#canon bruce die challenge

[jennrypan]

...Gotham War started cuz..Selina was stealing from Rich people. 😶

Bruce..I hope you NEVER see the pearly gates, I hope your parents never look down upon you and if they do. I hope it's in such disdain you can FEEEEEL it.

[i-care-bout-things-too]

Batfam Ages:

Okay, there is no such thing as an exact science when determining the ages of the Batfam, but the easiest thing you can do is work of the concrete ages that you /do/ know, and make them fit with canon events to the best of your ability. Now, canon changes all the time—which definitely makes this a challenge, but I’m going to just explain my process for determining their ages and you can disagree if you’d like, or you can use this to write fic like I do where ages are semi important,

Let’s begin. I’m going to give you the arbitrary number of 15, this will be important later.

Dick Grayson:

Depending on the canon, Dick is 8, 10, 12, or 15 when his parents die. All of these numbers will have problems depending on which you pick, but I go for the safe bet of 10 years old. Why? Well, a little known fact is that Dick ends up in juvie after his parents die, and he’s not immediately taken in by Batman. Thus, it takes a little while longer for him to become Robin, which doesn’t immediately happen after he becomes Bruce’s ward anyway, because Batman doesn’t immediately go and spill the beans. Thus, Dick ends up in Bruce’s car at around ten or eleven, but doesn’t become Robin until he’s 12.

Now Dick is Robin up until he’s about 18, when Bruce takes Robin from Dick because it’s too dangerous and Dick refuses to quit. Dick joins up with the teen titans full time, and he’s still Robin for a little while longer until we get Nightwing, aka Discowing, for the very first time at age 19. Simultaneously, while this is happening, a little kid is stealing the Batmobile’s tires.

Jason Todd:

Our beloved street rat Robin, Jason Todd, swings a tire iron at Batman and then gets taken out for fast food. It’s great, it’s cute, it doesn’t immediately lead to his adoption though, either. No, instead Jason ends up in an orphanage that is trafficking children. Bruce shows up one day to check up on Jason, and is made aware of this by his soon to be first adopted son (yeah, you heard me, Dick isn’t adopted yet). They take down the trafficking ring, and Bruce adopts Jason. Jason then becomes Robin at age 13.

Unfortunately for our boy, he was widely disliked by comic fans across North America, DC did a little telephone poll, and by a few hundred votes, DC changed comic history forever by killing off a high profile character what seems like /permanently/ for the first time ever. No resurrections this time. (Hah, right!). Which is to say, Jason Todd has the second shortest run as Robin at just two years, dying at age 15.

Tim Drake:

So then we get Robin numero 3. Tim Drake sees Batman getting darker and more violent and goes y’know, someone should do something about that. He tries talking to Nightwing, but he’s in a bad place with Bruce after learning Jason died via a Newspaper (yeah, Bruce sucks for that one), and tells Tim he won’t be going back to Robin. Thus, lil Timmy Drake gets an idea in his head. He looks himself in the mirror and goes, I can fix him, and then, Tim Drake becomes Robin at age 12.

Tim Drake has one of the longest runs as Robin, with only a mild interruption from a lil blond Bat.

Stephanie Brown:

Stephanie Brown starts off as the vigilante Spoiler, whose whole purpose in life is to spoil the plans of her C-list villain dad, Cluemaster. She meets Robin (Tim), hits him in the face with a brick, and then ends up dating him. Unlike most characters who appear a few times and never come back, Stephanie manages to stick around. She gets pregnant at age 15 (it’s not Tim’s, and no she did not cheat, this happened priorly), she gives birth, the baby is put up for adoption, and she becomes Robin after Tim’s dad, Jack Drake, finds out Tim is Robin and bans him from it. Tim is forced to quit and Stephanie picks up the mantle. She’s clocks in the shortest run as Robin, working with Batman for about two months before Bruce forces her to stop. Tim picks up the mantle again, and Steph goes back to being Spoiler—only to get killed by Black Mask, making her the second “Robin” to die. DC does retcon her death, and we later learn she was only badly beaten and sent off to live in a foreign country before she makes her return.

Jason Todd, Again:

While all this is going on, stuff is happening behind the scenes. Namely, Jason coming back to life. A common misconception here however is how long Jason was actually dead. While I wouldn’t be able to find the panels to confirm it, the true number is a “short” 6 months. Yep, while years passed in the real world, possibly decades, actually, Jason was dead all of 6 months. According to the books, he undigs himself from his grave six feet under (because Superboy punched through the multiverse or something?) and ends up wondering around Gotham as a mindless little zombie. Conveniently, Talia al Ghul stumbles upon her beloved’s lost little bird, and she decides to take him home and train him. He’s with them for a bit, gets dunked into a Lazarus pit, comes back very very angry, is shipped off to the all caste for a bit, and upon his return to the al Ghuls, is informed he’s been replaced by little Timmy Drake.

Jason makes his whole plan, and decides to make a splash by returning to Gotham wearing an old moniker of the Joker’s and taking over Gotham’s underworld. He beheads a few criminals, tries to kill Tim, tries to get Bruce to kill the Joker, and doesn’t really have success in those latter two objectives. That puts Jason at age 19, roughly. We don’t really know how to count the months he was dead.

Damian Wayne:

Shortly after Jason’s unmasking as the Red Hood, Damian Wayne turns 10 years old and beats his mother, Talia al Ghul, in combat. His prize is to be taken to his father and given to him for training. We know definitively that Damian is 10 thanks to this we can measure out the age gaps between the others and get their ages at this point in time. Dick at age 19 became Nightwing, while Jason is made Robin at age 13, so they have a six year age gap. Jason dying 2 years later at age 15 leads to Tim becoming Robin at age 12, they have a 3 year age gap. Tim is Robin for 3 years before Jason comes back and Damian trails after him a few months behind, putting Tim at around 16/17 while Damian is 10. I tend towards 16 instead of 17 because DC stopped aging Tim for a while, so it just makes more sense to pick the lower number. Thus, when Damian is 10, Tim is 16 as is Steph, Jason is 19, and Dick is 25.

Thanks to Damian being quite young, DC has kept an active track of how and when they age him. We know Damian is only with Bruce a few short months before he disappears into the time stream and Dick makes him Robin, and we also know that Damian’s 11th birthday is celebrated after Bruce is reinstated to the proper time. However, DC follows this up by killing Damian and making him the third Robin to die, the second to do so in the suit itself, and he’s dead for a significant number of months. In this time, Dick also dies—as in his heart is stopped by Lex Luthor for a few seconds, and then restarted, after his identity is revealed on live TV. Bruce decides to let the world believe Nightwing died and stayed dead, and Dick is sent off to Spyral to do secret spy stuff for Bruce. There is an issue around here in the “Grayson” run that claims Dick is twenty-one years old, which is ENTIRELY incompatible with the time line I just painstakingly established, and I go ahead and outright dismiss it because it clearly doesn’t work with a majority of canon. While Dick is with Spyral, Damian is brought back to life, and he goes on a year of redemption (which doesn’t actually last a whole year, but I digress). He and Dick meet again, and we move into Rebirth somewhere around here with the conclusion of Spyral and Batman and Robin Eternal.

General Events:

Damian turns 12 presumably sometime during rebirth, although not specified, I do believe Truth and Justice issue #6 to be his 12th or 13th birthday, but I lean towards 12 because of the costumes everyone wears in the issue. Steph is spoiler, Cass is Orphan, Tim is Red Robin, Red Hood has yet to don his solo Outlaw uniform, and Barbara is Batgirl.

I can’t name a specific issue for Damian’s 13th birthday, but it’s canonical that Damian turned 14 in his solo Robin series, Robin (2021) while he was off finding himself before the Lazarus Tournament, and since then, there’s been the Shadow War, Batman Vs Robin, Dark Crisis event somewhere around there, the Lazarus Planet event, Gotham War, DC Knight Terrors, and Beast World event, which catches us up to the modern day world.

Since Damian hasn’t yet turned 15 despite ALL of that going on, and is still for now at least, 14, that means Tim and Steph are 20, Jason is 23, and Dick is 29.

I know I mentioned Cass and Babs, and I would love to give you a proper age for them but I don’t know where to place them in DC canon like I do the others, however people do commonly place Cass roughly around the same age as Jason making her 22 or 23, and Babs tends towards being 6-8 years older than Dick, although that is an age gap DC has been slowly bridging over the years. Still, I put her at 35 years old. I don’t have a reference for Duke Thomas either, but he’s commonly placed as being two years younger than Tim making him 18 currently.

Lastly, I bring back the arbitrary number of 15, given that that is the number of years that separate Dick and Damian, I also use that age gap between Dick and Bruce—meaning that Bruce took Dick in when he was 25, and placing Bruce at 44 years old in main continuity.

Overall Ages Currently:

Bruce Wayne: 44

Barbara Gordon: 35

Dick Grayson: 29

Jason Todd: 23

Cassandra Cain: 22

Tim Drake: 20

Stephanie Brown: 20

Duke Thomas: 18

Damian Wayne: 14

[necrotic-nephilim]

what are your favourite batcest ships and why?

AAA i love this question so much. i'm going to limit myself to a top five, because otherwise, i'd just end up listing all of them. the true joy of batcest is they're all so good for such different reasons and there are so many unique dynamics you can explore.

JayTim - it's funny bc, before i started this blog, i don't know if i would've put these two losers as my number one. but because i've done so much deep diving into their dynamic and i write them the most, i think it'd be a disservice for them to be anything *but* number one. their canon dynamic is just. so fun to play with. i truly love all of their interactions, particularly pre-Flashpoint. the concepts of Tim holding such contempt for Jason while Jason is weirdly obsessed with Tim. i'm a fan of Hannibal and Killing Eve and well. if this isn't a Hannigram-coded ship idk *what* is. i like ships where love and hate co-exist and there's no real "happily ever after", just fucked up co-existing, where they crawl back to each other like a bad habit and really, this ship is that so perfectly. the themes of jealousy in the Robin mantle. Tim wearing Jason's Red Robin suit to punish himself. i will likely never shut up about them. even in the New-52, there's such a substance to them, though the dynamic is wildly different. they will always be so weirdly dependent on each other's existence. i love them.

