#challengers meta

[volchitsa-of-winterfell]

the way patrick zweig is so clearly a creature of desire; so fundamentally hungry. always devouring, uncaring of how desperate he might appear for it—taking a bite of the line judge's bagel sandwich before he even sits down; scarfing down his hotdog before grabbing a bite of art's, and then later treating their churros exactly the same way; picking the cigarette that tashi slapped out of his mouth up off the literal alleyway street so he can finish smoking it. acting on his hungers without asking permission first.

the way art donaldson is comfortable expressing desire without acting on it; content to yearn. mr. i-do-what-she-says-and-then-i-win obediently drinks his green juices, his electrolyte mixes; he lays his heart on the table for tashi, twice, and lets her decide when to take it; he tells her he wants to kiss her, but then lets her come to him to actually do it. a lapdog, just like patrick says: he'll turn his pleading eyes to you, desire writ across every line of him, but he is too well-bred to ever snap and just take.

....except, of course, with patrick; but even then, only when he can sublimate his desire for patrick into the appearance of desire for another woman. snapping at the churro when patrick calls him out over sowing doubt in his relationship with tashi is the obvious one, but also the fact that art is the one to come first in their mutual-masturbation experience when talking about kat zimmerman (how much of it was because of miss zimmerman and how much of it was art letting himself imagine patrick with her?). patrick, in the churro scene, describes it as seeing art "lit up about something," and while he's not wrong i think it's more specific than that. art feels deeply, keenly, but he guards the flames of his desire so carefully; banks them down and keeps the embers glowing for years. tashi is content to meet art halfway, to take the quiet longing invitations he extends. patrick is not. his desire, his hunger, is bigger than that. he wants to see sparks fly. how perfect, then, that he is the only one who can bring that out of art. he does exactly that with the racket-neck signal, and art (once he's over his shock) is once again lit up; ready to take the win, not to have it handed to him.

the way tashi duncan understands them both, perfectly, from their very first night in that hotel room that was so formative for all three of them. she kisses art first, because she already knows that if she kissed patrick first, art would take that as a rejection and retreat; put his desire away. she kisses art first because she knows patrick will not give up on his own desires that easily. she understands how to stoke art's desires and how to temper patrick's and teach him patience. and because of that, she gets them both: she doesn't have to choose.

[futuremrscameron]

all of patrick’s scenes with art have the yearning undertone to them in the hotel when art days they weren’t together like that patrick looked so sad😭 and when art basically rejected him in the sauna you could tell he was crushed and trying not to show it while watching their friendship scenes i just kept wondering when they were gonna kiss (churro scene, their hug after beating those guys, running around the court, coming up with the signal, the final hug)

[tarotofbadkitties]

The reason the hotel scene is so weird is Patrick. Fresh off starting a fight with him for no reason, Art's coming in hot. He's both guilty because he was such a dick, and also pumped with adrenaline cause being mean is a rush for people who are never mean. When he tells Tashi he has something to say to her that's going to make her mad, his body is tense and his hands are twitching. Art's ready to have that fight about his retirement.

What Art doesn't know, is that she and Patrick already had the fight they should be having in this moment. She should be pissed because they've been doing this together and now he wants to quit on her, but her affects all wrong; she's as placid as a lake. Her energy is making him anxious, suspicious, and you can see his brain going a mile a minute. Just like a partner having a sexual affair isn't horny when you expect them to be because they gave their lust to someone else, a partner having an emotional one can be too calm when you expect them to be fired up. Patrick gave him some pushback, but he had the big fight about being abandoned in favor of the saddest marriage in the world with Tashi and was ready to reconcile. Unlike Tashi, who liked to meditate and be chill before a match, Art's looking for a fight ahead of his match in the morning.

The problem is, neither of his people are down for that, and he can't put his finger on why. With that plan foiled, he switches gears to sexy mode. While he's working his way into the zone, slowly kissing his way around Tashi's body, she's damn near ready to combust. At this point, he can try to catch up and satisfy her OR he can leave her sexually unsatisfied the same way she left him emotionally unsatisfied. What wins this battle is passively giving her permission to sneak out while he pretends to be asleep. If she wants to fight with Patrick then she can go fuck him too.

