#clone chip removal

[ionfusionpunk]

hello, what’s this about awake craniotomies and clone chip removal? (I don’t follow you, I just saw your note in the reblogs and went “oooo this seems interesting!”)

Heyo! Of all the things I've commented on a post, I think this is exactly the one I expected to hear about the least lolol. I'm warning you, this is... a long post. It got away from me, I'm so sorry T-T (It's heckin long. I'm really sorry. I'll summarize at the top and you can read more beneath the break if you want.)

Long story short, I hyper fixated on this tiny little detail that really doesn't actually affect anything within the SW universe lmao.

TL;DR: The clones should be awake for their chip removal procedures with the exception of extenuating circumstances. Also, disclaimer, I'm not in the medical field, I just love research. If I get anything wrong, anyone is free to correct me :)

If you have any questions, please ask, I'm not very good at explaining things in way others understand at first. So it all makes sense to me, but you might not follow my leaps in logic 😅

Longer story: I was reading a fic this morning, and the clones involved got their chip removed. The text said something about 'waiting for them to wake up from the surgery', and it just kinda... idk, hit me that I have never ever read any fic where the clone doesn't have to wake up from being completely sedated for brain surgery.

Now, look. Write what you wanna write, like I said, it's not a big thing. But one of my neurodivergent quirks is that inaccuracy/misinformation/ignorance (willful or innocent) kinda bugs me? I like knowing that other people know things - know correct things. It brings me satisfaction and helps me sleep at night. So I kinda notice trends in what people seem to not/know.

My first thought when I realized the trend of complete sedation for brain surgery/chip removal led to me to draw two conclusions: a) As happens in fandom, most everyone just writes clones completely sedated for this procedure bc everyone else does. No biggie. It's easier, and again, doesn't really matter. b) Most everyone is working off misinformation pulled from inaccurate medical dramas and the assumptions made by the average fic writer. Again, not an issue. It's fiction. I just like... accuracy. So my brain took this and went ham.

Kay. So, there's this really cool thing about the brain that I'm starting to think isn't common knowledge? I'm kinda a nerd for weird medical things, and it's been a long time since my high school biology class where I first learned about this, so maybe it's just me. The brain doesn't have any pain receptors. None. Like, if you had just a living brain in the palm of your hand and you stabbed it or punched it or whatever, it wouldn't feel pain. Pressure maybe, since it still has touch receptors, but no pain whatsoever. The only pain receptors present around the vicinity of the brain are the ones around the brain.

This little fact led to a really cool and helpful medical advancement several years ago: this thing called awake craniotomies, or brain surgery where the patient is still conscious. The benefit is that it allows the surgical team to engage the patient and actively monitor cognitive function; this is a far step from waiting for the patient to wake up in order to determine if the surgeon done effed up and turned the patient into a vegetable - if they woke up at all, that is.

Originally this was practiced on epileptic patients bc, yanno, epilepsy. It's a really finicky condition, after all. Since then however we've managed to find other treatment options for epilepsy and other related conditions, so awake craniotomies (or conscious craniotomies as I call them, since it alliterates lol), so we've moved away from brain surgery there. Instead, awake craniotomies are now most often performed when removing or recessing a brain tumor. Again, it's a really finicky process, and the surgeon and their team really like being able to check on the patient during the whole process.

Before anyone freaks out about the pain receptors around the brain, there's an answer for that, too. A local anesthetic is used to completely numb the skull and scalp. Think of an epidural; it's the same idea.

Now, you may ask, how this all relates back to SW? Well, that's a great question lmaoooo. Now, in all of canon SW, there are only... seven (maybe eight) instances of a clone getting their chip removed. Tup, Fives, Rex, Hunter, Wrecker, Tech, and Omega (and Crosshair if his chip actually was removed like he said, I haven't watched TBBS2 yet). Actually, did Kix? I don't remember. Anyway.

I'm operating off the assumption that SW medical knowledge/tech is about equal to our own - i.e. that they still use many of the same procedures/practices/techniques for most things bar canonical exceptions. My friend in the server however pointed out that they weren't sure any clone medic could perform a complex brain surgery. Now, that's a fair point. The Kaminoans wouldn't care to teach the medics how to perform those surgeries on each other; they're products, they can be replaced, so what's the point?

But. Here are my counterpoints to that.