BruDick - you can't outdo the doer, i fear. i think i like BruDick mostly for the history of it, yk. there's genuinely *so much* queer history seeped into the homoeroticism of Batman and Robin, these two have been a symbol for queer people for decades. but the ship itself has so many dynamics i love. problematic age gap, "are we family or lovers", "i can't be in a room alone with you without getting into a screaming match but if you called i drop everything for you". all of it. i especially favor 80s/90s BruDick when they were in their divorce era just because it's so messy. Dick has canonically said he would die for Bruce, even during their arguments. no matter what, these two will always be single-mindedly devoted to each other. there will be other Robins, but none of them will compare to Dick Grayson, for Bruce. it's a unique and complicated bond that has endless layers to peel back. they always crawl back to each other bc no one else will match their level of intensity.

DamiTim - years and years ago, when i was a teen trying to people-please with how i existed in fandom, i used to insist i didn't like batcest and found it icky and gross. but there was one DamiTim fic that was my exception. that fic was my fucking roman empire. i reread it like once a year even though it's not completed and likely never will be i do not care. so now that i've killed the morality police in my head and i let myself ship what i actually want to ship, this ship holds a top place in my heart just bc of that fic alone. but in general i do fucking love their dynamic. similar to JayTim there's just so much mutual hatred in these two that has endless potential. Damian's insistence to not see Tim as a Wayne and as a legitimate brother/heir to Bruce is something you can play a lot if you give Damian an angry, fucked up crush on Tim he doesn't want to admit to. they have so many reasons to dislike each other, so to try to get them to slowly fall in love is a fun challenge. they either have a long complicated forgiveness arc and end up a happy married couple or they are the couple that tries to kill each other once a week. no in-between.

JeanTim - there's like. one person here on tumblr who goes as hard for this ship as i do and truly god bless them bc they feed me. Jean-Paul is too underrated in the batcest scene. once i reread Knightfall, i will have to help popular this tag on ao3. i enjoy both a very fucked up version of this ship during the peak of the Knightfall arc, where Jean-Paul is deep in his murder Batman era and Tim is trying to stop him to no real avail, but i *also* think there's so much you can do with the ship afterwards, where Jean-Paul is trying to make up for what he's done and be a better person and better hero. they're the peak Batman/Robin ship, to me. they truly care about each other, but have a very complicated/bloody history and i just. man i love it so dearly. i've been meaning to write a fic where Jean-Paul goes to Tim post the Sword of Azrael (2022) arc to properly discuss and apologize for all his actions in Knightfall for his personal healing and they end up fucking. it could be sweet and cute or kinky fun bc what is the joy of a character with that much Catholic guilt if you don't give them a weird religious kink.

BruCarrie - The Dark Knight Returns got me into comics and i will defend it till the day i die. Carrie Kelley can be pried from my cold dead hands. i just really love these two? Carrie took one look at that cranky old bastard and decided she was his problem. and Bruce is at a stage where he should be very averse to the idea of having a Robin, he knows it's a bad idea. but he just. accepts her anyway. idk how to explain their dynamic other than she plunks herself in his lap and stitches up his wounds while telling him he's an idiot and he lets her even if he's grumbling about it. they have the biggest age gap of any Batman/Robin ship and for that, they should get like. a dead dove gold star no matter how rare the pair is.

also honorable mention goes to BruTim, because *god* do i love the concept of Tim offering himself up to Bruce as Robin in every way, knowing that there are likely sexual/romantic implications to being Robin. it's one of my favorite flavors of batcest to exist. i don't view them as a "happily ever after" ship, because Bruce will always go back home to Dick, but it's a fun lil dead dove moment.

[luxaofhesperides]

You know how Spiderman has 'canon events'? And how Gwen would always die? How about in every universe Duke exists in, there would always be Danny. And every time they fall in love! But whenever Duke tells/hints at him being The Signal, Danny suffers an accident or dies.

Like let's say in the DC vs Vampires universe, Duke tells Danny he's Signal and then a few days later he gets turned into a vampire and Duke has no choice but to kill him.

Or something like that yknow?

Earth 26.

The undercity is full of life. People from above refuse to understand it, staunch in their beliefs that the undercity is full of crime and sickness, drugs and filth. But the people down there are more human than any of the ones Duke has met up top.

Though Bruce Wayne can try to bring Duke in all he likes, there’s no denying that Duke doesn’t belong. His heart will always be in the undercity, where he was born and grew up and lived and lost so much. 

The undercity is where Danny is.

Away from the blue skies filled with blimps, tucked beneath the towering buildings and clocktowers and elevated rails for trains leaving trails of smoke through the city, there in the cramped spaces and dark alleys, is Danny. 

He ducks through familiar alleys, cutting across perilously stacked homes and hopping over railings to get to the Fenton Lab faster. 

He’s been excited all day, heart thrumming with anticipation, as he returns to his roots and seeks out Danny. Today is the day he’s going to come clean, tell Danny everything: his feelings, his powers, his identity as The Signal, fighting crime in all parts of the city to keep Gotham safe. He’s sure Danny suspects something is going on with him, likely has already guessed at everything he wants to talk about, but Danny deserves the truth.

It is his inventions that help Duke save people, after all. 

Finding the front door of the Fenton lab is always a challenge. Metal scraps and materials stripped from vehicles litter the front of the building from people leaving all their unwanted things with the Fentons. Miscellaneous inventions and tools are left scattered around as well, creating a labyrinth that Duke has to traverse every time he wants to see Danny while he’s working with his parents.

It takes a few minutes, but Duke manages it, pushing open the door after a quick knock.

“Danny? Are you there?”

He can hear something from the lower floor, a strange, high pitched whirring noise. His powers kick in and suddenly he can see people rushing around the room, shouting in voices that he won’t be able to hear until the time comes. He can see himself, crying.

Duke’s heart drops.

“Danny? Danny!”

He runs down the stairs, suddenly terrified that he’s too late. Something is going to happen to Danny. It has to be Danny, because no one else is home with him; that’s why Duke asked to meet in the Lab, to have some privacy while the other Fentons were out.

The noise is louder, too loud to hear over, and Duke rushes into the Lab just in time to see some strange circle of metal spark with electricity. Danny stands right before, staring up at it.

“Danny!” Duke shouts as loud as he can, and Danny startles, then turns around.

Their eyes meet just as the machine finishes turning on, the metal circle ripping open with a thunderous noise, and Duke can do nothing but watch as it sends electricity and some other energy racing through Danny’s body.

It lasts just a brief moment, and then Danny is crumpling to the ground, eyes closed as the machine settles. The swirling pit of white and green stares out at him and Duke knows without a doubt that Danny is dead. . . .

Earth 41.

Duke’s been acting strange. Well, stranger than usual.

Danny’s not one to go around poking at people’s secrets, especially not his boyfriend’s, but he knows something big is going on. He’s not worried that Duke is cheating on him, but he can see the injuries he comes back with some days, citing all the unrest and the resurgence in crimes following Batman’s death.

He wonders if Duke is going out each night for street fighting, forcing all his emotions into his fists until they’re beaten bloody. Batman’s death hit him hard, and Danny has no idea what to do to help him.

They’re both stressed, on edge and scared, but they don’t fight as much as he expected. Admittedly, it’s hard to fight where they’re always spending time apart. 

No longer. Tonight, Danny is determined to get to the bottom of things so he can help Duke with whatever he’s going through. He even texted Jazz to get some tips about communication and helping someone through grief. He’s as ready as he’ll ever be. 

Right at 3AM, the window slides open. 

“Welcome back, Duke,” Danny says, watching as Duke flinches, then sighs as he closes the window. 

“What are you doing here, Danny?”

“Well, it’s been so long since we’ve seen each other, I decided to hang out here and wait for you. But you’ve been gone for a long time.”

“Sorry, Danny, but I’m really tired. Can this wait?”

Anger bubbles in his gut and Danny takes a deep breath to force it down. “I’ve been waiting. If you keep pushing this conversation off, we’re never going to get anywhere.”

Duke slumps against the window, rubbing a hand against his face, looking exhausted. “Look, Danny, things have been getting real bad, and I don’t want you to get hurt because of it.”

“What’s going on, Duke? What are you so worried about?”

“It’s… The guy who killed Batman. His name is Karma, and I’ve been going after him.”

“You’ve been what?!” Danny shouts, shooting to his feet. “Duke, are you insane? Anyone who can kill Batman is bad news, there’s no way anyone short of like, Superman, can stop him! You’re going to get yourself killed!”

“Someone has to stop him! And I can do something to help, okay? I’ve been helping the other bats fight him. I can do this.”

Danny clenches his fists, feeling frost crack against his skin. “You could have told me,” he says. “You know I can help, too. You’re not the only one with powers.”

“I can’t endanger you like that, Danny.”

“So you leave me in the dark instead? You would have rather I wait for you forever while you never come back because you got yourself killed running into a situation you can’t get out of? You think I would have been any safer not knowing? Then clearly you haven’t been paying attention!” He’s shouting by the end of it, shaking with fear and rage and so many things it all becomes a tangled mess in his head. 

“I really think we should have this conversation in the morning,” Duke says, eyeing Danny warily. It’s probably just because he’s been out all night hunting Karma, so used to being attacked while he goes out to try to save a city that even Batman couldn’t lift from the darkness, but that doesn’t stop the stab of hurt from going through his heart. Danny has done his best to be safe for Duke, to be human and comforting and strong enough to protect him. 

And Duke is looking at him like he could be at threat.

“Whatever,” Danny mutters, shaking his head. “You’ll talk to me in the morning by saying nothing but how you need to do whatever this is and then you’ll leave and we’ll both be unhappy. Great. Can’t wait.”

“Danny—”

“Bye, Duke.”

Danny’s up and out of the apartment before Duke can take more than a few steps towards him. He zips up his jacket and pulls the hood over his head, taking the steps two at a time to get to street level. It’s dark and quiet outside, save for the distant police sirens, and Danny barely spares a glance around him before he’s making his own way home, sure that no one would still be out at that time.

He should have been more careful. More vigilant. Not so lost in his hurt feelings.

