#discussion of fetishization

[psychiatricwarfare]

hey btw everyone- people with mental disabilities can and, very often do, experience sexual attraction, get horny, have kinks/fetishes/paraphilias, masturbate, have sex, etc. this includes people with intellectual disabilities and/or any kind of developmental disabilities.

please stop acting like mentally disabled people Never have Any sexual wants/needs when that is so unbelievably untrue that by saying that, youre just admitting that you have obviously never interacted with more than a handful of mentally disabled people, if any at all.

i see it all the time (particularly irl when i talk about my job) where people will try to say that mentally disabled people cant have sex because they're basically children or because they dont understand it or because they cant make their own choices or it would always be coercion or they never ever want it themselves and that just isnt fucking true????

mentally disabled people can make their own choices, they know what feels good to them and what doesnt, they understand when they want to do something and when they don't. mentally disabled adults are not "like children". mentally disabled people are capable of being sexual. sure, some mentally disabled ppl are asexual, just like some able minded people are asexual. because mentally disabled people are human beings, just like everyone else

[srslylini]

crazy thing and that may come as a surprise to some

but a a man fetishizing a lesbian sex scene doesn't make the lesbian sex scene fetishizing the lesbians. It just means a man is a weirdo and lesbians exist.

[lucabyte]

What's your favorite way to characterize your ocs? (if u want a challenge try not to answer with any homestuck related category)

mine is how many siblings they have!

Ok so this is a genuinely interesting question bc i had to actually like... Think about how to word this in a way that isn't complete nothing?

So. My favourite way to characterise my ocs is via their interests. (... something i think homestuck does very well via making sure every character has a grab bag of cool & uncool, intense & wayside interests instead of just a bunch of cool stuff they like equally, but i digress)

That said, it's not so simple as just giving them a likes and dislikes list. in fact i fucking hate likes and dislikes lists cant stand them, they always feel really flat to me. I know they have their uses but I usually can't flatten characters down that way. Likes are ephemeral-- Likes can be shit like 'warm days' which. Duh.

Something i'm a little mean about related to this is what i call "Likes: Friends Dislikes: Bullies" which is something you see on character likes and dislikes in one form or another a LOTTTT. This is because like... Yeah? That can be assumed of everyone? It tells me nothing about the character. Telling me your character likes Pleasant Weather or dislikes Gross Food is like. Uh Huh?

It's not specific! It tells me nothing! But that's the secret.

Specificity and Contradiction are where it's at. Now a character who hates pleasant weather and likes gross food? Now that's a weirdo. Or maybe even that they dislike 'gross food'-- But by their definition that's like... Anything that's not literally raw? Now that's characterisation! Now you get to ask why the fuck are they like that.

And this is how I like to approach things. I like to dig into a character's interests on the surface level by assigning them some, sure. But the fun comes from digging in and making them specific and contradictory. (And usually if a character is unfinished, to me, it's because they're still on that surface level of Just Having Some Interests) (Also, it goes without saying, one of the best places to find these interests for characters in the first place is by joking and riffing for as long as humanly possible. A core joke will carry you farrrrr)

so my actual favourite way to characterise characters? Giving them really specific dislikes, in relation to their interests.

So, for example, (because they are always the example...) Ali is a stagehand and decent actor, and loves plays. In fact, they love plays so much they are outright dismissive of other art forms. They don't play games, they don't really watch TV, their main intakes of media are books, screenplays, poetry and filmed productions or bootlegs. (and hey, bringing up bootlegs: that probably means they participate in the weird bootleg-trading-ring people have going on online. Look at that! A weird niche activity I can give them!)

But, they HATE musicals. Think they "lower" the art form-- Despite (or perhaps because) they're the most popular type of play to put on, especially in the local productions they help out on. They value the scary intimacy of a theatre production, being in a near silent room physically with the performers, they think it elevates it. Makes it unique. They don't like that musicals are like... fun and loud.

