#christdiedforoursins
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troubledontlast1 · 2 years ago
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You can put up an umbrella to keep yourself out of the rain, but you cannot stop the rain from falling. Neither can you stop God from loving you--regardless of the umbrella of sin or unbelief that you are under. #savedbygrace God is the only One who can love everything you are, despite everything you're not. #jesuslovesyou Our sin is great, but God's grace is greater. #sinnersavedbygrace God doesn't love you because you are good. God loves you because He is good. #godlovesyouunconditionally God does not love us in our goodness; God loves us in our entirety. #unconditionallove God is not waiting to love you until you have overcome your weaknesses and bad habits. He loves you today with full understanding of your struggles. #godsunconditionallove God loves you even in your darkest hours. He comforts you even in your darkest moments. He forgives you even in your darkest failures. #godsgrace Jesus died for you, knowing that you may never love Him back. That is true love. #godsgraceandmercy But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.- Romans 5:8 #godlovesyou 🔥Subscribe to my YouTube channel and podcast,👉🏾"Uplift Past Crossroads"👈🏾🔥 Befriend me on Facebook/LinkedIn = Sean Christopher Jenkins 🔥Follow👉🏾@troubledontlast 👈🏾IG/Twitter/Snap/TikTok for more🔥 Turn on Post Notification - Like - Comment - Share - Save ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖ . . Follow my other Instagram accounts: Subscribe to YouTube(in bio)👉🏾@my_daily_bible👈🏾 Subscribe to podcast(in bio)👉🏾@upliftpastcrossroads👈🏾 YouTube👉🏾@upliftwithdrj👈🏾 Fashion👉🏾@glamourmeetsgq👈🏾 . . 👤 Tag a friend who would like this page ⬇️ ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖ #forgodsolovedtheworld #bygrace #bygracethroughfaith #bygracealone #jesusdiedforoursins #savedbygracethroughfaith #christdiedforoursins #christdiedforus #jesusdiedforyou #jesusdiedforme #godsloveneverfailsyou #godslove #godsloveneverfails #godlovesme #godlovesus #godlovesusall #godlovesugly #godlovesyounomatterwhat #savedbygracealone #forgodsolovedtheworldthathegavehisonlybegottenson #forgodsoloved (at Nashville, Tennessee) https://www.instagram.com/p/Cp0Fq-kr7TX/?igshid=NGJjMDIxMWI=
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eli-kittim · 3 years ago
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In the Bible, Do Past Tenses Imply Past History?
By Author Eli Kittim 📚
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The Past Tense Versus the Conditional Tense
If we are to see things as they really are, not as we would wish them to be, we must free ourselves from ingrained religious systems of indoctrination, which always end up in some kind of a *confirmation bias* (i.e. the inclination to interpret new evidence as verification of one's preexisting presuppositions or beliefs). That’s why this way of reading and interpreting scripture is not called “exegesis” (i.e. drawing out the meaning according to the authorial intent), but rather “eisegesis” (i.e. reading into the text). One such Biblical preconception is that past tenses *always* refer to past actions that occurred in history.
Any Bible *interpretation* of past tenses that lays primary emphasis on a historical orientation is partly due to a confusion of terms and context. Insofar as the New Testament (NT) is concerned, verbal aspect theory, which is at the cutting edge of Hellenistic Greek linguistics, demonstrates that *tense-forms* do not have any temporal implications. According to Stanley E. Porter, “Idioms of the Greek New Testament” (2nd edn; Sheffield: Sheffield Academic, 1999), p. 25:
Temporal values (past, present, future) are
not established in Greek by use of the
verbal aspects (or tense-forms) alone. This
may come as a surprise to those who, like
most students of Greek, were taught at an
elementary level that certain tense-forms
automatically refer to certain times when an
action occurs.
