#deltarune natures call route

[krispdreemurr]

can you elaborate on your player-angel theory? i'm curious, I haven't seen anyone else talk about this as a possibility

hilariously it's me and matpat. this is the only thing we're aligned on

the angel has been a strongly player aligned figure since Undertale, where its nature changed on either of the major routes to fit either of the two "metaphor for gameplay" characters. deltarune seems to have kicked this into high fucking gear.

the delta rune itself is somewhat telling - a figure above Lightners and Darkners both, beyond both. the light world presents it as a positive figure. very tellingly Alvin's signoff to Kris is "let the Angel's power light your way", which like. that's literally a thing the soul does to banish the dark fountains and also obviously we're. guiding Kris on our chosen way lmao. (in chapter 2 it becomes "may the angel watch over you" which again lmao). meanwhile the prophecy is much more uncertain on it and seems to believe that the angels heaven must be banished - and what would heaven be for us if not the experience of playing Deltarune forever, pursuing any paths we want?

there's a lot of more minor things I could point to. kris in the ch1 walk-around where they get intense or feel strongly abt many player metaphors (the turned off computer, the bead toy) is unsettled by the faceless, unknowable angel doll, in a way they don't seem to have been as a kid (since they made one with huge wings lmao). in unused dialogue (i think?) clover talks abt an angel watching them. there's a lot going on.

and of course, most tellingly - in the route where the player steps in most firmly, exerting itself as a character and influencing Kris and Noelle both, spamton calls one of them (or both of them?) "angel" to their face.

[nodutra19]

Snowgrave Inspirations?

So we all know the Snowgrave route was inspired, or at least has the texture of being as such, by creepypastas in the sense a game is being broken and has an almost gestalt intelligence in its reaction to being so. Beyond specific references and such, what do y'all think specifically inspired it? I imagine shit like Ben Drowned and Godzilla NES factor in, but I want to provide a unique addition:

Persona 1, or more specifically, Revelations: Persona.

Some set dressing for the uninitiated: Persona 1 has two routes:

The main story is the SEBEC Route, which centers around the demon invasion and transformation of Mikage-cho as a result of the machinations and experiments of the shady SEBEC ("Saeki Electronics & Biological & Energy Corporation") and how one Maki Sonomura stands at the center of all this.

That's the story most experience, but there's a harder alternate route called the Snow Queen Quest, or SQQ for short. This route centers around the titular play which was performed at St. Hermelin High, the school of the game, and how the Snow Queen Mask came to be possessed with a vengeful spirit. But in order to activate this quest, you have to take a number of steps after leaving the school to visit Maki but before activating the SEBEC route, which most people do because of the natural flow of the story; while not the most cryptic or elaborate thing I've experienced, you definitely have to go out of your way in order to experience this part of the game.

While the SQQ is similarly hiemal as Snowgrave since the Queen freezes the school over and attempts to sacrifice a pivotal teacher to bring back the "Eternal Night," the main thing I want to talk about is:

The fact that in the original American release of the game, retitled Revelations: Persona, cut this alternate route out. Now, there's a lot to be said about this release of the game and P1 as a whole. For that, I highly recommend Snickety Slice's videos on it from his Compendium series of essays.

As Snickety Slice says in the SQQ portion of video 3A, which focuses on the American localization of the time, no one really knows why it was cut, by which is meant there is no definitive answer. The most popular theory, as he posits, is that this was done to meet the Christmas deadline, which is a tad ironic considering the atmosphere and setting of SQQ. However, you can actually access a tiny bit of it: if you return to the school, you'll see it's disappeared and when you enter it, an FMV of the school surrounded by three towers and a peak plays. Snickety remarks how confusing this must have been for American players at the time since the actual steps to activate the quest were cut out.

With cheats you can access it, but it's a glitchy, nonsensical mess. I mention all this because of the glitchy theme in Deltarune so far, especially as a result of Noelle's seeming magnetism for the unnerving and dark as revealed in the Spamton sweepstakes and Noelle's posts. I think the details of SQQ and Snowgrave are too disprate to draw real parallels so far, but I get the feeling Toby is drawing from its atmosphere, especially the disconcerting aura of the original American release and the stray FMV. As for the glitchiness, I get the feeling it was all concentrated into Spamton, especially given Spamton's role in the game so far.

I haven't gone through P1 in a very long time, so this is where my rambling ends, but perhaps someone else can draw deeper parallels.

The only real problem is I have no idea how much of Megami Tensei Toby Fox has played. He's a weeb of high caliber, so I imagine he's gone through most of it by now, maybe even early Persona, given how UT's and DT's Talk systems were inspired by MegaTen's demon negotiation, which was present in P1 and the P2 duology, which certainly lines up with his age and background. After all, he gave the Earthbound: Halloween Hack that "Shin Megami Tensei Bullshit."

Also everyone here should check out the PSX OST. It has the best leitmotif.

[andreabandrea]

So, I am absolutely not the smartest Undertale or Deltarune theory crafter out there, not by a long shot. But sometimes I think about how I called it with regards to the abilities of the red soul without really trying to.

In early 2018, I wrote a (too-edgy, really) story called 'Unname the Fallen' in which a post-No Mercy route Frisk learned magic when starting a new run through the Underground (in the interest of not rambling about my unfinished fic and making this post even longer, I'll leave it at that).

(I later deleted it because I was embarrassed by the Ow The Edge factor.)

In the fic, Toriel was teaching Frisk how to use their newfound magic.

“I believe a stick is a wonderful idea! The ability to summon multiple will come in handy. Perhaps one day you will encounter multiple dogs who want to play fetch. You’ll need lots of sticks for that,” she said. It took a moment to resume her pedantic, teacherly front rather than her dorky mom side. “… Anyway.”

(Excerpt from Unname the Fallen.)

She taught them that every different soul color has a type of magic associated with it, and that magic can be projected onto other beings.

For example, blue souls could make others turn blue (like the way Papyrus could. Even though he had a monster soul, monsters could use magic associated with soul colors-- like Undyne turning you green, and Muffet turning you purple, and so on).

Now, every soul color in Undertale has a sort of virtue associated with it, right? Cyan is patience, yellow is justice... we learn these from the 'ball game', but we never learn one for the red soul. Fan theories have gone around on the red soul's true nature. 'Hope'... 'Determination'...

And smarter people than me, again, have written about how it's unlikely that the red soul is 'determination', since all human souls have determination. So I interpreted the red soul as 'individuality'. "Try as you might, you continue to be yourself," the ball game says. "Despite everything, it's still you."

"But Andrea," you're saying, "other theory crafters suggested that already! You didn't come up with that!"

You're right, I didn't. But what I did come up with is how 'individuality' could be projected onto another being.

You might think that turning another soul "red" would just give them freedom to move around the box however they want (and possibly to grow little legs and flee from combat). The way I interpreted it is that projecting red soul magic onto a monster is that it gives you control of them. You project your individuality- your will- onto them.

