#chuck/john parallels

[soft-pine]

the thing about dean is that yes, for most of his childhood john was God to him. he was the rule setter. he held all the answers to the mysterious, hidden nature of the world. he was the only constant (even if it was inherent that within that constancy was absence). he defined the morality.

but what happens to a kid's brain when God shows up beaten and bloody in the middle of the night needing stitches from your small, shaking hands and soup scraped together and watered down and borrowed from tomorrows meals. and God's slurring his words first from pain and later from whiskey. what happens when God is crying and folded over where he sits in a rickety chair and you're standing next to him trying to hold him up and his heavy arm is across your shoulders cause he's the same height sitting as you are standing.

[scoobydoodean]

Hi, scoobydoodean! Are you of the opinion that Cas' confession parallels John's private speech to Dean before he went to take Azazel's deal which killed him. Like, they're both deals to save Dean. And they only decided to say things left unsaid about how much they loved Dean and were proud of who he was, right before they knew they were going to die. I don't know if that's a stretch, and if it's not, what does it say about Cas and Dean if it does parallel John? I don't know.

You know—I could have sworn I've mentioned that very thing before, but probably just in passing, because I can't find it in my archive. Cas and John have some interesting parallels, and I don't doubt Dean notices (and occasionally chafes) at their similarities (because their similarities tend to dig into some of Dean's biggest issues with his dad). It isn't just that Cas and John both sacrifice themselves for Dean, giving him a deathbed speech about what a good person he is (one that is touching and heartfelt but still comes with painful consequences for Dean that they don't foresee).

John and Cas have also both been known to do the following:

Ignore phone calls for weeks at a time.

Disappear without anyone knowing where they are for long periods, leaving their loved ones worrying.

Try to handle The Mission alone and ice others out of it to "protect" them.

Die leaving Dean to care for, protect, and then (if necessary) kill their sons—sons who are being pursued by powerful forces who want to manipulate and use them—sons who are not actually children.

Trade out a car for a truck, funnily enough.

John and Cas are also both soldiers, and Cas understands the soldier's mentality: The Mission comes before everything (this is what Sam and Dean ultimately clash with John over at the end of season 1). Cas has admired John's handwriting (8.08), and I think is probably a little interested in John as a model of the failed protector, though he knows Dean considers John a deadbeat (5.17). Cas has his own issues with his own father to contend with, and I think because Chuck is the absent father but not the protector father (except very specifically with Cas in a few early moments—bringing him back to life 2-3 times)... Maybe one could argue that Cas wishes god was more like John—that his absences weren't always for lack of love but were somehow mission-oriented. Chuck bringing Cas back a few times gives Cas hope that maybe his father is out there watching and caring about him and ready to help him despite his absence and silence. Even as late as season 14, Cas goes off alone to find a way to reach out to his father for help with Jack. Perhaps we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that Cas going off alone in search of help from an absent father instead of communicating with his family is part of what leads into Dean and Cas's "divorce arc". Perhaps we should consider more carefully if something underlying Dean and Cas's conflicts is how they perceive their fathers.

Maybe to an extent, quite unconsciously, Cas wants to prove that he can be absent from his family and still love and protect them from a distance... because if Cas can do that successfully, it means maybe god loves him from a distance too? Maybe he thinks it can make sense of Chuck's behavior—bringing Cas back several times but still so silent. It isn't until AU Michael tells Cas that Chuck is a writer looking at failed drafts that Cas starts to catch on—and he doesn't want to catch on, is the thing. He wants to reject Michael's narrative. Having Michael in particular (in Dean's body) tell Cas this also pits Cas and Dean's perspectives on fathers against one another—Cas's hopeful belief vs. Dean's nihilism. When Dean pleads with god on behalf of his family, he does it faithlessly because he already knows you can never count on your father to help you no matter how hard you plead and cry (1.09, 5.14, 13.01).

As for what this means for Dean and Cas? Well—I've said it before and I'll say it again—fandom could stand to calm down about the "implications" of John parallels. It's often treated like some sort of condemnation to be "paralleled" with John, but... it isn't? Sam, Dean, and Cas all have parallels with John at various points, and it doesn't make any of them bad people. It makes them messy and interesting and (for lack of a better word) human. I think Cas and Dean could have some fascinating fights along this subject and I want to see more of them. Sorry but I love it when they fight it entertains me greatly.

[entropic-saudade]

S1 Dean outside of a men’s restroom making a phone call to an absent father // S13 Dean outside of a men’s restroom praying to an absent god

“I know you had a complicated upbringing, Dean, but don’t confuse me with your dad.”

[13x02]

grabbing you and pulling you close. chuck and john are the same kind of father.

