#c: edmure tully

[ladystoneboobs]

such a shame that edmure hasn't yet gotten to meet the only member of his family truly proud of his great victory of the stone mill. so proud she even believed he could destroy tywin on an open battlefield too! ofc if she knew robb/catelyn/brynden blackfish's opinion on all that, she'd no doubt be influenced by her mother's and big brother's thoughts of the uncle she hadn't met before, but it's not like either is in any position to tell her now. maybe that's the one silver lining of the rw, if/when edmure and arya there's nothing to stop her congratulating him on his defeat of tywin lannister.

[daenystheedreamer]

"Grand northern conspiracy" what part of the last 5 books makes you think ANY of these people have the ability to collaborate with each other independently be so real rn. ned had been IMPRISONED and the manderlys and umbers were fighting over hunting lands they are NOT planning anything together they just all hate roose that much

exactly plus what have we learned about people. They Do Not Shut The Fuck Up EVER. r+l=j only stayed secret because it was JUST ned and howland and they never said anything ever ned lied to his wife for fifteen years. there is no way, in such a tense climate, every lord and lady in the north could a) keep their mouth shut b) coordinate despite conflicting loyalties c) not have any of their hundreds of men blab even accidentally. also ravens is not texting its not immediate and you can just shoot that raven dead. the grand northern conspiracy is several seperate minor quests that slightly overlap.

my thoughts on the gnc (based on the ASX video, i hate the forums) below the cut

WINTERFELL

the snowmen lords (barbrey, wyman, harwood stout, whoresbane umber) have their rickon conspiracy. this is the davos one, most obvious, confirmed etc. i believe what has been explained and hinted is straightforward.

ROBB'S WILL: MAEGE AND GALBART

maege and galbart are ambiguously with howland in the neck with robb's will that says jon is heir. there's evidence they made it and maege is "with lyra and [jorelle]" but probably not at bear island, because lyanna is the only one there. there have since no mentions of galbart's whereabouts

howland of course is the last living person with knowledge of r+l=j

robb's will was made under the belief that bran and rickon were dead and that sansa and arya were ???, leaving that document in limbo. also jon is dead

my belief is maege and galbart had their meeting with howland and are in some kind of hiding rn. i don't think howland told them about r+l=j because it's honestly sooo unrelated to the northern political situation. all it does is make things way more chaotic and puts jon in a really precarious position.

ROBB'S WILL: LADY STONEHEART

LSH has robb's crown and since cat was at the signing of the will it's possible she could crown jon. people link her to maege and galbart but lsh is clearly doing her own thing right now and does not gaf about her bastard stepson

the lannister/freys lost the brotherhood somewhere in the neck so its possible LSH is up there slaying it up with howland.

i think the LSH/howland collusion is a little iffy. LSH is not in her right mind because her brain is rotting in her cracked skull. i just dont see her scheming a huge political conspiracy rn.

personally im of the opinion LSH is on a course towards arya and/or sansa, not jon. or at least her nexus is at her daughters. she is on a revenge quest, not avenge quest. she wants to kill RW participants, not complete robb's will.

plus imo if LSH and the brotherhood are scheming anything, its a red wedding 2.0 massacre

RIVERRUN

tom of sevenstreams is spying on the lannister riverrun camp on behalf of the BWB and is clearly colluding with edmure.

edmure frees brynden

brynden is a robb loyalist and is now running around possibly knowing whatever edmure knows from tom

two riverrun tully guards choose to join the night's watch. where JON is!!!

also jeyne westerling is confirmed to feature in the TWOW prologue

this stuff is wayyy more circumstantial. the line of thought is that the BWB knows about robb's will -> tom knows -> tom tells edmure -> edmure tells brynden -> brynden becomes jon snow #1 fan or whatever. + those tully men are sent judge jon/inform him/whatever

again this is all under the assumption that this is LSH's plan, which i doubt. i think this part of the conspiracy is the least credible and i think a lot of these 'clues' or whatever are probably about a possible red wedding 2.0 (or attack on the lannister camp) as opposed to Everything Is About Jon. those tully men are sus though...

---

jesus okay i got bored here once i got to the part about stannis army politics. i only have enough space in my head to care about one conspiracy per contingent and i picked night lamp for stannis' army. i think there are conflicting loyalties and the fArya situation + bran rickon thing will complicate it further but jesus christ theyre on a military campaign. they do not have time to hook up with fuckn wyman manderly. everyone is freezing and starving okay.

flint and norrey have some shit going on. plus the fuckin liddle that met bran. god. what ever. basically its several minor conspiracies that happen to overlap and some are probably unrelated. but anyway everyone go watch and draw your own conclusions<3

i think the bolton-held winterfell is a powder keg waiting to explode is the Point or whatever. everyone runnning around with conflicting loyalties lying hating each other loving their family etc etc human heart in conflict with itself. way more fun and thematically appropriate. plus its so unneccessary... its like how people try and make littlefinger have bigger and crazier plans. his plans are already big and crazy you dont need to throat him so hard. now i think wyman does deserve a good throating but he's already an awesome schemer do we need to include lady stoneheart. let her murder more people on her own for her own reasons. god forbid women do anything

[rikakore]

Hoster Tully (C. 270 AC)

one of the top contenders for the "Worst Dads of Westeros" (and there are sooo many participants).

Whenever I picture Tully men, they are ALWAYS wearing kilts. with all those hills and rivers, raising sheep and exporting their wool make so much sense for the Riverlands! Richly dyed fine wool was worth its weight in gold, and what better way to show how wealthy you were than to use yards of it? Hoster here is wearing the upper portion over his shoulder in the "Toga Method" (ref)

His brother was originally a redhead, so I gave his hair a ginger tint as well. It would have been nice to know who his mother was, but GRRM has something against giving women names :') Also, Minisa is half a foot taller than him (and Catelyn/Edmure grow to be much taller as well)

Rickard-Lyarra Brandon Ned Lyanna Benjen Jon Arya

Minisa Hoster Catelyn Edmure Lysa Robb Sansa Bran Rickon Robin

Transparent Version (because landscapes aren't my strong suit)

[rodri11421]

I finished A Clash of Kings yesterday. It was a great book, better than the first one in my opinion.

S tier - Prologue

An incredible introduction to the story and to team Dragonstone.

A tier - Bran, Sansa, Catelyn and Theon

I really liked Sansa's chapters last book, so it wasn't surprising that I found myself enjoying her storyline for this one. However, what WAS surprising was the outstanding improvements I saw in Catelyn and Bran's POVs.

Catelyn's grief, her views on the war, on how her teenage son is being swallowed by the king in the North, a ruler who will not ransom back the kingslayer for his sisters... It was just incredible. The addition of more characters from house Tully was a vital choice to flesh out Catelyn even more, with Edmure and especially Hoster enriching her tremendously.

Bran simply had a more involved storyline, lol. His whole internal conflict of needing to appear strong and competent while being looked down upon for being disabled was really interesting. I also found his refusal to accept magic (going as far as to lock Summer and Shaggy within the Godswood. A complete and utter refusal) to be a great choice to make his eventual mastery of his powers more satisfying. His supporting cast was also very good

Theon was not a nice person to read about, but he was definitely a fascinating character. It is within his contradictions that he truly shines: his love for Winterfell's people even as he invades their land (or rather, how he invades their land BECAUSE of his love for them); his relationship with his family (the Greyjoys in general, really. Very intriguing of GRRM to make the crazier factions the one who bemoan the loss of their harmful old ways and talk how they need to make everything great again... I wonder if he's trying to make some type of commentary here 🤔)... Now, his whole plan to lay siege on Winterfell was more than a little farfetched and the whole... thing with Asha in his second chapter wasn't necessary, I think, but Theon was a great POV overall.

B tier - Davos, Arya, Jon and Tyrion

These chapters were good, just not great like the ones above. Davos would be the worst of them if not for the part where he had an incredible conversation with Stannis and sails for Storm's End with Melissandre. That was incredible.

(Also, I'm not sure I get why Arya didn't just tell the northmen who she was after taking back Harrenhall. If someone could explain to me, I would really appreciate it).

C tier - Daenerys / SSS+ tier - Daenerys

Now, I felt that Daenerys was really boring overall. Her chapters were few and far in-between I wasn't feeling like her narrative was moving forward very much. The fact that she's so disconnected from the rest of the cast definitely doesn't help.

Then, there was the House of the Undying chapter.

Is this going to be a pattern through the series? Is Daenerys going to have okay chapter after okay chapter only for one of her last chapters in the book to just... Blow me away completely?

I really loved how magical that chapter was, how much foreshadowing there is, how many elements can be found that I cannot wait to sink my teeth into.

Now, if only I found the rest of her storyline more entertaining... Oh well, if Bran and Catelyn improved so much in one book, Dany can most definitely do the same!

[racefortheironthrone]

When I was talking about the Freys/Riverrun Siege I was talking about the first Siege in AGOT

Ah, ok. Just needed to triangulate in on the right battle.

The answer is that it's a little hard to say whether the Freys help would have been determinative, because GRRM doesn't really give us enough information about what happened. Here's what we know from AGOT:

Jaime is leading a force of 15,000 men from the Golden Tooth to Riverrun after defeating the small army led by Lord Vance and Lord Piper.

