#clear winner

[gleesongtournament]

[sillylotrpolls]

Didn't expect this one to have such a clear winner that wasn't "Gandalf is Pippin's granddad" (12.7%), but apparently the power of pipeweed is just that strong. Even if you add the votes for all three "non-hobbit ancestor" options it's still only 23%; not within even a statistical margin of error of "pipeweed's" 28.3%. (As a reminder, perfectly even distribution would result in 8.33% for each option.)

I was also surprised that "his name means 'old man'" placed third (10.8%), but then again, Tolkien fans do love their linguistics. And interestingly, "he borrowed the One Ring" and "he had a lesser magic ring" had very distant 11th- and 12th-place finishes, with only 0.9% and 0.7% of the vote respectively.

Other than that, not much to say beyond that I hope we see more fanfiction plumbing this clearly deep well of ideas.

(Credit and a truly absurd amount of context below the poll in case you don't know who the Old Took is.)

Today's poll looks at a question posed by @sindar-princeling:

Bilbo barely passed Old Took's record lifespan after having a supernaturally-life-extending ring for 60 years. which begs a question. what the hell did Old Took do

In the notes on that post, the most popular theory by far was espoused by @mitsuhachiinthehive, who posited that Gandalf hooked up with a hobbit at some point and [some of] the Tooks are his descendants. This idea was further spread thanks to @the-haiku-bot.

Additional theories which I cribbed for poll options:

The diamond cufflinks were magical in more ways than one @elodieunderglass

He drank an ent-draught courtesy of the missing ent wives @betterofflost

He got hold of a random magic elven ring @morgulscribe

If you would like some a lot of context from canon so you can decide for yourself, more information about the Old Took is beneath the cut.

First off, it's established multiple times in the books what a big deal it was for Bilbo to beat Old Took's record. From The Return of the King:

He opened his eyes and looked up as they came in. 'Hullo, hullo!' he said. 'So you've come back? And tomorrow's my birthday, too. How clever of you! Do you know, I shall be one hundred and twenty-nine? And in one year more, if I am spared, I shall equal the Old Took. I should like to beat him; but we shall see.' [...] Little Elanor was nearly six months old, and 1421 had passed to its autumn, when Frodo called Sam into the study. 'It will be Bilbo's Birthday on Thursday, Sam,' he said. 'And he will pass the Old Took. He will be a hundred and thirty-one!' 'So he will!' said Sam. 'He's a marvel!'

Here's a biography on the old hobbit from Tolkien Gateway:

After the death of his father in 1248, Gerontius became the twenty-sixth Thain of the Shire. He was a friend of Gandalf, who gave him a pair of magic diamond studs and performed firework tricks during Gerontius' midsummer-eve parties. Gerontius Took reached the impressive age of 130, which made him the oldest Hobbit until his grandson Bilbo Baggins celebrated his 131st Birthday. He also held the record of most offspring, until Samwise Gamgee bested him with Tom's birth in S.R. 1442.

And from Tolkien Gateway's page on the Took Family:

Tooks were mainly of Fallohide Hobbit stock, and had quite a reputation for unusual behavior (among other things being more adventurous than the other Hobbits), a quality not valued in the Shire. For this they would be seen as less respectable, but those traits were "tolerated" thanks to their large numbers and wealth. An absurd legend among other families, was that one of the Took ancestors married a fairy. The Wizard Gandalf was a known, if disreputable, associate.

Here we have Gandalf introducing himself to Bilbo in The Hobbit. Note that Belladonna Took is one of the Old Took's 12 (!!) children.

“Yes, yes, my dear sir—and I do know your name, Mr. Bilbo Baggins. And you do know my name, though you don’t remember that I belong to it. I am Gandalf, and Gandalf means me! To think that I should have lived to be good-morninged by Belladonna Took’s son, as if I was selling buttons at the door!” “Gandalf, Gandalf! Good gracious me! Not the wandering wizard that gave Old Took a pair of magic diamond studs that fastened themselves and never came undone till ordered? Not the fellow who used to tell such wonderful tales at parties, about dragons and goblins and giants and the rescue of princesses and the unexpected luck of widows’ sons? Not the man that used to make such particularly excellent fireworks! I remember those! Old Took used to have them on Midsummer’s Eve. Splendid! They used to go up like great lilies and snapdragons and laburnums of fire and hang in the twilight all evening!” You will notice already that Mr. Baggins was not quite so prosy as he liked to believe, also that he was very fond of flowers. “Dear me!” he went on. “Not the Gandalf who was responsible for so many quiet lads and lasses going off into the Blue for mad adventures? Anything from climbing trees to visiting elves—or sailing in ships, sailing to other shores! Bless me, life used to be quite inter—I mean, you used to upset things badly in these parts once upon a time. I beg your pardon, but I had no idea you were still in business.” “Where else should I be?” said the wizard. “All the same I am pleased to find you remember something about me. You seem to remember my fireworks kindly, at any rate, and that is not without hope. Indeed for your old grandfather Took’s sake, and for the sake of poor Belladonna, I will give you what you asked for.”

