#discourse for cw

[alexandraisyes]

It's not normal to send people death threats over fiction 👍

If you're so bothered by a piece of fiction maybe you should go to a therapist and talk about why it bothers you

Not send death threats

Authors and artists are real people, not machines for you to abuse

[am-i-the-asshole-official]

AITA for 'outing' someone for writing inc*st?

I (20F) am in a moderately large fandom that got popular during the pandemic. Most of the fic for this fandom is gen and platonic pairings, which is a rarity and fantastic. One of the most popular creators in the fandom puts out a ton of gen fics that I really loved. Unfortunately, I learned after that they write fics on a different account, and not just any fics, but inc*st. I'm not talking about found family. These characters are literal brothers in canon. I can't believe anyone would ship them together, much less this person. I unfollowed them and now, whenever I see anyone talking about how much they love this creator, I inform them about the alt account and their ships. Ignorance may be bliss, but I felt awful when I found out and realized I'd been supporting them for so long and I don't want anyone else to feel that way. But someone replied to one of my comments calling me the asshole, telling me I was outing the creator, and to mind my own business. AITA?

What are these acronyms?

[januscorner]

It’s so weird when people act like cishet people know about queer discourse, I don’t think that frat bro hit on you cus of bi lesbians he hit on you cus he’s a dick

[aqours]

we've entered a really fucking weird era of shipping discourse ngl

[crowns-of-violets-and-roses]

There's an old probably apocryphal tale about Lyndon Johnson that was popularized by Hunter S. Thompson which goes like this:

This is one of the oldest and most effective tricks in politics.  Every hack in the business has used it in times of trouble, and it has even been elevated to the level of political mythology in a story about one of Lyndon Johnson’s early campaigns in Texas.  The race was close and Johnson was getting worried.  Finally he told his campaign manager to start a massive rumor campaign about his opponent’s life-long habit of enjoying carnal knowledge of his own barnyard sows. “Christ, we can’t get a way with calling him a pig-fucker,” the campaign manager protested.  “Nobody’s going to believe a thing like that.” “I know,” Johnson replied.  “But let’s make the sonofabitch deny it.”

Tumblr keeps making me think of this anecdote. There's a group of users on here who constantly demand if anyone mentions BDSM positively or even neutrally they caveat it by saying they aren't talking about abuse or if a man likes to call his boyfriend daddy they demand he disclaim that he doesn't support incest or if a trans girl likes to wear cat ears she needs to deny that she isn't into bestiality.

The point of this isn't that they actually believe it themselves or even a lot of the time it isn't about convincing other people that it's true but just to tar people by creating the association between two unrelated things by demanding that people constantly deny it.

[gor3sigil]

Also please do not fall into the "transandrophobia and anti masculinity in queer spaces is a terminally online issue" bs.

It isn't. It has real life consequences.

It's the reason why a lot of people who are masc leaning don't dare to go to their IRL queer spaces and/or are blatantly kicked out from them, or have their queerness scrutinized.

It's the reason why, and I know I say that in almost every post but please, listen ! It's the reason why so many people stay in the closet and are afraid of exploring their identity and/or afraid to come out. It's the reason why transmascs are deeply isolated and feel alienated when it comes to queer issues. No one is listening to us. Whatever the subject, nobody fights with us for our reproductive rights, our access to medical care, our access to HRT, safety and security for sex workers, suicide prevention, sexual violence, rapes. These subjects become issues worth talking about almost only when we're talking about "women and fems", as a lot of activists say.

Our deaths are ignored and unknown.

It's not only an issue you read about on Tumblr and Twitter, it's something to deeply rooted in real queer spaces that even within these spaces I've seen people look at me with suprise when I bring up the subject of transphobia targetting transmascs, like they didn't even think it existed, and yet, I see other transmascs falling like dominoes over the years, from suicide, from domestic abuse, from homelessness, for being murdered while working, and having their transness ripped aways from them after their died to fall into women's statistics and forgotten.

This isn't an online issue.

This is real.

[theangryman]

One person was banned almost immediately.

The other person was not banned until they made another post revealing that they were posting videos of their partner.

One person was harassed and bullied and told that they were lying.

One person was given advice, told about how they could improve their situation.

This is why kink is not safe. There is more compassion and kindness for someone who admits to wanting to kick their partner in the face than there is for someone who has received that treatment.

