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raven-at-the-writing-desk · 13 days ago

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quick question- I was a bit confused in some dialogue during book 1 lol 😭😭 It’s during the later chapters when riddle has collared both ace and deuce after they’ve challenged him for his seat. More specifically, the part where yuu calls riddle out for his behavior (rightfully so) and he responds by insulting them and their parents I believe?

The confusion stems from aceyuu shippers (just wanted to clarify I’m not self shipping lmao) where they say ace ends up punching riddle because he’s explicitly defending yuu’s honor or whatever but i also see other people (non-shippers) who say ace punched riddle because he insulted ace and/or deuce’s parents? Im not quite sure which one it is and went back in the actual game to check but i feel like the wording of riddle’s insults is a bit vague? Idk, maybe im just being a bit of a dum dum and can’t properly comprehend the scene even though it’s quite simple. I feel like it’s also just because i see a lot of people saying different stuff and just wanted to hear your thoughts on it if that’s okay?

I just feel like you really understand both the story and characters in that regard haha

P.S. your posts r genuinely very informative and helpful especially for people like me who kinda have no media literacy (not in a negative way!!) pls keep up the good work you’re rlly great at it <333

Hmmm, I see 🤔

Before I get to responding to this question, I want to preface this with a few disclaimers! Firstly, I do not mean to invalidate or detract from Ace x Yuu shippers or anyone who may interpret their relationship as romantic. You should ship what you like and have fun doing it. My reply aims to be more objective, but that should NOT impede on your enjoyment or whatever it is you choose to ship. Secondly, for those who don’t ship Ace x Yuu, I will be discussing the pairing later on in this post, so please keep this in mind.

Let's first look at how the game and how it depicts the scene. This occurs in 1-22, shortly after Riddle collars Ace and Deuce in their duel for the dorm leader seat. With his victory secured, Riddle begins to gloat about how this is proof that he is "the most correct". At this point, Yuu/the player character is granted two dialogue options:

If you choose "But that's not right!", Riddle replies with, "I am the one who decides what is wrong and right! What sort of pitiful education have you received, that you cannot follow such simple rules?"

If you choose "You can't just use rules to do whatever you please!", then Riddle replies with, "If there were no penalties, no one would follow the rules. I have to wonder what sort of pitiful education left you unable to comprehend so simple a concept."

However, no matter which dialogue option you choose, Riddle continues on to say, "Clearly, you were born to parents with no great magical capability. And as a result... You lack even the basic education necessary to attend a school such as this. It's quite sad."

Deuce becomes upset after hearing this--but before he is able to act, Ace is already on his feet and manages to deck his dorm leader in the face.

Based on the fact that Riddle seems to react to something that Yuu says, the framing here implies that the "you" Riddle is using refers to them specifically. As you can see above, both Ace and Deuce take offense to what Riddle says, but it is Ace that acts preemptively and attacks Riddle for his rudeness. This is what Ace x Yuu shippers will point to as a defining moment in their relationship (though, to be clear, this scene can definitely also be interpreted as platonic!!).

… Buuut it’s not completely clear that Riddle is explicitly directing any and all insults towards Yuu and Yuu alone, even if Yuu was the one to prompt his tirade. Due to the visual novel style format of the game, we have limited assets to base our interpretations off of, so going by the game alone may not be entirely accurate to what is happening in this scene. For example, we don't know how the characters are oriented relative to one another. It's possible that Riddle responds to Yuu's dialogue and then turns away to berate Yuu, Ace, and Deuce for their stupidity, since all three of them are, in his eyes, rule-breakers. We simply cannot tell due to the constraints of a visual novel. Let’s consult the manga adaptation and see how that presents 1-22.

In the Episode of Heartslabyul, the framing of the panels centers Riddle and Adeuce; Yuuken is not involved whatsoever. (On a prior page, all Yuuken remarks on is how fast Riddle is able to cast his spell; Yuuken has no lines similar to game!Yuu’s earlierdialogue options.) Riddle stands imposing over his opponents and rants at Ace and Deuce about their lack of an education. You can see that it really strikes a nerve with Deuce (whom we learned used to be a delinquent prior to NRC). This still results in Yuu punching Riddle.

The manga seems to imply that Riddle is not insulting Yuu, but rather Adeuce. This makes sense to me, given that though all of them are rebels to Heartslabyul’s strict rules, Adeuce are the two who most directly challenge his authority.

