#der dativ ist dem genitiv sein tod

[unscharf-an-den-raendern]

Der Tat ihr Ort: Der Saar ihre Brücken

Das fleißige Lieschen

Dem Wald sein Herr

Der Schlange ihr Herz

Der Erde ihre Kälte

Dem Geld sein Fluch

[forestlion]

es gibt: 'n (ein/en), 'ne (eine), 'ner (einer), 'nem (einem)... aber 'nes (eines)... vergessen... ungebraucht... wegen 'nes dativs...

[ofallthingsnasty]

hi nasty! idk if you remember but a few months ago I told you how I was learning German in a class and it was hard. so anyways the reason that I even chose that language is because my boyfriend and his family speak German. So last week it was thanksgiving and they don’t really care about that because they said there is no thanksgiving in Germany but I still wanted to have a get together. So I made some desserts and me and my boyfriend go to his family’s house and I tried to speak to them in German and I said the wrong thing and everyone laughed at me and I’m sad about it :( I know I’m being over dramatic but now I feel like there’s no point to even continuing learning because the whole point was for them!! anyways sorry for rambling about this to you tldr: German is hard :(((

Hi!! Yes!! Of course I remember you!!

First of all, I wanna apologize because that is honestly really, really rude. German is really hard and the native speakers know this (see books like 'Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod' and all sorts of jokes and memes) so to make fun of someone who is learning baffles me. Second, you definitely have guts - my last ltr boyfriend's family spoke Spanish at home and in all the years we were together I was too chicken to learn the language because I was scared of fucking it up - it's always hard to muster up the courage to start talking in front of native speakers. I can't imagine how humiliated you feel right now, I'm honestly so sorry :( I wish I could give you a hug right now. Of course I wasn't there and all but I hope your boyfriend has a talk with them/tells them it was rude. "Wie du mir, so ich dir" is a thing in German, too. It's really unacceptable behavior. If you feel like giving up - I hope you don't but I can really understand it. But German is also a fun and whimsical language - and the countries it's spoken in are beautiful and people are stoked when you tell them you've been studying, usually!! Here, let me give you some YouTube links -- like a fairy tale cartoon I grew up with, or one of the bands that was popular in my youth, a popular non-fiction kid's show, and of course, Bernd das Brot. Maybe these can cheer you up a little, tut mir echt leid 😢💕

[dionysia01]

Ohh, what's the book you've started a few times? And why didn't you keep reading, just lack of time or something else?

I'm actually very curious, so I'm gonna ask a few more questions if you don't mind:

1) How did rereading Harry Potter feel like?

2) What fandoms did you read fanfiction for?

3) Any fic recs you'd like to share? =)

Okay… “der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod” it’s actually a German grammar book but in a funny way… yeah it’s a combination between a lack of time and concentration… but it is pretty funny as far as I came so yeah it will eventually be read… just my brain needs a little more time and rest to be able to do that and not the constant challenge and 6 to 7 day week xD

1.) As for rereading Harry Potter… well I can officially say as an Adult I hated Dumbledore by his first appearance… when I first read the books that took a few years… not sure anymore but think it was somewhere between 4 and 5 when I started to question if his ends really justified the means… and well I came to the conclusion they don’t not when he never truly actively seeked true support someone else’s insight or even tried to solve it himself…

add to that as a headmaster ignoring bullying just because the victim is in the house You despise and well being completely blind to obvious abuse… in so many cases… so in short he dropped down in my like scale even further… McGonagalls throne lost a few pieces too… and Snape well that character has my deepest respect now…

2.) hm… oh let me see… Harry potter (duh) and thanks for the chance to nagg you as I would like to read some more Harry Potter fan-fiction :-p

Supergirl, the owl house (started watching that when I was sick and well it’s damn open minded, so kinda cool) some “Bones” thought it’s ancient stuff there just never got to finish it… and thats it I think…

3.) sure : https://archiveofourown.org/works/22185070/chapters/52964074

xD

oh you meant ones that you don’t have to write? Hm… let me see…https://archiveofourown.org/works/30163233

What big claws (to protect you with, my dear) its an owl house thing

[schadenfreudich]

Looking at german neopronouns and it feel like I'm learning german grammar again.

