#ctommy analysis

[casawio]

c!crimeboys (forever, in every life) night in the woods / everything everywhere all at once / junepours / lang leav / nikita gill / unknown / wilbur's stream, 11/4/22 (clip) (clip)

[winniethepoohbear04]

Ya know I’m thinking back on the finale streams and I think there was an interesting way they could’ve taken it and one I thought they would take while watching for foreshadowing. The End. CDream mentioned it. He obviously has knowledge about it, and I seriously thought that was going to come into play. It was such a reveal especially since it’s been a rule in the server for soo long, and obviously the characters have no clue about it. I specifically took note of when cdream was talking about it because I had the split thought in my mind that ctubbo and ctommy would take advantage of this new knowledge to defeat Dream and Punz. Once the stream was over I was thinking about how cclingyduo could definitely form a plan to find out more about the end, how to activate the portal, and instead of the traveling too it, they would figure out how to get CDream and cpunz to get into the portal, and then trap them there. Sure they could definitely get out, but the characters don’t know that, cdrunz could have enough knowledge to kill the dragon, but we don’t know for sure if they would. Also with this kind of ending it brings around the conclusion with the end, while also having no self-sacrificing message and no one dying in the end. It would’ve been satisfactory in the details/convos, would include all the action, and make a pretty engaging battle. No characters would be killed, there’s enough of a loose ending to continue fan headcanons and stories, but also ensures our beloved characters are safe and happy if fans wanted to stop there. Final pro is that there would be some sick ass fanart of it too.The only thing that would’ve stopped the cc from doing it is that it doesn’t add to volume 2, there would be no part of the finale that leads viewers to watching volume 2. But yea that’s what I think could’ve been if we wanted to ignore the entire ‘kill everyone and have amnesia’ ending.

[saltwatersweets]

cant fully explain it but the fact that c!quackity seemingly wore white to every prison visit is so fascinating to me. walking around afterwards with his shirt covered in blood, white the hardest colour to get stains out of. torturing someone every day with an axe and a sword and shears, very bloody weapons, and not only ruining his clothes but it being impossible for anyone who sees him to not instantly recognize blood on his person. the implied confidence that no one would give a shit about what he’s doing is so compelling somehow.

[ffaeb]

/DSMP /RP

EVERYOJE SHUT UP SHUT UP, FUN THOUGHTS TIME. When c!Schlatt died of a drunken heart attack, he was, of course, drunk. when c!Quackity went to talk with his ghost, said ghost was also drunk. Glatt's memories of being alive seemed a bit blurry. As if he was hungover. c!Wilbur was happy when he died (smiling atleast), a result of having gone insane. ghostbur had only happy memories, and was almost always happy.

c!Tommy was scared when he died. He was trapped with his tormentor for weeks, and thought nobody cared. He never had a ghost. And he came back a shell of himself. Empty.

So theory, the ghosts are mirrors of what people felt when they died and Tommy being a "shell of himself" is a reflection of him never having a ghost while dead. I'm

[sethdomain]

never give c!drm emphatizer ability to analyze c!tommy cause i just saw the worse cluster b and c!tommy analysis ever it makes me want to die.

[bleue-flora]

Okay I know I said I wasn’t going to talk about discduo anymore, and I meant it. I did. But then I saw the clip of cc!Tommy [post] talking about them and a few people saying how clingy duo didn’t know that they hurt c!Dream, and how c!Dream was just this unreasonable psychopath who drove c!Tommy to want to kill himself… and well I just feel like I can’t stand by while Dream gets slandered after I was being nice to c!Tommy.

So... that brings us here, where to the best of my memory and ability, I’d like to look at c!Tommy as being part of the Antisocial Personality Disorder spectrum. Because here’s the thing, I’ve seen people refer to him as some golden boy, who’s caring and has a good heart, but I’m gonna just be honest, I just don’t see it. From what I can tell, we accuse c!Dream of having no empathy, but I don’t think I’ve really seen c!Tommy show any.

