#challengers meta

[volchitsa-of-winterfell]

the way patrick zweig is so clearly a creature of desire; so fundamentally hungry. always devouring, uncaring of how desperate he might appear for it—taking a bite of the line judge's bagel sandwich before he even sits down; scarfing down his hotdog before grabbing a bite of art's, and then later treating their churros exactly the same way; picking the cigarette that tashi slapped out of his mouth up off the literal alleyway street so he can finish smoking it. acting on his hungers without asking permission first.

the way art donaldson is comfortable expressing desire without acting on it; content to yearn. mr. i-do-what-she-says-and-then-i-win obediently drinks his green juices, his electrolyte mixes; he lays his heart on the table for tashi, twice, and lets her decide when to take it; he tells her he wants to kiss her, but then lets her come to him to actually do it. a lapdog, just like patrick says: he'll turn his pleading eyes to you, desire writ across every line of him, but he is too well-bred to ever snap and just take.

....except, of course, with patrick; but even then, only when he can sublimate his desire for patrick into the appearance of desire for another woman. snapping at the churro when patrick calls him out over sowing doubt in his relationship with tashi is the obvious one, but also the fact that art is the one to come first in their mutual-masturbation experience when talking about kat zimmerman (how much of it was because of miss zimmerman and how much of it was art letting himself imagine patrick with her?). patrick, in the churro scene, describes it as seeing art "lit up about something," and while he's not wrong i think it's more specific than that. art feels deeply, keenly, but he guards the flames of his desire so carefully; banks them down and keeps the embers glowing for years. tashi is content to meet art halfway, to take the quiet longing invitations he extends. patrick is not. his desire, his hunger, is bigger than that. he wants to see sparks fly. how perfect, then, that he is the only one who can bring that out of art. he does exactly that with the racket-neck signal, and art (once he's over his shock) is once again lit up; ready to take the win, not to have it handed to him.

the way tashi duncan understands them both, perfectly, from their very first night in that hotel room that was so formative for all three of them. she kisses art first, because she already knows that if she kissed patrick first, art would take that as a rejection and retreat; put his desire away. she kisses art first because she knows patrick will not give up on his own desires that easily. she understands how to stoke art's desires and how to temper patrick's and teach him patience. and because of that, she gets them both: she doesn't have to choose.

[futuremrscameron]

all of patrick’s scenes with art have the yearning undertone to them in the hotel when art days they weren’t together like that patrick looked so sad😭 and when art basically rejected him in the sauna you could tell he was crushed and trying not to show it while watching their friendship scenes i just kept wondering when they were gonna kiss (churro scene, their hug after beating those guys, running around the court, coming up with the signal, the final hug)

[tarotofbadkitties]

The reason the hotel scene is so weird is Patrick. Fresh off starting a fight with him for no reason, Art's coming in hot. He's both guilty because he was such a dick, and also pumped with adrenaline cause being mean is a rush for people who are never mean. When he tells Tashi he has something to say to her that's going to make her mad, his body is tense and his hands are twitching. Art's ready to have that fight about his retirement.

What Art doesn't know, is that she and Patrick already had the fight they should be having in this moment. She should be pissed because they've been doing this together and now he wants to quit on her, but her affects all wrong; she's as placid as a lake. Her energy is making him anxious, suspicious, and you can see his brain going a mile a minute. Just like a partner having a sexual affair isn't horny when you expect them to be because they gave their lust to someone else, a partner having an emotional one can be too calm when you expect them to be fired up. Patrick gave him some pushback, but he had the big fight about being abandoned in favor of the saddest marriage in the world with Tashi and was ready to reconcile. Unlike Tashi, who liked to meditate and be chill before a match, Art's looking for a fight ahead of his match in the morning.

The problem is, neither of his people are down for that, and he can't put his finger on why. With that plan foiled, he switches gears to sexy mode. While he's working his way into the zone, slowly kissing his way around Tashi's body, she's damn near ready to combust. At this point, he can try to catch up and satisfy her OR he can leave her sexually unsatisfied the same way she left him emotionally unsatisfied. What wins this battle is passively giving her permission to sneak out while he pretends to be asleep. If she wants to fight with Patrick then she can go fuck him too.