But it is kind of interesting where some pronouns come from. Like there are multiple ones taking from other languages.

Including "they" like, not even changed and two actually changed versions, "dey" and "sey".

I was technically only looking if someone has made a complete german version of "fae". The answer is yes.

Also on other genderneutral terms, I just really like the form that goes "das Freundy". Because 1. das, already existing neutral article, while most other forms use new articles. And 2. Freundy just sounds so funny. Not even "dej Freundu" tops that. Which is the second best, because it also isn't just like a middle thing between masculine and feminine.

[magnolialex]

im opposite to you, english is my native language and german prepostions kill me!!

aaah! but well german in itself is the devil so! don’t worry even germans suck at their grammar

[adito-lang]

Garpegenitiv - a possessive construct in Norwegian with roots in German

While reading the novel En sånn rød amerikansk scooter by Molly Øxnevad, I noticed a grammatical construction for possessives that I hadn't formally learned in my Norwegian studies which reminded me of a possessive construction used in German. So I decided to investigate and want to share my newfound knowledge of what's referred to as the garpegenitiv.

1) Example sentences from the novel

Below are three (parts of) sentences from the novel with the garpegenitiv possessive construction highlighted in bold. Underneath is an possessive construction with the same meaning.

Jeg tar på meg den svarte boxeren og en av Stian sine blå flanellsskorter. ➡️ Stians blå flanellsskorter

Den gamle mannen som sov helt ytterst på mormor sitt rom… ➡️ rommet til mormor / mormors rom

Hanne går opp trappene, en banan-Litago og en taco-baguette i hver sin hånd. ➡️ hver hånd

The construction is ✨ owner + sin/si/sitt/sine + owned object ✨

Without having studied this possessive construction previously, it still made sense to me because of its German equivalent...

2) German's dem-sein possessive construct

Let's start with this basic example: the man's hat

the man = der Mann the hat = der Hut

Using the genitive case to show possession gives you: der Hut des Mannes (the hat - the man's) ➡️ des Mannes is the genitive form of der Mann and therefore shows that the man possesses the hat

Using the dem-sein possessive construct: dem Mann sein Hut (the man - his - hat) ➡️ dem Mann is the dative form of der Mann, sein is the third person male singular "his" and therefore shows the man possesses the hat

⚠️ Option number two is not considered proper grammar in German Standard German, but is common in several German dialects (fun fact: several German dialects don't have a genitive form at all!) as well as in colloquial speech. I remember one time as a teen speaking to one of my mom's friends, a German teacher from Berlin, using this construction - she looked at me in horror 🤣

This construction is deliberately used as a pun in the title of Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod (lit. "The dative is to the genitive its death instead" - "The dative is the genitive's death"), a popular series of books by Bastian Sick that deal with clumsy and often contended use of the German language.

Some other examples of the genitive construct vs. dem-sein construct:

das Haus des Mannes - dem Mann sein Haus

die Handtasche der Frau - der Frau ihre Handtasche

das Zimmer der Oma - der Oma ihr Zimmer

Florians Fahrrad - dem Florian sein Fahrrad

3) Use of the garpegenitiv in Norwegian

Norwegian has its own equivalent of the German dem-sein construct (called "His genitive" in English). You can see how the examples from the novel follow a similar construction in both Norwegian and German:

✨ owner + sin/si/sitt/sine + owned object ✨

The owner does not have to be a person.

Which form of sin to use depends in the number and gender of the owned object.

Hannkjønns bøyningsform: Anna sin bil er blå.

Hunkjønns bøyningsform: "Den gamle kvinnen si helse er dårlig.

Intetkjønns bøyningsform: Marie og Per sitt hus ble nettopp solgt.

Flertalls bøyningsform: Firmaet sine ansatte er ganske produktive.

4) History of the garpegenitiv in Norway

The garpegenetiv began being used in Norway around 1500, becoming common in the Bergen dialect starting in the 16th century and likely spreading from there. It is thought to have come from northern Germany with the Hanseatic League. In fact, garp was a word meaning "braggart"/"loudmouth" that was used to refer to the German merchants in Norway and Sweden in the Middle Ages 😅

Today, the garpegenetiv is most widespread in Western and Northern Norway and dialects spoken there. In written Norwegian, its usage has increased over the years. Språkrådet (The Language Council of Norway) has fully accepted it as correct Norwegian, and NRK also uses it.