Now granted, I’m definitely no psychologist or whatever, and in the real world diagnosing these disorders is a very intense and extensive process. Especially because there is no true way to know whether an individual has empathy or not since we can’t exactly read their minds or feelings. So we really only have their behavior to study. Having said all that though, here’s why I actually think c!Tommy is perhaps the “psychopath” or since that term is no longer medically used, has Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD) in which psychopathy is sometimes considered a subtype of.

And yes, while I am more than aware that I clearly have dsmp favorites and therefore am biased, I have to say when I was rewatching lore I didn’t expect to come to this conclusion, but something about this scene specifically in the finale bothered me.

[clip] Dream: “Why are you–why are you trying to—ruin everything all the time?” Tommy: “Cuz that was just me having fun with my friends, Dream, but I didn’t–I didn’t…” Dream: “Ah-you just stealing my shit and a—griefing my friends’ houses and breaking shit?” Tommy: “I just didn’t realize how much that hurt you.”

Because c!Tommy essentially just straight up admits to enjoying harming others. In fact, is so clueless he doesn’t grasp that killing and breaking and stealing and griefing hurts people. And like how can you possibly tell me that someone at the age of 18 years old can be so oblivious to other people’s suffering. Because he sure didn’t like it when people griefed or trapped his house, stole from him, and killed him, but somehow didn’t know that other people also didn’t like that. I mean, there’s just no way someone can be that clueless, I don’t care how old they are, even children know better than to just push their friend down the stairs because it’s funny. 

Like I don't think this is just the behavior of some flawed teenager, but of someone with a lack of empathy or ASPD, which the National Library of Medicine says this about, “Antisocial personality disorder is characterized by a pervasive and enduring pattern of disregarding and violating the rights of others, typically emerging in childhood or early adolescence and persisting throughout an individual's life. This disorder significantly impacts interpersonal and occupational functioning, often leading to profound impairments in overall quality of life. Individuals with antisocial personality disorder frequently engage in criminal behavior and struggle to learn from the negative consequences of their actions” [source], And I don’t know about you, but doesn’t that sound like c!Tommy? Even further the Millon Theory has this to say about Antisocial (ADAntis) individuals, “Prone to lessened emotional resonance and a marked lack of empathy, those individuals evidencing ADAntis patterns actively seek out what they feel is their entitlement. ADAntis individuals often feel slighted by their circumstances and believe they must take in order to receive. They are impulsive by nature and uncaring about any damage they may inflict on others or themselves” [source].

In other words, someone who does and takes without thinking of others as if they are entitled to it. A great example of this is c!Tommy just up and killing c!Purpled for no reason and stealing c!Tubbo’s resources before they battle c!Dream again for the discs, where c!Tubbo notes that c!Tommy has a ‘shit moral compass’ [clip]. There is also the stream I love to bring up of c!Tommy stealing from c!Tubbo, killing his bee and then burning his house, and not giving anything but a half assed apology of 'I didn’t mean to burn your house down that much’ and ‘I didn’t mean to kill your bee I was just giving him a high five’ [post] and that’s how he treats his best friend, one he drags into war after war. c!Tommy more than once highlights how pain is real in the dsmp whether a non-canonical death or a punch and yet shows no regard for holding back hurting others, whether that's burning c!Techno [clip] or throwing a harming potion at him when he’s found in the basement [clip], lighting c!Dream on fire with a bucket of lava on the first day of Exile [clip & clip], killing c!Alyssa just cuz she’s there and a woman [clip], stabbing c!Dream as he fills in a creeper hole in c!Tommy's yard no less [clip], how bout just dragging c!Tubbo into wars to risk his life and experience pain over some replaceable discs… etc just as some examples off the top of my head or have seen recently. 

I mean he doesn’t seem to care about others. When c!Tubbo needs help, where’s c!Tommy, like when he goes after c!Sam after he killed his husband and kidnapped his son he teams up with all the people who have killed him. Where the freak is c!Tommy - the one he fought so many wars with. Heck in the finale, c!Tubbo charges into what might be certain death, even after disagreeing with c!Tommy and reasoning that maybe they shouldn’t kill c!Dream [clip]. Oh and then of course, I've talked about his behavior towards c!Punz in the beginning too, of him helping clingy duo and then c!Tommy plotting to stab him the next minute [post]. 

