#childism

[elhopper1sm]

Unpopular opinion but the reason being a teenager sucks is less to do with hormones and social cliques and more to do with the fact adults fucking hate teenagers. The fact that adults expect teenagers to be able to take on adult responsibilities yet don't deserve rights of an adult. They don't see teenagers as human beings and they aren't prepared to see kids with their own formed identities and humanity. Teenagers are so sexualized and seen as needing to take on more and more adult responsibilities. Yet when they want rights and humanity they are denied. The years your brain spends wanting nothing more than to form an identity are being taken away from you. Teenagers are essentially being kicked out of social spaces unless they have an extra 40 dollars lying around anytime they want to go out. Teenagers being kicked out of the mall just for existing or groomed into the school to prison pipeline. And now creating legislation to keep them off the Internet. Our society hates teenagers. And does everything we can to hurt them. The fact that anyone makes it out of their teenage years without trauma is a fucking miracle frankly.

[apricotmayonaise]

"the fact that i'm at risk of seeing a 14 year old's opinion at any time of day is a human rights violation!"

i don't know man, i think the real human rights violation is the fact that teenagers are taxed from their jobs yet unable to vote (taxation without representation), the fact that we're allowed to be assaulted under the guise of 'discipline', the fact that we get paid less than adults at the same job for the same amount of hours, we're allowed to have our bathroom access limited at school, not allowed to leave So Many Situations, have faced mistreatment and oppression historically for hundreds of years, the literal existence of troubled teen camps, etc etc etc i could go on

but yeah ok sure the high schooler who disagrees with you about ship discourse is the oppressor

[heather-chandlers-weirder-cousin]

okay, you know what? Running away shouldn’t be a crime. It shouldn’t be dangerous, either. Any kid should be able to leave their parents if they want, for any reason. No I’m not kidding.

“But Rue, where will these kids stay? Do you want them on the streets?”

of course not. In an ideal world, a kids would have multiple adults other than their parents they could look to for care, but I recognize that that will never be a reality for every single child. So: youth shelters, if they have nowhere else to go. There should be clean, warm shelters where anyone under 18 can stay for as long as they need, no questions asked. (And of course shelters that aren’t just for kids, but we’re talking about youth rights right now)

“But Rue,” I hear you say, “what if some moody teenager runs away after an argument?”

First of all, I’d rather a thousand moody teenagers run away than one abused child be trapped. Second, so what if one does? A kid needs time away from their parents, so they leave. The vast majority of them will get some time to cool down and then go back home, and if they don’t want to go back, period? Then nine times out of ten, they have a good reason. (Because yes, as hard as it is for you to believe, kids are humans who have common sense.)

“Okay, but what about the one time out of ten the kid doesn’t have a good reason?”

Then the kid doesn’t have a good reason. It doesn’t change anything. If someone wants to break up with their partner because of something stupid, you wouldn’t say they legally shouldn’t be able to. (And if you would, then you’re just a bad person.) No one should have to be in a relationship, romantic or otherwise, that they don’t want to be in.

[aronarchy]

Why we don’t like it when children hit us back

To all the children who have ever been told to “respect” someone that hated them.

March 21, 2023

Even those of us that are disturbed by the thought of how widespread corporal punishment still is in all ranks of society are uncomfortable at the idea of a child defending themself using violence against their oppressors and abusers. A child who hits back proves that the adults “were right all along,” that their violence was justified. Even as they would cheer an adult victim for defending themself fiercely.

Even those “child rights advocates” imagine the right child victim as one who takes it without ever stopping to love “its” owners. Tear-stained and afraid, the child is too innocent to be hit in a guilt-free manner. No one likes to imagine the Brat as Victim—the child who does, according to adultist logic, deserve being hit, because they follow their desires, because they walk the world with their head high, because they talk back, because they are loud, because they are unapologetically here, and resistant to being cast in the role of guest of a world that is just not made for them.

