#demelza

[turneradora]

2024 BAFTA London 15 February

Aidan and Eléanor

I will never forget this moment, these reunions were unexpected, they always have the same complicity, our wonderful Poldark couple ❤️💋🌺

"There are beings who make a sun a simple yellow spot. But there are also some that turn a simple yellow spot into a real sun."

Pablo Picasso

[aidanturner]

"P O L D A R K 10 years to the day since we started filming and this beautiful journey began ❤️"

Eleanor Tomlinson, IG

[thoughtsonpoldark]

Hello….As you have, I believe such a keen perspective on so many details of this story, I would like to ask your thoughts on the following: Based on the Poldark series, which provided a visual to Ross’s night with Elizabeth, if Ross acted in a moment of anger and frustration why did he stay with her until the early morning. If the infidelity was a singular act of lust due to anger, why did he stay the whole night until early morning? This is a source of confusion for me when considering the infidelity. It leads you to believe it was more than just a singular “loss of control.” (I don’t believe that Ross loved Elizabeth and his love for Demelza proved much stronger than his infidelity, but this is a gray area for me…). Can you share your thoughts on this?

Hi there, this question regarding Ross Poldark staying overnight with Elizabeth is good one for which I will first set the scene a bit on first.

Ross made some comments to Demelza at the end of ‘Warleggan’ when with a calmer attitude about it she finally questioned him about his night with Elizabeth. I think that one in particular is quite key to my thoughts. He did say “But I wasn’t seeking just pleasure. I was -I suppose in fundamentals I was seeking the equal of what I’d found in you, and it was not there. For me it was not there.” Also just before he lifted Elizabeth and took her to the bed that night he did say “There’s no tomorrow. It doesn’t come. Life is an illusion. Didn’t you know? Let us make the most of the shadow”

Loss of control a segway to Ross's controlled unreason

My understanding is that Ross was angry when he went to see Elizabeth and that he was further provoked by the content of the discussion he was having with Elizabeth. This included her provoking him with an untruth in the heat of the moment where she said that she loved George to distraction. It was after that that he became physical by taking her arm and pinioning it behind her as well as kissing her violently. This was anger and Elizabeth described it as hateful. However where you mention a singular ‘loss of control’ this was not a situation like where Ross beat George up and would be pulled off him and then parted from him to go their own way. Ross’s anger with Elizabeth contained in the privacy of that bedroom together, was a segway which carried him through to a point where he was too far gone to where he was presented with an opportunity with Elizabeth that he would not have got to if not for the anger beforehand.

Graham then narrated that Ross kissed Elizabeth with passion where anger gave this extra relish, until anger was lost. Bearing in mind that Ross had thought in ‘The Twisted Sword’ that Valentine was conceived from anger, frustration and lust on his part, I believe that in this scene the anger was lost to lust which in his unreasonable and destructive state of mind brought Ross to suggest that they make the most of the shadows. So from that loss of control Ross had strayed into a state of mind where he was in control but was unreasonable. It is similar to when his anger had led him to plunder the Warleggan boats when they were shipwrecked after Julia’s death. He felt discomfort at the innocent verdict he was given for that because he did not feel he lost his mind or control but similarly anger had carried him through to unreason and a purposeful destruction where he was very focused and very much in control with that goal and in taking advantage of a situation that had occurred. This is like the same with his angry tide anger which after a loss of control in his scuffle with Monk Adderly over his pursuit of Demelza (and behind that her past infatuation for Hugh Armitage), this led him to ignore good reason not to do a duel with Adderly. Once in ‘The Angry Tide’ when Demelza challenged Ross about why he went to Trenwith to look in at the party being thrown there by Elizabeth and George and how he could have been caught by George and had a scene, he said “….It was a single act of -of unreason, if you like. You have to face the fact-must have faced it long ago- that I am not always a reasonable man.” It is these comments by Ross as written by Graham as an explanation of Ross understanding of himself that do match up with many of Ross’s wild behaviour across the saga. I believe that this unreason normally followed some goad or provocation and after the initial loss of control led him down a questionable path.

The Goad of Curiosity and Unreality

For that situation with the Trenwith party Ross was not charged with anger but a long running resentment and in the moment a curiosity about what was going on at his ancestral home. In the situation with Elizabeth for the May incident it is important to remember unreasonableness had led Ross to a point whereas he admitted to Demelza he had had pleasurable sex with Elizabeth. The context of this not just being anyone must be considered. This was the woman that he had wanted to marry, that he had idealised and he said he was devoted to for 10 years. She was the woman who had ‘got away’ and had an idealised relationship with and who at certain times in the book his curiosity over her had been shared with the reader. For instance, wondering if he loved her because he knew her less, wondering about the electric shock from touching her arm once, and wondering if he did truly love her and if their personalities would clash if they had married. Remember that from the starting point of anger each emotion which had followed for Ross that had led him to this point post sex, now provided him with a massive moment to finally address his 10 year curiosity, to scratch the surface and maybe finally have these questions that may have bugged him, answered. As a man, just like Demelza on a deserted beach with Hugh was subject to temptation and a feeling of unreality as an unnamed woman, it is not that surprising that Ross would be tempted to stay for a bit too if only for curiosity’s sake and to take this experience with the woman he had idealise so long, a bit beyond just sex that post sex.

