayal and death, a new religion is born.

Time passes. Four Blights happen.

Mythal possesses Flemeth and both are now trying to take advantage of the Wardens to create a new vessel.

Some time, either now or in the future, Solas awakens and hands his Foci to Corypheus in an attempt to destroy the Veil and kill the big, evil magister. His plan backfires, because of course it does, and a lot of innocent people die in the process.

The Divine dies. A temple burns. There's demons and red lyrium everywhere. And the big, swirling green ass in the sky is formed. Along comes the Herald of Andraste and the Inquisition.

Solas skedaddles and forcibly takes what's left of Mythal's soul to himself and Flemeth's physical form perishes. To say we're screwed would be an understatement.

We meet Solas yet again two years later and he spews whatever bullshit to make the Inquisitor believe Mythal was such a wonderful person and unfairly killed while revealing his insane plan to reset the world for no rational or logical reason other than his desire to play god. Sounds like you should take what this guy tells you with a grain of salt, huh?

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Finally, dear reader, we come to a conclusion. The truth is, we know nothing of Mythal save for her ardent desire for REVENGE. Not justice, but REVENGE. And what form will this revenge take is troublesome, to say the least. She has some spite against the Evanuris, but truth is in the eye of the beholder.

We DO know some of the Evanuris were downright evil, like Falon'Din - who enjoyed blood sacrifices in his name - and Ghilan'nain - who turned people into monsters. Does that mean every Evanuris or Elven Magister was necessarily evil? Did they all deserve to be locked away? Was Solas doing it to avenge Mythal or was something else going on?

And if they were indeed evil, then...why is Solas working so hard on recreating Arlathan?

Just think about it. The moment he brings down the Veil, he's giving the elven people a chance to go back to being as they were. This means that elven mages will find themselves detaining unimaginable power over their peers. And the most powerful among them will just commit the same mistakes the Evanuris did in their time: wage war on their rivals, search for more powerful forms of magic, sacrifice their people in the pursuit of power and prestige and name themselves gods.

Is that world really better than how Thedas is now? Should magic really roam free and unrestrained, as Solas wants?

Or, rather...as Mythal wants?

Because I'm still not convinced this is all Solas' plan...

...just as I'm not convinced that "wolf spirit" isn't ordering Solas around, rather than the other way around.

A reckoning that will shake the very heavens...

Solas and Mythal having a long history together since the time of Arlathan...

Mythal manipulating people for millenia with promises of power and an extended lifespan if they let her "possess" them...

I think Mythal will return in Dreadwolf...but she's not the heroine many people were misled to think she is.

[gemitah]

[DRAGON AGE 2] COSPLAY

Flemeth.

Costume made 100% made by me.

Photo by Frank Croft.

[fresh-prince-of-denmark]

Please someone else think this is funny

[skellagirl]

so I played through Origins again and there's this middle-aged man 🫣

Amrynn the Hero of Ferelden will smooch him, so help me God

why did they do him so fucking dirty in Trespasser anyway lol 😭 I'm half convinced he was originally meant to be an entirely different character and then last minute they were like, 'hey let's make him Teagan instead' but didn't change anything about his design. But it IS really funny when your Inquisitor rides up to the exalted council and looks up at him and he's just mean mugging the FUCK out of you

[arlathvhenan]

What's your take on Flemeth *in DAO*? Inquisition was my first DA game, and I was shocked to discover the "you were never in danger from me" lady actually treated Morrigan very poorly. Most of my wardens agree to fight Flemeth if Morrigan tells them of her childhood. But I have a feeling Solas would be pissed as hell knowing Mythal had to (temporarily) die again.

I think Flemeth is a deeply complex woman who was victimized long ago and that cocktail of rage and pain that’s been stewing inside her for centuries has warped her immeasurably and irrevocably. She’s the victim who went on to become the abuser.

I also know that bitch isn’t really dead, because we’ve been through this one with Flemeth before and the woman is always 50 steps ahead.

I also don’t think what happened between her and Solas was unplanned. The two clearly have essentially the same goals* and appear to have been working towards these goals together for ages. What happened in the epilogue was left intentionally vague, but if you take in to context what we know about these characters, their abilities, and how magical shit works in Thedas, you can put together a decent interpretation.

My interpretation is thus:

What happened in the epilogue was the contingency plan Solas desperately wanted to avoid, and it’s likely a factor in why losing his Orb is so devastating to him. Flemeth/Mythal knew before hand what would happen and made the proper preparations. I think the reason Flemeth acts so seemingly out of character there is because Flemeth herself had already bounced. She sent her soul/spirit/whatever through the Eluvian to occupy the next host body. I have theories on ho that host might be, but that’s for another post. Point is, she’s been doing that exact thing for centuries, not sure what would stop her now.

So who was that we spoke to? I think it was just Mythal. Flemeth bounced, leaving Mythal’s wisp and possibly also the Archdemon behind.

Note—if Morrigan’s son Kieran exists in your world state, then the scene you get instead of going to the shrine takes place in The Fade (supposedly the actual Fade). And instead of it being just Flemeth, you find she’s essentially kidnapped her own grandson to preform some ritual on him involving the Archdemon soul. That line where she tells Morrigan “you were never in danger from me” is triggered after Morrigan refuses to sell out her own son to save herself—“I will not be the mother you were to me.”

What was Flemeth planning to do with Kieran? Who knows, but after Morrigan’s little freak out she extracts the Archdemon soul from Kieran with ease. Literally flicks her hand and whoosh. There goes Urthemiel. Now she’s got the demon…temporarily.

Kieran may be quantum but I think Flemeth likely ends up getting her hands on Urthemiel regardless. If I’m right, then the Archdemon as well as Mythal are now rooting around in Solas’ head. Think Justice and Anders from DA2 but instead of a regular spirit it’s two ancient beings with godlike power. I’m not sure this is an arrangement he’s particularly ok with, but it’s what he feels must be done for the greater good.

Thing is, I’m not sure the greater good actually matters to Flemeth or Mythal at this point. Maybe they did once, but the two have been warped over the ages. They care more about vengeance than justice. Even so, there’s a part of them (or maybe just Mythal) that has enough self awareness to feel guilt over how badly she keeps fucking over the people she’s meant to live most.

There are obvious parallels between Mythal and Divine Justinia, which is how people like myself have come to draw parallels between Solas and Leliana. Based on the very scant knowledge we have of their relationship, it seems like Solas (as Fen’Harel) was her left hand. Like Liliana, he was asked to do the dirty work. The kind of things that leave scars behind, both physical and emotional, and will eventually wear a person down over time.

When Flemeth/Mythal says to Solas, “I’m sorry, too” I can’t help but think of the message Justinia (or a spirit who identified with her) asked the Inquisitor to give Leliana: “I’m sorry, I failed you, too.”

I could keep going regarding my thoughts on Flemeth and that whole situation, but then this post would go on for miles.

TLDR; Flemeth is always suss

[arlathen]

ᴀʟᴡᴀʏs ɢʀᴀsᴘɪɴɢ ʙᴇʏᴏɴᴅ ʏᴏᴜʀ ʀᴇᴀᴄʜ, ᴅᴇsᴘɪᴛᴇ ᴀʟʟ ᴛʜᴀᴛ ɪ ᴛᴀᴜɢʜᴛ ʏᴏᴜ.

[marianchurchland]

The original plotter and instigator. I'm curious to see how they deal with her entity (for lack of a better term, I guess) in Veilguard.

[lokri-art]