At Riverrun, Edmure has summoned many of the Riverlords (not all of them, b/c the Freys aren't there, the Vances and Pipers just got their shit rocked, and there are "small troops of men along his borders" who just completely evaporate, as Riverlander armies tend to do this early in ASOIAF). However, Edmure should have roughly the same number of men as Jaime for reasons that I'll get into in a sec.

Jaime meets the Tully army in battle "under the walls of Riverrun." It doesn't seem to have been an ambush or night attack or anything like that, because the battle is described as involving "the massed power of the Tullys" which suggests a pretty straightforward set-piece battle. (This is also in keeping with Jaime's tendency to charge straight ahead that Robb exploits at the Whispering Woods.)

Despite the even odds and having defensive support from Riverrun itself, the outcome is extremely lopsided, with "the Lords of the Trident put to rout" and "Ser Edmure Tully...taken captive, with many of his knights and bannermen" and only a small force under Lord Blackwood left holding the castle.

Given that Tywin says "the rest fled to their own strongholds" and how many men show up at the Battle of the Fords (plus the Freys), I think the actual casualties were pretty low - which together with the use of the word "rout" suggests that the Riverlands army panicked when they were charged. This is not uncommon (most bayonet charges in the 19th century, for example, never actually made contact with a solid formation of enemy soldiers. It was much more common for the assault to fall short or the defenders to run), especially for green troops.

So would the Freys have helped? Maybe, but it's hard to say and probably equally likely that they just would have joined in the rout.

[xwyllamanderlyx]

@riverrcns

It was to be expected that a meeting of so many royals and noblemen in one place would lead to banqueting and dancing and tedious conversation.  Somehow, Wylla had forcefully put this fact out of her mind when she’d been offered a place in her grandfather’s retinue, too excited by the prospect of seeing a continent’s many rulers in one place.  She had spent the weeks preparing for the trip and then the journey itself in contemplation of what wild and monumental things might occur.  Wars could be ended, new threats could arise, dynasties could rise and fall.  Equally attractive was the opportunity to champion the Northern cause, and insinuate herself at her grandfather’s side.  In her mind’s eye, this had been the journey of a lifetime, an honour beyond words, and a story she could have told for the rest of her life.

In reality, Wylla was sitting in a banquet hall with dozens and dozens of half-drunk nobles, and she had been paired with a stranger.

A deep sigh deflated her, and at last her patience reached its end.  “Right, then.”  She murmured, picking up the pitcher of wine and filling first her noble partner’s goblet and then her own to the brim.  There was a familiarity in her gestures as she did so, the closeness and ease of her movements and words that might have seemed inappropriate between two strangers.  “Lord Tully, I refuse to be bored, this night.  I have no interest in hearing the same stories from thirty years ago told again and again by drunken men, so if you would please take your glass?”  A quick, careful hand lifted her glass as she looked at him in expectation.  “We shall make our own amusements, my lord, or I shall quit the place and find them elsewhere, and my poor lady-mother will go into a paroxysm upon hearing of them.”  A mischievous light now burned in her eyes, and the ghost of a daring smile curved her lips.  “To your good health, my lord, and a far more interesting evening, beginning this very moment.”

[housetullysource]

Edmure and Roslin Tully aesthetic

[asongofsilks]

ASOIAF FANCASTING –> EVERY NAMED FEMALE CHARACTER ABOVE THE AGE OF FIVE, PART XXIII

Gella (main series era): Granddaughter of Lord Godric Borrell of Sweetsister, one of the three islands known as the Sisters. Fancast: Lia Pappas-Kemps.

Genna Lannister (b. 245 AC): Only daughter of Lord Tytos Lannister of Casterly Rock, and sister to Lord Tywin. At the age of seven, she was betrothed to her husband Emmon Frey, second son of Lord Walder Frey of the Twins, and went on to have four sons with him. Her son Tion is murdered by Rickard Karstark during the War of the Five Kings. After Lord Edmure Tully of Riverrun is attainted by King Tommen, Riverrun and its lands and incomes are granted to Emmon. My own headcanon: Obviously, this is a young Genna - simply can't find a good fancast for older Genna. Fancast: Juno Temple.

Gilliane Glover (b. approx. 90 AC): Wife of Rickon Stark, Lord of Winterfell, and mother to Lord Cregan Stark, famous for his involvement in the Dance of the Dragons. Fancast: Amelia Warner.

Gilly (b. 283 AC): Daughter and wife to Craster, who makes his keep beyond the Wall and lives alone with his many daughters and wives, sacrificing his sons to the Others for protection. To save the life of her son, Gilly pleads with Samwell Tarly and Jon Snow, brothers of the Night's Watch on Lord Commander Mormont's great ranging, to take her with them back across the Wall. After the mutiny of the Night's Watch against Lord Mormont, Sam flees back to the Wall with Gilly, facing the Others when they come to fetch the child. They are saved by a mysterious figure known as Coldhands, who takes them to a secret entrance through the Wall ending in the Nightfort, and they make it to Castle Black. While at Castle Black, Gilly becomes the wet nurse for the son of Mance Rayder, as his wife Dalla has died during the birth. The new Lord Commander Jon Snow, fearing for the safety of Mance Rayder's son, secretly sends him south to Oldtown with Sam and Master Aemon, forcing Gilly to leave her real child behind. She becomes Sam's lover during the long journey, and Sam intends to send her to his family at Horn Hill, claiming the child as his bastard with Gilly. Fancast: Hannah Murray.

Gretchel (main series era): A serving woman at the Eyrie. Fancast: Ruth Gordon.

Grisel (main series era): The head of Petyr Baelish's household at his ancestral holding on the Fingers, formerly his wet nurse. Fancast: Jessica Tandy.

Grisella (lived c. 280 AC): A skinchanger of the Free Folk who could inhabit the body of a goat. Fancast: Peta Rutter.

Gwenys Rivers (b. 174 AC): Bastard daughter to Aegon IV Targaryen and his sixth mistress, Lady Melissa Blackwood. She had an older sister. Her younger brother was Brynden Rivers, who would go on to become a greenseer and the Hand of King Aerys I. Fancast: Freya Mavor.

Gwin Goodbrother (b. approx. 280 AC): One of the twelve daughters of Lord Gorold Goodbrother of Hammerhorn in the Iron Islands. Fancast: Emma Fuhrmann.

Gwynesse Harlaw (b. approx. 240 AC): Elder sister of Lord Rodrik Harlaw of Ten Towers. Her husband died during the Ironborn Rebellion and she subsequently returned to Ten Towers, where she constantly reminds her brother that the castle should be hers since she is the elder. Fancast: Diana Scarwid.

Previous

[tegami-kagami]

Robb Stark Fanfic Idea

Time Travel AU with a twist

I've been wanting a "Robb Stark time travels to before King B comes to winterfell" fic but so far, though there is a famous fic of that premise, I have not found one that actually follows Robb. So I thought, why not just brainstorm my own.

Disclaimer though: I don have the time to write so this will just a plot construction essay.

Normal Time Travel fics has the main character waking up in the past (commonly for unexplained reasons to be revealed in later chapters or never at all) and use their future knowledge to change upcoming events. While that is interesting, its too predictable and not dramatic enough for me, especially since I've read a lot Time travel fics featuring Jon and having Robb be the MC instead would still open a very similar premise to those with Jon as the butterfly changes would still come from Winterfell.

So my idea would be Robb going back in time after his death in the Twins with all the memories he has of his first life. The twist is, it would not be as a Stark in Winterfell but as child from one of the other main Westeros houses

Here is how it will go;

It starts off with Robb Stark in his 1st life. He is the King in the North, the Young Wolf, War Prodigy and the eldest son of Eddard Stark and Catelyn Tully.

In this original timeline, Robb Stark meets his untimely end in the Twins where House Frey had colluded with House Lannister and House Bolton to massacre Robb and his household which would then mark the end of the "War of the 5 Kings". This act would eventually be called the 'Red Wedding' but Robb would not be alive to see it as he died in the feast hall with 4-5 of arrows on his body and a knife plunge into his chest by Roose Bolton himself.

Amongst the souls of his Ancestors, Robb would awake and meet a giant she-wolf who greets him and offers him a deal. She would offer him a 2nd chance at life. Another chance to go back in time and right the wrongs of his 1st life, to save the family he was unable to save.

Robb would ask what is the price he has to pay. He figured the she-wolf was an emissary of the old gods and Robb was taught that for every miracle from the Old gods, there is always a price to payed. The She-wolf replies, "You're house."

Confused, Robb asks the she-wolf to clarify.

The she-wolf says that Yes, Robb would be able to live again. Near the year be was born with all the memories of his first life intact but in this 2nd life, Robb would no longer be a Stark. Fate will choose another family for him and it is in that household that he will grow up again. The price is Robb's position in House Stark. If Robb chooses to accept this deal, Robb Stark, the First born and heir of Eddard Stark will not exist and will never have existed."

Robb was conflicted but he knew, deep down, that he could not pass up another chance to right the mistakes he made. As far as he knew, Bran, Arya and Rickon were dead, Jon was a sworn brother of the night watch, Sansa was married to a Lannister and with his death, so too did House Stark. With this 2nd chance, House Stark would live again, even if its without him. His brothers, sisters, mother and father would be whole and alive again in Winterfell. Though pained that he would no longer be apart of that family, Robb decides the sacrifice is worth it and accepts.

Thus with power of the Old Gods of Westeros, a new timeline in the asoiaf universe is created where Robb Stark never existed and House Stark gets another chance to play the game of thrones.

