#captain america: civil war critical

[lokigodofaces]

cacw and dsmom are such good movies except for when they aren't

[gay-jewish-bucky]

imagine thinking ca:cw existed for a reason that wasnt an rdj tantrum that forced them to scrap cap 3 which was supposed to be focused on steve, bucky and sam, and instead make into ironman 4🤣🤣🤣

[captainwidowspring]

An excerpt from my Captain America music paper, for I just made a seriously disgusting discovery:

"The other appearance of the breaking-up-of-the-Avengers theme is during the Siberia fight, where it is played twice. The first time it plays is when Friday tells Tony, “You can’t beat [Steve] hand to hand,” and it continues as Tony tells Friday to analyze his fight pattern and she does it, up until Friday says, “Countermeasures ready,” and Tony grabs Steve’s shield. The second time it plays is shortly after Steve disables Tony’s suit, and shortly before Steve, exhausted and injured, slides off Tony’s suit and onto the ground; this plays until Steve helps Bucky off the ground and starts to walk away with him. Now, as the previous use of the Avengers-breakup theme helps show that Civil War was more of an Avengers movie than a Cap movie, this use actually happens to show how the film is more of an Iron Man movie than either of those other two. For considering that the theme was obviously meant to have the most impact after Steve broke the arc reactor, the fact that it first shows up a little before then is quite notable: and when exactly it shows up is very revealing. It first appears when Tony does not exactly have the upper hand (though Steve is doing no damage despite pummeling Tony’s suit), but then it stops when Friday allows Tony to get the upper hand over Steve and seriously hurt him, and then it resumes again when Steve is able to thwart Tony and disable his suit.

Such use of the music that symbolizes the Avengers team splintering seems to be the movie implying that if Tony had won the fight, whatever fracture the Avengers were experiencing would be less severe, but it is solidified now that Steve won the fight. Now, this is very much not true, as the entire Siberia fight was literally Tony trying to kill Bucky because he was upset, while Bucky tried to avoid this and Steve defended Bucky: and while Tony did some really despicable things throughout the movie, successfully killing Bucky and/or Steve while he was having a temper tantrum is something he would never be able to come back from. But considering the lengths the movie went to to try to make it seem like Tony was justified in doing this and not acting monstrously, it is not surprising that these fraudulent efforts extended to the music. And curiously, the Avengers-breakup theme does not play when Tony provokes Steve into dropping the shield, even though that is much more symbolic of the Avengers breaking up than Steve preventing Tony from killing him and Bucky. But that, too, might have painted Tony in a bad light, and the movie avoided such a thing at all costs. Civil War is seriously messed up."

Truly, the more one examines this mockery of a Captain America film, the more it becomes clear just how thoroughly rotten this movie is, and how it is most definitely not Cap 3.

[ironspidersblog]

Tony: hey so I’m really upset you kept the secret of my parents death and their killer from me. I get he’s your friend but I would’ve just liked to of known

Cap:

[musclesandhammering]

On Narrative Bias

I keep saying it annoys me how Wanda has done so many evil ass things and is never held accountable for her actions, and it never fails that someone tries to respond with “but aren’t you a loki stan? He’s done evil shit too! So you have a double standard and are a misogynist!!!!” Yeah, no. The difference is that you can clearly tell who the writers have predetermined as a hero vs a villain. You can tell who they want you to root for. Loki’s actions are given narrative consequences as harsh as possible, while Wanda’s are narratively excused and softened and sympathised. Let me show you what I mean.

* Loki commits treasons, tries to kill his brother & attempts genocide -> Loki’s father rejects him while he attempts suicide

* Loki tries to conquer earth -> Loki is sentenced to life in prison

* Loki incapacitates the king and secretly takes the throne -> Loki is threatened with a hammer to the face, we’re reminded how awful he is by all the other characters for the rest of the movie & he would’ve faced more consequences if the apocalypse hadn’t interrupted

* Loki steals the tesseract from the vault -> Loki watches his brother be tortured & then has his neck snapped

Now compare that to…

* Wanda willingly signs up to work for a nazi organisation, tries to help an evil robot murder the avengers, intentionally sets the hulk loose on a town of innocent people, & helps destroy Sokovia for a lil while -> Wanda gets a fatherly pep talk from Clint & is immediately accepted as an Avenger