You can see in a close-up panel that Deuce is gritting his teeth and trying to hold himself back from going at Riddle. The text in that panel involves the mention of parents who cannot use magic—which just so happens to be true of Deuce’s mother. The same mother that he worked so hard to make proud of, the mother he turned over a new leaf for. But again, it’s Ace that gets the hit in. Why is that?

Let’s check out our final source, the first volume of the light novel. On pages 319 and 320:

Riddle very clearly states “And as for you two.” This clearly refers to the fallen Ace and Deuce. He then unleashes his barrage of insults at them. Again, not at Yuu, but at Ace and Deuce. The text even goes on to remind us that Deuce would be especially rattled by Riddle’s words because of how he had come to NRC for the sake of his mom. In this version, we see our Yuu (Yuuya) being more involved by trying to keep Deuce from lashing out. Like in the game, however, Ace still gets in that punch on his dorm leader.

Okay, so… The game, manga, and light novels are different iterations of the same base story. Based on which you consume, you could walk away with an entirely different understanding of the scene in question. The game, being the most interactive medium with a self-insert main character, a gacha game which makes $$$ from endearing the characters to us, has the set-up which is most conducive for yumeshipping and thus making the player feel beloved and important in 1-22. This is obvious if you also consider that many fanservicey lines from other parts of the game (such as Ace wanting to sleep in Yuu’s room) being left out of the manga. It's also entirely possible that Riddle first reacts to what Yuu says, and THEN shifts his attention to address the group rather than just Yuu. The manga, with a more standoffish and level-headed Yuu, doesn’t speak up like game!Yuu does, so Riddle instead directly insults Ace and Deuce. The light novel, which features a timid and non-confrontational Yuu, is focused on deescalating the situation. And, like the manga, the light novel is NOT interactive and so it doesn’t need to concern itself with making the player feel special. Riddle isn’t mandated to acknowledge Yuu; he can instead be mad at Ace and Deuce all he likes.

If we were to combine information from across the game, manga, and light novel to decipher what is “truly” happening, here’s how I see it!

The light novel contains a scene exclusive to it on pages 176 and 177. As Ace is making himself comfortable at Ramshackle, he formally apologizes to Yuuya for being mean to him in the prologue. Ace explains that his meanness was because he thought that Yuuya had bullied his way to be admitted to NRC under special circumstances. “[…] the rest of us had to work our butts off to get in, and you just sorta walked in.” He proclaims that this was unfair, so it annoyed him.

This makes a lot of sense for Ace’s character. In book 7 of the main story, he expresses that he is insecure about being an ordinary mage and that he hadn’t even developed his UM yet. (Coincidentally, he has a Chat where he praises the Queen of Hearts for having no special magic but still being able to make it big—perhaps because her circumstances remind Ace of himself?) He calls himself lame and pathetic, someone who is always looking for an excuse to take the easy way out. This is in spite of the bravado he puts on and how he often brags about being better or smarter than Deuce (most notably in book 5). If we believe the light novel dialogue, Ace worked hard to get invited to NRC. He has pride in earning this, and he has something to prove while he is there. Recall that his older brother is an alumnus of the school, and that his own father is a magicless human. Ace canonically has a good relationship with both of these family members and often bonds with them through little things like card trick competitions. When Riddle insults Ace's background... he is also insulting Ace's brother and father. He is also insulting all the effort Ace put forth to get into NRC in the first place. Ace would of course lose it--especially when he has been the primary victim of Riddle's rage for most of book 1. He's the first to be collared, the one who had to apologize and attempted to make an apology tart (which got rejected). Bro's fed UP having to bend the knee to a tyrant and sick of watching everyone else do the same. The punch that comes out of it seems to me like the result of all Ace's pent-up frustrations, as well as his own fury at Riddle speaking ill of him and his family.