[soullessjack]

sorry for the winchesters posting so late in the game but im finally seeing it with my good ol buddies and oh my god there are so many jack parallels it almost has to be on purpose. and like yeah Tony the half-Djinn who tries to be a good monster is the most obvious parallel but holy shit. MAC from episode 6 is soo.

like. you have a quaint little hunting circle, and there’s a guy with a bad background and a “dark soul” that you allowed into your circle fully knowing that he had a “dark soul,” and posed a risk because of it. but when you saw how that darkness and violence could be useful to you, you just let it go unchecked and worsen over time and you let his need for power become extreme enough that he turns to **dark magic for it and only when he became a threat to you, did you decide he just had to die because in the exclusively hypothetical scenario where he finally turned on you, you knew he’d win.

and the thing is, you already knew he was a threat from the get go. you knew about his darkness and why he did what he did. you knew he needed help, but you didn’t know how to help him, and frankly you didn’t even try to help him because he was more useful to you as a weapon, and only when you were at the same mercy you inflicted on others with him did you finally act. and you didn’t know how to help him and frankly you didn’t even try to. you had a friend stuck in a cycle of violence, and instead of helping him, you wielded him like some kind of weapon.

**and like, I know Jack didn’t turn to dark magic for the exact same reason Mac did—Mac was an abuse survivor who wanted to stop feeling powerless and became excessively power-hungry in the process, while Jack is an all-powerful being who hates feeling powerless and also explicitly feels that not using his power for others is selfish and wrong, which in turn drives him to become power-hungry specifically for the sake of others and doing things for them: resorting to potent and unstable necromancy just to bring Mary back for Sam and Dean; drawing on + destroying his soul just to kill Michael for everyone he’s ever cared about and because he personally hates Michael, using the fullest extent of his power to excruciatingly kill Nick and Duma’s targets for Sam and Dean, becoming a living God-destroying bomb just so he can make amends for his actions, etc.

and that’s his personal cycle of violence. that’s the cycle both he and his family explicitly weaponize for their benefit.

Mac’s cycle was seeking more and more power, becoming more and more violent as a result of his past abuse and helplessness, and instead of helping him with that initial trauma like TFW sort of did, Mary’s aunt (?) and her circle of hunters fully enabled him to seek out more power and be useful to them, and when he became what they let him become, they blew up a cave with him inside. buried him, similarly to how Jack was “buried” in the Ma’lak box after the state of soullessness and Michael-blinker that Sam and Dean were both responsible for and complicit in, made him an unstoppable threat. (although to their credit, TFW does make some effort to break it by repeatedly telling Jack that he doesn’t need to be strong or helpful to be valued/loved by them, and they do make efforts to help him, but they also don’t exactly stop him from seeking/gaining power depending on the long term goal and they really only help him after he’s already suffered the ‘inevitable fate’ of the monster they created in him).

ultimately the episode ends with Lata convincing Mac to destroy his cycle, to choose peace and move on from the past instead of dwelling on resentment and becoming as angry and violent as his abusers, and Mary’s relative (i rlly don’t remember her name I’m sorry) says that she has a lot of work to do if she’s going to make it right, even if she can’t undo what she did, which i feel is a very solid parallel to Dean [and Sam] working to make amends with Jack.

I know that Dean didn’t create this alternate universe and isn’t a controlling force like Chuck, but given that he’s the narrator and blatantly speaks from his experiences as The Monster Club goes through them, I can’t help but think that all of these parallels to Jack (between Tony and Mac and even a few things with John that I’ll post about later), are on purpose. …

[anemicpopnatural]

Much to think about 🤔

[drfrankensteinvsthequeerborgs]

hmmm...in s14-15 a god tries to get Dean to embrace his anger and be a killing machine, and in The Winchesters a god tries to get John to embrace his anger and be a killing machine...and in the end that's not who either of them is

[vendettasfanfictioning]

Gutted because I am once again reminded that DEAN LOVED CAS SO FUCKING MUCH had there been no deal with the Empty and they landed in the exact same situation DEAN WOULD HAVE CONFESSED FIRST he would have said he wanted something he knew he couldn't have but at least he got to go out with a bang THAT'S what Pamela stood for during the Michael dream and if that dream, that narrative, was all about Dean's deepest desires being used against him to make him stay then what the fuck was all that subtext about IF DEAN DIDN'T LOVE CAS WHY DID HE PARALLEL JOHN AFTER MARY DIED THE FIRST TIME literally there is no fucking way.

Dean would have confessed first istg y'all, he loved Cas so fucking much it hurts and extenuating circumstances aside, he's always been chasing Cas when Cas left or—like in Rupture—let go when Cas deserved space to rethink his decisions and actions. From Leviathans to Purgatory to the Angel Tablets to the Mark of fucking Cain to Amara and all the crap with Chuck. There were many mistakes made but the fact stands that Dean loved Cas so fucking much.