[ghostgirl-22]

Art says to Tashi that he and Patrick usually have different types… what do you think their types are? Like what traits they are attracted to that are kind of opposites by also part of Tashi personality

This is such a good question!

Now I’m trying to think what they each like about her. They both clearly admire her tennis skills.

Hmm… I think about how they both idolize her at first. Patrick as this hot tennis prodigy he really wants to fuck. And Art thinks she’s a deity.

I think Patrick very quickly starts to perceive her less than perfect self and mistakenly believes they’re on the same level, I think he loves the challenge of her but doesn’t like confronting the reality that she’s even better than him. It attracts him and makes him insecure at the same time and triggers his self destructive side.

I don’t think Art ever stops worshipping her. Even when they’re married with a child and he’s undermining her and self sabotaging because he doesn’t feel like he’s good enough or like she could ever want someone like him (even though they’re married).

But different types…

Art wants a good girl he can bring home to family, a beautiful girl who he perceives as flawless. Someone he can project onto. A Disney princess type known for being the most beautiful like Snow White, or sleeping beauty. I see the take that he pretends to be humble but secretly loves the attention and I agree. He has to thrive in that attention if he’s succeeding at tennis at that level. So I think he likes the trophy girl to show her off too so everyone says “wow look who he’s with!” Even better if she’s popular, confident and smart. If she has a strong personality like Tashi or Patrick he will be attracted to that as well but in the sense that he’d like to be molded into something similar.

Patrick would be all over the place. Good girls/boys and bad girls/boys. He’s interested in looks of course but he seems like the kinda guy to whisper something inappropriate in your ear in front of people just to see you squirm. He wants the good girl but only to push her buttons and corrupt her. He would appreciate someone who matches his freak too. Someone daring. Disney Princesses like Mulan or Jasmine. He would bring a bad girl home (or a boy), just for the entertainment of it. He likes to get a rise out of people… sometimes to his and everyone’s detriment. I think he might feel threatened if they’re better than he is at something he cares about but other than that he’d love a smart, funny confident girl who challenges him.

Finally I think Art would want Patrick to find the person he’s dating attractive. Not to date her but Patrick would have to be impressed that Art is with her, envious even. Like even if Art thought she was the most beautiful girl in the world if Patrick wasn’t impressed it would fall apart. And if Patrick started to go after a girl Art didn’t find attractive he might start thinking about her as attractive.

Idk these are just my ramblings 🤷🏿‍♀️ what do yall think?

[notagarroter]

Rewatching Challengers, and I feel like I still don't quite get what the big fight was really about…

Like, a lot of people (including the stars!) are saying Art caused the fight by messing with their heads. But it doesn't quite compute for me? Art just told Tashi that Patrick wasn't serious about her, and turned around and said the same thing to Patrick about Tashi. Which might have been a bit manipulative, but was also pretty earnest… I think he genuinely believed neither of them was that serious, and she'd be better off with him (Art), since he loved her.

So then the fight… it seems to me it starts because Tashi is unimpressed with Patrick's playing recently, and decides to tell him this during sex. Which he is like, understandably offended by, and he asks her to back off. At which point she stops the sex and continues to call him a loser, so he gathers the shreds of his dignity and is like, "fine, I guess I won't go to your match."

And that supposedly threw her off her game and caused the injury? I don't know, man. It seems to me that Tashi played herself here. The fight had nothing to do with what Art said, and everything to do with her not wanting to be hitched to a mediocrity.

What am I missing?

[all-inmoderation]

gonna admit, i was very convinced that patrick was in love with Art, but i wasnt very convinced of it the other way around. art just seemed head over heels and tunnel visioned onto Tashi. idk what do u guys think

[amorisxx]

Tashi really is tennis.

She’s the personification of tennis in the lives of Art and Patrick. She’s the competive sport that broke them apart and brought them back together years later.

Tennis (Tashi) makes them compete with each other for the first time that really matters at the Junior US Open.

Patrick wins the match, meaning that he wins Tennis (Tashi). Art is visibly jealous because he wants that relationship with Tennis as well.

