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unsolicited-opinions · 21 days ago

Text

On recent far-left attacks on the Anti-Defamation League

Before we start:

- I think the ADL is wrong about Musk's salutes.

- I think the ADL's Israel advocacy sometimes comes into conflict with their mission in the diaspora. I think their methodologies for data collection and reporting need improvement.

- I think that the ADL is flawed, imperfect and does much more good than harm.

---

Christopher Hitchens put into words what academics used to live by:

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence".

The burden of proof is on those making the claim, and the claims of droptheadl.org aren't supported with primary sources or evidence.

For example:

To support its claims about the ADL and SNCC, droptheadl.org offers a link, presenting it as a citation.

This is a link to a Google Books entry. There's no actual text, no citation, no chapter, no page, just the claim that somewhere in this 300-page book exists proof of the ADL denouncing SNCC as racist.

However, that's not in the book. Chapter two talks about this incident in detail, so I read it.

In reaponse to a SNCC newsletter (this is what a primary source looks like!) containing many factual errors about Israel,

...Morris Abram, president of the American Jewish Committee (AJC), summed up their outrage: “Anti-Semitism is anti-Semitism whether it comes from the Ku Klux Klan or from extremist Negro groups

[For those who haven't studied the era: at this point, "Negro" was still the word which the black community preferred. The transition to widespread identification as 'black' got going in the 60s and finished in the 70s. The use of the word 'Negro' here is not a slur. I state this in advance because I know how the illiberal left weilds its willful ignorance]

...

Abram was also careful to echo what the ADL had said: that SNCC’s article put it in the same anti-Israeli trench as the Arab world and the Soviet Union.

That's verifiably, unquestionably true. That's the position SNCC took, because that's where they got their information.

Droptheadl.org lied. This book doesn't say what they claim it says, which is why they didn't quote it or offer a specific citation. Why let facts get in the way of the narrative which makes them feel good about themselves?

The book, which I recommend reading, isn't about the ADL. It's a scholarly examination of the relationships between the wars the Arab world launched on Israel and the US Civil Rights Movement. This requires much discussion of the impact on the complex relationships between black communities and Jewish communities in the US in the context of their views on Israel and Palestine.

It's fascinating. Here's another excerpt illustrating why many Jews saw SNCC as taking an antisemitic turn:

One day in May of 1967, [Stokely] Carmichael and [H. Rap] Brown were in Alabama chatting with Donald Jelinek, a lawyer who worked with SNCC.

Jelinek, who was Jewish, expressed his positive feelings about Israel and his concerns about the Jewish state’s situation in that tension-filled month as war clouds were on the horizon in the Middle East.

“So it was a shock to me,” Jelinek later recounted, “when my SNCC friends mildly indicated support for the Arabs.” Mildly stated or not, their sentiments prompted Jelinek to reply, “But they may wipe out and destroy Israel.”

Carmichael adroitly changed the subject with some humor, and the men began laughing.

Jelinek thereafter overheard Brown quietly singing to himself, “arms for the Arabs, sneakers for the Jews.” When Jelinek asked him what that song meant, an embarrassed Brown explained that he had learned the song as a student in Louisiana. It implied that the Israelis would need sneakers (tennis shoes) to run from the Arabs, who were armed with weapons from abroad.

My qualms with this, my disappointment in and disagreement with both Carmichael and Brown doesn't make me a racist. It doesn't make the AJC or the ADL racist and it doesn't make Jelinek, the Jewish lawyer working with SNCC, a racist or a poor ally.

Zionism is the belief that Jews should have self-determination in their homeland.

Nazism was the belief that racially superior Aryans own the world, should be organized through fascist methods, and that the genocide of the Jewish people was explicitly required because they were the source of all evil and the obstacle to progress.

These are not the same. Suggesting they are the same, as Carmichael did, is morally and intellectually bankrupt. Pointing this out doesn't make me a racist. It makes me literate.

I still own a copy of Carmichael's book, Black Power. Carmichael (who later changed his name to Kwame Ture) was a complex person. Like every other historical figure, he was neither a saint nor a demon.

I can admire a lot about the Black Panthers without falsely claiming that nothing they ever did or said was troubling, poorly reasoned, or bigoted. The world is more complex than that.

There are no saints. Learn this important truth and use it to guide your understanding of the world around you. There are no saints.

Gandhi, for instance, was a great leader for Indian self-rule and a visionary of nonviolent protest. He was also a racist as a young man who said black people "...are troublesome, very dirty and live like animals." Read about his work in South Africa. He was also really weird about sex and slept naked with his grand niece, which we rightly recognize today as sexual abuse. He wasn't a saint or a demon, he was a person.