If we are against corporal punishment, the brat is our gotcha, the proof that it is actually not that much of an injustice. The brat unsettles us, so much that the “bad seed” is a stock character in horror, a genre that is much permeated by the adult gaze (defined as “the way children are viewed, represented and portrayed by adults; and finally society’s conception of children and the way this is perpetuated within institutions, and inherent in all interactions with children”), where the adult fear for the subversion of the structures that keep children under control is very much represented.

It might be very well true that the Brat has something unnatural and sinister about them in this world, as they are at constant war with everything that has ever been created, since everything that has been created has been built with the purpose of subjugating them. This is why it feels unnatural to watch a child hitting back instead of cowering. We feel like it’s not right. We feel like history is staring back at us, and all the horror we felt at any rebel and wayward child who has ever lived, we are feeling right now for that reject of the construct of “childhood innocence.” The child who hits back is at such clash with our construction of childhood because we defined violence in all of its forms as the province of the adult, especially the adult in authority.

The adult has an explicit sanction by the state to do violence to the child, while the child has both a social and legal prohibition to even think of defending themself with their fists. Legislation such as “parent-child tort immunity” makes this clear. The adult’s designed place is as the one who hits, and has a right and even an encouragement to do so, the one who acts, as the person. The child’s designed place is as the one who gets hit, and has an obligation to accept that, as the one who suffers acts, as the object. When a child forcibly breaks out of their place, they are reversing the supposed “natural order” in a radical way.

This is why, for the youth liberationist, there should be nothing more beautiful to witness that the child who snaps. We have an unique horror for parricide, and a terrible indifference at the 450 children murdered every year by their parents in just the USA, without even mentioning all the indirect suicides caused by parental abuse. As a Psychology Today article about so-called “parricide” puts it:

Unlike adults who kill their parents, teenagers become parricide offenders when conditions in the home are intolerable but their alternatives are limited. Unlike adults, kids cannot simply leave. The law has made it a crime for young people to run away. Juveniles who commit parricide usually do consider running away, but many do not know any place where they can seek refuge. Those who do run are generally picked up and returned home, or go back on their own: Surviving on the streets is hardly a realistic alternative for youths with meager financial resources, limited education, and few skills.

By far, the severely abused child is the most frequently encountered type of offender. According to Paul Mones, a Los Angeles attorney who specializes in defending adolescent parricide offenders, more than 90 percent have been abused by their parents. In-depth portraits of such youths have frequently shown that they killed because they could no longer tolerate conditions at home. These children were psychologically abused by one or both parents and often suffered physical, sexual, and verbal abuse as well—and witnessed it given to others in the household. They did not typically have histories of severe mental illness or of serious and extensive delinquent behavior. They were not criminally sophisticated. For them, the killings represented an act of desperation—the only way out of a family situation they could no longer endure.

- Heide, Why Kids Kill Parents, 1992.

Despite these being the most frequent conditions of “parricide,” it still brings unique disgust to think about it for most people. The sympathy extended to murdering parents is never extended even to the most desperate child, who chose to kill to not be killed. They chose to stop enduring silently, and that was their greatest crime; that is the crime of the child who hits back. Hell, children aren’t even supposed to talk back. They are not supposed to be anything but grateful for the miserable pieces of space that adults carve out in a world hostile to children for them to live following adult rules. It isn’t rare for children to notice the adult monopoly on violence and force when they interact with figures like teachers, and the way they use words like “respect.” In fact, this social dynamic has been noticed quite often:

Sometimes people use “respect” to mean “treating someone like a person” and sometimes they use “respect” to mean “treating someone like an authority” and sometimes people who are used to being treated like an authority say “if you won’t respect me I won’t respect you” and they mean “if you won’t treat me like an authority I won’t treat you like a person” and they think they’re being fair but they aren’t, and it’s not okay.

(https://soycrates.tumblr.com/post/115633137923/stimmyabby-sometimes-people-use-respect-to-mean)

But it has received almost no condemnation in the public eye. No voices have raised to contrast the adult monopoly on violence towards child bodies and child minds. No voices have raised to praise the child who hits back. Because they do deserve praise. Because the child who sets their foot down and says this belongs to me, even when it’s something like their own body that they are claiming, is committing one of the most serious crimes against adult society, who wants them dispossessed.