And for context, Sam was 102 when he sailed West, Merry was at least 103 and almost certainly older when he died, and Pippin at least 95. The uncertainty is because Tolkien describes their last years thus in the Appendices:

1484 In the spring of the year a message came from Rohan to Buckland that King Éomer wished to see Master Holdwine once again. Meriadoc was then old (102) but still hale. He took counsel with his friend the Thain [Pippin], and soon after they handed over their goods and offices to their sons and rode away over the Sam Ford, and they were not seen again in the Shire. It was heard after that Master Meriadoc came to Edoras and was with King Éomer before he died in that autumn. Then he and Thain Peregrin went to Gondor and passed what short years were left to them in that realm, until they died and were laid in Rath Dínen among the great of Gondor. 1541 In this year on March 1st came at last the Passing of King Elessar. It is said that the beds of Meriadoc and Peregrin were set beside the bed of the great king. Then Legolas built a grey ship in Ithilien, and sailed down Anduin and so over Sea; and with him, it is said, went Gimli the Dwarf. And when that ship passed an end was come in the Middle-earth of the Fellowship of the Ring.

[tainebot01]

Saying farewell to the fanon names, in my own special way…

[ckret2]

rock paper scissors time, here's how this is gonna work: you win if you vote for the option that beats the option that gets the MOST votes. you lose if you vote for the option that the most people choose.

[krazieka2]

I've played the Fire Emblem Husbando Dating Simulator Games

[naffeclipse]

I love that two people tagged me in this ALDSFJAF

it’s mothman’s birthday everyone say happy birthday mothman 🥳🎉

[whereispearlescentmoon]

If you have ever used the phrase “Scott gave Pearl her win in Double Life” or “Scott let Pearl win” or “Scott also won” or anything that implied Scott had anything to do with Pearl winning Double Life other than blowing himself up I have probably blocked you if I saw it and I’m not sorry. Pearl killed the last two soulmate pairs who weren’t her and Scott. She eliminated the last competitors. He gave her nothing, she won completely on her own merit.

Yeah he blew himself up, but like, she was going to kill him anyways? She was better geared and had a wolf army? I know people probably don’t mean it a way to invalidate her win, but the idea that her “gave her” or “let her” win is complete BS that discredits Pearl’s actual skill. She won by herself fair and square.

[carveredlunds]

heavy is the head that wears the cunty little bob (inspired by this incredible text post by @overthegardenwirtt)

[semisolidmind]

Catnap and Dogday fight over being on Y/n's lap whenever they sit down in the cabin. You can't change my mind... Also, my compliments to the chef *Takes a chomp outta some art on the way out*

yep. though i don't think y/n would sit through it. they'd probably just get up and go do something else if the toys were going to fight over lap privileges. besides, dogday has the advantage because he actually gets to stay in the house. catnap has to wait for y/n to leave and get far enough out of the dog's reach so that he can snag them for cuddles.

[a-caterpillars-world]

The Chariot and his entourage

[I] [II] [III] [IV] [V] [VI] [VII]

[leopardom]

we went from Bojan jacking off for a scene in a movie to Bojan in a mini dress in the span of a year, call that variety or what

[ninyard]

Nin I have also been thinking about Kevin on Hot Ones after watching that Patti LuPone/Aubrey Plaza Hot Ones Versus episode because obviously my immediate first thought was “what if this were Neil and Kevin!”. especially the apologise to Madonna part (link to the clip if you haven’t seen it https://youtube.com/shorts/HlIp1KcrDOQ?si=lcgF7rVteDugPGnE ) because the idea of Neil doing that after being asked to apologise to the Ravens/Riko and Kevin trying to Stay Calm during is so fun to me. alternatively both of them on the Vanity Fair Lie Detector Test asking each other questions kills me as well

Neil: Who do you think is the best striker in Exy history?

Kevin: Riko Moriyama

Examiner: That’s a lie

Kevin: Who do you think is the best striker in Exy history?

Neil: Kevin Day

Examiner: He’s telling the truth

Make them do fun press together and take several years off of Kevin’s life from stress!