* Wanda accidentally murders a bunch of people while on a mission -> Wanda is put on temporary house arrest in a giant mansion with her boyfriend

* Wanda buries her boyfriend/teammate under like 10 floors of concrete, breaks out of house arrest, & goes against a government order -> the leader of the superhero team defends her, a grown ass woman, by saying “She’s just a kid!”, she’s detained in a government prison for like a week maybe (?) during which she’s shown as a sad helpless victim to encourage sympathy from viewers, & then she gets busted out by the ex-team leader & eventually gets to run off to Scotland with her boyfriend

* Wanda holds an entire town hostage & tortures them just to fulfil her own grief-fuelled fantasy -> one of the women Wanda attacked reassures her that she’s the actual victim in all this and that the people she tortured just have no idea what she’s sacrificed for them & she escapes to an isolated location to read a forbidden demon book and make herself more powerful without anyone interfering

* Wanda goes on a serial killing spree across the multiverse, kidnaps a child, holds her hostage, tortures her, & attempts to take her powers all so she can steal another Wanda’s children because she misses her children that were never actually real in the first place -> Wanda gets some badass power sequences and #girlboss one liners, is the one that destroys the demon book, essentially saving the multiverse from future corruption, & is allowed to die a hero’s death (which we all know isn’t permanent)

See the difference?

[weregonnabecoolbeans]

By the way I am on both sides at the end of CA: Civil War.

I can understand Tony in the moment losing his mind over the winter soldier having killed his parents.

But like, I also think it’s insane that he thought his “friendship” with Steve is even remotely close to the same level as his with Bucky.

And also Bucky was innocent so…

[whitoknighto]

CACW never made sense to me. Like you are a team of superheroes run by the government. A secret agency, but still the government. Now there is the accord that is making them bound to the government.

You already were????

And I understand that it would be a big deal for cap to go independent. But the point was the accords. What it would change, honestly? What does this have to do with Bucky killing Tony Stark's parents???

Forgive me if I misunderstood, but I only watched this movie on the cinemas when it was released (2016) and since then I only got recaps by the fandom (that can be biased).

[hersheysmcboom]

Am I the only one who’s starting to think Tony stark has become a plot vortex

[this-is-chaos-magick]

Hi I am rambling about that red magic lady again sorry for the bad English

I can't stop thinking about Wanda and the. 'Lagos incident'

Like she's trying to save people...and yes she did... She saved those People who are on the ground, she saved Steve...she literally saves so many people that day and People still blame her for the incident....Brock Rumlow is the one carrying the bomb, Rumlow is the one who detonated the bomb....yet people blame it on her because of an accident, she did not mean to throw that bomb on the building she's trying to throw it in the sky...I mean the whole place is surrounded by people....where the hell did people expecting her to throw it? And also the bomb exploded already on the ground when Rumlow pressed the button... it's a miracle that she caught it... Do you people really think that she would throw a bomb in a building full of people?? did y'all see how she reacted after that happened?

God...her reaction when it exploded she must've felt so horrible that day, she try to do a good thing and she messed up...

I hate the fact that people blame Wanda on the 'Lagos incident' when it's Rumlow's fault...it makes me so sad that Wanda just accepted it...RAhHHhhhHh I am just so irritated...she did a good thing that day...she SAVES LIVES she did that with good intent.. It pissed me off that people put Lagos in the "horrible" things Wanda had done it pissed me off when people used Lagos 'prove' that Wanda is a 'bad' person..I fucking hate it when people acts like it's Wanda's fault that Bomb exploded I m gonna bite people I am gonna bite Thaddeus Ross I am gonna bite everyone that believe that Wanda did that with bad intention

[therese-lokidottir]

Btw why every single fan fiction I seeing (not all but many) is Tony stans? I meant they always put Tony in good light and 'oh poor baby' and worst of it they make other characters be worst and top of it is steve

Now, everyone have free will to writing what they want but come on, it's getting annoying. Specially it's so clear Tony is never good person, sure he have his good moments but the rest? He not nice to he so called close friends and lover

And Steve? Please just because he is a soldier didn't meant he is bad, I meant sure American soldiers and soldiers generally have bad reputation, but Steven prove it he more just a soldier, he is a man.

Also it's kind bothering me while this issue never been showing it but Steve is quite religius person and Tony is atheist. And now I am no want make some kind hateful comments but I feel little bit got insulted by it.