It has its share of opponents who believe it to be bad grammar (similarly to the dem-sein construct in German, also considered "wrong"). For example, in 2004 journalist Per Egil Hegge described its usage in his Aftenposten column as childish and incorrect: "På barnespråk kan man ofte også høre «det er min sin spade». Garpegenitiv regnes ikke som korrekt norsk, og det bør den vel heller ikke." Also, proponents of basing Nynorsk on Old Norse have not always been willing to accept the form, since it was introduced to the Norwegian language.

[trainsinanime]

Since I know I have some linguistics nerds among my followers, let me rant about something that annoys me in certain users of the German language: The weird and nonsensical non-discourse around the word “vorprogrammieren”.

“Vorprogrammieren” literally translates as “preprogrammed”, but is most often used to mean something like “inevitable”. Like, “Ein Konflikt ist vorprogrammiert” - “A conflict is inevitable”. So far, so good.

Now, there are a number of people, most notably Bastian Sick, who take issue with this word. Bastian Sick is a writer who is known for language columns and books, most notably “Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod”, named after a common use of language patterns that goes against standard practice. He used to be much more popular 10-15 years ago, but his influence lives on.

In his works, he speaks in humorous form about ways that people use German “incorrectly”, in his view. He sees himself as something of a “language protector”, and frequently decries language that is at odds with the official standard German. He complains about neologisms, anglicisms, translated use of English sentence structures or phrases and so on, and about using grammar incorrectly, like the Dativ and Genitiv thing that I will absolutely not explain. And of course, sometimes he just complains about things that don’t hurt anyone, like “PIN Nummer” (same as “PIN number” in English).

There is a lot of debate about this, at least in academic circles. He does allow for local dialects and variations, but he thinks that all new and non-standard uses of language are bad and should be stopped; that there is a “correct” way to speak German. That’s a very reductive and nonsensical view of language, and frankly just plain unnecessary. And, of course, this view finds a lot of allies among the very conservative crowd, who use “the decline of our language” as yet another reason why supposedly everything in Germany is going downhill and we should stop all this liberal nonsense.

Anyway, with that context out of the way, let’s look at “vorprogrammiert”. Bastian Sick argues that this is a pleonasm. You always program something in advance, so adding the “vor” prefix here, meaning “pre”, is just useless filler. Therefore we shouldn’t use that; we should just say “programmiert”, as in “Konflikt ist programmiert”.

I am not convinced that this is actually a pleonasm, because I think there is at least something like “programming during an event”, especially if we’re talking about e.g. event planning instead of writing computer code.

But that’s not really important. The important part is that “vorprogrammiert” is a well established part of the German language. Yes, it is one that only ever appears in news articles, just like the “well informed circles”, but it’s one that everyone knows.

On the other hand, using “programmiert” to mean “inevitable” is not at all well established. It’s really weird. “Konflikt ist programmiert” just sounds wrong to me. Using it in this way is, in my opinion, a kind of neologism, the thing that Bastian Sick and the people like him hate the most.

If people had decided independently to use “programmiert” instead of “vorprogrammiert”, that would be okay by me. Language changes and we all have to deal with it. But since this use of “programmiert” appeared (as far as I can tell) first and the most in the magazine where Bastian Sick used to publish his columns, I suspect that most people who do so are under the mistaken impression that they are writing extra correctly; the way it’s meant to be written.

Bastian Sick’s day in the timeline has ended, and you see “vorprogrammiert” reclaim more and more of its former rightful ground. But every now and then I still see someone use the “programmiert”, and it always hurts, because this was the wrong result of a battle that wasn’t even worth having in the first place.

Weirdly enough, these “vorprogrammiert” haters seem to never have realized that they can just write “unvermeidbar”, literally “inevitable”, or “absehbar” (”foreseeable”, “to be expected”), and neatly sidestep the whole issue.