And he struggles so hard to separate the value of items over the living [clip], seen no clearer than his struggle multiple times with putting the discs over c!Tubbo. And as I talked about when looking at c!Quackity at some point, people without empathy can love but it’s more like loving chocolate where they can enjoy it but there is no consideration for a candy bar’s well-being or feelings - people are more so just there to be used than cared about, and isn’t that what he does with c!Tubbo? With c!Techno? With c!Dream? Using them as a weapon and for their resources and then tossing them aside. Certainly not having their back when they need it, something c!Techno highlights pretty well in his speech about being a person [clip].

Perhaps are biggest clue should be how revolved his character arc is about understanding the value of items and how people are more important, as he finally in the finale gives up his discs for Tubbo’s life…

I don’t know maybe I’m wrong, but all I’m saying is I have yet to see a scene that really shows c!Tommy as caring or empathic, instead I see more so the telltale signs and behavior of someone with Antisocial Personality Disorder… who’s the psychopath now? *mic drop*

[mioakem]

ctommy…with skirt over jeans…junofication of ctommy…

[audodd2]

FUCK. Remember when Tommy was hiding with Techno right after exile and Techno had him drink invis to hide from Dream. He is returning to that, back to the security of hiding in plain sight because he's endlessly curious and absolutely terrified of the world around him. He avoided Wilbur/didn't see him for a while and the second he did mans ups and leaves. He's terrified it's going to happen again so he's been watching the people he cares about and the people he hates just so he knows they're still there. Just so he can have some semblance of control. Tommy's limbo was darkness, complete isolation. Does this play into claustrophobia? Absolutely. But it more so plays into the fear of the unknown, of being completely ignorant of your surroundings and defenseless against them. Tommy doesn't wear armor (he hasn't since exile but that's a whole other rant). He's used to being defenseless physically, but if he doesn't know his surroundings he can't react to them, can't mold to them how he needs to in order to survive. He's fine without armor, but without information he is weak, he is nothing. Invisibility makes so much sense. And it makes the fact that his character needs to be seen, needs to be valued, needs to be needed so much more painful. Also, I count this as bedrock bros crumbs and you cannot stop me.

[clingyduoapologist]

There is something so intrinsically human about c!Tommy, he’s a shifting kaleidoscope of anger rage and love. He’s one of the few people on the server who allows himself to feel and to feel deeply. When he loves something he loves it openly and proudly. When he’s angry, no matter how large or small the target of his anger is, he makes it everyone’s problem. He’s so alive!!! He loves and hates and cries and he just fucking lives!! He lives!!!

[pseudosaprophyte]

i think i’ve realized a niche archetype i really enjoy is character with religious trauma from a made-up religion. i think a character being like “i was raised christian and it fucked me up” is way less interesting to me because i’ve seen that a thousand times and i have my own preconceived biases and opinions about it, but a character being like “i was raised in this institutional and powerful religion where we worship blogar the blowjob god and it fucked me up” is SO INTERESTING! like, who are the people in charge of blogarism? what are they trying to accomplish by using this religion to their advantage? what are their rules and codes of conduct and what are they based in? why blowjobs?

[anxiouslyextroverted]

So a few of my irls were talking about how c!dream never targetted c!tommy and or had a dependency issue and I just wanna correct that.

c!Dream at the start of the series (since now the start is considered canon) constantly went after the discs even when c!Tommy told him he wanted to have a truce and that they were allies even wanting to play them together with c!Dream. c!Dream agreed to those terms but then attacked him 5 minutes later anyway.

Not forgetting the first disc fight where c!Dream targetted c!Tommy the whole time and only gave c!Sapnap and c!Ponk and c!Alyssa a slap on the wrist.

c!Dream spent a good portion of a Tommy stream donating him msgs to play the discs.

