#catalonian referendum

[useless-catalanfacts]

Hi! wikipedia is not being super helpful - I am curious about whether support for Valencian independence is similar to the support for Catalonian independence; I am just assuming that "Catalonian separatism" refers ONLY to Catalonia, not necessarily the other Catalan-speaking regions? is there any solidarity for independence movements between Valencia and Catalonia because of shared language? I have heard a lot about Catalonian separatism but I haven't ever really heard of Valencian separatism even though I am sure it exists.

thank you!

Hello!

Catalan independentism doesn't necessarily mean only Catalonia. Historically, it has meant all the Catalan Countries, often with a focus on the ones under Spanish rule of it's being done from those territories (Catalonia, the Valencian Country and the Balearic Islands being the focus) and pretty much all pro-independence organisations work in all the areas, not only Catalonia.

This is going to be a long answer, so I'll leave it under the "read more".

When you see Valencian pro-independence posters, pins, etc that have the map silhouette, you'll see this shape:

which is the shape of all the Catalan Countries, usually excluding L'Alguer (L'Alguer —the Catalan-speaking city in Sardinia, Italy— will be included when we're talking about language rights and cultural rights, but not about independence or political unity). That is, the shape you'll see includes the Valencian Country, Catalonia, la Franja, and the Balearic Islands (from Spain), Northern Catalonia (from France), and Andorra.

(Source of the examples: posters calling for pro-independence protests in València. 1. From Cartells PUA, year 1999. 2. From MDT, 2012. From endavant, 2019.)

You can search on Google images for "cartells independència València" and you'll find more. I also found this one where the silhouette is only the Valencian Country but in huge letters it says "Valencian Country. Catalan Countries" so, yeah, same thing.

The Catalan independence movement having a significant part dedicated to "Catalonia only" independence is quite recent and mostly due to strategic reasons. If you look at early to mid 20th-century independentist texts, you can find the word "Catalunya" ("Catalonia") is often being used for all the Catalan-speaking countries, because it was the terminology used at the time including in València (and even as late as Joan Fuster's early texts, that's the word being used). However, it doesn't necessarily mean only what we now understand as Catalonia proper. After the popularization of the term "Catalan Countries" by Valencian writers (especially Joan Fuster), that's what will be used and the word "Catalunya" will surely mean only Catalonia (whether it's all of Catalonia including Northern Catalonia or only the area that the Spanish administrative region system calls Catalonia —aka the Catalonia at the south of the Spanish-French border— will depend on the context, but for texts written in Southern Catalonia it will often mean the 2nd).

"Catalonia only" (or, at least, "Catalonia only, for now") only became majoritary in Catalonia's independence movement around 2010, when many new people in Catalonia joined the independence movement. New people were arriving who previously saw independence as a dream impossible to achieve or as a radical communist thing, but now were realising that it was the only possible solution to the repeated attacks from Spain. Then, Catalonia's independence movement quickly grew and gained so many followers that we were more than half the population at the very least in favour of a referendum. (Previously, right after the end of Franco's dictatorship, it was the Valencian Country where the Catalan independence movement was the strongest, which is why the right-wing created and pushed "blaverism", a Catalanophobic ideology aimed at dividing Valencians from the rest of the country and weakening the social movements and language use). At this point, Catalonia had such a strong independentist movement that its independence was finally a possible short-term goal. And, because of the way that European politics work, most people believed we could achieve it through democratic means; because every administrative region in Spain has a regional parliament and regional government, in Catalonia we voted for pro-independence politicians in our "regional" government, who would follow the necessary steps to organise a referendum and, if won, declare independence. However, at the same time the independence didn't have nearly as much support in the Valencian Country; in fact, in the previous decades, the right-wing had been very focused on encouraging Catalanophobia in the Valencian Country with "blaverism", and their chosen politicians clearly showed it. So it only made sense to focus on declaring independence for the place where the majority of its population wants it. The underlying idea was that, once we have an independent Catalonia established, the rest of Catalan Countries can hold their own referendums to decide if they want to join us, often with a union of federated states being brought up.