A chance to dig for a deeper connection equal to his with Demelza

"....in fundamentals I was seeking the equal of what I’d found in you, and it was not there."

Ross to Demelza

Based on Ross’s comments on occasion in the book where he said suggested or said explicitly that sex without emotion was empty, the curiosity in what Ross was looking for in Elizabeth that was in Demelza would not be determined from the sex alone. What Ross probably meant he was looking for in Elizabeth was a deeper connection beyond the physical act, just as he then long had with Demelza. So this would be emotional connectedness, intimacy and that spark that lit his fire as he told Demelza she did for him. Also unlike a brawl with George where he would be separated and go elsewhere, Ross was with Elizabeth in the privacy of her bedroom having just been sexually aroused by her.  In exploring his curiosity for a comparison against Demelza he may then have not left immediately for that reason. In any case with him as the offender and then in a calmer disposition, leaving straightaway might have appeared to be wholly disrespectful. My position is that this was a case of acquaintance rape which especially with the confusion about if Elizabeth was willing in the end and perhaps Elizabeth just not resisting and not treating him like the devil, even if she still did not consent, this would explain why Ross staying was not so strange. But even more so for those that do not agree that any rape occurred. These two had a long running relationship history and regard for each other and so leaving immediately or very soon after such a momentous incident would again be less likely than if it were someone without that relationship background.

I suspect that the atmosphere post sex was probably filled with their differing mixed emotions such as some shell shock for what had just happened, embarrassment, a sense of duty to stay for a bit to reframe, soften and counter the impact of what was essentially a violent taking of Elizabeth (which may or may not have seemed not to be so much against Elizabeth’s will in the end), and to try to kill the awkwardness and make up for bad behaviour. Also Ross likely wanted to see if the pleasure he experienced from the physical aspect of the experience was followed in their togetherness in the aftermath. But he found it was not. It is frustrating that Winston Graham did not describe this scene or account for what they did exactly over the length of time they stayed together into the early hours of the morning. However while we know what time he arrived at Nampara we do not know the exact time he left Trenwith. However I am supposing that their time together however long was strained, weird and lacking in conversation. That seems to be the case based on their respective post event reflections where despite Ross staying for some considerable time, neither of them seemed to know how the other felt about the incident or each other wishes thereafter. Perhaps that indicates superficial level conversation and none of it was referred to.  

A blessing for Ross's processing

If my vision of the kind of post sex scenario between Ross and Elizabeth did occur, I do think that this probably was an important occurrence to help Ross process his feelings for Elizabeth rather than for him to have left immediately and not experienced that bold in your face reality of intimacy or lack of intimacy and lack of connectedness with Elizabeth in the aftermath. Otherwise Ross might have been subject to a sanitised idealised vision which could have troubled Ross in a different way if as an idealised vision might, this made Elizabeth more appealing and competitive against Demelza. So personally I think that in a sense it was helpful for him to have stayed that night for a long period and felt what I believe was awkwardness and emotional disconnectedness. I feel this will have helped Ross to clear away his confusion over time as he grew in understanding and perhaps acceptance about his feelings and where they leaned (given that he had probably expected over so long to feel more out of this world feeling in an intimate experience with Elizabeth). Judging from his response to Demelza’s suggestion that the circumstances were not the most romantic and he might want to try again, he was not interested in that idea and all that had occurred to me was all part of the processing he went through to find where his heart really lay.  

I hope my take does not sound too oddball for you and at least offers some food for thought.

[alatarielqueen]

[londonista59]

Yowza…..Poldark reunion!!!

[fuckyeahcostumedramas]

Eleanor Tomlinson as Demelza in Poldark (TV Series, 2015-2019).

[turnerjade]

[kaipurge]

[notsoblackandwhite101]

I love your fic. So glad to read new chapter. I also love your worldbuilding. Especially family trees. Honestly, I'm dying to know more about Demelza and David. How did she became kinda snotty yet caring, and whether Dylan knew his grandpa, if I remember correctly Dylan might have taken after him when it comes to scifi

I'm glad your enjoying the story!

I can't quiet remember if the boys were born before David passed. If any were, I'd say he likely passed away when Dylan (And possibly Dawkins) were very young. Too young to understand death or its ramifications. However everything he has left behind has had a huge effect on them to this day! His study is full of science and history books. As well as his telescope and some nerd memorabilia here and there! Even if he was gone before they were born his memory has had a lasting impact!