While Ace is unquestionably willing to ride or die for Yuu in books 4 (he takes a long public transit route from the Queendom to Sage's Island after receiving a SOS text from them) and 6 (he tries to protect his friends from Ferrymen)... I think book 1's a bit too early for him to be SO loyal to Yuu that he'd get this angry on their behalf and sock Riddle. (Book 1 takes place during the first week of school; Ace seems to have only known Yuu for a few days at this point + hasn't really hung out with them besides sleeping over at Ramshackle since he's not allowed back at Heartslabyul.) His punch definitely feels fueled by a bunch of other things rather than being extremely motivated to defend Yuu's honor. I think maybe a case could be made for the game specifically, since that's the only version where Yuu is potentially addressed rather than Ace and Deuce being addressed. However, this does take some extrapolation. You'd have to assume that Ace is actually very attached to Yuu this early on or pair it with the idea that Ace is sensitive about magicless humans in general being discriminated against because of his own father being magicless (ie Ace was insulted by proxy, even if Riddle might have aimed the comments at Yuu). Not sure if the latter argument holds up very well though, considering that Ace himself did discriminate against Yuu in the prologue because they lacked magic. Likewise, he doesn't get mad for Fellow and Gidel in Playful Land when they share about being looked down on for not being magically inclined. But hey, maybe that was just Ace being in denial and acting contrary in order to cope with his own complicated feelings on the topic. He’s been known to behave like this anyway, acting cocky despite having no UM and denying that Yuu would go home (even though we later find out he deeply does not wish for this to happen).

I definitely think that many of the game-exclusive lines and content are there as fanservice for the players, who are encouraged to project or to self-insert as Yuu. Ace in particular is one of the characters who gets a ton of this kind of yumejoshi bait-y stuff. Everyone has it to some extent, but Ace is one of the rare few who has several pretty overt instances in the main story (whereas most other characters have their fanservice content relegated to voice lines and maybe some events). On top of this scene (which could potentially read as "Ace defending Yuu's honor"), we have: multiple instances of Ace offering to share a room/bed with Yuu (once in book 1, again in book 3), he has shared his number with Yuu and invites them to call him if they "miss him", Ace's entire book 7 dream revolving around a reality in which Yuu is able to freely traverse between Twisted Wonderland and their original world (furthermore, he is the ONLY dreamer we have seen in which Yuu is involved in the dream), etc. Ace is also known to frequently tease Yuu, and, on top of having several voice lines inviting them to hang out, is actually shown hanging out with them and caring about them in various vignettes and events. For example, he has movie nights with Yuu (Idia's Labwear vignettes), asks for their opinion on whether or not he looks the part to woo the Ghost Bride, rides roller coasters with them in Playful Land while previously complaining that his ex-girlfriend wouldn’t, and worries for where Yuu might be (Endless Halloween Night). With this abundance of Ace and Yuu content, I can see why people that have the shipping goggles on--and even those who don't--might interpret early scenes as Ace acting out for Yuu's sake, be it romantically or platonically. More objectively speaking and when considering the manga + light novel though, I don't think I personally read 1-22 that way. I enjoy Ace as a character and I support Ace x Yuu shippers, but the evidence and context suggests that he's venting other frustrations to me.

Again though, this is just my interpretation. Feel free to use this information however you’d like and come to your own conclusion.

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raven-at-the-writing-desk · 19 days ago

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all the fanarts of yuu and grim supporting ace through his um awakening as well as ace casting his UM as of late has been making me go crazy 🥹 theyre all so tender and all so beautiful we're getting fed.

And them finally giving us a clearer picture of ace's insecurities is just so?? The build up and the pressure and then the internal monologue where everything comes crashing down when hes forced to face just how weak he is. I really liked that this part of him has finally been explored by the devs waaah.

I also really love how he parallels yuu in a way, the both of them being this "ordinary" person, the both of them lacking the power to protect those whom they care for. Usually yuu takes a step back and the story focuses more on the dynamic of the boys with each other and letting the yuu kinda be like this player self insert but as if late the story seems to be putting a lot of emphasis on yuu's importance and impact on ace which feels like something twst or games in general wouldnt normally do? Because it feels like it makes a chara particularly close to a neutral character and potentially being unfair for other charas duo that others may like idk how to explain it

Im kinda curious as to your thoughts on this, or more specifically ace and yuu's dynamic over the course of the story from their first meeting up to now. Cuz yuu feels like a person or place where ace turns to for reassurance and protection/comfort in a way, like their very existence gives him courage to push forward

[More about Ace’s UM here!]

d hi issgusJkaja I-I haven’t been scrolling on socials the last few weeks so I had the chance to see much fan art (other than what friends have shown me) 😭 but I’m sure it’s very tasty content!!

Yeeeah, I was waiting on the devs to finally get around to addressing Ace’s insecurities. in book 5, we had a brief mention of being being shocked Deuce got his UM before he did, then he was out of commission in book 6, and finally early in book 7 he deflected from the idea of Yuu going back to their original world. Suffice it to say, they addressed both the UM and the Yuu issues so well; it was really heart wrenching to see Ace in denial in his own dream and then struggling with his self confidence in Riddle’s dream. No more cocky attitude and brazenness, ahahah… only vulnerability 😈

Yuu is the one to calm him down when he’s panicking. The one giving him encouragement, the one holding his hand/shoulders (you get an option for this), the one talking him through this overwhelming feeling. That’s so powerful… It says a lot about their bond with their friend.