[dotthings]

Despite Dean trying to distance from Benny once they’re on earth, when Benny’s in trouble, Dean’s there. The strength of a bond formed in combat. Brothers in arms. And something else comes across in their dynamic too, and while it’s not acknowledged canon, by Carver era of spn, oh you can bet that was deliberate subtext and queer coding. But there’s also this brothers-in-arms friendship they have and Benny and Dean connecting and Benny clearly knows Dean and what makes him tick.

“You and that whole friend thing, man...good to know you’re still dumb as ever.”

Cas and Benny glaring and bickering at each other with Dean in the middle going FML. Benny witnessing whatever this…thing…is between Dean and Cas—Benny noticed how close they are, and he seemingly believes Cas isn’t worth it and Dean could do better, but he starts developing a grudging respect for Cas, too. And saves Cas—which is what cements Dean being able to trust Benny. And everyone has excellent chemistry. Sorry we didn’t get a lot more of Dean-Cas-Benny in Purgatory.

Benny, thinking of survival, expresses his doubts about getting Cas through the portal because he’s an angel, not a human soul or a corrupted human soul, and Dean is resolute and absolute in his determination to save Cas and isn’t having it.

“Cas, we’re going to shove your ass through the eye of that needle if it kills all three of us.”

Benny’s drawn to Dean’s heart, to his loyalty to his friends, even though he wryly scoffs at Dean about it in the present, Benny really likes that about Dean.

VAMPIRATES.

“Our father, he was a jealous god. Kept our family together, but kept us apart from the rest of the world, always at sea. I always did what was best for the nest.” Dean and Benny are so similar, and there’s Dean, a human taught from childhood to kill monsters, seeing himself reflected in a vampire’s experiences, with a controlling father, and dedication to family. But Dean isn’t the only one Benny parallels to. It’s Cas too. Always thinking of the Heavenly host and duty to his father, also a jealous god, Cas isolated from the humans he was stationed on earth to observe, Cas loyal and obedient and dedicated.

And Benny met someone, fell in love, and it changed him, just as Cas met someone, fell in love, and it changed him. There’s even a human/nonhuman romance for Benny to sweeten the pot of parallels. And while Dean never abandons family, nevertheless, he dedicates himself to his quest to save Cas in Purgatory, delaying getting home.

Saving Cas is something Dean wants to do, that he needs to do for himself, as well as him believing Cas deserves to be saved, and his relationship with Cas in itself is a defiance of his father, just as Benny defied his father and broke with his vampire nest, and Cas defied god and the heavenly host.

Cas and Benny’s supernatural families were punitive and violent against acts of defiance. Both Benny and Cas wind up hunted by their own father/their father’s agents. While John isn’t that, there were still punishments while Dean was growing up for him deviating from his father’s orders.

“We’re real. Benny, this is real.”

Where did Cas learn the emotional realness he speaks to Dean in early S15, where did Cas learn that connections between people is the one realest thing out there? From Dean, starting from S4.

“This is my story, you gnat. It ends the way I choose. Not you.” Benny’s vampire sire sure does have controlling Chuck vibes.

And like Sam and Dean and Cas, Benny will rip up the rulebook and make his own choices, make his own story, even if he’s in a trap still.

Benny in another Cas parallel: he can’t figure out why Dean resurrected him, doesn’t think he deserves to be saved. Benny wanted to get out of Purgatory so badly but once he does, he feels he deserves to be there, while Cas refuses to leave Purgatory, believing he deserves to be there, to pay penance for the things he’s done.

[beautysurvives]

The Idealized (Cloth Mother) Mary As A Representation Of Dean’s Soul

*warning, I’m gonna use a lot of gendered terms and stereotypes, but these don’t reflect my real world way of thinking. I’ll be saying things like “divine feminine” and “feminine” in general not as material absolutes, but just as shorthand to discuss the recurring themes and use of male and female archetypes in supernatural*

having thoughts I can’t yet fully articulate connected connected to this edit

Amara representing “the divine feminine,” the Darkness to Chuck’s Light, being the thing released by removing the mark of cain— the whole mark of cain arc being triggered by Dean’s inability to kill Abaddon, but also his inability to let Sam die in s8 and his choice to save him against his will in a way that denies his autonomy and leaves them both at the mercy of an abusive parental figure (Gadreel) — the moc itself symbolizing the idea of masculinity as strength and independence.

And then Amara, the fact that, without the mark, Dean can’t kill her, even though he wants to and believes that he should. Dean’s connection with Amara being rooted in their roles as narrative foils. Amara herself being revealed to be extremely empathetic, to be acting out of grief and rejection, being very old and powerful but also young and unknowledgeable about the world. And her believing that the thing Dean needs the most is Mary — so that he can see that she’s just a person. That she’s flawed. That she’s a lot like him.

Mary coming into the world in the same year as Jack — Jack who never would’ve been conceived if Cas hadn’t freed Lucifer — if Cas hadn’t been dealing with his own feelings of physical inadequacy and powerlessness — if Cas hadn’t similarly been struggling with an overabundance of empathy, the thing that made him decide to spare Metatron, the thing that made him feel intense guilt over the times that he hurt Dean, pain over the way that Dean hurt him — and if Cas hadn’t hesitated to kill Kelly and her unborn baby even though he believed it was the right thing to do.