First. In the event of an emergency, it would only make sense that a clone medic be prepared to perform any sort of necessary procedure on a natborn officer or even their Jedi general/commander in the event they could not make it to a medical station or a proper surgeon in time. If there were natborn medics trained in complicated procedures and stationed on the ships, then there's always the chance there would be far more clone medics than them, and thus if they die, the clone medics would need to be able to step up in their place. So. Clone medics can probably perform brain surgery.

Second. With Fives, Rex, and CF99 (minus Crosshair), they remove their chips via surgical droid/machine. In fact, both Rex and CF99 do so on a GAR class ship. This shows that not only did the clones have access to the necessary technology, but it could also be easily operated. And not only that, but the only thing they needed was a program to locate and remove the chip. I think the importance of the program is that the machine itself can't perform a Level 5 Atomic Scan, so the program is needed to triangulate the position of the chip for the surgical machine itself.

Now. As to why an awake craniotomy is the way to go. Again, it allows the team to actively monitor cognitive function. Only in extenuating circumstances will the patient be completely sedated. This could be preference on the patient's part or due to certain circumstances.

Look at Tup, for example. His chip was rotting in his skull, and it's treated like a tumor (technically it is). Keeping him awake risked damage to himself and others. In light of this, it was safer for him to remain fully sedated. Additionally, he probably couldn't be revived completely either due to the already existent brain damage. This is an extenuating circumstance. Note however that there was still a qualified individual present for the surgery: the AZI droid maybe Nale Se, maybe Fives, I legit don't remember I'm so sorry). Now, there is another side to Tup's case: the Kaminoans. Nale Se wouldn't have cared for Tup's continued functionality; she only wanted his chip. She would have kept him sedated out of convenience, because the intent was always to have him decommissioned anyway.

Now for Fives. Fives learned about the chips. He had his removed. Who helped him? AZI. However, my theory here is that it isn't actually AZI performing the surgeries. I think he just... holds the programs for various surgeries and programs the surgical machine. We don't see anything of Fives' actual chip removal procedure, only the aftermath. I hypothesize that Fives was awake in the machine however, just properly anesthetized by AZI - who, as a medical assistant droid, would most likely be programmed as an anesthesiologist - and also observed by AZI. What I'm saying is that AZI probably was monitoring Fives' cognitive functions while he underwent an awake craniotomy to remove the chip in his head.

Rex. We know nothing about that procedure, just that it happened (unless we do, idk). Either another clone medic helped him and was there to monitor cognitive function, or Rex involved the help of another droid in order to be properly anesthetized for the process. Given the intense nature of the circumstances, he wouldn't have wanted to be fully sedated for the process in case he had to respond quickly to the chaos - which he did, leading ultimately to him and Ahsoka escaping with their lives. So, he wouldn't have been monitored (except maybe by a droid), but he definitely wouldn't have been fully sedated, either.

Then for CF99. For these procedures, we see Tech program the machine and then stand watch as they go in. They aren't sedated, with the technical exception of Wrecker (iirc, he was stunned unconscious). It's not just caution or paranoia that makes him observe, and not even just his knowledge of what's happening: it's procedure. He's there, as the only one who would know how to check, monitoring the cognitive function of his family.

Now, the conclusion, lol.

I mentioned my two hypotheses earlier about why fandom as a whole writes the clones being completely sedated. After going through all of this, I'm leaning more towards a simple abundance of misinformation. It's technically and tactically safer and more correct for the clones to be awake for their chip removals, and in fact seems to be subtly portrayed in canon (though it's really written in a way that can be interpreted either way).

The moral of this story is that TV medical dramas are shit and should never be taken at face value. Honestly. No one wakes up after CPR. They remain unconscious for a while. Defibrillation doesn't wake a person up, either. If you're hit hard enough to be knocked unconscious, you have a concussion. It takes seven minutes to kill a person by choking them, not seven seconds, but you can make them pass out in seven seconds if you apply pressure to the write spots on their neck in order to cut blood flow to the brain. Stuff like that. Oh, and yeah: awake craniotomies are a thing and are the safe way to remove a clone's chip.

[ahhlehlehlehleh]

Self indulgent au where Fives and Tup encounter Dogma in the Inhibitor Chip / Clone Protocol 66 Arc. Also they all live.