A couple of early streams of c!Dream trying to get c!Tubbo o someone else against c!Tommy.

Not really targetting but he said "Tommy is under my protection" which is that dependency thing idk it counts.

c!Dream built a tunnel to c!Tommys base.

c!Dream during L'manberg arc seemed more against c!Tommy than c!Wilbur and the others more often than not.

c!Dream focused on getting c!Tommys friends against him, such as most notably c!Tubbo and c!Wilbur in pogtopia arc.

c!Dream betrays c!Tommy in pogtopia arc after initially helping c!Tommy out. He tells c!Tommy this is due to 'business' he also tells him, 'that he put something better over friendship' (aka the revival book he got from c!Schlatt) (either way, he still betrayed him.)

He tells c!Tommy at the end of l'manberg blowing up that 'everythings just getting started', and makes it out as if c!Tommy was in the wong.

A few weeks before exile. c!Dream and c!Puffy went around destroying everything including c!Skeppys home and then framing it on c!Tommy with signs. c!Dream in particular is excited for people to log on and for them to get mad at c!Tommy.

The above was confirmed canon when during Exile trial, c!Dream says that c!Tommy had blown up c!Skeppys house (or he infers it), showing the damage that he himself did.

In Exile trial, I'm not gonna lie c!Tommy totallyyy fucked up here by burning a little TINY tiny small tiny bit of c!Georges home and then trying to fix it. And then he lied about it. (/sarc) But, c!Dream was provoking him in the whisper chat with ":)" and "have fun on probation :)"

During exile, he focuses on putting all blame for his problems on c!Tommy. Not just saying that to c!Tommys face but on other people's streams, he was there talking about how much of a nuisance c!Tommy is and what not.

In exile, he proceeds to get c!Tommy dependent on him so c!Tommy will help with his goals later on. But the way he goes about this is to a severe extreme like how he snaps at him and hits him with an axe or arrow, he takes great enjoyment in bullying c!Tommy and getting others like c!Lazarbeam to bully him too, he makes sure c!Tommy is completely lonely even sending c!Ghostbur away who was memory loss so how could he break c!Dreams plans exactly?, he gasights c!Tommy into thinking that c!Dream didn't kill Mexican Dream, he blows up c!Tommys base despite never telling c!Tommy the rule about how he can't have chests underground.

He goes onto track c!Tommy down. And again, its more the way he goes about it.

Once c!Tommy is back in L'manberg, c!Dream blows up the community house and frames it on c!Tommy. Getting everyone against him and he tells c!Tubbo that he is affiliated to c!Tommy based on the disc that he says is 'Tommys most prized possession' which is him getting c!Tubbo to go against c!Tommy once more.

After Lmanberg gets blown up again. c!Dream tells c!Tommy "I'm not done with you. Our stories not over... Our stories not over" c!Tommy says "Our stories not over but it will be... It will be soon" and c!Dream replies "I don't think our story will ever be over, Tommy. I think that you're just too fun. I don't think It'll be over."

In disc finale, he proceeds to act like that c!Tommy is his main target, calling him the key to the server and going after him more than c!Tubbo. And puts the idea in c!Clingyduos heads that he needs all the possesions to control the server. (now even though c!Dream staged this whole thing and wasn't actually saying his motivations, c!Tommy never knows that he lied about that not at this point at least. It further riles c!Tommy up and has him believing that c!Dream really is obsessed with hurting him and since c!Dream never explains why properly, it comes off to c!Tommy that he is obsessed for no reason.) (Also possible for it to be half staged making the motivations semi-true)

Then, c!Dream causes c!Tommy to get stuck in the cell with him by controlling c!Ranboo to do that (which this is confirmed that he really did do this, confirmed in the final lore stream and in dream xds video)