I love that Ace gets his moment. The first NRC student we met is the final one to get his unique magic—a magic he is able to take hold of, despite his doubts, thanks to Yuu’s reassurance and coaching. The first encounter was the domino that led up to this. First enemies, then friends. Through thick and thin, trials and tribulations, together until the bitter end. And when you think about it, they’re similar in their insecurities too. Worried that they’re not enough, that they’re ordinary, that they don’t contribute as much as they should, that they can’t protect the people they care about. It’s a great parallel, and that really slots in nicely with Twst’s recurring themes and imagery of characters mirroring each other.

Mmm… I think I understand what you’re getting at? Because Yuu is a self-insert type of character, you’re saying it is odd that Ace specifically has been getting a lot of screen time and bonding with Yuu compared to what the other characters get with Yuu. And that it’s giving Ace stans (and yumes) more fanservice than stans of other characters, so it may feel a little unfair? If I’m understanding you correctly 😅

I think that’s kind of hard to judge, honestly. Ace got like zero involvement in book 6 and was not that important for the latter half of book 5. One could argue all this attention in book 7 is just making up for what he didn’t have in prior books. You could also say that it makes sense for Ace to get more of the spotlight given his importance in the prologue, how “the guy that begins it all also ends it all”, and his well-established relationship with Yuu. To go even further, some might point out that other characters like Malleus get this “special treatment” too. Yuu barely gets any time to bond with the OB boys one-on-one, but they get to be Malleus’s secret buddy for most of the main story (even if they technically only physically meet around 5 times total). I don’t take issue with how Ace was handled; this was a long time coming and he deserved it. It’s not like other characters didn’t also get their moments in other parts of the game or events or what have you 🤷‍♀️

While I definitely think Yuu’s friendship is very precious to Ace, I wouldn’t go so far as to say “Yuu feels like a person or place where Ace turns to for reassurance and protection/comfort in a way, like [Yuu’s] very existence gives [Ace] courage to push forward.” I think that’s stretching it a bit. Maybe it’s somewhat true for book 7, since Ace centers his happiness around Yuu’s presence and seizes the courage to charge in with his newly acquired UM after Yuu cheers him on. However, I never got the sense that Ace thought of them as a source of comfort and courage prior to book 7. For a large part of the main story I just got the sense he was a misbehaved idiot with a heart of gold.

Ace bullies Yuu at first and then becomes a reluctant ally when their interests align (ie not getting expelled) in the prologue. Yuu grants him temporary housing in book 1 and supports him as he tries to earn his way back into the dorm and then even as he resists Riddle’s rule. Ace goes pretty far to defend his own stance, but arguably also Yuu’s honor, as I believe he rushes in to punch his dorm leader when he insults Yuu’s lack of education. He joins the investigation but doesn’t really help much in book 2. The he assists in fulfilling Azul’s deal to save Ramshackle and the anemone’d students in book 3. There’s also the infamous scene where he jokes about sleeping in the same room together. He is gone for most of book 4, but makes a long and tedious trip back (with Deuce) to address Yuu’s SOS message. Ace is a VDC/SDC participant and has that whole dilemma with Deuce getting bis UM before he does. In book 6, he is knocked out fighting Ferrymen and tearfully reunites with his friends at the end of the book. Early in 7, he is quick to dismiss the idea of Yuu going back to their world—and then this culminates in his own dream and his actions in Riddle’s, which I already discussed earlier. A lot of other small moments occur as well, showing Ace eating with Yuu, going to class with Yuu, etc.

A majority of the behaviors I recall are either Ace and Yuu casually hanging out or Ace rushing to protect them from something, be it insults or physical/magical blows. It’s not a ton of Ace overtly depending on Yuu. I don’t even think I could find any implications of him depending on Yuu in his dialogue or through more subtle cues. He certainly gets emotional when Yuu is involved, but this by itself doesn’t necessarily mean he looks to them for reassurance. Ace has always been pretty guarded, even expositing that no one at NRC would offer you a helping hand as late as Lilia’s farewell party. It’s only when we get to late book 7 that Ace starts changing his tune.

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