#characterization and canon

[s-aint-elmo]

part 2 of my pining falin agenda aka I STAND WITH MARCILLE THAT DRESS WAS CUNT

part 1

(ID in alt text)

[undertalethingems]

How do you think Sans reacts to Papyrus’s death during the runs?

If you mean in the base game, uh... we kinda already know? If Papyrus is killed, Sans doesn't show up again until the final corridor, where he'll ask "if you have some sort of special power, isn't it your responsibility to do the right thing?"

If you answer yes (that you do have that responsibility), then he responds, without eyelights or sound font, "Then why'd you kill my brother?"

And if you answer no (you aren't responsible), you get "well, that's your viewpoint. i won't judge you for it.... You dirty brother killer."

There's also the line of description you get if you go on to have a concert with Shyren after killing Papyrus: "A hooded figure watches the commotion from afar." It replaces the line that mentions Sans selling toilet paper tickets to your concert, and of course, of all the characters with hoods in the game, he's the one who would be most concerned with tracking your actions after killing Papyrus. So, it makes the most sense to infer that this hooded figure is Sans.

So his reactions, to me at least, suggest that not only is he heartbroken, he's furious with you. But Sans isn't one for direct confrontations and shouting like Undyne is, so he watches, and I think he still tries to understand why you'd do something so horrible. But that doesn't stop him from being angry because there's no excuse for killing his brother, but sparing other monsters, that he can fathom.

I'm personally not a fan of depictions of Sans sobbing over Papyrus' dusty scarf--he just doesn't strike me as a guy whose first reaction is to cry. For my understanding of him, it makes more sense for him to go numb, initially, then save his anger for his parting shot in the last corridor. No matter what you answer, Sans gets the last word in, and it's always to remind you that you did not have to kill his brother.

So uh, yeah. that's what I think.

[moomeecore]

thinkging about chaos demon god things

[feralforbeanix]

Manfred Von Karma did not burn Phoenix's letters to Miles.

Like, I'm not even saying this to defend Manfred's character (though the fanbase does get a little crazy with what he actually did and didn't do) I'm saying this because that's not canon. I'm not sure it was even possible in canon.

Phoenix didn't write letters to Germany. He didn't know Miles was in Germany, let alone Von Karma's address. He didn't even know who Von Karma was until Edgeworth told him about Manfred in Turnabout Goodbyes.

In the game canon, Miles just stopped showing up to school one day. All Phoenix seemed to know was that he transferred schools suddenly. He didn't know why or where to. Remember, Phoenix didn't even hear about DL-6 until Turnabout Sisters when Maya mentioned her family's involvement.

Even in the anime canon (I haven't watched the anime in a while so I might be off about this) where Phoenix and Miles get a chance to properly say goodbye, Phoenix still doesn't have a direct means of contacting him. His best way of doing so was dedicating a song through the radio using Signal Samurai codenames and hoping Miles would hear it.

Phoenix mentions trying to contact him several times when explaining their relationship to Maya, but this was after finding out Miles was this "Demon Attorney". Miles would have to be at least 20 at this point in time, living back in California with at least a few trials under his belt. With how young he reached success, it's not impossible Miles was living on his own at the time. Even if he wasn't, I doubt Manfred was going through this grown adult's mail.

No, what the game seems to be implying is that Miles ignored Phoenix. (Maya even says, "I guess he didn't want to hear from his old friends.") And I don't think this was out of hatred or anything, I think Miles just wanted to forget his past entirely because even the good memories of his childhood would be bittersweet at best.

And to be honest that makes it even more tragic to me. Why do we need Manfred to intercept their connection when Miles' trauma and guilt complex is already doing that?

I like to think Miles knew Phoenix would be asking questions if he ever responded to those initial attempts at contact. Questions he of course doesn't want to answer because they'd at best open old wounds or at worst risk his childhood friend finding out he might have committed patricide.