But this was very controversial at the time. I remember many people (the more left-wing anti-capitalist type, pretty much everyone in the CUP and related) were saying that we cannot leave Valencians and Balearics behind, we cannot save ourselves and leave them in suffering. There was also the fear that Catalonia declaring independence would cause retaliation from Spain against the other Catalan areas, the Basque Country and Galicia to strip them from more language rights and regional governance to make sure they couldn't follow our path. There was the chant "sense València no hi ha independència" (without València there is no independence), but slowly over time most of these groups came to agree that the best thing we can do for our brothers there is to declare Catalonia's independence to lead the way, show that it can be done and that a better country with more egalitarian and respectful ways of working is possible; and with the hardest part of the process already behind us, it will be easier for them to join us.

To sum up, Catalan independence nowadays can mean either Catalonia only (understood to be a real possibility in the short-term) or all the Catalan Countries (generally thought of as a longer-term project).

This is not to say that nobody wants a Valencia-only independent country. I'm sure there are people out there who want all kinds of things. But this is extremely minoritary. Valencian people are generally either one of the three: 1) in favour of the independence of the Catalan Countries (Valencia included), 2) follow the blaverist idea of Valencian regionalism as a Spanish identity, or 3) directly full Spanish nationalism.

However, blaverism sometimes backfired in a strange way and made a few people really hate Catalans but still love their land, and you'll find a few people who defend Valencian rights in a very isolationist way while still believing the blaverist conspiracy theories or pseudohistory to justify its separation from the rest of the Catalan Countries. So I'm sure you can find some people who argue for a Valencia-only independent state, but it's going to be a handful of people and it's not an organized political movement comparable to Catalan Countries independence movement.

Thank you for your interest. I hope this answers your question; if not, please feel free to ask again!

[mariacallous]

CHEMNITZ, Germany—Werner enthusiastically waved a white, red, and blue Russian tricolor flag—with the added imperial crest of the tsars—as we talked outside the former Stasi headquarters of what was once Karl Marx City, now Chemnitz, in eastern Germany.

“The current German state is worse than what we had during communist times, and America, not [Russian President Vladimir] Putin, is the true evil of this world,” he said, aggressively thrusting his finger in my face, our conversation eavesdropped on by a giant statue of Marx. 

A retired bricklayer in his 70s, Werner might be expected to have mellowed with age. He’s old enough to have been briefly interrogated by the Stasi in the 1980s and to remember his father, a former Nazi soldier, returning disheveled from Soviet imprisonment in the 1950s. But none of that has stemmed his apparent sympathy for Russian imperialism, nor his anger at the West. 

“German reunification benefited only the West Germans, and Germany should leave us Saxons alone,” he said. “Germany should also leave Putin alone, as it was far worse to Russia in World War II than Putin is to Ukraine now.” 

Meet the Free Saxons movement. Werner has been attending every Monday rally of the secessionist right-wing monarchist movement that seeks to restore the kingdom of Saxony, which historically never had much weight beyond its own borders during its 112-year existence that ended with World War I. And like much of the German political fringe, it finds curious common ground with Putin’s Russia.

The Russian president has exerted influence over East German attitudes toward Russia since he arrived in Dresden, Saxony’s regional capital, on his first posting as a young KGB agent in the mid-1980s. His foreign assignment in East Germany came to an abrupt end on Dec. 5, 1989, when demonstrators occupied the Stasi headquarters. Another crowd rushed to the nearby KGB office where he had a close encounter as they came close to storming the building. His subsequent calls to the Red Army for protection and reinforcements were met with silence, something Putin has never forgiven or forgotten.

