#calling it a lack of media literacy is me being generous

[andthroughthewire]

Speaking of bad takes, the amount of people who took Kim’s self loathing speech in F+G as “actually I was always using you” is baffling

Between that, others saying Kim's role in the story was over and a sizeable portion of the subreddit refusing to believe Gus was flirting with the waiter until Gould confirmed the obvious on a podcast, it was a bad week for media literacy.

[pretty-weird-ideas]

IWTV Twitter and the so-called "Fake Black Fans" Invasion

Something that I've been seeing a lot after it gained traction on Max is white fans condescendingly talking down to Black fans, some of whom have been in this fandom longer than they have, and acting as if they don't know what they are talking about because of their critique including a concept or subtext they wish to ignore. I want to repeat that this doesn't happen in the same amounts to white fans who make analyses or memes, it seems to uniquely be Black fans speaking AAVE or with Black pfps (visibly black bc of this) being bombed in the comments for having valid opinions.

I reached about the fifth tweet of white women going onto posts of Black people (particularly older women on Black Twitter) talking about IWTV and saying "You don't know what you're talking about, read the source material/finish the show" or entirely saying that "You don't understand fandom culture". Prompting those Black people to respond curtly that they, in fact, have read the source material, finished the show long before they have, and have been a fandom elder since before they even rolled into town. I witnessed someone doing BABY talk to a 30-year-old Black woman who was talking about episode 5, with "Well you see, it's not my fault you can't read". And when the woman professed anger back, she was the one blocked.

I witnessed this backhanded shit FIVE TIMES over the course of this week. With different white women doing the job of whitesplaining fandom culture and Anne Rice to random Black fans who already know unprompted with a level of passive aggressiveness and annoyance that only comes with doing it repeatedly. I must assure you (white people who are doing this) nobody asked, you can put down your task and stop pretending like you are doing something Sisyphean. You are not legally required to explain and describe IWTV poorly while getting into screaming matches with far more educated Black fans on Twitter and Tumblr.

People are acting as if there's a rising population of Black fans who are "Fake Fans" and must be stopped, lest they start up the freaky discourse. OOHHH NOOOO! Whatever are we to do then???? And therefore it is completely normal and a civic duty to blast Black fans in the comments of everything that they say about the show or the books.

I've been seeing people unironically football tackle reaction posts of the show with paragraphs worth of text that is inflammatory and backhanded. This is even more apparent when the poster is visibly black or uses AAVE. The association is that Black people who use AAVE or memes obviously are uneducated, lack media literacy, and cannot consume content the way that "White" fans do.

It is an attempt to tone police Black fans away from creating new topics of discussion or creating/expanding the fandom space with the growing watcher-base. It always has to happen in their chosen language, on their time, in the places they can reach us and yell some more. They are very discomforted when Black fans have pockets in fandom where they can't be outnumbered and they do in fact control discourse in a way that isn't productive to respectability. (As much as I am a big fan of big words and rambling, that is somewhat what is expected in this fandom as a Black person to be considered "respectable" and I'm not willing to ignore or shy away from that).

This is also hand in hand with my previous thoughts about fans' dog-whistling about media becoming accessible/mainstream and how "Others" will ruin it and outnumber them. I noticed that in the IWTV fandom, it seems like white fans believe that the "Others" is just Black Twitter in general. Not just "Twitter" but specifically Black people who don't fit into their narrow respectability politics.

I hate to tell you all this, but Black fandom culture is still fandom culture, and Black people do in fact read and write. I should not be seeing a pattern of random white fans going into the comments of Black people who mention IWTV and automatically assuming that they have no clue what they're talking about.

Like clockwork, exactly as when the show came out, racist white book fans started up the discourse of "The Black people are going to ruin fandom with their racism discourse and spit on Anne Rice!" and then when that time passed, the show reaches Max, and here they go barking again.... We really need to get a muzzle.

[night-market-if]

Helloo, while I agree with you that Milo is also a victim, I also think that the other anons are also justified in feeling that way about him. I'm really sorry if I'm wrong, but the way you reply to other people's thoughts, about things that you don't have the same opinion on, feels like you're telling them that they are wrong to feel that way.

Let's unpack this for a minute. Because I think this is a great opportunity.

I am not invalidating that anyone has an opinion. They are allowed to have an opinion. And, if they approached me like you just did, I would most likely respond to that opinion in a constructive way. But someone messaging me and just throwing out a random feeling they have that is negative, and then getting mad at me in return when I don't agree with them, is childish. I will not be apologizing for that because most of the people that are "angry" about something, come at me in a really negative context. And then when I state something differently (without attacking them even) they get irrationally upset. I mean, a prime example is me saying that Milo is also a victim. That there can be more than one victim. I then got a response saying I was the one flying off the handle. Following that was another response telling me that I am a hated author. That my game is terrible. That I am a bad person. I mean, think about that for a minute here. Does the response corelate with what I said? Does it warrant that? No.

People are always valid to have an opinion, but there are two things to say about it. Most of the time, the people coming at me, are internet trolls. Not actual readers. And I'm sorry, we were indoctrinated at a young age to "ignore the bullies" and I just don't think that is the right response. Because now we have a generation that ignored the bullies and they got way worse because no one had a social contract to call them out.

Two, the ones that are not trolls, are lacking a lot of media literacy. That is actually an extreme problem within our society. And, since I am the author, it is my job to offer what I was trying to say within my story. That may not align with someone's opinion. But me having my own opinion, does not warrant someone getting mad at me. I didn't get mad at them so why am I suddenly greeted with toxicity.

I get where you are coming from saying that people are allowed to have their own opinion. And I have stated over and over again that everyone is valid for it. I'm not even saying for someone to change their mind or go away. But, someone else's opinion does not invalidate my own. Just as my own does not invalidate theirs. And if someone feels like it does, and this is going to sound cruel, but it is not my responsibility to regulate that for them. That most likely stems from a personal standpoint. I am not responsible for someone being offended by what I have to say about my own story and my own fictional characters. You don't see me coming on here and crying out that someone on anon made me "feel bad". That's not a thing.

There is a difference between just saying something out loud and engaging in a conversation. Constructive criticism is where you offer a opinion, give why you are offering it, and then explain how it does or does not work for the narrative. Then, I can come back, ask questions, respond with what maybe I was intending, and figure out a better way to get what I was intending across.

Non constructive criticism is just coming to me as an anon, and saying they are angry and want to hurt someone. Or that they don't like something of my story without giving why.

To further some points. Milo is a triggering character. I knew this from the beginning. The things that he did is not for the faint of heart and speaks to betrayal. And a lot of people who have been in a situation where they feel betrayed, are going to respond negatively to that. But, that is on them. That is for them to work through and own. It is not the responsibility of my story to change because of that. And coming on to say that you hate a character and want to harm them. Or coming on to say that I'm a bad writer. Or even coming on to say that I'm hated on reddit (to which I say, isn't everyone?) is providing nothing to this community, world, or our author reader relationship. It is done solely with the intent to try and hurt someone because the reader themselves was hurt.

To end this, I am going to make this statement. Telling me it "feels" like I am telling someone they are wrong is based in a personal feeling towards a situation. It is not based in facts. It is not based in anything that I have said. And while everyone has a right to their opinion, just because I am an author and a content creator, does not mean I don't get to defend my story or my characters. If I was being racists, sexist, transphobic? All things to come at someone for. But because I wrote something that makes people angry and they don't want to continue going on a journey with the characters and would rather just block their minds to character growth? I can't do anything about that. If there is no conversation they want to engage in, if they simply want to come on and troll me, then they need to not be surprised when I treat them the same way they are treating me.