Extra rough doodle that I felt it didn't really fit anywhere at the above (and also I messed up on the clean up and just got sad).

[phoenixyfriend]

Something something """canon""" age difference, modern AU where Rex actually is a decade younger than Anakin

And for Reasons, 34yo Anakin and 39yo Padme have decided to invite this Hot Young 24yo Who Just Exited The Military into their bed for a quick romp that turns into something of a longterm relationship that is sortakinda sugaring

………….just realized this makes Rex only [checks math] twelve or thirteen years older than the twins.

Which is very funny to me. These tweens are so unimpressed by the GI Bill college guy their parents are wooing. Is this supposed to be their new babysitter? A nanny? Wait, he's your boyfriend??? EW.

Such a weird age difference to have with your sorta stepkids

[jockbots]

At any given point, assume I am thinking about Commander Cody

[fellthemarvelous]

Ahsoka sassing the shit out of Anakin and making Rex laugh the first time they meet.

Anakin had never before experienced such betrayal from his own Captain.

[jessicas-pi]

hear me out on this ok. ROTS AU where Anakin still turns to the dark side but that's Palpatine's problem.

So, Palpatine decides last minute that ehhhh maybe dooku could come in handy later and he doesn't encourage Anakin to kill him, and Dooku gets arrested and imprisoned in the Jedi Temple awaiting trial. (Also he didn't get his hands cut off because of uhh plot reasons?)

Fast forward.

Palpatine is encouraging Anakin towards the Dark side, tells him about Plagueis the Wise, etc. etc. But see, the thing is, Anakin is at the end of his tether, probably hasn't slept more than three hours over the past week, and has no remaining impulse control or inhibitions, and upon hearing that the Dark Side can save people from death, his first thought is, "wait a sec, we've got a Sith Lord in-house at the moment!" and he sprints out of the space opera and books it back to the temple.

Now, Dooku has been calmly waiting in Temple custody, confident that Darth Sidious will arrange his escape. But THEN Anakin barges into the cell like OMG THE CHANCELLOR TOLD ME THE SITH KNOW HOW TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM DYING AND I'M HAVING DREAMS ABOUT SOMEONE DYING AND I NEED YOUR HELP TO SAVE THEM

At which point, Dooku realizes Palpatine's plan. He's going to tempt Skywalker to the Dark side and REPLACE DOOKU. this is totally uncool.

So he's like "...who are you dreaming about, exactly?"

Anakin freezes. He can't admit it's Padme because their relationship is top-secret and he can't admit how important she is to him so he tries to think of a good fib and goes "uhhhh OBI-WAN! Obi-Wan, it's Obi-Wan, I'm dreaming about Obi-Wan dying-" and he just throws himself into the drama because now he IS imagining obi-wan dying because Obi-Wan is fighting grievous at the moment and he MIGHT ACTUALLY DIE and that's in addition to Padme dying and he's totally spiraling at this point- "pleasepleaseplease you gotta help me he's like the only father i've ever known I don't know what i'll do without obi-wan I have to save him YOU GOTTA TELL ME WHAT TO DO I'LL DO ANYTHING--"

Dooku begins to smile.

(Would stealing Skywalker out from under his Master's nose be petty? Oh, yeah.)

(But it would also be very, very satisfying.)

---

Obi-Wan calls in to a council meeting to report his defeat of Grievous, but before he can say so, Mace announces that Dooku has escaped and the Sith Master has been killed.

Silence falls between the eleven councilmembers (eleven, not twelve, because their newest one is conspicuously absent. Obi-Wan wonders just what Anakin's up to now. Honestly, that boy will be the death of him.)

Obi-Wan clears his throat.

"...indeed," he says, trying to handle the shocking news with composure. "Well... at least we're down to one Sith, now."

Another awkward pause.

"Yeah, about that--" Mace begins.

[moongothic]

So the Seraphim only take orders from certain people they've been programmed to follow (namely the Vegapunks and the Gorosei), but also they do take orders from individuals who possess an authority chip. Between that and the knowledge that the Seraphim are cyborgs, it makes me wonder...