In perhaps his most famous quote, Putin told the Russian parliament in 2005 that the collapse of the USSR was the “greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the [20th] century.” To him, it was an experience of personal humiliation. In 1990, he returned with his young family to his hometown of Leningrad, now St. Petersburg, where he claimed to have had to drive a taxi to make ends meet, before landing a more lucrative gig as the serial president, sometimes prime minister, of Russia.

But almost 40 years later he still finds receptive ears in the former Soviet satellite where a curious alliance of elements from across the political spectrum has voiced sympathy or support for his invasion of Ukraine. A survey conducted last October suggests that 40 percent of Germans fully or partially believe that NATO provoked Russia into invading Ukraine; that number increases to 59 percent in provinces that were once part of communist East Germany. Saxony, East Germany’s most populous federal state, falls slap bang in the middle of that anti-NATO heartland. 

In his vendetta against the West, Putin has sought to erode Western liberal democracies and the Euro-Atlanticist compact, boosting destabilizing political candidates and supporting local separatist groups regardless of their ideological alignment. Russian disinformation campaigns have been linked to, among other events, the election of Donald Trump to the presidency of the United States, the Scottish and Catalonian independence referendums, and Brexit.

Here in Chemnitz, it seems that Saxony is next on the list. 

On a camping table set up next to Werner, political brochures and stickers called for an alliance between Saxony and Russia. There were flags of the historical Kingdom of Saxony and calls for “Säxit”—à la Brexit—far-reaching autonomy from Germany or even Saxony’s secession. 

The Free Saxons, while nominally preoccupied with regional secessionism, offer a broad church of pro-Russian sentiment that has variously united far-right extremists, Soviet nostalgics, and marginalized anti-government cranks who rant about everything from vaccines to 5G to the war in Ukraine.

“Saxony has always had a public opinion different from the rest. We want good relations with Russia. No weapons for Ukraine,” said Michael Brück, a Free Saxons spokesman who sees the war in Ukraine as one between “Slavic peoples” and one in which Germany has no business.

“The people here think of [Ukrainian President Volodymyr] Zelensky as an actor, a criminal, and a puppet of the United States. Putin is his counterpart. He stands up to U.S. imperialism. Most people here are anti-U.S. Here in Saxony, the people remember the Dresden firebombing [in early 1945, a joint Royal Air Force and U.S. Army Air Forces operation]. For the people here, the Americans are warmongers.”

That history, plus decades of economic deprivation, sowed the seeds of dissent and even radicalism in Saxony. Notably, it was a member of the Saxon-Thuringia aristocracy who planned an attempted coup in Germany in 2022. Prince Heinrich XIII Reuss joined with the Reichsbürger—a far-right imperial revivalist movement—in its attempt to overthrow the government. The plot was uncovered in December when prosecutors arrested 25 Reichsbürger plotters, including Reuss and current and former security service members. The putsch was derided for its grandiose ambition and dead-on-arrival failure. But it was a sobering reminder of the resurgence of the German far right and its apparent willingness to commit violent revolutionary acts. The killing of two police officers in January 2022 was also tied to the Reichsbürger, while in April 2022 a Reichsbürger member tried to kill several police officers while they attempted to execute a search warrant for the illegal possession of firearms. The ringleader, Reuss, reportedly celebrated the 2022 Russia National Day in Russia’s consulate general in Leipzig.

As Russia did with the Trump campaign and Brexit, Saxony has become a target of pro-Russian messaging and misinformation, which flourishes in a post-truth media landscape.

“Nobody believes the [mainstream] media here. If the German media says tomorrow it is going to be sunny, we Saxons will put our raincoats on. That’s why people turn to Telegram,” a social media platform widely used in Russia and Ukraine, Brück said.