I hope this makes more sense and provides some understanding.

Zinnia

[bubblinelovechild]

The RWBY fandoms treatment of Adam makes me very uncomfortable

This is very long sorry I was rambling <3

There’s something really odd about the dedication RWBY fans have to hating Adam. So much so that they’ll admit the writing of the WF is racist but refuse to admit that Adam a member of the white fang also suffered from that racist writing.

There’s this weird dedication to pretending there are no problems with the choices made around Adams character and vilifying literally everyone who tries to talk about it, for the sake of continuing to blindly hate him. The fandom seems to struggle with understanding that the show is fictional and everything that happens in it is a direct choice of its writers. Y’all talk about Adam like he is a real person who has personally offended you irl. Just a huge lack of media literacy tbh.

A white man wrote a civil rights group, that he admittedly based off the black panthers, as the generic bad guys of his shitty anime knockoff and made a central theme of the show the idea that fighting against your oppression violently makes you just as bad if not worse than your oppressors. Then he mad the leader of that group a generic abusive meanie bad guy. Who essentially is what white supremacists think civil rights activist are all the way down to being the fictional equivalent of a black supremacist.

When there was backlash to this he made a knockoff Malcom X and then killed her in her only scene and made a character whose ideology is basically sit down and lick the feet of your oppressors and had the audacity to say he was based off of MLK. How the fuck do you base a character off of somebody without doing basic research on them because contrary to what people seem to believe MLK was not a doormat and this is a conversation for a different day but I’m sick and tired of his memory being weaponised against black people.

What’s worse is that Adam is the only character portrayed as actually doing something to fight racism. Ghira’s faction is only ever seen fighting against other groups. I don’t know if y’all know this but that’s not how the civil rights movement worked. Most of the leaders didn’t agree on methods but they coexisted because the main goal was the liberation of black people and they knew they had to coexist. MLK did not go around calling the cops on revolutionaries he disagreed with.

The problems with Adam and the WF are not separate and cannot be. Most of what’s wrong with the Faunus plot line is the way the show handles Adam. The choices made with his writing cannot be separated from those they made with the WF overall. Adams choice to kill his attackers to keep himself and other Faunus safe, from people literally trying to kill them, is treated the way it is because of the stance they took with WFs writing. When Adam kills a human supremacist trying to kill Ghira you’re supposed to see it as an extreme and the beginning of his turn to evil. Adam isn’t a real person every descisiom he makes is informed by the white writers of the show. Why would the bias they displayed writing the WF not apply to him?

Some of you have been abused and relate to Blake in that sense, a lot of you seem to be projecting your abusers onto Adam. I’m sorry you went through that but you are not excused from buying into racist rhetoric. It’s incredibly uncomfortable as a black person to watch people talk about how “healing” it was for them to watch a civil rights leader admittedly inspired by black people slapped around and killed by two white women. It is anger inducing to watch fans celebrate “queer representation” dancing on the corpse of a monumental disrespect to black people and our history.

RWBY doesn’t even handle abuse well tbh and most of the queer rep is not that great, there are many shows that do it so much better, there is actually no excuse for hanging on to the black people are bad for fighting against racism show.

[galedekarios]

I'm not sure if you've seen this going around, but apparently after the new patch, there are people going super pro Gale and Mystra getting back together and acting like she didn't abuse him??? And the worst part is people claiming the player is just who he settles for because Mystra won't take him back and he'll never love the player as much and. I'm going to have an aneurysm. The way I'm suddenly seeing people blaming GALE and calling MYSTRA a victim. Please keep in mind, he can only go back to Elysium if he is the players avatar. And they're saying this is the best ending for him and he was never abused.

I'm so sorry for this rant but I'm SO aggravated by this and I just know if this was a certain other character then this would get people torn to shreds. I'm tired.

don't worry, anon. you can always vent in my inbox. 🖤

as to your ask:

i did see the new added effects and animations to the ending. the ending for origin gale had existed prior to patch 6 already, but they expanded on it with vfx.

my opinion on this personally is:

overall, this changes nothing for me about how deeply imbalanced and terrible their relationship is, nor does it change what mystra did to him, or how she conducts herself within the context of game canon, the decisions she makes and the things she says.

larian can add as many purple sparkles as they want to it - make them heart-shaped next them, too. it changes nothing.

It doesn’t change the fact that she is a goddess. a goddess who sent her chosen to him at 8 years old and made him her lover at some point in time after that. it doesn't change the fact that she was his teacher first, then his mentor, and then changed that intrinsically already imbalanced relationship (which is not even touching on the divine aspect) into that of lovers. it doesn't change the history she has had with her other chosen and what she did to them.

it's an ending that is viscerally uncomfortable to watch in this context and to me, it’s an abuser regaining power over their victim. a victim who, by the end of the game, still hasn't fully realised what has happened to him. the player can set companion gale on the path to it, and some things he comes to see, but there's a lot of healing still left to do.

i also want to add that what people claim doesn't really matter to me in this context, especially if it's what you outlined. so many reads and takes of gale show a complete lack of reading and listening comprehension and general media literacy. a shiny 'new' cutscene tends to do that, too. it happened before when patch 5 and the epilogue released.

i do feel you on being tired though. they fumbled gale's storyline in act iii and it results in a complete 180 from act i and ii. this only adds to it.

other posts than mine have detailed it far better. i don't have to spoons at the moment to rehash it all, but i would recommend reading @messiahzzz's post on gale and mystra's relationship as well as this one here. i also have a post on mystra, elminster, raphael and gale with info from the epilogue here.

[olderthannetfic]

Daily accs have ruined the fandom experience.

Fandom is just generally so boring and I'm speaking as someone who's queer, ND, disabled, and POC. "Headcanons" now lack flavors. Headcanons now are limited to just making the characters non-white, cis, straight, neurotypical, and abled. Where's the plot? The elaboration? And I don't just mean "I hc him as autistic and he has alexithymia."

As someone who's autistic and alexithymic there are lots of experiences that come from being alexithymic that no one person who's alexithymic experiences the same way even when there are common traits. In fact, most of the time I don't use the medical terms and just describe the character having these traits AND THEN describe how it's relevant to the plot bunny and maybe even use canon sources to elaborate why I think this character can be or is [identity]-coded. I don't just make posts generating various labels everyday or every HOUR: "this character is [x]." and call it a day.

Not to mention lots of people are saying these HCs are the only acceptable kind of HCs because the others are problematic or harmful. They always put it in the bio, "no harmful or problematic HC," "proshipper DNI", "no [link to a card with a list of headcanons lots of people are doing].

There are open antis who are constantly making "reminders" or "hot takes", and there are covert antis who act as if they are making "content" but they are literally just spamming posts like the one I told above and attacking people in the comment section or up-ing other people's call-out posts by engaging or reposting. Antis have been creating an environment where even wanting to Headcanon is scary. It also conditioned people to like only these types of HCs and I would've been elated for some rep a few years ago but the lack of nuance is just irritating and disappointing. Ironically, I can not relate with any of these headcanons because homophobia (which was a popular tag on AO3 because it's relatable to a lot of queer folks like me) is problematic (literally had someone tell me about an AO3 tag statistics, "homophobia shouldn't be a popular tag). The lack of media literacy has people saying making an x trope is endorsing.

I keep finding anon fics or private fics on AO3, going into fandoms where people are more comfortable sharing fics thru discord servers, DMs, linked write/as posts, because my ships keep getting harassed or scrutinized by antis (even when they are not minors, don't have age gaps, incest, or are rivals), and I keep seeing more and more people say they are discouraged to engage in fandom activity at all.