I meant if you have religion didn't make you good person but well they make Steve like that and hate him sound like imply something

I don't think Tony Stark is bad. I think he is a wonderfully complex character when written well when written within his film series. But then Civil War happened and then the MCU Spider-Man movies had to make the choices that they made.

In the original Iron Man film Tony is egotistical, he is selfish and he is a complete mess but he is still a man with a heart. He is genuinely remorseful for what his weapons have done and he wants to change and do good. Tony is a man who struggles with his ego and with being vulnerable. He has trouble letting down those walls even to his best friends who have stood by him through so much, he's still scared.

In the Iron Man films, those were flaws Tony needed to learn from. Tony needed to learn and grow and you do see that. But then CA: CW didn't quite get that. Tony does have compassion, he does have sympathy for people. But in CA: CW it's more about guilt than it is about responsibility and self-reflection. He gets called out but some mom, but was this not something Tony Stark was struggling with? Was he not already giving to the relief efforts?

People can argue that Steve was doing wrong things in CA: CW, he was breaking laws regardless of the accords, but Tony consciously does things that question if the accords have any legitimacy in the first place. He uses an untrained 15-year-old for backup without giving them full details of the situation and lying to their legal guardian. Tony's team initiates the fight and causes collateral damage because he's permitted to do so. Lastly, he ends up snapping and trying to murder someone and he never has to face repercussions for that, legal ones I mean. He's pushing for the accords while it's clear he doesn't have to abide by why they are supposed to be there.

Contrasting all that to Steve desperately trying to help his friend, consoles someone facing eminence guilt, and allows others to leave without judgment while giving them the full story, does make Steve seem a lot nicer and more human. Bucky was brainwashed, abused, and used by Hydra and the reason they could do that was because Howard Stark used Hydra members to build S.H.I.E.L.D. All because he thought it was acceptable to for the sake of protecting the world.

The problem with Tony's "mentorship" of Peter is he treats Peter more like a project than someone who is their own independent person he's meant to be guiding and pointing in the right direction. Of course, there is the metatextual problem of shifting from billionaires the bad guys to working-class bad guys in the franchise about the hero who is usually the working-class street-level hero.

The MCU really seemed to forget Tony was an ass he needed to be better. He ends up never learning and the MCU seemed to forget Tony's ego was both bad and annoying, and also kind of a coping mechanism and cover Tony was using to deal with his issues.

[jasontoddsmommyissues]

Society if Tony Stark wasn’t in Cap 3

[sea-owl]

So I'm rewatching the Marvel movies and I just finished Captain America: civil war and I was wondering about you opinion of the movie?

Oh that can of worms. Okay before I start know this is just my opinion and that's okay if your's differ from mine. Just be respectful or you will get the block button.

So my opinion on Civil War, short answer, I deeply dislike it and will never watch it on my own free will again. The only saving grace for me with that movie is the good angst hut/comfort fics the fandom has written after.

Long answer I don't like it for many reasons, narratively being a big part of it actually. I believe the MCU jumped the gun for Civil War. They put it in too soon without doing the work for all the needed buildup for it. I believe they chose the wrong directors for this movie and I 100% believe this should not have been a Captain America movie.

In my opinion this movie was made too soon. One of the core plot points for Civil War in any rendition is that it's a break up between two people that is so bad and so strong it divides an entire community. Those two people for Civil War is Steve and Tony, which the MCU had neglected working up their relationship to pull Civil War that soon. The outside conflict was there, you could see the outside tension rising with each moving but the dynamics of Steve and Tony, hell all of the Avengers was not. Had they wanted to do this in the time frame they did there needed to be crossovers from the two characters into each other's franchise. The audience needed to see them actually liking each other and the movies building up on that and the other Avengers' relationships as a team. Hell even a mini series that connected to the movies to give us those bonding moments would have helped.

Like many others I also believe this should never have been a Captain America movie, it should have been an Avengers movie. Right off the bat it's gonna try to frame Steve in the right which no. If you want to pull this divide off you need to have the narrative neutral or both Steve and Tony need to be right and wrong. They are both two sides to this fight, and personally both should be held accountable to what happens during and after. Which leads me into the directors, the Russo brothers should not have been the directors. By their own admittance they do not like Tony, they are Cap fanboys, and had they had their way Tony would have died in this movie. This type of plot is not meant for a singular franchise character it is an ensemble plot, and you would need a director who knows how to work an ensemble cast and in my own opinion neutral to both sides. Neither Steve or Tony should have been framed as all the way right or all the way wrong. The politics to this movie is actually very complicated without even adding on the whole Bucky side plot.

