#dean negative

[lillysilverus]

Does it still frustrate anyone else that Sam was villainized and ostracized for his mistakes but Dean was sympathized with and supported for his? I realize that Sam's were in the early days of the show when the story telling was still fresh and nuanced, but it's so blatant that they must have realized what they were doing when they had Sam and Castiel treating Dean like a victim rather than the perpetrator of his own bad choices.

[sml-str]

Got in a dumb tiktok argument with someone over Dean's treatment of Jack and whether it was comparable to John, aand... at some point, their argument was "He treated him the same as Sam and Cas; Dean is brutal in his relationship with others..." and really just made the "it's ok he was cruel bc he is also cruel to the rest of his family" argument. Then later, when I tried to be kind and give the out of "I do think this was bad writing though," they literally insisted it wasn't bad writing and their way of proving it wasn't bad writing was... by listing several other examples of Dean being abusive to other teens/young adults like pointing the gun at Kayla. Literally just gave free examples of Dean being abusive in order to argue it was good writing, while arguing Dean was nothing like John and wasn't abusive.

[peanutbutterandbananasandwichs]

Something about how Dean was WAY scarier when he was himself with the MoC (and frequently without it too) than when he was a literal demon (with the MoC) (who lets be honest was mostly just cringe). Idk. Telling.

[ambersock]

I never watched the last, like, five seasons of Supernatural because I was eventually filled with too much rage, but I missed Sam, so I started rewatching a few older season episodes. I was never that into Mystery Spot, but getting to watch Sam be smart and intense and peak Sam at the same time as getting to watch Dean die repeatedly because he sucks? Love it.

I hear you, anon!

I actually loved Dean initially, right up until he punched Sam in 2x03 which immediately downgraded him to 'barely tolerable for Sam's sake'. After s4 and s5, he earned a special place in my imaginary hell and Mystery Spot became my comfort episode. And just when I thought he couldn't possibly get any worse, along came s8-s10. By the opening scene of Goodbye Stranger with all the dead Deans lying on the floor, my reaction was nothing but a satisfied warm fuzzy glow instead of the intended horror.

I will say that s11 is definitely worth watching because we finally, finally get back to some real brother moments (particularly Red Meat), and Dean becomes almost likeable again. Sam's interactions with Lucifer are the high points of the season and make it worth putting up with the Dean/Amara cringefest.

[mpregspn]

Can I ask you about how you feel about dean? I’m a little confused if it’s more on the side of disliking him or just being critical of him. Im just genuinely curious because you ship Wincest and really like Sam, so I was wondering how your feelings on dean affect your like on Wincest.

sorry it took me so long; had to think this through but i still don't know how to answer that other than "it's complicated"

i think two things can be true at once

i'm not interested in dean. i hate his ass. i love it when he prays begging for sam's life. or when he orders angels around to fix sam

he's undeniably abusive

wincest still goes hard

at times because dean is abusive

[deanwastherealmonster]

So I started watching Supernatural when the pilot aired when I was fifteen, and watched it for 13 years before I realized how awful Dean was. It was a perfect storm. My precious cinnamon roll Jack was introduced, my son was born, and I discovered the beauty of Tumblr. I was horrified by Dean's treatment of Jack, towards whom I felt immense maternal love from the second he said "I like nougat!" In my exploration of Tumblr, I looked for people who were also upset by Dean's abuse, and was beset by meta talking not only about that, but about how Dean was abusive in general, and it very much felt like the wool had been yanked from over my eyes. I used to adore the relationship between Sam and Dean. Largely, I think, because I was a lonely only child being abused and loved the idea of a protective big brother. However, as an adult and parent, my view is entirely different. It really makes me wonder how I felt about Dean before this. And the truth is that I don't think I gave him much thought outside of his relationship with Sam, because I've always hands down been a Sam girl. I think I thought Dean was charming and funny(which is true; Jensen is excellent at comedy), and I loved the moments when he was soft with Sam. I managed to overlook when Dean was abusive mainly, I believe, because my society minimizes abuse between men. So the yelling and hitting just went over my head as annoying conflict. Now I see it for what it is.

It truly is strange. I'm trying hard to think about how I saw him. Like, I entirely remember how I saw his relationship with Sam, but I barely remember having any specific thoughts about him at all.

What about the rest of y'all? Tell me about your journey to realizing that Dean is not a good person.

[nyaningthroughlife]

Fucking hate Season 8 rn, like, why is Sam the villain here??? Goddamn, the writers making me a Bitter Sam Girl.