Ok. So that is the premise

Now the real excitement begins in choosing which household Robb can be reborn into.

(A) Baratheon - Robert & Cersei's unnamed firstborn

(B) Lannister - a bastard son of Jamie or Tyrion

(C) Arryn - Lysa and Jon's trueborn son

(D) Martell - little brother to Arianne

(E) Tyrell - twin/brother to Marguery

(Note: Edmure isn't old enough in 283 AC to have a child so Tully is disqualigied and Robb being Greyjoy would just lead him back to Winterfell so that house is also disqualified)

Any Robb fan out there that wanna brainstorm ideas with me for this premise?

[ladystoneboobs]

possibly incomplete list of asoiaf characters described as having red or even "ginger" hair (or red-gold as opposed to red-brown or ghiscari red-black), never auburn:

mycah, the butcher's boy*

beric dondarrion (red-gold hair)*

lharys, member of the three stooges men-at-arms (wild rust-colored hair)**

unnamed and unfortunate mother of robert baratheon's doomed youngest child, barra (light red-haired mother of black-haired baby)*

tomard aka "fat tom", stark guardsman (with his ginger whiskers)*

horas "horror" redwyne (orange hair)*

hobber "slobber" redwyne (orange hair)*

unnamed red-haired whore leaning out a window the day of ned's execution (presumably not the same as above since she was joking about the king's death)*

melisandre of asshai (deep burnished copper. red and terrible and red.)*

a man called jaqen h'ghar (red on one side, white on the other)*

pug-nosed dancy from chataya's brothel (described as red-haired by tyrion in acok but honey-blonde in asos, so presumably hair dye must have been involved between those book mentions.)**

addam marbrand (hair the same copper color as his horse's mane)*

"ginger-headed" maester frenken*

unnamed beardless ginger youth among theon's crew at winterfell*

ygritte, a spearwife "kissed-by-fire" (bright red)*

arryk aka "left" or "right", lady olenna's red-mustached guardsman*

erryk aka "left" or "right", lady olenna's other, identical, red-mustached guardsman*

lord paxter redwyne (tufts of orange hair)**

anguy the archer of the bwb*

a red-bearded karstark rapist dead in a crow cage at stoney sept*

tansy, innkeeper of the peach in stoney sept*

meryn trant (rust-red hair)*

"red" ronnet connington

mero, "the titan's bastard", former commander of the second sons (bushy red-gold beard)

a red-headed soldier who came with stannis to the wall

shadrich "the mad mouse" (bristly orange hair)*

lord rykker's red-mustached maester

marwyn belmore, lysa's former guard captain (ginger-headed)*

lord benedar belmore with a beard that was "a ginger-grey horror"*

lord orton merryweather (reddish-orange hair)

"the red oarsman", one of euron greyoy's followers (fiery red hair)

unnamed red-haired sailor arriving at port in braavos*

lord clement piper

and his son lewys "little lew" piper, who served as squire to jaime lannister in the riverlands

unnamed red-haired youth who first escaped northward with varamyr from the battle at the wall

one of illyrio's washerwomen (dull red hair)**

jon connington (once red hair gone to grey, still red at the roots and eyebrows even when the rest was dyed blue. also had a bright red beard as a younger man.)**

rolly "duck" duckfield (a shock of orange hair)**

a young man among the wildling refugees at mole's town whose red hair reminded jon of ygritte*

the "sunset kingdoms" girl raped by tyrion in the brothel where he was captured by jorah**

hagen's daughter, only other woman among asha greyjoy's crew

roggon rustbeard, one of asha's men

mully of the nw (greasy orange hair)*

bloodbeard, commander of the company of the cat (fiery red whiskers)

"ginger" jack, a toungeless sellsword of the windblown sent to dany, face nearly covered by his bristly, orange beard

gerrick kingsblood*

and his son*

and gerrick's daughter #1*

and gerrick's daughter #2*

and gerrick's daughter #3*

ronald storm, son of ronnet connington

one of the 7 "choicest" enslaved girls from the yunkish ship who were sacrificed by victarion (red-gold hair)

an enslaved redhead boy in line for a well, asking tyrion about dany**

nail, apprentice to hammer, the armorer for the second sons**

maester tybald, redhaired maester from the dreadfort serving arnolf karstark

valena toland, heiress to ghost hill (bright red hair)

teora toland, valena's younger sister with the same hair

uther shett, knight arriving for sweetrobin's tourney (ginger-haired and whiskered)*

*characters whose hair is described in the povs of starks (or jon snow) who only use the terms auburn or red-brown for catelyn, robb, sansa etc. and do not compare said characters to said tully-haired relations

**characters whose hair is described by tyrion lannister, who spent significant time with sansa and exclusively referred to her hair as auburn (without anyone else telling him her hair color as catelyn told brienne)

the only asoiaf characters ever described as having auburn hair:

catelyn tully stark

robb stark (red-brown/auburn tully hair "so like" his mother's, with a beard redder than his hair)

sansa stark (auburn hair lighter than her mother's, most reddish glowing in candlelight)

brandon "bran" stark (hair not bright red enough for him to distinguish himself from young benjen at first glance in a weirwood flashback)

rickon stark

brynden "the blackfish" tully (once auburn hair gone to grey)

edmure tully (auburn hair with a fiery beard, likely brighter than his hair like robb's)

lysa tully arryn baelish

known tully descendants never described as having auburn hair

arya stark (darker brown stark-colored hair)

hoster tully (hair and beard gone from brown to brown streaked with grey to white as snow)

robert "sweetrobin" arryn (fine brown hair, thought by sansa to be his best feature)

fun fact: the only other character that i can find to ever even be descibed as having red-brown hair in the main series is rowan, one of the spearwives who accompanied mance on his mission to winterfell. (described by theon, who had psychological reasons not to think of any hair-resemblance to robb and co.)

tl;dr i suppose my point here is that auburn hair in the real world may be a term thrown around wildly as a fancier way of saying red hair, but grrm and his westerosi creations seem to keep to a much more specific (true) definition. not just specific, almost entirely unique to a certain family, a weird mutation passing down their line somewhat inexplicably, like the magic platinum hair of the targaryens. (ned stark's 4 tully-haired kids being sorta like alicent hightower's 4 targ-haired kids where nobody can really explain why it was so dominant.) except it's actually more unique to the tullys than either black hair to the baratheons or silver hair to the targaryens, with the velaryons also having valyrian hair as well as some people in the essosi free cities too. which i guess makes rowan the wildling the equalivent of an unknown dragonseed or a lysene woman who could pass as a targ, and regular brown-haired hoster and sweetrobin the equivalent of regular blonde-haired alysanne and alyssa targaryen. so the next time someone calls the tullys lame or whatever, just remember that in-universe they're actually more special than the dragonriders, at least hairwise.

[dragonmartellstark]

The couple had five children in total (1/2)

Johann Lannister- Was Lord of Casterly Rock and Guardian of the West upon the death of his father, Jaime Lannister. He was considered a flirtatious, charismatic and astute young man, earning the sympathy of everyone who came to know him.

He married Ermesande Hayford, a Lady of Hayford with whom he had a good relationship and Ermesande bore him four children. At first his eldest son, Tion Lannister would inherit Casterly Rock and Hayford Lordship, but his mother preferred that his youngest son, Tayron Lannister was his heir by joining both surnames. Johann would hardly pay attention to his lessons and he would be a bit rebellious, but they said he had a good wit and everyone thought that he would be a good lord. In 340 a. C., his father died and he was appointed Guardian of the West, but unfortunately half a year later he began to suffer from serious stomach problems which began to intensify more until he died in 341 a. C., just one year after being named Lord of Casterly Rock and was succeeded by his son, Tion.

Ermesande Hayford- She was the Lady of Hayford and the last member of the Hayford House. She married Johann Lannister with whom she had four living children, in addition to being Mrs. Rock Casterly for a year when her husband passed away.

At first her eldest son, Tion would inherit the West and Hayford's lands, but Ermesande preferred that her other son, Tayron, be her successor, claiming that she could create a cadet house that would unite both surnames. In the end her son Tayron was his heir and formed House Haynnister in Hayford.

In 341 a. C. Just a year after becoming Mistress of Casterly Rock and becoming a widow, Ermesande remained Mistress of Hayford while her son, Tion Lannister, cared for the West. In 356 a. C., Ermesande abdicated his position due to his delicate health in favor of his son Tayron, who was the first Lord of Hayford of House Haynnister, but his other son Tion affirmed that he was the heir to his lands as he was the eldest of all looking for a war against his younger brother.

Ermesande wanted to appease those conflicts by stating that Tion had more power and that he had inherited one of the most powerful settlements in the Seven Kingdoms, but her son's ambition had no limits. The conflicts of her children were growing and her mother sought a peaceful solution for everyone, but these ideas were not realized because Ermesande died at the beginning of 370 a. C., at 72 years of age from a heart attack.

The couple had four children:

Tion Lannister known as "Tion the Barbarian" or "The Ambitious" was Lord of Casterly Rock for 35 years and was known for his numerous conflicts against his younger brother over the Lord of Hayford, the mother lands. of the. He married her niece, Jeyne Tully, the daughter of her sister Drusella hers, and with her he had thirteen children and eight alive.

Drusella Lannister was Mistress of Watersweet when she married Hoster II Tully, son of Edmure Tully, she being his second wife and gave him three children, including Jeyne and Heracles Tully.