[myceliumbutch]

Some of y'all stg

[izvmimi]

*if possible, say why! also pls specify if you’re in a relationship rn or single

[reachartwork]

can you guys be normal for like five seconds please

[mr-ribbit]

gonna rant again bc im seeing a lot of trans women on my dash having to carry the heavy lifting to argue for their basic respect and a lot of other queer people who want to ??? get mad about that apparently. for the record as usual: im tme, im not speaking for anyone besides myself and my perspectives, but I am trying to reach out to fellow tme people to level with y'all from inside the house.

i thought we all got past the 'calling people gendered terms when theyve asked you to stop' thing in like. 2012. i swear we were allllll on board with not calling women dude anymore, nerfing sir and ma'am, neutralizing collective terms for groups, and all of that was like, during the onceler era. that's how we got off-putting shit like folx into the mix - remember???? why are we here again.

to those who I've seen claiming that they REALLY genuinely don't want to offend anyone, and that theyre trying to understand the dude thing, and they don't want to be seen as transmisogynistic when they aren't: ok. let's talk about it. step one, stop sending that really loaded anon to a trans woman you don't know, and close that in-group hatepost with 100 replies from people name-dropping trans bloggers they don't like. try to open your mind and assume for the duration of this post that I am not cynically trying manipulate thousands of tumblr users into making Bro the next big swear word, but a fellow queer human being who thinks you're all being pretty intentionally obtuse about an upsetting trend in our community

to be clear: this post is about the issue of trans women being called bro, dude, man, etc., particularly in recent tumblr discourse about transmisogyny, and the backlash they face if they get upset about it. this is also maybe moreso about the shitty ass excuses I see tme people make for why they supposedly can't stop doing this.

so let's go through some of the things I've been seeing people say they don't understand, supposedly in earnest, about this issue

"I DIDNT USE DUDE AS A MASCULINE TERM. I CALL EVERYONE BRO. MAN IS A GENDER NEUTRAL TERM"

I'm not actually going to exhaust my list of reasons why dude/bro/man are not strictly neutral, but you should be pretty aware that all words have context. Dude might be seen as neutral in many contexts, sure, but 'woman who is frequently called a man by others' is a situation where the context adds extra meaning to your words, just like calling someone "sweetie" might be neutral in some cases, but if you've got the context of knowing that's your coworker who's half your age, it's a bit less neutral. If you're not capable of reading that context and being tasteful about when you say dude, then you need to at least be ready to respond gracefully when someone asks you to stop. This is the part I'd rather focus on.

"BUT I DIDNT MEAN IT THAT WAY. IM NOT TRANSPHOBIC"

I think you should consider broadening your perspective *beyond* your intention behind the word. people may already understand that you meant the word neutrally and therefore didn't have transmisogynistic intent, but that's not really the entire scope of what people are saying. if that's your only concern, you're just trying to clear your record, not actually listen to what they're saying.

there are lots of words people don't enjoy being called, and in most cases, when they say 'pls don't call me that', people respect that and move on. even if the word isn't a slur, if it hurts someone's feelings, we all as a society have agreed that it's pretty shitty to keep calling them that. if your friend asked you not to call them 'buddy' anymore because their dead grandparent called them that, or something equivalently personal, you'd probably respect that instead of telling them 'but I call everyone buddy!!' right? even if you didn't really understand why it bothered them so much?

there is a prominent tendency for trans women to be denied this privilege, and when they ask not to be called dude or bro, people don't seem to respect this request as much as they would in other situations. when I accidentally use a gendered word and someone tells me they don't like it, I try to respond with something like "my bad, I didn't mean it as misgendering but I can see you were still bothered by it, so I'll try not to keep saying it. sorry!" and most people are willing to accept that. when trans women ask people this favor, a lot of people get VERY defensive, and treat the request as inane or unfair, instead of just apologizing and moving on. this is why people are upset when this happens, and it's why people are calling your actions transmisogynistic

also like you might not be doing this, but a lot of people DO use dude and bro in an intentionally gendered way to make trans women uncomfortable. it's a power play bigots use to talk down to them or otherwise maliciously harass them. do you know what arguments they use to defend that behavior when called out on it? 'oh I call everyone that' 'dude is gender neutral calm down' 'dont overreact its just a word'. by acting like this, youre all just giving credence to those same arguments.

"WELL THEY SHOULDNT GET SO MAD AT ME WHEN I DIDNT MEAN ANY HARM"

they can get as mad as they want!! also, are you sure they're 'mad'? or are they just expressing their feelings about a negative topic to you, and it makes you feel bad, so you have to make them out to be unreasonably emotional? how do you think they should have phrased 'dont call me that' to better spare *your* feelings?

also like, in most cases, these women do not knowww you. if your main response to someone saying you disrespected them is to say "I didnt mean it that way, I meant it in a friendly neutral way", well that's NOT YOUR FRIEND! she has no idea what your opinions are or what you think of her!!! she has no reason to assume you only upset her in a friendly way and not a bad unfriendly way! but she did get upset, and she did the one thing she can do which is *tell you what upset her* and your response is to say "well actually you shouldn't be upset at all"??????

and another thing:

it's not just the issue of using the word 'dude', it's because you're coming off extremely dismissive of women who have asked you to stop doing something that harms them, and because your argument is basically that they just shouldn't be so bothered by it. or that they're stupid, irrational, or otherwise crazy for telling you that it bothered them at all, just because you Technically used a gender neutral word according to Your Rules. be honest, does that seem fair? If people were calling you something that bothered you enough to ask them to stop, and they responded like this, how would it make you feel?

focusing solely on your intent and what the words mean when you use them is the same thing as saying "just get over it". no woman should need to Prove to you that 'dude' is gendered for you to care about what she's saying. the fact that you're asking people to do that sucks and makes you look bad, which is why people are arguing with you and calling you a misogynist.

especially those of you who are only doing this with trans women who are actively arguing with. you're wielding misgendering as a cudgel and we can all see it, grow up please.

