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danwhobrowses · 13 days ago

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CR's Godly Option C: Who will go for it?

Spoilers for Campaign 3 Episode 119 below

Okay so there was a development.

After a long and painstaking dance of circling around the Predathos and Gods situation, we have reached the pivotal point. Bells Hells are fighting the God Eater, Imogen is still tethered to it, and the Gods are sending reinforcements to try and seal it again.

Sealing Predathos again is unlikely, since it required the Primordials before, and it'd only be a temporary fix. Most of Bells Hells are advocating for change within the relationship between gods and mortals as the Matron of Ravens had hinted, with all of them (yes, ALL of them, including Ashton and Dorian) wanting to prevent the gods from dying, but they also believe Predathos will get out either way. I think it's implied that defeating Predathos will force it to be suppressed within Imogen, that or it'll just discorporate and another Ruidusborn will become the vessel once it recovers its strength, but since it's intent on consuming divinity and can threaten to overwhelm her again, the third option was presented: to become mortal.

While the Matron explains that if the process is possible they will still regain their memories similar to how the Luxon and the mortality route they took in Downfall work, the gods will also need to be convinced of this outcome between death, departure, or depower. In this post I will discuss the potential of each god's reaction and willingness to enact this option C. I'm also thinking this under the impression that the gods will reincarnate, it wasn't fully clear that's the case but since this is meant to shift the relationship between gods and mortals long term I'd suspect it'd be a cycle.

We'll go alphabetically, also because we all know who begins with A.

Asmodeus, The Az-hole Lord of the Nine Hells Given that the Lying Cheating Whore Bitch that is the Lord of Terror, Lies, and the Hells has a massive shtick up his butt about mortals being lower than him, becoming mortal permanently is like a worst case scenario for Azzy M. He will be the hardest to convince, especially since as Lord of Lies he will have obscenely high charisma to resist potential persuasion rolls. The only opening is to appeal to his insecurities about his family, the deep but warped longing to be with them again, but even that is a paper thin line not even Braius can easily stay on the right side without the risk of a ripped-off face and a shattered spine. If he is convinced, however, there has to be the expectation that a betrayal or loophole is inbound.

Avandra, The Changebringer The Goddess of Change is someone you'd expect to welcome the very nature of her domain. Had FCG survived perhaps she would've been more present or be in the position the Matron is in right now for the story, since in hindsight she is similarly suited to be the vehicle of this path. Also a Goddess of Adventure, she might even be enticed with the idea of getting to partake in her own journeys, so a low amount of convincing is likely to be needed for this one, the Hells may spend more time chatting to check in on FCG with her instead.

Bahamut, The Platinum Dragon We don't get much info on the Platinum Dragon in the campaigns despite its looming presence and adjacency to the parties, its influence is central to Vassalheim, the religious capital of Tal'dorei, which has a big hand in a lot of Exandrian Politics. Given its strong sense of justice and protecting the weak, I think the Platinum Dragon would need some convincing that this is the right call - which can be difficult given the prospect of chaos that'd unfold from it - but would bend to its logic if the majority were in support, the Lawbearer and Knowing Mentor may be linchpins to encouraging them since they all have the air of sharing the same sense of pragmatism.

Bane, The Strife Emperor War and Conquest are Bane's bread and butter, and while peace can be established in the aftermath it is sadly in mortals' nature to fight and take from one another through violent means, bread and butter (metaphorically, but imagine if it were literally for a moment). For that reason I think Bane would be fine with mortality - war could perhaps be more fun if there's jeopardy involved and death this way is just a respawn. They may put on a front to be against it because it's for reasons of peace, but Bane would rather live to fight another day than never fight again.

Corellon, The Arch Heart The Arch Heart is a curious one. They wanted to leave, they told Bells Hells as much in the feywild, but the Matron is convinced that the Arch Heart simply wants change and would be open to mortality. Due to them having the chance to present their case for departure, I think the Arch Heart would take probably a medium level of convincing. As SILAHA they enjoyed the indulgences and hedonism of mortality and can do so again, but may feel a little slighted by Bells Hells not following through with their plan - they are a vain god after all. Overall I think they too would bow to the majority if it came to it, since their plan involved all of their siblings running with them.

Erathis, The Lawbearer There is a downside for the Lawbearer and Wildmother with mortality. As lovers, sacrificing their divinity will mean life apart from one another for long periods at a time, and by the time their memories are restored it can open up a massive can of worms if they found love with others as mortals. The Lawbearer would be one who'd acknowledge the logic, but resist the offer from an emotional standpoint - perhaps preferring to run or to die in each other's arms than to be apart. It'd take convincing the Wildmother to convince them, so it'd be a tall order for Bells Hells to achieve, but it can be done given how she bends more to logic - seeing as she's the one who proposed the idea of the Divine Gate.

Grummsh, The Ruiner Grummsh is a brute, a lover of blood and slaughter. As a result, the Ruiner will probably need as much convincing as Bane does; adverse to the logic of peace but secretly salivating the idea of future conflicts and being hands-on with it in a continual reincarnation cycle. Some convincing required to bypass the facade of hesitation, but not a lot.