But there’s no time for that when he’s pulled into an alleyway, knife at his throat.

A man in a black helmet, face fully covered, stares down at him. “Well, well, well,” he purrs, digging the knife in a little deeper, “What’s the Signal’s little lover doing out so late at night?”

Signal?

…Duke. His boyfriend who always disappears in late hours, blows off dates when something big is going down in Gotham, who is trying to pick up the pieces following Batman’s death. 

And here is Karma, the very man Duke is searching for, pulling Danny away into the dark.

He only has a brief moment to regret storming off, for not being more patient with Duke, for not paying attention and avoiding Karma, before the knife is pulled away, tossed into the air, and the hilt comes down hard on his temple, and it is a long, long time before he is seen again.

The Signal does not find him alive. . . .

Earth 53.

The apocalypse isn’t kind even on the best of days. But today it might be coming close to something resembling kindness as Duke approaches the skeletal remains of Gotham. It’s been years since he’s been back here, moving with the Robins across the United States just trying to survive. They’d constantly been moving, searching for other survivors and food and shelter and any sign of hope they could get. 

There hadn’t been much anywhere, too much devastation across the country for anyone to even think of rebuilding. Even now, nature is just starting to recover, little green shoots pushing up through concrete rubble. 

This world isn’t one for superheroes anymore. Supervillains aren’t around either. Everyone is either dead or barely getting themselves through each day; but humanity is still around and wildlife is beginning to recover. 

Duke doesn’t know who’s left in Gotham these days. He suspects Oracle is still there, somewhere, helping reconnect telephone wires and setting up internet and electricity. Lights have been flickering on steadily as the Robins made their way into New Jersey and the sight lifted their spirits so much they decided to keep traveling through the night. 

No one in his group has a working phone any more, but the possibility of getting that piece of the old world back excites them all. 

By the time they reach the outskirts of the ruined city, the entire group is nearly buzzing with energy, speaking in hushes whispers that do nothing to hide the elation in their voices. Gotham was everyone’s home, once. They’re all happy to be back, regardless of what they’re walking into.

Duke volunteers to go scouting with a few others to find a good place to settle in for a bit as they reacquaint themselves with the city. Even before the end of the world, it was never a good idea to go blind into Gotham. 

Much of the city is still abandoned, and concrete rubble carry faded graffiti that show the remains of a gang long gone. The few people he see in the distance are quick to hide and disappear and Duke himself is too wary to approach them. But as he gets closer to the heart of Gotham, picking his way through destroyed streets, he sees more and more signs of life, people who don’t hide, weak lights in hastily constructed shelters.

No one attacks him as he wanders closer. In fact, a few exchange nervous glances then approach him, quietly asking if he’s coming from outside Gotham and what news he brings of the outside world.

Duke tells them about how Chicago is gone completely, unable to be saved at all, but there are settlements all along the shores of the Great Lakes. He tells them of the traveling groups he’s met who rotate through a few chosen states and are willing to take in new members. He tells them of someone who has an entire farm up and running again, full of chickens and cows and sheep and goat and horses, on top of all the crop they can grow. The location of the farm is kept secret and carefully protected, but they give away seeds and young animals for anyone wanting to raise their own.

The news gathers more and more people around Duke, eager to listen, and they’re more than happy to update Duke on what’s happened in Gotham. 

The Bats aren’t around as much anymore, but at least two of them are still in Gotham, helping people from the shadows. They’re fixing everything up as best they can, and most people live in or around Robinson Park where Ivy, who survived, grows food and shelter for everyone in exchange for protection and companionship. The Riddler turned from making death traps and taking hostages to creating new technology and inventions to make life a little easier, taking in a crew of assistants to learn from him.

That is to say nothing of the ghosts.

Gotham is full of them now, walking among the living as if they never died. They help people and stick with loved ones who lost them and fly through the air to deliver things with ease. It’s nothing that Duke has ever seen before, and he wonders how many people who died in the apocalypse chose to stay in such a ruined world. 

He begins to head back to the Robins, mind racing with everything he’s learned, when he sees Danny.

Danny, his friend once, who he loved dearly and didn’t quite realize it was deeper than friendship until after the world ended. Danny, who was always sleepy and soft and smiling, cracking bad jokes and lifting Duke’s spirits whenever he felt down. Danny, who was lively and dreamed of going to space to sit among the stars.

Danny, who is dead.

He never got the chance to tell Danny he was the Signal, but he thinks Danny knew anyways. He could ask now, put that lingering thought to rest, but it was one of the few things left unsaid between them, the only thing he had of Danny for all these years, and he doesn’t want to let go of it yet.

Danny hasn’t seen him yet. Duke could go to him, speak to his ghost, have some part of him back in his life.

But it wouldn’t be the same. It certainly wouldn’t be fair to tie Danny, who is free from the pain and misery of the living, to Duke, who is never going to stay in Gotham permanently. 

He misses Danny so much he feels hollowed out and empty, but he knows this is for the best.

Duke turns, pretending not to see him, and walks away. . . .

Earth 78.

Duke was…

Duke was important to him, Danny thinks. He can’t remember much, not after everything (electricity, screaming, pain pain pain, heavy darkness, a spark, hist chest cut open, where is ___? Why won’t he save—) but without any memory of what his life was like back then, his feelings are without context and easily ignored.

Wraith follows Shrike from a distance, watching as he drops into an alley to kill a rapist. Wraith feels nothing about this, for caring is not in his duties. He is instructed to simply keep Shrike alive and assist in his plans, whatever they may be. Wraith does not care about killing.

Danny, tucked away deep inside the mask, shivers and cries, wishing to hide away and say enough, please, that’s enough, just stop please stop stop stop stop—

Batman crosses the rooftops, a figure of darkness across the city’s skies. The Signal, his second oldest companion, travels through the shadows by his side until they land on the building Wraith stands on. 

The yellow of Signal’s armor is familiar and it feels safe but Wraith knows better. Talia and Ra’s have taught him to see past his emotions, to force away any sentiment and grapple with the cold hard truth. This is the truth: they are here to hurt him and Shrike, because they are dangerous killers and dangerous killers are dealt with swiftly and painfully in Gotham. 

They can do as they please to him. They will not take Shrike.

He engages Batman in battle first, easily slipping past his defense by going intangible, freezing his boots to the ground and icing his fists together. The Signal slips away at first, leaving Batman behind to try to get around Wraith, sending shadows towards Shrike who leaps away deftly, dodging them with ease as he leaves the beheaded body behind. 

Wraith grabs Signal before he can fully sink into a shadow and tosses him back, then flies to Shrike, picking him up and getting them away as quickly as possible.

“They found us faster than I thought,” Shrike says. His voice carries something in it that Wraith doesn’t recognize, but it makes his heart feel heavy. 

“We’re done for the night,” Wraith returns, voice low and hoarse. He died screaming and even the Lazarus Pits weren’t able to fix the damage done to his vocal chords. 

He lets his invisibility wash over them both, and they disappear into the night. The safehouse they set up, far away from the one Talia prepared for them, is small but comfortable. It’s secure, everything created and coded by Tim, which means Danny can relax inside the walls of the small apartment. 

Shrike helps him shed his gear, putting it away carefully. Wraith becomes Danny and he watches as Shrike becomes Tim. 

Gone is the ruthless efficiency, the quickness to cut down the scum of Gotham without remorse. Instead, he’s pale and tired, eyes still a faint green from the linger remains of the Lazarus Pit that brought him back from the dead, but there is no madness in him. Only a coldness that came long before his death, unwanted by Damian, the first of Batman’s vigilante partners, who refused to see him as part of the family or even as a hero at all. Duke had already gone to work with other teams since then and never met Tim properly for more than a few minutes.

But he knew Danny. They must have been close. If seeing The Signal sends such a sharp stab of pain in his heart, it must be for a reason. But the memories are long gone, and with them, any desire to be close to him again. 

They never do well after a run in with the Bats. Though they have won every fight they’ve had, Tim often retreats to bed in order to hide his tears and Danny is left alone, lost, and wishing he had stayed dead. 

Tonight is no different. Tim is making a difference as Shrike, striking fear in the hearts of Gotham’s criminals. Crime has gone down in Crime Alley, his chosen territory of the city, killing as many people as needed before they finally get the message to be better people. Tim is also still only eighteen and had spent three years with the League of Assassins before returning to Gotham and seeing that his place in the Bats is erased and forgotten and replaced by the well-loved Jason.

He only stays in Gotham to kill the people who sold him off to the Joker and laughed as he died slowly and painfully. Once the Joker is dead, he’ll leave Gotham and disappear for good. 

Danny will follow him. He has no life now and no other direction. And with Tim hiding under the covers, Danny can do nothing but feel his own skin crawl at the need to get away from everything that connects him to his life Before.

It’s a terrible idea, but he goes out again, heading into Otisberg, where he once lived. Only a raised hood conceals his face; the expressionless mask he usually wears is gone, and Wraith feels far away from him.

He hears the Signal land behind him some time later. It could be minutes or hours; time slips by Danny easily these days no matter how hard he tries to hold onto the minutes passing by. 

“Wraith,” Signal says, and his voice is hard. “Where’s Shrike? Out terrorizing the rest of Gotham?”

Danny doesn’t reply. He stares out into the city lights, a cold emptiness growing inside his chest. 

“Well, if you’re going to just sit there, then I suppose you don’t mind if I take you in to let Batman interrogate you. You’ve been causing a lot of trouble around here, and we don’t take kindly to murderous masks in Gotham.”

He doesn't resist as Signal grabs his wrists, hauling him up from where he was sitting on the ledge. Danny allows Signal to turn him around, shadows binding his wrists together and pulling down his hood.

The Signal sucks in a sharp breath, hands falling limp to his side. “Danny?”

Danny doesn’t respond.

“This better not be a joke, I swear to God. If you’re just wearing his face to fuck with me, I’m going to kill you, Batman’s rules be damned. Say something already!”

Danny looks up into the visor of Signal’s helmet. He opens his mouth and a hoarse whine slips out. “I knew you,” he manages to whispers. “I knew you. And then I died.”

The Signal flinches, then reaches up and pulls his helmet off. “Tell me something only we would know. Anything.”