But let's go even more specific. Do they have any exceptions? Any begrudging respect?

Well, I think they'd respect musicals like Cats. Things that are pure spectacle, where the music and intefacing with the audience in a chaotic manner are the point. They like that Cats "Doesn't even pretend to have a story. It's not actually trying to compete with plays, it's doing its own thing. It's practically Theatre of Cruelty."

And furthermore, they also enjoy animated or movie-original musicals. Because, well, film is a medium they don't care about as much. It's okay if it lowers itself by being silly. Plus!! Animation is like, fake, for children, and has a heightented requirement for suspension of disbelief! It's perfect for musicals! They're nothing but spectacle! In fact, that's what makes them the perfect medium for them!

^ You may notice that the above is like, while logical, is very dismissive of other mediums! It's a little bit anti-art in places!

And thatt's the other thing. I like to make characters who don't hold the exact same opinions I do.

While there's parts of my actual opinions in there-- I do believe animated is a great medium for musicals due to the whole suspension of disbelief & fun thing-- Um. I would hope it's obvious that as an animation graduate I don't think animation is for children or inherently less serious of a medium.

But Ali is a weird little snob who will hopefully get some slightly more nuanced opinons when they're not literally only 19. So it makes sense that they're being elitist about things. They're insecure, and hanging a lot of their self-esteem on being "an artist with good and refined taste". Of couuuurse they've got a stick up their ass about musicals (something I myself am not a superfan of, but usually enjoy when I watch them. I think Ali is missing out!)

But yeah, that's just from digging in and getting specific about one interest: Theatre.

By digging into the contradiction of "Likes Theatre and Dislikes Musicals" I can find a reason for why. And I can avoid making characters just Mouthpieces For My Own Opinions by giving them opinions i disagree with.

I follow this logic a lot, though not always so straightforwardly.

Chrome is a musician who doesn't really like music, and thinks all artists are just vapidly doing it for attention. (Which should immediately clue you in to what's wrong with him.) It's a more selfish version of the same kind of reasoning Ali has, but one Ali would find ghoulish.

Ess, meanwhile, is a Pedologist. A soil scientist-- A very specific thing you usually get to via being like... A geologist, or chemist, or something more general-- But I've said he was basically on that shit immediately-- Which is a funny concept to me. He didn't go on a journey of scientific discovery to find a niche area of study-- He just loved that niche ever since he was a kid.

So, you'd expect that I'd maybe make Ess dislike other sciences then? Nah, I think he's more nuanced than that. Because, following his very polite and politically aware demeanor, I think it would make more sense for him to be very respectful of all sciences, even if he has no real interest in them outside of how they relate to his field. Instead, he is conciously trying very hard not to form a grudge with more 'popular' sciences-- He knows why they're more popular, and he knows it's not the fault of the people who love the field that they get a lot more funding than him. It's not their fault, it's just a result of science having to be so capitalistic.....

See! Polite little man, very nuanced. That's because most of his contradictions come instead from being a terrified and anxious soul who is doing illegal shit right now while being very scared because they know it's for the greater good. (see! politically aware again. He knows trespassing is illegal, but his morality does not line up with legality. He's exposing governmental malpractice, ffs. But! Not a cool punk! In fact a very scared guy!)

Ess there does get to be a bit of a mouthpiece for me, since obviously I also believe you should trespass to go get evidence of the government knowingly dumping biohazards into the fucking water supply for cost cutting reasons. But he gets to balance it out because every time I have to do research into soil science my fucking head hurts.

Pulling back away from Ess and back to Ali and Chrome again I think I have one last really good example of letting characters have opinions that are different to mine, that's about something that isn't an interest, per se, but hits on the reason I like to do this so much.

It is so fucking fun to make characters argue.

In an earlier purrgatorio that im not going to re-look-at because its early enough the writing quality might make me dry heave, i let ali and chrome have a bit of an argument (with tabitha as a weird mediator who has the closest to my real opinions LOL.)