In other words, we should never interpret Biblical tense-forms as if they’re corresponding ipso facto to past, present, or future events (i.e. past tense doesn’t equal (=) past action; present tense doesn’t equal (=) present action; future tense doesn’t equal (=) future action). To further complicate matters, there’s another tense in grammar called the "historical present,” which employs verb phrases in the present tense to refer to events that occurred in the past. In narrative accounts, the historical present is often used to evoke a dramatic effect of immediacy. It’s variously called the "historic present, the narrative present, or the dramatic present.” And there are also past tenses that refer to future events. For example, Revelation 7:4 uses the perfect-tense “those who were sealed” to refer to an event that has not happened yet. Bottom line, tenses serve a literary function and should not be confused with the time when an action takes place. Koine Greek, especially, relates aspect rather than time!
Many of the Bible’s tenses suggest various events taking place without specifying the precise timing of their occurrence. Some of these verses are in the “conditional mood.” The conditional mood is used in grammar to convey a statement or assertion whose validity is dependent on some specific condition, possibly a counterfactual one (e.g. what if?). The conditional mood may refer to a particular verb form that expresses a hypothetical state of affairs or an uncertain event that is contingent upon the independent clause. It is sometimes referred to as the "conditional tense.” The following examples will show you that the Biblical statements are conditional or contingent on the happening of an event. In other words, if Christ truly died (condition), then the TIMEFRAME (result) would be mentioned in the Biblical verses. But since the TIMING is not given, in these particular examples, the premise remains conditional upon the happening of this event.
Proper exegesis does not ask us to fall back on personal opinions, private interpretations, presuppositions, or conjectures when we encounter biblical difficulties, but that we pay close attention to the EXACT words of a verse, always asking ourselves WHEN did this happen. Does this or that particular verse tell us? For example, 1 Peter 3.18 (NRSV) is in the conditional mood. It says:
For Christ also suffered for sins once for all,
the righteous for the unrighteous, in order to
bring you to God. He was put to death in the
flesh, but made alive in the spirit.
But Does 1 Peter 3.18 tell you precisely **WHEN** Christ died? No! All of the past tenses are still in the conditional mood. The timing is still hypothetical. In other words, it’s as if the text were saying:
For Christ also suffered for sins once for all,
[at some point in history], the righteous for
the unrighteous, in order to bring you to
God. He was put to death in the flesh, but
made alive in the spirit [at some point in
human history].
That’s why it is conditional. It doesn’t specify when or at what point in time this took place. And 1 Pet. 3.18 employs the exact same word that is used in Hebrews 9.26b, namely, “once for all” (hapax). But Heb. 9.26b **DOES** tell you PRECISELY when he dies: “in the end of the world” (KJV). A concordance study of the phrase ἐπὶ συντελείᾳ τῶν αἰώνων (“the end of the age”; Dan. 12.4 LXX; Mt. 13.39-40, 49; 24.3; 28.20; Heb. 9.26b) demonstrates that this particular time period, indicated by the aforesaid phrase, could not have possibly occurred 2,000 years ago. And 1 Peter 1.20 (NJB) confirms that Christ “was revealed [initially] at the final point of time”!
——-
Proof that Passages Set in the Past Tense Can Actually Refer to Future Prophecies
Notice that we are not speculating, here. We are using the analogy of scripture, allowing the Bible to define and interpret itself. This hermeneutical method will not be questioned by any credible expositor who has a competent knowledge of exegesis!
The notion that past tenses are not necessarily referring to the past can be proven. It can be demonstrated. The undermentioned passage from Deutero-Isaiah dates from the 6th century bce (500’s). That’s about 500 years BEFORE the purported coming of Christ. But a perfunctory reading of the Book of Isaiah would suggest that Christ ALREADY DIED in the 6th century bce. Notice that Isaiah 53.3-5 (NRSV) is saturated with *past tenses*:
He was despised and rejected by others; a
man of suffering and acquainted with
infirmity; and as one from whom others hide
their faces he was despised, and we held
him of no account. Surely he has borne our
infirmities and carried our diseases; yet we
accounted him stricken, struck down by
God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for
our transgressions, crushed for our
iniquities; upon him was the punishment
that made us whole, and by his bruises we
are healed.
Judging from the PAST TENSES that are used, it appears as if Christ already died in the 6th century bce, prior to Isaiah’s written account. That’s certainly what the past tenses imply.