Somehow this is familiar as a queer person who was in the closet and had to hide all my poetry because ofc my own people (I assume they are mostly queer like me too cuz a lot of them identify as one and put it in their bio) makes me feel unsafe LOL/sarcasm

--

[galaxygolfergirl]

To the “Pureshippers”…

Listen. I know what kind of fandom I'm in. I've been on this website for over a decade. I don't participate as much as I used to, I admit it. I've grown, my tastes have changed, I've nurtured my passions, and I understand you guys are passionate as well. I've already explained my feelings on Helsa and the treatment of Hans's character, you can click the link in case you need to read that again.

All I can say at this point is no.

Just no.

Stop it.

Please stop taking this so seriously. This is embarrassing and childish behavior over what is essentially a hobby. Harassing artists, stealing their work and not giving credit for it, fighting with other people in the fandom over whether or not they're "loyal" to Helsa, and blatantly ignoring the text and insisting people follow your own headcanons is not respectfully participating in fandom.

Listen, Frozen and Helsa respectfully are near and dear to my heart but I'm not going to pretend that it's the most revolutionary media and ship to ever have been created. Yes, it has vast potential for fan creations and ideas, but remember, this is a franchise targeted and marketed to little girls. Please calm down.

When I was younger, I used to let my emotions get the better of me; I bought into the rumor mills and expressed my frustrations on the lack of news during F2's development and how my ship wasn't becoming canon faster. I would freak out at any remote "hint" of it being possible and forgot what the text of the movie actually said. I was a young teenager who eventually had to learn over time how to temper my emotions and engage in media more constructively.

If you want to continue to participate in this fandom and in other fandom spaces and not run the risk of people getting mad at you, you need to respect that,

Other people may not be as invested as you, and that's okay.

Headcanons are in your head, that's why they're called head canons. Not everyone is going to agree on the same thing and that's okay.

You absolutely must credit the original artist, no matter if their artwork is "popular" enough to steal from. It’s a bad look and you cannot get away with that. That is disrespectful to their time and effort for their craft. That's not okay.

We have to have a sense of emotional maturity and media literacy here, not just for this little microcosm of fandom, but for investing in all media in general.

Don't buy into the rumor mills or people claiming they have "insider information" on plot developments that support your headcanons. They're lying and they just want attention. If they didn't come true when the last movie came out, they certainly won't come true this time.

Again, please put things into a larger perspective. I'm not trying to be the morality police here, but this is a Disney princess movie, it's not classic literature. Please don't take this so seriously.

Taking your frustrations out on the Frozen creative team, fandom creators, and other participants in the fandom is not going to make your case or help anything. If anything, you're coming across as intimidating and aggressive, and creators don't really react well to that.

You also do not have the right to disagree with people if they say you're making them uncomfortable. You cannot control how people react to your behavior. You only have control over your behavior and how you react to others. You're responsible for your words and your actions and you have to own up to that. Whether or not you choose to reflect on that and remediate it, you must respect people's boundaries if you're making them uncomfortable. You know who you are.

Once again, it's not up to the fans how a story should be written. We are not entitled to make the creators do what we want.

With that being said, if all of this is too overwhelming for you guys, or if you disagree with anything I've said here, or you're mad at me now, fine. To each your own. You're entitled to your own opinion, but don't expect the rest of us to participate or engage with you any longer.

We all came into this side of the fandom for different reasons, but the plurality of us came here for fun. If you're not having fun, please leave us alone and find people with whom you get along with better.

And that's last I'm going to say on this. If you @ me looking for some kind of fight, don't bother. I don't have the time nor do I care to. Thank you.

[franzkafkagf]

Just a little disclaimer I’m not asking this question to try to come across as hurtful or anything like that. But I was wondering how as an Aegon-stan his treatment of women can make you have a very nuanced opinion of him? :o

- Personally I’m TB but do have empathy for some TG-characters. I do like Aegon as an antagonist and I do feel for his very toxic and harmful upbringing but due to his violent behavior towards women.. I just can’t really connect that well with him ����

Hi! Thank you for your ask :) Super interesting question actually! I have written some things for him in the past, talking about what exactly fascinated me about his character so much ( exhibit one, two three, four and five )

I also urge you to listen to Tom talk about Aegon; this man gets him as a character so well and says it better than I ever could. Some interviews found here, here and here

I can understand not being able to connect with him because of his treatment of Dyana— it's an unforgiveable thing he has done to her and might have done to others. But in spite of that, he is still just a character. Everything he does is meant to inform us about his certain traits he has, even the ugliest of things.

What does it tell us about Aegon? He is entitled, doesn't take things seriously, he is indulgent and does not see Dyana (or other smallfolk for that matter) as a real person (succession reference wink wink)

I wouldn't call his behavior towards women in general toxic though— I actually think he is somewhat demure when faced with women like his mother, Rhaenyra and also Helaena. He seems to kick down most of the time, while trying to get recognition from the ones he sees as peers or above him.

If you look at the culture he was raised in, it's not really a surprise he turned out the way he did, seeing women beneath him as something he can just take if he likes to. Westeros is cartoonishly misogynistic; traditions like First Night or the prevelance of brothels filled with women working under harsh indentures show that.

Young men of noble origin seem to see visits to brothels (again, filled with women that do not want to be there) as a normal past time activity; it's so prevalent that it's surprising if a young nobleman does not participate. Now, I do not want to excuse his actions, but seeing the culture he grew up him and the influences around him? -> He probably thinks this is normal behaviour, disturbingly.

On a bit different note, I want to talk about his relationships. A thought I see often echoed in the fandom is the headcanon that Aegon is violent towards Helaena when that... was never stated anywhere? Now I'm probably biased because I'm a big Helaegon girl but I don't see him being violent with his sister.

People say he impregnated her at 13 when.. he was also just a 15 year old boy? He did not want to marry her! Both literally did not and could not consent to what happened to them, I think it's so sad that people try to demonize a child who just did what was demanded from him from all the adults in his life :(

(like yes tell me about how one of these KIDS forced himself on the other out of fully selfish desire and pure evil. you're so smart and do not lack media literacy whatsoever)

The dinner scene literally shows Helaena laugh at Aegon's antics until he goes a step too far w Baela, and what does Helaena do? She clowns him in front of everyone with her toast. And what does he do? He just takes it... not the behaviour of an evil abusive man but the delulus will swear otherwise.

People will also try to twist her crying at the coronation as some depressive moment for her where she realizes that he will have the ultimate power over her when that's LITERALLY just a (very boring) headcanon. It's hinted at in the text and literally written out in the script that she is scared, because she knows what crowning him means; the dance cannot be stopped. That's all, that's why she's crying. She feels like their end is near.