This time, red bathed the monster slowly, spreading like a disease. Its little arms became immobilized, and it tried to run, but then its legs followed suit. Something interesting: now they could feel everything it felt. The pounding in its chest. The wideness of its beady eyes. [...] They moved Ice Cap’s legs as if parts of their own body-- no magic words, no moving their own arms, they were simply able to turn it around and walk it toward them like a remote-controlled toy. Its face was frozen in fear at what was happening to it. They walked it around more, experimentally, even making it jump and crouch.

(Excerpt from 'Unname the Fallen'.)

Using the power of the red soul, Frisk was able to control monsters. It was a power unique to them-- unique to the soul. This, rather than the red soul being 'individuality', is what I think I predicted.

Later that year, in 2018, Deltarune Chapter 1 was released. And we learned that Kris is possessed by the red soul, which is controlling them.

And in 2021, with Deltarune Chapter 2 and the weird route, we learned how the red soul can be used to manipulate monsters-- even when the host is down.

Granted, the red soul didn't literally possess Noelle and make her walk around against her will, but it did command her nonetheless.

I'm sure I'm not the first one who came up with the idea. The Undertale community is full of extremely clever and creative people, and like I said, others had thought of the red soul as 'individuality' before me.

I'm not trying to claim to be the first one to come up with this idea, and I certainly don't think I came up with it before Toby himself or anything. I just remembered my old fic the other day and I thought it was funny, so I wanted to post about it.

"Why are you only posting this if you think it's funny?" Because it's my blog. You're at the circus, you might as well watch the clown dance.

BONUS:

“I am sure you are aware of auras. Most humans cannot see them. They are extensions of the soul. The auras of humans are quite powerful because you have physical forms,” she said.

^ Excerpt from Unname the Fallen, early 2018.

^ Screenshot from Deltarune Chapter 1, late 2018.

The idea of Frisk using magic came from screenshots of early builds of Undertale in which Frisk could use a 'spell' command.

'Talk' was later changed into 'Act', of course, and 'spell' was never implemented. We do know that humans can use magic in some capacity, since they sealed the monsters underground with "a magic spell".

With more chapters of Deltarune upcoming, and many questions still surrounding Hometown and the nature of magic in the light world, I'm excited to see more regarding magic and the red soul in the future.

This has been me rambling over a now-deleted fanfic, thanks for reading if you made it this far.

[undertaleofficial]

Red Soul = Control Theory

here comes my bi-yearly random undertalerune theory infodump

i think the red human soul trait is control. my other guesses are freedom or power but control has the most likelihood in my eyes based on evidence. starting with undertale and then moving onto deltarune, here's my thoughts!

'since when were you the one in control' - the most potent and obvious evidence, this is the emblematic line spoken by chara (first red soul bearer's reanimated self); it not only is one of the few spoken lines canonically confirmed to be from a red soul bearer, it implies that chara has more control than even the player themself over the game at the very end of genocide and this is proven to be true when they hold your game hostage until you willingly hand frisk's soul over to them, finalizing their resurrection, their control, and thus letting them run rampant after future runs

the major(/'true') theme of ALL routes in both undertale and deltarune (so far) is control. ut paci/geno routes are, broadly speaking, to determine which red soul bearer between frisk or chara retains control over frisk's body and personality by the end, taking it from you the player. ut neutral is about flowey engaging in a power struggle with you over controlling the game. when either frisk or chara wins, they exert their control over you in turn - frisk refuses to be called your/chara's name anymore and assumes their own choices post-game, chara is less subtle and outright enforces their domination over you as soon as they have it (as stated above)

as for deltarune, secret bosses are the easiest evidence of this common theme. spamton's fight is about having been taken advantage of - controlled - and his desire for freedom; jevil only THINKS he's free but in actuality he's the opposite of free (and so, is also controlled).

deltarune's main conflicts so far can be summarized as the controlled vs. the controllers in all aspects: dark vs. light/darkners vs. lightners, kris vs. player, noelle vs. kris, secret bosses vs. the person who gave them a deal they couldnt refuse

the best deltarune evidence for control being the red human soul trait is kris, ralsei, and snowgrave - all of these things being interconnected. in the chapter 1 prison break segment, ralsei subtly teaches kris (and consequently the player) how to use their mindlink/manipulation power ('proceed' or control itself, in absence of a canon name for the ability) for the first time and they/you immediately try it on susie to help her solve the puzzles. HOWEVER, this is resisted and nullified by susie, although she hears kris's voice despite being far away from them... sound familiar? this is for a good reason unlike snowgrave, but it is undeniable from this instance that throwing their consciousness around and influencing others is a power of kris's and not just a meta thing.

speaking of snowgrave and ralsei, ralsei is visibly confused when kris refuses to throw their consciousness into the scenes involving noelle and susie (ferris wheel, noelle's room), instead standing there in stark silence with ralsei until the other two return as ralsei is clearly confused. this and telling them how to do it proves without a shadow of a doubt that ralsei is fully aware of the nature of what kris's ability is and in chapter 1 he talks about how darkners exist to serve lightners, enforcing his identity as someone who believes he and other darkners exist to be used or controlled. this is not a 'ralsei is evil' aside im taking you on (yet?), but ralsei may be very misguided or was possibly manipulated/gaslit in a horrifying way that might be similar to noelle post-snowgrave

finally, snowgrave again. we're talking about the obvious bits, the roles between the player, kris, and noelle. it is a chain of control descending in that order. you control kris who controls noelle through you. compared to susie, noelle doesnt resist much, and the thornring increases your control over her by inflicting pain and putting her in a trance (which seems to prevent her from being fully conscious or recognizing her surroundings based on berdly's fight)

actual final: back to undertale one last time, Ball Game is something i did seriously consider for this. its for sure a meme to prevent actually saying what it is, but i would wager that it being red is likely still important knowing toby's sense of humor/metanarrative. what's important in any Ball Game? power isnt always necessary, freedom either. control is ALWAYS important in Ball Games. whether you're tossing a dodgeball, dribbling or dunking a basketball, hitting a tennis ball or baseball, kicking a football field goal or a soccer goal, putting to the hole in golfing... you need control to do all these things, more than anything else, even if you might need power for some of them. what does it mean, why Ball Game? no fuckin clue man.

alright, now that ive listed my reasons... my last thoughts will be on why i dont think Determination is the red soul trait as it is commonly believed to be. its too obvious, its said throughout the ENTIRE game and yet toby has played coy with it, never directly stating that that is what it is. is that not odd for a word and concept said in all routes, constantly? also, every human has tons more determination than any monster, up to the point where it takes the entire underground to even equal one single human soul.

so, what makes the red soul stronger than the other souls, what makes it so powerful that even sans, omega flowey, and literal GOD asriel can't beat the red soul bearer, the latter two possessing SIX OTHER HUMAN SOULS and god azzy having the equivalent of SEVEN via monster souls? it's surely not just an abundance of determination... if red soul bearers were all that powerful (stronger than any other seven human souls combined) by default, regardless of their rarity, monsters wouldn't have had a chance at all in the war to begin with - even if they were beaten, we know it wasnt instantly.