Tayron Lannister was Lord of Hayford and the first member of House Haynnister, he was known for his fighting against his older brother, Tion for his lands. In the end these wars ceased with the death of Tion. He married Larissa Westerling, daughter of Rollam Westerling and with her he had four children.

Tyrak Lannister was a master in Antigua and a member of the council of his nephews who ruled at Casterly Rock.

Joanna Lannister- she was engaged to Tytos Blackwood's youngest son Robert Blackwood and they were married in 318 a. C., but only half a year later her husband died and without having had children.

At first Lord Tytos thought that he should return to Casterly Rock or become a septa, but his other son, Alyn Blackwood asked for the hand of his sister-in-law since he was also a widower of his wife, Lady Butterwell and with her he only had two daughters. In the end Lord Blackwood accepted this marriage and Jaime Lannister also, the brothers-in-law marrying in 321 a. C., she was 19 years old and he was approximately 30 years old. The marriage was passionate, although somewhat tumultuous, the couple argued heatedly and then reconciled and the two had two children.

Joanna also took care of her stepdaughters even though her favorite was always, Mirina Blackwood. She also took care of her children who were her most precious assets and looked for a good future for them. In 360 a. C., Joanna died unexpectedly of tuberculosis at 58 years of age, much is rumored if her death was due to tuberculosis or was poisoning due to the bad relations that Joanna had with some members of House Blackwood.

Alyn Blackwood- He was one of the youngest children of Tytos Blackwood and considered the craziest, having a few lovers during his youth. Casanova's life ended when he was forced to marry a woman from the Butterwell house and with this woman he had two daughters, but his wife would end up dying after giving birth to a male child who died at birth.

His brother Brynden had no male offspring and only had two daughters, thinking that if he had male children he could achieve the throne he decided to remarry. In 319 a. C., his younger brother died, Robert Blackwood, leaving her wife, Joanna Lannister, a widow and without children, so Alyn proposed to her father to marry her and thus have more offspring for the succession of the Blackwoods. Joanna's father, Jaime Lannister, welcomed this engagement and the couple married in 321 a. C. Alyn felt a great passion for her new wife whom he had always found very beautiful since he met her and soon they both shared the bed enjoying each other's company.

The marriage was beneficial to House Blackwood as soon Joanna gave birth to a son, Hoster and two years later Jaime was born, both of them would reach adulthood and have offspring.

Alyn passed away in 348 a. C., with 60 years victim of puerperal fever and Joanna survived 12 more years until she died of tuberculosis.

Alyn had two daughters, his first wife, a woman from the Butterwell house, who died giving birth to a stillborn baby:

Mirina Blackwood, was married to a man from House Bracken in a way to leave behind the many tensions that the Blackwood’s had had with this family. She passed away giving birth to a stillborn son.

Dorna Blackwood, was the third wife of Daryn Hornwood and with him she had four daughters.

Joanna and Alyn had two sons:

Hoster Blackwood, was Lord of the Tree of Crows by marrying his cousin, Alysane Blackwood who was the eldest daughter of his father, Brynden Blackwood. The couple had five children.

Jaime Blackwood, was a member of the City Guard in the Capital, but would end up leaving his position and married his niece, Myrcella Blackwood, daughter of his brother Hoster, and with her he had eight children.

Tygette Lannister- he is the most unknown son of Lord Jaime Lannister, but it is known that he married a cousin, Janei Lannister with whom he had no children due to the age of his wife.

Tygett was sent in 331 a. C., when Janei was infected with smallpox and died. At some point he had a bastard son, Tywin Colina.

Tygett passed away in 344 a. C., in a fall from a horse where he broke his neck and back when he was 41 years old.

Lord Lannister had a bastard son:

Tywin Hill was a squire to his cousin Tion Lannister and married another Dornish bastard named Obena Sand, but it is not known if they had children.

Janei Lannister- she was the wife of Tygett Lannister, but with him she could not have children and their relationship was almost non-existent making their lives each separately.

She passed away in 331 a. C., of smallpox at 34 years of age.

La pareja tuvo cinco hijos en total (1/2)

Johann Lannister- Fue Señor de Roca Casterly y Guardian del Occidente a la muerte de su padre, Jaime Lannister. Era considerado un joven coqueto, carismático y astuto ganándose la simpatía de todo aquel que lo llegaba a conocer.

Se caso con Ermesande Hayford, Señora de Hayford con la cual tuvo una buena relación y Ermesande le dio cuatro hijos. En un principio su hijo mayor, Tion Lannister heredaría Roca Casterly y el Señorio de Hayford, pero su madre prefería que su hijo menor, Tayron Lannister fuera su heredero uniendo ambos apellidos. Johann apenas prestaría atención a sus lecciones y seria algo rebelde, pero decían que tenia un buen ingenio y todos pensaban que sería un buen señor. En 340 d. C., falleció su padre y fue nombrado Guardian del Occidente, pero lamentablemente medio año después empezó a padecer de serios problemas estomacales los que se empezaron a intensificar mas hasta que falleció en 341 d. C., a tan solo un año de ser nombrado Señor de Roca Casterly y fue sucedido por su hijo, Tion.

Ermesande Hayford- Fue la Señora de Hayford y el ultimo miembro de la Casa Hayford. Se caso con Johann Lannister con el cual tuvo cuatro hijos vivos, además de ser Señora de Roca Casterly por un año cuando su marido falleció.

En un principio su hijo mayor, Tion heredaría el Occidente y las tierras de Hayford, pero Ermesande prefirió que su otro hijo, Tayron fuera su sucesor alegando que podría crear una casa cadete que uniría ambos apellidos. Al final su hijo Tayron fue su heredero y formo la Casa Haynnister en Hayford.

En 341 d. C., a solo un año de ser Señora de Roca Casterly y convertirse en viuda, Ermesande siguió siendo Señora de Hayford mientras que su hijo, Tion Lannister se ocupaba del Occidente. En 356 d. C., Ermesande abdico de su puesto por su delicada salud a favor de su hijo Tayron el cual fue el primer Señor de Hayford de la Casa Haynnister, pero su otro hijo Tion afirmo que el era el heredero de sus tierras al ser el mayor de todos buscando una guerra encentra de su hermano menor.

Ermesande quiso apaciguar aquellos conflictos afirmando que Tion tenia mas poder y que había heredado uno de los asentamientos mas poderosos de los Siete Reinos, pero la ambición de su hijo no tenia limites. Los conflictos de sus hijos iban a mas y su madre busco una solución pacifica para todos, pero estas ideas no se llegaron a realizar debido a que Ermesande falleció a principios del 370 d. C., a los 72 años de edad de un ataque al corazón.

La pareja tuvo cuatro hijos:

Tion Lannister conocido como “Tion el bárbaro” o “El ambicioso” fue Señor de Roca Casterly durante 35 años y fue conocido por sus numerosos conflictos en contra de su hermano menor por el Señorito de Hayford, las tierras de su madre. Se caso con su sobrina, Jeyne Tully, la hija de su hermana Drusella, y con ella tuvo trece hijos y ocho vivos.

Drusella Lannister fue Señora de Aguasdulces al casarse con Hoster II Tully, hijo de Edmure Tully, siendo la segunda esposa de este y le dio tres hijos, entre ellos Jeyne y Heracles Tully.

Tayron Lannister fue Señor de Hayford y el primer miembro de la Casa Haynnister, fue conocido por sus enfrentamientos contra su hermano mayor, Tion por sus tierras. Al final estas guerras cesaron con la muerte de Tion. Se caso con Larissa Westerling, hija de Rollam Westerling y con ella tuvo cuatro hijos.

Tyrak Lannister fue maestre en Antigua y miembro del consejo de sus sobrinos que gobernaron en Roca Casterly.

Joanna Lannister- Fue comprometida con el hijo menor de Tytos Blackwood, Robert Blackwood y se casaron en 318 d. C., pero tan solo medio año después su esposo falleció y sin haber tenido hijos.

En un principio Lord Tytos penso que debería volver a Roca Casterly o volverse septa, pero su otro hijo, Alyn Blackwood pidió la mano de su cuñada ya que el era también viudo de su esposa, Lady Butterwell y con ella solo tuvo dos hijas. Al final Lord Blackwood acepto este casamiento y Jaime Lannister también, casándose los cuñados en 321 d. C., ella tenia 19 años y el aproximadamente unos 30 años. El matrimonio fue apasionado, aun que algo tumultuoso llegando a discutir la pareja acaloradamente para luego reconciliarse y los dos tuvieron dos hijos.

Joanna cuido también de sus hijastras aun que su preferida fue siempre, Mirina Blackwood. También cuido de sus hijos que eran sus bienes mas preciados y les busco un buen futuro. En 360 d. C., Joanna falleció inesperadamente de tuberculosis a los 58 años de edad, mucho se rumorea si su muerte fue por tuberculosis o fue un envenenamiento por las malas relaciones que Joanna tenia con algunos miembros de la Casa Blackwood.

Alyn Blackwood- Fue uno de los hijos menores de Tytos Blackwood y considerado el mas alocado llegando a tener unas cuantas amantes durante su juventud. Su vida de casanova termino cuando fue obligado a casarse con una mujer de la casa Butterwell y con esta mujer tuvo dos hijas, pero su esposa acabaría falleciendo tras el parto de un hijo varón que murió al nacer.