People are complex and flawed. If you want to understand people, history, and movements, wrap your head around this as keep it with you: People and their movements are complex and flawed.

But the depth of reasoning I see from the illiberal left is "ADL criticized SNCC, so they're Nazis."

No, child. The world is much, much more complex than that. Why did you go to college if you weren't going to learn anything there?

My 14yo is right. US leftists (not liberals, leftists) are allergic to nuance and discard the facts contradicting any narrative which makes them feel good about themselves.

Selah

Deep breath in, slow breath out.

The book is really delves into some of the factors contributing to the deteriorating relationship at the time between Jewish Americans and Black Americans. It points to this essay by James Baldwin, titled "Negroes Are Anti-Semitic Because They're Anti-White." I urge you to read it, it is a fascinating artifact of its time and place.

And this:

Jews had long advocated for black liberation by, for example, playing a role in the foundation of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) in 1909. Jewish support for blacks was well known; as early as February of 1942, the American Jewish Committee published a study titled “Jewish Contribution to Negro Welfare.” Having experienced the sting of anti-Semitism, many Jews believed they were fighting in the same trench against discrimination alongside African Americans. When the civil rights struggle grew to become a mass movement in the 1950s and early 1960s, Jewish moral and financial support was crucial, and Jews were disproportionately well-represented among those whites who lent their support to the cause. Jewish financial contributions to civil rights groups were also significant. Jews even were the subject of criticism from some southern whites for the high-profile role they played in helping blacks win their freedom. All this compounded a sense of betrayal by SNCC that was felt by many Jewish Americans.

It should not be surprising or taken as racist that Jews objected to SNCC's advocacy against Israel's existence and I maintain that any call for Israel to be destroyed is innately, inarguably antisemitic. No other nation endures calls for its destruction. Just the Jewish one.

There was unquestionably tension between SNCC and the entire spectrum of non-black Americans who supported SNCC when SNCC ejected non-black members. From our perspective, decades removed, I can understand both why SNCC members narrowly voted for this AND why non-black members of SNCC were hurt and disillusioned. All of those perspectives were (and are) valid.

When I was an undergrad studying African American Political Thought, we discussed these tensions head-on, using primary sources, and evaluated them dispassionately.

We concluded that there are no villains in this story. SNCC got a bunch of facts wrong about Israel, their staunch Jewish allies were profoundly disappointed, saw hypocrisy in SNCC's position, and said so.

I think that far left Americans overlaid their feelings about a domestic struggle on a foreign one where they don't fit...and then discarded the facts and the complexity which got in the way of a satisfying narrative which made them feel like the good guys instead of forcing them to grapple with an uncomfortably complex reality.

I think that's what the illiberal left still does. It doesn't like complexity, it doesn't like academic rigor, it likes stories it can tell itself about its moral purity and discards facts, complexity, or rigor which threaten their view of themselves as saviors.

The world is complex. People are complex. Movements are complex. Organizations are complex. History is complex. Justice is complex.

The ADL isn't perfect, its leaders haven't been and are not saints or tzadikim, but the good they do for all Americans radically outweighs their failings and I'm going to keep supporting them while yelling at them to do better.

If you're an ADL hater and have any actual evidence and primary sources on racism from the ADL, I really want to see it, because this weak sauce from droptheadl.org doesn't make the case the illiberal left thinks it makes. And they'd know that if they had learned anything in college about how scholarship works and how arguments are constructed.

The illiberal left perhaps forgets how the ADL responded when Trump called for requiring American Muslims to register.

“If one day Muslim Americans will be forced to register their identities, then that is the day that this proud Jew will register as a Muslim. ”

- ADL chief executive Jonathan Greenblatt

#illiberal left #sncc #Adl #leftist antisemitism #black panthers #jumblr #Black Power and Palestine #anti defamation league #elon musk #Nuance #History #Us history #Intellectual honesty #Intellectual integrity

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xmoonlitxdreamx · 8 months ago

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OW2 Junkrat & Roadhog Relationship (part 1)

Part 2: [click] Part 3: [click] Part 4: [click] Part 5: [click]

Hello! I’ve been curious to try to better understand what Junkrat and Roadhog’s relationship characterization is intended to be in OW2, so I’m gonna take the time to look at various voice lines and other media & try to provide various interpretations of these things.