Since the government enforced closure of the Russia Today (RT) operation in Germany, Kremlin sympathizers have tuned in to Russian-linked independent media and influencers. “Anti-Spiegel,” a play on German newspaper Der Spiegel, is run by Thomas Röper, a German blogger living in St. Petersburg, a Kremlin-loyal peddler of disinformation, conspiracy theories, and Russian propaganda. Russian media reports are also translated and published for a German audience. It has 110,000 Telegram subscribers. Another German blogger, Alina Lipp—a former German language correspondent for RT—plays an important role chirruping Russian propaganda to her 196,000 Telegram subscribers. Her widest-reaching posts reportedly receive over 2 million views. 

Their messages are finding their mark. In February, the Berlin-based Center for Monitoring, Analysis, and Strategy (CeMAS) released a paper on the role of Russian disinformation in Germany, finding that between the spring and autumn of 2022, approval of pro-Russian propaganda narratives increased significantly, especially in the east. 

Putin’s disinformation warriors have coincided with the rise of anti-technocratic movements on both sides of the ideological divide, a boon to those in Moscow looking to destabilize the centrist consensus that has dominated German politics for decades. The hard-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) party has within a year doubled its average poll numbers, riding a wave of populist outrage over immigrants and energy prices. The AfD, whose delegations occasionally visit Moscow, wants to dissolve the EU, strengthen Germany’s individual national military posture at the expense of Germany’s NATO engagement, and end all sanctions against Russia.

Recent national polling put the AfD at 22 percent, ahead of the ruling Social Democratic Party, and trailing only the conservative Christian Democratic Union, at 27 percent. In several eastern states, the AfD polls above 30 percent and has grabbed one mayorship and one district administrator post. 

The AfD, like many others in the east, has a big crush on the Kremlin. A regional legislator, Hans-Thomas Tillschneider, founded an association called East Wind, seeking to forge closer ties with Russia. He tried to visit Russian-occupied territory in eastern Ukraine late last year, before even AfD leadership balked at the optics. Tillschneider has said before that Russia was the liberator of Germany in World War II, unlike the United States. 

“There are still tens of thousands American soldiers occupying our country,” he said, referring to U.S. troops who have spent decades there as part of NATO’s defense against that very same Russia. “The USA wants to make us pawns on the Ukrainian battlefield to expand its ‘rainbow [LGBT] empire.’”

The German far right loves that kind of talk. But the German left is on board, too, reasoning that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. The Alliance for Peace in Brandenburg holds vigils on leftist outrage topics, like the bombing of Hiroshima in 1945 or NATO nuclear drills, and lobbies against Western arms deliveries to Ukraine. Dominik Mikhalkevich, the Alliance’s Belarus-born spokesman, said NATO drills are escalatory and Germany’s defense mandate should be just to protect its own territory.

“Sanctions against Russia should be dropped, as sanctions always play in the wrong hands,” Mikhalkevich said. “I am from Belarus, a country where Western sanctions have always caused the opposite they were designed to achieve, as illustrated by [Belarusian President Aleksandr] Lukashenko still being around.”

Much like what happened in the United States, the special trick with Russian misinformation is how it manages to appeal to both the far right and the far left. German rightists love—and cite—Russia’s gripes about alleged Ukrainian oppression of Russian speakers in the country’s east and south and its claimed defense of white Christian European culture, said Jakub Wondreys, of the Hannah Arendt Institute for the Research on Totalitarianism in Dresden. Yet they are curiously quiet about Russia’s claims to be “de-Nazifying” Ukraine, for obvious reasons.

The left, meanwhile, is happy to ape Putin’s anti-NATO rhetoric but overlooks his social conservatism. “Both sides are cherry-picking their arguments from the Russian disinformation campaign,” Wondreys said.

But Germany’s left, split between Putin supporters and opponents, is in free fall. It’s the right that is ascendant. An AfD win in the next parliamentary election in 2025 could turn Germany into a big Hungary, said Wolfgang Muno, a political scientist at the University of Rostock. Hungary under Prime Minister Viktor Orban is Russia’s Trojan horse inside the European Union, consistently backing Moscow while blocking Brussels’s efforts to impose sanctions or wean off Russian energy.