Sources:

“The Adult Gaze: a tool of control and oppression,” https://livingwithoutschool.com/2021/07/29/the-adult-gaze-a-tool-of-control-and-oppression

“Filicide,” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filicide

[aftonsparv-bugzz]

ilove you, young people. ilove you if youre 10, if youre 9, 11, 12, 13, 15, 14, any age under 18. youdo not have to apologise for your age. youdo not have to apologise for simply existing. you deserve the rights anyone over 18 has, and im sorry youdont have that freedom. im sorry for all children who suffer from their lack of rights. young people, dont apologise for your actions. youhave the right to be "weird". the right to be "abnormal". the right to go through "phases". youhave the right to speak up against child abuse. against hitting, against spanking, against adults touching you without your consent, against the hatred for young people, against the disbelief of young people, against all forms of discrimination youve suffered from. youhave the right to exist. nobody has the right to bully you for your age, so youshouldnt beat yourself up for your age. young people, please know im listening to your struggles. no matter how young, your struggles arent "unimportant". please know you are loved, young people. you matter.

[ihhfhonao3]

Absolutely love watching the evolution of a “cringe content” YouTuber (as in, someone who does “commentary” on “cringe”) go from shitting on gen z to shitting on gen a.

All the comments are the same. Always. “As a part of this generation, I’m sorry for what we’ve done,” “as someone who is gen _, we do not claim them,” “as someone who is (age), I’m sorry for what we have done”

STOP. STOP IT RIGHT NOW. DON’T BE SORRY JUST BECAUSE OF YOUR AGE. DON’T LET PEOPLE CONVINCE YOU THAT YOU’RE WORTH LESS BECAUSE OF WHEN YOU WERE BORN. YOU’RE BEING INDOCTRINATED. AND IT WILL NOT END IF YOU PARTAKE IN IT.

Why does it never end. Why does nobody ever learn that your age is not always an indicator of who you are as a person. Why is it so normal to beat down on literal children. What did they ever do wrong

[moiramaria]

A World where children can with no worries set their boundaries,in front of parents who truly love them, a world where children would never have to be made uncomfortable either by being touched or shamed for their body, a world where could have friends over, a world where a child never needs to fear waking up, a world where a child can roam in a clean environment that they themselves help on maintaining, a world of peace, love and independence.

[tekra-brings-the-rain]

I’ve been looking at the BITE model of control and noticed some similarities to adultism/patriarchal power structures.

I’m not saying that schools/nuclear families/etc are necessarily cults, but rather that cult-like methods are used in enforcing adultist power structures.

Although many items in this list could apply depending on the circumstances, I highlighted in green the ones that seemed most relevant.

[nothing0fnothing]

I'll never understand how hitting an adult who deserves it is assault but if you do it to a six year old suddenly the law gets vague.

Sure the smallest, weakest and most vulnerable demographic of people in the country should have more legal protections not fewer.

[ninelivesastrology]

"Respect your elders" is just a manipulative phrase to control young adults and children and the reality of it is that the older an abuser is, the more practice they've had at hiding their abusive ways and manipulating people, but yeah whatever sure, do whatever that old person tells you, don't think for yourself

[1mnobodywhoareyou]

let's kill the idea that someone's opinion, knowledge, or lived experience is more or less valuable based on how old they are, yeah?

[elhopper1sm]

Even if Minimum wage jobs were just for teenagers that wouldn't justify such low wages. Call me crazy but if a child can work like an adult and puts in the amount of effort and responsibility of an adult and is expected to work as intensely as an adult would. They should get paid like an adult actually. It's so weird how in this country children are expected to face the burdens of adulthood and be ok with having none of the rights of adulthood.

[aloeverawrites]

We need to change how we treat people who require care as a society. There’s this “I know better then you and I’m going to force what I think is best onto this situation” attitude coming from people in a place of authority towards the people they’re supposed to care about.