Anyway, that’s something that’s been bothering me for at least fifteen years now, and I wanted to get it off my chest.

[fanthaastic]

at least it's tipsy you who can't write german, sober me does not know what german expressions are - it's all Subjekt, Prädikat, Objekt, Punkt - and that's on a good day

and don't forget der genitiv ist dem dativ sein tod and what's up with that whole upper case/ lower case thing

[readerwithalotofplans]

What I read in March

Maschinen wie Ich by Ian McEwan

Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod by Bastian Sick

Die Eishexe by Camilla Läckberg

Der Ball spielende Hund by Agatha Christie

Die Eisprinzessin schläft by Camilla Läckberg

Das Feld by Robert Seethaler

Ich bins, Kitty by Mirjam Pressler

Die Känguru Chroniken by Marc-Uwe Kling

Handbuch für Zeitreisende by Kathrin Passig

Again a lot of books and again only audiobooks. I have a lot of physical books on my imediate tbr but I find it hard to make time to sit down for them. As I already said, audiobooks are much more pratical, as I can listen to them anywhere. 

Tommorow is my first week working fulltime, meaning 40 hours/week, 8,5 hours/day. So far I had been working 30 hours/week since September and 35 hours/week since November. I´m really happy to earn more but I expect to be more tired than usual, working one hour more each day - so no big reading goals for april, just whatever is possible/feasible without stressing myself out. :)

[die-wortschatztruhe]

Week 5 | 2019年7月21日

This week has been too busy again. I didn’t even manage all my Anki reviews. That’s why I reduced the number of new words for Japanese as that’s the deck I neglected most (apart from the Chinese one which I still haven’t really started).

On a more positive note, after five weeks I now know how much time I usually spend on each task. That makes planning a lot easier.

And even more positive: I pretty much stopped procrastinating! I may play a game or two to relax, especially in the evening, but that’s it.

Ελληνικά

reviewed Assimil lessons 26-28

started lesson 3 of Ελληνική γλώσσα

listened to some Greek radio

not study-related: went to a Greek restaurant and had some κολοκυθοκεφτέδες, μπιφτέκια, κριθαράκι and a πολύ νόστιμο αναψυκτικό with basil, lemon and elderflower

中文

some Memrise only (I realized that the Chinese names of the months are rather unimaginitive, but that makes them pretty easy xD ) - now at 100/442 words)

日本語

finished the lesson on せっかく

transcribed a short podcast (level JLPT N5) - There were two words I didn’t understand and I didn’t know how to write several kanji, but overall I’m pleased. After all, I haven’t done anything like that for ages.

Deutsch

continued Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod (now at page 301/750)

* * * * *

Plans for next week

Greek: review Assimil lessons 29-31, finish Ελληνική γλώσσα lesson 3

Japanese: do another transcription, one diary entry

Chinese: (same as last week) Contemporary Chinese Lesson 4, reach 150/442 words on the Memrise course

German: reach page 355 of Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod

- Meta -

[paw-sitivi-tea]

January 3rd, 2019

#new years challenge 2019 Day 4: Language time! 

*long post warning*

How many languages can you speak, which ones exactly and at which level are you?  My first/mother language is Mandarin Chinese. Although I had a six-year-long break from the language when I moved to Austria, I speak it fluently and am capable of translating professional texts and interpreting (though not simultaneously...yet :-P). Writing is a bit slow, but I can manage. Also, did I mention that you never stop learning Chinese? There will always be characters you have not seen and the slang is ever evolving...我也是醉了

English is the second language I learned when I was three, but it was also put on hold when I moved since it was not a priority at that moment (also due to a lack of resources). I picked it up again during my last year in primary school, and haven't stopped learning ever since. Though I am still not as good as a native speaker, I have read and written research papers in English, done translating work and tutor it to earn some pocket money.

German would be the third language I properly learned (my grandpa tried to teach me Russian when I was five, even though he forgot most of it himself :-P). Well, one has to learn if your family suddenly decides to move to a German-speaking country. I started learning basics at six with a tutor, the rest was the work of the Austrian education system. I still have some weak spots in grammar (Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod. My German friends know.). But I finished my final exams with A in German, so I guess I am doing it right. 