[spicymancer]

So just wanted you to know, "yellow" is a common slur against Asian Americans and so Huang Feng, being a Bruce Lee (whos an Asian man) clone and all could raise some eyebrows to your intentions. And before i get accused of white knighting, i am Asian

Thanks for reaching out! This is honestly something that might be important to discuss and I appreciate your attempt at broaching the subject delicately. More after the jump.

So to start. I am also Asian. Specifically Chinese American.

As an American born Chinese, I have a weird relationship with my Asian heritage. I have a bad accent when I speak Chinese and most of my upbringing and cultural understanding is very American and western-centric. So I have certain biases at play here that I fully acknowledge. My experience is not universal. But these characters are drawn from that experience.

Huang Feng is a reference to Bruce Lee's performance as Kato in the Green Hornet. Dà Huángfēng being a Chinese term for a hornet.

The character is also narratively implied to be a secret moonlighting identity for the Yellow Ranger in my made-up sentai team. (Who, due to my own decision to always refer to the characters by their Ranger color, is literally just called Yellow by the other members of the cast.)

This is also a reference. Specifically to one of my greatest inspirations, Thuy Trang (Rest in Peace), who played the original Mighty Morphin Yellow Ranger. She was one of the first "Cool Asian Characters" that I encountered in media targeted at me as a child, problematic color choice aside. I sincerely adored her and her giant robot Saber-Toothed Tiger.

To be honest I have a complicated relationship with "Asian Themed" characters in media. So often saddled with cliché stereotypes: Martial Arts, dumplings, nunchucks, etc etc.

But the thing is, even as I roll my eyes whenever I see the Fighting Game character that is The Chinese One who wears a rice hat and a qipao. Or when one is literally just Bruce Lee. I do also immediately main that character. It's a bit of a guilty pleasure. Taking what representation I can get with mixed feelings. Similar to my enjoyment of sexy anime girl art even though it's all rooted in pretty uncomfortable sexist and objectifying aesthetics. A lot of my work comes from a place of exploring my own sexuality/identity. These characters are, partly, my own attempt to explore Asian themes and ideas for myself.

I would love to say that I'm trying to "reclaim" the term or something but I'm just some internet artist drawing cute anime girls and monster smut. For me, playing with these clichés is just another way of being self-indulgent.

Not really defending these creative choices so much as explaining my perspective on them. I totally understand if all this turns folks off! I fully respect those who don't vibe with my work and wish them all the best. It's a big internet and I'm sure they can find something super great to enjoy elsewhere!

Anyway, sorry for the long rambly post. Despite the fact that I'm posting this on Tumblr, I am not super mentally equipped to engage in Discourse, so forgive me if I don't respond to the tags on this.

So I'll just leave y'all with a neat article by Kat Chow discussing the history and usage of the color Yellow in regards to Asian Identity.

[am-i-the-asshole-official]

AITA For Not Tagging a Work?

I, 32F, write primarily for my own enjoyment, my main platform being AO3. I currently have a multi-chaoter series that includes several major plot twists, including one that includes non-con. To avoid spoiling it, because I believe my stories deserve to be read with as little background info as possible, I only tag it as "Creator CHOSE not to Include Archive Warnings". Which is, as I hope is obvious, is not synonymous with "There Are No Warnings". The point is, I don't use the Rape/Non-con tag. Recently, I got a very upset reader in my comments complaining about how triggering that chapter of my work is, and that's where I have a problem. I believe the corporate obsession content warnings pervading even fanworks to be a major problem. I don't want to sanitize my work, but I do get that they contain pretty heavy themes. But I feel like I seriously do give my stories a disservice by adding labels on them, and maybe I am the asshole for this, but I value my pride and joy (my work) over strangers online. AITA?

What are these acronyms?

[nyctohyloph0bia]

Honestly y'all need to chill with the "nonhumaness needs to be involuntary!"

The only reason you're saying that is due to wanting to present 'valid' enough for outsiders. It's not a choice so they won't bully you, like they do furries or other people.

And I hear you cry "but KFF!". KFF aren't nonhuman, they just relate. If someone comes over to me and says "I choose to be nonhuman today, I am nonhuman no matter what other ppl tell me. I genuinely identify as nonhuman." That isn't KFF, that's a nonhuman.