I'll try to provide both positive and negative interpretations where I see fit, but be aware that I do ship roadrat so I have a bias for interpreting their relationship positively rather than negatively. Overwatch to me though is a franchise that is very loose with its characterization & allows for multiple interpretations of the same characters simultaneously, so I’ll try to be open-minded in the way that I interpret things. Some of these interpretations may also be based on stuff I’ve read in passing from other people here and on twitter, too, so if something looks familiar to what someone else said that’s why. (Apologies for the lack of citations;;)

This first post is looking at Junkrat's OW2 voice lines sourced from this wikia page. (These voice lines may not be up-to-date, and the page does not include many event-specific voice lines) Again, I’ll only be talking about lines that I think give insight into Junkrat and Roadhog’s relationship and how they think of each other.

Anyway! that's that. Interpretations/etc are under the cut!

“So, I was like, Roadhog, mate, just 'cause that's how you see it, doesn't mean that's how she sees it, right? But enough of my earbashing. Let's get out there.”

If taken as truthful: Roadhog goes to Junkrat for romantic advice

If taken as unreliable: Junkrat considers himself as someone who gives good romantic advice, and decided to use Roadhog in his made-up example

In either interpretation: Junkrat considers Roadhog a close enough friend that he talks about Roadhog to other people, and allegedly has personal conversations with Roadhog at some points. (Whether or not Junkrat and Roadhog actually had this conversation isn’t certain since imo Junkrat seems the type to talk out of his ass, but it shows that Junkrat thinks he and Roadhog are close enough that they could have this conversation.)

Unrelated to Junkrat and Roadhog's dynamic, but if taken as truthful this could suggest Roadhog has an interest in women; but if taken as unreliable, it doesn't suggest anything about Roadhog's sexuality

“I feel a sweet verse coming on. Roadhog, give me a beat. …Roadhog?”

Junkrat instinctively commands Roadhog to do things; suggestive of him perceiving himself as “leader” in their relationship.

Roadhog doesn’t listen to him here, so Roadhog likely doesn’t think of himself as subordinate to Junkrat.

This is also a very playful command, so to me it comes from a friendly/playful place that Junkrat wants to sing (rap?) with Roadhog. Could be taken further that Junkrat uses the guise of “I’m Roadhog’s boss and he’s my subordinate” as an excuse to do regular friend stuff with Roadhog.

“Things always go well when you’re working with Junkrat and Roadhog”

Junkrat thinks positively of his partnership with Roadhog, seems to trust him and have confidence when they’re together

“Such perfidy cannot go unanswered!” (respawn line when eliminated by Roadhog)

Perfidy definition from Google: deceitfulness, untrustworthiness

Basically he feels Roadhog is being disloyal to him, indicating that he thinks of Roadhog as someone who’s supposed to be his loyal partner in crime

Possibly suggests that he would seek revenge if Roadhog is disloyal to him, but as usual the delivery is kind of playful, so it might just be more indicative of him acting out this sort of “leader role” for fun

“Guess we know who’s really on top, don’t we?” (eliminating Roadhog)

Suggests that even Junkrat thinks that Roadhog is the one with the power in their partnership, but when push comes to shove Junkrat is the real leader between the two of them

this is innuendo, so this could also suggest that they have sex with each other

not an interpretation, but I actually thought they got rid of this voice line for OW2 so I was surprised to see it on this list lol

“Sorry, old friend..,” (eliminating Roadhog)

straightforward, Junkrat thinks of Roadhog as an old friend

“Bet you never thought you’d see pigs fly! *laughs*” (eliminating Roadhog with concussion mine)

uses pig-related nicknames/etc for Roadhog casually

“Another hogfight for the Cerulean Chancellor!” (eliminating Sigma using Gravitic Flux)

Thb I have no idea what’s going on here, I just thought it was weird he says hogfight. I googled hogfight to see if it’s a common idiom and nothing really came up. No idea if this actually has anything to do with Roadhog, feel free to enlighten me. (idk much abt Sigma)

“That’s what happens when you cross Junkrat and Roadhog!” (to ally Roadhog eliminating an enemy)

Again, suggests he thinks positive of their relationship, indicative that he sees the two of them as partners in crime

“Don’t die on me, you big lug!” (Roadhog downed in PVE)

Worries about Roadhog when he’s hurt; uses affectionate names for him

“They got Hoggie!” (Roadhog downed in PVE)

Same as above, though this nickname is specifically cutesy/endearing compared to the previous

“Who’s gonna revive the roadkill?” (Roadhog yet to be revived in PVE)

Along with affectionate nicknames, Junkrat also uses rude nicknames to refer to Roadhog

Taken in isolation I guess this could suggest that he thinks negatively of Roadhog, but given all the other voice lines where he seems to think positively of Roadhog this is more likely a teasing/playful way of referring to Roadhog

“At least I’m not a hog.” (along with “At least I’m not a rat.” from Roadhog)

Taken in isolation, could suggest that Junkrat doesn’t like Roadhog

Could suggest a sort of competitiveness between the two of them, or possibly that the two of them bicker a lot and don’t always see eye-to-eye

Junkrat: Me mate Roadhog says there's a fetching price on your noggin. Not as high as the one on ours, mind you...