Speaking of the side plot, it felt kinda unnecessary and was added for Steve's pain/a way to tie up his brainwashing healing (at least the commands) in a nice little bow. I always say Bucky came back too soon and I still hold that belief. Should've kept him a shadow for a while and maybe saved him for Sam. Sam's cap arch is already doing more for Bucky's character than Steve's ever did.

And since I know this will probably be a follow up question, my opinion on the Accords is that I'm pretty neutral. Yes as they stood amendments were defiantly needed for it, but also the Avengers really had no accountability. The group that was supposed to hold them accountable, SHIELD, was gone. In the eyes of the public they were a loose canon. I don't blame other countries not wanting this American based military like group coming into my home, fucking shit up, and then dipping out. The whole situation needed compromise, but since this is Steve's movie and Steve doesn't know compromise if it bit him in the ass it's not framed that way. Despite the fact we have whole scene in the movie where Steve was proving these people's fears right.

What do I know though, I think the movie is a mess and if I had my way I'll never watch it again.

[captainwidowspring]

On Nico's Ability to Defend Himself

An often-overlooked aspect of Nico's death scene in TFATWS is that there was literally nothing preventing him from thwarting John's attempt to kill him, and keeping it from being a death scene; he just didn't so that there would be a reason for the Captain America title to be stripped from John and given back to Sam. I feel like a major reason why a lot of people don't pick up on this fact, and instead perceive Nico to be defenseless (aside, of course, from the shamelessly manipulative framing) is that in the Siberia incident, the incident Nico's death scene is frequently compared to, Tony, after he lost the upper hand, didn't really get a chance to do much before Steve disabled his suit. It thus didn't stick out too badly when Nico also didn't do much before John attacked him with the shield, even though there was a lot more he could have done. Therefore, let's examine the two situations to see how they are different.

This is how the shield incident played out in Siberia. Near the end of the battle, Tony had managed to gain the upper hand and inflict serious damage on Steve. After Steve refused to stop defending Bucky, Tony prepared to straight up blow Steve out of the bunker and down the mountain: but right before he got the repulsor shot off, Bucky grabbed his leg. Irritated, Tony turned and kicked Bucky in the head with his metal boot. Then, before Tony had the chance to do anything else, Steve grabbed Tony and hoisted him into the air; Tony tried to use the jet packs on his boots to get out of the situation, but too much damage had been inflicted on them at that point for them to be of use, and Steve threw him to the ground. Steve then immediately rushed on top of Tony and punched his face mask three times out of sheer fury, after which he broke the helmet by hitting it twice more with his shield and then tore it off. He subsequently raised the shield, which caused Tony to frantically raise his arms to cover his face, and this allowed Steve to have a clear shot at the arc reactor, which he brought his shield down on and broke.

Now, considering how thoroughly biased Civil War is against Steve, and how much it sought to act like he was the one in the wrong—even though the entire Siberia fight was literally just Tony having a temper tantrum and Steve and Bucky trying to survive it—the creative team certainly wouldn't have minded if Tony had cried out in fear like Nico did, as it would be quite useful for the propaganda efforts. Therefore, there is clearly some reason why he didn't.

And it appears that there are two main reasons for this. The first reason seems to be that everything simply happened too fast. Indeed, the entire incident, from Tony preparing to shoot Steve to Steve disabling the arc reactor, took place in the span of about fifteen seconds. And Tony totally wasn't expecting Steve to grab him; presumably, he assumed that Steve was injured enough that taking his attention off him for a few seconds in order to kick his friend in the head wasn't a big deal. He underestimated the strength that poured into Steve's limbs when he saw Tony so callously abusing Bucky, as well as the fact that Steve is a supersoldier, so he can move really fast when he wants to.