Truly, I'll just go "woah...that's so based". Because truly, what are our differences? We both genuinely identify as nonhuman....and yeah that's about it.

You might say, "they don't experience shifts!" There's nonhumans that don't experience shifts. And there's humans that experience shifts, we call it the "shifter's disease". Basically when a full human researches or is around nonhumans and begins feeling phantoms or feeling nonhuman, despite not being nonhuman. So it isn't exclusive to us.

"They don't have noemata!" There's nonhumans that don't have noemata.

"They don't suffer species dysphoria." Theres nonhumans that don't experience species dysphoria. Also cool transmed rethoric.

"They weren't born with it!" There's nonhumans that become nonhuman later on in life.

"They didn't wish their whole life to be a different species!" And? I can imagine there's some nonhumans that didn't even realize they wanted to be/were a different species.

"It's disrespectful to nonhumans that suffer due to their identity!" Another cool transmed rethoric. It's only disrespectful to you because you're up your own ass and believe that anyone who didn't suffer like you did, that didn't have it as hard as you isn't as valid as yourself. But what you don't realize is by having that belief you are excluding such a large portion of your community.

There's involuntary nonhumans who don't suffer from their identity at all and they're still part of our community.

The line between voluntary and involuntary can get blurry very quickly and hard to describe. But truly, you are no one to say who can use a label that rightfully describes their experiences.

Get real and truly think about why you're so upset at someone having a good faith identity.

[bouquetofalliums]

wilbur soot's statement is the furthest it can be from an apology. its vague, baseless, lacks Any sort of accountability, and feels like some shit chatgpt made up. two pages, four paragraphs and... Not a single Im Sorry. and to think i expected any better of him and i REALLY DID. his response to his other mild controversies were genuine and decent at best. this just lacks Everything. i read the first two sentences and my eyes rolled to the back of my fuckin head

disregarding that the way he downplays his own abuse astounds me. because WE KNOW EVERYTHING. we've heard from the victim and there were Witnesses. you say you were snobbish, disrespectful and selfish, but aside from the biting thing; do you ever address that time you pinned her down to claim you were stronger than her although knowing shelby has gone through past sexual assault? how you weaponized her safe word? how you locked her up in your house for days? how you never cleaned up over yourself and made her do all the work? how you gaslit her and her friends and Humiliated her in front of them ????? no amount of therapy or change you've claimed to have gone through can excuse any of your vile behaviours ESPECIALLY when it comes WITHOUT an apology. you cry about how you've changed to us but you don't care at all! because it was all about fame and money to you, right? us and our words mean so little to you, right?

you could've taken more time to polish this and to come from a place of genuinity and none of us would have complained. rather you put out some flat disingenuous slop and expected us to eat it up. No! youve lost your devoted fanbase wilbur. if you didn't want your shitty actions to come out you shouldn't have been a shitty person in the first place.

whatever . i have more to say but i dont want to waste my words on him. im so so fucking disappointed in that man and i hope to never see his face on the internet ever again . to think i spent the last 3 years and more just blindly supporting and loving his music and content without thinking anything else of it .... i feel so sick . I feel so so sick

sending all the love and support to shelby, lexie, rhana, sophie, and to anyone and all who have been deeply hurt by his actions in any way whatsoever

[pedrospatch]

i wanted to keep my mouth shut, but i can’t.

i genuinely cannot believe how cruel some people can be. bullying others off this platform…over fanfiction of all fucking things? whoever is taking part in this by sending asks to that blog should be ashamed. and to be quite honest, embarrassed to be spending so much time and energy adding fuel to the fire.

i don’t know if this will make a difference, but take it from someone who knows how it feels to want to be friends with someone, but for some reason or another, it just doesn’t pan out. who doesn’t always write the popular tropes that get the most notes. take it from someone who has desired interactions with people i admire and look up to, but it just doesn’t happen. take it from someone who isn’t part of any specific circle of friends.

let’s be real, 99.9% of the hate is coming from jealousy, insecurity, and from what it sounds like, people have a serious chip on their shoulder with writers who aren’t interacting with them and their work.

when you don’t get something you want, that does not give you the right to throw a tantrum and take out your anger and frustrations on other people. that does not give you the right to bring someone’s age, personal, and family life into the mix. it does not give you the right to bully. expecting friendships, explanations, follows, reblogs, whatever it may be—this mindset will get you nowhere. no owes you, or any of us, a thing.

end this big writer/small writer nonsense. no one is getting paid for this. is the validation and that little number on the screen really that important to you? to the point where you are deliberately trying to hurt other people?

if it is, i beg you to go outside and touch grass. and get yourself a helmet while you’re at it because life is tough and if you go out into the real world expecting things from people, it’s going to knock you upside the head.