so, think - if it's not just an above-average amount of determination, what else do all three red soul bearing humans in the games we know have in common? us. they have us. we have controlled all three of them at some point in their lives. it's possible that the red soul bearers become much stronger when they're under our control at the cost of basically subjecting themselves to our will, whatever that may be, and it may in turn be possible that those they control become stronger too (like noelle does) at that same cost.

well thats my essay on why the red soul is control. thanks for reading if you did, id add pics to back up my words but im lazy lol so just ask for specific bits if interested and i can go dig em up... i think the prison 'proceed' bit is particularly interesting since you would only realize what it means on a repeat playthrough of chapter 1 post-snowgrave, among other ch 1 oddities

[pqrfi]

Deltarune is to Undertale what Alice Through The Looking Glass is to Alice in Wonderland

hear me out real quick.

we’re talking specifically about the books which i have read and annotated in full. i don’t have my copies present anymore so i undoubtedly missed some things but there are still SO many similarities thematically, visually, and simply storyline wise. maybe deltarune theories could even be crafted from this concept, idk! i just know ive been thinking this since i first got into deltarune and not enough people talk about it.

fun fact: alice in wonderland was originally called “alice’s adventures underground”……………… yall.

(also to preface i wrote this while high for a friend who doesn’t know anything abt utdr, so that’s why everything is explained in full)

beginning with undertale and alice in wonderland:

both stories begin with a child falling through a hole in the ground to a fully functioning world with completely different ways of life and rules of existence. both of these worlds flip common ideas on their heads, example plants talking as flowey in undertale vs the talking tulips in alice in wonderland. animals talk as well and come to life in their own society, example the monsters vs the white rabbit, the bitchy mouse, the walrus and the dodo bird. both the main characters, frisk n alice, don’t reject this (past the initial confusion in alice’s case, but even then it’s more like wonder (lol get it)) and interact with this. they each see problems in the world and move to save it, with frisk trying to break the barrier and save monsters (in pacifist run) and alice protesting the queen of hearts’ unfair actions! wonderland is portrayed as a world ruled with nonsense and chaos, like the aforementioned idea of flipping everything on its head from the world the protags come from. in frisk’s case this was by monsters, who they didn’t know existed, being essentially the ruling (yet also subjugated) class whereas they were accustomed to humans. these monsters came in the portrayal of animals and plants and other whimsical concepts coming to life, just like the nonsense elements of wonderland. a big aspect of alice in wonderland is the importance of imagination, the question of if there is any real meaning to life, and the tedious routines, while undertale literally uses this in its meta element by requiring the player to submerge themselves (with Imagination) into the game particularly in order to empathize w these characters and complete a pacifist run but even also in a genocide run the game compels the player with strong themes and language to imagine it as something real and to feel guilt for those actions. aiw’s (alice in wonderland)’s concept of the meaning of life can be seen in undertale as treating these characters who the player knows are fictional as real beings who deserve to survive simply out of respect for their existence!!!!! and the save points also bring in the question of if that life in the game has meaning if you can just always go back and redo stuff, which is floweys whole dilemma and how he ends up the way he does because he feels there IS no meaning. this is his lack of soul speaking but i think the save points and their repetitiveness really drive it home. aiw’s theme of the loss of a child’s innocence is obvious in undertale because frisk has to do horrible things and/or make terribly hard decisions no matter which route is taken!!! and even choosing to take a specific route IS making those hard decisions. both have themes of death, flowey and the monsters in the genocide run representing these while alice’s transformation and growth out of the mind of a young girl is death in the way the death tarot card represents it: change. the caterpillar’s mitosis or whatever also represents this. in both alternate worlds death doesn’t have the same appearance it does in the “natural world” in undertale monsters disintegrate and in wonderland time does not pass the same as seen by the mad hatter and the hare. OH AND both seem to have the voice of a helping hand guiding the protag through, for alice it is possibly the very concept of adulthood and for frisk it could be so many different people, gaster? chara? asriel? toriel? toriel would very much symbolize the adulthood aspect but in a much more loving sense than alice’s. asriel and chara as well since they have stopped aging and cannot grow anymore. also sans and the cheshire cat mirror each other change my mind you can’t

deltarune to alice through the looking glass:

the simplest comparison between both is the use of chess as visual AND narrative symbolism. in deltarune we see lancer and the king with the spades, the spade knights, the very concept of the KNIGHT as such a huge aspect with so much mystery surrounding them. in the looking glass, alice enters immediately to a living game of chess and throughout the entire story the red and white queen and their fellow chess pieces are significant characters. this is a reach probably but in both of these stories the protag (kris (and susie) vs alice) enter to their respective worlds which ARE DIFFERENT from the previous ones despite similarities through an entry in the Wall which appears normal and then transforms. for kris n susie it is through a door to the closet and for alice it’s through a mirror. no more holes! this wouldn’t matter i dont think if their prequels didnt both have the protags falling Into holes. the chess-piece characters in each story behave like their respective piece: ex, the king in deltarune not appearing combatively until the card kingdom is threatened vs the knights in the looking glass having a protective role. in each story the protag has to face a world threatening element that THEY ARE PROPHESIED to take on, example deltarune ralsei’s tale of kris susie and ralsei being destined to save the world from the dark fountains being opened vs the jabberwockys threat to the entire world of the looking glass and ALICE BEINR PROPHESIED to destroy it. (as a theory, she does complete this, so i’d like to say it hints to kris ralsei and susie doing the same)

deltarune is to undertale as alice through the looking glass is to alice in wonderland:

the biggest dissimilarity here is that alice is the same character and self in both of her stories whereas kris is completely different from frisk (and who knows about any relation to chara or anyone else). yet both worlds that the protags travel to in both of their two different stories are separate from each other, and although perhaps connected somehow are not really on the same plane of existence as the other (but both get mistaken as otherwise). the og story in both udtr and the alice duology tells the story of growing up and maturing through the challenges the protags had to face, whereas it seems like their sequels are telling a story of the challenges you face once you have finished or made it through a lot of this growth and now have to handle the responsibility and strength that comes with it. it’s of course harder to say for the sequels since deltarune isn’t completed but the similarities between deltarune and through the looking glass are HUGE and GLARING so it could almost be used as a basis for theories i find it very hard to believe none of these huge comparisons are intentional

i gotta mention how deltarune/through the looking glass were the stories with the similarities i saw most that inspired this idea, yet once i got into writing i found SO many in undertale. which just kind of drives the point home.

sorry if any of the info is wrong! i don’t usually go here… but someone else pls agree it drives me insane this isn’t talked about much

[autisticsupervillain]

The Angel is an Avatar of the Eye!

The Player on all repeat routes in motivated entirely by a desire to see "what happens if I do X?" Undertale as a game is entirely built around responding to your choices and dragging the Player into it's narrative as much as possible, which naturally peaks everyone's curiosity as to just how far that stretches.

The Genocide Route makes a point of calling out the Angel for doing things just because they can. "And because you can, you have to". To see all the endings and to experience what happens. The game even calls out people who just watch playthroughs as "those sickos who just like to watch".