The soul representing empathy, kindness, the ability to feel — traits associated with femininity. How the soul, like Amara to Chuck, represents the female self. How Dean felt that he was never allowed to be a child, because he was being both a father and a mother to Sam. The way Dean — who, at his most comfortable state, is childlike — associates his memory of Mary, the feminine/maternal ideal, with his own state of childlike innocence and ignorance.

And then Jack’s birth — Crowley is the first to die, then Cas, at around the same time as Kelly— and then Mary is taken away. And this is a Mary who, in Dean’s perspective, has finally come around to performing her motherly role by protecting him and Sam. All season, Dean has been advocating for keeping Jack and Kelly alive, finding a way to save them. Cas was the one who wanted to kill them but ultimately couldn’t go through with it. Like Mary — like Kelly — he goes on a journey that leads him to empathy and faith in Jack. Leads him to see Jack as his son.

After losing these softer, idealized parental figures, Dean immediately reverts to his moc self — the kind of person he was in Hell, the kind of person he became after John died, the kind of person John encouraged him to be while hunting —

The self that preferred not having a soul — the self that preferred to not feel. This version of him believes that Mary must be dead, that Cas can’t be brought back.

Once Jack achieves these things for him, Dean’s metaphorical soul is restored. Mary is back in their lives, and for the first time she’s committed to staying —

But, like Dean, like this whole family, she is still so empathetic that it becomes a fatal flaw within the narrative. She was willing to stay in Apocalypse World, apart from her children, because those people needed her too. Dean, when the moc enabled him to ignore his soul, killed the Styne kid (an obvious Sam parallel) without hesitating — but without the mark, he risked his life to save baby Amara.

Amara, like Mary, is the part of Dean that he inherited or modeled after his mother. It’s the thing that drove Delphine to sacrifice herself in The Vessel — the thing that made Dean offer to stay and use the Hand of God himself — her warning that its power would corrupt him, her decision to use it herself because she knew she was supposed to die anyways. The reason that she needed Dean to be the one to kill her to remove the warding — she wasn’t “strong” enough to do it to herself. She wasn’t strong in the stereotypically masculine, unfeeling, reckless way that Dean is expected to be — that Sam often is, especially soulless Sam (who, interestingly, relied on Dean to be his conscious/soul)

Mary’s constant presence in the narrative — what Mary believes a good person and especially a good mother and wife should be — self sacrificial — is the reason that Dean says yes to Michael, the reason that he plans to lock himself in a box without telling anyone, the reason that Cas makes the empty deal, and part of the reason that Jack uses his powers to kill Michael even though he knows that it will cost him his soul.

So yes, it makes sense that it’s Jack who kills her. It makes sense that she’s even here with him in this scene — because she’s been trying to make up for her absence in Sam and Dean’s life, and he’s her chance. And, as she always does, she throws herself in harms way to protect them — and to protect Jack. Her final death scene has always annoyed me, because it felt so out of character and forced, but I can accept the idea that this was her doing what she was never able to do with Sam and Dean. Being there.

And why does Jack unintentionally kill her? Because she’s making him feel things, like a pesky soul. Her behavior — her actively caring about him — is making him feel afraid, weak, out of control. So he gets rid of her.

Everybody wants the cloth mother, but in this world of extreme violence that requires you to not feel and not empathize and be completely self sufficient, her presence is a hindrance. When she dies, suddenly it’s a no brainer for Dean to convince Sam to do to Jack what he wanted to do to himself all season — to lock him in a box, where he can’t hurt anyone. What Chuck ordered his sons to do to Amara. Dean has lost this symbol of his soul — like accidentally freeing Michael from the closet in his mind — being weak and letting your enemy surprise you, letting your guard down, failures that Dean always beats himself up for the way his father did with him.

Which is why Dean’s betrayal of Amara in season 15 is so so interesting to me. Lying to her is a risk to his own safety, that he knows can end badly. But it is also a test of his strength and his ability to kill the thing inside him that Mary represents — because remember, he’s angry with Amara for even bringing her back. He decides that it was meaningless, not real — like Jack’s failed attempt to resurrect Mary, empty. So trying again to kill Amara through deception and betrayal is a test of his ability to do “the right thing” no matter the personal cost. Even if it hurts. Just wanting his mother back led her to die again. Just that scene of emotional honesty and mutual understanding between himself and Amara in the s11 is the reason that any of this happened — it’s the part of the story that he blames on himself, and his weakness.