What do you think? Did it happen? No! Of course not! Isaiah is not writing about a past event. He’s writing about a PROPHECY. But he sets the entire prophecy in the past tense as if it already happened. That’s EXACTLY what the NT is doing. It’s writing about a prophecy, but setting it in the past tense as if it already happened. The author of Isaiah 53 composed this work 500+ years PRIOR to Paul and the NT writings. A cursory reading of Isa. 53 would suggest that Christ died in the 6th century *before Christ* (BC). We tend to read the NT in like manner. Isaiah’s text therefore *proves* that prophecy can be set in the past tense!
Similarly, 1 Peter 2.22-24 (a NT passage) seems to be modeled on Isaiah 53, and is therefore very telling in that regard:
‘He [Christ] committed no sin, and no deceit
was found in his mouth.’ When he was
abused, he did not return abuse; when he
suffered, he did not threaten; but he
entrusted himself to the one who judges
justly. He himself bore our sins in his body
on the cross, so that, free from sins, we
might live for righteousness; by his wounds
you have been healed.
It is the same with Hebrews 1.3. It sounds as if this event already occurred. But, on closer inspection, notice that the text doesn’t explicitly say that this event took place in history. It just tells you that it took place at some unspecified time period. Therefore, it would not be incorrect to read it as follows:
When he had made purification for sins, [at
some point in human history] he sat down
at the right hand of the Majesty on high.
The text just gives you the outcome. It doesn’t tell you when this event actually took place. But there are certain passages that DO tell you when. And if you run a concordance study, you’ll realize that they refer to the end of the world. I’m referring to verses like Hebrews 9.26b, 1 Peter 1.20, and all the passages that refer to the REVELATION of Jesus. Remember, if Jesus has already been manifested, he cannot be revealed again. Apokalupsis (revelation) refers to a first time disclosure. I have written extensively about these topics. They should be clear by now!
——-
The Phrase “Christ Died for Our Sins” is Almost Always Misinterpreted as Referring to a Past Event
Let’s explore another popular verse, namely, 1 Cor. 15.3, which people love to quote as proof “that Christ died for our sins”:
Χριστὸς ἀπέθανεν ὑπὲρ τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν
ἡμῶν κατὰ τὰς γραφάς.
All it’s saying is “that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures” (1 Cor. 15.3 NIV). Notice, this verse is not certifying that Christ in fact died in antiquity. Rather, it’s saying that Christ died for our sins (at some unspecified time in human history, the timeframe of which is unknown and not given) according to the prophetic scriptures, or just as the Old Testament (OT) scriptures had predicted. In fact, it doesn’t say that Christ died according to the historical accounts, but rather according to the prophetic writings (γραφάς). In short, Christ died to fulfill the scriptures. But the TIMING of this event is not specified.
Let’s look at another passage that is often taken to mean that “Christ died for the ungodly” (NRSV) 2,000 years ago. Observe what the verse says, but also what it doesn’t say. Romans 5.6 suggests that Christ “died” (ἀπέθανεν) at some unspecified time of human history by using the phrase κατὰ καιρόν, which means “at the right time” (cf. 1 Tim. 2.6), or at “the proper time,” and does not necessarily warrant a reference to history:
Ἔτι γὰρ ⸃ Χριστὸς ὄντων ἡμῶν ἀσθενῶν ἔτι
κατὰ καιρὸν ὑπὲρ ἀσεβῶν ἀπέθανεν.
So, although scripture once more reiterates that “Christ died for the ungodly”——and even though this is often uncritically assumed to refer to a past event that supposedly happened in antiquity——the text is NOT saying that this event already happened (cf. Rom. 5.8; 14.9; 1 Thess. 5.9-10). The problem is not with the text. The problem is with our *interpretation* of the text.
Similarly, in 2 Pet. 1.16–21, the eyewitness testimony of Jesus’ transfiguration in vv. 16-18 is not historical but rather a vision of the future. That’s why verse 19 concludes: “So we have the prophetic message more fully confirmed.” The same goes for the apocalyptic passage in 1 Pet. 1.10-11 (see my article “First Peter 1.10-11 Suggests An Eschatological Soteriology”: https://eli-kittim.tumblr.com/post/184378109027/by-author-eli-kittim-concerning-this-salvation).