NO BUT THE VANITY FAIR INTERVIEWS WITH KEVIN AND NEIL???? I was literally thinking about that earlier like

Neil: Who’s the best player in the league right now?

Kevin: You.

Examiner: That’s a lie.

Neil: If you want to say yourself it’s okay.

Kevin: Why do you think that I think it’s me?

Neil: Is it?

Kevin: No. [immediately looks at the examiner]

Examiner: That’s the truth.

Neil, smug: Oh, no, I know what you’re thinking. There’s a right answer and there’s a Kevin answer. I’ll reword my question. Which player are you the biggest fan of?

Kevin: No, ask me the other question. Who’s the best?

Neil: He’s already blushing, look. Kevin. Is Jeremy Knox the player you’re the biggest fan of?

Kevin: This isn’t fair.

Neil: This only works if you answer the questions.

Kevin: [pause] Yes.

[They both look at the examiner]

Examiner: he’s telling the truth.

[they slowly look back at each other while Neil holds out his hands like he’s proved a point or something.]

[sillylotrpolls]

Results

Someone let Tolkien know his instincts were right on: when he was debating names for the second installment of his trilogy, he considered "The Treason of Isengard" before ultimately deciding that it wasn't relevant to Sam and Frodo's journey and so shouldn't be the full title. It did, however, get used as the title for the first half of the book.

I'm not sure how many people voting for it picked it because they knew it was Tolkien's second choice vs because they simply liked it out of the available options. However, the fact that it got all the way up to ~35% of the vote before falling back down to 26.7% strongly suggests that a good portion of the early votes were indeed from book readers. (My polls usually reach the hardcore fans first, then gradually spread to the casuals.)

Most of the other options were pretty close to the expected average for a poll with 12 options (8.33%). Much to my surprise, however, the least popular option was Frodo and the Mountain of Doom (1.4%), which I personally thought was a quite clever take on Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. Not sure why that didn't catch on.

Additional context

For those of you too young to remember or who simply weren't paying attention at the time, when 9/11 happened and the Twin Towers were destroyed in a terrorist attack several movies that were then in production made last-minute changes in response.

Most famously, Spider-man (the first one) removed all references to the towers after having featured them prominently in promotional materials. And animation fans are probably familiar with the story that Stitch originally hijacked a plane which he flew perilously close to buildings in Lilo and Stitch.

Obviously, The Two Towers was released with its original name intact, but there was a small movement to rename it at the time. Or more accurately, people pointed out the obvious "problem" with the title and wondered on the internet if it was going to "have" to be changed. This being 2002 and not 2022, the powers that be thankfully did not particularly care what some people on the internet said.

Also, although not strictly relevant to this poll, please appreciate this graphic someone on Wikipedia went to the trouble of making showing possible pairs of towers Tolkien considered having the title refer to.

In case you missed it

@rohirric-hunter shared a touching story about ordering the audio book of The Two Towers as a Barnes & Noble employee.

The movie references

If you wanted to know what movies were being referenced, a complete list is below the cut.

2 Lords 2 Rings (10.3%) 2 Fast 2 Furious - This was the title that made the least sense if you thought about it, but the format is a relatively common meme so I'm assuming that's why it overperformed the expected average.

Frodo and the Mountain of Doom (1.4%) Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom - Well, I thought it was clever.

The Ents Strike Back (5.4%) Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back - Honestly, I was pretty proud of this one too.

Look Who's Walking Too (3.2%) Look Who's Talking Too - This got my own vote. It's so broadly applicable to the story!

Rohan Family Values (2.8%) Addam's Family Values - I didn't expect this one to do well, and it didn't.

Frodo & Sam's Bogus Journey (8.2%) Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey - Looking at the notes, I'm not sure how many people voting for this one actually knew about the Bill & Ted sequel versus just liking the word "bogus."

The Desolation of Saruman (7.9%) The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug - I didn't expect this one to do well either, but it held its own well enough.

The One With Helm's Deep (8.8%) Friends episode names reference - All Friends episodes are titled something like "The One With..." or "The One Where...", to the point that titles often use the abbreviation "TOW."

The Treason of Isengard (26.7%) As discussed above, this came directly from Tolkien himself. The Treason of Isengard is Book III (aka part 1 of The Two Towers), and The Ring Goes East is Book IV (aka part 2).

Lord of the Rings 2: Electric Boogaloo (9.7%) Breakin 2: Electric Boogaloo - At this point, the sequel's title is better known than anything else about Breakin. Know Your Meme has a nice article on the topic.