So there was the element of surprise, and there was also the fact that Tony probably would have been a little stunned, both from the impact of being thrown to the ground, and from being hit in the head multiple times. It must, of course, be remembered that Tony was wearing a full-body metal suit, so no actual harm was inflicted upon him, but Steve is a supersoldier, so even with the layer of protection the impacts would certainly have been felt. These factors combined to produce the effect that, when Steve raised his shield, rather than take the time to yell anything, Tony simply prepared himself to face what was about to happen, which he thought would be Steve attempting to end him. But fortunately for him, he was wrong. Steve wasn't trying to kill Tony; Bucky was still alive, so Steve was able to contain his fury enough to refrain from a killing blow, and he hit the arc reactor instead.

Now, let's look at how Nico's death scene played out. After John pursued Nico for a bit, and managed to fend off a concrete trash can that Nico threw at him, he was able to hit Nico with the shield as Nico ran into a square. This forced Nico to stop to keep his balance, which allowed John to hit him again, and this finally knocked him over. Nico then tried to get back up twice; the first time John hit him with the shield again to keep him down, and the second time he put his foot on Nico's chest to pin him to the ground and stop his escape attempts. Then, since he couldn't try to get away anymore, Nico waved his hands and nervously insisted, "It wasn't me." He said this because, given the role he played in Lemar's death, he was well aware of why John might be mad at him specifically, for more than just being a friend of Karli. John, for his part, had been preparing to interrogate Nico about Karli's whereabouts, but this clear falsehood evidently filled him with rage, and he raised his shield in a fury. Rather than make an effort to block the imminent attack, Nico simply repeated, louder, "It wasn't me!" even though it was clear that John was not about to accept his garbage. And then, of course, since Nico wasn't about to actually do anything, the beating with the shield commenced.

Nico just lay there and was obediently killed, even though there was literally nothing stopping him from simply catching the shield and keeping it off his chest. His arms and hands were not at all restrained—indeed, he was waving them around—and unlike John, who had acquired a gash on his head, Nico was completely uninjured, so there wouldn't have been any pain distracting him either. And as we saw earlier, Nico is just as strong as John—he was able to restrain John so effectively that Karli would have been able to easily stab John if Lemar hadn't stopped her—and his evident fear would likely have given him enough strength to cancel out John's rage. So he would certainly have been able to keep the shield off his chest until Sam and Bucky, who appeared shortly afterwards, could save him if they wanted to.

Indeed, Nico didn't save himself even though, as evidenced by the fact that he did actually have a chance to cry out, he was dealing with a much less challenging situation than Tony was. For one thing, John bringing down the shield on Nico's chest was not at all a surprise. After John had pinned Nico to the ground, Nico had time to say, "It wasn't me" before John made any sort of move: and after John registered what Nico had said, he shifted his shield, which had been on his arm, into a two-handed grip, and then raised it. Nico clearly saw this coming; indeed, this is what caused him to shout "It wasn't me" a second time. And John's intentions at that point were obvious, so it's not like what happened with Tony where Tony thought that Steve was going to do one thing but he did another; it was pretty clear where John's shield was going, and this would have been plenty apparent to Nico since terror tends to make time slow down. So he had ample time to catch it.

Additionally, Nico would not have been stunned in the way that Tony was. Tony was slammed to the ground and then received five forceful rapid-fire close-range blows to the head, which is several hard impacts in a short span of time. Nico, by contrast, was hit once with the shield, then was knocked by John to the ground. This was a much shorter distance to fall than the overhead bench-press position that Tony was thrown from, and there were even stairs to break Nico's fall. Thereafter, Nico was hit with the shield again—and he hadn't gotten very far up, so he didn't fall very far back down—and then John thwarted Nico's final attempt to get up by pushing him down with his foot. In addition to the fact that the push was much gentler than getting hit with the shield again would have been, as before Nico hadn't gotten very far up, so he wouldn't have hit the ground that hard.

Therefore, in contrast to Tony, who received six sharp blows pretty much back to back, Nico received three fairly spread out blows—after the first hit with the shield, John had to close the distance between them and wind up again before hitting him a second time to knock him over, and then Nico fell to the ground and started to get back up before he was hit a third time—as well as a kind of shove. Nico thus did not receive nearly as harsh a pummeling as Tony did. And on top of that, he is a supersoldier: so even if his treatment had been rougher, Nico would have a much higher tolerance for pummeling than normal human Tony would.

Hence, Nico would not only have had plenty of time to see what John was doing, but he also would not have had to contend with the disorientation that Tony experienced. There is no excuse for why his only reaction to John's attack was yelling.