Now, I'm confused about my feelings about Dean. On one hand, he pisses me off, on the other... no wait, he still pisses me off. I don't know what to say about him anymore. The things he says just make me so frustrated.

[soultheories]

jack: would you still love me if i was a bug?

sam: of course, jack. no matter what, we're family

castiel: why would you be a bug?

dean: i don't even like you now

[redtyrannoranger]

Torn between really wanting to rewatch SPN because I love Sam Winchester and not wanting to watch SPN ever again because I hate Dean Winchester

[lillysilverus]

Can we all just agree that Dean is really bad at giving Sam motivational speeches?

Season 5 "Sam Interrupted"

Sam- "I'm really angry all the time."

Dean - "Suck it up and bury it. We don't have time for your issues."

Season 7 "Hello Cruel World"

Sam - " I don't know what's real! I'm having a breakdown!"

Dean - "Okay, I'm your real brother because I will kick your ass when I need to. Here's what you're going to do. Every time you see Lucifer, you're going to hurt yourself."

Season 8 "Sacrifice"

Sam - "You think I'm useless and can't do anything. I'm a terrible brother."

Dean - "Aw come on. Just because I said that a few times doesn't mean I actually wanted you to believe it."

There could be more but those are the ones I can remember.

[sml-str]

[sounknownvoid]

All that and then dean always runs away - which ironically is what sams always accused of doing...whenever sam's in actual bad shape and desperately needs dean - hes actually never there - for all his b.s and posturing about willing to do anything for his brother..examples: s4 - sam detox 1st time: hes locked up alone and crying n sufferring calling for dean,

s6- when sam gets soul back, against consent, sam wakes up in panic room alone and goes upstairs scared as to what he'd find coz he remembers only that he beat dean to a pulp and bobby/cas are dead - how long after he woke up with soul did he just lie there and grieve before he found the strength n courage to climb up those stairs - & who was there with him to explain/comfort ?.... not dean/no one,

s7-when sam puts all his soul-pieces together n wakes up whos there for him ? - no one -> he wakes up from having hell-memories restored alone to a frkn note telling him to get someplace - & he frkn does get there n tries to save em still

....n then sam is beset by hallucifer - how much of that is caused by lack of proper care or any care at all received after such a traumatic event(experiencing 180 years worth of lives,memories,feelings from hell in 1xshot)?, while he struggles to cope he gets mocked,teased and generally ignored - no thought to lets see if we can get sammy some help...no, lets tell him to hurt himself as a way of identifying whats real

at end of s7: when sam has now got compunded trauma and has lost bobby and everything else and then sees his best friend and his brother just vanish in black goo while still dealing with mental health issues of prev years hes left completely alone, you dont think the guy just broke? - & there was no one there to pick up the pieces, start of s8- straight after deans return its straight into "lets blame sam" rather than trying to figure out for real what sam might have gone through in that year....n then s9: lets violate sam (again) for "his own good" but not an ounce of support or understanding n then when hes screaming in agony coz of having needles poked into his very brain,

Is dean there to comfort n take care? - no, he cant even stand to stay n watch what hes wrought and so he walks off n makes it about himself n just stands there palling around with cas-boy as a "distraction" n then,

once sam is "rescued"(in deans mind), remove himself saying 'im poison" - fkn convenient isnt it that s9 dean doesnt actually have to face the consequences - dean is simply not there to help sam through his recovery from gadreels violations because he cant face upto what he's done n then he just turns that around on sam too...n gers himself manipukated by crowley into moc - & later, misunderstands what sam said when he said sam wouldnt do the same to him...so that, again, he can just avoid having to talk about what it was like for sam when he was possessed by gadreel - if he spent less than 5xseconds looking at that statement - if he knew his brother at all or genuinely did give a sht about him - he would have instantly known that sam meant that sam wouldnt violate and disrespect dean in that way.... and so it means sam is left to recover from gadreel also on his own with no support from dean....

and on, and on,and on....

yes, this turned into a very much anti-dean in the later seasons thing - not a fan of his hypocrisy and his abusive-ness towards someone he loudly and frequently proclaims and declares from rooftops to anyone who'll listen how much he "loves" - his brother!...gah!...

i'm watching spn with my mom (i'm caught up, she's seen seasons 11, 12, and 8) and we just started season 9 and she totally sympathized with dean tricking sam into being possessed and i'm honestly horrified???? like beyond shocked, beyond upset

OH MY GOSH YES. I’m sorry you had to hear that! I was talking about it with my older brother, and he said exactly the same thing! He is generally a Sam fan because he admires Sam’s intelligence and cunning, but he believed that, because Dean had “done it because he loved Sam,” it was okay and excusable.