“I don’t… remember. I wanted you to save me. I don’t think you did.”

“If this isn’t really you, Danny,” Duke says, voice thick with tears, “Then it’s a really fucked up joke.”

Danny looks at Duke, helpless. He doesn’t know what to do. What to say. Wraith only knows how to follow and protect and take orders. Danny doesn’t know how to live anymore. There is nothing he can do.

And then, as he stares as Duke, a memory slides into place, fuzzy but there.

“Arcade on eighth street,” he whispers, and Duke’s eyes go wide. “That was going to be our first date.”

“It was,” Duke says. There’s a light in his eyes now, something that looks like hope and the sight of it makes Danny sick to his stomach.

“I’m dead, Duke. Danny is dead. There is only Wraith now. Let the dead go, and stay away so we don’t have to kill you. I… want you to live.”

The shadows have loosened, still wrapped around his wrists but as a caress instead of a restraint. It doesn’t take any strength to pull out of them and drop off the roof, falling towards the ground. Danny lets gravity take hold of him for a few moments, then goes invisible and flies away just as Duke grapples down and searches for him desperately. 

He can hear Duke calling his name, then calling in Batman and Nightwing, but his voice fades away before Danny can make out what they’re saying.

Not that it matters. Whether tomorrow or further down the line, he and Tim will leave Gotham and disappear for good.

The dead cannot stay with the living, and so they will go.

There’s nothing left for them here, anyways. . . .

Earth 0.

Duke has had his fair share of strange dreams. It comes with the trauma and the powers, a terrible mix that leave him shaken and rattled when he wakes up, gasping for breath.

But instead of fear, his latest series of dreams leave him with a deep-seated feeling of grief. The details fade away quickly once he’s awake, but he can remember bits and pieces of worlds that looks so different from the one he lives in, and all of them have a single constant: Danny.

Danny, whose face he never remembers when he wakes. Danny, whose name is permanently etched into his mind. Danny, who he loves and loses every single night.

Danny, someone he’s never met.

Dick asks him if he’s alright the next time he’s in Gotham, eating breakfast in the manor with him and Tim. He considers lying, then tells him about the dreams and how frequent they are, snapshots of other lives where there is someone important to him that he can never save. Tim, who he thought was sleeping with his eyes half open, looks up and mumbles that it might be another universe.

After a few cups of coffee, Tim is awake enough to ramble on about the multiverse, pulling up reports from the Batcomputer on his phone to show Duke how many of them have had run ins with alternate universes. 

“So you’re saying that Danny might be here? In this world?”

Tim shrugs. “Well, maybe. If he’s the only constant, then I wouldn’t be surprised. If you’re here, so is he.”

“But he always dies!”

“Don’t worry, Duke,” Dick says, putting a comforting hand on his shoulder, “If you do find him, then you’ve got all of his to help keep him safe.”

“Do you want me to find him? If you give me a description, I can probably narrow it down to a few people in the United States. One of them might be him.”

Duke considers it for a moment, then shakes his head. “Nah, thanks though. If we’re supposed to meet, then we will. No point in rushing it.”

“Alright. Let me know if you change your mind.”

And that had been that. Nothing to really worry about, but the dreams continue and Duke keeps waking up grieving and so love with Danny, carrying the feelings of his alternates over to his own reality. At some point, he wishes that he and Danny would never cross paths in this world, if only so he doesn’t have to lose him.

But he wants to meet him. The universe says Danny is important to him; why else would he be part of his life in every world?

The thought never leaves him. It’s always in the back of his mind as he goes about his life, going to school and fighting crime. He finds himself lingering in the streets, trying to see everyone’s faces, listening for that familiar voice.

It takes over a year before he hears someone say, “Danny!” as he’s patrolling as Signal. 

He bends the light around him, going invisible, and searches for the people shouting the name of the person he hadn’t been able to get out of his mind. It takes some time, but his eyes land on a tall, red haired woman fussing over a boy with black hair and blue eyes, leaning down some so she could reach his face.

He can’t hear what they say with the distance between them, but he knows with absolute clarity that he’s looking at Danny.

His Danny.

Duke takes a step forward, ready to drop his invisibility, letting the light escape his grasp, the pauses when he sees the bright smile on his face. 

This Danny is safe. He is alive and laughing and is with someone he cares about. 

This Danny has a life and a future and as much as Duke wants to know why his alternate selves love Danny so much, it isn’t worth Danny’s life.

Heart breaking, Duke steps back and watches as they walk away, disappearing into the crowded streets. 

He stares after them long after they’ve disappeared from sight, then grapples to a rooftop and releases his hold on the light. He sinks to his knees, trying to breathe through the grief that runs through him, and taps a pattern into his comms to signal that he’s ending his patrol early. 

It’s fine, he tells himself. This is for the best. This will keep Danny alive.

Danny always dies because of Duke. Someway, somehow, whenever they meet, the bell tolls and Danny’s death quickly approaches. It happens in every world, in the many, many dreams he’s had looking into a moment of their lives. 

But not this one.

In this one, Duke will save Danny by doing the only thing he can: making sure they never meet. 

It’s for the best. It has to be. . . .

[send me ghostlights prompts!]

[bookburners]

Hear me out. HEAR ME OUT!

Cassandra Cain on Americas next top model.

Okay, so this is based around four things: 1, Cass is canonically very attractive; Tim Drake (he was not her brother yet, still weird but don’t worry about it) and Conner Kent have said so. 2, every time Bruce took her out for a mission he dressed her like a repressed airline stewardess, and I’d think he’d have an aneurysm. 3, the head cannon that Barbara continuously has to hack into different reality shows emails to get rid of Cass’s audition tapes. 4, the head cannon that, despite not caring in the slightest, Cass is really, unintentionally fashionable.

So Steph and Cass are watching reality tv together and ANTP comes on. Cass gives two shits about modeling or fashion but what intrigues her, the insane challenges done in spiked heels. She’s auditioned for every other available reality show except this one, Barbara would never expect it, no one would.

Cass forcefully grabs Steph’s shoulders, looks her in the eyes, and says “I am going on that tv show!”. Stephanie, the ride or die that she is, I’d so down. They go over to Tim’s boat, or whatever and steal his Camera and computer, film her audition and send it in.

The trifecta of them doing it on Tim’s computer, Barbara never expecting Cass to want to be on ANTM, and her having already filmed the season by the time they find out make it so she gets away with it.

[canonmisogynyvictimstournament]

PROPAGANDA

KATHERINA MINOLA (THE TAMING OF THE SHREW) (CW: Domestic Abuse)

1.) We had to read this for English my senior year. I got so mad at the way she's treated. She's the titular "shrew" of the play. She has to be married off before her younger sister can get married, because that makes sense.

Then the most dogshit man imaginable comes along, and everybody thinks they're perfect. He literally gaslights her and denies her food and water.

Fuck Petruchio and Katherine Minola deserved better!

2.) Literally the whole play is about how she is so awful that the main guy needs to change her entire personality, which he does as a challenge not because he likes her, and then proceeds to her abuse her for the rest of the play. Yet, he is portrayed as the hero, not a villain and she is shown to have "improved" at the end. People will say, oh it's open to interpretation, it can be played different ways, it's satire, but i don't find abuse funny and there is a distinct lack of commentary in the play to count as satire imo. Taming of the Shrew is a tragedy not a comedy, I will die on this hill. Kate deserves better!

3.) The title isn’t joking, ya’ll. She literally gets broken like a rebellious feral animal and it’s treated as a happy ending.

BARBARARA GORDON (DC COMICS) (CW: Ableism)

1.) Famously fridged in 1988, which was so popular with misogynists it became canon. After almost 2 decades of being one of the only disabled characters, was rebooted to a younger, more fun version of herself whose only history is that she was fridged but not disabled by it.

2.) The Killing Joke is one of the biggest comic examples of a female character getting hurt to motivate male characters. Also tbe way different cannons will trade off who her romantic intrest is out of Batfamily is pretty disturbing ranging from Bruce Wayne in Batman the Animated series universe (ew) to Tim Drake in the Arkham games (ew). Not to mention DC now is not letting her grow out of being Batgirl taking away her legacy of other young female heroes taking up her mantle and her getting to mentor them instead forcing her into a Batgirl cycle of purgatory when she was always better as Oracle (Its a little more complicated in the new Batgirl book but its still not solving the issues in a way that feels meaningful enough to make up the damage).

3.) Was shot as angst value for Bruce and her dad, implied to be sexually assaulted in The Killing Joke with absolutely no respect for her long career as Batgirl. When Alan Moore asked if he could, the editor said "cripple the bitch." She became paralyzed from the waist down. THankfully, an actually good writer picked her up from there and then wrote one of the best stories ever written (Oracle Year One: Born from Hope). Was one of the most iconic disabled characters in comic book history, hell, as Oracle, she was definitely up there as one of the most iconic disabled characters ever as well as a fantastic character, period. There were a few moments where people kept trying to make things out of her disability and had her be shitty to other women for no reason but for the most part, she was awesome. During her time In 2011, Dan Didio and some other misogynistic/ableist comic book writers were responsible for "curing" her disability and forcing her back into Batgirl, despite her having shown absolutely no desire to do so, as part of the New 52. They also made it an editorial mandate that she couldn't have glasses, a cool secret base, and her time as Oracle couldn't be referenced. This was because those writers were nostalgic for the 60s Batman show where Babs was played by an actress they all had the hots for and couldn't accept she'd grown up and moved on. That was bad enough, but over time, she's been increasingly deaged and reduced even further to just Dick Grayson's on and off again girlfriend and a generic girlboss. Batgirl of Burnsides burn in hell.