It’s not just that he’s willing to kill Jack, or willing to shoot Sam, but that, even after being told that he would die, that everyone he loved would die, he’s still willing to do it. He has to be. It’s not anger at any of these individuals that’s fueling his choice — because he does love them. It’s Mary’s death, and the symbolic death of his emotional, vulnerable, child self that, like Jack, wants to be loved and accepted and forgiven. It’s giving into the other child self — the side of him that is like Chuck, the masculine half of creation — that, like soulless Jack, or occasionally Sam or Cas, denies responsibility and looks for someone, a more powerful figure, like Mary or Amara, God, Heaven, Cas (pre 15x09) — to blame.

Doing all this for the sake of killing Chuck, but especially killing Amara along with him (which Sam was onboard for UNTIL it became clear that he and his loved ones would also die, because for him Amara’s freedom means “the monsters win” and that he and Dean would turn into monsters) — is a denial of Dean’s inner truth.

But what I can’t get over is the fact that not going through with that is what makes them miss their chance to defeat Chuck this time. Billie appears and berates them, and informs them that Jack might’ve survived — it reminds me of Rowena’s sacrifice at the top of the season, how her death led her to go to “the right place,” as the queen of hell — and how Sam was, initially, somewhat okay with the idea of Mary dying, because he knew that she was back in Heaven, at peace. That Billie just wants everyone to go where they belong (where they were originally, or where they were predestined to be) that, for many seasons, they’ve been toying with — getting close to — sealing the gates to Heaven and Hell. That the series culminates with Jack — a symbol of union, a thing that keeps the tfw family, especially Cas and Dean, together —but also a symbol of the three of them being unwilling to let each other go — disappearing. Sam and Dean going to Heaven. Cas being in the Empty, never able to see them again. Not even conscious — feeling nothing. Not existing. This coinciding with not only the AU hunters being erased from the narrative, but also everyone who has been family to them (mostly, female characters like the wayward sisters) just… out of sight out of mind

It still just makes me wonder about the way that Sam and Dean are positioned in this season, because I’ve always felt like Dean gets the short end of the stick here. And going back to the way that Sam was motivated by his fear of Chucks bad ending where the monsters/Amara win — Amara being a symbol of Mary, someone that Sam had never really gotten to know up until her return from apocalypse world, except through Dean’s memories of her. How the thing that Sam really wanted was any sort of relationship with her — something Dean had that he never got. Sam doesn’t treat Mary as a mother as much as a colleague / friend — maybe even a coparent to Jack while Dean is missing/possessed. But Sam is more at peace with her death after he gets this. For me it just connects to how Sam has always sort of viewed Dean, as sort of specter of Mary — which is both a good and bad thing, but more often than not is bad. Dean is his obligation to stay in the life, to stay with his family, his soul when he doesn’t have one — and often, the person he blames when he makes choices with world ending consequences— or choices that put innocent people at risk, like freeing Dean from the mark at the expense of Cas and Charlie, ultimately freeing the Darkness.

The fact that Dean himself says that his death is good. Like Cas, like Jack, like Mary, he either dies or happy or becomes happy in the afterlife. The fact that the whole story for Dean and Sam, could start with Mary’s deal to save John — that she is a God to them, and that Jack, who brings Cas back to life and saves Mary, becomes God — I don’t know I don’t know I don’t know.

[scoobydoodean]

Why do ppl get so upset about the john parallels? all the ones ive seen from you and others have great parallels and they’re not necessarily negative.

i thought they were very nicely done

sorry i’m just very confused about which john parallels ppl get upset about

<3 John's name is basically synonymous with Satan in this fandom but the dude isn't Palpatine. He's an important figure whose actions certainly loom over the narrative, but he wasn't a mustache-twirling villain. He loved his kids. He neglected his kids. He was an alcoholic. He was traumatized. He wanted to protect his kids. He went about protecting them in all the wrong ways because he was afraid. He was genuinely not afraid to cry despite common fanon portrayal. He was the kind of guy who told his son soccer was a waste of time (1.08) but quietly stored his trophy in a storage unit because he couldn't actually bear to throw his trophy away (3.03) . He was the kind of guy who disowned Sam but then couldn't stop swinging by Stanford to check on him (1.08, 1.20). He was stubborn and revenge blind and swallowed by grief. He spent his whole life prioritizing everything in the world over his oldest son's safety and blaming him for his own parenting failures but then turned around and died for Dean and apologized for everything. The fact that he was never some purely evil villain while doing the hurtful things he did is what makes him such a compelling narrative force long after his death and what makes it impossible for Sam and Dean to simply reject him in pure unapologetic hatred.