Patrick has a long distance relationship with Tennis (Tashi) when he goes on tour. He slacks on discipline and doesn’t get a coach which creates distance and tension between him and Tennis (Tashi).

Art is closer to Tennis at Stanford.

He tries to sow seeds of doubt with Tashi which could be symbolic of him training to be better at Tennis than Patrick is.

But Patrick notices it when he comes to visit. He notices that Art is becoming a better player while training at Stanford.

Patrick isn’t upset. He says that’s what’s been missing from Art’s tennis—his desire for it.

Art is enthralled by Tennis and will do what he needs to in order to get Her.

When Patrick all but dismisses the idea of a coach, he effectively loses Tennis/Tashi. (The argument in her dorm)

From that point on, he’s always scrambling to get Tennis back in whatever way he can.

Meanwhile, Art makes a deal with Tennis. He agrees to dedicate his life to her. (He marries Tashi/Tennis.) He essentially falls in love with Tennis.

Art also places Tennis on a pedestal. One that Patrick does not necessarily. Tennis/Tashi is this almost divine concept for Art. He looks to Her for guidance.

Patrick loves Tennis as well, but he doesn’t have the same reverence for Her. (We see this with him saying that he’s Tashi’s peer and his casual references to her as a hot woman.)

When Art runs into Patrick in Atlanta for the first time since their falling out, he’s confronted with the possibility that Patrick might take Tennis from him. (He sees them talking and assumes they hooked up.)

However, this encounter between Patrick and Tennis doesn’t result in Art losing Her, as Art still goes on to marry Tashi/Tennis.

In 2019, we see Art depressed and in a strained relationship with Tennis. He fears he might lose Her if he admits he wants to retire.

Tennis brings Art and Patrick back together again with the challenger. (Tashi is the one to sign Art up for the challenger)

Patrick tries to make a deal with Tennis again, but his chances of success are slim now that he’s waited so long. (That’s why Tashi tells him he’d be better off shooting himself)

During the challenger, Patrick makes the first move by giving the signal. This allows them to finally let go of fighting over Tennis. They bask in their shared love for Tennis, causing Her to cheer when they embrace.

[inevitablecorgi]

With my aromantic tendencies and such, asking whether Tashi loves Art is like asking if she has enough unicorn dust to correctly calibrate his magic feather. Like, those words don't even mean anything. Somewhat contradictorally, though, that's also why I think she *should* tell him she'll love him no matter what, I am not sure that I find her unwillingness to say it excusable. The cheating or the match fixing are whatever but, like, girl, you know those words mean something TO HIM, get off your high horse and tell him. I say all this with great empathy for Tashi and as a big fan of the way those scenes work in the movie. If your explanation is 'Actually, if she told him she would always love him, he would have failed at the tennis.' (1) I don't believe that's true (2) If it is true that she values this meaningless milestone more than their marriage, they actually do need to break up.

[soliloqueeer]

art, patrick, tashi & astrology

anyone else ever wonder what art, patrick, and tashi's big three are? no? well, i have.

(the stars wrote that they'd all be compatible in some way, but also drive each other insane).

art donaldson:

libra sun: charming, sociable, and diplomatic. values harmony and balance in their relationships and surroundings. has strong sense of justice and fairness, often striving to create peace and avoid conflict. very unsuspecting and unwilling to take the blame. has deep desire for beautiful things.

cancer rising: comes across as nurturing, sensitive, and intuitive. very caring and protective of their loved ones, often putting others' needs before their own. may appear reserved or cautious when first meeting people but are deeply loyal once they form a bond.

virgo moon: can lack self-confidence. content with living “regular”, unassuming lives. easily overwhelmed by pressure and stress. quite shy in love, easily intimidated on a sexual level, but they aim to please nonetheless.

patrick zweig:

leo sun: confident, charismatic, big personality - enjoys being the centre of attention. has a strong sense of pride but they may be perceived as conceited and self-absorbed. leadership comes naturally to them. craves approval and affection from others.

aquarius rising: unique, independent, forward-thinking. often seen as unconventional and may have a rebellious streak. can come across as sociable and friendly but may also appear detached or aloof. likes getting a rise out of others, are quietly provocative and irreverent.