Ioun, The Knowing Mentor Ioun has spent centuries collecting information and knowledge, in turn being a deity of prophecy and teaching, she may have already seen this coming. However, she hates secrets and reverse-engineering the forbidden knowledge that is the Ritual of Seeding may make her hesitant of the path. Some convincing is required, but The Knowing Mentor is a fair and logical god, and in logic she can be persuaded and understand that this is among the better solutions to the problem at hand. The Hells may also entice her with the hands-on approach of learning new things, possibly citing Dunamancy - through Ashton and their head maybe - since the gods treat it as foreign and alien.

Kord, The Stormlord The Stormlord is renowned for being badass and stoic, which unfortunately makes him hard to read in this situation. Unlike Bane and Grummsh, Kord doesn't lust after war and battle but prepares for it nonetheless. It may be hard to convince him though, because they could see the option as abandoning the fight - going against their tenets of strength and bravery in battle - but his awareness of Imogen can come into play in her influencing him, and if Bane and Grummsh's excitement can't be hidden it can be used as incentive to keep their warmongering at bay. He can be swayed, but not easily - it cannot be framed as giving up.

Lolth, The Spider Queen Lolth has a disdain for mortals on a similar maybe-slightly-lesser level to Asmodeus, she's possessive and proud of her power, and mortality would mean that she would have to confront the many enemies she has made - such as the Kryn - without the comfort of being out of their reach. She's also petty, and feuds with the Arch Heart and Stormlord can make it harder to convince her if they're already convinced - and vice versa. The Spider Queen strikes as someone who will agree to something so long as she benefits, curiosity can only go so far after all, she may even ask for some grovelling or a tribute/offering as a sweetener. It will be difficult, but the Opal incident is indicative that she fears Predathos, Bells Hells would need to infer that it's the most profitable option to her but also make sure it's not framed as her conceding to their request or being threatened.

Melora, The Wildmother As with the Lawbearer, the Wildmother will struggle to be convinced not because of the logic but because of the heart. Being separated from her lover is a big sacrifice she will very likely show her teeth to avoid, but in exchange she will get to return to her beloved domain properly once more. This may make the Wildmother easier to convince, or it could be harder given how she has trouble letting go of things - since she protested the idea of the Divine Gate in Downfall's epilogue, and the only thing stopping her from being a Betrayer was a reluctance to leave Exandria. It will probably fall to Orym, who has had experience being apart from people they love, to turn the scales and convince her, which will domino into convincing the Lawbearer too.

Moradin, The All-Hammer Not much is known about the All-Hammer, which is a shame since the past campaigns have had such inventive and artistic characters. That being said, I don't think the All-Hammer will need much convincing. Some convincing may be warranted since they are a God of Family and Legacy too, so they'd want to ensure that the rest of the gods are in agreement, but the All-Hammer admires creativity, ingenuity, and craft; and that is something Chetney has the edge to appeal them towards. A chance to see what more mortals can create, to unlearn and relearn various artforms for lifetimes, Chetney's own pursuit of legacy makes him the perfect one to relate to the All-Hammer, and thus there is limited convincing needed.

Pelor, The Dawnfather There have been two sides to the Dawnfather when in conflict in Campaign 3; on one side you have Ayden, the sunshine multiclassing do-gooder who clings to hope and humanity, on the other you have the Dawnfather that sent an angel to suppress Hearthdell and threatened to withhold power from Deanna for questioning him. Like the Stormlord, the Dawnfather could protest or take offence to the idea of becoming mortal permanently, as he could also see it as abandoning their sworn and solemn duties. Asmodeus and The Arch Heart paint him as chief among the 'but mah children' gods in their internal debate to stay or flee, which can be used in convincing him. But he is prideful, and stubborn, and wrathful, meaning it will require a lot of tact and careful wording to achieve, possibly moreso than it would the Stormlord.

The Raven Queen, Matron of Death As the one mulling over the method of enacting the plan, the Matron is a definitive yes who won't need convincing, she's already been convinced. Mortality is not new to her, and she has no disdain for it.

Sarenrae, The Everlight Aside from the All-Hammer and Changebringer, I think the Everlight is perhaps the one Bells Hells won't need to convince at all. The events of Downfall showed that she loves mortals, and loved mortality; the chance to live and love, to raise children, she loved it all and the moment she parted from it she missed it dearly. She might have a bit of guilt about leaving her followers like Pike, but she might also relish the idea of getting to know them on a more personal and mortal level too.

Sehanine, The Moonweaver The Moonweaver's tenets include to live untethered and free and to seize one's own destiny, which could act as a pro or con to encouraging the idea of becoming mortal. It leans more towards the pro side, since lifetimes of experiences can entice her against running away forever - and Fearne is the likely candidate to frame it that way if she is in need of convincing - but it falls to whether she has already made up her mind about which path she wants to take. If she's already chosen another option, it may be difficult to change her mind because it'll be something she doesn't want to do. If she's open to the idea there's little convincing, if not then it requires Bell's Hells to sell the idea.