So. Chrome has what i can describe as "Basically my opinions, but worded in the most bad faith way possible." If I saw someone arguing my point like this i'd want to either smack them or disagree with them on principle.

Whereas Ali has "The opposite to my opinion, but worded with all of the arguments for that point of view that I genuinely respect." They're the talking points I've observed that I genuinely find to be decent reasoning, and I would be hard pressed to disagree with in polite conversation.

They're arguing about religion. Ali is religious, following a small gnostic sect that's basically only practiced by their immediate family. Chrome is bluntly atheistic, but coming at it from a conception of religion that only has room for (a pastiche of) american big-box puritan protestantism, and is assuming every religion to be the same way.

I am an atheist myself, but cannot fucking stand the culturally-christian reddit atheist talking points. So I gave that kind of thing to Chrome (part of this irony being, Chrome is far more spiritual than he thinks-- having internalised a LOT of protestant work ethic), and Ali is from a small cultural religion that couldn't be further from it-- And is also a modern-day internet user with a bitchy streak-- So of course they've memorised every rational and reasonable counter-argument to this kind of thing.

(The full on irony being, that they are fictional and thus Ali is acutally in a sense... Right that there is a demiurge. Lol.)

Even if I do ultimately take the side that uh. Idk dude i dont think god is real. Giving that opinion to the guy who's being a shithead about it makes it more interesting to write?

I treat a lot of things like this. Chrome has a bad anti-art anti-intellectual streak that I follow the logic of, but think is dangerous and flawed. Markus loves scientific knowledge and biology, but is too naive to really know how to chase it-- or when to stop. Miao has a lack of academic smarts, and deeply undervalues her other skills because she's internalised that they don't matter in comparison. Lupus believes there's good in everyone, and can't comprehend the logic of cruelty-- Leading her to equivicate legality with morality in a very childish manner.

Everyone gets an ideology. I should be able to follow the logic of everyone's ideology even if I don't agree with it. And interests are both an extension of ideology, and a window into it.

Chrome's anti-art anti-intellectualism leads him to barely partake in media-- But also undersell his own academic smarts because his skills in physiology are "just dumb meathead shit about how to stay jacked". Lupus' disagreements with Mafioso over criminals being 'cool' betray her inflexibility in categorising actions as 'good' or 'bad', because she wants no-one to suffer-- And assuming an unjust police absolutely turns that to dust.

It's all about putting characters together like a big jigsaw to make them have unique worldviews-- To then be able to look at a real world thing and go "who of my characters would like that/act like that/think that?"

(Now. Uh. I can't say I'm like. The Bestest At This-- That would be a touch egotistical given my lack of Putting My Money Where My Mouth Is And Writing A Big Story For Everyone To Look At. But um. We'll get there? I hope lol.)

But yeah, TL;DR:

My favourite ways to characterise characters are:

Give them specific, contradictory and ironic interests

Interrogate their reasonings and how it informs their self-perception

Give them opinions that don't always align with mine

Interrogate whether they are actually coherent when discussing these opinions

[gutterclan-after-dark]

‼️‼️I am gay and transgender ‼️‼️ I am not criticizing anyone just mentioning some stuff I've noticed in a literary analysis sort of way I am not trying to start discourse‼️‼️

Anyway. One of my clangen cats just rolled as trans (yay) & it's got me thinking like.

What is it to write cats with gender variance in a world that is essentially post-gender (to the extent that any of us, having been raised from birth saturated in the unconscious stew of gendered thinking, can write something that is 'post-gender').

I've noticed that the vast majority of work in the warrior cats space does seem to strive to have complete equality between the sexes- and not just equality, but complete indistinguishably. I've even seen audiences routinely forget what gender a character even IS (which is kind of delightful). Toms raise litters, mollies become leaders, there is no friction, commentary, noticeable difference.