pisces moon: deeply sensitive and strongly intuitive. very empathetic and perceptive of people and their emotions & inner-workings. they can be flaky and absent-minded. very idealistic - sometimes sees the world through rose-colored glasses.

tashi duncan:

aries sun: confident, energetic, assertive. natural leaders with a strong desire to take initiative and pursue their goals with enthusiasm and determination. often direct, courageous, and willing to take risks.

capricorn rising: presents themselves as disciplined, ambitious, and responsible. they ooze competence, and are very image-oriented. sets long-term goals and works diligently to achieve them. may come across as reserved, cautious or dead-pan.

scorpio moon: emotional life is intense, passionate, and deeply private. due to strong emotions, they have a deep need for emotional security and control. incredibly perceptive and intuitive - often able to see beneath the surface of situations and people. may be prone to secrecy and a desire for transformative experiences (i feel like this is why she cuts her hair at different stages of her life).

p.s. i know this is silly but really, to me, its just a fun way to analyze their characters.

[shenergyx]

okay, i ended up having to take this out of the tags and add my voice properly because yes yes yes.

i need the poly community to firmly put this ship on their back because people need to understand that even with proper healthy communication, the third person would always still end up involved.

Tashi fundamentally fucked their heads up ON SIGHT. even if Art/Pat was already established, they'd have to have THAT conversation - you know - the POLY conversation. of "hm - say - have you noticed how there's no air in the room when Tashi's in it? is that just me? or??"

because!!!!!! let's talk about the bi-erasure of thinking Art/Pat would've just been in gay love together if they weren't being repressed dumb dumbs.

naur babes. Naur.

Tashi throws a new center of gravity in their orbit and they are permanently fucked about it. like, who falls in love with Tashi first? who just wants to keep it casual with her because they're scared things will change? and do either of them even consider that Tashi actually cares? or have they objectified/deified her to a point where she can't properly get through?

BECAUSE understand that Tashi is not just blase whatever about them either. and it is THEM and not one or the other. When they approach her at the adidas party, she already knows EXACTLY who they are. she's been following their game, and she likes them together. How many people do you think approach her like that that she actually gives the time of day? When she agrees to go to the beach, it's already begun. When she actually shows up at the hotel, she knows exactly what she's after. She never wanted one or the other, it's BOTH of them. because they play fucking. good. tennis.

And I think there's just no version where any of them just let it be. Especially if Tashi never gets injured. after point of contact, someone's always texting someone, showing up at games unannounced, sending random gifts because "it made me think of you". And that's always going to be an emotional sexually charged mess. They're gonna have to talk about it.

Or not, and end up having random explosive fuck sessions across the nation every 5 years.

on that note it’s crucial to understand that there is no twosome from the challengers trio that could ever work. like patrick and art alone are repressed tashi and art alone are resentful tashi and patrick alone are toxic it simply does not work they always need the third to balance each other out this is is a throuple movie a threesome movie you’re literally not understanding

[futuremrscameron]

tashi reminds me of shauna from yellowjackets in the sense that she doesn’t love him but she definitely cares about him more than she allows herself to acknowledge or even feel cause the fact that she told him she’d leave him if he didn’t win but still held him until he fell asleep when he asked then left to ask patrick to throw the game? yes it was about not losing tennis but if that was all it was about she could’ve coached someone else someone better she cares about art and actually likes him. she’s fond of him. all those moments when they were in college when he’d say something and she’d look at him like she’s surprised that he gets what she means or has more depth to him than she thought and smiles, whether it’s platonic or familial or romantic or she’s just used to being with him or doesn’t want to hurt lily she cares and it’s why she asked patrick to throw the game.

[letsduneit]

it's wild to me that people act as if chani's primary reason for leaving paul was bitterness about being a concubine like girl..... i promise that did not even register in her brain compared to the realization that paul had chosen to become her people's oppressor, to become her oppressor, to destroy the equality that was very foundation of their relationship. i promise her agency and her loyalty to her people, things which existed before paul and will exist after him, were more important to her than how "official" her relationship would be considered within a system she did not care about.