All in all I think no one can change your mind on how you feel about Aegon; what he did IS unforgivable, but I hope you see a bit of my pov here too. Seeing the nuance in deeply flawed characters and digging to find hidden depths in them is something I'm very passionate about! My Aegon girlie mutuals and me will be feasting come season 2 🙏

[pebblysand]

Hello hello! So i finished reading ch 22, and i have a lot of thoughts, but one that I kept thinking about, and i don´t know if this was intentional or not, is Robard's character, and how it reminded me of jkr, and her public opinions and persona these last years. How she gradually (and not so gradually, lately) became a transphobic bigot, basically. And i always thought "how did you get there, jk? where you always like this? or you became like this because of the way people harrased you over some tweets?" (i actually don't know, i hadn't read her twitter for years up until today out of curiosity, and... 😬) I kind of felt that with robard's character, i loved that, really. Felt, like most of your story, very realistic. Anyway, i wish you a great weekend full of delicious food, drinks, and whetever you consider fun 🤠

hello! thank you, i'm glad you enjoyed!

this is such an interesting question and one that i've meaning to post about for a long time but have been - i must admit - a bit of a coward about, lately. addressing JKR on tumblr one way or another is always a sure way to get anon death threats in your inbox, an experience that i've had in the past and wasn't keen on repeating. but i think this needs to be said, and it needs to be said publicly.

so, to answer your question, no, this wasn't per se intentional. i didn't set out to have a parallel between robards and JKR, although now that you mention it, i think my thoughts about JKR may have permeated his storyline subconsciously because yes, you're totally correct, there is definitely a parallel there. and, i think your question of: "jo, how did you get there?" is probably one of the most important unaddressed questions of our time.

i've been reading a lot of takes on tumblr lately. metas and purported text analyses that say stuff like: "umbridge is represented as being feminine and having a high-pitched voice, therefore JKR hates women because she thinks femininity is evil" or, "hermione is ugly and therefore JKR hates women because she thinks women have to be ugly to be clever/successful," or "JKR didn't say dumbledore was gay until after the books came out, therefore she is homophobic," etc. and, while i think people are free to disagree with me and i don't want to single anyone out, i think these takes are at best misguided. at worst, a bit dangerous.

misguided because frankly, reading the text and JKR's actions in that way is, imo, demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of history, the publishing industry, artistic creation and symbolism, and overarching themes of the work. it's taking elements of a narrative completely out of context and making them fit into a specific agenda. this idea that: HP is a terrible story, the author is evil, has always been evil, and anyone who still enjoys this work is a bigot. it's an insane take to have when talking about one of the most popular and critically acclaimed coming-of-age saga of the twenty-first century. hermione is a very feminist character. umbridge is also a very feminist character. they are both, of course, subject to the implicit biases of their times and have to be read and studied critically within that framework, but failing to understand the intentions behind their creation shows - again, in my opinion - a very dire lack of media literacy.

having said that, if those takes were just plain wrong, i wouldn't mind them as much - after all, i'm a massive believer in people's right to be wrong. but where i think these takes really pause a problem is that as i've said before, the underlying goal is to prove, by taking things completely out of context, that JKR was "always like this." i personally think that's a terribly dangerous argument to make.

because, the truth is: she wasn't always like this. JKR was a feminist. she was a leftist, a militant. someone who wrote one of the largest odes to love and tolerance and respect that our generation has known. she called to vote labour, advocated for social policies, gave huge amounts of money to incredibly good causes, and was an inspiration and model for thousands of young girls and women worldwide (myself included), both through her own success, and through the strength of the female characters she created. she had her flaws, of course. her belief that motherhood is the ultimate goal is problematic. her urge to take down pornographic fanfiction that involved her works in the early 2000s was unfortunate. but generally speaking, she was not always a bigot. she became one. and that is essential.

i think we too often see JKR as the cause of the problem. and, these days, it's true, to some extent, she is the cause of the problem. she funds abhorrent organisations which tragically seek to undermine trans rights, she uses her twitter platform to spread awfully bigoted ideas and is now slowly falling into antisemitism. but i think what we miss with the above is that she isn't just the cause of the problem, she is also a symptom. just like women who fall into MLMs are both perpetrators of financial abuse to the women in their downline, but also being abused by the system themselves.

JKR is the most famous and tragic example of a trend i've personally seen happen around me time and time again, of formerly left-wing people in her generation and older, slowly falling into conspiracy theories, bigotry and racism. of people who used to be sane moderates (either on the right or the left) now sliding further and further to the right.

i think it is very easy to dismiss these people by saying "they were always racists" or "they were always homophobic/hateful of women" when, in fact, that is not true. were they flawed and were some of their opinions imperfect? sure. but at the core, these people were progressives in their time. but they totally missed the train of modern progressivism. worse, they’re now actively going against it. and by saying they were always like this, we are steering away from studying the real cause of the problem, asking why these people became like this (as you put it: "how did you get there?") and looking for a solution, instead of writing them off as crazies.

i think regarding JKR, we can have conversations about how/why she became like this, although i think a lot of people online are not yet ready to have this conversation. i personally doubt there is a single cause. having read the ink black heart recently, i think two things appear clear to me. 1) she is chronically online to a truly terrifying degree, and this is coming from me, another truly chronically online person. 2) she has reached a level of fame and fortune and isolation that means she is now surrounded by yes-sayers, and is not exposed to much contradiction. i also think it is undeniable that there is a world of difference between the beliefs she expressed in the 2020 essay, which were misguided and potentially harmful, but not hateful, and the current state of her twitter account. as someone who has experienced death threats from trans activists before, i do sympathise with the fact that it’s hard to build empathy with people who yell in your mentions that you should die (in my case, simply for writing HP fanfic). whilst i obviously have managed to maintain empathy and understand that in some ways, this extreme reaction is the unfortunate pendent of the hate trans people and activists themselves receive and the work of a very loud minority, my experience is nothing like the scale of what she experienced. whilst i still think she was slipping into transphobia way before the onslaught of hate she received, i can’t imagine this helped.

but again, i think what is important to understand and realise is that this phenomenon goes beyond internet hate, and goes beyond JKR herself. i always think of my mum's best friend when i think of this. she's eighty-three now but in her day, was a hardcore, bra-burning feminist. she was childfree by choice in a time where that was not an accepted choice, and is one of the strongest, most open-minded people i used to know. yet, a couple years ago, i went to her house on holiday and she explained to me straight up that she'd fired her cleaner for wearing the hijab, saying "i don't want people like that in my house." and, of course, this is abhorrent (and also illegal) but like JKR, like millions of people, she didn't use to be like that. she became like that. and it is fucking dangerous, in my opinion, to pretend like these périple were always these worthless bigots, instead of asking the right questions. "why?" and, also "how can we get them back?"

and, you're right: robards's trajectory in castles is a bit like that. because i think i’ve been thinking about this a lot lately, and again, because i’ve not expressed these thoughts out loud, they might have influenced my writing. and whilst robards in castles was always a bit more on the conservative side, he was someone who fought in the war. he was someone who fought with harry to open the muggle unit, etc. but somewhere along the way, he took a right turn that, again, millions of people in the real world have taken. and there is such a strong drive, right now, to write these people off. to think they are not worth the light of day, and are completely unsalvageable. and, there is such a strong pressure from a very vocal minority of millennial and gen z liberals to just cut ties with everyone and everything problematic. these injunctions to hate JKR and everything she's ever produced, to get rid of your HP tattoos, to stop writing fanfic, is the same as the injunction people make to stop talking to and cut off your racist relatives. and, if you don't do these things, you're a Bad Person™, a Bad Liberal.

first of all, this is frustrating because this sounds a lot to me like a "holier than thou" mentality that has plagued my catholic upbringing. this air of superiority about who is or isn't more of a sinner drives me nuts, and frankly, i've no interest in living in a "perfect" world of only interacting with the most "pure" individuals and materials amongst us. i find that these people are transposing values of fundamentalist religion into the left-leaning sphere in a way that is deeply grossing me out. i do not need a morality lesson, i certainly do not need to be told how to be a Good Liberal or a Good Feminist.