Therefore, the church’s dogma that Jesus died in Antiquity appears to be a proof-text fallacy that is out of touch with the *teaching* of the epistles. Case in point, there are numerous passages in the epistles that place the timeline of Jesus’ life (i.e., his birth, death, and resurrection) in *eschatological* categories (e.g., 2 Thess. 2.1-3; Heb. 1.1-2; 9.26b; 1 Pet. 1.10-11, 20; Rev. 12.5; 19.10d). For example, 1 Cor. 15.22 puts Christ’s resurrection within an eschatological timetable.
——-
Conclusion
If the canonical context demands that we coalesce the different Biblical texts as if we’re reading a single Book, then the overall “prophetic” message of Revelation must certainly play a significant exegetical role. Accordingly, the Book of Revelation places not only the timeline (12.5) but also the testimony to Jesus (19.10d) in “prophetic” categories.
The *apocalyptic theology* of the NT epistles is multiply attested in the OT canon, which confirms the earthy, *end-time Messiah* of the epistolary literature (cf. Job 19.25; Isa. 2.19; Dan. 12.1-2; Zeph. 1.7-9, 15-18; Zech. 12.9-10)!
A revelation by default means “a first-time” occurrence. In other words, it’s an event that is happening for the very first time. By definition, a “revelation” is never disclosed twice. If we examine the NT verses, which mention the future revelation of Christ, we will find that they are not referring to a second coming, a coming back, or a return, as is commonly thought, but rather to an initial appearance (see e.g. 1 Cor. 1.7; 16.22; 1 Thess. 2.19; 4.15; 2 Thess. 1.10; 2.1; Heb. 10.37; Jas. 5.7; 1 Pet. 1.7; 2 Pet. 1.16; 3.4; 1 Jn 2.28; Rev. 2.16; 22.20). See my article “Why does the New Testament Refer to Christ’s Future Coming as a ‘Revelation’?”: https://eli-kittim.tumblr.com/post/187927555567/why-does-the-new-testament-refer-to-christs
Due to time constraints, it is beyond the scope of this paper to illustrate either the “unhistorical” nature of the gospel genre or the scant external evidence for the historicity of Jesus. Suffice it to say that the gospels appear to be written beforehand (or before the fact) through a kind of foreknowledge or prognósis (προγνώσει; cf. Acts 2.22—23; 10.40—41; Rom. 1.2). They are conveyed from a theological angle by way of a *proleptic narrative,* a means of *biographizing the eschaton* as if presently accomplished. For further details, see my article, “8 Theses or Disputations on Modern Christianity’s View of the Bible”: https://eli-kittim.tumblr.com/post/638877875512262656/8-theses-or-disputations-on-modern-christianitys
All in all, this paper has demonstrated that Biblical past tenses do not necessarily imply past history. In fact, it can be shown from various passages (e.g. Isaiah 53.3-5) that prophecies can also be set in the past tense!