[theskeptileptic]

my dream peter parker/batfam fanfic would be like a borscht of all the best tropes from ao3 with these seasonings:

au divergence after end game. but instead of tony snapping, peter snaps. he’s dead, he’s died, except maybe the stones hear his last wish as “keep them safe” and interprets it broadly to mean him too—so they yeet him to the dc universe.

but he’s not magically healed. so his arm/side is charred and damaged and his healing is taking care of brain damage but only the worst of it. boy’s got amnesia and a paralyzed arm and landed, let’s say, exactly where the NY battle against Thanos was being held but in this universe, that happens to be a Bristol skatepark at eleven-thirty at night

where a sixteen year-old tim drake is angsting pretty hard and struggling with his own recovery post a Rogue smack down that has left him with some newly acquired, long-term physical disabilities

(and tim, who has convinced the batfam that he has an uncle to care for him, is also dealing with all the juicy unreliable narrator tropes these orphan boys seem to acquire like pokémon cards—he doesn’t think he’s part of the family, he can’t be useful anymore, he’s stepping back to give jason and damian space)

(and let’s say, bruce is also missing because, it’s my story, so dick hasn’t been able to look into the uncle thing because he’s dealing with becoming a dad to an angsty 12 year-old assassin kid who is threatening to run back to Ra’s but is also clearly in need of love)

(and let’s also say, jason is trying hard but isn’t talking to dick right now because he thinks tim shouldn’t have been allowed to fight the rogues in the first place, so he’s unreachable for the moment)

but now tim is staring at this boy who has popped up in his old skatepark and has to give first aid but can’t because of his own difficulties

so he calls jason who answers because it’s tim and tim was really hurt, and tim freaks out and jason comes and they call an ambulance for the boy

peter is unconscious but opens his eyes when the ambulance gets to the park. tim is talking softly to him and peter reaches out because tim reminds him of ned.

peter’s sticky powers mean tim has to come to the hospital with him because when peter fainted again, he was still attached to tim’s hand

“who is the boy?” “how did he get so hurt?” ask the hospital, cps, gcpd. so they take fingerprints and blood and dna and low and behold, a match.

because it’s my story

and i’m a genie

granting wishes to myself

and i’m a glutton

and i will die choking on my own sweet, sugary fluff

dick grayson is the father. (because richard parker is richard grayson is my kryptonite) jason realizes his brother will need some major help, so they reunite over this news.

tim sticks around once peter wakes and they all realize peter has amnesia.

“oh, my uncle won’t mind me staying here for a bit. he’s on a business trip.”

(later on in this huge behemoth of a head canon, tim and peter solve the mystery of bruce being lost in time. i’d love to see a red robin au where peter and tim are working together and dick is trying to keep his alternate universe son from spider-manning in front of ra’s.)

lots of angst potential when peter’s memory returns.

potential running away

potential misunderstandings?

alfred is not uncle ben, peter knows this, but sometimes, peter hangs out in the kitchen because alfred will say the same things uncle ben said, just in a better accent

jason and peter bond instantly. damian and peter bond instantly. how does tim handle a kid his age, going through some of the same health, physical challenges, who just seems to have a much easier time getting along with his brothers?

delicious.

[ao3feed-brucewayne]

Blended in Measure

by Jacey (OncillaBrigade) Bruce put his hand over his eyes and drew a deep breath. “Of course I’m proud of Tim’s improvement in unarmed combat, but I’m also not going to cheer when one of you breaks another’s nose.” “Wow, okay,” said Dick, “So I guess you don't want to encourage Timmy?” “That’s not what I—” Jason interrupted again. “He’s just upset because of the time I almost died.” The Wayne family's Sunday afternoon vibes are shattered when Jason and Tim's sparring session goes a little too far. Neither Bruce nor Tim handles it well, but they have family to help. Featuring Alfred's near-superhuman ability to show up at the right time, my fervent conviction that Bruce Wayne could right a great children's mystery series, and lots of mostly wholesome family bonding. Set in a kinder, gentler timeline than DC gave us where Jason Todd was saved just in time and Tim Drake entered his found family a few years early (see notes below). Words: 8684, Chapters: 1/1, Language: English Fandoms: Batman - All Media Types, Batman (Comics), Robin (Comics) Rating: General Audiences Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply Categories: Gen Characters: Tim Drake, Jason Todd, Dick Grayson, Bruce Wayne, Alfred Pennyworth Relationships: Dick Grayson & Bruce Wayne, Jason Todd & Bruce Wayne, Tim Drake & Bruce Wayne, Tim Drake & Dick Grayson, Tim Drake & Jason Todd, Dick Grayson & Jason Todd, batfamily members - Relationship, Alfred Pennyworth & Bruce Wayne, Alfred Pennyworth & Jason Todd, Dick Grayson & Alfred Pennyworth, Tim Drake & Alfred Pennyworth, Batfamily Members & Alfred Pennyworth Additional Tags: Jason Todd Lives, Good Parent Bruce Wayne, Jason Todd Calls Bruce Wayne "Dad", Alfred Pennyworth is the Best, Batbrothers (DCU), Batbrothers Bonding (DCU), Batfamily (DCU) Feels, Batfamily Dynamics (DCU), Batfamily (DCU), Tim Drake Joins the Batfamily Early, Tim Drake is Robin, Jason Todd is Not Red Hood, it's not mentioned but Jay is Red Robin in this AU, it was his name first and it's so funny that Tim "stole" it after "stealing" Robin, the batbros love each other, Bruce Wayne is Good With Kids, he's also not great at communicating, but he's trying alright?, anyway this is the nicest possible version of this family at this point in time and I love them, dick and jay are menaces together, can you fucking imagine how bad it would be if they'd never had a break in their relationship?, Dick Grayson and Jason Todd are Siblings, Tim Drake and Jason Todd are Siblings, Tim Drake and Dick Grayson are Siblings, tim is slowly being turned to the dark side (roasting his dad), Mentioned Jack Drake, Mentioned Janet Drake, Autistic Tim Drake, Tim Drake Gets a Hug, Bruce Wayne could be a successful children's author change my mind challenge, Jason Todd and Bruce Wayne Have a Good Relationship, Fluff, Domestic Fluff, Tooth-Rotting Fluff, no beta we die like the parents of 4/5 of the characters in this fic, Canon-Typical Violence, my working title for this was "jay lives but tim breaks his nose" via https://ift.tt/5O8cWRY

[zeroducks-2]

(I hope I worded this right and that it does not come across as rude or snarky, I genuinely want to hear your thoughts) So does that mean your interpretation of Bruce is that he is, how do I say it, “indefinitely fucked/flawed”? That there are not many moments where he did goodness for the pure sake of it? Or it’s something like, 90% flawed 10% good?

It actually depends on who writes him, and on the media we're taking into consideration. I know that this might sound contradictory with my previous post, but I honestly don't think there's one interpretation of a character who's 80+ year old and went through the hands of hundreds of writers.

There are a few things that only "happened once" if you understand what I mean, like Cassandra's story. That story has only one iteration, there are no variants to take into consideration or other Batman media that explore it, so we can judge it by what happened that one time, but this is a rarity among the most important Batman stories. Think of UTRH. Bruce is way less ruthless in the animated version and the ending is very different from what happens in the comics.

Bruce did a lot of good things for the pure sake of it, there's no denying that. He's able to offer a helping hand even to the most monstruous, he will help criminals because he genuinely wants them to better themselves. He will get down to his knees to hug and comfort a crying child, he will use his money and resource and do whatever he can to heal his city.

But he will also beat people to the point of crippling them, he will send folks to jail for the most minor of offences, he considers disabled and "mentally challenged" people as a burden for society.

He loves the kids he keeps around and would die for them. But he also hits Dick and will beat him into a pulp when Dick refuses to do his bidding. He suffered for Jason's death and wanted to kill Joker in the heat of the moment, but will also cut Jason's neck and leave him to die again in order to save Joker's life. As protective and sweet as he is with Tim, he used Stephanie to manipulate him into becoming Robin again, acting terribly towards both kids. And I could go on but you get the picture.

All of these things shouldn't coexist but they do because the character is written by different people with different opinions and understanding of right and wrong, of what is an isn't an acceptable behavior for a man and a parental figure to have, and of who the character is and stands for in general.

It might seem that I don't like Bruce all that much and I surely don't like him as a person, but I also love him as a character for what he represents historically, for the nuance of his many depictions. Though I rarely ever defend him when it comes to people criticising his actions, because those actions need to be criticised. And I will hiss at canon stuff that insists on making Bruce always look like the flawless hero because he ain't it, and at people who claim that nonsense takes are canon (like Cass being his favorite) because I have a personal issue with people taking a headcanon that comes from the fact that they didn't read the comics, and shoving it on everyone's face demanding they accept it as "what actually happened".

I hope it makes sense.

[bi-bard]

Segue - Dick Grayson Imagine [HBO's Titans]

Title: Segue

Pairing: Dick Grayson X Reader

Based On: Segue

Word Count: 1,559 words

Warning(s): canon-typical violence

Summary: Dick never planned to fall for someone. However, when a new vigilante shows up in Gotham, he finds his attention torn from his work. And he can't find it in himself to feel upset about that.

Author's Note: The instrumental tracks are both the most fun stories to write and the most difficult.

Part Two of "May" [Release Date: 5/16/2023]

Part Three of "May" [Release Date: 5/18/2023]

YEARBOOK - SLEEPING AT LAST WRITING CHALLENGE MASTERLIST

----------------------

Being Robin was somewhat second nature for Dick.

He wasn't sure when running around in a suit and mask began to feel normal. All he knew was that it did. Running and fighting and training and saving people all became more normal that the life that he had outside of the suit.

But with normal came predictable.

It wasn't that he didn't still get that rush of adrenaline. It was just that every event felt like it was following the same script. It was a rehearsed dance more than anything else.

He couldn't picture an interruption to that predictability.

Until one night.

He was in a building across the street from a very sketchy bar. It was after hours, last call had been done. The only people left were two men sitting across from each other, a group of guards covering the entrances, and the bartender that seemed terrified about the whole ordeal.

Dick was watching the scene through a camera placed in the room. Bruce had gotten wind of a pretty bad deal and sent Dick to go figure out what was going on.

Dick was growing admittedly bored of the conversation. It was all subtle. Code words shared over two drinks. Nothing certain. No sure answers.

His boredom came to a sudden halt when he saw a guard suddenly collapse.

"What the hell-"

Another guard fell. And a third. And on and on it went.

With no other sign of anything, the guards had all fallen. Dick almost ran inside, but Bruce told him to wait. They didn't have enough information to know that moving in wouldn't get Dick killed.