And like… no? I mean, of course Dean was afraid. Of course he loves Sam and can hardly even entertain the thought of losing him, but those feelings don’t justify the kind of violation he forced on Sam without Sam’s knowledge or consent.

The thing is, I think a lot of people feel the way your mom and my brother do. It’s 100% about these emotional appeals. And I really do understand it. We’re wired to respond to these emotions. It’s why the asshole-with-a-tragic-past trope goes over so well and gets so much love. People just say, “Well, he was horrifically abused/locked in a basement/raised by bandits/made into a child soldier/witness to the murder of his entire clan/etc., so it’s entirely okay that he’d do these things.”

But it’s not okay. Really, what they should say is that it’s understandable. It’s completely understandable, but it’s also completely inexcusable.

I don’t blame people for thinking the way my brother and your mom think, but they are both unequivocally wrong. I understand how Dean’s emotional state contributed to his choice, but that doesn’t mean i excuse it. 

It wouldn’t sting as much, if at all, if Dean had actually acknowledged it like he did in the earlier seasons. Back then, when Sam confronted Dean about his choice to make a dangerous decision that affected Sam (and Dean), he acknowledged that it was a selfish choice he made because he didn’t want to be without Sam. But in s9, he turns all the blame on Sam.

Characters who make mistakes are complex, relatable characters, but it’s harder for me to like characters who make mistakes and then defend those mistakes and shift the blame. I’ve always wanted the show to return to the way it was in the earlier seasons, where it acknowledged how twisted up and flawed the characters were but still made watching their stories enjoyable. The narrative bias is especially apparent in the later seasons, and it’s so tiring.

alkjkljfdgjksjfkahkl anyway, I am so sorry for rambling, but yes. Stuff like that really is upsetting, but it really opened my eyes to the power of storytelling (for good and for ill). Like, what ideas did some viewers carry away from s9, I wonder? It’s amazing to watch all sorts of television that portrays all sorts of events, but I think it’s important to be a thoughtful consumer of this stuff.

[mpregspn]

kat you tagging that dean gender post as dean crit is so fucking funny to me rn like yes call him out for bad vibes

he had plenty of time to sort them out 🙄

[wigglebox]

Suptober - Day 31 | Halloween / Costumes [x]

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Thank you all so much for the support during this years suptober! Things were a little different this year but I was still so happy to see so many posts and creative folk in the tag this year! I love this event so much and it was heartening to see many others love it as well.

See y’all next October and Happy Halloween! 🎃

[lillysilverus]

"Last Call" is on TNT. So cringe. As much as I love Sam whump, the scenes of "Dean" singing and talking about old times with a heretofore unknown person is just..... It was really sad that they lost the ability to write Dean and not a caricature of his persona.

[idkwhattocallmyselfs-stuff]

Thank you for everything you just said. You put it so well and expressed every emotion I feel when I watch that episode. I’m going to go throw up in a trash can now :)👍

 sometimes i decide that i don’t like myself. sometimes that makes me want to watch a sad sam episode. sometimes the episode is ‘when the levee breaks.’

sometimes i yell.

warning: under the cut are my reactions to the aforementioned episode, and most if not all of them are what you might call “the opposite of dean (and, to a lesser extent, bobby and cas) positive.” so there’s that. it’s also just me feeling, really fucking sorry for sam though, so if that’s your jam then. continue on i guess kajlghsjhgsh. anyways here are some actual trigger warnings: mentions of suicidal ideation, mistreatment of a person struggling with addiction, abuse/torture mentions. please tread carefully. if this isnt something you can read, i completely understand.

for the record, i will say: this is not meta. when i write meta, i try to be fair and see things from perspectives of characters besides sams, even if theyre not perspectives that i like engaging with. when i write meta, i try to talk about whats happening in a nuanced way. this is not meta. this is me reacting, based purely on emotion. quite frankly, im not sure im capable of talking about ‘when the levee breaks’ in an unbiased, objective way, because it simultaneously breaks my heart and makes me see red. (i’m going to try in a meta i’m working on though so maybe this will help me get my anger out before that ashglhsgjks.) basically, what im saying is, this is not objective analysis where i’m trying to understand characters’ motivations. this is just me being super bitter and sad on sam’s behalf. also, this got really long. it took me about four times the amount of time it should have to watch the ep.

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