And here's what makes the fact that Nico didn't try to defend himself even more ridiculous. Even though Steve's attack was much more rapid, forceful, and unpredictable than John's was, Tony STILL did the logical thing and was ready to try to catch Steve's shield. Indeed, you can actually see a bit of strategy in his response to Steve raising the shield. Tony knew he wasn't strong enough to entirely keep the shield off his face since his suit was failing, so rather than try to stop it from hitting him, he was instead planning to try to grab the shield during its descent in order to slow it down and cushion the blow. As Steve brings the shield down, you can even see Tony open his fingers as he expects to encounter the shield. Nico did not do anything of the sort, he just aimlessly shouted as he passively lay there and waited for John to kill him. But come on! If Tony, who was just a normal human encased in a suit of rapidly failing metal, and who had been completely taken by surprise with a harsh walloping, could make an attempt to stop Steve from killing him (even though, as it turned out, he didn't need to), then Nico, who was a supersoldier, and who had received far less of a thrashing, could definitely have tried (and succeeded) to stop John from killing him. Especially since, unlike Tony, he actually would have been able to completely stop the shield from hitting him.

There is another difference between the two situations that is very interesting, however. Tony, for his part, was well aware that he was acting dishonorably. For instance, a little after Tony began his assault, when Bucky was trying to run away and Tony was intent on pursuit, Steve stood in front of him and said, "It wasn't him, Tony. Hydra had control of his mind." But Tony already knew this, so he simply responded "Move," in a way that clearly indicated that he didn't care and didn't want to hear it. And a short time later, when Tony prevented Bucky from escaping, Steve tried again to get through to him and said, "This isn't gonna change what happened," but Tony replied, "I don't care, he killed my mom." Tony knew that Bucky wasn't to blame for his parents' deaths, and that killing him would not help anything: but since he was angry with Steve for refusing to accept the Accords and all their rights-violations, he saw the revelation as an excuse to attack both Bucky because he knew it would hurt Steve, and Steve himself because Tony knew that Steve would not just stand by while Bucky was being assaulted. He ignored Steve's attempts to reason with him because he figured that he had enough power to be able to do whatever he wanted, and he also correctly guessed that Steve and Bucky would continuously hold back against him, even though they shouldn't have. And because of these things, before Bucky's intervention, Tony had been about to do something that could have quite possibly ended Steve's life. So when Steve regained the upper hand and Tony was at his mercy, Tony was aware that he had no right to ask Steve to spare him, because when he had been in Steve's position, he had been ready to potentially end Steve's life without a second thought. Therefore, he said nothing; his only response was to see if he had enough strength left to hold off Steve.

So Tony, in the face of Steve's attack, didn't yell anything because he knew that what he had done was indefensible: and it is due in part to this modicum of contrition that Steve was able to contain his rage enough to spare him. Nico, meanwhile, had been doing something similarly heinous. He had been actively engaged in trying to kill John because John was Captain America, and when Lemar frustrated the attempt on John's life, Nico was also the reason why John was unable to protect Lemar from Karli's subsequent death-blow. And just like Tony, Nico had been relying on his strength to protect him from repercussions. So what he had done was just as indefensible as what Tony did: but instead of taking the smallest bit of ownership of this, he tried to completely absolve himself of responsibility for what had happened, and this resulted in his downfall. For while John had clearly been intending to just interrogate Nico, the fact that the person who had held him helpless while his best friend was murdered was trying to act like he was not at all responsible for what had happened caused him to lose it, and this resulted in the shield incident. Now, Nico definitely should have made it clear that he was surrendering if he intended to, and even apologized if he genuinely regretted what had happened to Lemar: and again, when the attack did happen he could have easily fended it off. But if he had simply recognized the fact that he was not worthy of John's mercy since he had not been prepared to show mercy to John, and remained silent like Tony did, the shield-attack would never have happened in the first place.

But in any case, as mentioned above, Nico didn't try to defend himself because John needed to kill him, so that the show would have an excuse to take the Captain America mantle from John and give it back to Sam without it seeming too dubious. (Though considering that the incident ended up resulting in Sam and Bucky attacking John for the shield a very short time after he literally lost his best friend, the show completely failed at that.) Not to mention, if Nico had put up a fight, this would have highlighted how much he was still capable of threatening John, and put lie to the show's attempt to act like he was helpless. Particularly since, again, if he had tried to save himself there is no reason why he would not have been successful.