One of the men suddenly pulled a gun out from his jacket, aiming at something. His arm fell as he suddenly fell unconscious. He leaned forward, head landing on the top of the table.

Dick watched as someone in a mask and a makeshift suit walked into frame. They grabbed the front of the remaining man's shirt. There was some yelling about a weapons deal. A detail that Dick and Bruce didn't even know about yet.

"Bruce-"

"Stay put."

Dick grumbled to himself but listened. He watched the man with his head on the table start twitching just a bit once his head was touched. As if trying to wake up and fight something.

The vigilante threatened to do the same to the only man still awake.

Dick furrowed his eyebrows. What was it? Poison?

"I will leave you trapped in a nightmare for the rest of your life," they explained.

"What?" Dick replied out loud.

"You won't wake up, and you won't die. You will spend decades in your own personal hell," they threatened further. "Unless you tell me what I need to know."

The man rambled out details so fast that Dick almost missed them.

"Thank you," the vigilante said before knocking out the man. Not in the same way they had knocked out the other men. No, this time they just punched him. "Only a few hours instead of the days these men will spend unconscious. I'd call that fair."

He knew that Bruce was also watching the feed from the Batcave.

"Bruce, did you-"

"See that? Yeah, I did," Bruce cut him off.

"Any idea who that was?"

"Not at all," he replied.

"I could follow them. They haven't left yet."

"No, it's too dangerous," Bruce muttered. "Come back to the manor. We'll look over that video feed, see if we can figure out what exactly they did."

"Got it, see you soon."

Dick was about to pack up and leave when he saw the other vigilante make it to the roof of the bar. Dick wasn't sure if they had seen him or not. If they did, they gave him no sign of such.

That was (Y/n)'s plan.

If the guy across the street knew that they had seen him, then there would be even more problems than they were already dealing with.

Robin and this new vigilante kept finding themselves in the same place.

Investigations to fights, when one was there, so was the other. It was more shocking that when the news ran the story of a new vigilante, they didn't accuse (Y/n) of working with Batman and his little sidekick.

(Y/n) stopped pretending that they didn't see Dick. There were too many occasions of them being near each other for that trick to work forever.

There would be moments where they'd stand on opposite roofs, staring at each other. (Y/n) would smirk at the other vigilante before taking off again.

It didn't seem like Dick would ever be fast enough to catch them.

Until one night.

There had been an investigation.

(Y/n) dropped on a roof that they were convinced was empty. However, as their feet landed, another set seemed to land in the same spot.

They looked over to see Dick standing behind them. His eyes were just as wide as theirs. He didn't realize that anyone was there.

(Y/n) went to run off but didn't get far before their wrist was grabbed.

"Wait," Dick called. "Please."

(Y/n) went shove him off, only to have their other wrist grabbed.

"I'm not going to hurt you, just wait!"

They stopped for a moment, glaring at him with their jaw clenched.

"I just want to talk, please," he said.

"Two minutes," they warned.

"What's your name?"

"Why would I tell you that?"

"I... I meant your... vigilante title, not your real name."

"I... I don't have one."

"What," he asked.

"I was a little more focused on the work," they explained. "Also, the news wouldn't care about what name I picked. They're gonna pick a name for me without my input."

"Have they picked one?"

"Still on 'mysterious new figure' duty," they muttered. "What about you?"

"Robin."

"Like the little bird?"

"I didn't pick it."

"Well, Little Bird, can you please let go of my wrists now?"

"I have an offer for you."

(Y/n) rolled their eyes. "What?"

"Work with me and Batman," he suggested. (Y/n) scoffed, so he tried to explain before they could run away from him. "Imagine how much you could do with more resources and extra help."

"Last time I checked, I'm usually ahead of you and Batman."

"Then just consider us extra hands and eyes. Please."

(Y/n) scanned their eyes along Dick's face. "One try. I will give it one try. Screw that up, I will happily kick both of your asses."

"Deal."

"Now let go of me."

Dick nodded and let go of their wrists, now holding up his hands.

He grinned as (Y/n) ran off again.

Suddenly, a duo became a trio and a solo act was part of a group.

Dick and (Y/n) continued working together. It would be a lie to say that it wasn't nice to have someone with them to sit through the long patrol hours. Talking to another person instead of yourself can be riveting.

It was a few weeks into this arrangement of theirs that Dick decided to ask more personal questions. Not that it was difficult to get more personal; the pair only knew each other through their vigilante personas.

"What's your name," he asked one night after a night of patrol. He knew that it wasn't worth asking when the excuse of work could easily be used. "Your real name, I mean."

"Why should I tell you first," they countered, tilting their head at him.

He felt a grin tug at his lips. "My name's Dick."

(Y/n) paused for a second. "I can see why you were okay with Robin."

He chuckled. "Your turn."

"(Y/n)."

Dick grinned to him. He couldn't explain it, but the name just... fit. Something about it sat right in his mind. Suddenly he was back outside that bar, watching with a shocked face as this one person took down an entire gang of people. He didn't realize just how much they had invaded his mind.

"No vigilante name yet," Dick asked.

"Nope," they shook their head. "I've upgraded to dark, mysterious new sidekick in the news."

"Congratulations."

"Truly a cause for celebration."

A little more laughter happened between them.

"I'll see you later, Little Bird-"

"Can I ask you another question?"

"Why not?"

"Why'd you start?"

"What do you mean?"

"Why did you become a vigilante," he asked. "Were you just sitting with all of that stuff you use and waiting for a signal?"

"No."

"Then... what happened?"

(Y/n) stared at him for a moment. Even after such a short amount of time, they knew that he wouldn't let this go.

They took a deep breath.

"I was visited by... something," (Y/n) explained.

"By what?"

"I can't tell you that."

"Why?"

(Y/n) took a deep breath. "If I do, what I have will be taken from me. I'm sorry, little bird, but you're not worth that risk."

Dick nodded. "I understood."

"Good," they replied before starting to walk away from him. "I'll see you around, little bird."

"Why can't you just call me Robin," Dick asked.

"Not as fun," they shrugged. "Bye, little bird."

"Bye... Sandie."

"Work on that one!"

"Planning on it!"

He heard a loud laugh follow (Y/n) as they ran off.

He smiled to himself.

This was a new normal that he could find himself enjoying far more than that old, rehearsed dance that he had known.

----------------------

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[misty-groves]

Talia raises Ivy au!

So in the usual "canon" for my oc verse Talia has Ivy, thinks Ra's will punish her and her baby, and gives Ivy to Bruce with a note of apology and the girl's name when she's like, three months old.

In this one, Talia chooses to be selfish and raise her baby herself. She never tells Bruce.

Ra's is like "Holy shit, a piece of Batman for the leauge? Make this infant my heir!" Except he's like 9 thousand so he's more pretensious.

Ivy is raised as the heir of Ra's all Ghul. She is taught to be stealthy, silent, and deadly.

She earns the nick name "Demon's Hawk" through the leauge and their enemies.

By seven she is better than most people in the leauge.

She is Talia's pride and joy. She's spoiled but like, also traumatized becuase ypu can't be raised by Talia and her dad and nor be kind of fucked up.

Then Damian is born when Ivy is about nine.

Despite what many expect, she is FASCINATED by Damian as an infant. He's so squishy and soft. And he can't do anything?

The first time Damian grabs her finger with little 4/5 month old hands and squeezes she is smitten. He's just so cute and he's stronger than she expected

Ivy is actually really good with Damian. And he is just enamored with her.

As a baby Damian likes to grab her curls and tug.

So now Damian and Ivy are close, she's super protective.

Damian is raised to be Ivy's bodyguard this time. By age four he is always at her side even if he isn't the official body faurd.

Jason shows up and is angry at everything.

He's flipping out and throws something towards a wall but it almost hits Damian. Ivy catches it before she throws it back "Don't throw things at my baby brother!"

Jason turns, haf angry half surprised.

Ivy is like 5'4 at her full adult height. So She jas never been tall.

Jason just stares. "What?"

"You almost hit Damian." Ivy levels a glare that could freeze over he'll.

Damian just crosses his arms and imitates his sister's glare. "You almost hit me."

Jason is like "who is this angry girl and her chihuahua brother?"

But he takes to her quickly becoming she's so fiercely protective. She's kind- in a warped way.

Talia appoints Jason Ivy's official body gaurd when she sees the two are on good terms.

Ivy hears how Bruce (supposedly) abandoned and eventually replaced him. She's a ride or die person as always and goes "fuck him"

So now we have Jason, a feral pit fueled bodyguard who's quickly attached to the only people who challenge and protect him. Damian, a bodyguard in training with too much sass and a problem with hiding knives sin his sleeves. You also have Ivy, who has been taught violence and is so fiercely protective of her people it is a sight.

Ivy, Jason, and Damia and Ivy are like Hella co-dependant. They don't know what healthy patterns are.

They love eachother so much but like also- violently?

Someone upsets Damian? Ivy cuts off their finger and gifts it to the boy.

Jason sees some creep upset Ivy? They're dead.

Damian is as likely to throw a knife as he is to demand an apology for the other two.

Talia is thrilled. Her three children are super close and also probably won't stab eachother in the back for power.

When Jason goes to Gotham on an Approved Vengeance Fieldtrip Ivy and Damian end up sneaking along.

Talia knows they did, she just let's them and plays dumb later.

So Ivy (16 1/2), Damian (7), and Jason (19 ish) are all in Gotham.

Jason is like "I can't believe you two snuck out and risked Ra's Al Ghul's wrath. That was so dumb" except he's actually really touched because he's never had people go so far for him with so little hesitation.

Ivy is out grabbing something and runs into Bruce Wayne, who reacts- well he reacts.

Ivy looks a LOT like Martha, but with a darker skin tone and Talia's nose. (Bruce looks like her to but his features are a little more square and his nose his father's)

Bruce is like "OH HI- UH!"

And Ivy is like "Playboy Billionair Bruce Wayne? What ate you doing at a shotty motel?"

Bruce is just like "gotta go teenager wearing my dead mothers face!"

Ivy goes back to the little apartment she's renting under the table with Jason and Damian, amd is like "met our shitty dad, he was weird."