Like, do they have somekinda control chip installed somewhere in their bodies (brain, spine?) that acts as the thing that forces them to follow orders and not act (too much) on their own will? 'Cause would the existence of an authority chip, a thing that essentially "sends out orders", not also imply the existence of something that recieves the order (like other than their brain) and forcibly puts it into motion? Something similar to whatever visual scanner+database combo Vegapunk installed into Kuma that allowed him to instantly recognize certain people and whether or not they were enemies or allies to him (at least as far as the WG thinks)

'Cause if so, like. I wonder. Could you remove that chip and basically free the Seraphim from being just borderline-mindless flesh robots?

In that scenario... what would they become?

Because, like, we don't know how much Free Will the Seraphim even have, how developed their minds are? Are/would they be fully functional human beings (if immature because they're still kids) who have just had half their mind essentially turned off so they don't think about anything else except following orders? If you freed them from the WG's control would they be able to live and function freely just like Stussy's clone can? But when being under that kind of control is all they've ever known, would they know how to function? Like what do you do, where do you go, who do you become? Who are you to begin with, does that even matter? What about your relation to the person you were cloned from, what does that mean? Are you doomed (🐊🦩🦇) or expected (🦈🐻🐍🦅) to become just like the person you were cloned from? Do you even want that? What will having that kind of freedom to do and become whatever you want even mean to someone who has never known what it means to even want something for themselves?

(But also, depending on who you were cloned from, would people even trust you enough to allow you go free and live your own life, or would you be deemed a threat by simply existing because you are the clone of a horrible, heinous person?) (Of course, we know existing is not a crime, and no one is born into this world a criminal. But we also know the World of One Piece does not always think this kindly)

[gospelofme]

One of my many delusional personal headcanons.

Riyo has Fox secretly stashed away in a safe house. She had him go into hiding after Order 66 died down.

[maulfucker]

time for clones

[tales-of-the-ghost-zone]

Dani in The Clone Wars

I just love the idea of Dani falling into the Star Wars universe (or alternatively the Star Wars universe is the same universe as the Danny Phantom universe they just happen to be in different parts of the universe) and meeting the clones. Cause like she’s a clone too. And not just any clone but a (technically) “defective” clone that originally had unstable DNA.

Like she meets the clones and just basically unknowingly trauma dumps on them. Just like “yeah I’m a clone to. I was supposed to be a boy but somehow came out a girl. And my genetic structure was super unstable for the first year of my life and I almost melted into a puddle of ectoplasmic goo because of it. But then my original Danny was able to stabilize me. My creator Vlad tried to kill me multiple times too. And also I’m the only surviving clone, all the other were to unstable and melted into goo!”

And the clones are all just horrified. Cause like A. She’s the only surviving clone of her batch and all her batch mates died. B. She was originally genetically unstable and for them something like that would have gotten them decommissioned, something her creator attempted to do to her but her original stopped it and saved her! And C. she’s just this tiny little child whose only like two-ish years old and she’s already been through so much!

The clones all make the executive decision to adopt her as their little sister! She’s now one of them! They will protect her with everything they’ve got!! And Dani just adopts them back. And she is a tiny little feral gremlin child, spirits have mercy on the souls of anyone who fucks with her clone brothers because she sure as hell won’t!!!

[quirkypossum]

i just decided all my star wars fics are in an au where the clones fast aging thing is tied to the inhibitor chips and stops when the chip is damaged or removed

[kimbureh]

TBB's Crosshair & shame, fear, inferiority complex

having finally watched The Bad Batch Season 1 in its entirety, it's fascinating to see Crosshair's character development cuz he is exactly the type of person who would be seduced by fascist propaganda such as the Empire's. And I ache for him so much.

He is vulnerable to the Empire's ideology because out of the five Batchers, Crosshair's actions are the most driven by shame, fear, and a deep inferiority complex.

In retrospect it seems obvious to me that his character arc in TBB was at least roughly mapped out by the time he was first introduced in Clone Wars The Final Season, because none of the other Batchers would make such an easy target for the Empire.

But lets reverse engineer the plot as if you had to pick the one Bad Batcher to be affected by the inhibitor chip for a compelling story. Which Batcher do you pick for maximum impact, and why?

Ironically, the next best option, for me, is Wrecker, and they did a speedrun for this scenario in the series. Wrecker is an interesting case, because he is in many ways the exact opposite to Crosshair.