Su hermano Brynden no tenia descendencia masculina y solo tenia dos hijas, pensando que si tenia hijos varones podría alcanzar el trono decidió volver a casarse. En 319 d. C., falleció su hermano menor, Robert Blackwood dejando a su esposa, Joanna Lannister viuda y sin hijos por lo que Alyn le propuso a su padre casarse con ella y de este modo tener mas descendencia para la sucesión de los Blackwood. El padre de Joanna, Jaime Lannister acepto de buen agrado este compromiso y la pareja se caso en 321 d. C.. Alyn sintió una gran pasión por su nueva esposa a la cual siempre había encontrado muy hermosa desde que la conoció y pronto ambos compartieron el lecho disfrutando ambos la compañía del otro.

El matrimonio fue beneficioso para la Casa Blackwood ya que pronto Joanna dio a luz a un hijo varón, Hoster y dos años después nació Jaime, ambos llegarían a edad adulta y tuvieron descendencia.

Alyn falleció en 348 d. C., con 60 años victima de fiebres puerperales y Joanna le sobrevivió 12 años mas hasta que ella falleció de tuberculosis.

Alyn tuvo dos hijas son su primera esposa una mujer de la casa Butterwell y que falleció dando a luz a un bebé muerto:

Mirina Blackwood, fue casada con un hombre de la Casa Bracken en una forma de dejar atrás las numerosas tensiones que habían tenido los Blackwood’s con esta familia. Falleció dando a luz un hijo muerto.

Dorna Blackwood, fue la tercera esposa de Daryn Hornwood y con el tuvo cuatro hijas.

Joanna y Alyn tuvieron dos hijos varones:

Hoster Blackwood, fue Señor de Árbol de los Cuervos al casarse con su prima, Alysane Blackwood que era la hija mayor de su padre, Brynden Blackwood. La pareja tuvo cinco hijos.

Jaime Blackwood, fue miembro de la Guardia de la Ciudad en la Capital, pero acabaría abandonando su posición y se caso con su sobrina, Myrcella Blackwood, hija de su hermano Hoster, y con ella tuvo ocho hijos.

Tygette Lannister- Es el hijo mas desconocido de Lord Jaime Lannister, pero se sabe que el se caso con una prima, Janei Lannister con la cual no tuvo hijos debido a la edad de su mujer. 

Tygett enviudo en 331 d. C., cuando Janei se contagio de viruela y falleció. En algún momento tuvo un hijo bastardo, Tywin Colina.

Tygett falleció en 344 d. C., en una caída de caballo donde se partió el cuello y la espalda con 41 años de edad.

Lord Lannister tuvo un hijo bastardo:

Tywin Colina, fue escudero de su primo Tion Lannister y se caso con otra bastarda dorniense llamada Obena Arena, pero no se sabe si tuvieron hijos.

Janei Lannister- Fue la esposa de Tygett Lannister, pero con este no pudo tener hijos y su relación era casi inexistente haciendo su vida cada uno por separado. Falleció en 331 d. C., de viruela a los 34 años de edad.

[iheartbookbran]

1/ Okay, this is going to be a bit of a long reply, but do you honestly think Jaime is comparable to Cersei? Cersei has never done a single good thing in her life, has been murdering kids since childhood, and hardly regrets a thing. But Jaime? Like, pre-AGOT, what great crimes has Jaime committed with Cersei, besides incest? It’s pretty clear from Cersei’s POV that she’s been acting autonomously on everything besides conceiving Joffrey. Jaime hasn’t been involved.

2/ Getting into ASOIAF, Bran: yes, totally unforgivable, but a classic trolley situation in which GRRM states most people would do the same. And Jaime has said he’s ashamed in-text, more on that later I presume. Arya: his absolute lowest point, and he acknowledges it as such. It comes at a time when he’s practically out of his mind following Bran, and disturbs the hell out of him later. But hold him to account for sure, this is the closest he ever gets to being like C.

3/ Baby Tully: personally, I think it’s pretty clear in-text that Jaime isn't going to do this. If you look harder at Jaime’s whole relationship with bluffing, the way bluffing is being discussed in these chapters, and Genna, an insightful character, saying Jaime is NOT like his father, it becomes obvious that this is just an ugly attempt at imitating Tywin, complete with trebuchet. It’s dark to threaten this at all, sure, but Edmure is expecting dark so Jaime serves it.

4/ Slut-shaming Cersei - I mean, his thoughts are pretty fucking unpleasant, but… he’s human? This woman has cheated on him, multiple times (and not just as a means to an end, see Taena) whilst asking him to throw away his entire life since he was 15 to remain loyal to her. But sure, let’s just call it slut-shaming lol, Jaime should obviously be proud of Cersei and support her in fucking whoever she likes?

5/ Jaime and consent: GRRM is appalling at writing consent, I totally agree (look at Asha and Qarl)… but he has outright said that the twins’ sex is consensual, whether it looks it or not. You are going to have to use death of the author here if you want to argue that it’s anything otherwise, but by all means call GRRM out for his bad portrayal of it. Tysha: Jaime already knows he was wrong, and it’s plagued him his entire life. But let's not hold him accountable for his dad's extremes.

Oh boy, ok, let’s unpack all this, shall we? Honestly if someone had told me even yesterday that I’d be reciveing Jaime anons out of all the characters, I wouldn’t believe them. Because, again, I’m no renowned Jaime expert and my investment in him extends to... he’s interesting alright, I hope he stays alive long enough so that Bran gets to fling some shit at his face at some point or another in the next two books, but that’s really it.

1. So on the “Cersei has never done a single good thing in her life, has been murdering kids since childhood, and hardly regrets a thing. But Jaime?” part of your ask. I don’t believe there’s much difference on when someone starts committing crimes and it makes it somehow less bad of you don’t begin in your childhood, Jaime could have been attempting to kill/maim children at 13 or at 33 and guess what I would still believe he’s an asshole for it. He’s made choices that involve harming others in the name of maintaining his precious affair with his sister and upholding his family’s crimes, and it doesn’t matter to me when he started on it. This is not a fucking “evilness” point accumulation and Jaime doesn’t get a pass just because Cersei got a head start.

2. “Bran: yes, totally unforgivable, but a classic trolley situation” Sorry, nonny, but did you just compared Jaime pushing Bran from a window so he could continue with his toxic relationship... to the fucking trolley problem? WTF? Jaime, a goddamn adult with critical thinking skills, chose to continue that affair for years and years while having full knowledge of what the consequences of being discovered could be. He chose to be reckless and take his chances anyways. He was between the sharp object and the hard place because he chose to put himself there, and he doesn’t get to say “well I had no other choice” now because he fucking did, for years, he had a choice, and he went ahead with the most selfish one and when the consequences of his actions almost caught up with him, he again choose to be a selfish jerk and harm an innocent bystander, a child, that had no part in any of it. And you could argue that he did it to protect his own children but lmao, Jaime really doesn’t care that much about his children, lbr; just remember how he thinks of Joffrey. Cersei never gave him the opportunity to connect with them that’s true, and he only starts to bond a little with Tommen during aFoC, but I just think that if Jaime truly, sincerely, cared that much about his children’s well-being he could’ve oh idk stopped having sex with his sister??? Instead of being in a position in which he has to ruin a little boy’s life so that he can go on his merry way, even if he feels bad about it, that will never be good enough for me. Jaime had a choice, Bran didn’t.

3. “Baby Tully: personally, I think it’s pretty clear in-text that Jaime isn't going to do this.” I mean, given Jaime’s track record of shoving children from windows so that he can cover his and his own family’s ass, I’m not so sure about that, but fine, that still doesn’t mean that threatening someone with killing their baby so that they will submit to your will any less of a jerk move. I also think you’re kind of missing the point: Jaime here wants to have his cake an eat it too. He tells himself he’s upholding his oath to Catelyn (he really isn’t) while at the same time siding with the fucking Freys and aiding them, he’s basically giving legitimacy to the Red Wedding, the one thing most people agree was a hideous unforgivable act. I just think that if I make the active choice to defend and side with criminals, then I’m not less of a criminal myself.

4. Lol, I made that slut-shaming comment with a clear tongue-in-cheek intent, I obviously know their relationship at present is far more complicated than that, and I do think Jaime has the right to feel betrayed, I just also think that Jaime has this tendency of glorifying Cersei without actually truly seeing her for what she is. At times I almost feel like he considers her the fair innocent maiden to his noble knight, and that’s a big farce to both of them. When Cersei inevitably fails to live up to his expectations he’s shocked, as if he hasn’t known her all their lives.

5. “GRRM is appalling at writing consent, I totally agree” yes of course, he’s the same guy who considers Dany/Drogo consensual, that doesn’t mean I can’t still call it out and see it as a flaw. But even more than that, as you say next: “Tysha: Jaime already knows he was wrong, and it’s plagued him his entire life. But let's not hold him accountable for his dad's extremes.” like, again Jaime recognizing something is wrong and feeling bad about it doesn’t magically absolves him of it. Of course he’s not responsible for his dad’s fuckery but he’s guilty of withholding the truth from his little brother, whom he claims to love, with the full knowledge that it was an extremely traumatic experience for him, and that it had plagued him all his life, while patting himself on the back thinking that’s the right thing to do, and Jaime rationalizes it believing that of course Tysha couldn’t possibly care for Tyrion, so she was doing it for the money, which makes her no better than a whore (because Jaime, too, can be a misogynist UwU). You know, Tyrion has a lot of bad going on for him, but my god he’s 100% right in being furious with Jaime in this situation.