I also like to think he knew Phoenix of all people would stubbornly try to find the answers Miles wouldn't willingly give because he literally mentions Phoenix always being "single minded in his work" and "always seeing things through to the end". If anyone was going to press and bring those uncomfortable and painful memories out in the open for the sake of "helping him", it would be Phoenix Wright.

Why do we need Manfred to take away all that complexity and tragedy? That is such a waste!

[mroddmod]

little scrapped comic bc it felt a bit ooc to me in hindsight

[khattikeri]

my favorite part of the jin guangyao & nie huaisang dynamic that seemingly every fic ignores is that jin guangyao genuinely thought of nie huaisang as incompetent and annoyingly whiny. he didn't realize at ALL until the very end that he was being intentionally played.

he might’ve recognized that huaisang has potential when he actually puts his mind to things. but jin guangyao honestly believed across two decades that huaisang at most was rich, pampered, and pathetically ill-prepared.

it came as a nasty, hysterical shock to jin guangyao that the little brother of the man he killed had actually 1) figured out at any point what he did 2) kept his bitter vicious rage inside and secretly wished him dead 3) brought that to fruition with a skillful mix of planning, improv, and making others do the dirty work of publicly exposing everything for him.

[aroaceleovaldez]

I was reading a post about CoTG and I realized: Rick has seemingly started to write every character pairing with the exact same dynamic, and he's not good at writing that dynamic and it doesn't make sense for 90% of the characters he writes it for.

It's that very specific dynamic of one half of the pair who is almost aggressive to the other party - "teasing" them constantly/insulting them, affectionately punching/judo flipping/maiming/etc, seemingly almost always exasperated with the other - and said other party usually just accepts this treatment or blanketly views it fondly, and may generally be framed as more incompetent than their partner and a little bit of a doormat (particularly relating to being insulted/teased/etc by their partner).

We start seeing this dynamic in HoO with Percy and Annabeth, as a sort of semi-inconsistent twist on their rivals-to-friends-to-lovers dynamic from the first series. Then the dynamic pattern develops further with Leo and Calypso. Then Magnus and Alex. Then Nico and Will, particularly in TSATS. And now in CoTG, it's Percy and Annabeth again but even more in this direction.

I know people have talked about Nico and Will's relationship over the series rapidly being shoehorned into Percabeth Two™, and it's extremely apparent in TSATS that Rick's doing it on purpose (including directly quoting Percabeth scenes but minorly tweaking them to be Solangelo). But recognizing it as an overarching trend in Rick's later books honestly reminds me a lot of how Rick started trying to apply the "Percy Formula" so-to-speak to nearly every protagonist in HoO (and then try to replicate similar character archetypes with Magnus and Apollo's narrations - moreso Magnus in being jaded and sarcastic, very much trying to be first series Percy. He only sounds unique because Rick failed at making him Percy 2. Apollo is more akin to later-series Percy characterization of being goofy and incompetent. Apollo [and Zeus] even got retconned to give Apollo a more similar backstory to Percy's). Rick seems to have decided that he thinks the audience wants this specific dynamic but 10 times over, except he's not good at writing it the first time because it's a bastardization of the time he did a different thing okay.

And Rick also seems aware of that too! Because he retconned Calypso and Leo at the end of TOA, probably because he realized how absolutely awful it was reading when they were written with that dynamic of Calypso just functionally hating Leo and constantly being aggressive towards him! The only time Rick's actually made the dynamic even semi-successful was with Magnus and Alex, because it actually fits within their characters, their dynamics with each other, and their environment. Alex beheading Magnus on the regular works out fine because there are no repercussions to that in Valhalla, Magnus will be fine, so it does genuinely come off as humorous. And Alex has been effectively established to be abrasive at times but have her genuine feelings shine through regularly, and that meshes well with Magnus' jaded-and-aloof-but-quietly-very-empathetic character. And Magnus has been established to, yes, not be great at combat, particularly compared to Alex. They are the only time that flavor of dynamic in that form was effective and cohesive.