Despite this, The Angel never intervenes with the world directly. They literally physically can't. Instead, they interact by using Player Characters to act on their behalf, forcibly taking over Frisk and Kris to serve as their representative in the physical world, much as the Ceaseless Watcher would.

Alternatives

The Web

The Angel has a theme of forcibly taking control over the player characters, particularly in Deltarune. This manifests through slowly corrupting Frisk and Chara in the Genocide Route and abusing Noelle through Kris in Snowgrave.

No matter what route the Player goes for, their victory is almost certainly inevitable. They can try again indefinitely with no cost to themselves or others. The machinations of the Angel are just too vast for the mortals they toy with to do anything about, mych as with the Web.

[the-determined-daydream]

"Hi! Welcome! How are you?" 💖o(￣▽￣)ブ🤟

(About/Rules below👇)

About: This blog used to be run by both Flowey and Frisk, and one day Flowey decided to get another blog and donated this one to Frisk, that's why if you look far back enough into the Archives, you'll see them both chilling out and having fun, or being bothered.

Now it's run by Frisk! They live on the surface with their best friend, Flowey, and because both Asgore and Toriel are still divorced but both have shared custody, the teens switch houses every month or so.

They have dreams of going to college and eventually becoming the next Ambassador for the monsters, they currently go to a public high school.

Frisk is also Mettaton's and Papyrus's protégé and have learned A LOT from both of them and it has made Frisk more flirty and chatty.

At 16 years old, Flowey and Frisk met a haunted creature who they call ??? or the Doctor (created by Complex) an Amalgamate from another timeline. The Doctor is a powerful mad scientist, who had long ago done something unspeakable which resulted in them being an Amalgamation (there have been several big hints as to who they may be), they have been keeping in contact with both of Flowey and Frisk ever since their introduction, donating their burned black book to Frisk, watching the two teen's lives from afar, the Doctor also seems to have VERY big plans for Suzy (from Undertale and not quite Deltarune(?)

Fun fact: After a past incident involving Gaster, Frisk can speak in Wing Ding, feel free to chat it up hands style.

Fun fact 2: Frisk is happily dating someone but it's a big secret and they'll never reveal who it is, if you look closely, you can make a good guess who it is.

Most important fact: They live the Sunshine Route timeline or the Sunshine Route AU, it was born from my fanfic series, Growing Pains, which is where the Frisk, Flowey, and River Person blogs are very loosely based on.

(...Well, the River Person blog is from a (discontinued?) fanfic/AU, but it exists quietly within the same timeline.)

Rules:

Frisk is 17 and loves romance and it IS their blog, so they miiighht talk about things that will be close to being risqué but it'll never be NSFW, they're mindful of children watching.

So no NSFW topics!

Unless it happens naturally, no violence, or attacking Frisk...it'll make them sad/disappointed, not mad and they won't attack back.

I usually prefer to keep things simple for my sanity; and prefer to have the role plays be one on one, so unless you have a very good idea or want to do something helpful, please don't ask to join.

I also prefer to keep things light and funny, something to cheer myself and others up, but I'll allow depressing and dark things to happen if it's well written.

That's all, have a great day!

[beethovenus]

UT/DR: The "Determined Monsters" Crackpot Theory

Okay, so I'm going to make a crackpot theory regarding the relationship between determination and monsters in both Undertale and Deltarune, based on some observations I made.

Full disclosure: UT and DR are two entirely different universes -- with UT as a finished game, and DR incomplete with only two chapters thus far -- hence why I'm calling this a crackpot theory, as it's based on assumptions and doesn't intend to be anything concrete or definitive.

That being said, here are some observations I've made!

I feel like it's been widely accepted that monsters in Undertale carry no determination, whereas with humans it's an intrinsic quality -- considering human SOULs have significantly higher concentrations of DT, and only certain monsters (i.e. Undyne) are noted to have it naturally.

But what if this was all based on a misconception?

I propose the following:

ALL monsters have determination, just at a significantly lower concentration than that of humans (a miniscule amount.)

The "Fallen Down" state is caused by a lack or absence of determination.

Due to monsters' bodies and SOULs being in tune with one another -- and inherently magical-based forms -- a monster's level of determination can directly correlate with their actual willpower.

My reasoning and further proposals:

(These were originally a bullet point list, but I separated them for improved readability. If these seem like scattered points, that's why.)

Determination is a substance which gives human SOULs the ability to persist far after death of the body. Likewise, boss monster SOULs can persist just briefly after death -- indicating potential determination, even miniscule.

Boss monsters (Toriel and Asgore) appear to have a stronger sense of déjà vu than regular monsters (excluding some of the main cast.) Coupled with Asgore's strongly implied knowledge of resets (nodding in response to you telling he's killed you), this could be also in part due to boss monsters having a higher concentration of determination than other monsters.

It'd be incredibly odd for Undyne to be the only monster with determination. I feel that because of how naturally determined she is to seek revenge on humanity -- and in the Geno route, to stop you from killing everyone she loves -- she has a MUCH larger concentration than other monsters, allowing her to persist after death.

It would make sense if monsters naturally had determination in small quantities, as a means of maintaining their physical forms. They think, therefore they are, and magic plus determination equals something solid.

If I recall correctly, it's stated that monsters who grow old or lose hope enter the "Fallen Down" state -- essentially, they lose their determination from natural causes, due to their bodies being attuned to their emotional state and willpower.

The reason the monsters injected with determination melted in Undertale wasn't the presence of DT, but rather the significantly high concentration of it. These are monsters who would have lost all of their DT and entered a comatose state -- suddenly reintroducing DT to them, and in a quantity much higher than they could even handle, would cause their forms to melt.

Additionally, the reason the amalgamates combined together, rather than just outright melting, is because they required stability to their forms. Because their magical forms cannot sustain themselves with this much DT, they needed to condense themselves into forms that had more physicality to them to handle this quantity.

In Deltarune, it's outright stated by Queen that all lightners possess determination -- humans and monsters. *1 It's also implied that monster biology rules from Undertale carry over -- humans having physical forms of flesh and blood, with monsters being made of magic. *2

Footnotes and Clarifications:

Like I said before, Undertale and Deltarune are inherently different universes. This isn't exactly a concrete point, and I don't mean for it to be -- just pointing this out, since both universes share a lot of similarities when it comes to their basic rules and such.

In Deltarune's Weird Route, Berdly does not die. He's effectively left in a comatose state, where his self in the Dark World is frozen -- and that Dark World subsequently destroyed, which could potentially leave him trapped in this state permanently.

Curious to hear people's thoughts on this!

[abyssembraced]

Me explaining the abilities Rouxls has as the Rules Card has been long overdue, so here it is now! Better late than never, I suppose.

Rouxls has two separate powers at his disposal, the first and simplest of these being his teleportation. He, of course, does this several times in-game, and is capable of transporting both himself and other people (though teleporting other people takes more effort and energy than it does for himself, and teleporting multiple people at one time is the most difficult). Rouxls can teleport himself to anywhere he has physically seen in-person and knows the general location of.