And that's fine- I'm more or less going that route with Gutterclan- but in a world where this is no social or material difference between the sexes- what does gender variance mean? How does it function? Where does it come from? What does being transgender mean in a world where gender identity does not really exist (or at least is not differentiated- there is One gender, and it is warrior cat*), and physical transition is not possible? Is it just a matter of pronouns?

What need for gender neutral pronouns in a world where essentially all things are already gender neutral? Is it just dysphoria? Do trans tortoiseshell toms hate their orange patches, or do trans mollies feel self conscious about their stud jowls? That's sort of miserable, if the only thing that being trans is, is having a problem with yourself that can't be solved.

And what does sexuality mean, when gender barely exists, and sex essentially doesn't? There is romance in warrior cats, for sure, but sex doesn't really... exist in most warrior cats works, and it definitely doesn't exist in the canon books. Which is absurd to say, because people are always having kittens, and accidental litters are a constant plot tangle, but there is never a sense of how these things occur. Being mates means you sit together at mealtimes and rub cheeks and get sad when the other person dies, and sometimes kittens appear after a timeskip.

This is of course due to the age range of the books, and because the main characters are animals. And I don't think it's a problem in need of changing, but it does make trying to conceive of sexuality strange in this world.

What does being asexual mean when no cats ever really display a sexual desire? What does being a lesbian mean where there functionally is no difference between mollies and toms? (Aros get to stay, the WC conception of romance ports more or less 1:1 from our world).

I do believe that sexuality and gender are to a certain extent innate, but they are also deeply, deeply shaped by our society's conceptions. Which is to say, eg, only desiring relationships with other women is perhaps innate, but the identity of Lesbian is constructed (which is not to say it isn't real- like, currency is a social construct, and we wouldn't say it's fake, or that it lacks power over us, etc). So what does it mean to have those labels in a world that- ostensibly- lacks much of the very human, very 21st century, very western, social baggage that creates them? And the answer is basically one of two things:

you do a lot of baroque gender worldbuilding. For your warrior cats fan work (which! Honestly kind of bangs and I would like to see).

People like to see themselves reflected in fiction, and the reason that we have pansexual cats and grey-ace cats and demi-boy cats is more or less because we have those things in real life, and we say the cats are those things and so they are, even if their history & context of gender and sexuality are completely different from ours, and likely wouldn't have created the same labels.

And there's nothing wrong with either of those approaches! I'm more or less going to go with approach 2 in Gutterclan, which just small switches in terminology, but I find it sort of... unsatisfying, the more I turn it over

*I put this question to my buddy Goose & he posited that the space that gender roles serve for us are, in warrior cats, essentially occupied by narrative roles. Leader, warrior, med cat, even things like villain or loner. I am nodding at this proposal very vigorously. In a world without gender, is the angst of a medicine cat apprentice longing to be a warrior not a sort of transgender longing to fit a different societal role than the one you are coercively assigned?

Anyway. I still don't know how to make my cat trans.

[fandom-blahs]

Despite my profile pic my comic book knowledge isn’t the strongest but what is up with people (at least on tiktok) performing mental gymnastics to defend Deathstroke?

I don’t care if you like problematic characters, I myself am an enjoyer of problematic cancel worthy characters. But what I don’t understand is the weird “Oh Deathstroke if only I were your writer!” “They ruined Slade!!” “Why couldn’t he be just a cool mercenary :(“ do you even like the character???

“Slade had potential but DC ruined it, that’s how we got deadpool” I’m tweaking wHAT ARE YOU SAYING!!

I always assumed it was throwing shade at at some unsatisfactory run or him getting characterised as a jobber

But no

The “bad writing” is him being a pedophile and using Tera Like That and overall being pathetic because he was created to be a villain for a team of sidekicks and teenagers.

It always leaves me so stumped and I’ve been seeing it more and more on tiktok…again do you even like the character or just his design?