[notagarroter]

Rewatching Challengers, and I feel like I still don't quite get what the big fight was really about…

Like, a lot of people (including the stars!) are saying Art caused the fight by messing with their heads. But it doesn't quite compute for me? Art just told Tashi that Patrick wasn't serious about her, and turned around and said the same thing to Patrick about Tashi. Which might have been a bit manipulative, but was also pretty earnest… I think he genuinely believed neither of them was that serious, and she'd be better off with him (Art), since he loved her.

So then the fight… it seems to me it starts because Tashi is unimpressed with Patrick's playing recently, and decides to tell him this during sex. Which he is like, understandably offended by, and he asks her to back off. At which point she stops the sex and continues to call him a loser, so he gathers the shreds of his dignity and is like, "fine, I guess I won't go to your match."

And that supposedly threw her off her game and caused the injury? I don't know, man. It seems to me that Tashi played herself here. The fight had nothing to do with what Art said, and everything to do with her not wanting to be hitched to a mediocrity.

What am I missing?

[all-inmoderation]

gonna admit, i was very convinced that patrick was in love with Art, but i wasnt very convinced of it the other way around. art just seemed head over heels and tunnel visioned onto Tashi. idk what do u guys think

[amorisxx]

Tashi really is tennis.

She’s the personification of tennis in the lives of Art and Patrick. She’s the competive sport that broke them apart and brought them back together years later.

Tennis (Tashi) makes them compete with each other for the first time that really matters at the Junior US Open.

Patrick wins the match, meaning that he wins Tennis (Tashi). Art is visibly jealous because he wants that relationship with Tennis as well.

Patrick has a long distance relationship with Tennis (Tashi) when he goes on tour. He slacks on discipline and doesn’t get a coach which creates distance and tension between him and Tennis (Tashi).

Art is closer to Tennis at Stanford.

He tries to sow seeds of doubt with Tashi which could be symbolic of him training to be better at Tennis than Patrick is.

But Patrick notices it when he comes to visit. He notices that Art is becoming a better player while training at Stanford.

Patrick isn’t upset. He says that’s what’s been missing from Art’s tennis—his desire for it.

Art is enthralled by Tennis and will do what he needs to in order to get Her.

When Patrick all but dismisses the idea of a coach, he effectively loses Tennis/Tashi. (The argument in her dorm)

From that point on, he’s always scrambling to get Tennis back in whatever way he can.

Meanwhile, Art makes a deal with Tennis. He agrees to dedicate his life to her. (He marries Tashi/Tennis.) He essentially falls in love with Tennis.

Art also places Tennis on a pedestal. One that Patrick does not necessarily. Tennis/Tashi is this almost divine concept for Art. He looks to Her for guidance.

Patrick loves Tennis as well, but he doesn’t have the same reverence for Her. (We see this with him saying that he’s Tashi’s peer and his casual references to her as a hot woman.)

When Art runs into Patrick in Atlanta for the first time since their falling out, he’s confronted with the possibility that Patrick might take Tennis from him. (He sees them talking and assumes they hooked up.)

However, this encounter between Patrick and Tennis doesn’t result in Art losing Her, as Art still goes on to marry Tashi/Tennis.

In 2019, we see Art depressed and in a strained relationship with Tennis. He fears he might lose Her if he admits he wants to retire.

Tennis brings Art and Patrick back together again with the challenger. (Tashi is the one to sign Art up for the challenger)

Patrick tries to make a deal with Tennis again, but his chances of success are slim now that he’s waited so long. (That’s why Tashi tells him he’d be better off shooting himself)

During the challenger, Patrick makes the first move by giving the signal. This allows them to finally let go of fighting over Tennis. They bask in their shared love for Tennis, causing Her to cheer when they embrace.

[soliloqueeer]

art, patrick, tashi & astrology

anyone else ever wonder what art, patrick, and tashi's big three are? no? well, i have.