His other ability is far more interesting, though, and is the actual focus of this post. I call it "House Rules".

More info below:

With House Rules, Rouxls is able to use the magic he has as the Rules Card to create his own rules for himself or other people. Hence its name! He's quite literally creating his own house rules for the world and game that is Deltarune.

Rouxls has a certain number of "spell slots" available to him to create House Rules with, and the amount of slots an individual rule takes up varies depending on how difficult it is to enforce. He doesn't need to "recharge" these slots like you would for spell slots in D&D—it's just a limit to the amount of House Rules he can keep active at one time (so it works more like Charm Notches in Hollow Knight). I haven't decided exactly how many spell slots Rouxls has though.

The exact "cost" of a single House Rule can also fluctuate based on the people affected by it. If everyone involved agrees to the rule, then it takes less magic for Rouxls to keep it up. On the other hand, though, if Rouxls tries to create a rule that nobody else wants, then it'll be extremely hard for him to keep it active. He might still be able to force it into existence if he really wants to, but depending on the House Rule's "base cost" and how opposed to it everyone else is, it might take all of Rouxls' spell slots just to uphold that one rule. Similar to when you're playing with house rules in a real card or board game!

Rouxls keeps this aspect of his ability tightly under wraps, though. After all, if his opponents knew they could influence his House Rules and potentially shut down anything he tries to do, then that leaves him basically helpless and unable to do anything beyond just teleporting away. Most people don't even know that Rouxls can create House Rules at all. As of the end of Chapter 2, the only people he's told about the ability are the King of Spades (since that's why he hired Rouxls), Lancer (just from spending a lot of time around Rouxls), and possibly Queen (maybe Rouxls tried to impress her with his powers in the hopes of getting her to hire him). And nobody knows about the "opposing the rule makes it harder for Rouxls to create it" part of it.

In order to create a new House Rule, Rouxls must 1) Activate his magic in some way with the intent of creating a new rule, and 2) Verbally state the rule that is being created out loud. Because of the activation requirement, Rouxls will never create a House Rule by accident just by speaking normally. Deleting any of his existing House Rules can be done silently, on Rouxls' command at any time he pleases.

For example, Rouxls' ability to float is not actually something he can naturally do—he's granted himself that power using his House Rules. It's something he keeps active pretty much permanently, since this rule in particular hardly costs any of his magic.

While in the Cyber World in Chapter 2, Rouxls has one other House Rule active: one that makes him immune to the statue-fication that is supposed to occur from being in a different Dark World. This is why he takes so much longer to turn to stone compared to Lancer (and never does fully turn) in the normal route, and why when it does start to happen, it's instantaneous. Upholding this rule is, of course, extremely hard to do, given that it goes directly against how the Dark World works. That one House Rule takes up practically all of his power, with just enough left to let him keep his floating ability. At the end of his fight, however, he tries to use House Rules yet again, in order to show off his "REALE Power". Of course, all of his spell slots are already full, forcing him to dismiss the statue-immunity rule to make room for the new one (which he did without thinking about the consequences at all dgdgshf). By that point, enough time had already passed that the only thing keeping Rouxls from becoming a statue was his House Rule, so with that gone, he started turning to stone immediately and rapidly. Luckily for him, he was able to at least preserve his head by cancelling the other House Rule (and perhaps also his floating one out of panic, which is why he crashed to the ground soon afterward) and reactivating his immunity one quickly enough, which he kept activated until he was returned to Castle Town.

Generally, when creating House Rules that directly affect a person (be it himself or someone else), he can only impact them physically, not mentally or emotionally. For  example, Rouxls would able to change someone's stats during a battle. But, he can't do something like "New Rule: Swatch now wants to make me Butler Supremeth!". He's got rule-making abilities, not mind control dgshshsf.

Also, as you could probably guess, different House Rules can have similar effects, but notably different costs to maintain them. For example, it is much easier to uphold a rule that claims "I, Rouxls Kaard, now have 5 additional points of defence", compared to a rule that says "Kris now has 5 less points of attack", since Kris has a much greater ability to reject a rule that directly affects them. So Rouxls has to be smart with the House Rules he creates if he wants to be efficient with his spell slots (and he usually is, since he's had these powers all his life and is accustomed to how they work).

So yes! Those are the two abilities Rouxls has. As you may have noticed, that means that he isn't capable of any sort of offensive magic. House Rules makes him an extremely useful support unit—likely one of, if not the best at it among all Darkners. But, that's all he is, and he's pretty much useless in a fight if he doesn't have some sort of ally or weapon that can do damage for him. That's why in Chapter 1, he summons a buffed up K. Round to fight Kris and co. instead of doing it himself. And in Chapter 2, the Thrash Machine is the one actually attacking most of the time. The one exception to this is the box attack Rouxls uses, but those aren't made of magic at all. The sprites are exactly the same as the puzzle boxes he has in the overworld. He's just throwing regular-ass boxes at you because there's nothing else he can do lmao.

I was planning on including my thoughts on what a secret boss-type fight against Rouxls would be like, but this post is already super long so I'm just gonna make that its own separate post. And that one'll go up... Eventually dgsgshs

[liliallowed]

The fact that Chara actually calls the player a Demon in the second genocide route makes sense for why the Player's personally made vessel would look like a demon. Cool reference!

I love your short fics!

(About the newest short fic btw)

well, they've been demoted to something beyond even the demon king as far as dust's concerned.

he doesn't believe in angels or demons or whatever nonsense was the deltarune prophecy supposed to be.

but the world demon does simplify a lot of needless explanation. he ironically calls them human with some heavy quotation and emphasis on it that's sarcastic.

kinda like a ridiculing pet name.

"human. something you can pretend to be but will never be able to fully become."

he's mocking them. but still calls the human. just human. not their name, not their identity...

when faced with them it's just "human".

he's not interested in knowing it's name or it's goal. he's done with it's bullshit. he doesn't care.

and well? player's inputted name is AAA because they couldn't be bothered to come up with a name. and he knows that's not their name anyway. so why even ask?

though of he does mean business... or is desperate enough to call for THEIR HELP in some... very small chance...

he'd call them "______".

of course it's just a blank characterless sheet with six empty slots. but to them? that's DIFFERENT. THAT will instantly have them flipping the dynamic or throw whatever sadistic game the have away because they know HE'S ABOUT TO BREAK.

they don't want him to break. so if he actually calls out to them they'll instantly drop everything and do anything ANYTHING to make things better. because they know unless SOMETHING HORRIBLE is happening dust isn't going to put his pride aside to even grace them with a name.

if he calls their name, they'll be there. even if it's so little, even if they don't really care... they can't lose him. they WON'T lose him. no matter what reset they have to pay or whatever hacking there is they'll tear through time to get there.

though... they'll probably go back to their evil ways when things calm down...

what I'm saying is that player only does bad things when they know there's no consequences or that they canBEND the rules.

if things get serious (like dust being erased from existence) their whole playful apathetic nature will get thrown off the window and they'll go head to head with whatever FOOL DATED TO MESS WITH THEIR TOY.

they're extremely protective and caring when they deem events as ACTUALLY harmful...

which is... a bit surprising. even for them.