Sam is heavily mirrored with John in the early series, but because this is a story about breaking the cycle and not actually a story about continuing the cycle, season 1, for example, ends with Sam turning from his alignment with John's blind desperation for vengeance and standing beside Dean who wants to place their family's lives over the demon instead. John tries to get Sam to shoot him in the heart and Sam refuses because Dean begs him to stop. The story of Supernatural has familicide as a throughline—specifically, the idea that sons killing fathers and fathers killing sons and brothers killing brothers is "inevitable" and "inescapable". But the other throughline of Supernatural is that free will exists and nothing is as set in stone as cosmic beings would like to lead mortals to believe. Killing ones brother/child for the "greater good" is a fate angels and demons and fathers and gods repeatedly tell Dean he is doomed for, and Dean repeatedly thwarts the destiny to kill his brother/son because the story is actually about our characters breaking the cycle and isn't actually about them continuing it. Dean refusing to kill his brother/son for the "greater good" no matter how hard Chuck tries to push him to do so through force and threats and manipulations is what leads Chuck to snap. Chuck literally goes crazy at the end of 14.20 specifically because Dean refuses to fall into the familicide cycle.

In the same way, Cas showing shades of John's tendency to go radio silent and try to do everything on his own and sometimes neglecting the people he loves in the process? These are pitfalls that are perfectly surmountable given some self reflection and communication. He is not doomed to this.

[nobite02]

"Mirror Characters, also known as Parallel Characters in some literary circles, almost certainly share personality traits, values, similar skill sets, and possibly even goals and likely a narrative arc. They may have the same or similar background... If they have none of the same backstory at all, their similarities will be significant for coming about regardless of their environment."

The Feminine urge - The Last Dinner Party

I already did one of this song with dean. However, I thought I would do with Dean and John & Cas and Chuck as their relationship mirrors each other. It was basically impossible to find a screengrab with Cas and Chuc because they are never shot in the frame together.

[charcubed]

God now I’m actually in my feelings about something incredibly niche BUT

I’ve talked about this many times before, but Sherlock taught me how to perceive and understand subtext (and I know I’m not the only one)

some of that obviously includes the way the show is filled with endless mirrors for Sherlock and John. like when Tessa in TSoT discusses her date with the mayfly man, and it’s clearly a description of Sherlock’s feelings about his first day meeting John.

and now I’m sitting here thinking about the times Supernatural used similar languages (all the parents and children cases especially in early seasons. everything with Cain and Colette. the Ouroboros ep about Jack and TFW. all the Chuck -> John -> Dean cycles of violence as Chuck’s framework, like in widower arc. etc we all know I wrote a book). hell, The Winchesters as a show is LITERALLY all just mirroring, which is why I’ve joked it’s The Abominable Bride of SPN.

and I’m thinking about all the reasons I love Doctor Odyssey, which is largely because it is consistently coherent with its depths and how it leverages mirroring. it parallels the medical “cases” and passengers/situations on the ship to the emotions or traits of the core throuple. that’s what really makes it good and interesting for me.

and I’m just like… yeah man. I only get properly invested in media that gives my brain things to chew on, like core themes and mirroring, and Sherlock (and TJLC) is the reason for that. it built my brain cells as a teen. and thank God for that

[shallowseeker]

i wonder if theres a parallel with how dean ended up having to finish off azazel because his father failed to kill him himself and how dean failed to keep michael locked down so jack ended up killing michael.

like i know michael was also jack's enemy but i wonder if dean ever compares his failure to his dad. like he fucked up and jack (his son) had to finish the fight for him. just like how he had to finish the fight his dad started

OH SHIT. Yes!!!!

I think there's at least an off-parallel to this. Nice! Dean & John Vs. Azazel and Jack & Dean Vs. AU Michael... I like it!

///

I think too of how s15 was set up in a way where Jack became the new "Godstiel," effectively taking on Cas's "duties."

The structure went like this: Sam vs Chuck (14x20); Dean vs Death (15x18); and Cas vs... Death & The Empty (15x18).

But it's hard to put into words. It almost feels like it shoulda been Cas vs full-power Chuck. Like, perhaps going up against Chuck was Cas's "true battle," and he didn't get to fight it because he chose to go with and save Dean instead.

///

But carrying your theme a little further...

When Jack was first born, there was almost this... heavy expectation for him to be like Cas.

When Jack fails to live up to the angelic protectorship/power-control duties, Dean immediately compares Jack to Cas:

DEAN: Who cares if he didn’t do it on purpose? He did it. I mean, you didn’t see Cas smiting someone every time he got his teeth cleaned. JACK: I’m right here, you know.

And I think of it like this:

(a) Jack felt the pressure to fill Cas's Strongman shoes from the get-go.

(b) When Jack stepped in to take on the AU Michael battle, he took on "Dean's failure" to beat Michael.

(c) Finally, when Jack had to step in to vanquish the full-power Chuck, he was taking on Cas's "failed battle."

I don't think any of them are failures, exactly. After all, these battles are too big to fight alone. But it's interesting and crunch to me to frame Jack shouldering them in this way.