but i also think that this idea of just dismissing the way older generations are slowly falling into the traps of the far right and of bigotry as "they're just old" and "they should just die out" is also deeply misguided. because, again, this is preventing us from looking at the root cause of the problem. and, who's to guarantee that the disease won't spread further? i find it deeply optimistic and borderline deluded to think that we can just let boomers die out and that Everything Will Be Fine. bigotry and racism are a gangrene that spreads and slowly permeates every layer of society. i would know - i grew up in a region of france that was always far-right leaning, and i've watched that disease spread and spread to other regions, other branches of society, in the past twenty years. and believing that this won't touch younger generations, or permanently change the way we think, is a fallacy. we're seeing it happen in france right now. bardella, the new far right leader, is 28 and is now reaching french gen z on tiktok, and it's fucking working! more and more young people are voting for these candidates. and what's the plan here? are we just going to let them die out or further ostracise them too? write them off as permanently morally corrupt? send them death threats to change their mind like so many people did for JKR and her people?

it would be awfully presumptuous of me to pretend like i have the solution here. i don't. and whilst robards isn’t a character that is important enough for me to give him a redemption storyline, it doesn’t mean we should stop trying in the real world. and, trust me, i know it's hard to continue interacting with these people. as i said, i grew up around them and have struggled with holding back screams all my life. when my mum's best friend said what she said, it took everything i had in me not to just walk out. but we've got to keep trying. we've got to keep loving. i still love her. she's still one of the most important, foundational people in my life. and i still love JKR, in a way. i hate what she's saying, but i still believe a change is possible. or else, we're just giving up on humanity.

[kooki914]

you should make a spamton rant. rip him apart and tell the world every intimate reason he is a disreputable and immoral individual who got exactly what he deserved. we need more spamton hate in this community. people obviously dont understand just how bad he can be

Seeing as the blog that sent this is empty, and the phrasing of this ask is downright comical, I'm willing to bet this is rage bait.

If not, I'm genuinely sorry you think like this, random person, because my dislike of Spamton is, you guessed it, subjective! Just like every opinion about a fictional character, it's entirely up to the reader to form their own thoughts and decide if they like them or not, if they'd put up with their actions or not, and if the context we're provided makes their actions justified or unforgivable to you. Opinions are flexible and valid, and even change over time!

Now excuse me as I write an essay in response to this general concept because you HAVE baited me, just not in the way you wanted.

I'd like to take a moment to comment on the absolute state of discussing "character good/character bad" in fandoms, especially nowadays. Because of the increased politicization of fandom culture, it almost feels like people treat fandom discourse as inherently political and just as serious. And, while I'd love to talk about the rampant misogyny in fandom or how homophobia still permeates even in progressive spaces, I'm specifically referring to the moralization of media engagement.

The "you can't watch this" or "you have to watch this", the people in the old undertale fandom who'd tell you you're a bad person if you decided to play through the no mercy route, the people in current deltarune fandom talking about how Kris' race ambiguity makes Toby Fox racist, and, in this case, someone trying to bait ME into moralizing my opinion of Spamton for the sake of a "gotcha" or fodder for their hatred of me. Sorry to disappoint, I don't think Spamton is reprehensible in our, practical, human terms.

He's just some fictional guy who did shitty stuff to a bunch of kids and kind of got his comeuppance in the end. That exact description applies to him, Spade King, and undertale Asgore even though they're entirely different characters. And, also, I fucking ADORE Spade and Asgore, but my subjective opinion, the Vibe Check if you will, is that Spamton is worse than them. I think we can all agree that In Real Life murder of 6 children is obviously worse than being a con artist. However, this is also fiction, and those deaths shouldn't be treated with the SAME severity as actual, real crimes against humanity should be. They are severe, yes, and breaches of morality, but not REAL morality. Actual children weren't harmed in the making of undertale, believe it or not. These reprehensible actions from the cast are narrative vessels meant to show us the state of mind a character is and how far they're willing to go.

I think Spamton's desperation for reaching his "heaven" is disturbing because he was willing to extort and kill a child for it. In the same vain, I think Asgore is a coward for choosing to go through with his plan when the human that walked into his throne room was a literal child and not someone deserving of the death penalty, which happened 7 separate times. The difference is, I like Asgore and dislike Spamton. Not for moral reasons. Just Vibes.

This ask was 100% spurred on by the video I made about shadow crystals and secret bosses. It's kind of telling of their lack of media literacy, how this (practically) anon took nothing away from that video except "this guy thinks Spamton sucks", because that was decidedly not the point. Even during my rant about him in the video, when I call him a bad person I am simply stating in-universe facts. Things that most people who like Spamton as a character rather than a poor little meow meow can agree DID happen, and DOES make him morally grey. And this is where the politicization of fandom comes in again, because I only felt the need to add that rant into that section because there's SO many people who feel the need to justify liking immoral characters by making them super not bad at all - talking about the grey as if it's white, and if you point out the darker shades, they think you're trying to paint over all of it with black.

The people who over-exaggerate how tragic Spamton's or Spade King's lives were, the ones who justify reprehensible actions through "but he's mentally ill!" (even though a sentiment like that just further stigmatizes mental illness but that's a different topic), the people that say "X character did nothing wrong" without a twinge of irony in their tone.

Spamton is not Satan. He's also not a flawless angel.

The complete loss of being able to view a character as both Bad and Likable at the same time is tragic to me, because 90% of the characters I adore are bad, reckless, stupid, selfish, downright EVIL sometimes, and even if they may be lonely or misunderstood underneath it all, that is NOT something that erases their flaws! The whole POINT of moral grayness and complexity in characters is that we learn to take the good AND the bad in stride. Where do you draw a line in the sand? Does their charisma make them lovable enough to you that you want to keep watching them do The Bad Thing as long as they're having fun with it? Or does their grappling with and regret of The Bad Thing make them so emotionally compelling to you that you want to see where they'll go next, no matter the morality of their future actions?

If you like Spamton, more power to you. If you're in love with the weird funny little puppet man, even better, live your best life. But, for the love of god, engage with him as the character he actually is, without scrubbing away the awkward and the morally dubious for the sake of a cleaner character to play with. I genuinely believe most of the cult surrounding Spamton understands this, most of what I've seen from his most avid fans still paint him as his greedy conniving canon self, it's just that there's a loud minority (and the filthy casuals who don't read any deeper into him and just flatten every character they talk about) who deliberately try to convince you that Spamton is OBJECTIVELY a good person, or OBJECTIVELY someone you have to like, otherwise you're weird and, like, hate mentally ill people or something. I've gotten a Lot of weird comments on that video you guys wouldn't even believe.

All in all I consider that Spadesgore must be canonized.

[projectmoonlightproductions]

I saw ur post/ask about epic-legend privilege and common-rare hate and let me tell you the pain is REAL. ESPECIALLY with the ancients specifically getting away with so much bullshit over the years. Some of the kingdom fandom is super dope and some of it is more toxic than Chernobyl

my specific gripe with *that* part of the community around kingdom is just… how much of the nuance of the stories are erased and ignored when you give someone who failed English class an iPad. I don’t like being one of those “I’m smarter than you and ur headcanons are stupid” ppl (from first hand experience they are horrible to deal with good god I’m never logging in to fandom.com again), but the lack of media literacy has produced some dog water takes about the stories of the legends + ancients especially. And I’m emphasizing legends too, cuz OvenBreak community is much less guilty of this in my experience but we gave Sea Fairy’s flaws a pass for YEARS and I’ve only ever seen it called into question when I got back into cookie run late 2023. And the post was from April this year we were tripping for a long time 💀

but yeah anyways! The god cookies have pulled some dodgy shit since launch and I’ve rarely seen it explored within fan works or as part of a character analysis.