Latin was the last to join during high school (=9th grade). We had a horrible start and a bumpy ride, but one year later it just clicked, and I even graduated in this subject. Since I don't really speak it, I am not as good as I was, but it really helps with learning languages and deciphering words from Romance languages. Plus, I have always been interested in Roman and Greek history. (I knew almost every text that we had for exams. Reading dusty old stories isn't useless) 

How much do you practice?

I mostly practice writing Chinese characters and eat some English vocab lists (not literally tho) related to Business Communication. Those lists are translated into German and Chinese so I learn it in all three languages which are a huge help during translating. 

Does one of your resolutions involve languages?

Well, I did say that I wanted to dabble in French (much to the protest of my friends). I have Russian on some language apps just for fun because I find the pronunciation easy. Maybe I should add a resolution concerning learning more Chinese characters...

[calumcest]

i'm glad you're feeling better! and honestly i'm shook? i didn't even know you had that many career possibilities in other countries? like my brain automatically went from reading history and german (both truly great subjects btw) to lehramt.. honestly everything sucks about our education system and i'm sorry it's constricting your plans of moving here :( (pt1)

(pt2) though i can't understand why you'd want to leave london the literal best city in the whole entire world for germany like even with my very big love for berlin i just don't get it 🙈 (in case it isn't obvious: i love london with my entire heart) did you always live there? sendung mit der maus is truly quality tv :) did you end up rewatching it?

(pt3) your masters thesis sounds so interesting! i'd love to know more about it bc i only know a little bit about differences in gay rights between east and west but like next to nothing about how they handled hiv/aids and the influence of language is so fascinating too oh my god that made me crack up 😂 my mum grew up around hohenschönhausen 😅

(pt4) and yes exactly! like some jobs were treated so much more fairly and also what really surprised me was that according to my history teacher the east was actually a bit better/faster than the west in regards to womens rights (for example abortion was legal in the east earlier) okay so from your stories i definitely relate more to the british approach to criticism 😂 i can't tell people their ideas are shit bc i hate confrontation

(pt5) though i too was shooketh about how polite people in the uk are.. like just in a shop or sth everybody was always so nice it was weird 😅 so i get your mum's confusion. also i can't believe you apologise when someone bumps into you?? i mean this particular thing is sth i get very mad about bc i love my personal space but like just in general why do you apologise when it wasn't your fault? like yes i do apologise when i do it but if it's the other person's fault 😶

(pt6) yeah it definitely depends on the situation/person i think for practical reasons i say german first but try to mention berlin asap. aw thank you i appreciate it :) but oh my god i'm actually so sorry that happened to you, like while i love them for nostalgic reasons i agree that pfannkuchen(/berliner) can be so disgusting especially when you're expecting a crepe :( oh YES thank you so much i've been saying this exact thing for years!!

(pt7) like why do we need cases and genders when english works just fine without them? i don't wanna hear about genitiv ever again thank you very much. the correct plural is kakteen and kaktusse just sounds like a profanity and they went and made it an official possibility bc people kept saying it and ever since that i've hated duden with a passion. alex should definitely pay you for the promo & i've seen vegas mentioned on your blog a few times now so i'm gonna listen to it too :) -spoiler twin

thank u!! also i know right trying to explain that in germany was insanity they were like oh so ur working at a school bc u wanna become a teacher? :) and i was like absolutely not and they were like but u study history and german...SNDFJSNKDJF i think its insane that ur expected to choose your whole career path at the age of 18 though thats so stressful! 

omg have you been to london before? also i didnt but i did rewatch an old episode with my parents bc i reminded them about it and we were reminiscing and its STILL as good as i remember it being good old christoph and his green jumper

thank u!! god i dont actually know THAT much about the language yet bc i havent started researching but a few interesting points i’ve picked up are that 1. they always referred to drug users as ‘fixer/fixerinnen’ which is obviusly like...quite a politicised term when they had the option to say like drogenabhängige or sth 2. academics would constantly refer to ‘ansteckungsverdächtigen’ and the verdächtig in that is like...HMMM...not good 3. there was a medical panel held in 1987 in east berlin which used english terminology to describe sexual practices that carried increased risk of hiv transmission (e.g. fisting) and because lots of people didn’t speak english they weren’t actually being educated on what they should be avoiding/doing more safely SO!! theres a lot to look at i havent really started researching like i said i should though but theres already a lot of interseting things in there imo sorry this is probably super boring i just get very excited about it