[krispdreemurr]

I don't think player-centric sexuality can be criticized without criticizing male-as-default. Even ostensibly gender-neutral protagonists will be treated as male if the writer setup a scenario that can only work if the protagonist is A) male and B) alienated from women the way a straight man would be. But even still, a lot of assumptions about the audience are built in. Things like gacha or harems having a majority of female characters to collect confessions from, with the minority of male characters being aloof and professional. 1/???

In Snowgrave we force Kris & Noelle into specifically ungendered roles. Noelle is the mage, the girl, soft & malleable - she's also the offense & the stoic one in the face of calamity. Kris is the knight, the human, the commander - they're also Noelle's support & the one who calls for help throughout the route. But I don't think "Snowgrave Kriselle is heterosexual" overrides that. Like, throughout the Weird Route we pigeonhole Kris & Noelle into a pair of functional but imbalanced & codependent roles, isolated from everyone else, and naturalize it through ideas of Love, Marriage, & responsibility. Is that not related?

look, I'm going to be direct about a doylist aspect here that I haven't wanted to bring up as strongly because I didn't want to just come off as snarky: I don't think toby fox, who I suspect accidentally stumbled into writing nb characters to begin with and who has been consistently kind of bad about it, is deliberately writing anything about male as default or the horrors of misgendering. further, i don't particularly want to keep reading people finding reasons to call Kris male in terms of story roles or whatever, because it feels bad and I think people are way too quick to go to male as default.

i do think a lot of what "default RPG protagonist" entails closely overlaps with a heterosexual male view of the world (god knows I've talked w people about the quiet lesbian amusement when a game has a character creator but still has all the women fawn over you), and I do think that has bled into deltarune's critique; toby fox writes a stock RPG romance gone wrong, and that involves the bashful healer girl (who is none of those things) and the strong-willed protagonist (who is none of those things). but i just think reading Kris' role in it as "male" isn't quite how I take it, beyond the background radiation of the world where anything neutral or null will lean male.

snowgrave brings in signifiers of marriage like the rings, and then has them treated as flat objects to be given for bonus affection and better stats. there's no actual bond formed between Noelle and Kris by them giving her a ring, and in fact one ring is traded for another even worse one the second that becomes possible. the relationship is reduced down to equipment and grinding and saying the correct things in the correct order. it's a critique of the flatness of relationships in video games first and foremost, and I think the ways it feels heterosexual are mainly just background radiation

[zombvibes]

aight I gotta deltarune theory and since I got jack shit followers Im sending it in an ask to get it out there and since you got almost as much utdr brainrot as I do your you're the lucky host for my parasite ramblings alright here we go: I don't trust Trashy wait wait hear me out. So looking at the secret bosses so far, we seem to have a theory of abandonment going, right? Spamton's pretty explicit with being an email scammer that no one falls for, and Jevil is the joker card that often gets discarded before a card game starts. So far nothing that the fandom hasn't already figured out, no new ground being broken. Assuming that this trend follows, and knowing Toby's love for recurring themes this is definitely possible, we can expect each of the next bosses to also be abandoned things. Now lets look at Trashy. What is he? Thats right, a trash can. What could possibly be considered more abandoned, more discarded, than literal trash? The very same trash that makes up his stinky stinky innards. Now I know what you might be thinking, this is clearly a coincidence, Trashy is just a silly little joke character made to fit in with his natural environment, a garbage dump. He has a few funny little lines, and then you fuck off and he is left in the trash where he belongs, right? Its not like he does anything strange or suspicious, right? Its not like he has anything about him that makes him unique or notable, right? Right? Well if you said yes, than congratulations because you are wrong. At the end of chapter 2, when you fall into the castle town dark world, normally all the npc's that you recruited all enter the town and become new citizens. However, this doesn't happen during the snowgrave route, where everyone is either too cold or too affraid to join you, except for Queen of course. Oh, and Trashy. He is there. Somehow. Making him one of only two characters that joins castle town no matter what choices you make. The other being the central most plot relevant darkener in chapter 2. His arrival is played off as a joke, but given the general mood for the rest of the route it feels really odd and out of place. Why did Toby decide to randomly throw in a funny joke right after you essentially just finished Deltarunes genocide route? Take it away and the whole scene flows just as well, if not better. No, Toby went out of his way to make sure that we knew Trashy survived Noelles gamer girl moment, and that he was alive and well in castle town, and I for one am deeply suspicious of why. Look, am I saying that Trashy is for certain some sinister mastermind, or a future secret boss? No. But if he does turn out to be important in the future, I fucking called it.

I just wanted to let you know that I woke up to this ask @ 6am (6:00), read it and didn’t register anything. It’s currently 1pm (13:00) and I read it again and I still didn’t register everything but I, at least, understand where you’re coming from. 100% Disagree though.

However, I’m giving you and anyone else who agrees with you full permission to laugh at me in my inbox when Trashy does become important in some way shape or form.

[ariapmdeol]

please be free and post your coe analysis i want to see it

OK SO. THIS IS THE METAFICTION THEORY/ANALYSIS, AND INVOLVES SPOILERS FOR THE MOST RECENTLY TRANSLATED PART OF THE DLC (part 5), ALONG WITH SPOILERS FOR. THE ENTIRE BASE GAME. it has nothing from beyond that, to the best of my knowledge (though it implies things for future content). This ended up as longer than expected oops. I will make another analysis post on specific moments that stood out to me at some point but this one is specifically for metafiction stuff!

I want to do character analysis posts at some point as well, so if you have any suggestions for who i should do first please lmk! :D

relevant image:

OK SO. METAFICTION is a type of fiction that consistently reminds the audience that it is, in fact, fiction. I've been also using this term to stories in which the medium through which it is told is relevant to the story and narrative. One example of this would be DELTARUNE. The soul (player) is separate from the protagonist (Kris), and the in game mechanics are relevant as well (re: snowgrave). it's Meta in the sense that it challenges the reader/player to reconsider what we see as normal from a gameplay standpoint vs what is a part of the STORY.

I BELIEVE that Cell of Empireo uses metafiction as a part of it's narrative, and that the structure of the game itself is relevant to the remainder of the game. Cell of Empireo, ESPECIALLY in the DLC, makes use of the fact that IT IS A GAME as a major plot thread (i predict this to be more relevant in future DLC parts/hermits room/interlude). I've talked about this a little in the other COE theory post but. this is a DEDICATED analysis so i can go into DETAIL.

one of the earlier and most explicit hints we get of this meta narrative in COE is in chapter 6 part 2 of the eng translation. THIS DOCUMENT HERE is in the Empyrean Heaven Research Institute, and is listed without an author.

I BELIEVE the author of this document is NONE OTHER than SEODORE RIDDLE. It's either him or Mutei, but Mutei was uninvolved with the EHRI so it HAS to be Seodore. I am pretty sure he's aware of the true nature of 'this world' (the ingame world).

specifically, by referring to the 'source code of the world', I don't think they meant this metaphorically. i think they meant this LITERALLY. LITERALLY THE SOURCE CODE OF THE GAME THAT WE ARE PLAYING.