Take what you were saying about Pure Vanilla and his involvement of Gingerbrave in the BeastYeast plot line for example. How fucked up is that? Pure vanilla is 1. A grown ass man, 2. Fully recovered from the injuries from whatever story mode shit he was in at this point, and 3. A LITERAL GOD? And guess who he brings to solve his problems. 3 RANDOM ASS KIDS

dude wizard and strawberry didn’t 100% have to go (but let’s be real they’ve been so conditioned to do this quest crap that they’d probably choose to go anyway) but brave? They’re a HEAVILY disordered kid who has endured such fundamental developmental trauma (Almost no one talks about the oven and witch when relating to brave btw and it’s insane but that’s for another day) that it’s morphed into him basing their whole identity on 1. Being brave, and 2. Helping people. Even if pure vanilla didn’t sense anything off with the kid’s debilitating dependency on being brave and Not Being Alone and eagerness to fight and kill and die for people she’s known for barely a minute, you’d think the *adult* man could at LEAST say “hm. This is a dangerous god mission. I shouldn’t bring these kids with me.” There is much more I can say but I think u get the general jist.

PV is not a saint. Him, along with every other ancient, is a cookie with both immense power and important flaws who makes mistakes. While everyone has flaws and everyone makes mistakes, these guys have had more time to grow and power over their lives than almost all other characters in this setting ever will, and the sheer weight of some of these, dare I say, juvenile mistakes have had devastating consequences on families, friends, kingdoms, and even the cookie species as a whole. With great power comes great responsibility, but the ancients have been living life as if no one paid the electric bill, when in reality, they’re running the city’s generators.

YES THANK YOU

Especially the part with Sea Fairy because her obsession with Moonlight literally keeps putting the world at risk

Also if an epic cookie has too simple of a design or a basic story they’re forgotten immediately. Like Lime, Sandwich, Macaron, or Salt.

[theinfinitedivides]

this is so random but i would love to hear your opinion on mydramalist as a fellow asian drama lover. because it’s obviously well known as a reliable wiki of sorts in dramaland but i beg to differ. (the only plus i feel being the summary and cast list for info)

i mean, i’ve not seen a single comsec w more than two brain cells as a whole? there’s always complaints about female leads rooted from misogyny, they are never happy about story progression, and i just find so many of them kinda dumb sorry lol. like zero media literacy to be found, insufferable arguments, etc. the star ratings are rly just given to popular dramas w high profile actors too.

and i personally find it disheartening that so many ppl end up referring to mdl when considering dramas because so many gems are then lost and not given appreciation.

anon. anon anon anon if you know the way i sat straight the f*ck up when i saw the notification and then read through this ask bc yes. yes to everything here that is exactly it. almost three fourths of what i've watched this year was either 1. not received well by the general MDL crowd (Moon in the Day. where is the taste brethren to not like MITD and not even for reasons that actually make sense), 2. received well but had a good chunk of people bitching in the comment section, or 3. received well but had the main point of the show (and its relevant characterization) go over their heads. (The Worst of Evil aka TWOE comment section, i am f*cking looking at you. i can count on one hand the number of people who understood what that show was supposed to be about) the one fourth that managed to escape was bc the toxicity did not reach the comment section and everyone was pretty f*cking civil. alas if only it could be like that all of the time

case in point for the ratings example, since we've already briefly tackled the lack of media literacy—j-dramas on MDL are notoriously rated much, much lower than either k- or c-dramas. half of the time that's bc there are less users watching (and rating) them therefore the average is lower but the other half it's bc people simply do not understand good media when they see it. don't get me wrong there's some freaky ass sh*t in the j-drama world that i would not touch with a Grinch level pole but to see MDLers out here talking about how slow j-dramas are and that nothing's happening. have you considered that you are either watching the wrong genre or you shouldn't be watching j-dramas in the first place bc their entire setup and general narrative framing arcs are not your style. have you even thought about that for six seconds or are you too busy expecting it to read like a typical tropey rom-com k-drama with your trending oppas. (no hate on my tropey rom-coms with [most of] said oppas, i need them when i don't want to think i just want to see sh*t on my screen and scream about hot people and the Hand Umbrellas in the Rain and the Back Hold when the male lead catches the female lead before she falls and you have the fifteen second focus on their faces just looking at each other)

and the misogyny. oh God do not get me started on the dichotomy that was the Cult, as we affectionatly called ourselves, on the feeds while THEE sageuk of the year My Dearest was airing (beloved show [that i still need to finish. JangChae i'm sorry ily life hates me like the mf it is 😭], beloved commentary on the feeds. they saw the vision on the feeds) vs the sh*tshow that was the landmine field of the comment section (the takes i saw on Gil Chae, Eun Ae AND Ryang Eum respectively.......... the misogyny wasn't enough we had to add the homophobia into the mix. buy one get one free deal fr fr). you mad man. that sh*t was insane there was a point i banned myself from scrolling farther than the cast section until the show finished airing. i kid you not on average they didn't have even half a braincell. maybe a quarter of a quarter of one. f*cked up just say you are not decent people and go

this is not to say that all of MDL is like this. i have gotten tuned into absolute masterpieces of content (and have tuned others, amen) bc of a comment comparing a show i'm watching to another one or a review being posted in the feeds about a film with less than 500 people interested. i have reconsidered my choice to not watch something after having spirited discussions in private messages discussing the pros and cons of the premise and whether they managed to get it done without f*cking sh*t up. i still contribute semi-regularly by adding relatively unknown actors and crew members to the database so they can get the credit due them. if you know where to look, you can get some good sh*t out of that place. problem is most users who are new to both the site and East/Southeast Asian cinema as a whole don't know where to look, and the cycle continues, and the ratings continue to be skewed/bloated and no one pays attention to the plot, if there even is any to pay attention to.

tl;dr: begging people to not let MDL be the be all end all for their drama recs a la 'well MDL doesn't like it so i won't watch it'. babe we have said MDLers complaining about how the ratings on Viki are too high but in my entire time watching dramas i've found that in the past two to three years the Viki ratings are making more sense than the MDL ones. sit with that for a sec. when you're done branch out and see the world (literally and cinematically), i promise you will be a better person for it

[destinyc1020]

Hey Destiny, I don't know if you are still going to do confessional Sundays, but I have one, but I know ppl aren't going to like it.

1. I feel some tomdayas do too much with timdayas. I'm aware this is very unpopular, but let me explain. I'm not a timdaya, but I was a Timothee stan before I was a Tomdaya stan, so my perspective may be different. I feel Tomdayas need to accept that tindayas are going to exist and to stop giving them so much attention. This is not the first time both Tim and Z in their careers, are going to play with love interests that don't reflect their personal life(Timothee with Taylor in Bones and all whilst dating Kylie and Zendaya with Hunter and Mike and Josh while being with Tom).

Back in the day, actors had so much variety in their roles that had Z or Timothee been this age in the 90s, they would have been in 100 romcoms by now and ppl would be shipping them with their costars. It's not a reflection in real life. The insecurity projected unto Z is so weird because this same insecurity is never placed on Tom, and he had a makeout scene in TCR. No one thought he was dating his costar. It's obvious some Tomdayas are insecure, and tbh it's silly cause if you truly are a fan of both of them, you would know that the insecurity comes from film twitter and is not reflection in real life. Tom and Z love each other so much and have priotised so much being together. Only idiots think Timothee is a threat, lol. I also blame the lack of media literacy in this current generation. They see opinionated posts online and assume they are true, like aunties and uncles on Facebook, lol.