[t00muchheart]

As I do when I am hyperfixating on something, I have read a LOT of supernatural fanfiction in the last few months, and I get a lot of the titles I read from other peoples’ recommendations or collections on ao3, so I figured I’d share some of my favorites in case anyone else is looking for recs :)

AUs:

Spirit of the West by teen_dean

This is a shock to literally no one who follows me because I regularly bring it up, but it honestly is one of the best things I’ve ever read. The 90s horse girl AU of your dreams (or, if you haven’t dreamed of one, that you never knew you needed). The storytelling is immaculate, the symbolism rich, and it only improves on re-reading

And this, your living kiss by opal_bullets

Poet Dean AU featuring genuinely beautiful comments on language and writing and how we encounter stories and words and what they can do, and also some honestly incredible poetry

where there is darkness by quiettewandering

Lighthouse keepers AU! this one is a bit mysterious and I did scream into a pillow after finishing it. If you know the story of the Flannan Isles lighthouse keepers, it is loosely inspired by that.

Phantasma by thisisapaige

Messy Dean, my beloved. Messy, Stanford-Era Dean, my beloved. Dean breaks off from John and buys a haunted house, and things sort of escalate.

For All You Young Hockey Players Out There, Pay Attention by thursdaysfallenangel

I don’t even watch hockey, but this AU kind of made me want to start. Rivals to friends to lovers all while dealing with the homophobia in the NHL

time has come today series by teen_dean

Team Free Will brings in teen Dean Winchester to help with a case, parallel worlds come into play; every version of Dean Winchester falls in love with Castiel & all the good stuff like that

What Baking Can Do by cowlovely

Baker & Dad Dean fic and Doctor Cas? What more could you ask for?

Everyone’s a Critic by Englandwouldfall

Food Critic Cas and Chef Dean meet in a truly unfortunate way. This is worth it for Cas’s reviews alone, but also the Dean-Gabriel dynamic

FROTUS by kathscradle

A President Cas, Restaurant Owner Dean romance that was honestly just a good time

Fix-Its:

take the bones, begin anew by JustStandingHere

This was one of the first fics I read and it is sort of peak disaster™ Dean Winchester. I love a good “I fixed up a house for you and didn’t realize it meant I was in love” fic and this one is iconic

i want to do with you (what spring does with cherry trees) by sobsicles

I ugly cry every time I read this fic. It is a run of Cas and Dean’s relationship in seasons 13-15 and has Dean making a friend and it hurts but also it’s so good. Maybe my favorite Sam line of any fic comes from this fic ("If he thinks what you two do is friendship, then I must just be some guy he happens to speak to sometimes.”)

break the skin (to break the barriers) by sobsicles

Dean gets tattoos, and as he does, he tells the tattoo artist his life story. This is a post-15x19 fic told from an outside perspective and it is so well-done

Dumbassery, Denial, Doing by sobsicles

Listen tbh this list could be dominated by sobsicles and so I am showing restraint by only including three of their works. Their Dean characterization is everything to me and this fic really highlights Dean growing to understand himself better when given the freedom to

Revisions by bizarrestars

THEE what if Dean and Cas got together earlier and Chuck just wrote it out? fic.

a turn of the earth by microcomets

I love a work that explores pre-series Dean, and this one is great. Basically, think what-if later seasons Cas and pre-series Dean met (Strandlines by aeli_kindara is another good example of this premise, but in Strandlines, it is pre-series Cas as well as pre-series Dean).

psalm 40:2 by unicornpoe

On a similar note, psalm 40:2 is a great pre-series Dean, future-Cas fic. I am a bi Dean believer but this fic did sway me toward the gay Dean camp because it’s simply so good.

You Belong Among the Wildflowers by ImYourHoneyBee

Dean fixing his relationship with Jack? You got it. Dean trying to work through losing Cas? Yep. Dean getting Cas back by being stubborn? It’s there.

Who You Gonna Call? by saintedcastiel

Dean has a ghost following him around as he tries to start a life post-series, and for a while, he can’t figure out what’s happening. I love nothing more than Dean telling people he and Cas were married because he doesn’t know how else to explain and this fic delivers so hard

quilts by fleeceframe

A “Cas didn’t confess before getting taken to the Empty” fic. Soft things all around

Miscellaneous:

Fathers & Daughters by sinnabonka

On a different note, this is one of my favorite Claire fics. It looks at Claire’s relationship with Cas and the impossibility of it, and it’s so artfully done.

Bus Loop Madness by batz_in_blue

Literally just a “what if everyone lived, Jack was a toddler, and they all picked him up from school?” AU. I audibly laughed while reading this, and it’s an essential pick-me-up from the heavier fics.

More of my favorite sobsicles fics include: gorging myself on you, still can’t get full (insatiable), and he’s back (with a mind of his own), six hundred sundays (and many more), oh sooner or later it all comes down to faith, things happen (they do, they do, and they do), according to all known laws of life, and profoundly bonded (by law)

Also, honorable mentions to Ninety One Whiskey, which is such a good fic, and Make a Believer Outta Me, which is a Hocus Pocus AU that is honestly just a fun time.