[ghostgirl-22]

Gonna out myself as the person who asked for the BDSM Club blurb, which I loved, but I don't love asking people to write stuff if they don't really feel too into it yk.

(Cause I hated that expectation when I was writing fanfiction consistently, bygone era)

Anyway, I love your writing and I agree with just about everything you have to say about Challengers (not to dick ride 💀)

With their types...I completely agree, if it wasn't for Tashi, Art would go for a full on WASP that could maybe be another athlete, but probably someone less successful and less talented not because Art wants a pretty sack of potatoes as a wife, but because he is really insecure. And he'll probably still have ED because he isn't being challenged; or really, he is just so repressed and wants to appease this idea that he may or may not have projected onto him.

Patrick is a wildcard like you said (Hobosexual)

I could see him with someone to challenge him, someone that relishes in his presence, or a bit of both. I think that's why he's such a good foil for both Tashi and Art.

Oh hi<33

I loved writing your prompt actually!! I was so into it (which is probably why it was so ridiculously long lol). I thought I was cooking and then I read what I wrote and was like oh I think I’m not good at this 😭 of course that was likely my silly brain playing tricks on me (like Art I just need to get over myself my insecurities). Sorry for how it came across I just meant to preface it as begging for forgiveness because BDSM isn’t something I normally write outside of occasional undertones so it was a little challenging, but fun! Thank you for the lovely prompt<3

Anywho, I do agree with you somewhat! I could see Art going for some rich waspy girl his family introduces him to, but I could also see him being attracted to another POC of the same “type” (less successful, less talented, more submissive than Tashi and Patrick) . And all because he believes he isnt good enough for someone that challenges him or makes him come alive so he’d settle for “pretty” to fit his cookie cutter goals. Art would definitely still have ED, that’s a given, poor baby.

Oddly enough, I feel like Patrick would also struggle with the insecurity of a partner that’s more successful (pre 2019) because of his ego (depending on what the thing they excel at is. If she was a math genius he’d be bragging like “my girl knows more than Einstein” but if she’s in the same field as him like pro sports I think he’d struggle with it unless he was also doing well.) He’s definitely the guy that needs to mansplain his skill set to you and calls you cute when you hit the ball harder than him.

For that period in 2019 (and before) he’s an absolute hobosexual lol. He’s there for the ride (and a place to stay)!

[myrmidryad]

#there's some interesting stuff here but as a lifelong tennis nerd there's one thing that doesn't quite work for me #namely percentage tennis #percentage tennis isn't about holding back and being afraid #percentage tennis is when you play it safe and wait for (or hope that) your opponent makes a mistake #you make sure that your shots stay in the court so that if your opponent swings for a line and misses you win the point #it's much more calculated and strategic than simplt holding back #which does track with art's story #in that he waits for patrick to fuck up to get a shot with tashi #and tries to drive a wedge between them in the way that a player might hit a rally ball that sets up a potential error from their opponent #i agree that art is holding back (repression plus desperation for approval) but to say that he's just afraid is to do him a disservice #he's much snakier and more duplicitous than that lol #he's playing percentage tennis and waiting for his opponent (patrick) to fuck up #my thoughts as i see it at 1.15 am #challengers #i also think that patrick's comment about art just being really really good belies the fact that in-universe he has won six grand slams #on three different surfaces #that puts him in all-time great territory #that's only one less that venus williams or john mcenroe for example #and more than plenty of former world no.1s #like that man will have absolutely maxxed out his talent #thanks to tashi

@technotrousers with a better explanation of percentage tennis

[notagarroter]

Challengers fans, I need to know: how much do you think the other tennis players knew or guessed about what was going on with Tashi, Art, and Patrick? Were the other pros all gossiping about their bedroom arrangements? What about the Stanford tennis team, did they know? Was there anyone in the crowd at the New Rochelle showdown who had some inkling of the history between these three, or were all the spectators totally baffled when the players started cursing and panicking and playing ~very oddly~ at a nominally insignificant challenger match?

[mellxncollie]

Charles Rowland & Edwin Payne | Dead Boy Detectives 1.02