oh absolutely!! it was because of necessity (the way the ecnomy was set up meant that they needed all available bodies working) but it meant that there were SO many more provisions especially childcare and you can still see that prevailing today theres a huge divide between east/west in terms of maternity leave and childcare 

omg SSNKDJFNKSJDFN honestly i have no idea we just do we literlaly apologise when we bump into lampposts its just an instinct bc u assume that its your fault bc you were in the way so u need to apologise for it but once the kids in germany started being like why the fuck are you apologising i had to physically stop myself apologising SKJDFNSJNDF

thats fair enough go di miss berlin so much i’m so desperate to go back theres stll so many things i havent seen bc ive never stayed longer than a week and its such a rich city you need more time to explore it i miss it so much lord take me back to the alexanderplatz galeria restaurant so i can eat overpriced schnitzel <3 whats your favourite german food? i have to say for me personally linsen & spätzle and maultaschen (my oma is swabian) for nostalgic purposes but marmorkuchen...schnitzel...bratwurst...klöße...weißwurst...brezel...lebkuchen...kaiserschmarrn...plätzchen...theres these lovely plätzchen my mum makes at xmas wait let me ask her what theyre claled i cant describe them. ok apparently theyre just schokoladenplätzchen ‘aber ich hab ein besonderes rezept von der ur-oma ha ha ha!!!!!!!’ (direct quote) GOD now i am desperate to go back to germany we cant get ANY good food here i swear to god . oh you know what i really love as well german junk food god you do junk food like nobody else the chocolate aisle in rewe <3 <3 <3 i miss the ja! chocolate chunk cookies so much

CORRECT i hate cases so much i’m so bad at them i still have no idea if its dem or den half the time how does it make a DIFFERENCE...also correct but the genitiv is dying anyway as we keep being told by our lecturers Der Dativ Ist Dem Genitiv Sein Tod <3 kakteen is a very intersting prospect i never considered that but the more i think about it the more i agree also kaktusse DOES sound like profanity but german swear words just arent that great anyway like fick please that upsets me so much ALSO i hope u enjoyed vegas! 

[dionysia01]

tagged by @ailec-12, thanks you’ll have to read my rambling now xD

Currently reading: well… not much I’m trying to write some currently and spend 28 weeks a year studying (hopefully only till next summer xD) although I have been trying to read “der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod” for a while… just usually either lack time or concentration

Next TBR: No idea….

Last song: oh no that’s too embarrassing even for me… lets put it that way got a godson who’s birthday was celebrated and well… he wished for the silly version of a Christmas song instead of a birthday song…

Last movie: fantastic four

Last show: the worst witch (well one episode xD)

Next on my watch list: nothing what ever irks me when I have time to watch something

Currently working on: well… studying, job, being happy… guess life just in generak

Current obsession: they’re kind of interchangeable right now… anything I was into since I was like 12…

Current fic: well trying to keep it to my wip’s… if I focuse on them I might actually get somewhere… and I’ve got a few marked, none of them are updated regularly but I’m happy whenever there is one

Favourite colour: one’s supposed to have one?

Sweet/savoury/spicy: please don’t make me choose xD

[gamephd-wallpapers]

Play Bastian Sick Der Dativ Ist dem Genitiv Sein Tod (Germany)

Play Bastian Sick Der Dativ Ist dem Genitiv Sein Tod (Germany)

Nominate for Retro Game of the Day!

Play Bastian Sick Der Dativ Ist dem Genitiv Sein Tod (Germany) Online

Play this NDS game in your web browser, here on GamePhD! Use Chrome/Firefox if Internet Explorer doesn’t load the game.

[magnolialex]

sooooo tbh honest ngl english is a germanic language, so anyone who knows english and wants to learn another language would have the easiest time learning german

german has ridiculous grammar rules that even native speakers tend to use wrong