Timothee, respectfully, is a good actor but uses pr to benefit his films just like most actors. I saw some Tomdayas annoyed that he gifted Z wonka special edition shoes, assuming that he is trying to get with Z and is jealous of Tom. Are we bffr rn???? They are friends, nothing more, lol.

It seems you guys were not here last year for Bones and all promotion in Venice when Timothee and Taylor were PRing like their lives depended on it. Red carpet moments, TNT posts, and overall flirtatious interviews. At the time, I really thought they had something going on because i was gullibe and was happy. timothee was giving a black woman attention, lol. It was a self-fulfilling prophercy until, after the promotion of the film, when I saw them not liking each others posts, Taylor only praised Luca or did not hang out even when they were in the same city. It was then I realised it was just a job for them, lol. Its the same with Glen and Sydney doing the most to sell a film because its their job, lol.

I've been a fan of Timothee the longest, and most of his dating history happens offcamera than on until he started dating Kylie. I'm aware he dated Eiza and Lily, but when they dated, he barely spoke about them ever. Even when Lily and him had the King, they didn't stand next to each other on the red carpet, lol. Whether you like the pairing or not, this is who he wants to be with, and it's not Z, lol. Tom isn't insecure about Timothee at all. Timothee called him the rizz master for a reason. If anything, it's the other way round lol but that's for another discussion.

Paul and Chani's romance is going to be like the star was for our generation. Certain fans need to let go of this hypothetical insecurity that what's on screen is gonna be translated in real life. There's a reason why they didn't touch each other during the red carpet because both sides do too much.

There's also a consequence playing up to the romance of your titular characters in real life, Corey and India were close in the beginning of the pr of Queen Charlotte and towards the end in Brazil they bareley acknowledged because fans did too much and so did they lol.

The only way actors can do "showmances" is very early in theory careers as they don't have an established fanbase. In the new hunger games films, Tom blyth and Rachel Zegler have great chemistry, but they both have partners in real life, and so there's a line they don't cross and are still very popular. There are fans who want them together, but that's a loud minority.

Timothee and Z are well established in their careers, and it wouldn't make sense to do that.

Hopefully, I made sense, and you have a nice day!!

😳😳

Wow... this was a LOT Anon lol....

I'll try to answer your confession as succinctly as I can lol 😆

Hey Destiny, I don't know if you are still going to do confessional Sundays, but I have one, but I know ppl aren't going to like it.

Actually, yes! 75% of you said that you wanted to keep doing Confession Corner Sundays, so my inbox is open on Sundays for that.

You have to make sure you mention in your ask that it's a confession, and I'll know to treat it as such. 😊

Anyway, in answer to your ask.... I really don't think it's so much that Tomdaya fans are threatened by Timmy (let's get real), as it's more that we're sick and tired of some people seriously shipping them the ACTORS with each other when they are both in relationships with other people.

Also, when you blog, you do tend to see more nonsense coming into your inbox from trolls, so it might get more annoying 😑 than it would possibly for others who are just casually looking at things on the internet.

But yea, we all know that Tom and Z are basically married to each other by this point rofl, so it's not that we're "afraid" smthg would happen btwn her and Timmy lol. 😅 We just think it's very disrespectful for fans to be shipping her with her costar or trying to read into things that aren't even there. 🙄

Tbh, most of us just roll our eyes at Timdaya shippers and keep it moving. Most of us aren't giving them any real care like that.... at least, not on my blog.

We recognize the weirdness and laugh at it honestly. Trust me, MOST Tomdaya shippers aren't worried lol 😆 😂 Maybe the Tomdaya newbies are who you're referring to? But us old heads are like, been there, done that lol.

Back in the day, actors had so much variety in their roles that had Z or Timothee been this age in the 90s, they would have been in 100 romcoms by now and ppl would be shipping them with their costars. It's not a reflection in real life.

Actually, I challenge you on this. Would celebrities of the 90s be "shipped" with their costars? I don't really think so. 🤔 I don't think people shipped actors with each other like that. That seems to be smthg that grew out of more modern times. I kind of feel like back then, people were happy to see their favorite actors in a role together, but nobody really blurred the lines and tried to read more into a costar than necessary unless there were actual rumors of an off-camera romance btwn the two.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I just don't think that shipping was a thing back in the 90s. Most people probably knew the boundaries, especially if that actor was already in a serious dating relationship with someone else.

Most people didn't even know much about celebrities outside of what they saw in interviews, and there wasn't social media, so what on earth was there to ship exactly? 😅🤷🏾‍♀️

The insecurity projected unto Z is so weird because this same insecurity is never placed on Tom, and he had a makeout scene in TCR. No one thought he was dating his costar.

I blame the fans honestly. Z is also a woman, so she probably gets treated differently than her male counterparts.

SOME antis have tried it in the past when they tried to insinuate that smthg was going on with Tom and Sofia Ali, Tom and Emma, Tom and Ciara Bravo, etc. It's very small, but it has happened before. The reaction is the same.... we don't like it. 🤷🏾‍♀️ It's disrespectful.

It's one thing to say that two actors would look "cute" together, vs. "Smthg happened btwn them on set during filming...", or, "Did you see the way he looked at her? There's for sure smthg going on there, and they're just itching to break up with their significant others to finally be together like they've always wanted..." 🙄

Anyway.... I DO agree that fans shouldn't put too much stock into what weirdos say online. Weirdo Shippers are going to exist regardless... that just comes with the territory unfortunately 😕.

[sarasa-cat]

I am reading (technically listening) to:

You Are Here: A Field Guide for Navigating Polarized Speech, Conspiracy Theories, and Our Polluted Media Landscape by Whitney Phillips and Ryan M. Milner. MIT Press, 2021.

Only in chapter 2. But hoooooboy do I want to hold a reading group that reads this book and discusses it.

Chapter 2 includes a big bit on how millennials who were internet researchers in PhD programs (such as these two authors) during the early 2010s actually PERPETUATED the problems of online racism, sexism, protecting the privacy of minors and other vulnerable classes of people.

Including the outrage that some of these young researchers felt when they were told HOW FUCKED UP THEIR RESEARCH WAS (often by peer-reviews my age, which definitely did in fact include me for those attempting to publish in ACM venues) .

I eventually left academia and the tech world because of so many things in this book --- the tide of move fast and break things --- the overwhelming onslaught of smug young idiots with freshly minted Harvard (etc) degrees who had bizarre notions of what "free speech" actually means even in a US legal context. There was far too much of a revolving door between research academia and Facebook, Google, Twitter, Etc.

Well. This chapter attempts to apologize for the idiocy that swept through that group of people.

...

But before that, lots of discussion about other idiots far older than them (and many far older than me too). So, they have words for everyone.

My problem is that I'm just extra salty at a specific group for reasons personal. Sorry. But I am salty and I will remain salty and so will every single damn person (generally in my age group) who warned and warned and warned and warned about how the information ecosystem was being taken over by bigots and by political-ideological agents with dangerous goals.

Anyhow. (Still salty. Salty since 2008. Actually, no. Salty since 1998.)

I think I need to get my hands on a text version of this book because audiobook while cleaning is sort of brain tuning in and out.

The whole section on the rise of Christian media (in the 70s-90s) and how that walked hand in hand with the so-called Satanic Panic (!!!) of the 1980s was really very well spelled out.

If anyone wants to read this book with me, please let me know.