At this point Ivy and Damian are creating their own mask personal because they're not just letting Jason go out and commit crimes alone

Ivy leans into the bird nicknames she's gotten over the years and starts going by Corvid. She wears mostly black and grey with small accents of crimson.

Damian is like "My siblings have such cool names I want a cool name!" Except he's an edgy traumatized blood thirsty seven year old.

So Damian chooses the name Demon Spawn, thinking the nickname Jason gave him was Super Cool

Batman is concerned about all of the crimes but especially the new criminal that is very clearly a child under ten. (Robin aged!)

Ivy has heard Jason's view on things so she is just anti Batman. She's also against the new Robin. She has a grufge against Batgirl, Oracle, and Nightwing on principal but to a lesser degree.

Damian still has a sword by the way.

Batman is really concerned.

After the big reveal and blow up Something happens to Ivy and Damian that makes Jason have to go to Bruce for help.

Jason is like "you owe me, you're saving the only two ride or die people I have."

Bruce is like "not only are they children but you ASKED ofc I will help."

They go to wherever Ivy and Damian ended up being held only to find the two have unkidnapped themselves, and for Damian to attack Bruce immediately.

If you know how feral Ivy and Damian and Jason are in the usual verse, they are worse and more toxic but like, put of love.

If you separate them they are NOT okay, they get feral and mean and jumpy and cruel.

But like, there's (lovin) manipulation all over the place. If Jason is endangering himself Ivy just stops eating until Jason stops.

Damian will take away their things to get what he needs them to do for themselves.

Honestly Jason post pit and full of rage is still better at healthy relationships than the Al Ghul siblings.

Once they're out they start learning that apparently they are not doing things right?

They start therapy (and traumatized their therapists) and start healing.

[fantastic-nonsense]

If you’re comfortable sharing, I’d love to hear more about your thoughts/ideas about religion/the afterlife, and how that’s influencing your Batman religion fic!

the tl;dr is that I'm a cradle Episcopalian whose mother is an Episcopal priest and that's deeply influenced my view on both the afterlife and religion in general. Personally? My view on the afterlife is...probably closest to the "heaven and hell aren't any kind of physical place or specific experience, it's eternal communion/separation from God's grace and your loved ones" interpretation.

Generally, I think that organized religion should be a way for people to come together under a general agreement of doctrine and behavior, discuss/argue about any deep difficult questions they have about the universe together, and experience the divine as a collective. I'm happy with the Episcopal Church and I've never felt a reason to deeply question my commitment to their particular understanding of the Christian tradition; I like the beliefs, rituals, and practice I grew up with and even though I've explored other denominations and other religions altogether, I've always landed right back where I started. They're a progressive denomination that, as a collective body, is genuinely committed to living out what I see as God's mission for humanity: caring for the world as it has been given to us and loving and helping our neighbors as ourselves. So I stay here.

As far as those beliefs affect the 'Bruce Wayne Religion Discourse Fic' (as I've lovingly termed it):

DC has decided on multiple occasions that Bruce is an atheist, to which I say: that's dumb DC, you have multiple pantheons running around and one of his best friends was literally the Goddess of Truth for a bit. The Abrahamic god canonically exists in-universe and the Spectre is his wrath embodied. The afterlife is a place people can physically go to and come back from (otherwise resurrection couldn't happen). This is the hill I die on when it comes to comics and it's that absolutely no character who lives in that universe should be an atheist (I've talked a little bit about this before here in regards to Tim Drake). They can be a non-worshipper, and frankly that's a completely understandable place to be in the DCU, but being a non-believer makes them look unbelievably dumb and illogical.

Anyway: Bruce is canonically Jewish due to the Accidental Jewish Retcon, which happened when DC created Kate Kane, an explicitly Jewish character, in 2005 and then made her Bruce's maternal cousin. This makes Martha Wayne (and thus Bruce) ethnically Jewish. However, it is ALSO canonically true that Thomas and Martha were buried as Christians, and the Waynes have been heavily coded as Episcopalian for decades. And yet he's supposedly atheist despite growing up in two religious institutions that have long-standing and exceptionally forgiving traditions around questioning/challenging divine authority, exploring doubt, and doing deep dives into theological doctrine.

So we're in an interesting place where Bruce canonically grew up in an interfaith household until his parents were murdered and also explicitly explored the tenets of multiple religions and spiritual practices during his training years abroad. And yet no writer wants to touch it! We get oblique references to his Jewish heritage occasionally, but other than that we largely do not see religion happen in Batman stories unless the central character is Helena Bertinelli/Huntress (a devout Catholic) or Jean-Paul Valley/Azrael (a cult survivor who basically acts devoutly Catholic). So I went 'well okay, I'll do it.' So the fic is focused on Bruce’s childhood growing up in an interfaith household and his incredibly complicated relationship with organized religion as he grows up, becomes Batman, and starts acquiring kids.

While I have not written anything except a tentative outline for it, I think my own beliefs are probably affecting how I approach the fic even conceptually, as I'm both Episcoplian (influencing how I'll approach that part of Bruce's exploration) and more than happy to explore my personal headcanon that Bruce ends up with a frankenstein set of beliefs that mix-and-match Episcopalian Christianity, Reform Judaism, Buddhism, and a few other things. It would be difficult not to, given all that he's seen, done, and experienced. Bruce is a very skeptical person who deeply believes 'seeing is believing', and I'll be trying my best to balance Bruce's canonical approach to such matters with how the DCU has portrayed religion and how the varying religions deal with massive soul-searching questions IRL.

......also I simply think that if Ollie Queen ever tells him that he met Jason in heaven/the afterlife while he was dead, Bruce would go home and cry for an hour, and I kind of want to write that scene.

[mastcrmarksman]

I loved the other one so ooooh thoughts on hawkdevil then 😊

Send me a potential ship with my/our muses, and I’ll give my thoughts on it.

also influenced by you.

a litle 616 canon context, although we aren't going fully with this four some event pulled from 616 some pulled from nmcu, you know the fusion universe. 616 canon, they actually don't have a lot of content history. besides the fact, they met in 1973; in daredevil vol 1, issue 99; because Daredevil had been dating Natasha at the time, and Natasha had Clint's only major love interest (besides his little crush on wanda and somee other flings) at the time; so as the decade goes, Clint was incredibly jealous and challenged Daredevil. You've probably seen the panels.

So first, they are kind of rivals and rub each other the wrong way. They don't really intersect a lot besidees Hawkeye and Daredevil existing in the same spaces after that. When Fractin/Waid era was going on, they seemto have reconciled whatever differences had, given DD would go to Hawkeye/Clint for leads and information; probably had some working relationship as Clint kind of plays both sides of the same coin. He is both an Avenger and hero who sticks to major teams, while also doing his own private "pro bono" hero work and acts as a street vigilante himself; so that's probably how DD and Clint got along, from mutual work spaces and such.

Finishing off this brief 616 canon look; we obviously have them being at odds again, and this is when Clint probably only major reference for knowing Matt as Matt (he probably knew matt a little through matt taking on other hero cases) is when Matthew is the PROSECUTOR / "For the People" attonery on the case and trial of Clint killing Bruce; which originally was looking at a possible death sentence, and heavily swaaying in the prosecutions favor. So much so that when brought up to Matt, he realizes that trial has not been fair/just. And the final time that DD and Hawkeye have crossed was when Matt headed the "Task Force" to hunt down and ended "Ronin's" activities in the city (this was when wilson fisk was mayor; so there was a major crack down on superheroes, both registered/super team and vigilantes with private/secret idenities).

So canonly, they don't have a lot going to thm, but like there is deftinitely something to be said between the two. As fanon expresses, you know they are Blind and Deaf, heroes with disabilties. That would be something for them talk about, to relate to in different ways, and ways with which means they do not mesh with the abled world. Additionally, and comics and otherwise, they are both kind of jerks who are disasters, who ultimately are at fault for their romantic relations failing. Additioanlly, they were both young boys mentored by older men (trickshot & swordsman, and stick), who manipulative and pseudo replacements for their dead fathers; whom ultimately when faced with their mentors again later in life, don't immediately see the manipulation or grooming done to them, or even forgive their mentors or their mentors are their weakness. i could also throw throw out. they both have major girlfriends that die that affeect for literal years in their comic canon. (bobbi & karen).

Going more specific with our boys, whom I love, and they havee a very time with each other. Clint's got some not unpacked religious feelings, because he grow up in middle of midwest, small conservative town iowa; he went to an orphange, Saint Ignautis, which sounds Catholic; and so there is something there that I have been thinking and exploring with Clint. I think he is raised under God, and he loses some of that faith and distance himself, andd more athetist in the sense that, he'd be anger with and think that god iss dead or abandonned, than anything else. So that's something that could be something between the two that gives them a deeper link, or thing to talk about with each other.

I think that with them, Clint and Matt kind of just happen, in this well that is the lawyer hired by the Avengers or other superheroes this one time or another; and Clint happens upon his offices or him in a bar, and Clint's a neighborly guy; teases Matt about lawyering for superheroe, but generally thinks he is an okay guy, and Clint doe his new age old gimmick of just "me? i'm just a guy" and that's how it is.

Then obivously, he knows Daredevil, DD's been invited to superhero functions and gatherings (i literally was just reading an issue where thre's a weddding with janet and yellowjacket who is hank; and you see DD in the background) cause vigilantes do get to weight and have a working relationship with super teams; and then Clint tends to cover Brooklyn and Manhattan (which hell's kitchen is a neighborhood in the manhattan borough) so he and DD end up running into each other, and on the occasion work together.

which only makes things awkward and funnyl; when clint is maybe dating one of Matt's idenities, and then runs into another. (the funniest thing is the idea of which clint finds out matt is dd. or dd is matt. is caue clint's "lips dont lie" (this is canon. this is canon. clint kissed "fake wanda (loki)" and immediately outed her as "not wanda" because he just knew by that kiss. has to kiss the other and he's likee "shit that's my boyfriend's lips" that'd be funny; but you know. eventually matt and dd are gonna collide in clint's life. but clint is good about secret idenities with people, and he tends to take reveals very well too.

i think of them just vibing on late nights, only form of communication between the two is touch; becaue clint's aids are out, so the only way matt reaches clint is touch, and through the same clint will reach matt with touch back. and both of their couchs are very familiar, and clint's allowed matt to rearrange his apartment and that's how everything stays, for the sake of matt when he's there, and clint will if asked ultimately givee up his apartment (not the building. he just won't be a live-in landlord) and be where his partner is. and just once they get over their (clint's) little egos and reasons to butt heads, soft and respecting, and i love them and it's your fault, ce (affectionate) <3

[lazaruspiss]

do u think jason’s similarities with bruce (they r so v similar imo, e.g their absoluteness, their “i know whats best for gotham”) plays a factor in how dick handles/views him?? whether dick is conscious or not abt those similarities

Oh that is an interesting point. To me Jason and Bruce manifest their absoluteness very differently? The simplest way of putting it is that Jason challenges where Bruce demands. Bruce asserts his way of doing things and expects others to follow bc its his way and hes in charge. Jason tells others that their way is ineffective and that they should leave him to do it right. Neither are very likeable in how they assert themselves, lol.