This isn’t a case of a writer that didn’t do their research and freestyling or something that kind of stuck because the character doesn’t have much going on for them (*ahm Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne) no this is the character’s creator writing him Like That.

AGAIN I don’t care if you like Deathstroke or other problematic characters that’s not the point! But this sentiment that he was done “dirty” because of the Judas Contract is absurd and why is it so widespread?

[daenystheedreamer]

someone made a tiktok of rhaena drinking stream water while chasing sheep stealer with the audio from the audiobooks where in the last dany chapter she's drinking and shitting and shitting and drinking. grrm you have to release that damn book her legacy cannot be drinking and shitting

its so funny how quaithe warned dany about 'the pale mare' it sounds so ominous and very four horses of the apocalypse but its literally shitting out her doodoo ass. grrm please.

[shaydh]

But what if the secret fetish bsky is for a fetish I just don't know I have yet 😭

I trust my secret bsky will reach its intended audience naturally 😌 Otherwise you must unlock level 5 friendship with me and ask me specifically and I may tell you. if you pass the vibe check.

[elizeshiro]

getting into fandom recently,,, by god is it scary!! lmao

(i don't mean this as hate to anyone/anything in particular i am just out n about exploring communities and By God it is terrifying someone come pick me up lmao)

[beepboop260]

I remember that for a while you were pretty against v0re, what made you decide to give it a shot and make Bazil?

I do know vore used to be on my “won’t draw” list but I can never remember being like completely against it as a kink people enjoy but my memory is shit so who knows lmao.

I’ve always enjoyed vore on certain levels. The idea of swallowing something whole and then it notably bulging out someone’s stomach is very hot to me (like my ideas of swallowing pastries whole) as while I love fat kink stuff my heart truly lies in stuffing kink where the person’s stomach is notably distended and disproportionate to the rest of their body and vore has a lot of this (so does preg stuff but there’s other aspects of preg that kinda turn me off to it)

Also part of me only delving into drawing it myself recently has to do with seeing other artists do it in a way that I can really get behind (there is a specific piece I saw on Twitter that comes to mind ngl).

I’ve seen so many cocky preds but I’ve learned the idea of a pathetic pred can be so fun. I do this with Bazil a bit in my head where I will change his height/size depending on my mood and when he’s smaller I image he has more trouble swallowing people and it throws him off balance way more and perhaps he even struggles to keep them down.

It’s also just not my main kink. Stuffing is definitely my top kink but vore can fill a similar role. It’s definitely a much more situational thing to me and I personally enjoy kink stuff much more when there’s some semblance of plot to it and making vore work in any kind of worldbuilding is difficult imo.

Lastly I’ve just relaxed about a lot of stuff recently and have been trying to broaden my horizons. There’s not a lot of fetishes out there that I can’t understand the appeal of them on some level. Like am I personally into them? Nah. Can I understand why someone would be into them? Yeah. And as I said in my initial lore post I have been drawing fat kink for almost 10 years now so like why not try spicing it up a lil (and vore is like, literally stuffing kink adjacent so I’m not even getting that crazy lmao).

TLDR: I’ve always found vore hot as it’s stuffing kink adjacent and I’ve recently seen some stuff of it I really like that made me want to try drawing it myself and Bazil just happens to be a character I think it works with.

[pet-shop-of-horror-fan]

I have a special hatred for people who fetishize disability.

Ableds often can't believe that someone would find any disabled person attractive without it being a fetish. And we can't exist in an erotic way without our disabilities being seen as a fetish. Hell, some of us can't even exist in general without it being fetishized.

How much it happens really depends on the disability in question. But I know of so many disabled people who have their photos, videos, and even just writing about their lives be used by fetishizers. Sometimes it is stolen by them, other times disabled people just get sexually harassed by their fuckers.

You can cry about kink-shaming all you want, but what your community is doing to disabled people is more harmful than kink-shaming could ever be.

[shebpaw]

Hey Warrior Cats twitter, how ya doing today?

Huh.