“We can see what happens when Putin lackeys rule in Hungary,” Munro said. If the AfD joins a ruling coalition, he said, sanctions on Russia, and perhaps large-scale German arms deliveries to Ukraine such as Leopard tanks, would be on the chopping block, and Putin would get a lifeline.

[fnord888]

I assume you heard about the Catalonia independence referendum and Spain's reaction a few years back, including the arrest of several Catalonian politicians and several others fleeing the country. I don't know if you've followed subsequent events, but several of fugitive and jailed politicians won elections as members of the European Parliament for Spain, and there's since been a legal kerfuffle about their eligibility for that office and the parliamentary immunity that goes with it.

Which is to say, while I agree the US constitution has a number of significant flaws, I think you're overstating the degree to which issues like this are unique to the US.

If you are interested in an example of what I mean by the US constitutional system being antiquated, here is a nice summary thread of how Trump's indictment for jeapordizing national security and nuclear secrets, amoung other things, legally affects his campaign:

Since the investigation is unlikely to result in a conviction before the election, once elected since it is a federal case Trump, as head of the DoJ, can simply toss out the charges against himself

If Trump is convicted, if he isnt jailed it doesnt impact his ability to serve as President

If he is somehow jailed, he can submit a writ petition to be released from jail to serve as president which all precedent says would be granted

As President, Trump might actually be able to pardon himself for his own crimes because you need 'standing' to challenge actions legally and since its his own crimes he is his own other party, so that person might not exist

Finally, even if he was convicted of treason due to 1/6, it likely would not bar him from being president under the 14th amendment due to wording there about being an 'officer'

Additionally, since the terms for being President are defined by the constitution, congress cannot change them without a constitutional amendment.

But I actually have a final point; most of this is a *probably*. These would be decided, on the fly, after the election, by individual courts like SCOTUS. If you, for idk some reason or another, wanted to know if someone running for President was going to be a convicted criminal serving his term from a jail cell or not, the *only option* you have is to fuck around and find out. We are legally barred from determining how the system will function ahead of the question.

Other systems individually face issues like this - is the executive the head of the judiciary? A common-enough setup. Its the confluence of them, of how neatly the system has aligned to just fall apart on the question of justice for someone sufficiently politically powerful - which was by design, an intent to make a 'weak center'.

There are tradeoffs in systems, and this is not an example of that; its a full break.

[creatiview]

[ad_1] “Spanish authorities must conduct a full, fair, and effective investigation into these allegations, publish the findings and stop any unlawful interference into the fundamental rights of the Catalan minority activists in Spain,” they said in a statement. Top leaders arrested Following the October 2017 independence referendum, Spain arrested leaders of the Catalonian independence movement on charges of sedition.  The alleged spying occurred between that year and 2020, with most incidents taking place soon after the vote. Mobile phones of at least 65 Catalan politicians and activists were reportedly hacked using Pegasus and Candiru spyware.  Victims included members of the European Parliament, legislators, jurists, and civil society representatives, according to the experts. Sophisticated spying programme Pegasus spyware was created by the NSO Group, an Israeli cyber-intelligence firm that develops technology to help governments prevent and detect threats, according to its website.  Spain’s national intelligence agency reportedly became one of the company’s customers, the Human Rights Council-appointed experts said. They were particularly concerned by the extent and sophistication of the alleged spying programme, noting that those targeted had not engaged in violent activities. Furthermore, they warned that widespread use of such spyware may lead to increased self-censorship, which has a chilling effect on human rights, including those of minorities. Customized text messages Reports indicate that many victims were targeted through SMS-based attacks, where they received text messages containing malicious links designed to trick them. “The sophistication and personalisation of the messages varied across attempts, but reflect a detailed understanding of the target’s habits, interests, activities, and concerns,” said the experts. “In many cases, either the timing or the contents of the text were highly customised to the targets and indicated the likely use of other forms of surveillance on them,” they added.  Victims also were targeted using highly personalised official notifications from Spanish government entities, including tax and social security authorities.  “For example, a message sent to one victim included a portion of his actual official tax identification number, suggesting that the attackers had access to this information,” they said.  Moratorium on spyware The experts wrote to the Spanish Government in October 2022. In a reply that December, the authorities reported that investigations were ongoing and said they could not pronounce on cases that were pending judicial investigation. “We are looking forward to the outcomes of the ongoing judicial investigation,” the UN experts said. “We further wish to reiterate our call for a global moratorium on the sale and transfer of surveillance technology, until robust regulations are in place that guarantee its use in compliance with international human rights standards,” they added, urging Spain to join.  About UN Rapporteurs The UN independent experts who issued the statement are Fernand de Varennes, Special Rapporteur on minority issues; Clément Nyaletsossi Voule, Special Rapporteur on freedom of peaceful assembly and of association, and Irene Kahn, Special Rapporteur on freedom of opinion and expression. Special Rapporteurs work on a voluntary basis and serve in their individual capacity. They are not UN staff and are not paid for their work.  [ad_2] Source link