——-
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andrewbeha · 5 years ago
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#godslove #christdiedforoursins #share #jesuslovesyou #jesussaves #instapic #picoftheday #wordsofwisdom #godsolovedtheworld #godsolovedtheworldhegavehisonlybegottensonwhoeverbelievesinhimwillnotperishbuthaveeverlastinglife #eternallove #eternallifewithjesus #eternallife #spring2020 #goodfriday (at Edmonton, Alberta) https://www.instagram.com/p/B-yj6RuBMni/?igshid=hc776vtj77fb
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divineconnection77 · 4 years ago
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A scripture that clearly shows that Christ love for us is a concentrate ...It's so intense and undeniable ...👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:7-8 Not that we were too good or too holy or too truthful but he loved us when we hid ourselves deep down in sin and shame.... Your soul needs a soul mate like Jesus ....💌❤️❤️❤️❤️ #bibleverse #biblequotes #daily #quotes #quotestagram #jesusquotes #soulfilled #undeniable #intenselove #christ #christdiedforoursins #hesearchedforme #hefoundme #hislove #ireckon #romans5 #readbible #scriptures #openheart #saturdaymorning #saturdayvibes #haveafabulousday #praisehim #loveyoujesus #goodnoon #peace (at India) https://www.instagram.com/p/CCxkXGvDjV2/?igshid=t3k1kjvhev2u
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holyisjesus · 7 years ago
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#repost from @ephesians_2.8 - 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️ . SWIPE ⬅️⬅️⬅️⬅️⬅️⬅️⬅️ . . . #CHRISTDIEDFOROURSINS #CHRISTGlorified #JESUS #JesusChrist #God #Gospel #TheGospel #Salvation #EternalLife #Faith #Prophecy #SavedByGrace #BibleProphecy #Harpazo #BlessedHope #RaptureReady #Israel #Daniels70thWeek #Jesusiscomingquickly #Revelation #Bible #Bibleverse #HolyBible #discernment #Repent - #regrann
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livingtheredwords · 5 years ago
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Repost @ephesians_2.8 by @media.repost: 🔥🔥🔥 The expression of their faces bears witness against them, And they display their sin like Sodom; They do not even conceal it. Woe to them! For they have brought evil on themselves. — Isaiah 3:9 🔥🔥🔥 . . . . . . . #CHRISTDIEDFOROURSINS #CHRISTCrucified #CHRISTGlorified #CHRISTAlone #TheGospel #Salvation #EternalLife #SavedByGraceThruFaith #PreachTheWord #ALLOurHeartsAreWicked #NONEAreGood #WretchedSinners #NOWorksBasedSalvation #DontDieInUnbelief #CantSaveYaself #JESUSisComingQuickly #BlessedHope #Repent #Believe https://www.instagram.com/p/Bzf_iIiJc15/?igshid=s1c0man9s2lw
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thefaithfilledbeliever · 5 years ago
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Reposted from @veriteetfeu - THIS!!!!!! 🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾 “And the Lord said: “Because this people draw near with their mouth and honor me with their lips, while their hearts are far from me, and their fear of me is a commandment taught by men,” Isaiah 29:13; Matthew 15:8-9; Mark 7:6-7 Posted @withrepost • @ephesians_2.8 🔥🔥🔥 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.” Romans‬ ‭1:18, 22, 28, 32‬ 🔥🔥🔥 via @justin.hoke FB @izzyfolau . . . . . . . #CHRISTDIEDFOROURSINS #CHRISTCrucified #CHRISTGlorified #CHRISTAlone #TheGospel #Salvation #EternalLife #SavedByGraceThruFaith #PreachTheWord #ALLOurHeartsAreWicked #NONEAreGood #WretchedSinners #NOWorksBasedSalvation #DontDieInUnbelief #CantSaveYaself #JESUSisComingQuickly #BlessedHope #GetOffMyLawn #Repent #Believe remnantarise - #regrann https://www.instagram.com/p/Bx-n9RKJF3P/?igshid=148znm9pm7ajh
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tdowning79 · 6 years ago
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#Christdiedforoursins https://www.instagram.com/tdowning79/p/BwUaWlIHaAc/?utm_source=ig_tumblr_share&igshid=1c1bs9oa2fpeg
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byrdtalk101 · 6 years ago
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4/03/33AD 9:00am - 3:00pm Jesus Christ was crucified So today I'm paying my respects to our father.🙏 ·Byrdtalk101· #crucified#jewishcalendar#jesuschrist#romans#death#christdiedforoursins#nazareth#heaven#knowledge#higherpower#authorsofinstagram https://www.instagram.com/p/BvzGdQ4lFks/?utm_source=ig_tumblr_share&igshid=1vmy9xqjme63l
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troubledontlast1 · 2 years ago