Lord of the Rings 2: The Search For More Money (3%) Spaceballs reference - I was sad this one didn't do very well either (10 of 12), but I think people were aiming for more "serious" answers so they laughed but didn't actually vote for it.

Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring: Part 2 (12.5%) Reference to the glut of movies titled this way nowadays - Honestly a little disappointed this one placed second, actually, since to me it's the most boring of all. But I guess that's also what made it funny?

[aingeal98]

Something I enjoy a lot about Cass is that with a lot of heroes that don't kill it can easily veer into self righteousness. It happens with Bruce a fair amount and while it can make for a compelling character beat if done well, if done poorly it just kind of makes the reader annoyed lmao. Like why am I supposed to root for this guy when he's saying "If you shoot the man who killed your parents your soul will be forever ruined!" and acting like there's no difference between types of kill?

And the thing about Cass is that while her no kill rule is based on the experience of watching someone die and the horror she felt, and while she does project it into pretty much everyone she meets... It never comes across as unlikeably self righteous to me. Like for Cass every kill is a tragedy and while her no death rule is a moral statement it's also given more importance as an rule that gives us psychological insight into what governs and drives her. Even when she's wrong, even when the villain is so sympathetic and justified that there's no reason to root for her, the narrative always feels very self aware about it. Like when she let that father get arrested despite him just wanting his daughter back. The writer (Puckett of course) wasn't interested in convincing the reader that Cass's judgement was the morally correct choice. He was interested in what it said about her that it was the choice she chose.

And similarly when she approaches people to try and stop them from killing she always lacks the morally righteous air a lot of others carry. She's desperate and earnest and determined to get them to change but it's not because she thinks she's in any way better than them and has the right to pass judgement because of it. It's someone who genuinely believes that she's irredeemable manically trying to save everyone else because if these killers can do the right thing and turn over a new leaf then maybe... Just maybe... there's hope for her?

It's so compelling to me. The desperation and clear projection that happens when she goes out determined to enforce and/or promote her code to as many people possible. Every time she says someone can change she's speaking from experience. Because she views herself as irredeemable and beneath everyone but she's still out here trying to be good so maybe if others make the same choice it's proof that she's not doomed. That none of them are. She doesn't want the hitman to redeem himself by becoming a hero and helping his former victims. She just wants him to walk away, to start a peaceful and quiet new life. And when he fails to do that and they meet again she still won't give up on him. When she stands in front of the victims family she won't declare she knows better. She'll hopefully and uncertainty ask "But maybe... He can change?"

Like there's so much heart behind everything she does and every action she takes. Every time the topic of killing people comes up she's so earnest and clearly projecting her own issues and seeing herself in every murderer and it's so fun. It's so fascinating. I miss Batgirl 2000.

[tit-spoilers]

I really hope that Dan and Phil know how much their presence on the internet has done for their aromantic/arospec fans (even though I don't think they do)

I know everyone is talking about a hard launch, and I love the jokes, but ultimately them keeping the details of their relationship to themselves has inadvertently made it so that arospec people (as represented by me personally, I am not about to speak for a whole entire community with a variety of experiences) feel represented and reassured. Not saying that Dan and Phil are themselves arospec or in a QPR or anything like that. I'm actually almost 100% sure they don't even know those words. But that doesn't mean their relationship can't be aspirational for people like me. Because it doesn't fit into a box. It's not made valid and significant by the label of romantic. The reason it's so magical is just because it's them and they love each other. Their relationship is unlike anyone else's, because no one's relationship is like anyone else's. It doesn't matter if a relationship is "romantic" or "platonic" or anything else. What matters is that they love each other a lot, and they have for a long time. And that's so hopeful. It's about the idea that you don't have to fit your relationships into neat little boxes. It can just be that you make each other laugh, support each other no matter what, know way too much about each other, and love each other so much it seeps into everything you do.

All of this is not to say that I would complain about a hard launch. If they do it, then of course I will be very happy for them, because it would mean that they feel comfortable enough for that. And if that makes them happy, then hell yeah!! Good for them!! But I just don't think they will. Because at this point everything they've shared carries way more weight than the word "dating" ever could. And that's why I, as an arospec person, feel grateful for the representation of the kind of relationship(s) I want in my life. They are a prime example of a relationship the value of which does not lie in a label.

Overall, "We were more than just romantic" <- yessssss yessss yeeeesssssssssss yeeesssssss yessss

(Also they love playing mind games with us and we love their mind games but that's a separate topic lmao)

[tennessoui]

it’s like baby gorl there’s no way I, the author who wrote the fic you’re commenting on and who is the intended audience for this comment, am gonna agree with you 😿🙏 some things can just stay on your chest 🙏