I want to specifically point out the Purple text at the end of S, before S+. it reads:

"Oh, what a surprise. Well, congratulations! I hadn't thought it possible to come to this domain without going through anything else. ......Nn? Aah, who are you? Well, no need to act so defensive. That aside. It'd be nice if hope could be found in that 'this was a process'?" "Well, but this is a matter of will. No matter how God interferes. Without one to receive it, God's love can't be written out. So, please tell me. Your 'will'." "'Do you accept God's love?'"

By selecting yes, we see the three rings of light (i wonder if its relevant that there are THREE of them...) and get sent back to our first meeting with Hatsutori. This. this is META. the game itself plays with our expectations of a 'credits' scene and uses it to PUSH FORWARD THE NARRATIVE. it breaks what is expected as a PART OF THE GAME.

It's more than just a bonus scene too; the fact that S route happened is a PART of the story as well! Haruki specifically says THIS

Hatsutori: Once again, good day. Haruki Atou-kun. This is our first time meeting, shall I say. Atou: No....... This isn't our first time.

He IS AWARE of the S route. Hatsutori calls it "arrival."

Why is the term "Arrival" important? because that is what we call the endings! the translation calls them "Arrival Points"! This links us back to the SAVE FILES OF THE GAME. Haruki is AWARE of the S route on a subconscious level. This can also link to why the game has hidden timers and route info as well-- by playing multiple times, us the player AND Haruki the character know more of whats going on! That's why it's so hard to get the S ending first try, because it relies on the PLAYER'S knowledge of what to do! We are a PART of Atou's story beyond just controlling his actions!

The three rings of light.... Three books of the Divine Comedy (Inferno Purgatorio Paradiso).... Which connects us back to "the Divine Comedy is a reality left in this world." I need to think more on what this could mean. I think this has to do with accessing the 'source code' but either way it is meta.

Mutei's document (the only one we've seen so far) expands on this when we get to see it in DLC part 5. I will put the document below (note that this is the only mutei doc we've seen in the eng TL so far. i am so desperate to understand this man so fucking bad. the second i understand whats going on with him its over for all of you).

he says this AS A WRITER. SEODORE is using this info to REWRITE the definitions of the world, and edit the source code. This is why he has that glitchy effect whenever he uses Brugmansia: he is LITERALLY rewriting the code. I think Seodore is the only one TRULY aware of this whole world as a 'story', along with Mutei.

HOWEVER. I believe that these rewrites are limited to what is REALISTIC. I believe that each COE route is a different pseudo-universe as described in Mutei's document. The minor changes build up to a butterfly effect! It's like using save files to change your actions! to reset to try to save everyone! We still follow the world's definitions, but are changing the outcome using information we've gained!

The above screenshots... The line about playthings makes me think that seo is aware of the Source code. We the player are a level above the characters, looking into their little fictional world. I think seodore wants to 'end the game'. Make it so the player CAN'T keep looping things and playing over and over. Seo is right, from his perspective people AREN'T playthings. but to us? the player? These are FICTIONAL characters in a FICTIONAL world and seodore is RESISTING that. he wants the story to END.

I believe Sanemitsu and Atou both have the power to do this as well (Harada factor). I touched on this in the other COE post but I swear to god it makes sense. Atou SPECIFICALLY acknowledges that the scenario Hatsutori expected has been REWRITTEN (again calling back to the WRITER themes). Sanemitsu... i will write him his own analysis post bc i love him

ATOU SPECIFICALLY CALLS OUT THE META ASPECT BY ACKNOWLEDGING THIS WHOLE THING AS A 'FINALE OF A PLAY'. HE HAS HIMSELF HAS DONE THE BEST HE CAN. ITS META FICTION. ITS LITERALLY META. ATOU IS REMINDING US THAT THIS IS INDEED A GAME AND IS FICTION which is DOUBLE interesting bc HE KNOWS!!! ATOU KNOWS AND HE DOESNT AT THE SAME TIME!!

anyways i cannot wait to see where the story goes! i am sane and normal over this game (lying).

[mrfandomgage]

So, way back when in 2015, Undertale came out, right? I was 13-14, but if I remember right, I was in Middle School, and one of my friends made an OC for it. I didn't know what it was so I asked about it, and I vaguely remembered Markiplier's first 2 episodes on it, before the fans harassed him into streaming the entire game. I wondered why Mark didn't play it, but I heard JackSepticEye played it, and because I was a kid without money, of course I watched him play it.

After watching Jack's playthrough, I fell in love, and basically watched everything I could about it. Learning all its lore, watching fan dubs of comics, wondering why Sr Pelo made that April Fools Genocide route (this is before I knew how Subtitles worked, and JFC when I learned that a lot of content creators were being harassed I got upset). I joined fan groups, joined Amino (hell hole), drew shitty art (I do leagues better than my old art, still shit tho), and because I loved AUs and lacked art skills, I started writing more often because of it. Hell, "Mr Fandom" was a name I made up because I was into Undertale, FNAF, My... that one I don't like talking about, but I wanted to express my interests in everything and embrace it. Gage Fandom as a name and character came later.

I have so many positive experiences with Undertale and its community, not to say it's all sunshine, but it definitely helped me out a bit. So why am I tired of it? Simple. I was obsessed with it since I was 13-14. A lot of my thoughts and ideas were about Undertale, I am 21 now and edging towards 22. I once was talking to my little sibling, and they called it a Hyper fixation, I found that wrong, because this wasn't a short term thing like those can be, I've been into this thing for nearly 9 years now. I'm just growing tired of thinking about it all the time. Don't get me wrong, if you wanna know anything about Undertale, one of the many games in my life that made me a furry, I can still recall most of it's lore, if something is only fanon or canon, if it's a myth, or even those messages Toby Fox made for when people inevitably shared them on the internet, good going Toby, you made a game interesting that the secrets that say people wouldn't be impressed with if they were put on the internet, people were legitimately impressed and made animations about that, good on.

I will tell you, Undertale is a fantastic game, it inspired me to write stories and even to an extent practice drawing (tho I definitely started drawing more when I got into HomeStuck around 2018, and I definitely started taking my own artwork a bit more seriously after accepting I'm a furry). I may have a hard time ever finishing a story I write, but I got into it because of Undertale and its writing.

Oh, and let's not forget Deltarune. I love it for some of the same reasons I do Undertale, Character writing is one of my favorite subjects (this is Kinda why I like Homestuck, a lot of characters are well written, even if also as much aren't, lol). Yes this is why most of my writings on this blog are of characters talking to each other, I'm primarily practicing Dialogue and trying to get to a point where it feels natural.

I love Undertale. I do not want to think about Undertale for a while.