Lifeweaver: He said all that?

Junkrat: It was more like, "Gonna turn that bloke in. Worth a heap, hurrrrrrr..."

Lifeweaver: Thank you for the warning. And the convincing impression.

Junkrat talks about Roadhog to other people

Junkrat hears Roadhog talk enough that he can do a pretty good impression of him—this is potentially indicative of how close they are considering Roadhog is known to not talk often.

Junkrat thinks of Roadhog as his friend (“My mate Roadhog”)

It’s kinda unclear if Roadhog said this stuff about Lifeweaver directly to Junkrat, or if it’s just something Roadhog was saying to himself. If it’s the latter, it’s possible to interpret that Roadhog mutters things to himself & Junkrat pays attention to it. This might suggest that Junkrat isn’t so self-centered when it comes to Roadhog and remembers things that Roadhog says. (kind of a stretch of an interpretation, but hey)

Unrelated but mysteriously, Roadhog seems to speak Australian English in Junkrat’s impression of him (he says “bloke,” which isn’t used in American English). This makes me think Roadhog is supposed to speaking Australian English (which makes sense given that he’s Australian) but in the game he just. Doesn’t. for some reason.

Lifeweaver: Are you and Roadhog together?

Junkrat: Do you ever see us apart?

Lifeweaver: No. I mean, are you a couple?

Junkrat: Yes! A couple of dashing rogues! Not sure what you're missing here...

From an outsider’s perspective (Lifeweaver), Junkrat and Roadhog seem like a couple.

Junkrat and Roadhog are always together (“Do you ever see us apart?” implies they’re never apart)

Tbh there’s a lot of ways to interpret Junkrat’s last line, but I think the most straightforward interpretation is just that he’s oblivious to what Lifeweaver is asking, possibly because of the phrasing. Other possible interpretations:

He doesn’t think of himself and Roadhog as a couple and likewise is oblivious to the fact that they seem like a couple to other people.

Junkrat doesn’t know what couples are (though I think this can be disproven by the fact that he’s “giving” Roadhog relationship advice in one of the voice lines I mentioned earlier)

Junkrat isn’t interested in Roadhog and is deliberately friend-zoning him here

Junkrat and Roadhog are a couple (since he answers “yes,”), but he backpedals because it’s supposed to be a secret

Junkrat’s just messing with Lifeweaver and being intentionally obtuse (unlikely imo, he seems earnest here)

Junkrat thinks of Roadhog as a “dashing rogue”

Roadhog: Say “bacon” one more time.

Junkrat: “Bacon, one more time.”

Junkrat likes to annoy Roadhog

Junkrat isn’t scared of annoying Roadhog

Reaper: You got a problem, Junker?

Roadhog: *chuckle*

Junkrat: I don’t do problems—just solutions!

Roadhog: *laughs* Yeah!

I can’t find the audio for this interaction on the wikia, so I’m not sure what the inflection is. Seems likely that Roadhog is sarcastically agreeing with Junkrat here, but I can’t tell.

Edit: I was told that Roadhog's "Yeah" sounds genuine in-game, so this could be an indication of Roadhog actually following along with Junkrat & engaging in their partners-in-crime dynamic

Edit 2: Roadhog's quotes page indicated that only one of the three dialogue options are triggered by Reaper's line, so Roadhog's "yeah" is most likely not in response to Junkrat's potential line

Summary of this section: It seems like Junkrat thinks positively of Roadhog, thinks of him as a friend, and considers the two of them to be partners in crime. He sometimes uses affectionate pet names for Roadhog, but also uses some crass nicknames with him. There may be a sense of competitiveness between the two of them, where Junkrat thinks of himself as leader while Roadhog thinks otherwise. Junkrat occasionally uses this imagined “superior/subordinate” status playfully as a way to engage in regular friendship activities with Roadhog.

The next section will be me looking at Roadhog's OW2 voicelines. iirc he doesn't mention Junkrat as much as Junkrat mentions him, so I anticipate it'll be shorter and probably less positive lol but anyway! Thanks for reading!

Part 2: [click] Part 3: [click] Part 4: [click] Part 5: [click]

#blab #junkrat #roadhog #overwatch #overwatch 2 #ow2 #ovw #info

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