(the stars wrote that they'd all be compatible in some way, but also drive each other insane).

art donaldson:

libra sun: charming, sociable, and diplomatic. values harmony and balance in their relationships and surroundings. has strong sense of justice and fairness, often striving to create peace and avoid conflict. very unsuspecting and unwilling to take the blame. has deep desire for beautiful things.

cancer rising: comes across as nurturing, sensitive, and intuitive. very caring and protective of their loved ones, often putting others' needs before their own. may appear reserved or cautious when first meeting people but are deeply loyal once they form a bond.

virgo moon: can lack self-confidence. content with living “regular”, unassuming lives. easily overwhelmed by pressure and stress. quite shy in love, easily intimidated on a sexual level, but they aim to please nonetheless.

patrick zweig:

leo sun: confident, charismatic, big personality - enjoys being the centre of attention. has a strong sense of pride but they may be perceived as conceited and self-absorbed. leadership comes naturally to them. craves approval and affection from others.

aquarius rising: unique, independent, forward-thinking. often seen as unconventional and may have a rebellious streak. can come across as sociable and friendly but may also appear detached or aloof. likes getting a rise out of others, are quietly provocative and irreverent.

pisces moon: deeply sensitive and strongly intuitive. very empathetic and perceptive of people and their emotions & inner-workings. they can be flaky and absent-minded. very idealistic - sometimes sees the world through rose-colored glasses.

tashi duncan:

aries sun: confident, energetic, assertive. natural leaders with a strong desire to take initiative and pursue their goals with enthusiasm and determination. often direct, courageous, and willing to take risks.

capricorn rising: presents themselves as disciplined, ambitious, and responsible. they ooze competence, and are very image-oriented. sets long-term goals and works diligently to achieve them. may come across as reserved, cautious or dead-pan.

scorpio moon: emotional life is intense, passionate, and deeply private. due to strong emotions, they have a deep need for emotional security and control. incredibly perceptive and intuitive - often able to see beneath the surface of situations and people. may be prone to secrecy and a desire for transformative experiences (i feel like this is why she cuts her hair at different stages of her life).

p.s. i know this is silly but really, to me, its just a fun way to analyze their characters.

[shenergyx]

okay, i ended up having to take this out of the tags and add my voice properly because yes yes yes.

i need the poly community to firmly put this ship on their back because people need to understand that even with proper healthy communication, the third person would always still end up involved.

Tashi fundamentally fucked their heads up ON SIGHT. even if Art/Pat was already established, they'd have to have THAT conversation - you know - the POLY conversation. of "hm - say - have you noticed how there's no air in the room when Tashi's in it? is that just me? or??"

because!!!!!! let's talk about the bi-erasure of thinking Art/Pat would've just been in gay love together if they weren't being repressed dumb dumbs.

naur babes. Naur.

Tashi throws a new center of gravity in their orbit and they are permanently fucked about it. like, who falls in love with Tashi first? who just wants to keep it casual with her because they're scared things will change? and do either of them even consider that Tashi actually cares? or have they objectified/deified her to a point where she can't properly get through?

BECAUSE understand that Tashi is not just blase whatever about them either. and it is THEM and not one or the other. When they approach her at the adidas party, she already knows EXACTLY who they are. she's been following their game, and she likes them together. How many people do you think approach her like that that she actually gives the time of day? When she agrees to go to the beach, it's already begun. When she actually shows up at the hotel, she knows exactly what she's after. She never wanted one or the other, it's BOTH of them. because they play fucking. good. tennis.

And I think there's just no version where any of them just let it be. Especially if Tashi never gets injured. after point of contact, someone's always texting someone, showing up at games unannounced, sending random gifts because "it made me think of you". And that's always going to be an emotional sexually charged mess. They're gonna have to talk about it.

Or not, and end up having random explosive fuck sessions across the nation every 5 years.

on that note it’s crucial to understand that there is no twosome from the challengers trio that could ever work. like patrick and art alone are repressed tashi and art alone are resentful tashi and patrick alone are toxic it simply does not work they always need the third to balance each other out this is is a throuple movie a threesome movie you’re literally not understanding

[letsduneit]

it's wild to me that people act as if chani's primary reason for leaving paul was bitterness about being a concubine like girl..... i promise that did not even register in her brain compared to the realization that paul had chosen to become her people's oppressor, to become her oppressor, to destroy the equality that was very foundation of their relationship. i promise her agency and her loyalty to her people, things which existed before paul and will exist after him, were more important to her than how "official" her relationship would be considered within a system she did not care about.