[cryptosecrets]

Rights experts call for probe into claim Catalan leaders were spied on — Global Issues

“Spanish authorities must conduct a full, fair, and effective investigation into these allegations, publish the findings and stop any unlawful interference into the fundamental rights of the Catalan minority activists in Spain,” they said in a statement.  Top leaders arrested  Following the October 2017 independence referendum, Spain arrested leaders of the Catalonian independence movement on…

[gamegill]

Rights experts call for probe into claim Catalan leaders were spied on — Global Issues

“Spanish authorities must conduct a full, fair, and effective investigation into these allegations, publish the findings and stop any unlawful interference into the fundamental rights of the Catalan minority activists in Spain,” they said in a statement.  Top leaders arrested  Following the October 2017 independence referendum, Spain arrested leaders of the Catalonian independence movement on…

[marketingstrategy1]

Rights experts call for probe into claim Catalan leaders were spied on — Global Issues

“Spanish authorities must conduct a full, fair, and effective investigation into these allegations, publish the findings and stop any unlawful interference into the fundamental rights of the Catalan minority activists in Spain,” they said in a statement.  Top leaders arrested  Following the October 2017 independence referendum, Spain arrested leaders of the Catalonian independence movement on…

[cultapprop]

The EU on Turkey:

The EU on Spain:

[bowlerhatwearer]

Um, why is the Spanish Police violent against their own people?

Why are trying to stop a referendum with force and hurt people?

That won’t stop them, they will try it again, violence will make their attempt to seperate Catalonia even stronger.

If somone is from Spain, could they inform me what’s going on.

Thank you and stay safe.

[no-passaran]

The Spanish government has recognised they spent 87 million euros (106.4 million dollars) to stop the referendum on Catalan independence.

The Spanish government sent thousands of Spanish military policemen to Catalonia to stop the Catalan citizens from voting to decide the future of our country, because the Spanish government knew that yes to independence was going to win. The military police violently attacked the voters in numerous schools (where we vote). They wounded 1.066 people, including elders, people trying to get to an ambulance, and nurses attending the wounded. By the way, Spain gave an award to those policemen, saying they behave exemplarily, and are giving them a pay rise.

If you look on YouTube, you can find many videos where you can see some of the attacks. You can see how all the people who gathered in front of voting centers to defend them from the police are raising their hands as a sign of non-violence, and chanting “we want to vote” and “we are peaceful people”.

87 MILLION EUROS to stop people from voting peacefully? Yes, and they didn’t even achieve that. We voted. And 90% voted yes to independence.

The Spanish government spent 63 million euros (77 million dollars) in buying Latvia’s silence on Catalonia through army resources.

And not to begin to talk about the endless extreme corruption cases of the Spanish government…

And, surprisingly (lol nope), Spain can’t even pay the retirement to its citizens who have been paying taxes all their lives in order to get this payment.