I think in his right mind and thinking logically Dick would understand that Jason and Bruce, despite any and all their similarities, are very different people. But that's just when he's in his right mind.

Depending on the type of stress and what Dick is dealing with at any current moment i think Jason has the potential to accidentally trigger him in a lot of ways and the potential to remind him of a lot of different people. There's the resemblance in the shallow ways, like his blunt way of talking and his Bruce sized shadow. Then there's Jason and Bruce's mutual tendency to brush people off rather than listen to whatever concerns they might have. Those things that could make them blend together in Dick's mind when he's too tired to manage it.

But I'd argue Jason's connection to Dick's moral dilemma over Blockbuster is more pressing. It's the most direct and easy connection for Dick to unconsciously slip into. Brothers in Blood might've unintentionally created a great reference point for that. Jason comes to NYC where Dick is trying to reestablish himself and starts killing in Dick's name. At one point Dick considers if it would be worth saving him when he knows Jason will continue killing. It's on a much smaller scale, but the resemblance to Blockbuster is there and I think that's the connection that puts Dick on edge around Jason the most. There's several parts where it is explicitly stated that Dick still cares about Jason and doesn't want him to be hurt. But the stress of Jason continuing to kill gets to Dick so badly that he considers letting him die.

I am still an absolute sucker for fics and art that have Dick see aspects of Bruce in Jason, but when I think about the canon surrounding their relationship I'd imagine that Dick might actually make more subconscious connections between Jason and Blockbuster which is. It's not something I've thought about much until rereading BiB recently but it's there and it makes me emo.

[bonesbuckleup]

i'm rereading like a hinge, like a wing and i'm morbidly curious about jason in this au. does he go to ethiopia/die in this universe? if not i'm curious what his future looks like. if he does, i wonder how his death would affect tim and bruce since tim joined the family early

First! Thank you for reading and rereading!

So. Fun fact. I set out to write the Like a Hinge sequel focusing on Dick and Tim having some shenanigans, but then Jason more or less kicked in the door and took it over completely. There are still Dick and Tim shenanigans...but there's also a lot of Jason stuff directly related to the answers to your questions. Meaning, I'm not gonna go too in depth answering this, but here's the shorter version! Some spoilers for the follow up fic if I ever get it finished and posted so if you're not interested in that don't read under the cut:

Everything with Garzonas happened a little over a year before Hinge

Jason had a ticket and a bag packed and was about to go, but his flight was delayed, and also Dick stayed on planet. Dick ends up talking him out of going, among other things.

Aka, along with me messing with their canon ages and many other little tweaks, Dick being home is where the timeline split and Jason did not go and didn't meet Sheila and did not die.

I have no plans on killing Jason, because I don't like killing characters as a general rule. However, kind of like taking away Tim's primary motivation of 'I need to save Batman', it does raise a lot of questions for how future!Jason operates if we take away Hood's primary motivation of 'I died and it changed nothing.' I think a lot of writers tend to think of Robin!Jason and Hood!Jason as two incredibly distinct characters, like they aren't the same person, and there is something to be said for that...but.

But.

The thing is, I really think that "Robin is Magic" Jason and "I'm the guy who can do what Batman can't" Jason can and should coexist in a grown/growing Jason who didn't die. He's 16/17 in this AU. He's figuring out his moral code. He's figuring out what kind of person he is going to be. And, while I don't think a Jason-who-didn't-die would go full Hood and end up with heads in a duffel bag, I do really, really think he still ends up leaning in that direction. It's just not as extreme. Because something that's intrinsic to Jason's character in any universe is that he's a real-world response and challenge to Bruce's rigid moral code in a way that Dick, Tim, Steph, Damian, etc are not.

(Also, like, the thing with trauma, big trauma like dying and coming back and realizing it was meaningless, is that it makes you feel like a different person...but you're still you. Jason doesn't become Hood because of pit madness or insanity or impulse. He becomes Hood because those seeds and the foundation of that worldview were kind of already there.

For me, it all comes down to those lines from Under the Red Hood: "Ignoring what he's done in the past. Blindly, stupidly disregarding the entire graveyards he's filled, the thousands who have suffered, the friends he's crippled. You know, I thought... I thought I'd be the last person you'd ever let him hurt. If it had been you that he beat to a bloody pulp, if he had taken you from this world, I would've done nothing but search the planet for this pathetic pile of evil, death-worshiping garbage and then send him off to hell!"

That's not Red Hood talking. That's all Jason. Because yeah, Robin's magic. But sometimes magic is doing the things that no one else can do, especially when some motherfucker messes with your family.)

[roobylavender]

Your post earlier made me think about how Bruce is really dedicated to learning and acquiring knowledge and how over the course of his life he has acquired a wide array of skills across multiple fields and it just really makes we want to see a version of Bruce who loses his wealth somehow and has to do a normal job in any field because I honestly think it'd pull him out of the doom and gloom mentality and make him genuinely happy. I'm not that far into my Batman reading but I really think it would be an interesting move to make Bruce a normal dude given all the discourse around billionaire superheroes right now and it's probably the best thing for his mental health/general issues to actually be around people.

I also would like to see how it would affect his relationships with his family, friends and allies because he would be out in a position to genuinely experience their reality. Also would love to see him get a job utilising one of his obscure skills that he genuinely likes. How do you think an arc of Bruce having to live like a normal person would go? I love your comic book insights and would love to hear your take

To clarify the previous ask I know he loses his money in current canon but he still seems to be a billionaire? I think? I don't know I cannot get through most modern comics. Anyways good luck with law school and I hope you have a nice day! 🌻🌻🌻

i'm not reading the current dc or batman run and haven't been for the past few years so i am as clueless as to that situation as you are! (and thank you for the well wishes hehe i am sat in criminal law right now utterly bored out of my mind)

i couldn't agree more though! a slight tangent to this idea but one criticism of the dark knight rises that i have noticed bleeds over into opinions of bruce's future in the comics is this idea that he can only ever be batman and if he does not intend to die as batman then the writer behind that decision has failed to understand his character. it's one i'm very confused by and heavily disagree with. before bruce is batman he's bruce. batman exists bc of bruce. it took at least a decade before the specific idea of batman was even implanted into bruce's head if we're going by classic takes on the batman origin story. he had interests before that! he had a life! we are able to see on several occasions that he still wants to have a life even though it grows increasingly difficult to do so while he takes responsibility for being the city's savior. which is what i think makes the concluding thesis of the dark knight rises (for all of its well-criticized flaws) so, so good bc it allows bruce to acknowledge that he doesn't have to carry the world on his shoulders alone, and that acknowledgment isn't reproachful in and of itself, esp where he has people to carry on the cause

i've talked here before about critics' attention to the nihilism of the nolan movies and their focus on the batman as a singular, crucial savior without whom the city falls to pieces, and i totally agree that criticism of building vigilantism on nihilism's foundations is viable. but i also think it's a criticism conveniently made for that movie bc the scope of bruce's immediate posse is incredibly limited. at most he is only ever closely accompanied by two people in any given movie so it's easier to be skeptical of the idea that gotham is presented to only ever need one savior bc there aren't many others to choose from. i do think the dark knight gets close at challenging that notion with the boats set-up towards the end but nolan fails to really see it through when he carries it forward via john blake, who is not only one person, but also a cop. there's a great idea there in bruce indirectly inspiring someone else to do good and act of his own volition but whether its impact is completely effective is debatable and i think most people would agree using the actual robin would have been a far better alternative. the novelty of batman comics in comparison to the nolan trilogy is that superheroes are everywhere. people who do good are everywhere. we are all heroes inherently if we so choose to be. bruce has an entire support system he can trust to carry forward the same faith and duty that he has been for years if he happens to lose it all or need a break or whatever

and i know you're only specifically talking about him losing his wealth so my sincere apologies for going off on such a wild tangent lol! but i do imagine the loss of wealth or even voluntary removal from it would be attached to a departure from batman as well, whether temporary or permanent. i think there's an interesting thread to follow there with how bruce's wealth not only isolates him from certain realities but also enables his dedication to being batman bc he simply always has material and resources at his disposal by way of that wealth (he kind of has to bc otherwise he's more exposedly human). what does he do when he doesn't have immediate access to those things? how does his awareness of ordinary people's circumstances increase and how does that in turn influence the way he chooses to live going forward? it's a really great way to connect him more deeply to people like selina and leslie whose entire survival is premised on their brutal understanding of normalcy and its tension with survival in a place that is anything but normal. bruce has a good head on his shoulders and an even more sympathetic heart but i want to see him really come face to face with the things that only ever exist in his periphery bc his attachment to resources always demands that he fights the foes to match those resources. get him involved with the community on the ground and lead his inclination towards good will to its natural conclusion of people interaction. bc bruce loves people! he craves companionship. if he could spend the rest of his life working with people and for people i think he would. so on the note of what i think he would do i genuinely feel like bruce would love anything to do with community service. involvement in things like student mentorship programs are great bc they're a huge well of creativity for teachers trying to inspire kids to be passionate about their interests and skills. and bruce definitely has the experience from how he trains his robins (esp how he used to in the olden days when it was all chummy gymnastics and boxing friendlies!)