[mellxncollie]

Charles Rowland & Edwin Payne | Dead Boy Detectives 1.02

[futuremrscameron]

tashi reminds me of shauna from yellowjackets in the sense that she doesn’t love him but she definitely cares about him more than she allows herself to acknowledge or even feel cause the fact that she told him she’d leave him if he didn’t win but still held him until he fell asleep when he asked then left to ask patrick to throw the game? yes it was about not losing tennis but if that was all it was about she could’ve coached someone else someone better she cares about art and actually likes him. she’s fond of him. all those moments when they were in college when he’d say something and she’d look at him like she’s surprised that he gets what she means or has more depth to him than she thought and smiles, whether it’s platonic or familial or romantic or she’s just used to being with him or doesn’t want to hurt lily she cares and it’s why she asked patrick to throw the game.

[myrmidryad]

#there's some interesting stuff here but as a lifelong tennis nerd there's one thing that doesn't quite work for me #namely percentage tennis #percentage tennis isn't about holding back and being afraid #percentage tennis is when you play it safe and wait for (or hope that) your opponent makes a mistake #you make sure that your shots stay in the court so that if your opponent swings for a line and misses you win the point #it's much more calculated and strategic than simplt holding back #which does track with art's story #in that he waits for patrick to fuck up to get a shot with tashi #and tries to drive a wedge between them in the way that a player might hit a rally ball that sets up a potential error from their opponent #i agree that art is holding back (repression plus desperation for approval) but to say that he's just afraid is to do him a disservice #he's much snakier and more duplicitous than that lol #he's playing percentage tennis and waiting for his opponent (patrick) to fuck up #my thoughts as i see it at 1.15 am #challengers #i also think that patrick's comment about art just being really really good belies the fact that in-universe he has won six grand slams #on three different surfaces #that puts him in all-time great territory #that's only one less that venus williams or john mcenroe for example #and more than plenty of former world no.1s #like that man will have absolutely maxxed out his talent #thanks to tashi

@technotrousers with a better explanation of percentage tennis

[dukeofthomas]

I find the fact that the confrontation at the end of UTRH is often summarized as Jason asking Bruce to kill the Joker for him fascinating.

Because that's not what happened.

Jason holds a gun up to Joker's head, gives Bruce another, and tells him that if Bruce doesn't do something (shoot Jason), he will kill Joker.

Jason doesn't give the gun to Bruce so that he would shoot Joker. He isn't expecting Bruce to pull the trigger on the clown. He's asking Bruce to do nothing. To be inactive. Because that will still be a choice, and despite having done nothing, everybody clearly agrees that Bruce would still, at least in part, be responsible for Joker's death.

...And to me, this moment is a kind of- microcosm, of the rest of Jason's point. Because after being captured and carted off to Arkham, the villain will escape again, and will kill more people. The only way to truly prevent that from happening would be to kill them; Bruce refuses to do so, and I respect his right to choose such a thing for himself, but it is still a choice, and if we agree that Bruce's inaction during the confrontation would leave him at least partly responsible for the Joker's death, then we must also agree that his inaction in permanently preventing the Rogues from killing more people means he is also, partly, responsible for all of those deaths.

[notagarroter]

Challengers fans, I need to know: how much do you think the other tennis players knew or guessed about what was going on with Tashi, Art, and Patrick? Were the other pros all gossiping about their bedroom arrangements? What about the Stanford tennis team, did they know? Was there anyone in the crowd at the New Rochelle showdown who had some inkling of the history between these three, or were all the spectators totally baffled when the players started cursing and panicking and playing ~very oddly~ at a nominally insignificant challenger match?

[bryng]

please read this post this is not a joke

[itsquakey]

(Remember this was a valentines day challenge not a pride month one) Day fourteen goes the Metadede! Which is like, the ship in the western kirby fandom no thanks to the suspicious ways the games and other media portray their relationship.