Now, it is important to also remember that Nico was definitely not surrendering, the other widespread misconception about his death scene. He kept trying to fight John until he literally couldn't—he threw a concrete trash can at John while he was running away, and tried to get back up twice after John initially knocked him over, which is not something someone who wanted to surrender would do—and then after John had him pinned, all he did was try to disingenuously absolve himself of responsibility for Lemar's death, rather than trying to apologize or making it clear that he was surrendering. But on top of the fact that Nico wasn't trying to surrender, and refused to own up to what he had done, he was perfectly capable of surviving John's attack when it happened. These things make his death scene, as well as the subsequent reaction to it, completely ridiculous and utterly nonsensical.

[originaljediinjeans]

A LOOOOONG TIME AGO just after Captain America Civil War came out, I wrote up this piece. I was thinking about the Winter Soldier's trigger words. And it just soooo happens that I'd studied enough about magic/witchcraft in college (esp from a medieval Western European perspective) that the trigger words gave me similar vibes. (the link to my term paper doesn't work, sorry). Anyway, it serves as an explanation for why the trigger words were so horrifying.

In the intervening years, Marvel Studios has demonstrated that the trigger words were mostly a gimmick for Civil War and they don't really care about Bucky. They never really cared about developing meaningful themes around the characters or stories they were sharing as fan service (or at least themes that don't serve the current political agenda, don't get me started). So yeah, I WAS reading a lot into it.

Buuuut that doesn't mean we as fans can't do something with the trigger words being based on witchcraft. Maybe writing an AU for Bucky's healing that actually works as a kind of counter-magic with that idea could be viable direction.

This is one of those concepts that I'd love to do a master's thesis on if I went to grad school. I would like to study the Eastern European/Russian perspective on magic/witchcraft and see if it supports my theory.

[khentkawes]

OMG, why do I keep watching Captain America: Civil War every time I find it on tv when I know that I'm just going to spend the whole time yelling at Team Cap!

Every time! My cat has to listen to me yelling at Cap and Comapny for their stupidity, their arrogance, their refusal to take responsibility for literally anything while spouting nonsense about how signing the accords would mean they weren't taking responsibility (seriously, how does Chris Evans say this dialogue? It makes no bloody sense!), and trying to murder Team Iron Man by crushing them underneath cars/planes/whole pieces of an airport/Scott's gigantic shoe. Team Cap escalted that fight almost immediately to possibly lethal levels. And then Scott acts like a child, relishing the destruction, when he literally almost KILLED Rhodey when he tried to step on him! Scott is a funny, lovable character in the Ant Man movies, but here, he's a frightening child with unspeakable powers and no limitations who is apparently willing to kill other avengers just to "be in the cool club"? And Team Cap is all like, "we can't call Tony, he'd never believe us and he'd never help us," when literally the first time Tony is presented with a shred of proof that they are right, he drops everything and puts himself at risk to help them--no questions asked. And Cap is all "my faith is in people" at the end of the movie, but earlier he complained that the accords were bad because the UN was "people and people have agendas." Um, dude, you have an agenda too. So you don't actually put your faith in individuals then? And hold up, Captain America should put his faith in the IDEALS THAT THIS COUNTRY IS MEANT TO REPRESENT! Ideals like justice, democracy, standing up to dictators, embracing immigrants, holding our leaders accountable, protecting the weak, etc. But the MCU's Cap doesnt care much about ideals. He cares about people... and only certain people apparently.

This time around I've realized that I only like two members of Team Cap: Bucky and Scarlet Witch. But I like Wanda mostly for her development in WandaVision, and even then, I like her in the same way I like Anakin Skywalker.... they are both a couple of hot messes always on the line between doing the right thing and committing mass murder / supporting nazis or facsiats because its convenient. Wanda was always a villain! A sympathetic and fascinating villain, but she's no less of a villain than Anakin (well, marvel is a little less murdery than SW... but still... Wanda has always been willing to do drastic things to get what she wants, no matter who gets hurt along the way).

I do have to hand it to the Russos... parts of this movie are compelling and nuanced... and then there are all of the Team Cap lines (which aren't). But either way, it makes me feel too many feelings every damn time. So... if they wanted to evoke feelings, they sure as hell succeeded!