The three characteristics that make Crosshair especially susceptible for the Empire's propaganda are, as mentioned, his shame, fear, and a deep inferiority complex. Wrecker isn't ruled by these things the way Crosshair is. Yes, he is scared, and quite frequently so. But Wrecker is not ashamed to admit his fear in front of his team mates and trusts they won't look down on him. Wrecker isn't ashamed of his emotions and shortcomings, at least not to the same degree as Crosshair is. I think all Batchers carry a considerable load of shame being treated as and seeing themselves as defective, but Crosshair is affected by this mindset the most.

Which is why Crosshair all but jumps on the idea of serving a purpose under the Empire, especially once his old old purpose under the Republic becomes obsolete. He cannot bear the idea that he might be deemed useless, he cannot endure the uncertainty that comes with finding a purpose on his own. And doesn't the Empire have a neat antidote for that? Crosshair is not stupid, he is aware that the Empire doesn't respect him as a Clone, but this is about survival. Given that I don't have watched Season 2 yet (please no spoilers), I can only assume it was Crosshair's worst nightmare to be ruled by the inhibitor chip and be abandoned the only people in the galaxy he thought he could truly trust. And his trust isn't earned easily.

Wrecker's arc when he was ruled by the inhibitor chip showed how a person can deal with the shame of lashing out and hurting loved ones. His arc is, again, a speedrun of Crosshair's, at least thematically. Crosshair has to become more like Wrecker in order to overcome his inner struggle and complete his arc, which is why I see with delight how the writers have subtly set in place this unique relationship despite Hunter being the main focal point of Crosshair's character development. Things like, Crosshair allowing himself to cry (!) in front of Wrecker at the armory. Crosshair and Wrecker bunking next to each other. Wrecker being the first to admit he misses Crosshair. Wrecker asking Crosshair to come back twice in the season finale. And in Clone Wars, there's the friendly rivalry both seem to thrive in. I just love them, your honor (all of them).

[wwheeljack]

I still do not understand when people use Crosshair's actions under the chip - those which we canonly know are done thanks to the inhibitor chip, such as killing Saw's rebels in Replacements - as actions he willingly took. No one does that to Tup after he murdered Tiplar thanks to his chip, or any of the other chip controlled clones, so why is that same leniency not given to Crosshair?

[lordsireno]

Arkanian Jedi known as "Stitches", a Consular sage whose force healing skill kept her from active combat in the Clone Wars.

Usually dispatched at the end of conflicts to help recover the injured, she also partook in research expeditions with her clone troops. She didn't have an official group, but instead a collection of survivors from other conflicts and defects that were deemed unfit for combat. Her love for biomechanics often toed the line of ethics, though clones made easy test subjects that could be dismissed for the 'greater good'

[verysaxyberry]

Filoni is really trying to have his cake and eat to in regards to the inhibitor chip

[arkvoodlee]

☆ 〈 sc.

𝐉𝐄𝐑𝐈𝐂𝐇𝐎 … 𝐇𝐄 𝐎𝐕𝐄𝐑𝐇𝐄𝐀𝐑𝐃 𝐓𝐇𝐄𝐌 𝐂𝐀𝐋𝐋 𝐈𝐓 , a sanctuary ( a metallic tomb was a better name ) , a home to many in the unlikeliest of places . it came with another name ... markus . that name often 𝐬𝐩𝐨𝐤𝐞𝐧 𝐥𝐢𝐤𝐞 𝐚 𝐩𝐚𝐫𝐢𝐚𝐡 beckoning a new age , like it meant something more to them ; however , he knew better than to put fortune in the hands of another . CLOAKED BEHIND FLESHY HUSK , the emblematic raucous 𝐞𝐱𝐭𝐫𝐨𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐭𝐞𝐝 𝐩𝐞𝐫𝐬𝐨𝐧𝐚𝐥𝐢𝐭𝐲 kept dormant . no wise cracks , no witty one liners , not if the ruse was to maintain , that was what was eating away at him . it took every fibre of his body not to crack , 𝐧𝐨𝐭 𝐭𝐨 𝐟𝐚𝐥𝐭𝐞𝐫 ; just keep his head down and avoid attention . squatting upon rusted beams , his eyes 𝐝𝐚𝐧𝐜𝐞 between conversations , scouting his surroundings , his escapes and the people . all had seemed 𝐜𝐚𝐥𝐦 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐬𝐞𝐫𝐞𝐧𝐞 , that was until he felt @synthwealth 's presence pass next to him .