Like as you said, Cersei’s big problem is her lack of empathy, but Jaime’s is his apathy. With some big exceptions like when he killed Aerys and protected Brienne, Jaime’s apathy towards what he fully well knows is wrong and yet choses not to do anything about it is my biggest qualm with him. It’s something I believe GRRM is working with his development, but so far as the story goes, he hasn’t really made any significant turn, so I’m not giving him a gold star for participation. I mean, I realize that I’m the minority here when it comes to my opinion of Jaime, and maybe, nonny, how you and other fans interpret him is how he’s meant to be interpreted, but I don’t care lol. Writing this made me remember what GRRM said...

“Sometimes he felt like showering after writing a chapter about Cersei, though, as her world-view is quite unsympathetic.”—In this article.

I honestly wonder why he had to take a shower for Cersei torturing people (who yes, is a horrible evil person, I’m not trying to defend her), but not for Tyrion strangling a woman or Jaime crippling a child for life, but oh well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[aweseeds]

Reasons why I will be forever angry at how Edmure Tully was treated at the Dragonpit & by the Starks in general.

1) He was forced to defend the Riverlands, see his people slaughtered, & lands burned when Tywin Lannister attacked in response to Catelyn Stark arresting Tyrion. Tywin's actions were indefensible, but it was Catelyn's actions that triggered the invasion.

2) Edmure brought smallfolk into the safety of Riverrun during Tywin's attacks because "my people, they were afraid" thus upholding his part of the social contract. Catelyn's response was to think her brother foolish to bring what she considered useless mouths to feed into Riverrun when they might face a siege.

3) He spent years fighting with the North & lost most of his men at the Red Wedding.

4) He was only at the Red Wedding to make up for Robb betraying his promise to marry a Frey. Edmure didn't get to choose his wife as Robb did.

5) As a result, he spent years in brutal captivity. He was kept in filthy & starving conditions, & repeatedly threatened with death, including with a knife to his throat & on a gallows.

6) He was forced to make the Riverlands army surrender & hand over Riverrun to Jaime & the Freys while grieving his sister or watch his infant son murdered.

7) He was apparently left in his cell when Arya murdered the Freys.

8) Despite enduring all of this he was basically told to shut up & sit down by Sansa at the Dragonpit.

To sum up, Edmure was a good Lord, doing the best he could, fought with the Starks & Northerners, & endured horrible things.

Let's review what the Starks' behavior was connected to Edmure:

1) Catelyn triggered the attack on the Riverlands with Tyrion's arrest without consideration of the repercussions to others. She arrested Tyrion in bad faith b/c she wanted someone to punish for what happened to Bran, not in an effort to bring the actual guilty party to justice.

The arrest was based on one person, Catelyn's childhood friend Littlefinger, saying Bran's attempted assassin welded a knife belonging to Tyrion. The fact that Tyrion once owned the knife isn't solid proof he sent the assassin. Littlefinger said the dagger was once his, so Tyrion could have also lost it in a bet to someone else or given it away or had it stolen from him. LF told her this while standing in one of his brothels, so he was not the same boy she knew & he engaged in despicable behavior. This does not suggest trustworthiness. She arrested Tyrion not b/c of solid evidence, but b/c he was the only Lannister she could get her hands on, as he was neither the queen nor the best swordsman in Westeros & a member of the Kingsguard. She arrested him at the inn b/c Tyrion was in a weak position. There were men loyal to House Tully in the room who'd do as she wanted. Instead of taking Tyrion to KL to answer the charges before the King, she took him to the Vale, a location biased in her favor because her sister had power. This is shown by Lysa's refusal to allow Tyrion to contact his brother as a champion in his trial by combat, which was Tyrion's lawful right. It was only by chance that a sellsword was present who agreed to fight for Tyrion or Tyrion would have lost simply b/c of the limitations of his disability. Catelyn acted unjustly with the arrest & trial.

2) Edmure was forced into a war. Remember how Sansa kept repeating the North must be independent because "they fought for it." Yet there was no discussion of the Riverlands' independence & they fought a war & suffered much more devastating consequences. Instead the Riverlands was made to be ruled by Bran.

3) Edmure was forced to marry to fix the Starks' messes, both Robb breaking the Frey marriage contract & the fallout of Catelyn freeing Jaime for a ludicrous idea that it would get her back Sansa & Arya. Both Robb & Catelyn put their personal desires over their obligations. Yet the remaining Starks showed no gratitude or sympathy.

4) No Stark made any attempt to free Edmure or the Riverlands. They only cared about their own castle & lands. Arya was only interested in her revenge, not helping family. Pretty awful given the Starks kept harping on the importance of family.

5) Sansa's only communication to the Tullys was for their aid to get her Winterfell, ignoring that it meant abandoning the Tully home castle & the Riverlands.

6) The Starks only cared about what they went through & ignored Edmure enduring same, if not worse. Edmure wasn't killed b/c he was highborn, but he was kept in far worse conditions as a prisoner than Sansa was. He wasn't given the best food or wore fine clothes or kept clean. He didn't have freedom of movement & Arya at least had that.

7) As a Lord Paramont, he had every right to speak at the Dragonpit. Yet Sansa insulted him by telling him to shut up all the while the Starks got to say whatever they wanted & make sure they got two crowns. Then man who had always helped the Starks & suffered for it was mocked by Starks.

Edmure Tully deserved better. He would have been a better king than Bran.

[a-libra-writes]

SFW Alphabet - Edmure Tully

Our sweet Trout boi was requested!! Tryna go more with his book description haha.

A = Affection (How affectionate are they? How do they show affection?)

Edmure gives his affection to you easily and happily. It’s half showing off what a lovely wife he has, and half he just can’t keep himself from not spoiling you with attention. Even when he has to put on his Lord’s face and tend to the court, he’ll have a hand on yours and you’ll feel him stroking your fingers while he listens to petitions. At feasts and galas, he’s always wanting you close at hand so he can kiss your cheek and hold you by the waist as the party goes on. Everyone knows the Lord of Riverrun is absolutely taken with his Lady, and sometimes it’s downright sickening how sweet you two can be.

B = Best friend (What would they be like as a best friend? How would the friendship start?)

He’s a loyal friend and vassal, but also hard-headed as can be. He likes friendly and outgoing sorts of people, but you might have to pull him out of trouble when he’s had too much to drink. Edmure doesn’t have a malicious bone in him, and he often worries after vassals, small folk and friends alike, even if he tries to hide how concerned he is. He’ll listen to your problems seriously, even if he doesn’t have the best plan to fix them.

C = Cuddles (Do they like to cuddle? How would they cuddle?)

Given how often he hugs and kisses you, it’s no surprise he loves to cuddle, but he can only do it for so long before he gets antsy and has to move. Edmure wants to relax in your arms, but sometimes he’s just too wound up. Cuddling in bed is easier because he’s already tired, and he falls asleep within minutes once you start petting his hair or snuggling up on his chest. 

D = Domestic (Do they want to settle down? How are they at cooking and cleaning?)

It’s expected of him to marry, and he always hoped he’d have a bride he got along with so he could have a large family. He’s great with kids and has always wanted several - many times in his childhood he wished for an older brother to look up to, or a younger one to play with. So, it’s no surprise he starts getting domestic thoughts just a day after your wedding.

Edmure is a lord, so he wasn’t expected to clean and cook, nor does he have an interest in either. You probably have to urge him to keep his study area tidy, at least, and not allow the children to leave their things wherever they please. 

E = Ending (If they had to break up with their partner, how would they do it?)

It’d be clumsy and he’d try to be brusque with it, but his emotion would likely make him choke up. He’d just cut it short and leave the room, then.

F = Fiance(e) (How do they feel about commitment? How quick would they want to get married?)

Edmure knew he had to do it eventually, and his father’s failing health only made that more urgent. He thinks too much with his heart to make a proper political match, and he knows it. He always thought his father would tie him down before long, but Lord Hoster never seemed satisfied with this bride or that one, and by the time he passed, the chaos of war was upon them. Edmure was too occupied with that to think about arranging anything. It was Catlyn who brought you to his attention, and she wasn’t subtle about how much Robb needed your house’s support. 

G = Gentle (How gentle are they, both physically and emotionally?)

Edmure always speaks to you and holds you kindly, but he’s never acted like you’re fragile. He knows you aren’t, and being overly gentle with his touches or words feels patronizing to him. If anything, his enthusiasm and stubbornness means sometimes he can be the opposite.

H = Hugs (Do they like hugs? How often do they do it? What are their hugs like?)

Well, he prefers kisses but he’ll be happy with any attention. Edmure especially appreciates long hugs when he’s had a difficult day, and he’ll wrap you up longing if he knows he’s going to be gone for a long time. His hugs are always long, sometimes swaying, and he doesn’t mind giving you one in front of his men. In more lighter moments he’ll whisper something stupid just to make you laugh or snort ungracefully, making others wonder what he said. 

I = I love you (How fast do they say the L-word?)

He felt it quickly, strong feelings and affection that he’d associate with “love”. Edmure wondered if it was too soon to say such a sappy thing to you, but every smile and kiss you gave him wore that down. It slipped out one evening after you both were intimate, when you were cuddled so cutely under his chin and after you made him laugh with some joke. He didn’t even notice it slipped out, he was just too content - though he wasn’t embarrassed, even as you blushed. It was the truth, so you should know. 