As for Demelza, its a sort of Nature and Nurture situation. A lot of it has to do with who raised her and how. Her parents were a big influences, but so were her Uncle Radcliff and Aunt Dot.

Her mum, Orie (Oreo), is really instrumental. Orie grew up in a poor family and had, what I like to call, terminal eldest daughter syndrome. Not terminal in that it will kill you, but in that it will kill your relationships. Orie's parents were the lowest rung on the social ladder. Both working hard at menial jobs for long hours and very little pay. Her parents were happy though, loving each other and their children. It was just that Orie (Oreo) was the eldest, so when her parents were at work, she was raising her siblings. Unlike Dolly and Dylan years later, she had NO time off because her parents took NO time off. She also started caring for them when she was very young. She was basically parenthesized against her will with zero ability to punish them. Her siblings always acted up when she was caring for them, but became angels when her parents were home, with her parents downplaying the misbehavior they didn't see when Orie complained about it. Orie always had issues with her parents because of this and a few other things. (Including her birth name Oreo, which got her picked on a lot.) So as soon as she turned 18 she left, and hardly talk to any of her family again.

However that childhood made Orie dream of a Cinderella life. Where she'd marry well and never have to cook or clean. Never have to care for a flock of screaming children, with a nice big house. Not to say she'd marry for money alone. She just knew what she wanted. Patch certainly didn't match many of these prerequisites. He wasn't rich, just well off. He didn't have a huge house, he lived in a nice one with his sick parents. He had to do some cooking and cleaning, but it wasn't alot. However he did save her life and was very kind to her. (They met during an air raid and had to take shelter in a doorway together.) At first Orie just volunteered to help him with his block captain work, but they got to now each other, fell in love and married.

It wasn't a fairytale marriage, but it worked very well! Patch was passive and indecisive, but kind. Orie knew what she wanted and wasn't afraid to get it, even if she was a little rough around the edges. They worked together very well, even if it was Patch saying 'Yes dear.' most of the time. When the subject of children came up however, Orie was not interested... at first. She spent her childhood and teenage years raising her siblings, she didn't want to do it all over again as an adult. She was finally enjoying life for dogs sake! However as time went on, Patch's siblings had children.

Orie supposed Little Dipper and Domino were cute... Plus now that she was an adult they actually listen to her. Not to mention Patch was so good with them... hmmm...

Eventually she pulled Patch aside and agreed to have ONE child. Patch was over the moon, he just wanted one anyway! They ended up have Demelza and Patch loved her to bits! Orie went through a weird phase after Demelza was born where she didn't really ... love her baby? Not that she hated Demelza, it was just she didn't feel this instant love that she expected? (This is called the baby blues and its actually really common for many mothers!) After a week though the feelings came and Orie started to bond with Demelza!

Orie was content to let Patch do most of the emotional rearing for Demelza. She took over schooling, manners and other things. She had a pretty good life... but Demelza's could be even better. She was the one who pushed her daughter to climb the social ladder. Not wanting her to be stuck with tons of kids and house work when Demelza grew up. That mixed well with Uncle Radcliff, who had just moved back into the house after a stress stroke. Uncle Radlciff owned a factory and mingled with the upper crust a lot. (He and Orie got along swimmingly, both being a bit cold and grumpy, if well meaning.) Demelza looked up to Uncle Radcliff, whatever he and mum said was gospel just about. This also coincided with Aunt Dot moving in after her husband died suddenly. She was a bit like Patch, a push over and soft spoken. However unlike her three siblings she didn't work. So she took over cooking and cleaning, much to Orie's delight. (Orie got along best with Dot and Radcliff of all of Patch's siblings. Not that she argued with any of them much.) Dot wanted children but never had any, so she enjoyed helping to raise Demelza, which did help soften her demeanor greatly.

So yeah, it was a HUGE mix of four parental figures in her life that caused this. Her friends also play a part in how snooty and uptight she can be. David used to be able to settle her, but he's no longer around...

Oh and fun fact! Demelza was named by her mother. Orie, as I said, was bullied a lot as a child because she was named after a ridiculous, American snack cookie. (Oreo) She insisted that her daughter have a refined, dignified name! So Demelza it was.

(God I love exploring generational trauma with characters!)

[bibou-silver]

[merrom]

Eleanortomlinson

[turneradora]

For the International KISS DAY ❤️💋💋

Our beloved Poldark couple

The most tender, delicate, sensual, romantic KISS in slow motion 👌💋💋

[aidanturner]

Poldark

[thoughtsonpoldark]

It’s their wedding anniversary. 🎉🎉🎉

24th June 1787. 💍

Ross and Demelza

[turnerjade]