The point of c!Dream allegedly lying to make c!Tommy think c!Dream was after him all the time is further solidified when in the prison arc. c!Dream refers to c!Tommy as a light, and key and keeps going on about studying death with him. I know a lot of this may very well be real and a result from him being mentally ill from isolation, but theres so many lies sprinkled in here like telling c!Tommy that he never tested out the revival book before when he had (btw correct me if Im wrong here, I could of got the dates mixed up)

c!Sam also claims that c!Dream kept going on about c!Tommy in the prison, c!Sam also says that c!Dream was practically manically laughing after he killed c!Tommy. (Obsession, putting on an act of obsession, mentally ill from the prison sure maybe all 3)

After c!Dream escapes prison, he immediately goes after c!Tommy. (Which sure is to scare c!Tommy into no longer going after him or whatever it could be an act) But he's still putting the idea in c!Tommys head that he's obsessed with hurting him, and don't say that he did this unintentionally because we already have the 'you're too fun line' and several other moments to prove otherwise. He also then puts signs around c!Tommys home saying 'watch your back' and ":) I'm watching" and he makes a trap for c!Tommy to fall into playing back a messed up disc. Don't say that this was apart of c!Tommys delusion because c!Eryn saw it too and a few others did from what I remember-unless thats retconned idunno.

In c!Wilburs finale, c!Dream can't stand the idea of the discs being burned. (The discs are affiliated with c!Tommy as c!Dream has said before, and has said that the discs are c!Tommys most prized possesion) He still cares about them even now. He also watches c!Tommy for majority of the time.

In Dreams space, he claims that his character was not solely torturing c!Tommy for the sake of it, but that he still really enjoyed hurting c!Tommy. Its to vague to tell if Dream is denouncing the 'c!Dream is obsessed with c!Tommy' theory or not. I believe he is saying that it is half true- as in that his character is, but that he has reasons to do so, and or that this wasn't his only plan.

During the final lore finale, c!Dream claims that he wasn't targeting c!Tommy and that he had left him alone however that contradicts with everything I wrote above, so 1. He thinks he left c!Tommy alone, 2. He was referring to the present where he did leave him alone and purposely/or accidentally ignoring the past, or 3. he knows he didn't and is just trying to rile c!Tommy up. Either way he goes onto admit that he did cause c!Ranboo to get c!Tommy stuck in the prison. He also confirms later on that he genuinely believes c!Tommy is the cause of the ruining of his server. "Why are you ruining everything all the time" "You deserved it (torture)" "I am (a villain), I tortured you."

And not to mention. Out of everyone on the server that gets c!Dream to give up and somewhat open up, its c!Tommy... because ofc it is. No ones surprised.

I think that's everything. as always I'm happy to debate with people and stuff preferably in dms but idm. If anything is wrong, correct it. If anything is missed, let me know. ty

[swordfright]

cyclical violence & the dsmp finale

I’m seeing a lot of folks on Twitter interpret the DSMP series 1 finale as “can you believe they forced an abuse victim to befriend his abuser in the end, that’s so sick and tasteless!!” and after a bit of pondering (i.e. absolutely rabid conversations with @ringenthusiast) I think I’ve realized why that interpretation bothers me. Personally I find it extremely reductive to read DSMP as being solely about abuse rather than as a story in which abuse happens and is explored, but even if you’re only prepared to consume it solely as an abuse narrative, you absolutely must acknowledge that the story is about both interpersonal and systemic abuses, and moreover that it’s about how interpersonal and systemic abuse enable each other.

c!Tommy is a victim of horrific interpersonal abuse. c!Dream is a victim of horrific systemic abuse. c!Dream is the perpetrator of the interpersonal abuse c!Tommy suffers, and his abuse of c!Tommy is later continually used as a justification (both in canon and in fandom) for why c!Dream deserves to suffer systemic abuse. This isn’t a coincidence, it’s clearly a very well-planted and thoroughly developed overarching theme: abuse is cyclical. Abuse perpetuates itself. One type of abuse perpetuates and enables other forms of abuse. That’s the point.