J = Jealousy (How jealous do they get? What do they do when they’re jealous?)

Edmure gets jealous fairly easily; you could tease him on purpose simply by tittering at young lord’s “subtle” flirtatious jokes, or pretending to shy away when handsome musicians wink at you - he especially hates the bards that love singing to the “fair Lady of Riverrun”. Your husband will be pointedly sullen when you return to him, but he comes around once you’ve given him plenty of kisses and praise … That evening, though, he’ll get you back once he figures out you were just teasing. 

K = Kisses (What are their kisses like? Where do they like to kiss you? Where do they like to be kissed?)

Your lord husband’s kisses are eager, you don’t doubt his love for a moment every time he showers you in attention. It’s very easy to distract Edmure’s train of thought by pulling him in for a long, lingering kiss before he leaves to go do something. While he loves the taste of your lips, and how cute they are, when you’re alone and intimate he likes kissing all over. Your breasts are lovely and he likes to feel your heartbeat as he kisses there, and when you’re both feeling more silly, he’ll kiss up your legs or your arms, hitting every ticklish spot until you swat at him to stop.

L = Little ones (How are they around children?)

Edmure tends to not watch his mouth when young ones are around, but he does love to bounce his son on his leg or sit patiently at the table while his daughter serves him “tea”. He doesn’t notice, but he has a knack for understanding children’s whims and tempers and easily redirecting them. Even if he has several children, Edmure tries to be attentive to all of them and teach them different things. 

M = Morning (How are mornings spent with them?)

He wakes up with an absolute mess of bedhead, no matter what, and if you aren’t out of bed already, you’ll be pulled into a lazy hug and peppered with several sleepy kisses. You might have to swat Edmure off and remind him of the duties you both have, but he’d just laugh and want to pull you back in bed (some mornings that’s interrupted by the children running in and jumping on the bed). He’s not great at waking up early; if he could sleep without interruptions, he’d gladly sleep in until the late morning.

N = Night (How are nights spent with them?)

You have to keep Edmure from staying up too late, as he naturally burns midnight oil and tends to lose track of time. Before that, he likes to help put the children to bed and tuck them in. He can never resist his daughter asking for a story or his son wanting to hear about some battle, so sometimes he’s at this task for quite a while. Once that’s done and he’s still busy, you’ll have to all but drag him to bed, and his attention will redirect to pleasing you. You’ve reminded Edmure several times that his late hours is why he hates getting up in the morning.

O = Open (When would they start revealing things about themselves? Do they say everything all at once or wait a while to reveal things slowly?)

Edmure finds it easy to talk to you, and he’s an open man by nature, so he doesn’t mind chatting about this or that, especially when you ask. You think it’s cute how fondly he speaks of his sisters, even if they were apart from him for so long, and how much he admired his father and all the things his uncle taught him. When he’s angry, he has a habit of pacing a room and ranting while you listen with some amusement. And when he has to make decisions for the Riverlands, he likes to run them by you, even if your honesty makes him bristle at times.

P = Patience (How easily angered are they?)

Even though Edmure gets irritated and bothered easily by things people say or do, even things you say or do, he isn’t the sort to stay angry for a long while. Especially if it’s you, he knows that you were right about whatever you both were arguing about, and he’ll come back and sullenly apologize after he’s calmed down. He rarely yells when he’s upset with his men - and he’d never do that to you - but sometimes he raises his voice when he’s impatient. 

Q = Quizzes (How much would they remember about you? Do they remember every little detail you mention in passing, or do they kind of forget everything?)

Edmure won’t remember specific details or things you’ve said, but he’s fairly good at remembering your tastes and how you want things taken care of in Riverrun. Sometimes he’ll confuse things, mistaking something Catlyn liked for something you don’t, but that doesn’t happen too much. If something genuinely upsets you - or gods forbid, someone offended or hurt you - he’ll remember that for a long time.

R = Remember (What is their favorite moment in your relationship?)

Edmure thought you were the most beautiful girl he’d ever seen on your wedding day, dressed in the fine silk and samite gown he later so carefully took off. He never thought he’d be happier, or so anxious, as he draped his family’s cloak around your shoulders. 

A new one ended up taking that one’s place, and it’s an afternoon he thinks of often. He went out by the riverside, where you were curled up on a blanket playing with your toddler, who finally figured out his legs and enjoyed circling around you. Your hair wasn’t tied in a neat plait, it was a mess about your shoulders, and you weren’t in a fine gown, just a lovely linen dress that was pooling around your thighs as you tried to wrangle the boy in your arms. Edmure gladly ignored whatever he had to do for the day to join you in chasing the little devil down.

S = Security (How protective are they? How would they protect you? How would they like to be protected?)

Whenever you need to leave Riverrun, he always has several men he trusts accompany you, in addition to the usual knights. Edmure really isn’t overprotective until you have to travel somewhere, but when the war broke out, he went into overdrive. You and the children would always have guards around, ones he absolutely trusted and knew were fierce in battle. He wouldn’t want you to leave Riverrun unless it was absolutely necessary, nor would he want you to be separated from the children for any reason.

T = Try (How much effort would they put into dates, anniversaries, gifts, everyday tasks?)

Edmure always puts in effort for you. He has a good eye for things you might like, and on your birthday and anniversary (and sometimes just because) he’d give you something lovely. He likes to give you plenty of attention each day, anyhow, and sometimes he’ll bring by flowers or whatever else he found that you might like, so you feel plenty beloved each day anyhow. 

U = Ugly (What would be some bad habits of theirs?)

While Edmure does have his fleeting temper, he also has his impulsive and childish jealousies. Sometimes it can get to be too much and you have to scold him for it. Other times he’s hard-headed with a decision he needs to make for Riverrun, and you have to talk him down and ask him to consider other options. 

V = Vanity (How concerned are they with their looks?)

He actually keeps up with his looks a little, or he at least wants to look nice for you, which you find quite cute. Sometimes you’ll help him shave if there’s time in the morning, or you’ll drag him into a bath. He does his best to dress the lordly part, but he prefers more practical clothing that he can train and hunt in.

W = Whole (Would they feel incomplete without you?)

If something had happened to you and you were no longer in his life, Edmure would almost become unrecognizable. He’d be depressed and prone to moods, and anyone attempting to call on him would be liable to get someone’s head bit off. The only solace he’d find would be the children, who he’d try to keep being attentive to and care for, even if it hurt to look at their faces and see you.

X = Xtra (A random headcanon for them.)

If you didn’t know how to swim, Edmure would teach you. He’d take it especially seriously if you were fearful of water, since now you’re living in a place surrounded by it. He’d hate for an accident to happen. It’d start with you knee-deep in the river, then waist, then he’d help you paddle and swim around. After several lessons you’d both be goofing off and splashing each other. Afterward he’d want to carry you to the castle, even if you insisted you weren’t that tired, and you two would just be sopping wet and dripping all over the hall. Your handmaidens would not be pleased with the mess they’d be cleaning out of your hair.

Y = Yuck (What are some things they wouldn’t like, either in general or in a partner?)

Edmure can’t handle frivolous or nervous types of people, it just puts him on edge (and reminds him of Lysa). 

Z = Zzz (What is a sleep habits of theirs?)

Edmure sleeps soundly, so no matter how much you move around or make noise, it won’t bother him. He likes to snuggle against you, even if it puts him in an awkward position and he wakes up sore. He just prefers to be touching you in some way, whether is full on cuddling or just an arm loosely wrapped around you. He sleeps the best during thunderstorms, he’ll actually go to bed early. Of course, anytime a kiddo runs in scared from a nightmare, he’ll be the first to get up, sleepily carry them back to their room and tuck them back in.

[fedonciadale]

I can’t figure out how anyone in the South would willingly accept Bran as king if the North participates in burning/sacking KL. It’s one thing if it’s a right by conquest deal, but the show has Bran being chosen. Yet, wouldn’t the North, and the Starks, be viewed with suspicion/hostility for harboring a hidden Targaryen (Jon) and siding with a Targaryen conqueror (Dany) who ruthlessly murders half (or more) of KL’s population? (Not anti Bran! I’m just trying to understand the implied endgame!)

Hi there!

You do address a big problem there : the war crimes committed by the Northerners which we actually saw on screen and which were never punished. Neither the Northerners nor the Unsullied got a trial for the Sack of King's Landing. It was just Jon who was punished for killing the rightful Queen when she was neither a Queen nor rightful, but a conqueror and tyrant....

Iirc at least in the books it is understood that the commander of the army in question is responsible. The Lannister soldiers sacked King's Landing during Robert's Rebellion but Tywin never was held accountable. It was just that the people in KL hated him afterwards. It might be one of the reasons why the Tyrells are praised for the relief of King's Landing when Stannis attacked and not the Lannisters who did more.

So, I would say it depends on who was seen to be the Commander of the troops? If it was Dany, she is dead, if it was Greyworm he has KL under his thumb, if it was Jon, he actually gets a trial, just not for the crime he was an accomplice to, but for the act of liberation that saved the remains of King's Landing... - which makes no sense.

To make some sense you have to argue that a) Bran managed to distance himself sufficiently from his cousin b) that despite Varys' letters nobody knew about RLJ and probably everybody just saw Jon as another bloody bastard or c) that the Lords just did not care for the thousands of victims.... The last one even has some backing in canon with Sam being laughed at!