[lavenderdreams205]

spn thoughts as requested

tw & spoiler warning

they should have kept the grungy filter and aesthetics from the early seasons

bring back the southern / midwest gothic vibes

dean would've listened to and loved 90's & 2000s grunge - I know that the whole "there's no good music past '79" is a key part of his personality but pre series/early seasons dean is soo nirvana / Weezer / smashing pumpkins coded

there is too much flannel in the later seasons - I miss the carhartt and leather jackets so bad

BRING BACK DEANS JEWELRY

there's so much about cas that we don't know. there's all the episodes where he just isn't there and they never tell the viewers what he's doing or where he went

on the same note, cas's personality isn't nearly as flushed out as sam's or dean's are. who is his favorite musician? what's his favorite place to travel to? why does he like the pimpmobile so much? does he actually like the trench coat or does he wear it just because it's there?

so many people characterize cas as a little guy, and while he is cute, it's important to remember that he's also an incredibly powerful eldritch horror who leads angelic armies and brands Michaels vessel just because

dean is bisexual and in love with cas - I won't take the time to list all of the reasons here, but you can definitely find those reasons somewhere

i would've loved for them to use the handprint as a physical manifestation of their bond instead of having it be just a scar that fades with time

i'm actually really ok with the way cas dies, I think it makes sense for his character and provides closure (for him, at least, not for dean)

the parallels of cas and dean meeting in a barn and then dean dying in a barn

cassie is deans first love, cas is his last

the imagery of the empty as cas's wings in 15x18

why do the subtitles spell cas as cass, its awful

there's a few lines in the early seasons that seemingly reference dean getting roofied / sa'd and are subsequently played for laughs, Jensen Ackles confirmed that dean would've done underage sw when John didn't leave them with enough money. I believe that this trauma is a major reason that dean never accepted his sexuality

the way deans alcoholism is overlooked and joked about is actually insane

having dean be completely ok after 15x18 is also insane, especially after the widower arc where the show specifically shows it's viewers how deeply dean grieves cas when he dies

deans death is literally so stupid. I get that the show is trying to make a really meta point about the characters not having plot armor anymore because chuck is gone, but dean deserved to find peace. if the events of the show had never happened and pre series dean had never gotten pre series Sam back into hunting it would've ended the exact same way - dean dead on a hunt and Sam dying from old age

dean spends as much time on earth as he did in hell, and while he would never be the same, I like to believe that if he had been allowed by the narrative to live longer he would've gotten back a little of the twinkle in his eyes that he had before hell

in 15x20 Bobby says that cas helped rebuild heaven but if he was there he would've gone to see dean. additionally, there's no way cas should have been able to escape the empty. this is such a glaringly obvious plot hole and it drives me nuts

I would've liked to see cas's wings in the show - not just the shadow of them

the only time I tolerate serious discussion of wincest is in the context of ethel cain

i am a Sam disliker - while he does have many positive qualities, I have a really hard time getting past him not looking for dean when he was in purgatory and him joking about deans alcoholism and other traumas

i like Sam the best when he's with Eileen, I think they're adorable together and I'm mad they killed her off

I am a chronic jack defender, that boy has done nothing wrong

it would be interesting to explore cas and jacks relationships with their respective genders

there's no way being forced to murder the dean clones didn't affect cas, we only saw him kill the last one but the first few he had to kill had to have been devastating

i'm really disappointed by 14x13 Lebanon, we get the scene with John and Sam but I would argue that dean has significantly more reasons to be upset with John and it's unfortunate that the episode just glossed over this - I believe a screaming match between the two would have cleared the air a bit and been at the very least cathartic for dean

i'm fairly sure that it's canonical that John sent dean away on his 17th birthday to kill lesbian ghosts. my personal hc is that John suspected that dean was bi and sent him to teach him a lesson

i saw a post on here comparing hunting culture to biker and cowboy culture and viewing those things through a queer lens and I thought it was fascinating - there's so much spn could've done if it cared about the show more than money and losing viewers

every time cas and dean beat the shit out of each other, it serves as further proof of their relationship rather than discrediting their relationship - ie demon dean and cas fighting in the library is used to parallel Cain and Collette. it could even be assumed that their love is stronger because Cain killed Collette but dean left cas alive

The purgatory love triangle was so silly

once dean worked through all of his trauma and toxic masculinity he would've been a swiftie

all of the main characters have old / vintage cars but in like season 13/14 dean sam and cas just collectively own and use this really ugly silver truck from the 2010s. its such a small detail but it absolutely ruins my viewing experience every time I see it

dean is actually really smart but most of the fandom overlooks it because Sam is characterized as the smart one. if you know anything about cars you know it takes an insane amount of brains to build a car from scratch (he did this with baby multiple times throughout the show) also he just makes an emf meter using basically nothing. if dean had been given the same opportunities he gave Sam, he would've been an engineer or something

i will always be a John hater, if this man has 0 haters, I am dead