[holomoriarty]

Something really rotten happened today in Spain and I've been trying to avoid the issue all day, and I'm so tired

[asitrita]

I think Arán (Val d’Aran) is planning on leaving Catalonia as well lol. 

[septictankie]

[arituzz]

it fucking pains me to see all this catalanophobia

[justinssportscorner]

Gareth Platt at TalkRadio.co.uk: 

Of all the manifold aspects of the Catalan debate, the least significant is, paradoxically, the most far-reaching. Because, despite having no real importance to most most people's lives, it will touch more people worldwide than practically any other.

What will happen to FC Barcelona, one of the crown jewels of European football? Will the club be able to remain in La Liga, and maintain that famed and hugely lucrative rivalry with Real Madrid? And will it be able to keep playing in the Champions League, or be forced to endure years on the sidelines?

Well the answer to both questions is pretty complicated. But, in essence, it boils down to the will of the Spanish football federation, and the Spanish government. They can make things very easy for Barca, or very difficult.

Under Spanish law, only those teams based in Spain can compete in the country's football leagues - with the exception of clubs in the tiny country of Andorra, which borders Spain and has its own agreement.

In theory, Barca and other Catalan clubs can seek their own Andorra-style agreement with Spain. But there's an obvious difference here: Andorra's independence long predates the creation of organised professional football. The Spanish government, and its sporting federations, have never faced the prospect of 'losing' Andorra like it would lose Catalonia if the region breaks from Spain. And so there's no incentive to punish Andorra for its independence.

Then there's the size of the two regions. Andorra is only a quarter the size of London and has a handful of sports teams, whereas Catalonia would be a large country, and it boasts over 12,000 teams. As well as Barca, the region provides two clubs to the top division of Spanish football (Espanyol and Girona) and three more to the second division (Barca B, Reus and Nastic).

Given the proliferation of teams representing Catalonia in football and other sports, it's unclear whether Spain, or its sporting federations, would be willing to pass special legislation granting all of them access. Such a move could make Spain look weak in any post-secession discussions and incur the wrath of those who wish to punish Catalonia for its temerity.

On the other hand, there's the economic argument to consider. El Clasico, the biannual match between Real Madrid and Barcelona, is one of the biggest matches on Earth, drawing billions of viewers and huge revenue. Without Barca in the league, Spain's La Liga would be far less competitive, and sponsors would be far less willing to invest.

Were Spain to decide that the pros of retaining the Catalan clubs are outweighed by the cons and reject their application, Barca's future appears far more murky. Catalonia would have to create its own national football federation, jumping through the various loopholes laid out by football's world governing body, Fifa.

In this case, Barca fans would potentially have to wait years before Fifa approved the Catalan federation. When Gibraltar applied for membership it took five years for Fifa to grant recognition, allowing the new members to put out teams in international football as well as European club competition.

[arango54321]

Nana Assata Sakur on Revolution @Regranned from @august_third_collective_napla - @haki_kweli_shakur #SelfDetermination “ I imagined everything from cities called Malcolmville and New Lumumba to a reception for revolutionary leaders around the world at the Black House. I liked the idea of a Black Nation. My mind spaced out on the idea and in a minute I was imagining Red, Black, and Green buses 🚌 , Apartment Buildings with African motifs , Black Television 📺 Shows And Movies 🎥 that reflected the real quality of Black Life rather than the real quality of white racism! “ - Assata #AssataShakur #HandsoffAssata #newafrikans #puertoricans #mexicans #hawaiians #westpapua #kurdistan #catalonian #biafra #catalonia #kurdish #NewYork #NewJersey #Delaware #Detroit #Milwaukee #Baltimore #WashingtonDC #Atlanta #Houston #lasvegas #sovereignty #plebiscite #referendum #newafrikan77wordpress #eminem #thestruggleizforlandleearango123 #repost @leearango123 (@get_repost ) (at West Kendall)