Tharizdun, The Chained Oblivion Tharizdun is a strange case. The ancient primordial evil trapped in the Abyss - a visual representation of 'too much chaos' - that creates demons and aberrations with its mind to sic on Exandria isn't exactly one who was sent through the Divine Gate willingly. Mortality and reincarnation is likely something it'd leap at, freedom and the floor to corrupt and influence more directly, but also something the other gods would be greatly against them having given their efforts to seal it near the end of the Calamity. Because of this, the convincing would be for all the other gods - mainly the primes - rather than the entity itself, and thus it can be a deal breaker. As a non-Tengar god however it may be 'off the menu', and thus a compromise to keep it trapped may be achieved - it's actually a little unclear if Matt includes them and another non-Tengar god when discussing 'the gods' in this context, since they are included in the pantheon but not exactly a 'god'.

Tiamat, The Scaled Tyrant Another god eager to get out is Tiamat, Arkhan stole the Hand of Vecna for this sole purpose after all. 'Let no affront go unpunished' is a tenet that'd mean Tiamat would take little convincing to return to the Material Plane. In contrast to Lolth, paying back her grudges would be high on her agenda, as well as amassing wealth and her kin, it'd be more of a challenge to convince the Platinum Dragon of her release given how destructive chromatic dragons can be and have been in the past. So not much convincing on her side really, just opposition from opponents.

Torog, The Crawling King Torog's time as Zaharzht in Downfall was intriguing. Without it the jealous god of torture, jailers, and slavers would ironically be someone you'd expect to desire freedom from imprisonment, but Zaharzht hated being mortal and constantly harmed themselves throughout Downfall. Their monologue about peace implied that Torog may be the only god to welcome Predathos' consumption of them, which makes it difficult to say how much convincing they'd need and if they'd even acknowledge Bells Hells' offer in the first place. There's a chance they may bend to family majority, since Zaharzht had a soft - albeit warped and abusive - spot for Asha, but it's probably not something they'd like to agree to out of the three options.

Vecna, The Whispered One Centuries as a Lich leads to only 3ish decades of godhood, damn does it suck to be Vecna. The Whispered One is a god who would definitely reject the idea of returning to mortality, and someone who would probably rather take their chances and run. Much like the Chained Oblivion, being a mortal would probably be very bad for Exandria anyway, since he knows how to Lich himself and knows the Ritual of Seeding to undo the process anyway - Vassalheim has not quickly forgotten his attempt to raze them. He doesn't want mortality and the mortals won't want him, and without the sense of family that Asmodeus may have for the other gods he might be the joint-highest lost cause among the gods. However, the lack of familial ties and potentially also being off-menu might mean the gods are less enthusiastic about staying as a set with him in it, and would be willing to accept mortality without him. As a result, very difficult to convince, not a positive to do so, but there may be a willingness from other gods to just let him run.

Zehir, The Cloaked Serpent Our final god is a mystery, as obscurity is among his domain. We know more of Zehir's treacherous servant Uk'otoa (uk'otoaaaa) than we do of the god himself, but from what we do know is that they are unique in having the most enemies even among their fellow Betrayer Gods, Torog and Lolth. Their small amount of worshippers, mainly Yuan-ti and other snakefolk, are often described as ones looking to be equal to them, which may make it a tall order to convince Zehir to give their followers and enemies a better shot at killing them. There is perhaps the opening of playing to his pride, an assassin would be proud of their ability to kill, and fluffing his ego in order to 'prove' his skill among these bloodthirsty followers and enemies is a route that can be used with solid enough deception. Niche degree of convincing due to poor knowledge of him, but still possible.

#critical role #cr spoilers #c3 spoilers #c3 speculation #exandrian pantheon #predathos #bells hells #c3e119 #I'm still for the idea above the others but going into detail has gone 'yeah them getting out would be bad once they remember themselves'#ground rules probably would need to be formed within the reincarnation cycle and maybe some limitations so it's not too much chaos #the other gods may not say no to just keeping the potential off menu gods locked up or fleeing in case Predathos does have a taste for them #honestly there's more gods maybe too proud to say yes than there are a flat no - which is a benefit to convincing those who need convincing #the Tengar lot will definitely have 'together or not at all' mentality - which'll make it tougher to convince the reluctant #I mean if we got ghost FCG during negotiations I may cry but it'd also be awesome narrative and character-wise #can easily see Ioun reincarnating into the Kryn to study beacons - then one day seeing Essek and being like 'Archivist Seth is that you!?'#it is coincidental that most of the Hells have an in or common ground for convincing a potentially hard-to-convince god #If (hoping when) BH defeat Predathos will the Tengari inside it be freed or be a part of Imogen? Would she then become a mortal deity too?#I do hope we get some decent chats though; the stuff we should've done earlier when trying to get more Relics of the Red Solstice #clearly there will be more finer details for Matt to look into but that'll present more unique lore and story beats to sink into

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