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Jesus Christ knows the worst about you. Nonetheless, He is the One who loves you the most. #savedbygrace God is the only One who can love everything you are, despite everything you're not. #jesuslovesyou Our sin is great, but God's grace is greater. #sinnersavedbygrace God doesn't love you because you are good. God loves you because He is good. #godlovesyouunconditionally God does not love us in our goodness; God loves us in our entirety. #unconditionallove God is not waiting to love you until you have overcome your weaknesses and bad habits. He loves you today with full understanding of your struggles. #godsunconditionallove God loves you even in your darkest hours. He comforts you even in your darkest moments. He forgives you even in your darkest failures. #godsgrace Jesus died for you, knowing that you may never love Him back. That is true love. #godsgraceandmercy But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.- Romans 5:8 #godlovesyou 🔥Subscribe to my YouTube channel and podcast,👉🏾"Uplift Past Crossroads"👈🏾🔥 Befriend me on Facebook/LinkedIn = Sean Christopher Jenkins 🔥Follow👉🏾@troubledontlast 👈🏾IG/Twitter/Snap/TikTok for more🔥 Turn on Post Notification - Like - Comment - Share - Save ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖ . . Follow my other Instagram accounts: Subscribe to YouTube(in bio)👉🏾@my_daily_bible👈🏾 Subscribe to podcast(in bio)👉🏾@upliftpastcrossroads👈🏾 YouTube👉🏾@upliftwithdrj👈🏾 Fashion👉🏾@glamourmeetsgq👈🏾 . . 👤 Tag a friend who would like this page ⬇️ ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖ #forgodsolovedtheworld #bygrace #bygracethroughfaith #bygracealone #savedbyfaith #jesusdiedforoursins #savedbygracethroughfaith #christdiedforoursins #christdiedforus #jesusdiedforyou #jesusdiedforme #godsloveneverfailsyou #godslove #godsloveneverfails #godlovesme #godlovesus #godlovesusall #godlovesugly #godlovesyounomatterwhat #savedbygracealone #forgodsolovedtheworldthathegavehisonlybegottenson (at Nashville, Tennessee) https://www.instagram.com/p/CltpcHFLq94/?igshid=NGJjMDIxMWI=
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delicatehologramballoon · 4 years ago
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#GoodFriday #ChristDiedForOurSins #Gifs
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ivervean · 7 years ago
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May we be found in Him when death comes upon us. #Repost @ephesians_2.8 (@get_repost) ・・・ TODAY IS THE DAY OF SALVATION 🙏☝️ . . . #CHRISTDIEDFOROURSINS #JESUS #JesusChrist #God #Gospel #TheGospel #Salvation #EternalLife #Faith #Prophecy #SavedByGrace #BibleProphecy #Harpazo #BlessedHope #RaptureReady #Israel #Daniels70thWeek #Jesusiscomingquickly #Revelation #Bible #Bibleverse #HolyBible #discernment #Repent #texas #bw #sutherlandsprings
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mskarkoma-blog · 7 years ago
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TGIF
Give thanks to the LORD, for HE is good; His LOVE endures forEVER. -1Chronicles 16:34
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mcdaniel1967 · 7 years ago
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Savior of the WORLD!!!!!!!! That's you, me, and everyone around us. Christ died to save us from our sins, to move us closer to our Father. This is such a comfort, simply knowing that Christ took my sins to the cross with Him. It doesn't mean I'll live a perfect life. Doesn't mean that, at all. It means that my sins, and your sins, have been forgiven. Even the sins you're committing this morning, they are forgiven. God's love runs that deep. So deep that He loves you in the midst of your sins, and yearns for a relationship with you, His child. Christ is your Savior, my Savior. He is our bridge to the Father. #godslove #christdiedforoursins #heismysavior #savioroftheworld #devotional #god #bible
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holyisjesus · 7 years ago
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#repost from @ephesians_2.8 - Pastor Frank Pomeroy: “CHRIST is the One thats gonna be lifted up.” 🙏🙏🙏 (Ps. Pomeroy & his wife lost their 14yo daughter on Sunday) “Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.” Proverbs 3:5 . . . #CHRISTDIEDFOROURSINS #JESUS #JesusChrist #God #Gospel #TheGospel #Salvation #EternalLife #Faith #Prophecy #SavedByGrace #BibleProphecy #Harpazo #BlessedHope #RaptureReady #Israel #Daniels70thWeek #Jesusiscomingquickly #Revelation #Bible #Bibleverse #HolyBible #discernment #Repent - #regrann
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marsmdl · 8 years ago
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#christdiedforoursins keep in mind (at Scheidegg)
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