There’s this paternalistic attitude towards the people they have power over, thinking like they don’t know what they want for their own lives. Like they’re just emotional and a bit stupid and their opinions on their own care is an inconvenience to those who know what they’re really doing.

I’m mostly taking about people who are meant to help disabled people like therapists, doctors and insurance providers but I’m also thinking about people meant to help children like teachers, parents etc.

Even the term “paternalistic” has this inherent sense of dehumanisation and control and it comes from a term for parent. “relating to or characterized by the restriction of the freedom and responsibilities of subordinates or dependants in their supposed interest”.

We need to have equal respect for people who are going to be primarily affected by the industries to help them as we have for the people working in these industries. So many things, forced treatment and traumatic psychiatric incarceration, Aba therapy and trauma from schools, stems from this paternalistic view and if we can address that we make so much progress on all of these issues.

[heather-chandlers-weirder-cousin]

“Kids don’t need the same rights as adults, their brains aren’t as sophisticated”

hm. Hm. Gee. Gee bud, it almost seems like you maybe, I don’t know, stumbled into one of the biggest historical justifications for oppression that we know of. I don’t know, that just sounds sort of familiar. Gee.

[aronarchy]

https://twitter.com/deathpigeon/status/1630097242442047488

[image ID:

When people try to raise the age of majority they’re doing so because they understand that children lack power in society and they’re trying to increase how many lack power and increase the concentration of power.

If someone tells you that 25 is the start of adulthood they’re saying that they think that too many people have autonomy, choice, and freedom and they want to take that away from them.

If someone tells you that neurodivergence means you stay a child longer than neurotypicals they’re telling you that they think that more neurotypicals deserve autonomy, choice, and liberty than neurodivergents.

When someone says these things, listen to them and understand it as the horrifying statement that it is.

/end image ID]

[angel-hawthorne]

No, you're seeing the consequences of adults actively choosing to hit children. Every damn time someone bitches and moans about people not being "disciplined", they're quick to blame those who don’t spank for a laundry list of societal ills. Their genius idea is to hit kids even more instead of addressing the root problems. A lot of these youngsters have received a "good ol fashioned beating" once or more than that, and it still didn't do anything.

"I'm not saying you should abuse [children], but..." stop right there, that's exactly what you're suggesting. What exactly do you mean by proper discipline? Or as this person ever so wonderfully puts it "good ol slap on the wrist"? Ah, it's occasionally hitting the young when they say or do things that offends your fragile sensibilities. Adults in positions of power often get away with pulling all manner of fuckshit stunts under the guise of “discipline”. At this point, y'all sound no different from the domineering religious men who think hitting their wives will make them behave aka "Christian Domestic Discipline". Y'all didn't turn out fine at all. Just grew up to be violent bullies and/or enablers.

You hit them once, and it makes you, the adult, feel powerful. Getting that temporary feel-good rush of being in control. That's all it ever does - grant temporary compliance and relief. What will you do then if that one time with the initial amount of physical force doesn't work? Amp up the dosage (pain intensity) until you achieve that same feel-good high? If that keeps up, then these consequences will result: child goes no contact in the future, end up with a # of mental health issues, the child dies from their injuries (or removed from custody if they survive), and the caregiver gets slapped with legal repercussions. No pun intended. In extreme cases, the child will kill their parents/guardians for their own safety when there's no other alternatives.

Funny how it’s only the adults who care about splitting hairs over differences. A child’s brain doesn’t know, nor does it give a shit about “differences” you adults arbitrate. Their brains don’t stop to think “it’s only a smacking, so turn off your fight/flight/fawn/freeze response and halt the cortisol production”.

"Let me tell you, we only did it once." I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but your sample size of 1 anecdote does not trump decades worth of empirical evidence. Correlation doesn't imply causation. Plenty of children got that "one time deal", and they learned to repeat the same behaviors without getting caught. Last time I checked, discipline isn't something you DO to people. Just because you were raised to believe that assault is okay, doesn't mean others feel the same way. I'd recommend looking up survivorship bias and appeal to tradition fallacy.

This non-parent thanks you for coming to my Parenting Opinion Ted Talk.