Percabeth is no longer rivals-to-friends-to-lovers badasses on equal levels with shaky pasts who finally found some form of permanence with one another. Now it's super smart doting and affectionately aggressive girlfriend and her silly goofy 50%-of-the-time incompetent boyfriend who she judo flips/pushes off cliffs/etc - but affectionately~! Solangelo is trying to riff off of the early series "Poseidon & Athena are enemies" dynamic that Percabeth had but with Apollo & Hades being "opposites" but learning to accept each other, except it ends up with Will just coming off as a huge asshole and Nico being retconned to a complete doormat about it - when prior to that those characterizations would be completely contrary to their established characters (even just from TOA!). Calypso in HoO gets retconned from her PJO characterization to being snooty and aggressive, and Leo's false persona gets merged into his just normal personality except he just also becomes a doormat but more goofy than Nico with occasional haha-dark/depression-humor! Which Nico also got. Which was also a bastardized Percy trait that got redistributed.

It's exhausting. Rick write more than one relationship dynamic you can do it I promise

[caelos-legacy]

Discovery

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[Comic Index]

[cloud-hymn]

Wei Wuxian constantly getting mischaracterized as being unintelligent in fanon is going to end up being my villain origin story

[carolinanadeau]

"this female character is underdeveloped" TO YOU. I can read subtext and I know all about her backstory and her rich inner life. also she told me personally

[the-bi-space-ace]

We do not give fans of the clones enough credit for giving characterization and life and love to characters that have like ten full minutes of screen time. We see a man with shiny armor and an attitude and suddenly there’s lore and fanfiction and art and I love that so much.

[elitadream]

Mario taking off his cap when standing before Peach is a detail that I often see mentioned to showcase his gallantry towards her, and I couldn't agree more.

But with that said-

Him offering his arm for her to take is something we need to talk about more, PLEASE.

[raineyraven]

my httyd shows tidbits post is still getting notes so what the hell. here's part two of canon tidbits confirmed in the shows that people who've only seen the httyd movies should know:

the shows are quite a bit more gay than the movies. nothing canon but we get many more gay jokes and. um. subtext? i'll call it subtext. courtesy of snotlout

fishlegs has an alter ego called thor bonecrusher. this is related to the above point.

snotlout acts sexist on a woman-only island so they threaten him with cannibalism. lol.

hiccup draws sketches of his friends in his notebook :]

the shows delve into the relationships between all the riders and their dragons, not just between hiccup and toothless. snotlout decides to never ride a dragon again when hookfang runs away. the twins get extremely depressed when barf and belch stop hanging out with them. astrid nearly dies trying to save stormfly from dragon hunters. they all love their dragons so much.

rtte shows how stoick met skullcrusher and how gobber met grump

valka, drago and a bewilderbeest all make cameo appearances in rtte

snotlout has been hit by lightning three times on-screen. he says hes been hit by lightning a total of twelve times though (which would make fourteen counting the times after he said that)

snotlout canonically has nightmares about being left behind and abandoned by the other dragon riders.

tuffnut gets attached to things very easily. he had an obssession with a mace he called macey and a chicken called chicken, the latter of which talked to him in a feminine, sultry voice when he was hallucinating. i am not making this up.

the twins, hiccup and snotlout can all sing to varying degrees of skill, as evidenced in rtte's musical episode

hiccup once had a no good very bad day where he got kidnapped by three or four people in less than 24 hours.

fishlegs' middle name is justin, tuffnut's is laverne, and ruffnut's is eugene

boar pit.

[sillyfairygarden]

90 minute leyendecker study b4 bed. heard cleo has a cat cafe this season :swoons:

[calmlb]

can we as a society please stop calling Dazai the “demon prodigy” like it’s canon??? IM BEGGING

his canon nickname is so underused too… i mean c’mon, the “black wraith of the Port Mafia??” idk if i’ve ever even seen it used in a fic 😭

[welcometogrouchland]

I understand that literature nerd Jason Todd is kind of overblown in fanon compared to it's actual presence in canon (a few issues during his pre (and post?)crisis Robin tenure that highlight it) BUT consider that I think it's hilarious if the unhinged gun toting criminal has strong opinions on poetry