[quixtrix]

actually ur kinda right but im hitting you with the WRONG hammer as well. lemme explain the components to making a perfect sans that rayman checks off: - silly jokey guy - unconventionally attractive/monster fuckers LOVE this shit - he cares but hes not too caring.. he got the bad boy caring nature if that makes sense - made you forget about the main character - alt versions of himself

which rayman checks off some of these major boxes but theres also: - INSANE MISCHARACTERISATION BY FANDOM !! - MYSTERY!! MYSTERYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HOLY FUCKING SHIT MYSTERY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - FUCKASS POWERFUL ABILITIES - SENSE OF DUTY like jesus christ this guy has such a sense of duty like its in the sense that he would do it for others, but never for his own personal self. like shit if he did it for himself then genocide route we would have never gotten past snowdin after papyrus got murked - A Profound Air of Sadness to him. Never rage, always defeat - the laidback attitude - I HAVENT SEEN FAKEMAN AND RAYMAN FUCKING YET SO !!! NO FANCHILD EITHER !!!!! - FOURTH WALL BREAKING !! dont tell me rayman has gone thru some shit that i put in the list above as well, i got receipts; rayman has been consistently characterised and not flanderised like sans has been. sans' attributes through the entire undertale fandom shelf life have been exaggerated to almost insane degrees. he has a brother he cares about BUT he wont go into a rage jus because papyrus is dead. he has knowledge that other characters dont have for some reason BUT it does not mean he is all knowing. he is powerful BUT he never pulls out his power unless hes QUITE LITERALLY THE LAST MONSTER ALIVE BESIDES ASGORE. rayman has mystery to him, yes, but he moreso serves to add to the mystery of Eden Corp. and their abilities, not to his own backstory. sans' and papyrus were literally spawned in somehow and are still major topics within undertale and deltarune theories. sans adds onto to the world while making you question about him and other unexplained undertale parts (eg. the shed, w.d. gaster, the secret lab), because there is connections here but its too foggy to figure out. the mystery is also a major contributor to his mischaracterisation im ngl. rayman does do the same in a way, but you are questioning only eden, not rayman. his story is cut and dry. another major allure of sans is his powers! his powers are unexpected but make sense in a way for him. while yes, you can make a case for rayman pulling up with tommy guns, you can also argue that hes spoiled by eden, and no one would care if he bought some guns. like seriously. its america. it would be slightly more disconcerting if a celebrity didnt have a means to protect himself. plus, in any other route you NEVER fight sans. he is strictly an npc until he is pushed to fight because he's quite literally the last monster there. everyone else is either dead, or evacuated. if sans doesnt stop you, then who else will? for sense of duty, yes, rayman does share this attribute but the thing is, its what drives him. sans' sense of duty is more out of a "eh. why not" kind of thing. he always does it for someone else, never for himself. he does not care if he also benefits from it due to some kinda depression state thanks to resets. rayman does it for the collective, benefiting himself and those like him. for fourth wall breaking, honestly i put it because its one of the most iconic things that sans does. he does it when we first meet papyrus with the game literally zooming in on him after he delivers a joke. it calls us to pay attention to this guy in a way that adds onto his mystery if im honest. and lastly the fakeman/rayman shipping. its one of the most iconic things sans is known for, him and his millions au selves. the day i see a legitimate fanchild of fakemay/rayman (and i mean it was made with love not a quick thought) is the day i will consider giving rayman that point. we dont PLAY about sanscest !!!!!

i took this way too fucking seriously :sob: my bad i jus had to defend sans PLS DONT BE OFFENDED

Bullfrog is the new Sans

[lovedtogekiss-art]

hey guys youre not gonna guess who had a fanroute dream today. i call it the nature's call route because its a fancy way of saying 'i need to take a shit' while also alluding to the content lmao. anyways heres the shit i wrote when i woke up

khione (she/her): a lightner like kris, and the one they manipulate. uses dialogue portraits similar to noelle's. overworld sprite is just a black blur with noelle's horns and vines dangling from inconvenient places. she speaks using outdated slang

noelle exists, probably. berdly also exists, probably.

route:

when you split off from susie and ralsei, you have the option to go down. there youll find khione sleeping in some boxes

"Khione is a Lightner, but you've never seen her before. You are filled with the power of mysterious plant girls."

on the very first enemy you encounter, you must tell her to use a spell titled 'The Call'. shell resist using it, at first begging you not to kill anyone, and then pleading with you not to because 'its a horrible way to die'. its clear that she knows that this spell exists and what it does.

"What…? You're joking, right?'

"N-no way!"

"Kris, that spell will kill them!"

"C-c'mon, Kris-Cross, you don't really want me to…?"

"I-I said no!"

"No!"

"Krissy-kid, come on, that's a horrible way to die!"

"No, I won't…!"

"I won't…! I..."

"...I..."

"…"

"...I'm sorry."

each enemy has a unique animation for when The Call is used, but the end result is always the same; vines grow and flowers bloom from every avaliable crack and crevice, consuming the enemy in plant life while they still breathe.

each fight won with this tactic rewards an item called the Screaming Flower that heals different amounts of HP depending on who consumes it. it heals susie the most, followed by kris. khione actually takes damage when consuming it.

it doesnt matter how many times you use The Call after this, as long as youve used it once

queen is just conspicuously absent this entire time. the 'get the banana' cutscene is skipped, but you still somehow end up encountering spamton. you need to spare him.

khione gets attached to spamton quickly, saying that he 'reminds her of someone'

im not sure how, but after the fight, you and khione end up in spamton's shop. the two quickly get along, and khione very clearly looks up to and respects the washed-up salesman

player gets the keygen and then somehow ends up in the basement with khione. you go down and save and begin the not-puzzle. the teacup ride is immobilized by vines and tilted slightly towards you, so you can just slide down them like a firemans pole. i do not remember how you get back up.

khione remarks curiously on the machine aa you get the empty disk, wondering if youre doing the right thing.

after returning to spams, you transfer him to the disk as usual. khione looks visibly distressed during the process. outside the shop, she once again asks if youre doing the right thing. tell her you are.

dream cuts to queen's mansion after that. the spamton neo battle begins as normal for the most part, except that ralsei and susie dont join in to help

you have to use The Call on sneo here. khione will really fight you here, outright begging for you not to kill him. shes stubborn to the point of having to press the button around twenty times for it to work.

sneos death is… unique. khiones dialogue box is up the entire time, and her talksprite is a gif of her crying. you can clearly hear sneo screaming as the plants completely consume him, forming a sort of viney cocoon. the spell, however, doesnt end there, eventually encasing khione as well. you gain a screamflower and a shadow crystal for your efforts, and after that, the route part is over.

post game:

going behind the library reveals an obstacle. interacting with it says "There is a body on the floor. She seems awfully familiar…", and then, "She doesn't seem to be awake."

if you ask the priest about khione, he says that she was a girl who went missing while gerson was still alive, and shows you an old photo of what she really looked like, a photo that i didnt get to see.

khione's father was an unsuccesful businessman who went bankrupt sometime in the mid-70s. he had a gambling addiction and thus was always in debt. he is implied to have killed himself after khione disappeared, sometime in the early 80s

after learning this, you can access a secret passage off the main graveyard where khione's father is buried. at this point, you can pick up the body behind the librarby and interact with the headstone to bury it.