There are plenty of examples of this theme being explored outside of the “Dream vs. Tommy” conflict -- the instance that immediately comes to mind is c!Quackity being treated terribly by c!Schlatt, only to turn around and torture an incarcerated person, ostensibly for profit but also presumably for personal enjoyment. Again, abuse is cyclical. This is actually why I think it’s really important that c!Tommy and c!Quackity are, in a sense, set up as foils for each other. c!Quackity makes the decision to become as bad as (if not worse) than his abuser, and that decision is a source of strength and agency for him even though the audience is expected to understand it as a downward spiral. c!Tommy’s approach is different, after he sees c!Dream’s perspective from limbo. It has to be different because c!Tommy is different.

It’s kinda wild to me that anyone could watch the DSMP finale (not to mention the past two years of the show) and not see the final interaction between c!Tommy and c!Dream as a representation of restorative justice. You are not obligated to fix, forgive, or offer redemption to someone who hurt you... but you are obligated to at least try to see them as a person, because the alternative can and will enable atrocities.

This is both a positive ending for c!Tommy and a very uplifting message to end series 1 on. Remember what I said earlier about c!Quackity and c!Tommy being narrative foils? Well, they certainly are, at least insofar as the theme of cyclical abuse is concerned. c!Quackity is an abuse victim who becomes an abuser. That’s an arc that makes sense for his character and personally, as a longtime c!Quackity stan I’m happy with it... but it would be super depressing if that was how every abuse plotline in the series turned out. The final interaction between c!Tommy and c!Dream offers an alternative outcome: that abuse victims are not obligated to forgive or attempt to understand their abusers, but in some cases it’s worth it to try. The abuse c!Tommy suffered makes him neurotic and angry and depressed and fearful and paranoid, but he never lets it make him unkind. He never becomes an abuser himself. The message is clear: abuse can be cyclical, but it doesn’t always have to be. You can break the cycle. The snake doesn’t always have to swallow its own tail.

That, to me, is an incredibly meaningful ending.

[winniethepoohbear04]

Mmmm tempted to write another analysis about why ctommy is not a villian and never will be because of course people are again trying to make it to happen.

[copepods]

cphil is a really fun character to me because in my mind hes just kind of a dick. and part of it is the thousands of years of existence warping his perception of time and giving him a false sense of superiority but also hes just a prick sometimes i think

[ffaeb]

/dsmp /rp (tw?// mentions of ex1le, abvs3, c!dream crit and very bad analysis. I don't do this much or at all)

Something I think I'd like to speak on is the reoccurring argument I see with cdream apologists/defenders of "ok, but ctommy deserved some sort of punishment." Please tell me, where was that same consequence when cdream blew up the community house and the entirety of L’manburg? When HE had done wrong and horrible things?

I've seen people say the prison in response. But he was sent to jail *only* because the entire rest of the server ganged up on him and forced him there, when a literal child was taken away from everything he loved for basically nothing. I forgot if the prison was intentional as well, or if he knew it was going to happen, in which case it doesn't even apply here.

cdream was treated pretty well for most of his beginning time at prison. Even blatantly attempting to drive Sam insane. and anyone could have visited him until he fucked that up too by beating tommy to death. I'd never even attempt to justify torture, although it could've been avoided if he hadn't committed murder.

While ctommy was locked away from everything and forced to survive alone with his progress being wiped every day and then pushed to suicidal ideation. It was way more than a punishment.

eeuu g fhfhfc

[bleue-flora]

at least cpunz has cdream to comfort him if they feel bad about the ctommy and ctubbo stuff /j

[context] & [other context]

You joke but like…

Literally.

When clingy duo hurts them, they got eachothers’ backs. When clingy duo fails to see how cpunz could even be hurt, cdream is there with sandwiches to confront him…

‘I just don’t want to ever be excluded.'

(Side note, anyone ever notice how cdream says they are going to go listen to some music in that clip?… now that’s wholesome. What song do you think they go listen to? Cat? Mellohi? Pigstep? Maybe one of the discs he got from cTommy?………. ya know it’s crazy that the villain also just likes to vibe with his best friend and listen to some discs… almost like he’s just some guy or something…)