Actually, I think that choosing Edmure Tully would have made more sense. He is a friend of the Smallfolk, was not involved in the whole mess and has ties to the Eyrie and to Winterfell and no ties to Targs.

If you look at real medieval royal elections Edmure would have been the likeliest candidate. Sorry, not sorry.

I have said it before, in a 'realistic' medieval setting Bran's election makes no sense. His election would make sense in a world which is powered by magic, where magic is respected, where wise wizards are seen as natural leaders or in short in a world that definitely is not Westeros...

Anyway, I hated that they all brushed over the war crimes. Jon should have killed Dany for the victims, it should have been the killing of a tyrant. And everyone involved in the crimes - including Tyrion - should have been held accountable. Or if not, it should have been addressed that the Unsullied held them all at gunpoint.

Alas! Men like Cregan Stark would have been needed, but instead we got this sorry excuse for a great council....

Thanks for the ask!

[lucy-pepperwood]

Game Of Thrones

A Song of Ice and Fire 

Original Character

Lady Tully 

The Third Daughter of Lord Hoster Tully and Lady Minisa Whent.

Born 268, Lady Tully is two years younger than her sister Lysa and 4 years younger than her elder sister Catelyn. Lady Tully is 6 years older than her brother Edmure.

Possible Names for Lady Tully

Iliza ( pronounced like Eliza)

Jocelyn

Marjorie

Annelyse ( pronounced like Annielise)

Bethany

Milynda ( pronounced Milinda )

( Names should not start with C, L, or E )

Lady Tully inherited the blonde locks of her grandmother, The Lady Rosamund Whent. 

As she grows up, Lady Tully proves to be a sweet and well-mannered child. She loves her family dearly and always thought to please them. Never disobeying her parents and doing as her elder sisters asked. Whenever her family was feeling down, or they were ill, Lady Tully would make them gifts.

Lady Tully is a gifted wood carver and floral arrangement. Lady Tully also possesses skill in singing and high harp ( the kind of harp you cannot pick up and move).

As she grows up, Lady Tully becomes very protective of her elder sister Lysa. She and her sister Catelyn worry for her because she is remarkably absent-minded. 

Once her sister Lysa becomes pregnant with Petry Bealish's child, Lady Tully defends her sister. She argues with their father to have Lysa and Petry married, as it is what Lysa wants. Even though her father becomes enraged and beats them both, Lady Tully stands strong. 

Lady Tully argues that he should take up the Arryn betrothal because it is her duty to her family. She also claims that she is also blonde, a trait of the Arryn family.

All three Tully sisters are married on the same night. Lady Catelyn to Eddard Stark, Lady Lysa to Lord Petyr Bealish, and Lady Tully to Lord Jon Arryn.

Lord Bealish is shipped off the fingures, to "fortify" and "defend" them. Once all five ( which have been granted to him) are adequately situated, Lady Lysa can come to join him.

It appears as though both Lady Catelyn and Lysa become pregnant after their wedding night, while Lady Tully does not.

Lady Tully's lack of child becomes a concern because Jon Arryn might die in the war.

After the war is one, Lady Tully is immediately summoned to Kingslanding. Lord Hoster Tully send his daughter with 1,000 guards and 500 household members. 

As the highest-ranking lady within the court, Lady Tully is in charge of the running of the Keep. She, as directed by her husband, begins trying to make the Keep as loyal as possible to the new King. 

Lady Tully has all Targeryn artifacts stored; all Targaryen loyalists dismissed and banished from the capital. She has Baratheon men come and bring their workers and symbols to fill the Keep.  

Lady Tully rounds up the Dornish servants and workers and sends them with all of Princess Elia's items back to Dorne. Her Crown, jewels, dresses, letters, and personal artifacts. This does help relations with the Crown and the Dornish.

But it is replacing the servants that is Lady Tully's greatest achievement. For every Targeyn or Dornish servant dismissed, there are a Stormlander, Valeman, or Riverland men and women ready to fill their spot. 

By the time Lyanna Stark is declared dead, and King Robert has married Cersei Lannister, Lady Tully has filled every spot. There is no room for golden-haired spies to be put in place.

One month before Cersei Lannister marries King Robert, Lady Tully falls pregnant. 

Lady Tully miscarries in the fourth month. 

Despite this, Lady Tully keeps her excellent relationship with her husband. She and Jon dine together in the evenings and often take lunches together with King Robert. 

Lady Tully and King Robert develope a good relationship. He treats her, kindly. He declares he will be the best Uncle to her children. King Robert summons his cousin, Annabeth Eastermont, to court to serve as Lady Tullys Compain and lady and waiting. 

After Queen Cersei moves into the Keep, she and Lady Tully do not become friends. They are not enemies but are simply too different to ever be able to become friends. 

Where Lady Tully is religious and pays weekly homage to the 7. Queen Cersei is disinterested in religion. Where Queen Cersei is cunning and opportunistic. Lady Tully is simple and has little ambition. They have a cordial relation, as befitting the queen and the wife of the hand of the King. 

The two women take lunch together at the end of every week. To discuss court going on, the kitchen and servants and future play dates for their children. 

Once both women do have children, they become closer, often arranging playdates together and discussion which children to summon to court to become companions to their children.

Because of Lady Tully's presence in King Roberts and Queen Cersei's relationship, they are more cordial than in canon. It goes like this.

Queen Cersei will talk of her troubles to Lady Tully, Lady Tullys tells her lord husband, and Jon Arryn lambasts King Robert, and the relationship improves. 

Lady Tully miscarries her second baby before she even realizes she is pregnant. 

She successfully carries her third child to term. 

Heir Charles Arryn is born two months before Queen Cersei gives birth to her first child. ( Born 286 )

Queen Cersei gives birth to Prince Steffon Baratheon ( who lives instead of being born still )

Lady Tully will miscarry three more times before giving birth to her next child. 

Lord Arryn has to defend his wife to the small council. 

"Before Lady Tully, I had two wives, both died childlessly. The Tully sisters have both given birth with no troubles, Even the Birth of Charles was easy on Lady Tully. It is time to admit that the problem may be with me and not my wife."

Regardless, Lady Tully goes on to give birth to a second healthy child. During this pregnancy, Lady Tully spends the entire time on bed rest. 

Lady Tully gives birth in the last month of 288 to Lord Phillip Arryn.

At this time, Lady Tully's sisters both have had multiple children. Lady Catelyn has given birth to Heir Robb Stark, Lord Hoster, and Lady Sansa. Her sister Lady Lysa has given birth to Lady Caitlyn and Emilee Bealish.

Lady Sansa and Lady Emilee are both summoned to court to act as companions. 

Also, in 288, Queen Cersei gives birth to golden-haired green-eyed twins. Prince Daemon and Princess Joanna Baratheon. 

In the year 289, Queen Cersei gives birth to blonde hair green eyed Prince Joffrey Baratheon. In 290, queen Cersei gives birth to her last set of children. Black hair blue eyed triplets. Prince Edwin and Princesses Mrycella and Jocelyn. 

In the year 288, Lady Tully suffers two miscarriages. In the first month of 289, Lady Tully successfully gives birth to Lady Alyssa Arryn. A little over 9 months later, Lady Tully gives birth to a second daughter Lady Elizabeth Arryn. Then in the year, 291 Lady Arryn gives birth to her final child Lady Ophelia Arryn.

All of Lady Tully and Lord Arryns children were born pale blonde of hair and blue of eye. 

In the Red Keep, the children all play together and have good relations with each other. Queen Cersei had summoned her nephew Martin Lannister and Willam Marbrand to the capital to act as a company for her sons. 

Lady Tully summons Lady Sansa, Lady Emilee, and Lady Melissa Blackwood to come and serve as handmaids and friends for her and Queen Cersei's daughters. Also summoned is Yara Grayjoy after the rebellion. She is as much a hostage as her brother Theon. 

Eventually, both her sons leave the Keep to Foster in the Vale. Charles foster with Lord Yonce, and Philip with Lord Redford, where he meets Domerick Bolten. Lady Tully's daughters are betrothed and go on to have children of their own. They have none of the difficulties their mother had. 

Prince Steffon never fosters, but the King takes in many. Prince Joffery, Deamon, and Edwin all foster.  

Lady Alyssa and Princess Joanna are both betrothed to the Princes of Dorne, in hopes of smoothing relations. 

Lady Elizabeth is pledged to prince Deamon, and as a gift, King Robert gives them Stormsend. 

Lady Ophelia is pledged to a house in the Vale like both her brothers, This is to soothe the bannerman and re-cement their loyalty.

Prince Steffon is betrothed to Lady Sansa Stark

Prince Deamon to Lady Elizabeth Arryn and declared Stormsend Heir

Prince Joffery to Janei Lannister and taken on as Tywins Heir

Prince Edwin is not pledged to marry as of yet, he is set to be given a lordship, but it is still in discussion. 

Lady Tully creates a ripple effect on the story, In her life, King Robert loves all his children and has a hand in raising them. Queen Ceresi gives the realm liegitment heirs. Her sister, Lysa, is where she wanted to be, although ( this creates different problems). The kingdom is stable. Under King Roberts Rule, marriage between cousins falls out of fashion. Petyr Bealish is never named Master of Coin, but the Westeros kingdom still falls into debt. There is no war of 5 kings, but the Aegon and Daenerys Targaryen still pose a threat, as do the white walkers beyond the wall.