Here is a preview: https://www.google.com/books/edition/You_Are_Here/-ScZEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover

The chapters are:

Introduction: Mapping Network Pollution

The Devil's in the Deep Frames

The Root of All Memes

Tilling Bigoted Lands, Sowing Bigoted Seeds

The Gathering Storm

Cultivating Ecological Literacy

Choose Your Own Ethics Adventure

(The intro does something clever -- it looks at information networks as ecological networks)

(Ch 1 was basically Lakoff & Johnson's linguistic frame theory crossed with the rise of Evangelical media networks that sucked in conspiracy theories in order to push back against fears of modern secular society which was rapidly changing in the 70s and 80s).

(I'm currently in Ch 2 which is about meme culture -- and also WHY these two people - millennials of a certain vintage - had trouble seeing the forest for the trees because they grew up immersed in internet culture and didn't realize (lacked the wisdom and perspective) to see what was wrong with even the things they were doing as researchers)

okay. back to cleaning --- ping me if you are fascinated. I'm gonna keep listening but I also need to find a print or ebook copy bc audiobook isn't the best for close reading.

[wolvebonez]

If you want too: I’m curious to what you’ve observed in the WoF fandom, since I was in it a while ago and it wasn’t too bad for me personally. Though before I got into it I was in comparatively worse fandoms

I got my friend @dwaynedadwagon to write a bit abt it cuz I was never in the WoF fandom for long & it knows much more abt it than me so:

the wings of fire fandom consists of mostly children who got unrestricted internet access at too young of an age. because of this, and other societal factors for the younger generations, the wings of fire community tends to be very mentally unstable. just about every other member voices their personal mental struggles publicly, which leads to more people adding to the pile of public trauma-dumping.

another thing that is caused by unrestricted internet access is their inability to know what is right and what is wrong. there’s a popular member who happens to be a minor that ships their sona with foeslayer, people call this pedophilic, saying it’s like “shipping an adult with a minor”, which is not true. this is like a middle schooler shipping themself with harry styles and writing fanfictions about it. this is not unacceptable nor inappropriate, yet they still end up on a lot of dni lists for this reason, when they seem to be a reasonable person.

what’s concerning about this fandom is the amount of children making content and spitting out incoherent and misleading takes and opinions, which other children repeat and spread further within the community. there is a lack of media literacy, and because of this, people misinterpret the themes of wings of fire. one of them is that, “no matter who you are, you can always change,” and, “you cannot generalize whole groups of people for their appearance and background.” the second one is shown by the repeating examples of dragons within all tribes not fitting the stereotypes the main characters are fighting against (other than the rainwings, but there are a few who are unlike this!). generally, the community never recognizes this theme, and they continue to place each tribe into their own categories for their attributes.

“skywings are blunt and vicious, seawings are cowardly and reclusive, nightwings are secretive and all-mighty, mudwings are gluttonous and idiotic.”

these are all stereotypes, yet the community takes it as fact. they completely disregard what tui originally added in as themes for the books.

though, to be fair, she, too, forgets this theme in the later books. but it’s not an excuse for the community to also ignore these important ideas.

wings of fire is about inclusivity, iradicating misrepresentation, taking the past into account for the future, and so much more. however, the community lacks all forms of media literacy due to being so young, that they only take in the ideas that stood out the most — and those ideas happen to be the ones the protagonists fight against.

Personally, my own specific issues with my brief interactions in the fandom includes people acting as if my concerns about the fact the tribes were called, well, tribes, was completely absolute. Granted, I haven’t seen any outright appropriation or racisim in the earlier books (I haven’t read them in years though), other than the weird choice to call them tribes and not kingdoms or something else. But it always rubbed me the wrong way how quickly ppl get defensive over it getting pointed out haha.

That and I see a lot of discussion from white people talking abt the leaf/hivewing thing which rubs me the wrong way, but, I can’t accurately interact with it because I haven’t read that arc in full. Nor do I really intend to. Like Dwayne said, the fandom is mostly children with bad takes, at least from what I’ve seen, so I try to avoid it and its source material where I can, because god forbid I like another piece of media with a gross fandom. GOW and warriors is enough LMFAO

[feral-cockroach]

okay i saw sth on pinterest ab Lolita (the book) and it rly annoyd me so i msgd my husband about it and he had the same lack of understanding of the book and it drove me nutty so imnputtng it here aswell. copied from my messages to my husband bc i convey my thoughts better in a conversational text manner. asterisks for emphasis as opposed to italics. open to good-faith conversations if i have gotten anything wrong or if someone disagrees, i am very open to having my perspectives challenged *in good faith, and by people who have read the book or engaged with the media in some direct way*. i know the book itself can be a LOT to engage with so if you have read it, listened to it, or watched videos on it i am open to good faith discussions. if your only engagement has been one of the movies please do not engage, as the movies have taken and deeply bastardized the message of the book, as have the redesigned covers.

biases i feel necessary to mention: i am a CSA survivor. i have been abused by a paedophile. i have survived CSA. i am autistic which may affect my understanding and my own ability to engage with literacy.

it is the book written by *someone condemning paedophilia* from the *perspective of an unreliable narrator* and the *narrator* NOT the *author* is a paedophile and it was *written* to show how *easy it is* for people to be *manipulated* by paedophiles and the like and how *easy is is* to fall into the ideas of victim-blaming and how *the patriarchy* will *intentionally portray women and ESPEICALLY young girls* as *evil, seductive, creatures* and *men* as *helpless victims to young girls and women* and its *never* the *mans fault* its the *fault of the young girl*

*the author wrote it to actively condemn paedophilia and to CALL OUT paedophilia and the patriarchy and how EASY it is for people to fall into the victim-blaming mindset*

because when you take out the context of "this is why it was written, it was intentionally written so that you DO NOT trust the narrator, this is a satirization of paedophile and rape culture" , you're left with "satire is inherently an endorsement of whatever awful thing it is satirizing and sociopolitical commentary means nothing"

and then you end up in a culture of black and white thinking

which is not to say that people (namely men) havent taken the book and removed all of that context and then turned the main character into a *hero* or someone to *look up to*, but that is why keeping that context is so important . removing that context in either direction, either to condemn the author or to idolise the paedophile, leads to the general public having a completely warped understanding of a story they have not read, which leads to uninformed opinons and leads then to an even bigger lack of media literacy, which leads to an uneducated public and an uneducated public that cannot critically engage with media deemed "problematic" and cannot engage in "problematic" media within the context it was produced is a public that is easy to manipulate, easy to control, and easier still to weaponise against each other/public enemies

i dont even fucking like the book. i ve read it and its not my favourite. i dont like it it makes me deeply, deeply uncomfortable. but the whole point of it *is* to make the audience deeply uncomfortable. its supposed to make you uncomfortable because its fucking weird and its creepy and youre supposed to examine that discomfort and figure out what about it is making you uncomfortable, and then take that into your real life to engage critically with things that you previously were comfortable with , so that you can determine if these things are actually things that belong in modern society, or *are you being manipulated again, like you were by the main character of the book*

media literacy and the ability to critically engage with media is so so so so so important and people today (and i do literally mean people today - people in our generations and younger) simply refuse to, which is a different symptom of the same problem. anti intellectialism is a massive , growing and genuine problem. and the inability to engage critically and the lack of media literacy is the same thing we see when your grandma gets messages from scammers and then falls for it and wires her entire retirement fund to some guy in korea because he definitely wants to come over to the usa and marry her. she doesnt engage critically with what is presented, and she doesnt have the necessary technological literacy to understand taht people will just fucking lie and scam you online. its that, but now it is in younger generations, and it is a result of political propaganda, and again , symptom of a much bigger problem, but one that pisses me off and concerns me alot